Omicron anecdata?

[wathe]

Summary of the evidence for Paxlovid, for those who may not want to comb through the link in my previous post (these studies all referenced in the linked article):

• EPIC HR:  
  • randomized double blind controlled trial.
  • Population studied: Unvaccinated people with risk factors in pre-omicron era.    Pharma funded and pharma run. Published
  • Result:  89% RRR in disease specific hospitalization and death.  No sig difference in symptom severity or duration.
  • Issues: Due to methodological tweaks, almost certainly an over-estimate of benefit.  
• EPIC SR:
  • RDBCT
  • Population studied vaccinated people with risk factors, and unvaccinated people without risk factors.
  • no sig difference in hospitalization and death, no sig difference in symptom duration or severity
  • Unpublished.  Halted for futility.  Data "published" by press release.  Pharma funded, pharma run.
• Isreali observational study
  • observational study based on retrospective analysis of health records
  • Population studied: adults with risk factors for progression to severe covid
  • Outcome measure: Severe covid or death
  • Hazard Ratio 0.54, which translates to a relative risk reduction of about 46%
  • Issues: There were notable differences between the got-pax and didn't-get-pax groups at baseline, including social, average age, ethnicity.  Lots of potential confounders.  This is poor quality evidence.
• Other Isreali observational study
  • observational study based on retrospective analysis of health records, similar to above, with similar methodological weaknesses
  • Studied adults 40+
  • For adults 65+ HR 0.27 for adults disease-specific hospitalization and  HR 0.21 disease specific death
  • For adults 40-64 no significant difference
  • An attempt was made to statistically correct for sociodemographic differences between groups (and differences there were).  poor quality evidence

We really need an RCT for vaccinated older adults, and also for those with immune-compromise.  That's where the benefit, if there is one, will be most important, I think.

Bottom line:  Probably no benefit for  healthy, vaccinated  adults under age 65.   

Note on disease-specific outcomes (counting only covid-hospitalization or covid death, rather than all-cause hospitalization or death):  These are problematic!  They tend to cause an exaggeration of benefit.  Because they miss many of the potential harms of a treatment that are not covid-specific.  Paxlovid, for example, interacts with about eleventy-billion meds, many of which are used to treat conditions that makes a person high risk for a bad covid outcome in the  first place.  in studies that only look at covid-specific outcomes,  other bad outcomes from direct paxlovid drug-drug interctions will be missed.  Also, bad outcomes from other chronic disease complications that directly result from stopping meds that interact with paxlovid (like holding or changing blood thinners for a fib patients who then go on to stroke) are also missed.

Edited October 19, 2022 by wathe

[mommyoffive]

CDC recommends Novavax's Covid shots as mix-and-match booster to Pfizer or Moderna (cnbc.com)

[wathe]

I'll add that I'm very skeptical of the observational studies noted above, those based on retrospective chart reviews.

IME, as someone who works both in an acute covid clinic and prescribes paxlovid, and also in the ED where the very sick covid pts land,  the people who seek paxlovid tend, in general, as a group, to be the people who will least benefit from it, and those who are at greater risk, in general, as a group, don't tend to present to clinic seeking paxlovid .  

Socioeconomics and other barriers to care play a huge role here, even in my province where covid care is fully funded by the state - both the cost of the drug and the clinic visit are zero $ out-of-pocket.  Those who present for paxlovid are educated (they know the drug exists and that they might qualify), vaccinated, can get themselves tested, can get themselves booked into clinic by online portal, can get time off to attend, have transportation to get there, all within the 5 day window, and generally are attentive to their own health, actively  manage their chronic  health conditions etc, don't smoke, don't suffer from addictions, housing insecurity, food insecurity, I could go on forever with this list.

Those differences alone are enough to account for a lot of the "benefit" of paxlovid in observational studies, I think.

ETA: The observational studies were done in Isreal, and my observations are in Canada.  Social determinants of health may vary from place to place, but the concept is universally valid, I think, and almost certainly apply to the Isreali studies.  The baseline differences between groups in these studies speaks to that.

ETA again:  Re-reading this post I see it's a bit of a mess.  Bottom line: IME, those who seek paxlovid tend to be those who are going to have better outcomes regardless.

Edited October 19, 2022 by wathe

[wathe]

While I'm on a posting streak:

I am not aware of any evidence to support the use of paxlovid for reducing symptoms or duration.

