50/50 parenting

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

When the people in my life have been in very low spots, I come to things in this vein. "Of course you don't want to live in town long term. But right now, lets just get you started and in the future, you can re-evaluate and tweak things as needed." This phrasing honors their wishes, but helps them kick the can down the road a bit as far as planning too long term. That kind of thinking leads to just freezing up and not being able to do anything in the moment. 

Yes, I did say something similar to him while thinking, 'dude seriously!'

I really am astounded at how scattered they both are.  She was suppose to be out of the apartment last weekend, but she and her new roommates didn't have enough to cover the rent so they had to wait another week.  She is making $10 an hour and not getting any assistance for child care or SNAP.  According to ds he has been paying almost everything these few months since she kicked him out.  She has been getting the advanced child tax credit of $300 per month and using that as half of the daycare bill.  He has been paying their rent (on an apartment he doesn't live in) and the other half of childcare/or her car payment which is about equal.  

We explained to him that that is all fine and good but he needs to be working toward separating their finances and getting a parenting plan together which he really can't expect to do without having a day job where he can actually care for his son during his time.  He is exhausted.  Dazed and confused about what to do next. 

One good thing is I think where she is moving to is closer to us.  So I am  hopeful she will agree to a daycare center in that area which would be doable for ds if he lives with us for a while. And doable for us to help.

And to add a wrinkle to it he has a very bad back and is probably going to need a fusion in the near future.  So a lot of jobs really exacerbate his back pain.  That is why he has liked security  because he can actually do it without hurting his back.  But those kind of jobs during the day are few it seems.

I always get the feeling ds comes to us hoping we will give him money. He was telling us if he only had $6000 he could get a certain license and guard weed trucks during transport.  And it would only take 6 months time.  I said flat out, 'you don't have 6 months.  Your window for having equal time for your son is closing.' (and I thought but did not voice, not to mention where is he going to get $6K?!!!!)  I told dh this is the type of adult child that is not helped by throwing money at him.  And we don't have it anyway.  What we do have is free shelter for him and the baby and support if he lives near enough to us.  

[fairfarmhand]

Has he looked at security in some of the government buildings? Like courthouse and utilities and such? My dh works for water dept and they have 24/7 security officers.

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Has he looked at security in some of the government buildings? Like courthouse and utilities and such? My dh works for water dept and they have 24/7 security officers.

I don't know.  I just don't even like discussing these type jobs with him because he seems so obsessed with these jobs that need guns.  When he was talking about the weed transport job he was saying he would need an AR something ( I am ignorant on guns but it sounded like an assault rifle of some sort)  I was like, 'um, you really want to put yourself in a job like that when you have a year old baby.'' 

[fairfarmhand]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don't know.  I just don't even like discussing these type jobs with him because he seems so obsessed with these jobs that need guns.  When he was talking about the weed transport job he was saying he would need an AR something ( I am ignorant on guns but it sounded like an assault rifle of some sort)  I was like, 'um, you really want to put yourself in a job like that when you have a year old baby.'' 

That's weird.

But if he (oddly) wants to be armed from day to day, would he want to train for the police force? Also, all the security guards at government agencies that I've ever seen are armed. 

I can see why it would be odd to try to talk about that with him if that's a weird obsession.

[melmichigan]

11 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

That's weird.

But if he (oddly) wants to be armed from day to day, would he want to train for the police force? Also, all the security guards at government agencies that I've ever seen are armed. 

I can see why it would be odd to try to talk about that with him if that's a weird obsession.

If he needs a fusion for a bad back it's doubtful this would be an option, sadly.

 

[ktgrok]

Just now, melmichigan said:

If he needs a fusion for a bad back it's doubtful this would be an option, sadly.

 

Plus newbies in many places have to work the weird shifts, so wouldn't help with the day job thing in the short term. 

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

That's weird.

But if he (oddly) wants to be armed from day to day, would he want to train for the police force? Also, all the security guards at government agencies that I've ever seen are armed. 

I can see why it would be odd to try to talk about that with him if that's a weird obsession.

 

4 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

If he needs a fusion for a bad back it's doubtful this would be an option, sadly.

 

 

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Plus newbies in many places have to work the weird shifts, so wouldn't help with the day job thing in the short term. 

He had definitely been interested in police work, but there is no way he could qualify with his bad back and he knows that.  Plus, again, caring for his son needs to take priority.

