Covid experts: brain fog

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

You guys are better than Google.

Covid brain fog.  I know it’s a thing.  Are there studies yet on why or how long or anything to do?

I’m struggling. Beyond struggling.  I spent three hours today writing two paragraphs of a paper that was due last week.  Complicated things just don’t make sense to me right now. I dropped one class but will fall below the completion threshold and lose my scholarship if I drop this one.

I still don’t have a sense of smell and am dealing with this horrid depression and anxiety.  I suspect I’m dealing with lingering Covid neuro symptoms but no one has answers.

[Carol in Cal.]

I know a pastor who had this and it persisted for several months after his physical symptoms had abated.  The abeyance of it was gradual, and I believe that he consulted others to make sure he was right when he thought he was getting better, because he was concerned that wishful thinking was making him think he was beyond this when he really wasn’t.

I’m very sorry you are going through this.  I think it would make sense to contact the university and scholarship folks and explain the situation and see if there is a Covid related relief that would let you withdraw for a while but keep the student spot and the scholarship.

[prairiewindmomma]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-we-know-so-far-about-how-covid-affects-the-nervous-system/

brief summary: study wanted to look at the mechanism of how the virus affected the brain, so focused on whether virus could invade sensory and motor neurons (seems likely) but infilitration could also be explained by ace-2 receptors and/or NRP-1 which also interact with nervous system 

[Not_a_Number]

Oh, I am so sorry you're going through this 😞 . 

Unfortunately, I had the impression that it really varies for people. The advice I've seen the most often is to be gentle with yourself and not to try to push yourself through it and let your body heal. 

[prairiewindmomma]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/acn3.51210
 

Focus of study is on hospitalized patients, and shows most have neurological symptoms. % of what type of symptoms is listed in introduction.
 

Other articles I have read focused on the elderly. They are more prone to have symptoms.

Unfortunately what I have been reading points to weeks to months of issues. 😞 

[prairiewindmomma]

Brain fog and mood issues are pretty well known and discussed in the autoimmune world because those diseases are inflammatory in nature.

 

Do you function better if you have something read to you or if you dictate aloud (reducing the complexity of the processing)?

[Alicia64]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through: brain fog is awful.

Is there any way to talk to the powers-that-be and explain your situation? I can't imagine that they'll say, "whatever." The lingering problems are real and we all get it.

Wendy

Edited November 18, 2020 by Alicia64
spelling

[ktgrok]

Maybe try an NSAID, with  the approval of your doctor?

[BeachGal]

5 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

You guys are better than Google.

Covid brain fog.  I know it’s a thing.  Are there studies yet on why or how long or anything to do?

I’m struggling. Beyond struggling.  I spent three hours today writing two paragraphs of a paper that was due last week.  Complicated things just don’t make sense to me right now. I dropped one class but will fall below the completion threshold and lose my scholarship if I drop this one.

I still don’t have a sense of smell and am dealing with this horrid depression and anxiety.  I suspect I’m dealing with lingering Covid neuro symptoms but no one has answers.

The thinking is that Covid is causing NAD+ depletion. NAD stands for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. NAD+ is a form of NAD. Here’s an explanation of what it is and what it does:

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2020/11/11/what-is-nad-and-why-is-it-important/

 

This article discusses NAD+ depletion in more depth and what you can do to build it back up.

https://nkalex.medium.com/the-team-of-front-line-doctors-and-biohackers-who-seem-to-have-solved-long-covid-5f9852f1101d

Simply, their theory is that COVID19 causes NAD+ depletion. Some people with vitamin deficiencies, existing NAD+ depletion or genetic deficiets in energy metabolism have long term NAD+ dysfunction. The body tries to make up for low NAD+ by feeding in tryptophan, which is the precursor for serotonin, causing low serotonin. Mast cells are activated locally to release serotonin instead, leading to histamine release and mast cell activation issues. Neurological effects are due to low serotonin and NAD+, which also effects the microbiome and general homoeostasis. Energy disruptions are specific to high metabolically active tissues such as the heart and brain. This is further complexed with disruption of the gut-immune axis, mobilization of bacteria, secondary infections - both bacterial and reactivation of dormant neurotrophic viruses. Reactivation of dormant Epstein-Bar virus can open the door to bacterial infections and it is known to trigger the creation of complex and unrelated auto-antibodies, leading to downstream issues.

