Ughhhhh my landlord wants to sell our rental - Updated: We decided to buy it.

[Zebra]

31 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Thanks all! I feel relieved. Not quite excited, but definitely relieved. 

I obviously don't know your exact situation.   But I will say, I live in Maine.   An "expensive" part of Maine.   And my "starter home" 900 square foot ranch would sell for more than 300K right now.  It's utterly incomprehensible.   We just had a 2 bedroom, 1 car garage house on our street that was flipped and done up (extremely nicely) go for $606K.   .2 acre lot.   Yes, granite countertops and all that, but the prices are absolutely MIND. BLOWING.  The prices just keep going up and up and up and up.   DH and I would really like to move, but we can't because there is nowhere to go within a reasonable distance of his job.   Houses are too expensive, and the lack of supply is ridiculous.    We've lived here all of our lives, and in this house for 17 years, and the whole situation is extremely frustrating and frankly, a little scary.   My former neighbor just sold her house, and has made offer after offer and cannot find another house to buy right now.   

Basically,  another house will be virtually impossible to find.   Even to rent.   I really think you made the right call, in this crazy situation.         

[katilac]

1 hour ago, kristin0713 said:

 I think some of the shock about cameras is regional.  It is very common here in NJ and current buyers know this.  Our agent had no problem with it and I will reiterate that our cameras were NOT hidden, they were VERY obvious.  

Yes, I would 100% assume that an open house had cameras! A large number of people have cameras in their house to begin with, I'd certainly expect it when strangers are going in and out. It's like going to a store, imo. 

[MEmama]

16 minutes ago, Zebra said:

I obviously don't know your exact situation.   But I will say, I live in Maine.   An "expensive" part of Maine.   And my "starter home" 900 square foot ranch would sell for more than 300K right now.  It's utterly incomprehensible.   We just had a 2 bedroom, 1 car garage house on our street that was flipped and done up (extremely nicely) go for $606K.   .2 acre lot.   Yes, granite countertops and all that, but the prices are absolutely MIND. BLOWING.  The prices just keep going up and up and up and up.   DH and I would really like to move, but we can't because there is nowhere to go within a reasonable distance of his job.   Houses are too expensive, and the lack of supply is ridiculous.    We've lived here all of our lives, and in this house for 17 years, and the whole situation is extremely frustrating and frankly, a little scary.   My former neighbor just sold her house, and has made offer after offer and cannot find another house to buy right now.   

Basically,  another house will be virtually impossible to find.   Even to rent.   I really think you made the right call, in this crazy situation.         

I’ve wondered if you had found another house, but I guess not. 😞 

With empty nesting upon us, I would love to downsize from our “family home”, but there’s no way we could afford to even if anything smaller was available (there isn’t). There are a few condos being built in our town but they are going for more than our house would sell for, so that’s not a good move. 
 

I wonder what the huge driver is? Out of state buyers capitalising on permanent work from home situation and getting out of Boston? There’s always the influx of retirees and second home buyers, but this seems like more than that. The market was super tight when we bought 10 years ago but now we wouldn’t have a prayer of a chance to move here. Who are these people?! Lol.

I agree, Kanin, it sounds like you made a good decision. Fingers crossed! 

Edited April 18, 2021 by MEmama

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, katilac said:

Yes, I would 100% assume that an open house had cameras! A large number of people have cameras in their house to begin with, I'd certainly expect it when strangers are going in and out. It's like going to a store, imo. 

I don’t think this is as clear cut as it’s being made out to be. The question is whether you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a private viewing vs a public open house where anyone can drop by. They’re not the same events/circumstances. Also, in a private showing, the homeowners aren’t typically a party to the conversations taking place inside the home so can they give consent when they’re not a part of the conversation? It’s not at all clear to me that they can, even in a one party consent state. Recording the conversations taking place inside without giving notice in the listing or on the premises that people will be recorded during showings seems very sketchy. I think this is one of those times that technology is way ahead of the law and I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of an adverse judgment because of it. I wouldn’t do this without giving anyone who enters fair warning or without a member of the household capable of giving consent being present.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Bootsie]

9 minutes ago, katilac said:

Yes, I would 100% assume that an open house had cameras! A large number of people have cameras in their house to begin with, I'd certainly expect it when strangers are going in and out. It's like going to a store, imo. 

