Would these things be of concern?

[Janeway]

First, not every concern I post is my own, but usually do apply to my own children unless I say otherwise.

1) If your child were gossiped about, and you(as in, the guy complained about the parents, even though the parents barely ever saw the guy and were nice when they did see him) were too, but someone in high school, someone your child used to be friends with and then turned rude,  and then student  (meaning your child might be bothered) that that same person is attending the same smaller college (less than 3000 people, but only about 600 as freshmen) and all freshmen live on campus?

2) if your child's stats (SAT scores, etc) were above the 75th percentile for the small college (much smaller college than in number 1) in every area?

[chiguirre]

1. yes

2. no

That's just my opinion based on what you wrote, but I'm a rando on the internet, so make your own judgment call.

[almondbutterandjelly]

1.  Depends

2.  No.  I actually would like that.  My dd likes to be a big fish in a little pond.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

1. yes

2. no

That's just my opinion based on what you wrote, but I'm a rando on the internet, so make your own judgment call.

do you mean first one would bother you and the second one wouldn’t? 
 

I wouldn’t make a decision over a college based on one person I disliked even if the place is small.

On a second note, being in the 75% can bring its advantages. However I attended a small college where my stats were much higher and I regret it. School was ridiculously easy for me and no amazing opportunities presented. They just weren’t there. If it had been a large school, maybe my experience would have been different. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Roadrunner

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

do you mean first one would bother you and the second one wouldn’t? 
 

I wouldn’t make a decision over a college based on one person I disliked even if the place is small.

On a second note, being in the 75% can bring its advantages. However I attended a small college where my stats were much higher and I regret it. School was ridiculously easy for me and no amazing opportunities presented. They just weren’t there. If it had been a large school, maybe my experience would have been different. 

Since son is wanting to switch to a small liberal arts school close to us, which he should make the decision and I should be fine with it, but his stats are more than above the 75th percentile in every area. But I know stats are not everything. There is another school, twice the size, further away, with way higher stats, that he also got in to, that also has a great program for what he wants, but I am hesitant to suggest he at least consider calling to see if he could still have his scholarship and such to go there, because that one boy is there. Of course, he only heard second hand that the boy was gossiping, but of course, no one hears about gossip about themselves first hand. There are only 600 kids in the freshman class so it is not like they would both just get lost in the crowd and not notice each other. Meanwhile, I am very concerned about this big switch to the quite close by liberal arts school with stats all below his. 

[Terabith]

I thought he had a full ride to a school?  Why wouldn't he go to the place he could go for free?

[Janeway]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

I thought he had a full ride to a school?  Why wouldn't he go to the place he could go for free?

He had full ride to every single school he applied to except one. That one is the one he accepted. He accepted that one because of the honors program and his initial desire to focus on things like philosophy. Now that he wishes to do computer science instead, and regardless of any sort of ranking at that school, it has come out that it is not such a good program for computer science. The university is supposed to be great at a lot of things, just not computer science. Of the remaining schools, he just wants to go to the one closest to home. He actually never had the chance to visit three of the remaining schools. But he had full offers at all the other schools. (he has an outside scholarship that he can bring in to each school on top of their inside scholarships and the university gave the smallest scholarship and costs the most, which means the outside scholarship did not cover as much as it did for the rest, all other schools gave full tuition and fees or more, so the outside scholarship was enough to cover the rest).

 

edited to add: I may be overthinking it, but when I go back and tell certain family members about his decision to switch schools, they really get upset with me. My older sister tells me what a mistake this is. He will be miserable. He won't be challenged at all, Baylor is a great opportunity with the honors program and all so he just needs to go there, ignore what has been said about the computer science program (it has been consistently said about the computer science program, as we have spoken to many other students and parents who have kids at Baylor right now, and we spoke with the first computer science professor and there is a bit of an agreement about the situation there with that subject). Whenever I speak to family about this, I leave feeling like doom is happening with regards to this whole college thing. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Janeway

[Lanny]

I believe that he should be with other students that are high achievers. The courses will be taught to the level of the students and if the students are mediocre (not the correct word but it will do) then the level of the courses will also be mediocre.  One should do the hardest things they are capable of doing and if the other students are much more average, he won't have that opportunity.

Try to ignore any comments from your family/friends about him deciding to unenroll from Baylor.