The group treating this mechanism utilizes:
Nicotinic acid (most important and not nicotinamide or other forms)
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Zinc
Selenium
Quercetin

 

Are you taking any of the above supplements? The nicotinic acid corrects the NAD+ deficiency, so you might want to give that a try (50 mg of nicotinic acid) as well as the others if you’re not taking them.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, BeachGal said:

The thinking is that Covid is causing NAD+ depletion. NAD stands for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. NAD+ is a form of NAD. Here’s an explanation of what it is and what it does:

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2020/11/11/what-is-nad-and-why-is-it-important/

 

This article discusses NAD+ depletion in more depth and what you can do to build it back up.

https://nkalex.medium.com/the-team-of-front-line-doctors-and-biohackers-who-seem-to-have-solved-long-covid-5f9852f1101d

Simply, their theory is that COVID19 causes NAD+ depletion. Some people with vitamin deficiencies, existing NAD+ depletion or genetic deficiets in energy metabolism have long term NAD+ dysfunction. The body tries to make up for low NAD+ by feeding in tryptophan, which is the precursor for serotonin, causing low serotonin. 

The group treating this mechanism utilizes:
Nicotinic acid (most important and not nicotinamide or other forms)
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Zinc
Selenium
Quercetin

 

Hmm..off to read if NAD+ is related to other types of brain fog, might be impacted in PANDAS/ADHD/SAD, etc. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I take vitamins c and D and zinc, but not the others. Thanks. I’ll look into getting those.

My university is rather unhelpful.  I will be glad to graduate and be done with it.  They are not bending the rules and also tell me I wouldn’t be eligible for student loans if I fall below a 66% completion rate.

[wintermom]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

My university is rather unhelpful.  I will be glad to graduate and be done with it.  They are not bending the rules and also tell me I wouldn’t be eligible for student loans if I fall below a 66% completion rate.

That's too bad. Can you communicate with your individual prof and explain the situation? Perhaps you can get an extension on the assignments or something. If it's something in their control, many profs are extremely helpful. They just can't do administration stuff. 

Brain fog and not being able to concentrate is so tough, and there are so many factors that can cause this. Are you getting good sleep? Is stress being addressed somehow?  Big hugs. Menopause, lack of sleep and stress are the main causes of brain fog in my life, and sometimes I'll write a paragraph for an assignment and not even be able to understand what I wrote later on. "Where was my brain when I thought that made sense?" 🙄

Edited November 18, 2020 by wintermom

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Brain fog and not being able to concentrate is so tough, and there are so many factors that can cause this. Are you getting good sleep? Is stress being addressed somehow?  Big hugs. Menopause, lack of sleep and stress are the main causes of brain fog in my life, and sometimes I'll write a paragraph for an assignment and not even be able to understand what I wrote later on. "Where was my brain when I thought that made sense?" 🙄

I think brain fog is VERY typical with COVID. She doesn’t need to look for more reasons.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

18 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think brain fog is VERY typical with COVID. She doesn’t need to look for more reason

28 minutes ago, wintermom said:

That's too bad. Can you communicate with your individual prof and explain the situation? Perhaps you can get an extension on the assignments or something. If it's something in their control, many profs are extremely helpful. They just can't do administration stuff. 

Brain fog and not being able to concentrate is so tough, and there are so many factors that can cause this. Are you getting good sleep? Is stress being addressed somehow?  Big hugs. Menopause, lack of sleep and stress are the main causes of brain fog in my life, and sometimes I'll write a paragraph for an assignment and not even be able to understand what I wrote later on. "Where was my brain when I thought that made sense?" 🙄

No menopause lol.  I am sleeping so much it’s a problem, but I am still so fatigued.

I can’t think of any ways to reduce the stress I’m under. 

[BeachGal]

The long haulers who have had success with this notice their brain fog, sleepiness, fatigue, etc. abate or go away completely within a couple of days, especially after taking the nicotinic acid. You might have trouble finding 50 gram supplements but 100 mg seems to not cause problems. Some people have been dividing their supplements to get the smaller dose.