Do you think there is a difference in a store and a homeowner having cameras for security and for a homeowner or store owner to have cameras to go back and replay conversations between customers when there is no security issue involved?  To see if it is a customer that they want to sell to?  To see if there is anything being said in that conversation to influence negotiating or bargaining power?  

Personally, I would have no problem with a homeowner having security cameras for security reasons.  If I had reason to believe, however, that the homeowner went back to watch the videos (when there was no reason to believe there was a security problem) to listen to what I said about the house, property, my buying decisions, etc., I would find it inappropriate and would question whether I wanted to enter into a contract with that homeowner. 

 

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

This is what we’ve done.  We were recently able to purchase a second home with mostly cash.   Some of it we did cash out stocks, but some of it we’ve managed to save a lot the last three years. We also put all our yearly cost of living increases into our 401Ks so we’re living on what we were making in 2015.  
 

The housing market here isn’t quite as crazy.  Things sell fast(the house we bought had three offers within 24 hours of being on the market) but there just aren’t enough people who live here or want to move here to drive up prices.  We paid only 145K for a 1900 square foot ranch on 1.3 acres in a prime school district. 

That is very similar to our market.  

[Scarlett]

Here in rural OK, I am showing my dss an adorable 750 sq house that has been Completely redone..... metal roof, all new Sheetrock...very nice appliances, including washer dryer....1/3 acre lot........just adorable..  not high end finishes but very nice.  94k.  It was listed yesterday and I bet money ( not really, I don’t gamble) it is sold  end of the day tomorrow.  

[Zebra]

40 minutes ago, MEmama said:

I’ve wondered if you had found another house, but I guess not. 😞 

I wonder what the huge driver is? Out of state buyers capitalising on permanent work from home situation and getting out of Boston? 

I agree, Kanin, it sounds like you made a good decision. Fingers crossed! 

No possibility of us finding another house right now.    And in our neighborhood it's people fleeing Boston, which I think is short sighted.   

 

 

[Kanin]

1 hour ago, Zebra said:

I obviously don't know your exact situation.   But I will say, I live in Maine.   An "expensive" part of Maine.   And my "starter home" 900 square foot ranch would sell for more than 300K right now.  It's utterly incomprehensible.   We just had a 2 bedroom, 1 car garage house on our street that was flipped and done up (extremely nicely) go for $606K.   .2 acre lot.   Yes, granite countertops and all that, but the prices are absolutely MIND. BLOWING.  The prices just keep going up and up and up and up.   DH and I would really like to move, but we can't because there is nowhere to go within a reasonable distance of his job.   Houses are too expensive, and the lack of supply is ridiculous.    We've lived here all of our lives, and in this house for 17 years, and the whole situation is extremely frustrating and frankly, a little scary.   My former neighbor just sold her house, and has made offer after offer and cannot find another house to buy right now.   

Basically,  another house will be virtually impossible to find.   Even to rent.   I really think you made the right call, in this crazy situation.         

YOWZA, that's insane! Are people commuting to Boston, or something? Or just working from home? It's awful that you can't move even though you want to. I remember your posts about your loud neighbors, and I felt for you so much 😞 

I can't see how a teeny tiny house with .2 acres - granite countertops notwithstanding - could be worth over half a million bucks. Just wow. 

Would your DH switch jobs?

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

I don’t think this is as clear cut as it’s being made out to be. The question is whether you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a private viewing vs a public open house where anyone can drop by. They’re not the same events/circumstances. Also, in a private showing, the homeowners aren’t typically a party to the conversations taking place inside the home so can they give consent when they’re not a part of the conversation? It’s not at all clear to me that they can, even in a one party consent state.  