[Janeway]

44 minutes ago, Lanny said:

I believe that he should be with other students that are high achievers. The courses will be taught to the level of the students and if the students are mediocre (not the correct word but it will do) then the level of the courses will also be mediocre.  One should do the hardest things they are capable of doing and if the other students are much more average, he won't have that opportunity.

Try to ignore any comments from your family/friends about him deciding to unenroll from Baylor.

Do you think it is bad that we are allowing him to enroll in a close by liberal arts school, that has a great computer science department, but overall, his stats are way above? My thought was if he is that unhappy, he can leave/transfer after the first year.  My line of thinking was, it is free, and he will get his feet wet with college and get a year behind him. But my family members thoughts are, we should ignore what other people, who are currently at Baylor and in computer science or in University Scholars, have had to say about the computer science department because Baylor "ranks well" so it is fine.  Personally, I think rankings on websites only look at superficial things like money spent in the department. They are not looking at things like 200 students start as freshmen as computer science but only about 30 or so students graduate in it each year. That there are two professors who routinely flunk students the first time through. That even the most astute students (National Merit Scholars, etc) say there are at least 1-2 classes they had to retake. The main prof who is in charge of the freshman classes relies on TAs to do a lot of the work but then does not grade according to how the TAs do things and blows off students who try to talk to him. I saw these things in reviews about this prof and heard it directly from current students and parents. I heard from two people whose kids were in computer science and found it too brutal and went to electrical engineering instead and find it to be way better. Everyone who has been in the situation says if you want to do computer science, Baylor is not the place to be. 

So if he is switching schools, we have to either go with a gap year, take classes at the community college, or switch to one of the schools where son already applied and got in, IF we can get them to give him his scholarships and admission back. Either that, or telling him to stick with the liberal arts at Baylor and not try to take computer science classes. But that also seems counter productive because if he really wants to do computer science now, that is quite employable compared to a philosophy type degree. It feels like it would be crazy to pay more for him to get a philosophy type degree than a computer science degree, when he is actually more interested in computer science at this point, just because the university for the philosophy type degree ranks higher.

 

edited to add: he has enrolled at the liberal arts school and unless there is a wrench, all is fine there. We have not pulled out of Baylor yet as I feel so insecure. The problems I can see still happening are..the housing department is gone until next week and he has not been assigned housing yet. Plus, while I had verbally told them he finished high school as a home schooler last fall, they seemed surprised when I sent them his final transcript as a home school one. But they have not said anything about it since then.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Janeway

[Arcadia]

13 hours ago, Janeway said:

Of course, he only heard second hand that the boy was gossiping, but of course, no one hears about gossip about themselves first hand. There are only 600 kids in the freshman class so it is not like they would both just get lost in the crowd and not notice each other.. 

I’ve heard first hand gossip about myself in college. Some people’s voices carry longer distance than they realize. Doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not malicious slander. Gossiping people are just everywhere. My MIL has a slight inferiority complex and her gossiping sometimes has a find fault style. 
 

My engineering school cohort was 400 students. It was easy to avoid people that I want to avoid. My civil engineering cohort was 56 people. I had a slightly creepy classmate that actually meant no harm, but my other classmates were creep enough by him to help me buffer. 
 

My first job after graduation was with HP. I got it despite my civil engineering degree by having worked at my university’s computer center as an undergrad. I got my promotions through certifications like those for Microsoft, cybersecurity, Linux. I would encourage your son to be aggressive in looking for and securing internships.

[RootAnn]

Janeway, there will always be something to complain about a college, any college. DD's college is great, but they've handled this pandemic poorly. There will always be bad professors --hopefully less at some places than others. There will always be snags, some with enrollment, some with full classes,  some with housing, some with financial aid, some with student services, etc.

My advice is to just decide together & then don't let further hiccups make you second guess everything.

Stop talking about your son's college decisions with relatives. Practice saying things like, "He's very excited about college." Or "[Son] is looking forward to college." The important thing is to give absolutely no particulars and then change the subject. So, follow the generic comment above with, "How is Suzy doing?" Or "How are your tomatoes doing?" Or some topic that is an open ended question about them. If they bring up your son again, repeat your line, "Ah, yes, [Son] is going to college soon." And then change the subject again. [I'm sure you recognize the Passing The Bean Dip Technique. It takes practice. I'm not very good at it, but my mother provides me with lots of opportunity to get better at it.]

