Flu + Covid is Happening Now!

[easypeasy]

DHs coworker just tested positive for Covid AND positive for the flu.

It's happening. 😨

He's been so very careful throughout this whole thing, so I'm not sure where/when he slipped up, but obvs it happened in a big way. 😕 So far, his family is negative for both and feeling healthy, but they are holing up at home waiting a few more days to test again.

[easypeasy]

2 minutes ago, kand said:

Yikes. When you say coworker, are they working in person? Was your dh exposed? Or do you mean he's been at home this whole time and still ended up catching it? I hope he fights both off well and doesn't get too sick.

 No, they've been in home offices since March, so DH hasn't been exposed.

They only go into the office to get supplies and such and they have to stagger their arrival times. It's driving DH crazy, but he's mighty thankful today! lol He talked to the guy today and the guy has no idea where he was exposed to one virus, let alone both!!!

The only possibility he can think of is that he and his wife had started going into restaurants to eat once or twice a week for the past month or so... but wife is still clear and symptom free!

Reinforced my takeout only policy! lol

Edited December 1, 2020 by easypeasy

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, easypeasy said:

He talked to the guy today and the guy has no idea where he was exposed to one virus, let alone both!!!

The only possibility he can think of is that he and his wife had started going into restaurants to eat once or twice a week for the past month or so... but wife is still clear and symptom free!

Reinforced my takeout only policy! lol

Well, yeah, he's been indoors, without a mask, with a bunch of other people who are also not wearing masks. I mean, there probably are hundreds of people in and out of that room over the course of a day - so if he thinks that is "careful" he's confused. Eating inside a restaurant is not considered a safe behavior by scientists/health experts. 

[Martha in GA]

 

6 hours ago, easypeasy said:

The only possibility he can think of is that he and his wife had started going into restaurants to eat once or twice a week for the past month or so... but wife is still clear and symptom free!

And he can't figure out where he was exposed? Going to restaurants doesn't seem like careful behavior to me.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Well, yeah, he's been indoors, without a mask, with a bunch of other people who are also not wearing masks. I mean, there probably are hundreds of people in and out of that room over the course of a day - so if he thinks that is "careful" he's confused. Eating inside a restaurant is not considered a safe behavior by scientists/health experts. 

 

35 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

 

And he can't figure out where he was exposed? Going to restaurants doesn't seem like careful behavior to me.

Exactly. I just had a text conversation with my sister who thinks there is no difference between working with a mask on and eating in a restaurant or having a big family gathering.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Well, yeah, he's been indoors, without a mask, with a bunch of other people who are also not wearing masks. I mean, there probably are hundreds of people in and out of that room over the course of a day - so if he thinks that is "careful" he's confused. Eating inside a restaurant is not considered a safe behavior by scientists/health experts. 

Yep. Exactly. Indoor places are exposure risks, prolonged times in indoor places are worse exposure risks, prolonged times in indoor places with no mask on are the worst exposure risks. 

How’s he feeling, easypeasy?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[PeterPan]

Is the flu shot not working this year? 

[Soror]

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Is the flu shot not working this year? 

We don't know if he even had the shot.

_______________

I'm glad I got my flu shot, it is never 100% but it will improve my odds. I had the flu last year, I'd rather not get it again.

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Well, yeah, he's been indoors, without a mask, with a bunch of other people who are also not wearing masks. I mean, there probably are hundreds of people in and out of that room over the course of a day - so if he thinks that is "careful" he's confused. Eating inside a restaurant is not considered a safe behavior by scientists/health experts. 

Yep.   I don't get why people say things like that.  They have been careful and they can't figure it out.  Then it starts making me panic about my chances.  And then later it comes out they went to a party, the bar, and so on.  I wonder how many of the cases in the media where they say this person is working from home and can't figure it out where they would have gotten it from, really  have some behavior like this.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Soror said:

We don't know if he even had the shot.

_______________

I'm glad I got my flu shot, it is never 100% but it will improve my odds. I had the flu last year, I'd rather not get it again.

That's the point. If he could have taken the shot and chose not to, then he might not want to whine too much. I don't take the shot, and it's on me if I get it and get it on top of something else. Most insurance will do flu shots for free and they've been BEGGING people to take it.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

Yep.   I don't get why people say things like that.  They have been careful and they can't figure it out.  Then it starts making me panic about my chances.  And then later it comes out they went to a party, the bar, and so on.  I wonder how many of the cases in the media where they say this person is working from home and can't figure it out where they would have gotten it from, really  have some behavior like this.

Yeah, agreed. That makes me want to slather my deliveries in hand sanitizer and then... restaurants?? Really??