Objectively, it doesn't seem to make symptoms better or make people get better faster.

If anything, it may on the balance increase duration of symptoms, if one accounts for post-paxlovid rebound.

ETA: I see a lot of posts on social media and even on this board about how paxlovid made people feel better, resolved symptoms etc.  The data suggest that that's likely due to chance, and that those people were going to feel better whether they took paxlovid or not.

Edited October 19, 2022 by wathe

[Corraleno]

46 minutes ago, wathe said:

Summary of the evidence for Paxlovid, for those who may not want to comb through the link in my previous post (these studies all referenced in the linked article):

• EPIC HR:  
  • randomized double blind controlled trial.
  • Population studied: Unvaccinated people with risk factors in pre-omicron era.    Pharma funded and pharma run. Published
  • Result:  89% RRR in disease specific hospitalization and death.  No sig difference in symptom severity or duration.
  • Issues: Due to methodological tweaks, almost certainly an over-estimate of benefit.  
• EPIC SR:
  • RDCT
  • Population studied vaccinated people with risk factors, and unvaccinated people without risk factors.
  • no sig difference in hospitalization and death, no sig difference in symptom duration or severity
  • Unpublished.  Halted for futility.  Data "published" by press release
• Isreali observational study
  • observational study based on retrospective analysis of health records
  • Population studied: adults with risk factors for progression to severe covid
  • Outcome measure: Severe covid or death
  • Hazard Ratio 0.54, which translates to a relative risk reduction of about 46%
  • Issues: There were notable differences between the got-pax and didn't-get-pax groups at baseline, including social, average age, ethnicity.  Lots of potential confounders.  This is poor quality evidence.
• Other Isreali observational study
  • observational study based on retrospective analysis of health records, similar to above, with similar methodological weaknesses
  • Studied adults 40+
  • For adults 65+ HR 0.27 for adults disease-specific hospitalization and  HR 0.21 disease specific death
  • For adults 40-64 no significant difference
  • An attempt was made to statistically correct for sociodemographic differences between groups (and differences there were).  poor quality evidence

We really need an RCT for vaccinated older adults, and also for those with immune-compromise.  That's where the benefit, if there is one, will be most important, I think.

Bottom line:  Probably no benefit for  healthy, vaccinated  adults under age 65.   

Note on disease-specific outcomes (counting only covid-hospitalization or covid death, rather than all-cause hospitalization of death):  These are problematic!  They tend to cause an exaggeration of benefit.  Because they miss many of the potential harms of a treatment that are not covid-specific.  Paxlovid, for example, interacts with about eleventy-billion meds, many of which are used to treat conditions that makes a person high risk for a bad covid outcome in the  first place.  in studies that only look at covid-specific outcomes,  other bad outcomes from direct paxlovid drug-drug interctions will be missed.  Also, bad outcomes from other chronic disease complications that directly result from stopping meds that interact with paxlovid (like holding or changing blood thinners for a fib patients who then go on to stroke) are also missed.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that you took the time to type all this out, it's very helpful!

[wathe]

One more:

We really, really need a RCT for vaccinated adults, especially for those aged 65+, ideally with all-cause endpoints.

and,

EPIC SR needs to be peer-reviewed and published.

But, I predict that we aren't going to get either of these from pharma.  Because it will likely show limited benefit.  Or maybe even no benefit, or even net harm. The murky, evidence-poor status quo suits pharma just fine.

IMO, Paxlovid is quite likely the new Tamiflu.  For vaccinated, immune-competent patients, anyway.  FOAMed Tamiflu debacle summary, with links at bottom to other EBM reviews. . BMJ summary

I'd also really like a RCT for immune compromised people, but I don't think that we'll get that either.

[Acadie]

47 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

CDC recommends Novavax's Covid shots as mix-and-match booster to Pfizer or Moderna (cnbc.com)

Sounds like only unboosted folks who got mRNA for their primary series can now get a Novovax booster? And if you've already had an mRNA booster you're out of luck?

If I'm reading that correctly, it's another massive gift to Pfizer from FDA/CDC.

Lots of bang for the big bucks they spend on lobbying, way ahead of any other pharmaceutical company.

I'm so sick of corporate and political interests overriding public health. That's at the core of every failure and dysfunction in our national and international response to the pandemic. 