[Lanny]

Janeway:      >Do you think it is bad that we are allowing him to enroll in a close by liberal arts >school, that has a great computer science department, but overall, his stats are way above?

IMO he will not be challenged there, because of his much higher stats. Not as much as he would be in a school with other students who are high achievers, like he is.  But, he may be happier closer to home and that has many advantages, especially if he needs help from you and your family. Or  support services that are not available in his school.

RE: Baylor
If students switched from C.S. to E.E. and found E.E. better, IMO that's *extremely* unusual. Normally, E.E. is much more difficult.  I would not be interested in him going to Baylor at this time, for reasons in addition to what you learned about their C.S. program.  I would try, as others suggested, not discussing any of this with anyone outside of your Nuclear family.

Much good luck to your DS!

 

 

 

 

[Janeway]

23 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

[I'm sure you recognize the Passing The Bean Dip Technique. It takes practice. I'm not very good at it, but my mother provides me with lots of opportunity to get better at it.]

ha ha! Yes I do! I guess being away from family for so long has left me rusty.

I can be specific on which colleges I am referring to. Son loved Hendrix when he first toured them. We have known a couple people who sent their kids there and loved it. He also loved Rice but never applied. Many have told us Trinity has a similar feel. In March, we were supposed to visit Trinity University and Southwestern University. I don't think we were ever going to get to visit Cornell College. The shut down prohibited all that anyway. As a result, when we told son that we could not visit those schools, he should do all the virtual opportunities, he said he did not want to attend a school he never visited. We put the deposit down at Hendrix.  He was super excited. Then there was a scholarship glitch (not at Hendrix). An outside scholarship he has is for Texas residents and we were told it could not be taken out of state.We contacted Hendrix and told them what had happened and they very kindly refunded the non-refundable deposit. Later, as we tried to go through paths to reconcile this as we had been told originally that it could be, we were told something totally wrong (people with ASD cannot have the scholarship because they cannot be successful in college). At that point, we went much higher up and got the money reinstated. However, at this point, son was admitted to University Scholars at Baylor and accepted that. Everything has been arranged for fall at Baylor, but with him wanting to pursue computer science, and with the outside scholarship issues having been reconcilled, son went back and said he just wants to stay close to home and do computer science. My husband has hired people from Austin College before and feels they have a good, solid computer science program. We contacted them and they are great with still letting him have his scholarship. His scholarships there with the outside ones added in, are merit based and we will not have to ever worry about financially qualifying (although we would qualify for financial aid at this point, we won't because we have enough in merit based scholarships to cover everything). BUT, I cannot help but think how much he had loved Hendrix. And I know it is the final hour, but maybe we should have reconsidered it. Plus, he LOVED Rice. Rice would have been his top pick if he had applied and gotten in. We have been told Trinity is very similar to Rice in feel and such. His scholarships at Trinity were high and Hendrix, they were even higher than Austin College or Trinity. This makes me feel like he should go back and consider Hendrix. 

My idea of the ideal plan would be to just start Austin College this year because with Covid and all, no one knows if the students will even get to be on campus or anything. And then, if he is not happy, apply to the other schools to transfer. But since the scholarships at Trinity and Hendrix were freshmen ones, and not transfer ones, and the transfer ones are no where near as big,  even if he did get in as a transfer, he would not be able to recover enough financial aid or scholarship to cover his need. SO, this is like the cold feet before a wedding issue....I am very worried. The SAT range at AC is about 1050-1250. Son's scores were well above that. However, he is studying something he never had in high school until he homeschooled that last year, so it could still be a challenge. Trinity's range was 1290-1420. That is more of son's range. That still puts son at the top of the range, but not way above the range. 

[Janeway]

39 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

RE: Baylor
If students switched from C.S. to E.E. and found E.E. better, IMO that's *extremely* unusual. Normally, E.E. is much more difficult.  I would not be interested in him going to Baylor at this time, for reasons in addition to what you learned about their C.S. program.  I would try, as others suggested, not discussing any of this with anyone outside of your Nuclear family.