[Lecka]

That is too bad!  I hope he will be okay.  

I have one kid who hasn't had the flu shot yet -- I have got to get that done!  

I thought he would get it with my husband, but then my husband ended up going while my son wasn't with him.  

Sigh!  

[Lecka]

26 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

and then... restaurants?? Really??

Honestly -- it may seem obvious to you, but I have only been really aware of this recently -- and within the past two weeks my husband has been angry at people not wearing masks in Wal-Mart but thought we could indoor dine, because we would not be so close to anyone.  

And my step-dad and uncle were going to coffee until recently also (the explosion in cases here has happened since November 1st -- and they have made changes) and would say -- that they weren't close to anyone.  My step-dad and uncle are in a pretty good bubble (with my mom, aunt, and an adult child) except these pesky things like going to coffee together at an indoor restaurant -- which they have stopped now, but honestly I had brought it up, both my sisters had brought it up, etc, and not everybody has that.  

[Lecka]

We don't have as good of information, somehow, and then -- people think there are more regulations than there really are -- because for a while here they took away the 6 feet apart tables and 50% occupancy, and now they have brought it back -- and it is easy to think -- well, that must be a good precaution, it is covered, because it is presented as being good.  

[Lecka]

Of course -- most recently our state's positivity rate is 15% (Oklahoma) so what we are doing is not working that well!  

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Honestly -- it may seem obvious to you, but I have only been really aware of this recently -- and within the past two weeks my husband has been angry at people not wearing masks in Wal-Mart but thought we could indoor dine, because we would not be so close to anyone.  

And my step-dad and uncle were going to coffee until recently also (the explosion in cases here has happened since November 1st -- and they have made changes) and would say -- that they weren't close to anyone.  My step-dad and uncle are in a pretty good bubble (with my mom, aunt, and an adult child) except these pesky things like going to coffee together at an indoor restaurant -- which they have stopped now, but honestly I had brought it up, both my sisters had brought it up, etc, and not everybody has that.  

Yeah, people don’t have good information, which is a shame. I’m always a bit surprised by that, because I feel like I’ve known this one since spring.

[Lecka]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, people don’t have good information, which is a shame. I’m always a bit surprised by that, because I feel like I’ve known this one since spring.

I make an effort, and did not know until a lot more recently -- there was an article in The Atlantic about it!  

I mean -- I knew a little, but I thought it was a lot less-bad compared to a lot of other things!  I thought it was basically fine.  

As somebody taking a lot of precautions but not taking all the precautions -- I thought it was a lot less risky than I do now!  

[Lecka]

And here I think it is allowed so it seems like it must be okay ------ or there is some regulation put on it, that makes it seem like -- well, they have put some regulation on it, so it is okay now with this level of regulation -- but then really, it is probably not actually that effective.  

[Lecka]

I definitely feel like -- I read the article in The Atlantic and then started saying things to my relatives -- and they seem not to have heard it elsewhere, and gotten more of a message that with tables spaced apart it was okay.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

I definitely feel like -- I read the article in The Atlantic and then started saying things to my relatives -- and they seem not to have heard it elsewhere, and gotten more of a message that with tables spaced apart it was okay.  

That’s interesting. I’ve been following on these forums, on The Atlantic, and on Slate. But I think I just have that impression from the early Korean case studies and all the clusters I’ve followed in other countries.

I tend to be good at generalizing data, though 😉 . 

[Lecka]

Hmmm, I went back to look, and the article I was thinking of is much more recent -- so I must have seen it earlier than I am remembering now.  

But -- definitely not last Spring!  

There is a lot of messaging around -- NYC takes things too far -- and a lot of it has to do with schooling and disagreement around if they should be starting in-person schooling -- but I think it makes it come across like "NYC takes things too far" like it is just not necessary.  

It's hard to explain.  

We literally have people talking about "the problems" in my town because the mayor/city council has passed mask ordinances -- it is probably hard to imagine.  

[Lecka]

I definitely thought I was fine to eat inside during the summer, if we went for late lunches when it was pretty empty -- now I think -- actually not a good idea!  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

There is a lot of messaging around -- NYC takes things too far -- and a lot of it has to do with schooling and disagreement around if they should be starting in-person schooling -- but I think it makes it come across like "NYC takes things too far" like it is just not necessary.  

Oh, I was so relieved NYC didn’t open indoor dining, I can’t tell you. I’m sad it’s open now. 

There was a lot of discussion in spring about aerosol versus droplet spread. It’s basically about whether you can be indoors or not, at the end of the day. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

Well, I guess, people think that if they are allowed to be open, then they must be safe. We have only been doing take-out and even that maybe only twice a month.  But no officials have been telling us not to eat in restaurants. So people wear masks, but they believe this is safe. 