[KSera]

42 minutes ago, wathe said:

MO, Paxlovid is quite likely the new Tamiflu.  For vaccinated, immune-competent patients, anyway.  FOAMed Tamiflu debacle summary, with links at bottom to other EBM reviews. . BMJ summary

Thank you for this! This is the conclusion I came to, but I rarely see people in healthcare back it up--the status quo still seems to be to advise people to seek Tamiflu as soon as possible if they can. I always expect our pediatrician will think me negligent if I turn down Tamiflu for the kids if they test positive for flu (maybe not though, she actually seems pretty evidence minded, so hopefully she's on top of it).

[wathe]

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

Thank you for this! This is the conclusion I came to, but I rarely see people in healthcare back it up--the status quo still seems to be to advise people to seek Tamiflu as soon as possible if they can. I always expect our pediatrician will think me negligent if I turn down Tamiflu for the kids if they test positive for flu (maybe not though, she actually seems pretty evidence minded, so hopefully she's on top of it).

Big tamiflu culture difference here in how flu is handled.  Tamiflu guidelines here have always been pretty strict, and limited to high-risk people (see Appendix A for a nice summary).  So has testing for influenze - we don't test much.  Generally based treatment decisions on clinical assessment in the context of prevalence, rather than testing.  Historically, we  haven't generally tested low-risk people at all.  Respiratory virus testing criteria have expanded this year:

• To support enhanced respiratory virus surveillance, MRVP testing will be available for symptomatic children (<18 years) seen in the Emergency Department (ED). This testing, which is generally not required for clinical purposes, will be re-evaluated in fall/winter 2021.
• MRVP testing will be available for all symptomatic hospitalized patients (ward and ICU/CCU).
• Specimens from the first four symptomatic patients in an outbreak that request respiratory virus testing will be tested by MRVP. 
• Symptomatic patients tested in institutional settings (non-outbreak) will be eligible for MRVP testing when ordered on the PHO Laboratory requisition.

The flu testing and Tamiflu for everyone culture that I see from posts on this board is very different from what I'm used to IRL

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by wathe

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 hour ago, wathe said:

While I'm on a posting streak:

I am not aware of any evidence to support the use of paxlovid for reducing symptoms or duration.

Objectively, it doesn't seem to make symptoms better or make people get better faster.

If anything, it may on the balance increase duration of symptoms, if one accounts for post-paxlovid rebound.

ETA: I see a lot of posts on social media and even on this board about how paxlovid made people feel better, resolved symptoms etc.  The data suggest that that's likely due to chance, and that those people were going to feel better whether they took paxlovid or not.

I’ve been running into patients who’s PCP basically told them there was no real benefit with Paxlovid—healthy, vaccinated people under 65.  So they call 911 and want an ambulance ride to the ED for generalized Covid symptoms(not respiratory distress or life threatning complications) where they will inevitability demand Paxlovid.

The messaging, as usual, is terrible.  The data is there and needs to be well communicated to the general public. Paxlovid does a great job for the people who will receive a benefit from it, but as you aptly pointed out, those are generally not the people who are seeking it.

[wathe]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I’ve been running into patients who’s PCP basically told them there was no real benefit with Paxlovid—healthy, vaccinated people under 65.  So they call 911 and want an ambulance ride to the ED for generalized Covid symptoms(not respiratory distress or life threatning complications) where they will inevitability demand Paxlovid.

The messaging, as usual, is terrible.  The data is there and needs to be well communicated to the general public. Paxlovid does a great job for the people who will receive a benefit from it, but as you aptly pointed out, those are generally not the people who are seeking it.

What a mess.  We don't generally prescribe paxlovid from our ED.  We'll send to clinic for that.  Clinic also does all the followup.  And clinic docs are right on top of the evidence, thankfully.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, wathe said:

The flu testing and Tamiflu for everyone culture that I see from posts on this board is very different from what I'm used to IRL

 

I tend to think this is related to government vs private healthcare.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I’ve been running into patients who’s PCP basically told them there was no real benefit with Paxlovid—healthy, vaccinated people under 65.  So they call 911 and want an ambulance ride to the ED for generalized Covid symptoms(not respiratory distress or life threatning complications) where they will inevitability demand Paxlovid.

