High School Transcript & Algebra 1 in 8th grade

[TamaraG]

We just had our portfolio evaluation (high regulation state) and I asked my evaluator about the Algebra 1 in 8th grade (my oldest just finished honors algebra 1). It is her opinion that I should not even include the Algebra 1 on my sons transcripts since it was completed prior to 9th grade as per our state law, it technically does not count as completed in grades 9-12. She said I CAN include it if I so choose, but it isn't necessary as it should be obvious he took the course if he is doing higher level mathematics. In addition, she did confirm that if I do include it on my transcript, since it was an honors course I should go ahead and add 4% as this is how my local school district counts honors classes. (I know I don't have to follow PS standards, but in Pennsylvania I AM choosing to do at least the equivalent as if our evaluator signs our transcripts/diploma it is equal to that of public schools in the eyes of Pennsylvania law). So, I guess my question is - would you add Algebra 1 anyways? I know we will still have to do at least three more math classes for high school per our state law. If you would add it, would you do a year or a subject format transcript. Also, would you go ahead and add the 4% to what we'd previously calculated his grade? His current, non weighted grade is 87.157, so adding 4% would make it a 91.157, which moves it from a B to an A (10 point scale). Thanks for any input!

[stripe]

That's strange. The schools in my current state and where I grew up do list middle school classes as high school classes, usually math and additional languages. I've never heard of adding 4%.

[EKS]

I would only add Algebra 1 to the transcript if his grade is an A (or will otherwise bring up his GPA, which you won't know until you're applying to colleges).

The 4% thing is weird.

[ScoutTN]

Here any high school courses in math, science, or language takrn in 8th grade count for high school credit. 

[wendyroo]

I do not live in Pennsylvania, and I don't yet have a high schooler, so take my advice with a huge block of salt...
I do have a student who completed algebra in 5th grade, so I will have to deal with many credits taken pre-high school.

For what it is worth...
I am going to list Algebra 1 (and other high school level courses taken in middle school) on his transcript...though, as mentioned above, I would probably not include them on the transcript pre-high school unless they are A grades.

I think I am going to organize his transcript by subject to emphasize progression and depth in his strong subjects.

I do plan to weight his honors and AP courses by adding .5 and 1 point to his GPA respectively which seems to be the standard locally...in your case, if your local district adds 4% (which I have never heard of) then I would not have a problem doing that.

 

As a completely unsolicited side note, before moving on to higher math courses, I would look deeply at what caused him to earn the B in the first place. Algebra is really the linchpin of higher math, and even a couple cracks in the foundation could make later classes very frustrating and difficult. I think it would be well worth the effort to go back through any topics he is shaky on and review for mastery. Once he has brought his learning up solidly into the A range, then I would definitely list the course as an A on his transcript.

[TamaraG]

8 hours ago, stripe said:

That's strange. The schools in my current state and where I grew up do list middle school classes as high school classes, usually math and additional languages. I've never heard of adding 4%.

The 4% isn't because of the grade, but because it's an Honors class, not traditional Algebra if that makes a difference.

[TamaraG]

8 hours ago, EKS said:

I would only add Algebra 1 to the transcript if his grade is an A (or will otherwise bring up his GPA, which you won't know until you're applying to colleges).

The 4% thing is weird.

The 4% is because it's an honors class. His current grade, without the 4%, is a high-ish B (87.157%).

[TamaraG]

8 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Here any high school courses in math, science, or language takrn in 8th grade count for high school credit. 

Do they impact the GPA?

 

8 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Here any high school courses in math, science, or language takrn in 8th grade count for high school credit. 

Thank you!

[TamaraG]

8 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I do not live in Pennsylvania, and I don't yet have a high schooler, so take my advice with a huge block of salt...
I do have a student who completed algebra in 5th grade, so I will have to deal with many credits taken pre-high school.

For what it is worth...
I am going to list Algebra 1 (and other high school level courses taken in middle school) on his transcript...though, as mentioned above, I would probably not include them on the transcript pre-high school unless they are A grades.

I think I am going to organize his transcript by subject to emphasize progression and depth in his strong subjects.