 

I found it very concerning that the only person I found who stuck it out in computer science was a National Merit Scholar that started on a full tuition and fees scholarship but lost it junior year because he could not keep the minimum GPA required for that scholarship and he said he had two classes along the way he had to retake. He graduated this past year and did get a good job when he graduated. No one else stuck it out on ComSci and some switched to other engineering degrees, some to just other degrees, and some transferred out of Baylor to continue CS. I know they have about 200 students starting this fall aiming for a CS major (I checked) but the last graduating class listed on college navigator only had 30 some graduates in that major. It is not that the program is expanding, it is actually shrinking. They say they have less in CS now than they did a few years ago. The one prof I spoke to, who is the only prof who teaches freshman CS, told me this is a 4 credit class (3 in class and then a portion in lab) so he expects students to take a good 15 hrs outside of class working on homework and projects and such. He says this is reasonable and the only reason anyone would flunk his class is because they didn't try. But I am thinking, if you have 4 times that many in credits and one class has 5 contact hours and 15 hrs outside of class, if that was expected of each class, when would you sleep or shower or eat? That would be 80 hrs of class time and home work. I was also told to forget doing work study or any sort of job as a CS major. I was told by the other that EE was much easier than CS and CS is ridiculous and not appropriate. I was sent a long detailed explanation of what is wrong with the CS department from a parent and what her son had to say about it. So, I guess I have researched this extensively. And since my husband hires people in this field, he has a good idea what son needs to be hired, and Baylor's name is not something that is seen an something amazing or even stands out in the CS field of working.

[UmmIbrahim]

6 minutes ago, Janeway said:

issue....I am very worried. The SAT range at AC is about 1050-1250. Son's scores were well above that. However, he is studying something he never had in high school until he homeschooled that last year, so it could still be a challenge. Trinity's range was 1290-1420. That is more of son's range. That still puts son at the top of the range, but not way above the range. 

 

I can't speak to all of the other factors that you are considering, but I just wanted to say that I wouldn't make any attendance decisions based on an SAT average range for a university. As an example particular to computer science: the University of Illinois Urbana as a whole has an SAT range of 1290 - 1490. Looking at those numbers, one might feel that a student with a high 1500 is somehow "above the range," despite the fact that missing only 3 to 4 more questions, depending on the scoring curve, would be the only difference between those higher-end scores (which is of course a fairly ridiculous metric). Put that aside, and you can look at the score ranges for students accepted to study computer science at UIUC. Almost all of them score a perfect 800 on the math section of the SAT. Looking at university-wide numbers doesn't tell you much about CS students at any given university. In general, based on the current admissions climate and demand for CS, I would imagine that students in most CS programs would skew towards the higher end of the range, which, to be clear, I really don't think tells you much of anything about what studying at that university would be like.

[daijobu]

Re: #2, I once heard a homeschooling college professor say specifically that he wanted his son to attend a college where he was in the 75th percentile.  He didn't want his kid to be at the bottom of the pack in academics, but he also didn't want his kid to be the smartest one there.

Baylor CS sounds like a nightmare.  Your relatives may crow about Baylor's "reputation" but they aren't the ones who have to deal with horrible teaching.  And honestly, apart from their medical school, I'm not sure how much of reputation the school has in any other field, including CS.  I'd dump the school for a full ride.  

[Bristayl]

I don't have personal experience with Austin College but since it is one of the "Colleges that Change Lives", it doesn't strike me as problematic and I personally wouldn't worry about the scores. He has a full ride there, it is good in his major, it is close to home so it would be easier for you to support him--those all sound like wins to me.

With your description of the CS dept at Baylor and other factors that have caused him/you to sour on it, I most certainly wouldn't pay more to send him there, especially if he no longer wants to go there.

I don't know anything about Hendrix but from what you have shared before, AC's proximity to home would probably be advantageous.

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Bristayl said:

I don't have personal experience with Austin College but since it is one of the "Colleges that Change Lives", it doesn't strike me as problematic and I personally wouldn't worry about the scores. He has a full ride there, it is good in his major, it is close to home so it would be easier for you to support him--those all sound like wins to me.

With your description of the CS dept at Baylor and other factors that have caused him/you to sour on it, I most certainly wouldn't pay more to send him there, especially if he no longer wants to go there.

I don't know anything about Hendrix but from what you have shared before, AC's proximity to home would probably be advantageous.

Hendrix is also a "Colleges that Change Lives". But, at this point, I would choose the school that's close enough to go and pick him up the same day. Covid is raging in Texas and we may need to lock down the state again. This isn't a normal college decision metric, but I think it's the most important one for 2020.