 

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Do you think there is a difference in a store and a homeowner having cameras for security and for a homeowner or store owner to have cameras to go back and replay conversations between customers when there is no security issue involved?  To see if it is a customer that they want to sell to?  To see if there is anything being said in that conversation to influence negotiating or bargaining power?  

 

You know, I was only thinking of the camera (the visual) and not the audio, even though they did say enough to assume there was audio. 

The open house vs private viewing would not bother me personally (in the sense that I would assume cameras were present), but you both have a point: I would not assume there was audio. And the legal bar for audio is much higher than it is for video. 

[Zebra]

19 minutes ago, kand said:

Move it to parts of California and it would be worth twice that, even without the granite! (For example: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Campbell/105-Kennedy-Ave-95008/home/824742)

It’s crazy how much housing prices vary around the country. 

The 606K house I mentioned earlier was bought in February 2020 for $250K.   It was in fine shape, there was nothing wrong with it.    Just a regular house.   They just made everything "really really nice".  They sold it in November for $606K to someone fleeing another state.   We've never had prices comparable to California before.      

Which is why I think the OP is smart to buy her rental, if she can.   

[73349]

12 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

I’m in NJ and moving to PA where we are seeing the same thing happening. People are leaving NY to move here, people are leaving NJ to move...anywhere else 😂  That’s why we decided to build. We’re two hours away from our destination and with nothing on the market and houses selling within hours, we didn’t have a chance. 

Greetings from Central Anywhere Else (where housing prices have doubled in the past 25 years).

10 hours ago, historically accurate said:

People record open houses/house showings now?!?! I'm never speaking during one of those again. I find that awful. 

Owners/tenants experience theft (often of jewelry, small electronics, or prescriptions, easily slipped into pockets) and even vandalism during showings, so yeah. Some realtors even take people's driver's license info in case there's a complaint later--agents have sometimes been accused of theft themselves. And I would assume that a lot of people have Alexa, Ring, etc., anyway.

[historically accurate]

2 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

Greetings from Central Anywhere Else (where housing prices have doubled in the past 25 years).

Owners/tenants experience theft (often of jewelry, small electronics, or prescriptions, easily slipped into pockets) and even vandalism during showings, so yeah. Some realtors even take people's driver's license info in case there's a complaint later--agents have sometimes been accused of theft themselves. And I would assume that a lot of people have Alexa, Ring, etc., anyway.

I can kinda see (ha! pun not intended, but I'm totally keeping it) a video, but recording what I say about a house seems to be over the "fairness" line. And it really puts the seller's finger on the scale for negotiations if they know you want the house or need it - sellers can then know they can decline repairs or can counter at a higher price. I often criticize houses (not that I've been shopping for a house for years, but I've moved over 20 times in my life) because DH does not have my house-buying skills so I'll mention the horrible wallpaper or the overabundance of furniture to let him know that those are easily changed or mention the bad kitchen layout because it's not easy to change. Not to even mention the fair housing thing brought up earlier. It seems squicky in my opinion. 

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, katilac said:

Yes, I would 100% assume that an open house had cameras! A large number of people have cameras in their house to begin with, I'd certainly expect it when strangers are going in and out. It's like going to a store, imo. 

 

5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I don’t think this is as clear cut as it’s being made out to be. The question is whether you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a private viewing vs a public open house where anyone can drop by. They’re not the same events/circumstances. Also, in a private showing, the homeowners aren’t typically a party to the conversations taking place inside the home so can they give consent when they’re not a part of the conversation? It’s not at all clear to me that they can, even in a one party consent state. Recording the conversations taking place inside without giving notice in the listing or on the premises that people will be recorded during showings seems very sketchy. I think this is one of those times that technology is way ahead of the law and I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of an adverse judgment because of it. I wouldn’t do this without giving anyone who enters fair warning or without a member of the household capable of giving consent being present.