[Scarlett]

And he smokes.  His dad is so upset about this because smoking is not only disgusting and expensive but it causes bones to  not heal properly.  So his spine is worsened by his smoking.  And if he has a fusion he will take longer to heal if he is smoking.  

During their brief marriage DIL really really wanted dss to stop smoking.  He claims by the time she kicked him out he was almost quit (whatever that means).  And now guess what?  She is smoking.  Vaping I think, but whatever.  

[TechWife]

13 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think custody and child support is changing as we speak.  There is a huge movement to go 50/50 and no cs.  
 

And again, judges are happy if parents work out the details.  Maybe that is only an OK thing? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, judges are often happy when parents work out the details when the details are fair. It is not fair to the child to go without support. The child support is for the child, not the ex. The ex is supposed to spend it on behalf of the child. If the ex can make it without spending it regularly, then he/she can stick it into an account and put it towards a car or a special summer camp or an expensive instrument when the child needs one.  Or - perhaps save it for a "rainy day" because the economy can be unpredictable.

The point is that the child is the consideration in child support, not the parent.

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Yes, judges are often happy when parents work out the details when the details are fair. It is not fair to the child to go without support. The child support is for the child, not the ex. The ex is supposed to spend it on behalf of the child. If the ex can make it without spending it regularly, then he/she can stick it into an account and put it towards a car or a special summer camp or an expensive instrument when the child needs one.  Or - perhaps save it for a "rainy day" because the economy can be unpredictable.

The point is that the child is the consideration in child support, not the parent.

As I said before the money isn’t going to disappear. It will still exist and get used to care for the baby., They both have very little income and can barely support themselves.  And there is a lot of red tape regarding cs. So if they agree on this arrangement no one else needs to worry about it. 

[TechWife]

54 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

As I said before the money isn’t going to disappear. It will still exist and get used to care for the baby., They both have very little income and can barely support themselves.  And there is a lot of red tape regarding cs. So if they agree on this arrangement no one else needs to worry about it. 

I guess what I’m trying to see if you understand that their preferences are the only thing that comes into play. The judges opinion is much more important. Even if they go to court with a $0 child support agreement, a judge can reject that agreement and order that child support be paid. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I guess what I’m trying to see if you understand that their preferences are the only thing that comes into play. The judges opinion is much more important. Even if they go to court with a $0 child support agreement, a judge can reject that agreement and order that child support be paid. 

I mean, obviously. But in my experience here in this state and reading on line OK forums it is not likely the judge will reject their perfectly reasonable parenting and support plan.  

[kiwik]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:44 PM, Scarlett said:

And where would they stay when they weren’t with the baby?  I just can’t see that working.  

That is what the flat is for.  The parent on duty stays in wherever they were living before.  The parent off duty stays in a one bedroom flat or studio apartment (the cheapest they can cope with).  The child sleeps in their own bed every night.

[kiwik]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:49 PM, Scarlett said:

So just out of curiosity……if you are required to report raises to the cs office does that office have have authority to raise cs without a court order?

Here it is usually deducted by the employer so goes up when the person gets a payrise.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, kiwik said:

That is what the flat is for.  The parent on duty stays in wherever they were living before.  The parent off duty stays in a one bedroom flat or studio apartment (the cheapest they can cope with).  The child sleeps in their own bed every night.

Not many people could afford such an arrangement.  And it sounds terrible to me.  I would feel like my child was excluded from my real home.  But I guess whatever works for people. 

[JustEm]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Not many people could afford such an arrangement.  And it sounds terrible to me.  I would feel like my child was excluded from my real home.  But I guess whatever works for people. 

I would feel this way as well.  It might be one thing for an older child who is already emotionally fragile and that arrangement is the healthiest thing for them.  But I think in most situations it is overkill.  Single parenting is hard enough both emotionally and financially.  Adding the expense of a third home for the child seems to be overkill in most situations. 

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Not many people could afford such an arrangement.  And it sounds terrible to me.  I would feel like my child was excluded from my real home.  But I guess whatever works for people. 