Well, given that there isn’t forthcoming state aid, it’s not in their interest to tell you not to patronize businesses...

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

Of course -- most recently our state's positivity rate is 15% (Oklahoma) so what we are doing is not working that well!  

What are we doing here in OK? Not much that I can see. Oh wait the Governor did proclaim  a  day of prayer and fasting. But refuses to do a mask mandate. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Scarlett

[MEmama]

51 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

What are we doing here in OK? Not much that I can see. Oh wait the Governor did program a  day of prayer and fasting. But refuses to do a mask mandate. 

My in laws live in OK and they insist “life is back to normal thank god”. “Back” from what, I’m not sure, since I don’t think the state ever actually locked down? They can’t understand why DH doesn’t “get” to go back to the office, or why DS doesn’t “get” to go to school (ummm, he is in school—just from home!). MIL was appalled that we didn’t go out to dinner for a recent birthday—didn’t we want to do something fun? Grrrrr!!!!!!

Sure hope all that prayer and fasting (?!) works. /s

Edited December 1, 2020 by MEmama

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

My in laws live in OK and they insist “life is back to normal thank god”. “Back” from what, I’m not sure, since I don’t think the state ever actually locked down? They can’t understand that DH doesn’t “get” to go back to the office, or that DS doesn’t “get” to go to school (ummm, he is in school—just from home!). MIL was appalled that we didn’t go out to dinner for a recent birthday—didn’t we want to do something fun? Grrrrr!!!!!!

Sure hope all that prayer and fasting (?!) works. /s

6257 new cases Sat. The denial is real here. 

[MEmama]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

6257 new cases Sat. The denial is real here. 

WHOA!! 😞

Maine has ~1/3 the population of OK and we are seeing around around 240 cases per day right now. Up from 20ish per day over the summer. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, MEmama said:

WHOA!! 😞

Maine has ~1/3 the population of OK and we are seeing around around 240 cases per day right now. Up from 20ish per day over the summer. 

Today was 1700 new cases.  It is crazy here. 

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Today was 1700 new cases.  It is crazy here. 

I hope you are staying safe, Scarlett and all OK friends! 

[Scarlett]

58 minutes ago, MEmama said:

I hope you are staying safe, Scarlett and all OK friends! 

We now require masks to enter our building at work. Dh is also masking at work. We have my parents at my house because of their accident and I am taking them to 4-6 appointments a week . But besides that and work we are avoiding people. 

[Scarlett]

35 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I guess I just don't understand your patronizing attitude. The people on this board are extraordinarily well-informed. The majority of citizens are not. I can understand why they think dining with social distancing is ok.  I know it is not, but I am on this board. I do not look down and think, "Those poor idiots." for those who do.  That was my only point.

I don’t think they are idiots. But I think they could inform and educate themselves just like we are doing 

[Lecka]

Well, the mask mandates are issues here.  Our town has one and a lot of people were angry, and there were people at tables at intersections all summer, collecting signatures to recall the mayor and all the city council who voted in favor of the mask mandate.

I have to say — I think that is willfully ignorant.

But I don’t think the indoor dining is willfully ignorant.

There is so much emphasis on masking, and then — I think there are some gray areas (maybe they shouldn’t be, but they are) because we don’t really move on from the whole mask thing.

 

[Lecka]

I think there are also people who are just busy taking care of the basics of their lives who don’t have time to deal with researching and keeping up with this stuff — but there are also people who I think are going out of their way to be willfully ignorant.  I think that is a thing here.  
 

 

[Kanin]

Well, this discussion really brings home the point that clear, national messaging was needed from the start, but didn't happen. Everyone needs to be on the same page, being honest and upfront about all the risks and how risky they are. For example, local news anchors in every town could go over the same basic information night after night. It could be in the newspaper every day. There could be informational posters in every business window. But no. It's really terribly sad that messaging was bungled so spectacularly.

We all have our opinions about WHY it was bungled. I'm just bummed that there are basic facts about the virus that all American should know, but don't.

[easypeasy]

For clarification - the only places they were going to eat are restaurants that have been making every effort to be as safe as possible. These places hauled out most of their tables, they have installed plexiglass, they have updated their air filtration systems, they restrict how many people can be in the building, they check symptoms at the door, masks are required, they offer pickup service, etc! I follow many of them on social media myself and these are the places I'll order takeout from. They (and every other patron of the place) wears a mask unless they are actively dining. DHs friend actually orders beforehand and they just walk in, sit down, and eat their meal.