Get a quercetin supplement that also has bromelain; however, if you have either a history of ulcers or are allergic to pineapple, take only quercetin. I take the Now brand of both, just one capsule.

Selenium, no more than 200 mcg.

Zinc, around 50 mg.

[cjzimmer1]

3 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I take vitamins c and D and zinc, but not the others. Thanks. I’ll look into getting those.

My university is rather unhelpful.  I will be glad to graduate and be done with it.  They are not bending the rules and also tell me I wouldn’t be eligible for student loans if I fall below a 66% completion rate.

I'm sorry your university so so unhelpful.  I'm really surprised they don't have some kind of medical waiver/deferment.  I remember needing my gallbladder removed when I was in college.  It was only suppose to be an overnight stay and I was expected to return in a few days.  I let all my profs know that I was scheduled for surgery and they all granted me a medical waiver.  Complications kept me in the hospital for 6 days and I wasn't able to return for the rest of the semester.  I just let them know when I was able and they all worked with me to get make up work done when I was able.  Mine was a small school so that may have been part of it but I never talked to administration, I worked directly with each of my profs. 

It's not like this is something you have any control over.  I'd say push harder with the school, but at this point, I'm not sure if that's more work for you than just doing the work of the class.  I sure hope you can find a solution.

Edited November 18, 2020 by cjzimmer1

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

No menopause lol.  I am sleeping so much it’s a problem, but I am still so fatigued.

I can’t think of any ways to reduce the stress I’m under. 

Sounds like these symptoms are similar to sleep apnea, as well. Are you having breathing trouble at night? Maybe due to covid symptoms as well. 

BTW, I'm not trying to be annoying. Yes, you have covid and I'm not a dr. I'm just brainstorming other things. Feel free to ignore.

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I take vitamins c and D and zinc, but not the others. Thanks. I’ll look into getting those.

My university is rather unhelpful.  I will be glad to graduate and be done with it.  They are not bending the rules and also tell me I wouldn’t be eligible for student loans if I fall below a 66% completion rate.

I wonder if you can complain to anyone to get accommodations?? This is SUCH a well-documented problem with COVID, and you're a healthcare worker -- it's not like you brought this on yourself! Who have you talked to? 

[YaelAldrich]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I wonder if you can complain to anyone to get accommodations?? This is SUCH a well-documented problem with COVID, and you're a healthcare worker -- it's not like you brought this on yourself! Who have you talked to? 

I would ask your doctors for detailed explanations of your symptoms to give to your advisor and Dean if need be. Can your husband make these calls or emails for you? This should be covered under a medical leave just like any medical ailment.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, YaelAldrich said:

I would ask your doctors for detailed explanations of your symptoms to give to your advisor and Dean if need be. Can your husband make these calls or emails for you? This should be covered under a medical leave just like any medical ailment.

I agree. This is worth taking up the chain and having someone advocate for you (since I expect it's hard to advocate for yourself with brain fog.) 

One of DH's coworkers at Columbia had to step down from an administrative position due to brain fog after COVID 😕 . It's sadly quite common. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

I highly recommend the Body Politic forum as a long-COVID support group.  (The answers here are great too!)

[Not_a_Number]

18 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I highly recommend the Body Politic forum as a long-COVID support group.  (The answers here are great too!)

Do you know how long brain fog lasts, on average? (I should have tagged you for this!) 

[Alicia64]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I agree. This is worth taking up the chain and having someone advocate for you (since I expect it's hard to advocate for yourself with brain fog.) 

One of DH's coworkers at Columbia had to step down from an administrative position due to brain fog after COVID 😕 . It's sadly quite common. 

Go to the media. The University won't want look uncaring. (Even though that's what's happening.)

W.

[J-rap]

Mrs. Tiggywinkle, how long ago did you have Covid?  Just curious.  My dd has Covid now and has a lot of brain fog.  She's just beginning that journey...