I agree that the child needs to not feel excluded from the parent’s ‘real home’.  When my brother got divorced his son was three and it was an awful time because my brother wasn’t stable. So for a year, while the divorce was being litigated, he and his ex swapped time in the family home so my nephew could have some stability in an otherwise chaotic time of life. Every 4 days they swapped- brother would pick the kid up from daycare and go to the family house for his time, and when it was over he dropped the kid off at daycare and it was his ex’s turn. They never had to see each other, which is often a tough transition. 
But it wouldn’t have worked long term, for sure.  I can’t really see how it could- who decides when to replace furniture or who does the grass cutting, etc.?  I felt like if they could share a home and share a kid, why would they get divorced???  It in reality it was his ex’s house and she made the rules and such, and he was just allowed to come visit his son for four day stretches. That wouldn’t have worked long term!

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I agree that the child needs to not feel excluded from the parent’s ‘real home’.  When my brother got divorced his son was three and it was an awful time because my brother wasn’t stable. So for a year, while the divorce was being litigated, he and his ex swapped time in the family home so my nephew could have some stability in an otherwise chaotic time of life. Every 4 days they swapped- brother would pick the kid up from daycare and go to the family house for his time, and when it was over he dropped the kid off at daycare and it was his ex’s turn. They never had to see each other, which is often a tough transition. 
But it wouldn’t have worked long term, for sure.  I can’t really see how it could- who decides when to replace furniture or who does the grass cutting, etc.?  I felt like if they could share a home and share a kid, why would they get divorced???  It in reality it was his ex’s house and she made the rules and such, and he was just allowed to come visit his son for four day stretches. That wouldn’t have worked long term!

Exactly my feelings on so many of these parenting plans where everything is portrayed as rainbows and unicorns.  There is a woman on TikTok who lives in an RV next to the marital home which the XH occupies and the kids go back and forth.  She talks about how wonderful of a man her XH is....and I'm just like 'what?'

[Lecka]

Personally I would have hated how many more chances my dad would have had to be a real jerk to my mom with a plan like that.

I can see it working for some people, but I don’t think it’s for the majority.

 

[Spryte]

Weirdly, my parents did the nesting thing when I was a junior in HS. I don’t recall that they called it nesting, but same thing. I lived in one home, and they took turns living in our former family home until it sold. I hated it, found it disconcerting and unnerving. Maybe it works better for little kids, but the moment our family home sold—I articulated a preference for one parent only in the home where I lived, and visits to the other.

I’m not sure it’s the best option for kids, having seen what it looked like in my own family. (Shudder)

[Selkie]

I know a couple that did that when they divorced. They bought a house where the kids lived full-time and the parents took turns living there throughout the week. The adults were happy with the arrangement and said it worked well. I have no idea what the kids thought of it.

[Lecka]

If the parents doing it got along well I think that would make a huge difference!  
 

I think siblings would make a big difference, too.

 

I definitely think it works for some people.  
 

My father is too much of a jerk — that would have been the problem.

 

My mon got guilted into some things “for the good of the children” that were just — not things that were ever going to go well because my father was too much of a jerk.

 

I don’t think it helps anything for kids to see their parent treated badly, if that is going to be the dynamic anyways.  

[Scarlett]

So dss25 went to work at midnight Wednesday evening.  He worked until 8:00 a.m.  Then he went back at 4:00 the same day (Thursday) and worked a 16 hour shift.  This is what I mean by this is not a sustainable schedule for a single dad trying to have 50/50 time with his son.

I mentioned Indeed to him.  He responded back via text that he had tried Indeed in the past but only saw spam jobs.  Then I mentioned a employment corp in the city that seems to have a lot of jobs in the $15 per hour range and he said, 'yeah, I worked for them.'  Well, I am assuming he means he went through them when he and his wife had a job working in a warehouse in the shipping department last year.  Dss25 fell in his parking lot at their apartment they had just moved in and couldn't work and then before he got well enough to go back she was laid off. After that he started doing the security gigs and within a few months she kicked him out.  

So I hope he will actually apply for  one of the many jobs that appears to be out there.  There is only so much we can do though.

[Slache]

I've had the same issue with Indeed and similar sites. I have had good luck with temp agencies though.

[kiwik]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:03 AM, Scarlett said:

Not many people could afford such an arrangement.  And it sounds terrible to me.  I would feel like my child was excluded from my real home.  But I guess whatever works for people. 

 

they have to both live somewhere anyway.  How would renting one place with two bedrooms and one studio flat be more expensive than the two two bedroom places you would need to share care? You wouldn't have a real home as such.  The point is it is easier for the child.  The parents needs or wants don't really count in such a situation.  That said most of the people I have known who made it work lived within a couple of blocks of each other with the child staying with one parent and visiting back and forth freely.