The messaging, as usual, is terrible.  The data is there and needs to be well communicated to the general public. Paxlovid does a great job for the people who will receive a benefit from it, but as you aptly pointed out, those are generally not the people who are seeking it.

There’s this weird “I am entitled to this med I heard about “ thing going on. Along with a “I don’t trust the doctor to give me the good stuff” thing. I don’t know where it comes from. I don’t think that you can blame it on the insurance system. It’s some other cultural thing that’s happened in the last ten years. (My parent’s generation on the other hand, worshipped doctors and never questioned anything. ). There HAS to be something between those two extremes. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

There’s this weird “I am entitled to this med I heard about “ thing going on. Along with a “I don’t trust the doctor to give me the good stuff” thing. I don’t know where it comes from. I don’t think that you can blame it on the insurance system. It’s some other cultural thing that’s happened in the last ten years. (My parent’s generation on the other hand, worshipped doctors and never questioned anything. ). There HAS to be something between those two extremes. 

What’s especially weird is a lot of them are  feeling entitled to a medication they heard about for an illness they believe to fake or at least overblown. There’s a cognitive dissonance to that.  

[TCB]

@wathe thanks for your posts. I listen to the TWIV medical update each week and Dr Daniel Griffin remains pretty keen on paxlovid, so it’s interesting to see more information about it. I’ll probably get this mixed up, but his take on it not being beneficial for vaccinated younger people is that something isn’t going to lower your risks much if they are already very low anyway because of being vaccinated.

Another interesting thing he says is that the rebound that occurs is a factor of the disease, not the paxlovid. I think he mentioned a study that had similar rates of rebound in both the group that took paxlovid, and the group that didn’t.

If it does help the high risk groups I hope they can figure out a way to ensure they get it. They get a number of emails from people who are told all kinds of crazy things about it by their Drs. 
I’ve never taken tamiflu and have always been a bit skeptical of it, so have wondered if paxlovid would be similar, but don’t know a lot about it, so good to have the resources posted above.

[wathe]

6 minutes ago, TCB said:

@wathe thanks for your posts. I listen to the TWIV medical update each week and Dr Daniel Griffin remains pretty keen on paxlovid, so it’s interesting to see more information about it. I’ll probably get this mixed up, but his take on it not being beneficial for vaccinated younger people is that something isn’t going to lower your risks much if they are already very low anyway because of being vaccinated.

 

I agree with this.  When risk for severe disease is very low to start with, the potential benefit is also necessarily low, and will reach a point where it's not clinically meaningful.  But the risk of harm from the drug does not necessarily also scale down proportionately.   So you can end up in a situation where you accept real risk from a drug in exchange for very limited benefit potential.  Not a good bet, both at an individual level and on a population level for low risk people.

[wathe]

56 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

What’s especially weird is a lot of them are  feeling entitled to a medication they heard about for an illness they believe to fake or at least overblown. There’s a cognitive dissonance to that.  

And made by the same company that made the evil mRNA vaccine to boot.🙄

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Geul said:

Two of them really had Covid with fever, headache, weakness (my uncle spent 5 days in bed after the shot), and the third person experienced high blood pressure, had to call a doctor. 

?  So they already had Covid but got the shot?  The shot didn’t give them Covid. 

[Corraleno]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:40 AM, Geul said:

Two of them really had Covid with fever, headache, weakness (my uncle spent 5 days in bed after the shot), and the third person experienced high blood pressure, had to call a doctor. 

You can't get covid from the mRNA vaccines, they don't contain virus. Some people do have a strong immune response to the vaccine and feel flu-y for a few days, which is normal, but they don't actually have covid.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Corraleno
correction

[wathe]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

You can't get covid from the mRNA vaccines, they only contain fragments of virus (spike protein), not the virus itself. Some people do have a strong immune response to the vaccine and feel flu-y for a few days, which is normal, but they don't actually have covid.

Technically, not even.  The mRNA vaccine does not contain spike protein, or any actual virus fragments at all.  It contains bits of synthetic mRNA  that code for the spike protein. The vaccine gives your body's cells instructions that tell them how to make their own covid spike protein.  The vaccine has no bits of actual virus in it; the dose that gets injected into one's arm has never been anywhere near the virus or bits of broken-up virus

I agree that It is impossible to get covid from the vaccine.

(It would be possible to catch covid from another person at a vaccination centre though.)