[J-rap]

18 hours ago, BeachGal said:

The thinking is that Covid is causing NAD+ depletion. NAD stands for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. NAD+ is a form of NAD. Here’s an explanation of what it is and what it does:

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2020/11/11/what-is-nad-and-why-is-it-important/

 

This article discusses NAD+ depletion in more depth and what you can do to build it back up.

https://nkalex.medium.com/the-team-of-front-line-doctors-and-biohackers-who-seem-to-have-solved-long-covid-5f9852f1101d

Simply, their theory is that COVID19 causes NAD+ depletion. Some people with vitamin deficiencies, existing NAD+ depletion or genetic deficiets in energy metabolism have long term NAD+ dysfunction. The body tries to make up for low NAD+ by feeding in tryptophan, which is the precursor for serotonin, causing low serotonin. Mast cells are activated locally to release serotonin instead, leading to histamine release and mast cell activation issues. Neurological effects are due to low serotonin and NAD+, which also effects the microbiome and general homoeostasis. Energy disruptions are specific to high metabolically active tissues such as the heart and brain. This is further complexed with disruption of the gut-immune axis, mobilization of bacteria, secondary infections - both bacterial and reactivation of dormant neurotrophic viruses. Reactivation of dormant Epstein-Bar virus can open the door to bacterial infections and it is known to trigger the creation of complex and unrelated auto-antibodies, leading to downstream issues.

The group treating this mechanism utilizes:
Nicotinic acid (most important and not nicotinamide or other forms)
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Zinc
Selenium
Quercetin

 

Are you taking any of the above supplements? The nicotinic acid corrects the NAD+ deficiency, so you might want to give that a try (50 mg of nicotinic acid) as well as the others if you’re not taking them.

Is there a specific type of vitamin C that you recommend?  In some research my ds has done, he's heard lypo-spheric vitamin C is good, but I know nothing about this!

[Lawyer&Mom]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Do you know how long brain fog lasts, on average? (I should have tagged you for this!) 

I don’t.  People have slowly improved, and symptoms can come and go.  (I’m getting new neuro symptoms at nine months, but I’m also doing much better overall, including cognitively.  It’s a strange beast.)

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I don’t.  People have slowly improved, and symptoms can come and go.  (I’m getting new neuro symptoms at nine months, but I’m also doing much better overall, including cognitively.  It’s a strange beast.)

I'm sorry you're getting new symptoms, but I'm glad you're much better overall. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

46 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm sorry you're getting new symptoms, but I'm glad you're much better overall. 

Thanks!  I’m 50 pounds lighter now and eating super clean. When I feel good I feel really good.  Sometimes I don’t feel sick, I just have these strange symptoms that are happening to me?  If it doesn’t get worse, I could do this for a long time. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

4 hours ago, Alicia64 said:

Go to the media. The University won't want look uncaring. (Even though that's what's happening.)

W.

Well. It’s Liberty University and they don’t care about uncaring media. 😂🤣.   I hate how they handle advising and financial aid, because you don’t actually have an advisor, just whoever you talk too.

My professor is very sweet and has given me extensions.  I just worry this isn’t going to get better soon.  

[BeachGal]

3 hours ago, J-rap said:

Is there a specific type of vitamin C that you recommend?  In some research my ds has done, he's heard lypo-spheric vitamin C is good, but I know nothing about this!

After the pandemic began when little was known about the virus, I made my own liposomal vitamin C mixture. It's pretty easy. Takes about a day because you have to mix it every two hours or so in a blender until it gets good and gloppy. It's basically ascorbic acid, lecithin, distilled water and vodka. 🙂 However, a gram or so 2 or 3 times per day of regular old vitamin C should be okay.

China is giving patients high doses of IV C. We won't do that here in the US. I don't know why. It has been shown to help prevent cytokine storm in two studies, one done using adults, the other with children.

[BeachGal]

4 minutes ago, Plum said:

Worth a shot. Thanks. 

Seriously. It's just niacin. On the long-haulers board I follow, people who' had post Covid symptoms for many months said that by days 2 or 3 after taking the niacin they felt back to normal. Definitely worth a try.

[Alicia64]

13 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Well. It’s Liberty University and they don’t care about uncaring media. 😂🤣.   I hate how they handle advising and financial aid, because you don’t actually have an advisor, just whoever you talk too.

My professor is very sweet and has given me extensions.  I just worry this isn’t going to get better soon.  

That's funny. I agree w/ you re: Liberty.