I do plan to weight his honors and AP courses by adding .5 and 1 point to his GPA respectively which seems to be the standard locally...in your case, if your local district adds 4% (which I have never heard of) then I would not have a problem doing that.

 

As a completely unsolicited side note, before moving on to higher math courses, I would look deeply at what caused him to earn the B in the first place. Algebra is really the linchpin of higher math, and even a couple cracks in the foundation could make later classes very frustrating and difficult. I think it would be well worth the effort to go back through any topics he is shaky on and review for mastery. Once he has brought his learning up solidly into the A range, then I would definitely list the course as an A on his transcript.

It was his first online class, and I chose Algebra as he'd already taken it in 7th grade through Saxon and had a 94%. This year we did it through Thinkwell which is online and I wanted it to be a class he'd already done well in as the online format was totally different and I wanted him to get used to it prior to his higher level courses. The 87% does not reflect his prior Saxon score, as I don't know how to calculate it (unless I just average the two, maybe?) and I am not sure if I should include it as it was completed in 7th grade. Do you think I should go ahead and weight the course, add in his Saxon and average, or just leave it as a B and count it as a learning curve? He will be moving on to Honors Geometry next school year.

[TamaraG]

Here is a copy of how my local school board weights it:

 

[ScoutTN]

38 minutes ago, TamaraG said:

Do they impact the GPA?

 

Thank you!

Yes, they do count in GPA. 

[wendyroo]

36 minutes ago, TamaraG said:

It was his first online class, and I chose Algebra as he'd already taken it in 7th grade through Saxon and had a 94%. This year we did it through Thinkwell which is online and I wanted it to be a class he'd already done well in as the online format was totally different and I wanted him to get used to it prior to his higher level courses. The 87% does not reflect his prior Saxon score, as I don't know how to calculate it (unless I just average the two, maybe?) and I am not sure if I should include it as it was completed in 7th grade. Do you think I should go ahead and weight the course, add in his Saxon and average, or just leave it as a B and count it as a learning curve? He will be moving on to Honors Geometry next school year.

Knowing it was his second pass through algebra would make me even more concerned about why he got a B. If he is weak in even a couple fundamental skills, that can really impact his future math.

Personally, I would decide that I was going to find a way to reinforce his algebra knowledge to make sure it was solid, and then I would put an A on the transcript.

Khan Academy might be a good choice. He could do the algebra "course challenge" which would pinpoint what topics he needs to work on. Then he could just go through those skills on Khan Academy.

At that point I would be be very comfortable giving him a A on his transcript, but more importantly I would be more confident that he has the algebra skills he will need to thrive in honors geometry.

[TamaraG]

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

Knowing it was his second pass through algebra would make me even more concerned about why he got a B. If he is weak in even a couple fundamental skills, that can really impact his future math.

Personally, I would decide that I was going to find a way to reinforce his algebra knowledge to make sure it was solid, and then I would put an A on the transcript.

Khan Academy might be a good choice. He could do the algebra "course challenge" which would pinpoint what topics he needs to work on. Then he could just go through those skills on Khan Academy.

At that point I would be be very comfortable giving him a A on his transcript, but more importantly I would be more confident that he has the algebra skills he will need to thrive in honors geometry.

I am not concerned about his grade - it was a new format and one which we did not understand how to correct his own work until much later in the year. (I fully anticipate the same struggle for my next child this upcoming year due to the format change.) I am 100% confident that he fully understands the concepts he was just unsure HOW to answer as he'd never completed an online class. I am not concerned about his knowledge as he can explain it and perform well, he was just unsure how to do it at the beginning of the year and it impacted his grade. I am also unwilling to just give him an A unless I am combining the two together which would equal a 91% on the 10 point scale. (We have to have documentation to back everything up - HIGH regulation state). So I may combine the two which would give him an A, but I have to provide the documentation to back it up. I can also change the values - I am counting tests as 60% - and he would score much higher as he didn't understand how to do his first test. At that point in time, the company didn't have "second chances", although they now offer that option.