Store cameras don't have audio because it's illegal to record a conversation without at least one person's consent. It's against federal wiretapping laws.  It's illegal in an open house situation too . . . even in New Jersey.

Edited April 19, 2021 by KungFuPanda

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Kanin said:

 

I can't see how a teeny tiny house with .2 acres - granite countertops notwithstanding - could be worth over half a million bucks. Just wow. 

 

4 hours ago, kand said:

Move it to parts of California and it would be worth twice that, even without the granite! (For example: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Campbell/105-Kennedy-Ave-95008/home/824742)

It’s crazy how much housing prices vary around the country. 

To be fair, Campbell is part of South Bay in SF Bay Area, and the price is already on the low side.

We were looking at this but I can’t drive and my teens have no desire to, plus it is a very long commute (54 miles in peak hour traffic) to work. Also it is by lottery after getting preapproved. No guarantees of getting the unit you want.
 

“PRICED FROM $851,880

HOME SIZE 3122 sq.ft.

STORIES 2 BEDS 4 BATHS 3”

https://www.lennar.com/new-homes/california/san-francisco-bay-area/tracy/tracy-hills/opal/residence-two

[Carol in Cal.]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:23 AM, ktgrok said:

All this is stressing me out!!!! 

We really need to move, but no way can we pay cash, we are hoping to clear a little under 100K in equity from this house, but then there are closing costs, moving costs, etc. We are looking at houses around 400K, hopefully under but probably not much. As of right now there are ZERO houses for sale in our price range with the square footage we need, in the area we want. I mean, Realtor.com shows half a dozen or so but all are already pending. Given how quick things are selling here (average time on market is 2 weeks I think right now) I can't see us winning a bidding war, we need a mortgage so can't wave appraisal/inspection, etc. I'd hoped we'd be able to buy something contingent on sale of our house, like people have done for decades, but I'm hearing the market is so hot that a contingent offer doesn't stand a chance. So that means selling, renting short term which is exhorbitant, an that's IF we can find a rental that is short term that will take 5 pets!!! 

I'm terrified. Originally we were going to build to avoid this, but there is almost no building going on in the areas we are looking at. Maybe some near my mom's might be starting, but now we are leaning more to staying near my sister with the idea my parents will eventually move there too and everyone be close. 

What you need, then, is to get preapproved for a mortgage.  That makes it clear that you’re serious, and strengthens your offer under the circumstances.

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

What you need, then, is to get preapproved for a mortgage.  That makes it clear that you’re serious, and strengthens your offer under the circumstances.

good point. I know preapproval is different from prequalified - but need to look more into it. 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

good point. I know preapproval is different from prequalified - but need to look more into it. 

I know a great, informative mortgage guy if you need to consult someone.  LMK.

[Carol in Cal.]

13 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

To be fair, Campbell is part of South Bay in SF Bay Area, and the price is already on the low side.

We were looking at this but I can’t drive and my teens have no desire to, plus it is a very long commute (54 miles in peak hour traffic) to work. Also it is by lottery after getting preapproved. No guarantees of getting the unit you want.
 

“PRICED FROM $851,880

HOME SIZE 3122 sq.ft.

STORIES 2 BEDS 4 BATHS 3”

https://www.lennar.com/new-homes/california/san-francisco-bay-area/tracy/tracy-hills/opal/residence-two

It’s nice to have a downstairs bedroom like this one has.  That makes it more likely that you could age in place, which is increasingly concerning to me, LOL.

Tracy is a bit risky in terms of commute and hence value.  In the last downturn houses just a bit further out dropped in value by 3/4.  It was shocking.  

[Arcadia]

Just now, ktgrok said:

. I know preapproval is different from prequalified - but need to look more into it. 

A preapproval is valid for 90 days so that helps. The mortgage lender do need more details, similar to the information you need to file federal taxes.  We are looking for a bigger home in the same neighborhood and they are being sold very fast. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

It’s nice to have a downstairs bedroom like this one has.  That makes it more likely that you could age in place, which is increasingly concerning to me, LOL.