I'm so sorry about the brain fog. I've had it and it's not fun (it really impacts your whole life). I have friends who've had it, if I can get good info out of them I'll report back.

W.

[Tree Frog]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:33 AM, BeachGal said:

Zinc, around 50 mg

Does it matter if it's in lozenge or pill form? I purchased lozenges thinking they were best, but they upset my stomach.

[BeachGal]

42 minutes ago, Wilrunner3 said:

Does it matter if it's in lozenge or pill form? I purchased lozenges thinking they were best, but they upset my stomach.

Lozenges would be slightly better because the zinc would be in the vicinity of your nose and mouth where the virus will likely enter. Zinc is an antimicrobial and also helps prevent viral replication. Life Extension’s enhanced zinc lozenges are supposed to be good.

If you tolerate a pill better, just take that. Zinc picolinate is a good choice.

[Pen]

50 minutes ago, Wilrunner3 said:

Does it matter if it's in lozenge or pill form? I purchased lozenges thinking they were best, but they upset my stomach.

I get nausea from zinc.

I have some lozenges for immediate use if I think I have had an exposure in order to possibly have some direct zinc deactivation of virus effect.

However, I usually take it as a swallowable pill, along with food (which may decrease absorption, but helps nausea) and usually in smaller doses at a time (such as 15mg 2-3x/daily much more tolerable than a single larger dose) along with a zinc ionophore like Quercitin.

if taking zinc daily long term it needs to be balanced with copper ~ 15:1 zinc:copper 

 

(to best of my personal knowledge at this time, which develops as I learn more, this is not medical advice) 

[Tree Frog]

19 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Lozenges would be slightly better because the zinc would be in the vicinity of your nose and mouth where the virus will likely enter. Zinc is an antimicrobial and also helps prevent viral replication. Life Extension’s enhanced zinc lozenges are supposed to be good.

If you tolerate a pill better, just take that. Zinc picolinate is a good choice.

 

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

I get nausea from zinc.

I have some lozenges for immediate use if I think I have had an exposure in order to possibly have some direct zinc deactivation of virus effect.

However, I usually take it as a swallowable pill, along with food (which may decrease absorption, but helps nausea) and usually in smaller doses at a time (such as 15mg 2-3x/daily much more tolerable than a single larger dose) along with a zinc ionophore like Quercitin.

if taking zinc daily long term it needs to be balanced with copper ~ 15:1 zinc:copper 

 

(to best of my personal knowledge at this time, which develops as I learn more, this is not medical advice) 

Thank you!

[Laura Corin]

This article on Long Covid symptoms is worth reading if you are given a treatment plan:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/19/long-covid-overlap-emerges-with-me-including-debate-over-treatment

[Laura Corin]

An interesting item on BBC SOUNDS. The app is available worldwide now, I think. They interviewed an epidemiology professor who has specialised for the past 25 years in respiratory diseases.

The interviewer asked about her lingering multiple post Covid symptoms   He likened Covid to a car crash that damages multiple organs. The hospital might patch you up, but it will take a long time for your body to repair itself. And recovery won't be complete for some people. The interviewer said that this analogy helped her to be at peace with the process and to explain it to others.

The programme is called The Long Tail - My Coronavirus Recovery, and he speaks at minutes 17 and 23.

[Carol in Cal.]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:15 PM, BeachGal said:

After the pandemic began when little was known about the virus, I made my own liposomal vitamin C mixture. It's pretty easy. Takes about a day because you have to mix it every two hours or so in a blender until it gets good and gloppy. It's basically ascorbic acid, lecithin, distilled water and vodka. 🙂 However, a gram or so 2 or 3 times per day of regular old vitamin C should be okay.

China is giving patients high doses of IV C. We won't do that here in the US. I don't know why. It has been shown to help prevent cytokine storm in two studies, one done using adults, the other with children.

There are naturopathic doctors that do this.  It would be worth calling around for it.  I have mine in mind already, just in case.

[Acadie]

I wonder if it might help to add melatonin when you go to sleep, since it's been used in treatment and preventive protocols for Covid, and also for insomnia and easing symptoms of dementia. 

Anyone else have thoughts or info on melatonin for Covid recovery?