[mommyoffive]

Covid-19 Vaccines Should be Added to Regular Immunizations, CDC Advisers Say (msn.com)

[Arcadia]

@wathe@TCB My 11 year old niece was prescribed curam suspension (https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/cmi/c/Curam.pdf) for covid. I thought antibiotics is no longer being used for covid cases?

[TexasProud]

Just to chime in on the Tamiflu.  I took it the one time I had the flu and it was AWFUL!!  I couldn't sleep and started having hallucinations. After 4 days, I quit. The cure was worse than the flu.  Horrible.  I will never take it again.

Medicines tend to do really weird things to my body which is why I am very adverse to taking any unless absolutely necessary. So we didn't do the Paxlovid. 

[wathe]

@Arcadia

You are correct.  Antibiotics are not effective  against viral infections, and have no role in covid treatment.

They are indicated to treat secondary bacterial infections - which pts with viral infections will sometimes develop.  

In general, abx are overprescribed.  It's bad for patients individually (side effects, allergic reactions, other adverse reactions, resistance) and bad on a population level (selecting for resistant organisms).  

There is, however, a lot of pressure for clinicians to prescribe abx, even when they know they shouldn't.  Patients demand them.  One very recent and memorable covid, cold and flu clinic shift, I had 10 patients in a row present with a chief complaint of " I need antibiotics".  None of them actually  did.  It's way easier and quicker to write the script than it is to explain why abx aren't indicated and also deal with the inevitable pt dissatisfaction complaints that follow. Especially in a fee-for-service remuneration system that rewards patient volume;  time spent explaining means fewer patients seen which in turn means less income. and the cycle perpetuates; the patient reasonably infers that because they got abx for a similar complaint in the past, that they should have them this time too.   I get why they're over-rx'd, I really do.  Antibiotic stewardship is hard.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by wathe

[kbutton]

US-based petition to the CDC complaining about removing the requirement for masks in healthcare settings.

https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/require-masking-in-all-healthcare-settings?source=direct_link&

Quote

Just in time for flu season, with 300-400 US residents dying from COVID-19 daily, the CDC revised its infection control guidelines regarding mask-wearing in healthcare settings, from hospitals and clinics to home care providers and nursing homes. The new guideline recommended masks only need to be worn in healthcare settings when COVID Community Transmission rates are high, based on the CDC map.

This change is dangerous, unethical and based on flawed data.

Sign our petition to: President Joe Biden, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra, and White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator Ashish Jha

It says more good stuff, but that's the gist.

[mommyoffive]

ACIP meeting: Updated info on COVID-19, vaccine safety for kids and pregnancy (substack.com)

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer says COVID-19 vaccine will cost $110-$130 per dose (msn.com)

Pfizer COVID vaccine price hike seen giving revenue boost for years (msn.com)

Edited October 21, 2022 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

A new, stealthy coronavirus variant is spreading fast, spooking scientists and Wall Street analysts, but experts say there is cause for optimism (msn.com)

[TCB]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:20 PM, Arcadia said:

@wathe@TCB My 11 year old niece was prescribed curam suspension (https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/cmi/c/Curam.pdf) for covid. I thought antibiotics is no longer being used for covid cases?

I don’t know if anything has changed with more recent variants but on TWIV it has always been said that bacterial infections are not common when you have Covid (that is secondary infections because of course Covid is viral), especially in the early stages, so antibiotics should not be routinely prescribed. That, unfortunately, does not stop some Drs from prescribing them anyway.

Edited October 22, 2022 by TCB
Clarify

[mommyoffive]

26 out of 50 states reporting.

[mommyoffive]

A better booster campaign - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

[kbutton]

Well, it's in our house. Older DS has it. He is the least exposed person in our home, except for me, and he wears an N95 all the time. The only thing we can think is that he got it after eating in an empty breakroom at work (we thought he was still eating outside--he'll be eating in his car on breaks now). I guess fomite transmission is possible if he touched something and then rubbed his eyes as he does work in a public-facing job on Saturdays (his other job has very little exposure, and they are in large spaces with high ceilings). The rest of us are asymptomatic and haven't tested positive yet. Younger DS has to eat at school every day, so we thought he'd be the first to get it.

We are all vaccinated and double boosted, but younger DS had a second original booster for being more at risk--we were holding off on the bivalent until after Halloween since he's only recently become eligible.