Edited November 6, 2021 by kiwik

[JustEm]

2 hours ago, kiwik said:

 

they have to both live somewhere anyway.  How would renting one place with two bedrooms and one studio flat be more expensive than the two two bedroom places you would need to share care? You wouldn't have a real home as such.  The point is it is easier for the child.  The parents needs or wants don't really count in such a situation.  That said most of the people I have known who made it work lived within a couple of blocks of each other with the child staying with one parent and visiting back and forth freely.

So you are saying the parents shared 2 homes? Every situation I've ever seen this played out was the parents stayed at the shared kid's home but on their off week each parent had a separate home of their own.

 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, kiwik said:

 

they have to both live somewhere anyway.  How would renting one place with two bedrooms and one studio flat be more expensive than the two two bedroom places you would need to share care? You wouldn't have a real home as such.  The point is it is easier for the child.  The parents needs or wants don't really count in such a situation.  That said most of the people I have known who made it work lived within a couple of blocks of each other with the child staying with one parent and visiting back and forth freely.

It sounds like you live in a very different area…….that sort of set up doesn’t even exist here. 
 

As far as putting the kids first and the parents needs not mattering…..clearly if there is a divorce at least one of those parents has not put the kids needs first so it would seem unlikely that in the aftermath that would change significantly. And that is assuming the nesting model vs kids going between houses  really is in the kids best interest.  I am not convinced. 

35 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

So you are saying the parents shared 2 homes? Every situation I've ever seen this played out was the parents stayed at the shared kid's home but on their off week each parent had a separate home of their own.

 

The thought of me sleeping in the same house of my xh who the week before was doing who knows what in that same house…. Shudder.  

[Scarlett]

Some divorces are just much more contentious than others.  But regardless everyone’s needs have to be considered even while the child’s needs have priority.  There is also a parental maturity factor in all this.  The couple I know who had a baby out of wedlock when they were 35 have handled co parenting much better than say several young 20s parents I know.

The mid 30s couple….who are now mid 40s….I have never seen anything like and I am not sure most people could pull it off.  They were never married and he has zero intention of ever marrying her even though I think she wanted that at least initially.  He bought a large piece of land and built her a house on it right next to a cabin he built for himself.  His long term plan is to build  himself a larger forever home further away but on the same piece of property. And I suspect his plan includes hoping their child will end up in the cabin.  
 

Their week to week is basically 3 overnights at one house and 4 at the other…but his mother lives on connecting land and so there is a lot of flexibility  because both parents own businesses and sometimes the schedule has to shift…

It has NOT been a problem free arrangement.  I won’t elaborate more than that.

He owns it all.  Neither have romantic partners to their homes.   Ever.  In fact I know that he has sworn off any dating for now….and the child is about half grown.  Not sure about her dating but I know she would never bring another man into the house.  
 

I mostly think people should have to have a license to take a baby home from the hospital.  Only half joking. 

[hippymamato3]

22 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So dss25 went to work at midnight Wednesday evening.  He worked until 8:00 a.m.  Then he went back at 4:00 the same day (Thursday) and worked a 16 hour shift.  This is what I mean by this is not a sustainable schedule for a single dad trying to have 50/50 time with his son.

 

Does he actually WANT 50/50 or is that what his ex wants?

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Does he actually WANT 50/50 or is that what his ex wants?

We flat out asked him what he wants.  He said he does want to have 50/50 custody.  I can see though that he has had little experience in taking care of his son alone.  He knows how to do everything…..but he is also exhausted.  For instance at 8 I asked him what time the baby goes to bed and he said,  ‘about now’…….and I said, ‘ oh well let’s get him a bath’.  With a weary look he said, ‘ he isn’t that dirty’….and I said, ‘ he will sleep better if he is clean—-here let me give him a bath while you rest a minute’.   
 

He also told us that he thinks he might end up with more than 50/50.  She has been posting things on FB about how exhausting it is to be a mother.  Someone has to take care of this baby.  We want to help him get on his feet if  we can and that will depend somewhat on his own choices.  

[Scarlett]

20 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Does he actually WANT 50/50 or is that what his ex wants?