[EKS]

 

36 minutes ago, TamaraG said:

I am not concerned about his grade - it was a new format and one which we did not understand how to correct his own work until much later in the year. (I fully anticipate the same struggle for my next child this upcoming year due to the format change.) I am 100% confident that he fully understands the concepts he was just unsure HOW to answer as he'd never completed an online class. I am not concerned about his knowledge as he can explain it and perform well, he was just unsure how to do it at the beginning of the year and it impacted his grade. I am also unwilling to just give him an A unless I am combining the two together which would equal a 91% on the 10 point scale. (We have to have documentation to back everything up - HIGH regulation state). So I may combine the two which would give him an A, but I have to provide the documentation to back it up. I can also change the values - I am counting tests as 60% - and he would score much higher as he didn't understand how to do his first test. At that point in time, the company didn't have "second chances", although they now offer that option.

If you are the one issuing the credit, you can drop that test score and recalculate.  If that would give a grade that reflects his understanding of the material better, IMO, it is the ethical thing to do.  And it is something that happens all the time in schools.  You could also give him a project or something that would boost his grade if you don't feel comfortable dropping a test score. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by EKS

[MamaSprout]

Yes- dropping the lowest test score it something that happens all the time.

[Dmmetler]

What I did, since I'm in a state that expects Algebra to be on the high school transcript, was have my kid do College Algebra-honors as one of the high school classes done DE. It actually did include some new content, was a nice algebra review before Calculus, and got something labeled algebra in high school. 

 

I did include some classes in 8th, but it's because they were college classes and would be on a college transcript. 

[RootAnn]

With all the issues being brought up with the grade, I'd leave it off the transcript.

I fully planned on including 8th grade classes on my oldest dd's transcript  (math plus two foreign languages), but when I took a look at everything when getting her transcript ready right before senior year, I decided to remove them.

You are very early in this process, so you can put them on there now & take them off later, IMO. 

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, TamaraG said:

Here is a copy of how my local school board weights it:

 

What I have seen is either a 0.5 or 1 extra point credit for honors course for the GPA. So a 3 becomes a 3.5 or a 4.0 for GPA calculations for weighted GPA.

Below link is a more general thread about coursework completed in middle school.
 

 

[Reefgazer]

I included math and foreign language that my kids did prior to 9th grade on their transcript.  My DD was admitted to several colleges with top scholarships with that method.

[MamaSprout]

We have both Algebra and Geometry on Dd's transcript but listed as 0 credit. She did them early enough that it would not be obvious from her higher classes that she had completed Geometry, and we live in a state that has an Algebra 1 standardized test public school students must pass. She also had a B in Geometry, so this was my solution that didn't drag down her GPA before she ever started high school.

We use a subject transcript and do add and subtract "high school level" stuff as needed. For example, when she applied to do DE, we created a transcript with everything she had done at the high school level because they wanted to see that. Many of those classes will not still be on her transcript when she graduates. 

For her final transcript we are including everything on her DE transcripts, all high school level math, things that are required for a sequence (foreign languages). 

Right now there's some science, but she is re-taking most of the high school level stuff as DE, so I might drop some of that off next year, too. I know a handful of colleges won't give credit for a class that was finished to complete both a high school and college credit, so in that case seeing both 8th grade high school chemistry and DE General Chem is necessary. I think she is unlikely to apply to those schools, who also tend to not be homeschool friendly. ~cough~Northwestern....

 

[8filltheheart]

I am not in PA, but I have always included high school courses finished prior to high school.  I have had kids take alg as early as 4th/5th grade.  (My 5th grader completed MUS alg/geo this yr that I will not include bc I treat it as pre-alg/pre-geo, but she will be doing honor alg in 6th with Foersters and I will include it on her transcript.)  I have had a dd who finished 5 high school credits for foreign language prior to high school (2 of Latin and 3 of French) plus 2 math credits (alg and geo), and 1 science cr (ecobiosystems).  Her history and English classes were also on a high school level, but those I didn't include bc they aren't sequential based and her high school courses were more than high school/beyond in representation.

What college admissions does with that info, I am not 100% sure.  But what the outcome has been for my kids, that I do know.  THey have been awarded competitive scholarships and invited to join specialized programs.  