We all mask all the time (KN 95 or better), and we don't eat with people outside our household except outside with good ventilation (other than DS at school and once in a while if DH can't find a safe eating spot at work). If we are in close quarters, we mask outside. 

DS is doing pretty well--it's cold symptoms so far and some body aches.

 

[mommyoffive]

@kbutton I am so sorry your ds has it.  I hope it stays mild and nobody else in the house gets it. 

It is so frustrating with all that you have done to not get it.  

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

@kbutton I am so sorry your ds has it.  I hope it stays mild and nobody else in the house gets it. 

It is so frustrating with all that you have done to not get it.  

Statistically, we'll probably be fine, but I think I am most bothered that we don't have a definitive encounter to blame it on. I feel solidarity with all of the folks on here who've gone before us with caution followed by the inevitable, lol! 

DS is reluctant for people who have given him crap about wearing masks to know that he has it. I don't blame him, and I think that's a sad commentary on people right now. 

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, kbutton said:

DS is reluctant for people who have given him crap about wearing masks to know that he has it. I don't blame him, and I think that's a sad commentary on people right now. 

And the frustrating thing about that is that if they had all been wearing masks as well, it’s much, much less likely he would have gotten it. We know that two way masking is exponentially better than one way masking. 
 

I'm sorry.  I hope he’s better soon and the rest of you stay healthy. 
 

eta: eating in the empty break room is definitely a strong contender. There have been many documented incidents at this point of people catching it when they demask in an empty room that had been previously occupied by others. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by KSera

[mommyoffive]

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Statistically, we'll probably be fine, but I think I am most bothered that we don't have a definitive encounter to blame it on. I feel solidarity with all of the folks on here who've gone before us with caution followed by the inevitable, lol! 

DS is reluctant for people who have given him crap about wearing masks to know that he has it. I don't blame him, and I think that's a sad commentary on people right now. 

Ugh that sucks.   But you guys made it almost 3 years without having it, because of the masks (and other things you are doing).   I feel like it is inevitable for us to get it too.  But it does matter to get it the least times possible.  

Not knowing how you got it would bother the heck out of me too.

[catz]

20 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Statistically, we'll probably be fine, but I think I am most bothered that we don't have a definitive encounter to blame it on. I feel solidarity with all of the folks on here who've gone before us with caution followed by the inevitable, lol! 

DS is reluctant for people who have given him crap about wearing masks to know that he has it. I don't blame him, and I think that's a sad commentary on people right now. 

It does stink!  My teenager 100% got it during a masked encounter.  And the guy she got it from swears he must have gotten it at an outdoor event.  You can playing it safe and still get it with these new variants sadly!  

Getting to this point and having it for the first time is still a win in my book!  My daughter had it and neither my husband and I got it either, so it is possible to contain in your house.  

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

eta: eating in the empty break room is definitely a strong contender. There have been many documented incidents at this point of people catching it when they demask in an empty room that had been previously occupied by others. 

I agree, but far less likely than in my son's school at lunch, which is what is crazy about it. There are very few employees going into the break room this time of year (it's largely seasonal work) compared to my son's school where they eat where kids are unmasked all day long (45 kids plus teachers). 

2 hours ago, catz said:

Getting to this point and having it for the first time is still a win in my book!  My daughter had it and neither my husband and I got it either, so it is possible to contain in your house.  

Thanks!

It would be far less likely if we hadn't shared a car with the covid kid for four hours in one day before we knew he was positive. 🤪 I will continue to hold out hope--we have lots of doors and windows open, air filters running, he's eating outside or in his room, and the rest of us are masking in the common areas. We broke out the paper plates for his meals.

[catz]

Just now, kbutton said:

It would be far less likely if we hadn't shared a car with the covid kid for four hours in one day before we knew he was positive. 🤪 I will continue to hold out hope--we have lots of doors and windows open, air filters running, he's eating outside or in his room, and the rest of us are masking in the common areas. We broke out the paper plates for his meals.

I will say we did have exposure to covid kid the day she developed symptoms.  She tested negative that day.  I will also say she had a voice lesson that day and the teacher did not get covid.  And she tested positive the following morning.  I actually feel like maybe those home tests aren't too bad at detecting if you are contagious maybe!?  Crossing fingers for you!  