Also, I was pointing out here that he HAS to make a change.  Even if he did not want 50/50 and even if he wanted to keep that job…….he could only see his son every 8-10 days and only over night if  he brings him to our house.   And that involved waking up at 8 am after getting off at midnight and driving an hour to pick baby up from day care and another hour to reach our house.  

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

We flat out asked him what he wants.  He said he does want to have 50/50 custody.  I can see though that he has had little experience in taking care of his son alone.  He knows how to do everything…..but he is also exhausted.  For instance at 8 I asked him what time the baby goes to bed and he said,  ‘about now’…….and I said, ‘ oh well let’s get him a bath’.  With a weary look he said, ‘ he isn’t that dirty’….and I said, ‘ he will sleep better if he is clean—-here let me give him a bath while you rest a minute’.   
 

He also told us that he thinks he might end up with more than 50/50.  She has been posting things on FB about how exhausting it is to be a mother.  Someone has to take care of this baby.  We want to help him get on his feet if  we can and that will depend somewhat on his own choices.  

Remember that when you help someone else to parent their baby, their preferences are the ones that matter. It's nice that he let you put the baby in an unnecessary bath after he already said that it was 'about' baby's bedtime... But my true and real hope is that you-as-grandma and him-as-dad get along really well for a really long time as you sometimes share caregiving for this child.

For that reason I want to say these disclaimers: *yes* once in a while this is no big deal, and *yes* I know it only happened once, and *yes* I know that doing something once doesn't mean that you will always be doing stuff this way.

And I also want to say that it will all work out much better if you flex your ideas 99% of the time. If he says the baby doesn't need a bath: just don't reply. If dad says it doesn't need to happen, forget your ideas about how babies used to be bathed daily as a sleep aid, and go with his ideas of babies being bathed when they are dirty and need to be cleaned. There are thousands of ways to raise a baby, and this baby deserves to be raised by his own dad in his own way. Dad is already down to 50% influence. He doesn't need to be further undermined by compromising with you.

If you are caring for the baby alone, of course use your best judgement. But if dad is there, just do whatever he says.

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Remember that when you help someone else to parent their baby, their preferences are the ones that matter. It's nice that he let you put the baby in an unnecessary bath after he already said that it was 'about' baby's bedtime... But my true and real hope is that you-as-grandma and him-as-dad get along really well for a really long time as you sometimes share caregiving for this child.

For that reason I want to say these disclaimers: *yes* once in a while this is no big deal, and *yes* I know it only happened once, and *yes* I know that doing something once doesn't mean that you will always be doing stuff this way.

And I also want to say that it will all work out much better if you flex your ideas 99% of the time. If he says the baby doesn't need a bath: just don't reply. If dad says it doesn't need to happen, forget your ideas about how babies used to be bathed daily as a sleep aid, and go with his ideas of babies being bathed when they are dirty and need to be cleaned. There are thousands of ways to raise a baby, and this baby deserves to be raised by his own dad in his own way. Dad is already down to 50% influence. He doesn't need to be further undermined by compromising with you.

If you are caring for the baby alone, of course use your best judgement. But if dad is there, just do whatever he says.

@bolt.please just stop telling me how every thought I have or action I do is  wrong.  This young man’s life is in a complete downward spiral and you want  to focus on me giving the baby a bath after dss wearily said, ‘he isn’t that dirty’.  

[bolt.]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

@bolt.please just stop telling me how every thought I have or action I do is  wrong.  This young man’s life is in a complete downward spiral and you want  to focus on me giving the baby a bath after dss wearily said, ‘he isn’t that dirty’.  

Sorry. I thought the disclaimers would be enough. I genuinely care about your relationship with your son, and I was hoping that pointing out a possible minor misstep would help you two towards a solid cooperative future together. I didn't intend to hurt or criticize you.

Next time I'll respect your wishes and avoid mentioning stuff like this.

I think you are doing thousands of things right -- pretty much all day every day. I admire you a lot! You are really stepping up to the plate in a complex and nuanced situation. I want you to succeed wildly in every possible way.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, bolt. said:

Sorry. I thought the disclaimers would be enough. I genuinely care about your relationship with your son, and I was hoping that pointing out a possible minor misstep would help you two towards a solid cooperative future together. I didn't intend to hurt or criticize you.

Next time I'll respect your wishes and avoid mentioning stuff like this.

I think you are doing thousands of things right -- pretty much all day every day. I admire you a lot! You are really stepping up to the plate in a complex and nuanced situation. I want you to succeed wildly in every possible way.