Both of them work very long hours and have three very young children who are all at home all day, online schooling, and a young teenager at home. They stayed home 100% of the time for months and months and months. Eventually, they felt that eating at these specific restaurants was safe enough and they wanted/needed to have a half hour away from their children without just eating in their car. They were already in "maintenance" type marital counseling before the pandemic hit and eating out at restaurants s one of their big common "happy place" things to do.

He'll hear zero judgment from me!!! ALL of this sucks - for everyone - in a million different ways! He's no idiot - but just made an educated decision balancing mental welfare against physical and lost the bet.

And - yes - omg, yes - we needed a national standard bearer so that everyone could get their information from a trusted, unified source. How easy that would have made things (comparatively)!!!

And it's a reminder that I need to get that flu shot ASAP. 😶

Edited December 1, 2020 by easypeasy

[Innisfree]

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

I definitely thought I was fine to eat inside during the summer, if we went for late lunches when it was pretty empty -- now I think -- actually not a good idea!  

 

4 hours ago, Choirfarm3 said:

Well, I guess, people think that if they are allowed to be open, then they must be safe

I think this demonstrates how much damage the lack of a coherent, consistent message has done throughout the pandemic. It really isn't surprising that people got the idea that indoor dining was safe, for example, or got mixed up messages in other ways.

There's confusion between measures designed to prevent large-scale spread of the virus, like reducing capacity in restaurants and stores, and measures which promote personal safety, like staying home pretty much entirely, and wearing a mask if you have to dash into the store occasionally.

Since we know (and truthfully have known for most of the pandemic, though some individuals  were reluctant to acknowledge the fact, and others never got reliable information) that the virus spreads through the air, sitting in a restaurant for an hour, without a mask on, isn't safe.

But the restaurants were allowed to stay open because the economic toll they would face if they closed was too devastating. It's a trade-off between allowing low-level spread, in order to prevent high-level economic impact. But because that wasn't clearly spelled out, people assumed that dining in restaurants at, say, fifty percent capacity must be deemed safe. But individual safety was never the point of that guideline; reducing, not eliminating, the spread was.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Innisfree

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I guess I just don't understand your patronizing attitude. The people on this board are extraordinarily well-informed. The majority of citizens are not. I can understand why they think dining with social distancing is ok.  I know it is not, but I am on this board. I do not look down and think, "Those poor idiots." for those who do.  That was my only point.

Huh? I’m not patronizing anyone. I’m just explaining why state officials aren’t being honest. But there have been plenty of news stories about it. I’m a little surprised anyone isn’t aware of this by now. 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I guess I just don't understand your patronizing attitude. The people on this board are extraordinarily well-informed. The majority of citizens are not. I can understand why they think dining with social distancing is ok.  I know it is not, but I am on this board. I do not look down and think, "Those poor idiots." for those who do.  That was my only point.

some people like @Not_a_Numberhave been doing a lot of hard work to understand how the pandemic works and hence they are well informed. Many others are going about their lives with very minimal changes to how they used to live and then there is all around surprise when death rates climb up because these people think that someone is "making them" wear a mask, "making them" stay at home, "making them" line up outside grocery stores, "taking away" their fun Disneyland trip etc. So, whose fault is it that in this day of smart phones, social media and 24x7 news media that people do not understand that a contagious respiratory virus is circulating and we can die from asymptomatic transmission. Just a 20 second googling on the smart phones of these people should suffice. Nobody is patronizing (I disagree with you), just hugely disappointed that anyone who knows that a quarter million people have died has not stopped to think about why this is happening.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

None in our papers.

I guess I don’t read local papers, so I don’t know about that. And I don’t listen to any TV coverage. All the online news I read have had info about it, though. 

What news do you follow?

I apologize for sounding patronizing. That really wasn’t my intention — I just think state officials have perverse incentives right now, alas.

[MEmama]

8 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

None in our papers.

Your local papers haven’t mentioned Covid at all in 8+ months? 

No case numbers, no mention of school closures, no photos of people in masks, no coverage of NYC in the spring (or Italy before that), no anti mask rallies, not a single letter to the editor...nothing? 

I’m totally not picking on you, I’m just...incredulous that anyone can live in the US—or anywhere on the entire planet—and not have heard the basics about Covid.  

[mathnerd]

15 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

None in our papers.

If it is OK with you, please post what state you live in and I would like to spend a few minutes checking what the local newspapers are saying about Covid, school closures, death rates etc.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Your local papers haven’t mentioned Covid at all in 8+ months? 

No case numbers, no mention of school closures, no photos of people in masks, no coverage of NYC in the spring (or Italy before that), no anti mask rallies, not a single letter to the editor...nothing? 