[Kanin]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

We all mask all the time (KN 95 or better), and we don't eat with people outside our household except outside with good ventilation (other than DS at school and once in a while if DH can't find a safe eating spot at work). If we are in close quarters, we mask outside. 

 

Do you think that your son in school could have had an asymptomatic case, and passed it on? 

[kbutton]

14 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Do you think that your son in school could have had an asymptomatic case, and passed it on? 

It's possible. He never gets sick, but then none of us really get sick often, which could simply mean that we are all less likely to have symptoms when we get a cold, etc. Even when we were doing things outside of the house on the regular pre-Covid, we rarely got colds, and even then, they would be pretty mild by most standards. 

[Lady Florida.]

I finally got the latest Moderna booster today. I kept putting it off for various scheduling reasons - sometimes mine, sometimes the pharmacy's.

Other than a terribly sore arm I had a very mild reaction to the initial vaccine and no reaction at all from the previous boosters. Still, I scheduled this on a day when I had nothing going on the rest of the day or tomorrow just in case. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I tested positive yesterday. This is round two for me; I also had COVID in Aug 2020. I may have had it a second time within the last year but I never tested positive even though I had all of the symptoms.

This had such a quick onset; it took me by surprise. I went hiking on Sat. and was fine. Hiked two new trails and enjoyed the beautiful autumn colors. I began to feel hot in the car on the way home but assumed it was from exertion. By the time I returned home I was feverish and experiencing chills. An hour later I could barely make it up the stairs and had extreme muscle aches. Sunday at noon, I tested positive. I called everyone I had close contact with last week (not a lot of people since I'm not working at the moment) to inform them of my pos test.

DH moved into the guest room immediately on Sat and we have been social distancing and wearing masks while he's home. The interesting thing is that we're fairly certain he was exposed at work and brought it home to me. He does not have symptoms and tested negative. 

I used my last home test and have been trying to find some so I can retest this week. There are no free at home rapid tests available in our area. The health dept. is recommending everyone test at the HD or a hospital. I was told that Federal funding is ending and that free tests are being phased out. This despite the warnings that COVID might see an uptick as the weather changes.

[mommyoffive]

25 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

I tested positive yesterday. This is round two for me; I also had COVID in Aug 2020. I may have had it a second time within the last year but I never tested positive even though I had all of the symptoms.

This had such a quick onset; it took me by surprise. I went hiking on Sat. and was fine. Hiked two new trails and enjoyed the beautiful autumn colors. I began to feel hot in the car on the way home but assumed it was from exertion. By the time I returned home I was feverish and experiencing chills. An hour later I could barely make it up the stairs and had extreme muscle aches. Sunday at noon, I tested positive. I called everyone I had close contact with last week (not a lot of people since I'm not working at the moment) to inform them of my pos test.

DH moved into the guest room immediately on Sat and we have been social distancing and wearing masks while he's home. The interesting thing is that we're fairly certain he was exposed at work and brought it home to me. He does not have symptoms and tested negative. 

I used my last home test and have been trying to find some so I can retest this week. There are no free at home rapid tests available in our area. The health dept. is recommending everyone test at the HD or a hospital. I was told that Federal funding is ending and that free tests are being phased out. This despite the warnings that COVID might see an uptick as the weather changes.

Ugh I am so sorry you have Covid.  I hope you feel better soon and have a mild time of it. 

Can you get tests at Walgreens/CVS through your health insurance? 

[mommyoffive]

WA: Thousands of people trapped on cruise ship for five days after Covid-19 outbreak (theaustralian.com.au)

Jess on Twitter: "We know by now that COVID affects the brain. One Infection can do serious damage, what will happen after multiple infections ? A quick 🧵 on COVID &amp; Your 🧠" / Twitter

 

"Variant soup": Why this winter’s COVID wave may be different than any previous pandemic phase | Salon.com

 

A booster is your best shot now - by Eric Topol (substack.com)

[Mom_to3]

 

[Laura Corin]

I have my booster appointment.  Not until 18 November, as more frail people get priority. The UK chose an original virus/BA1 combo. 

[mommyoffive]

COVID-19 surges linked to spike in heart attacks (medicalxpress.com)

 

New York's struggle with the new Omicron variant BQ family including BQ.1 and BQ.1.1 is a warning to the rest of the U.S. | Fortune

 

[mommyoffive]

[mommyoffive]

What is the best way to wear a mask sometimes? (substack.com)