Thank you.  In which case I will say by way of further explanation dss did not indicate he was AGAINST a bath.  And he was not making any moves to put baby to bed.  It isn’t like I snatched him from the crib to go bathe him.  Also, while I know it would not have been harmful for the baby to go with out a bath that night I can assure you he was dirty. 

[Catwoman]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:55 AM, Scarlett said:

Exactly my feelings on so many of these parenting plans where everything is portrayed as rainbows and unicorns.  There is a woman on TikTok who lives in an RV next to the marital home which the XH occupies and the kids go back and forth.  She talks about how wonderful of a man her XH is....and I'm just like 'what?'

If she still thinks he's wonderful while he's living in the house and she's stuck in the RV out in the driveway, it makes me stop and wonder what the heck she must have done that led to their divorce -- because I would have to feel pretty darned guilty about something to keep talking about how my ex was such a great guy while I was posting on TikTok from the camper.

But maybe that's just me...

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

If she still thinks he's wonderful while he's living in the house and she's stuck in the RV out in the driveway, it makes me stop and wonder what the heck she must have done that led to their divorce -- because I would have to feel pretty darned guilty about something to keep talking about how my ex was such a great guy while I was posting on TikTok from the camper.

But maybe that's just me...

I know right?  I can’t stomach reading her whole story but she basically wasn’t happy being married to him.  So she has boyfriends in the RV and they co parent that way.  

[JustEm]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

The thought of me sleeping in the same house of my xh who the week before was doing who knows what in that same house…. Shudder.  

I feel the same exact way as you. If money were no factor and we could comfortably afford 3 homes, I'd probably do it for the short term as the kids adjusted mentally and the shared house got ready for sale. But even with money not being an issue I wouldn't  share a second home with an ex. I'd want privacy and my own sanctuary from them

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I feel the same exact way as you. If money were no factor and we could comfortably afford 3 homes, I'd probably do it for the short term as the kids adjusted mentally and the shared house got ready for sale. But even with money not being an issue I wouldn't  share a second home with an ex. I'd want privacy and my own sanctuary from them

I agree!

We already have 3 houses and I still can't figure out how that arrangement would work. It seems like both parents would be dragging all kinds of stuff back and forth with them all the time, and while the kids would technically have only one home, the parents would basically have no real place to call home because of all of the moving from one house to another. 

I realize that's what kids go through when they have to keep moving back and forth between both parents' homes, but it somehow seems more awkward when the parents are the ones doing it. There are so many additional considerations -- aside from big things like money-related stuff and who does (or pays for) the housecleaning and yard maintenance, there are also all of the everyday things like buying food and arranging the furniture and deciding which drawer to use for the silverware and who gets the bigger closet, and are they both really ok with sleeping in the same master bedroom when the other person isn't there (and if not, who gets the master bedroom and who gets a smaller one?) -- and heaven forbid one ex wants to redecorate and the other one doesn't. Also, if the parents start dating other people, the situation becomes even more complicated and weird.

In the end, that kind of arrangement seems a lot harder to navigate than the actual marriage ever was!

[Lecka]

I think there is a category of people where they are both committed parents, but start living as room-mates and/or only actually interact wrt the children, and yet one or both are profoundly unhappy and want to go through with a divorce if they think it can have a minimal impact on the kids.

I think that exists!

I think that is a good situation if parents do choose to do nesting.

Unfortunately my dad was a bully so it would have been a night mare, and my mom always felt pressure to “do what is best for the children” and “whatever you do don’t sabotage the relationship with the father” so he was free to be a bad actor while she would clean up his messes so his character wouldn’t be revealed to the children.

I think it would have been so bad if we had had that. 
 

I would love for my dad to be a totally different human being and yet he is not.

 

But I do think there are situations where it is desirable and can be a positive choice for the people involved.  

 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I agree!

We already have 3 houses and I still can't figure out how that arrangement would work. It seems like both parents would be dragging all kinds of stuff back and forth with them all the time, and while the kids would technically have only one home, the parents would basically have no real place to call home because of all of the moving from one house to another. 