FWIW, Us will recalculate GPAs according to their own formulas and preferences.  Your weighted GPA is going to be pretty meaningless in most circumstances.  There are some Us that say they base scholarships on reported GPAs, and in those cases, it could make a difference.

[fourisenough]

A somewhat unpopular opinion—

I did not include any 8th grade courses on DD’s transcript. It is obvious by her math progression that Algebra 1 was completed before high school as she went on to take and earn A’s in: geometry, algebra 2, Honors Pre-Calculus, AP Stats, and AP Calc (planned for 12th).

I don’t see any benefit cluttering the transcript with info that is irrelevant and doesn’t enhance her record.

Obviously, most people feel differently about this, but I thought I’d share my thinking. I think it would be different if algebra was completed in 5th or 6th; then, I’d want to show the progression because it’s pretty unusual. Algebra in 8th won’t surprise or really impress anyone; it has become a pretty standard college prep path.

Edited May 9, 2021 by fourisenough

[Arcadia]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:13 PM, wendyroo said:

I do have a student who completed algebra in 5th grade, so I will have to deal with many credits taken pre-high school.

DS16 completed algebra in elementary school. I listed his math classes from 6th grade onwards but as not for credit. He has 14 math classes listed on his transcript by subject (group by California a-g requirements). He has five quarters of dual enrollment math classes and that more than take care of state university requirements. 

[TamaraG]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:46 AM, fourisenough said:

A somewhat unpopular opinion—

I did not include any 8th grade courses on DD’s transcript. It is obvious by her math progression that Algebra 1 was completed before high school as she went on to take and earn A’s in: geometry, algebra 2, Honors Pre-Calculus, AP Stats, and AP Calc (planned for 12th).

I don’t see any benefit cluttering the transcript with info that is irrelevant and doesn’t enhance her record.

Obviously, most people feel differently about this, but I thought I’d share my thinking. I think it would be different if algebra was completed in 5th or 6th; then, I’d want to show the progression because it’s pretty unusual. Algebra in 8th won’t surprise or really impress anyone; it has become a pretty standard college prep path.

This is what my evaluator is stating we should do, so it may be the route we go!

 

[Momto6inIN]

I didn't include 8th grade either. Perhaps if they only had 3 math credits in 9th-11th and nothing in 12th I would have wanted to count it as a 4th math credit. But for most people the entire reason to begin Alg 1 before high school is so they can go further in math before graduation, not because they want to stop after 11th grade, so I figured it was obvious he'd completed Alg before high school. I did include an asterisk in the notes section which said something to the effect of Alg 1 & 2 were completed prior to 9th grade and are not reflected in course credits or GPA.

[RootAnn]

I planned to include foreign language & high school math taken before high school in their transcripts. In fact, it was on dd#1's until summer before senior year. I ended up taking it off because it didn't make sense to include for her. Dd#2's also didn't make sense to include, but for different reasons than dd#1's.

Dd#3 will also likely not have any pre-9th grade classes on hers.

[kokotg]

I haven't included algebra taken in middle school on transcripts. I will include the Spanish my now 9th grader took in 7th and 8th because he took high school classes through our public virtual school those years. So I think of them more as actual high school classes instead of advanced middle school (they offer middle school Spanish, too, I believe, but he took the high school level along with his older brother). Also because he didn't really do enough Spanish in 9th grade to be credit worthy (he did enough not to lose ground, and he'll pick up with spanish 3 next year), so showing that he did high school work in middle school will make me feel better about that. Perhaps not airtight logic, but it's what I've got!

[NittanyJen]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:56 PM, TamaraG said:

We just had our portfolio evaluation (high regulation state) and I asked my evaluator about the Algebra 1 in 8th grade (my oldest just finished honors algebra 1). It is her opinion that I should not even include the Algebra 1 on my sons transcripts since it was completed prior to 9th grade as per our state law, it technically does not count as completed in grades 9-12. She said I CAN include it if I so choose, but it isn't necessary as it should be obvious he took the course if he is doing higher level mathematics. In addition, she did confirm that if I do include it on my transcript, since it was an honors course I should go ahead and add 4% as this is how my local school district counts honors classes. (I know I don't have to follow PS standards, but in Pennsylvania I AM choosing to do at least the equivalent as if our evaluator signs our transcripts/diploma it is equal to that of public schools in the eyes of Pennsylvania law). So, I guess my question is - would you add Algebra 1 anyways? I know we will still have to do at least three more math classes for high school per our state law. If you would add it, would you do a year or a subject format transcript. Also, would you go ahead and add the 4% to what we'd previously calculated his grade? His current, non weighted grade is 87.157, so adding 4% would make it a 91.157, which moves it from a B to an A (10 point scale). Thanks for any input!