Tracy is a bit risky in terms of commute and hence value.  In the last downturn houses just a bit further out dropped in value by 3/4.  It was shocking.  

There was one with a full master suite near the kitchen/living room area and it is single story which is better for aging in place. Our condo drop 1/3 in value during the downturn.

https://www.lennar.com/New-Homes/California/San-Francisco-Bay-Area/Tracy/Tracy-Hills/Opal/RESIDENCE-ONE

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

A preapproval is valid for 90 days so that helps. The mortgage lender do need more details, similar to the information you need to file federal taxes.  We are looking for a bigger home in the same neighborhood and they are being sold very fast. 

Preapprovals may only be good for 30-60 days.  There is not an exact definition of pre-qualification or pre-approval, or how long they are valid, it will vary from lender to lender and from market to market.

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

There was one with a full master suite near the kitchen/living room area and it is single story which is better for aging in place. Our condo drop 1/3 in value during the downturn.

https://www.lennar.com/New-Homes/California/San-Francisco-Bay-Area/Tracy/Tracy-Hills/Opal/RESIDENCE-ONE

The houses that dropped by 3/4 were in Lathrop.  I had friends who moved out there and were thrilled to get an almost brand new house for half of the price that the prior owners had paid, only to watch it drop in half AGAIN.  Lathrop is a little further out than Tracy, but not much.  They were commuting to Milpitas, and that was back when it was almost impossible to get an employer to let you work remotely very much.  I think they drove in together, 3-4 times per week.  It was rough and then they ended up losing half the value of their house.  Very cautionary.  

[sassenach]

15 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

To be fair, Campbell is part of South Bay in SF Bay Area, and the price is already on the low side.

We were looking at this but I can’t drive and my teens have no desire to, plus it is a very long commute (54 miles in peak hour traffic) to work. Also it is by lottery after getting preapproved. No guarantees of getting the unit you want.
 

“PRICED FROM $851,880

HOME SIZE 3122 sq.ft.

STORIES 2 BEDS 4 BATHS 3”

https://www.lennar.com/new-homes/california/san-francisco-bay-area/tracy/tracy-hills/opal/residence-two

Tracy is way the heck out there.

[sassenach]

20 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

The houses that dropped by 3/4 were in Lathrop.  I had friends who moved out there and were thrilled to get an almost brand new house for half of the price that the prior owners had paid, only to watch it drop in half AGAIN.  Lathrop is a little further out than Tracy, but not much.  They were commuting to Milpitas, and that was back when it was almost impossible to get an employer to let you work remotely very much.  I think they drove in together, 3-4 times per week.  It was rough and then they ended up losing half the value of their house.  Very cautionary.  

That happened to some friends of ours that moved out to Mountain House. Things really went sideways out there. I think at one point the city couldn't afford to keep street lights on at night.

[Arcadia]

47 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Preapprovals may only be good for 30-60 days.  There is not an exact definition of pre-qualification or pre-approval, or how long they are valid, it will vary from lender to lender and from market to market.

Didn’t realize that. We were told 90 days by the big 5 banks in our area.
@ktgrok https://www.consumerfinance.gov/owning-a-home/process/explore/get-prequalification-or-preapproval-letter/

1 minute ago, sassenach said:

Tracy is way the heck out there.

My husband and I agreed that the commute not only for work but for medical appointments would not be feasible. His boss does live in Tracy and commute to the Sunnyvale office daily for the past few years preCOVID.

We like your area too but that would mean paying bridge toll for the work commute.

[Carol in Cal.]

11 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Tracy is way the heck out there.

See, to me it’s not that far.  I go to and from the cabin right past it all the time.  If the roads are clear it only takes an hour to get to San Jose from there, and most work locations being further north and east from here would be a bit closer.  It’s super important (crucial!) to be able to avoid the bumper to bumper traffic on the Altamont Pass and in from there though for it to be even remotely reasonable, but there are toll lanes now and if you can save a lot of money on a home, those might be worth it.  I don’t know how crowded or slow they are, though.