[Bootsie]

I would not be concerned about a potential rude student attending the same school.  There are going to be rude students at every school.  There are going to be rude people everywhere in life.  It isn't avoidable.  Also, sometimes young people find that when they are in a different setting and have matured a bit they become friends with people they had problems with before.  The only time that I would be concerned is if there had been a serious bullying issue or a situation in which there would have to be close contact between the two--e.g. both are avid tennis players and know that they will be on the same tennis team at a small school.

As far as the SAT scores, I think it really depends upon the student and whether the overall character of the school is a good match.  Remember that one if four students will be above the 75th percentile at the school.  Some students like being at the top of the class and have a difficult time finding that they are no longer the smartest when they get to college.  Other students thrive on mental challenge and stimulus and want to be surrounding by a situation in which everyone in the room is smarter than they are.  A school may also have some special programs (honors programs, independent studies, internship possibilities) that allow the top students to be challenged outside of the regular classroom setting.

[Lanny]

Janeway: I think if you look on USNEWS or CollegeData or some other web site you will see that the academies don't have incredibly high SAT/ACT scores, on average. They are  also looking at other things like Sports and Leadership when they look at applications.

I know Austin College and had neighbors whose DS went there and later became an M.D. I think he did well.

I would never put Baylor high on the list of schools I think of for STEM things. And, many years ago, I had a colleague whose DD went to Baylor and later became a doctor (I think an Osteopath). So she did well too.

I think you mentioned Rice upthread and also SMU.    Rice to me is an excellent  school for STEM things. Incredibly competitive to get in there due to their great Financial Aid.  I lived about 2 blocks from the SMU campus for one year and I believe it is a very good school, but it isn't in the same league with Rice or Duke, IMO.

UNC has approximately 1000 C.S, students now. The sudden increase in the number of C.S. students caught them by surprise and they are trying to get more instructors and space and to reduce the size of the classes.

I think I have read in the sub Reddit for UNC that some of the C.S.  classes have 300 or 400 students in them, which IMO is horrible and they know that and they are trying to improve it.

Also in the sub Reddit for UNC I believe I read in a thread, within the past week or so, that they suggest not taking more than 2 STEM courses at the same time, in the Freshmen year. My DD took 3 during her 2nd semester. Two C.S. courses and Calc 1. It had been a long time since DD had completed Pre Calc and when she began  Calc 1,  she reduced her work study hours, immediately. by 50%  My guess is that she put in 15 to 20 hours each week, studying for Calc 1. I am simply guessing at the number of hours she studied, but I assume the total was a lot of hours. One of her C.S, courses was an Honors course about Robotics and the Instructor has a PhD and many years of experience.  To me, for a Freshman to be in a course like that is a blessing.

The first STEM courses (especially for first-year students) are really tough and many people don't make it and switch to a different Major, probably a Major that isn't STEM related.

You are very close to Sherman and if there is an issue where your DS needs Support, if necessary you can get there quickly and take him where he needs to go or bring him home or get whatever he needs. The school in Arkansas is a long way away, compared to Austin College in Sherman.

Suggestion: Read some of the threads in the sub Reddit (reddit.com) for Austin College and see what issues they are discussing in the threads there. I don't post on Reddit, but I do read the sub Reddit for UNC, and when I see a  thread I think might be helpful to my DD, I send her the URL so she can read the question and the replies.

Much good luck to your DS at Austin College!  I had a friend who lived across the street from there and I was in the AC swimming pool, many years ago.

ETA: Although I am not sure of the approximate number of hours my DD spent studying for her Calc 1 course, she wrote me, a few days ago, that she enjoyed the course. The Honors C.S. course had 24 students. 🙂 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lanny
add ETA

[Frances]

8 hours ago, Lanny said:

I believe that he should be with other students that are high achievers. The courses will be taught to the level of the students and if the students are mediocre (not the correct word but it will do) then the level of the courses will also be mediocre.  One should do the hardest things they are capable of doing and if the other students are much more average, he won't have that opportunity.

Try to ignore any comments from your family/friends about him deciding to unenroll from Baylor.

I really think this depends on the student, major, and college. Some students will thrive if surrounded by other high achievers, others will do better being one of the top students. Especially at a well respected LAC with a strong computer science department, I would not be at all concerned about a lack of challenge. The professors will not short change high achieving students. My husband and I had amazing experiences as STEM majors at a small LAC where we were among the top students and all doors were open to us at graduation. Professors can be intellectual peers just as much as other students and some of our closest friends to this day are professors from undergrad. If he develops relationships with his major professors, they will make sure he has the opportunities and challenges he needs to be successful. 