We did not include courses completed prior to high school on the transcript. On my older son’s transcript, I just included an asterisked footnote that said, “Mathematics sequence prior to calculus completed prior to 9th grade with high A average, not included in total credits or GPA.”

He did not have any questions about whether he took algebra—precalc from colleges or any problems with them not appearing officially on the transcript. We plan to do similar for our youngest when he applies this fall.

I think that as long as you are transparent about what you are doing and don’t try to mislead— don’t list it as completed in high school if it was not— it is fine to go either way as you see fit, as long as courses completed prior to high school are clearly labeled. Some colleges specifically disallow courses from prior to 9th grade, and others don’t say anything about it. If applying using the Common App, you will be using one transcript to cover all situations, so simply being transparent and accurate is your best bet, no matter which way you choose to go.

To my way of thinking, the only wrong way to choose would be to be dishonest and try to conceal when courses were taken.

 

 

[MamaSprout]

I'm popping back into this thread because I just ran into a scenario where I do need to list pre-9th grade course work.

Dd will probably apply this fall to just two schools (she's technically an 11th grader), and both have specific high school science courses they want to see for her major. She took both in middle school (regular chemistry and physics). She has since taken General Chem as DE, but University Physics is scheduled for this fall. When I checked some Reddit threads, the one school was not offering admissions to students until they reported mid-year grades for physics. To avoid this, I need to show that she has already completed a physics course and report her grade.

I will email the university before submitting her application, but for now I have a section on her transcript for everything high school level that she completed before 9th grade but with no credit assigned. Now that the section it is on there, I really do feel like it shows a more complete picture of her as a student.

Edited June 16, 2021 by MamaSprout

[8filltheheart]

FWIW, there is no reason not to give credit.  If the U doesn't want to use those grades/cr when recalculating GPA, they will ignore them.  But, if they want the information and it isn't provided, there is nothing they can do about it without it.

[MamaSprout]

7 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

FWIW, there is no reason not to give credit.  If the U doesn't want to use those grades/cr when recalculating GPA, they will ignore them.  But, if they want the information and it isn't provided, there is nothing they can do about it without it.

Oh gosh. It's a lot of credit. I dropped off all of the physical education/ health stuff so it doesn't look padded. But you are right. Since I have those credits in their own column on an otherwise subject transcript, I guess it would be easy enough to recalculate without them.

[8filltheheart]

19 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

Oh gosh. It's a lot of credit. I dropped off all of the physical education/ health stuff so it doesn't look padded. But you are right. Since I have those credits in their own column on an otherwise subject transcript, I guess it would be easy enough to recalculate without them.

I'm not sure why you think it will look padded.   I have had a student graduate with close to 50 credits.  It wasn't padded.  It simply represented who he was a student.  It didn't look padded bc the subsequent coursework he took was all at a high level.  Padded is when there are a lot of courses that don't add value to the academic sequence (pe, health, driver's ed).

[Clemsondana]

I'm not sure what our transcript will be like, just because I can make one myself (and am keeping records to be able to do that) but we also have an umbrella school and it's possible that we will use the transcript that they will make - we technically get a diploma saying that we graduated from their 'Independent Study Program'.  I don't plan to use grades from middle school and kid will have at at least 4 courses each of math, science, history, and English so that isn't a problem.  But, kid did Number Theory and Intro to Probability in middle school and I want to include those, both because they are interesting classes and because they are the reason that kid isn't a year further along the normal progression.  I, and probably the umbrella, will likely just list them separately as 'classes taken prior to 9th grade'.  I don't plan to include the grades, but I might change my mind if there's a reason to. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:41 PM, 8filltheheart said:

FWIW, there is no reason not to give credit.  If the U doesn't want to use those grades/cr when recalculating GPA, they will ignore them.  But, if they want the information and it isn't provided, there is nothing they can do about it without it.