I’m totally not picking on you, I’m just...incredulous that anyone can live in the US—or anywhere on the entire planet—and not have heard the basics about Covid.  

I would guess she means no mention of the dangers of indoor dining?

[Halftime Hope]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

WHOA!! 😞

Maine has ~1/3 the population of OK and we are seeing around around 240 cases per day right now. Up from 20ish per day over the summer. 

I have to say though, that the general nature of Maine-ers, like Swedes, is quite a bit more solitary than Oklahomans.  Really, the numbers point out that the community spread in OK has been going on for some time. 

[Scarlett]

40 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

Sent you a pm. Not comfortable putting it out there.

I am curious too. In the small town I live in I noticed several articles raving about how great our town is doing. Focusing on recoveries and low deaths and schools being opened. That was a few months back. I remember thinking how they were trying to downplay how serious this all is. 
 

I guess there are some people who only get their news from there. People like my sister in Houston, who do not want to think about it or talk about it because it is too depressing. Denial.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Scarlett

[MEmama]

7 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

No, they haven't posted about the dangers of indoor dining. Not in my small town.

Ah, good, I misunderstood. 

I do find it strange that people think it’s safe to eat in a public, indoor environment when it’s well known that covid spreads through the air. Doesn’t seem hard to put together. But at least your local paper isn’t totally ignoring the pandemic! 

[MEmama]

7 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

I have to say though, that the general nature of Maine-ers, like Swedes, is quite a bit more solitary than Oklahomans.  Really, the numbers point out that the community spread in OK has been going on for some time. 

Not just solitary, but communitarian minded. Absolutely. 🙂 

[Kanin]

I don't think my local paper has anything about the dangers of indoor dining. I guess it's just my fear of catching/spreading the virus that keeps me from indoor dining, even if nobody's telling me it's dangerous. 

My local and local-ish papers report new cases, deaths, hospitalizations. They always mention school closures. If one only read local news, they wouldn't realize that the pandemic is really ranging other places, since Maine "only" has 200 or so cases a day now (side note, it was in the 20s and 30s in the summer, so I think 200 is alarming, but many don't). I like to think that a global pandemic, with school closures, mask ordinances, etc. would prompt many otherwise news-avoiding people to do a bit of Googling. But who knows. I can't really imagine my life without lots of news.

[Halftime Hope]

This thread seems to be a bit all over the place, but since you mentioned a single trustworthy source with a unified message:  one of the biggest disappointments in my life, one which has made my cynicism with the medical establishment 10 times worse than it already was, and it was BAD before, is listening to the CDC, Fauci and crew, and JAMA.  (Omg, don't get me started on the politicization -- is that a word? -- of medicine!)  

Who I've come to trust are the doctors who are obviously practicing the art and science of medicine.  The independent voices who are having success treating patients. The voices of logic and reason and "do no harm" and "let's talk about the studies and pre-prints."    And we've hit the point that even these docs are begging for the administrative medical circles to think, to listen, and to start spreading the word about treating people early on.  Yes, after 10 months, we have the Holy Grail of data to back it up.

I don't know what I'd have done without those voices, because what I'm hearing from media and the COVID task force amounts to propaganda and lies.  When even I can tell you the bureaucrats are wrong -- here's looking at you, Fauci and Birx -- we are in deep, deep doodoo. 

And the sad part is that nearly everyone in my large circle of acquaintances/customers/clients is 50 and above, and most of them, especially the older ones, are getting their information from the nightly news; what I listen to is too biochem/medicalese-heavy for your regular person.  God help them, the news has had them tied in knots for months. 

Sigh. 

 

 

[RootAnn]

My local, small town (really, county) newspaper doesn't cover big things like Covid other th asdn how it affects life here. So, articles on how in person school is changing, how attendance at sports events is curtailed to only a certain number of close relatives per player, when & how to get tested in our community, pleas from local health providers to wear a mask when you are going about your business & just this last week, a tiny paragraph about our local mayor instituting a mask mandate (with 15 exceptions).

Definitely nothing about how indoor dining isn't safe, especially at the places where the servers/employees don't wear masks at all.

My state's governor told municipalities they could not issue their own mask mandate. He also threatened to withhold state funding if courthouses required masks to enter. Once the two big cities defied the governor & issued mask mandates, some of the other towns& small cities followed--albeit very recently. This is the state that has moved to Do Your Own Contract Tracing because the backlog is too big with the increase in cases. 

ETA: I should mention that our local county paper is printed weekly.

Edited December 1, 2020 by RootAnn
Edited to add county paper printed weekly