I still think the biggest risk right now is a big housing price drop out there.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Carol in Cal.

[sassenach]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

See, to me it’s not that far.  I go to and from the cabin right past it all the time.  If the roads are clear it only takes an hour to get to San Jose from there, and most work locations being further north and east from here would be a bit closer.  It’s super important (crucial!) to be able to avoid the bumper to bumper traffic on the Altamont Pass and in from there though for it to be even remotely reasonable, but there are toll roads now and if you can save a lot of money on a home, those might be worth it.  I don’t know how crowded or slow they are, though.

Ya know, it really is all about perspective. I'm commuting to Antioch all summer, so I guess I shouldn't poo poo it!

[Carol in Cal.]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Ya know, it really is all about perspective. I'm commuting to Antioch all summer, so I guess I shouldn't poo poo it!

Well, the roads to Tracy are easy freeways, no weird two lane, mudslide ridden, bumpy stuff.  Practically auto pilot.  But the main draw would be not having to make the trip very often.  I agree with Arcadia’s husband that it would be unreasonable coupled with frequent medical appointments.  But someone who could usually work from home 3-4 days per week or more could live pretty well in Tracy unless and until they had a medical emergency that necessitated frequent doctor visits over a lengthy period of time.

I’ve seriously considered building a very medically easy/accessible tiny house in our backyard and moving out of the area and renting out our house.  That way the tiny house would always be available to us when we needed to be here in town, and later on would help us help people or ourselves in need of a very accessible home right in the Bay Area.  

But tiny homes like that are crazy expensive to build here, like $300Kish, and I hate to put one on the same earthquake fault as our actual home, in our former swampland neighborhood that is liquefaction  prone.  There is a real need for medically accessible housing in this area.  I’m not sure what to do about it for us, honestly.  Our house is all on one level, which is a great start, but the doorways are too narrow for a wheelchair and challenging even for a walker, and there is really nowhere obvious to put an accessible shower.

[kristin0713]

16 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

Store cameras don't have audio because it's illegal to record a conversation without at least one person's consent. It's against federal wiretapping laws.  It's illegal in an open house situation too . . . even in New Jersey.

You know, we never thought about it being legal or not because it is so common around here. We've had cameras for a couple of years.  We moved two of the outdoor cameras to the bedrooms specifically to monitor our stuff. The others remained where they were.  It's not like we went out and bought the cameras to spy on showings, but yes we did watch them whenever the alert went off that someone was in the house.  I have a hard time thinking that anyone wouldn't watch.  I mean, whatever.  What's done is done.  We accepted the best offer on paper and felt good about it because of what we saw on camera. All of the clips (which were short) eventually deleted themselves as space got filled up. 

My point in sharing that to begin with was that the strongest offer is not necessarily the highest offer. 

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

You know, we never thought about it being legal or not because it is so common around here. We've had cameras for a couple of years.  We moved two of the outdoor cameras to the bedrooms specifically to monitor our stuff. The others remained where they were.  It's not like we went out and bought the cameras to spy on showings, but yes we did watch them whenever the alert went off that someone was in the house.  I have a hard time thinking that anyone wouldn't watch.  I mean, whatever.  What's done is done.  We accepted the best offer on paper and felt good about it because of what we saw on camera. All of the clips (which were short) eventually deleted themselves as space got filled up. 

My point in sharing that to begin with was that the strongest offer is not necessarily the highest offer. 

I didn't mean to harass you.  You really had no idea.  My gut reaction to the camera was that it seemed wrong, but I had to do some googling to confirm that it was illegal.  Whoever compared it to store cameras tripped my memory that they don't record sound.  Everyone owning their own surveillance cameras is a relatively new development and it might not occur to the average homeowner that they can't record audio in their own home without consent. With so may Hive real estate transactions happening now, this might be useful information to someone going forward.