And given how overworked many admissions offices are, you can't assume they will reach out for clarification.

I also remind myself that Admissions is used to reviewing many different high school transcripts, which can be very different from state to state. There is usually space on the transcript to specify grading scales and weighting practices. The School Profile is another document that can offer a lot of context for what the student did.

On 6/7/2021 at 11:09 PM, NittanyJen said:

I think that as long as you are transparent about what you are doing and don’t try to mislead— don’t list it as completed in high school if it was not— it is fine to go either way as you see fit, as long as courses completed prior to high school are clearly labeled. Some colleges specifically disallow courses from prior to 9th grade, and others don’t say anything about it. If applying using the Common App, you will be using one transcript to cover all situations, so simply being transparent and accurate is your best bet, no matter which way you choose to go.

To my way of thinking, the only wrong way to choose would be to be dishonest and try to conceal when courses were taken.

 

 

 

This is where I usually land. Be clear about what you did. I was cautious about doing something with a course that had a strong grade, but not treating a course with a lower grade the same way.

[MamaSprout]

1 hour ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

This is where I usually land. Be clear about what you did. I was cautious about doing something with a course that had a strong grade, but not treating a course with a lower grade the same way.

Yes... went ahead and put all of dd’s high school level stuff on complete with corse descriptions and her B in Geometry....

I did leave off some borderline social studies and all the physical education and health stuff she completed when she planned to attend boarding school.

Edited June 19, 2021 by MamaSprout

[MamaSprout]

Transcript observation from a very small sample size.

I was at an admissions event for one of dd's choices yesterday. Since I had some very specific questions, I had taken along her transcript. To facilitate my conversation, I handed her transcript to two different admissions people. In both cases, I noticed that they read them bottom to top, right to left (dd's is two columns). I assume they are looking to see the highest level courses taken.

My take-away is that while we would naturally put the most important information top left, that is not necessarily the case for transcripts. Even with a subject transcript, the "most important" subjects (for that school/ major) should probably go to the bottom/ right side. ETA- right now the bottom right on her transcript is "courses taken before high school", so that's all they saw before they started answering my question!

Edited June 25, 2021 by MamaSprout

[fourisenough]

1 hour ago, MamaSprout said:

Transcript observation from a very small sample size.

I was at an admissions event for one of dd's choices yesterday. Since I had some very specific questions, I had taken along her transcript. To facilitate my conversation, I handed her transcript to two different admissions people. In both cases, I noticed that they read them bottom to top, right to left (dd's is two columns). I assume they are looking to see the highest level courses taken.

My take-away is that while we would naturally put the most important information top left, that is not necessarily the case for transcripts. Even with a subject transcript, the "most important" subjects (for that school/ major) should probably go to the bottom/ right side. ETA- right now the bottom right on her transcript is "courses taken before high school", so that's all they saw before they started answering my question!

What an interesting observation! Were you just watching their eyes tracking or how did you deduce this?

I used the Fast Transcripts service to produce mine. It lists: 9th grade on upper left, 10th grade on upper right, 11th grade in lower left, and 12th grade on lower right. The very bottom right is a cumulative summary of total credits and GPA. I wonder if they design theirs intentionally because that’s how Ad Coms like to view them?

[MamaSprout]

17 minutes ago, fourisenough said:

What an interesting observation! Were you just watching their eyes tracking or how did you deduce this?

I used the Fast Transcripts service to produce mine. It lists: 9th grade on upper left, 10th grade on upper right, 11th grade in lower left, and 12th grade on lower right. The very bottom right is a cumulative summary of total credits and GPA. I wonder if they design theirs intentionally because that’s how Ad Coms like to view them?

The first one actually put her finger there and started answering my question based on what was listed in the bottom right corner. After I noticed that, I was kind of watching the second persons eyes.

Edited June 25, 2021 by MamaSprout