I realize that's what kids go through when they have to keep moving back and forth between both parents' homes, but it somehow seems more awkward when the parents are the ones doing it. There are so many additional considerations -- aside from big things like money-related stuff and who does (or pays for) the housecleaning and yard maintenance, there are also all of the everyday things like buying food and arranging the furniture and deciding which drawer to use for the silverware and who gets the bigger closet, and are they both really ok with sleeping in the same master bedroom when the other person isn't there (and if not, who gets the master bedroom and who gets a smaller one?) -- and heaven forbid one ex wants to redecorate and the other one doesn't. Also, if the parents start dating other people, the situation becomes even more complicated and weird.

In the end, that kind of arrangement seems a lot harder to navigate than the actual marriage ever was!

As a side note Cat does that not stress you out having three homes to care for?

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

As a side note Cat does that not stress you out having three homes to care for?

It never used to bother me because we'd always hired people to take care of the houses we weren't using, but with all of the Covid stuff, I have to admit that it has become a real nuisance.

We are seriously thinking about selling at least one of the houses, or maybe even selling all three and then buying one totally different main house somewhere in the US and one vacation house in Europe (probably Italy, because my ds might like to try living there for a year or so, just to see how he likes living in Europe, and my dh and I think it might be fun for us, too.) 

But Covid still has us at a standstill, because my dh is so high risk, so who knows when we will actually do anything at all! 

[Scarlett]

59 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It never used to bother me because we'd always hired people to take care of the houses we weren't using, but with all of the Covid stuff, I have to admit that it has become a real nuisance.

We are seriously thinking about selling at least one of the houses, or maybe even selling all three and then buying one totally different main house somewhere in the US and one vacation house in Europe (probably Italy, because my ds might like to try living there for a year or so, just to see how he likes living in Europe, and my dh and I think it might be fun for us, too.) 

But Covid still has us at a standstill, because my dh is so high risk, so who knows when we will actually do anything at all! 

Thank you.  My best friend has two homes…. But they are only 1 and 1/2 hours apart. She hires help to clean both, but the lake house is more challenging depending  on who is being entertained there.  For instance if her sisters come for the weekend, they bring their own sheets and put her sheets back on  before they leave.  Other guest she would not expect that of.  

[Catwoman]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Thank you.  My best friend has two homes…. But they are only 1 and 1/2 hours apart. She hires help to clean both, but the lake house is more challenging depending  on who is being entertained there.  For instance if her sisters come for the weekend, they bring their own sheets and put her sheets back on  before they leave.  Other guest she would not expect that of.  

We are the only ones who use our houses, so at least we don’t have to worry about dealing with guests. I have never been a fan of overnight guests, anyway. 🙂 

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

We are the only ones who use our houses, so at least we don’t have to worry about dealing with guests. I have never been a fan of overnight guests, anyway. 🙂 

That is funny.  My friend always says they built the lake house for family and friends.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by Scarlett

[kiwik]

10 hours ago, hjffkj said:

So you are saying the parents shared 2 homes? Every situation I've ever seen this played out was the parents stayed at the shared kid's home but on their off week each parent had a separate home of their own.

 

Yes the parents alternate living with the kid.  The child stays n the same house with their own stuff and attends the same daycare/school/activities all the time.  They therefore don't feel like they are the ball in a ball game. It is also way more affordable.  If people got married then they should be able to share a house.  Though if affordable of course a separate bedroom and bed for each parent in each house would be much easier.  But I am not a great supported of 50/50 care.

Edited November 7, 2021 by kiwik

[Catwoman]

45 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is funny.  My friend always says they built the lake house for family and friends.  

That's very nice of her! I don't mind having guests over for the day and evening, but overnight guests are just too much. I need my privacy at night -- and first thing in the morning, the last thing I want to do is start entertaining guests. I know my limits!

We always spent our summers at our beach house when I was a kid, and family members had their own houses, so we didn't have overnight guests then, either, except if I invited one or two of my friends from school or from the neighborhood to visit. But that was more of a kids' sleepover, not adults. 

[Scarlett]

So I was on a FB group for fathers support.  Wow.  Completely absolutely unbelievable.  They can’t even listen. 

[Murphy101]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So I was on a FB group for fathers support.  Wow.  Completely absolutely unbelievable.  They can’t even listen. 

Um. Why would you think a group for fathers would be welcoming to grandmothers?

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Um. Why would you think a group for fathers would be welcoming to grandmothers?

It isn’t just for fathers.  It is also for those supporting fathers.  And I have lived through a custody nightmare as a step mother so yeah I would think they might want to hear a few things that I have learned.