[catz]

The first one would only bother me if it bothered my kid.  There are likely to be immaure kids at every school.  There will also be imperfections at every school.  I talked to an ivy league grad recently who was very ho hum on his undergrad experience and much more excited about his grad school experience in a Midwestern program.  

The 2nd one - no probably wouldn't bother me at all if this presented as an academic school that seemed a good fit in other ways.  I think SAT scores CAN be misleading when you look at an entire student body and trends.  I think you should compare academic/social vibe on campus with test scores with average salary. It's not coincidence that many of the schools with the highest test scores also have some of the wealthiest families.  Like the average family income at Dartmouth is north of 200K, 21% of families earning more than 630K.  The average family income at Hendrix is 122K, 6% earning more than 630K.  Well, those students at Dartmouth are considerably more likely to have attended a school or had families that could afford tutors and focused test prep, etc.  

I have no idea what the average academic profile looks at Hendrix but a kid that got an unprepped 28-29 on the ACT could have been a few tutor sessions from a 31+.  For 2nd tier schools with lower average incomes I would not sweat this at all.  Especially for a neuro-atypical kid that might do better in a smaller environment.  My kid is at a much larger school but is certainly in the top 10% of freshman stat wise.  Not only has he not had a hard time finding a very academic peer group.  He has received unique opportunities and attention from faculty.  I think there can be big advantages to being in the top 25% or so of your undergrad program.  Not to mention, my kid was also awarded a very generous merit scholarship.  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/hendrix-college#:~:text=The median family income of,but became a rich adult.

(and sorry if hendrix is not the school you're talking about anymore, maybe I am not keeping up).  

Anyway- like I said before,my kid had a great experience dual enrolling in a community college too and made unique faculty connections there as well. 

ETA - caught up on  comments, I see I am behind.  No, I would not worry about Austin College either, especially since it is a CTCL school.  

Edited July 15, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Emerald Stoker]

I poked around a little online, and saw that 93% of Austin College students graduate in four years, that 94% of their graduates are either employed or in graduate school within a year of finishing, and that their students receive more Fulbright scholarships per capita than any other school in Texas. Now, I might be wrong and I don't know the school at all--but that group of stats says to me that they are doing a really good job there, working with the students they have, developing potential, growing successes--the vibe of those statistics suggests to me that the teaching is excellent and that the students are hard-working. That sounds like a good sort of a place to spend some time, I think.

I hope you all can find some peace in these crazy mixed-up times. I think the stress of the pandemic is not helping any of us who have big decisions to make about the future. Don't worry about your extended family's opinions--the school sounds like a good choice, and you know your son better than anyone else. If you and your son and your husband are all happy, then that's all that matters--I hope that the anticipation can just be fun and exciting for you now that you have decided!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would stop discussing this with extended family. Tell them where he's going and then move on.

 

I would not let one other student drive a college decision, unless it was a situation of persistent abuse or danger from the other student. 

I would not dwell on average test scores at a small liberal arts college. Test scores are not necessarily the prime admissions factor at these schools. Nor does an average test score shed light on the academic ability of students within a specific major.  

If you think Baylor is no longer a match, but one of the other schools is, then make that choice and settle in to helping him learn more about where he's attending and how to get involved. Student engagement is a greater indicator of post graduation success than the ranking of a college. 

I don't know the details of your son's ASD, but being well-equipped for the academic demands may leave him more sufficient margins for getting used to being a college student on a social and interpersonal level. It may also mean he has time for clubs, activities, and projects that interest him.

[Lanny]

2 hours ago, Emerald Stoker said:

I poked around a little online, and saw that 93% of Austin College students graduate in four years, that 94% of their graduates are either employed or in graduate school within a year of finishing, and that their students receive more Fulbright scholarships per capita than any other school in Texas. Now, I might be wrong and I don't know the school at all--but that group of stats says to me that they are doing a really good job there, working with the students they have, developing potential, growing successes--the vibe of those statistics suggests to me that the teaching is excellent and that the students are hard-working. That sounds like a good sort of a place to spend some time, I think.

<Snip>

 

IMO that graduation rate, in 4 years, is awesome. 

ETA: Great research Emerald Stoker. Fulbright Scholarships, etc.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Lanny
Snip out half of quoted post and add ETA

[Janeway]

20 hours ago, Lanny said:

Janeway: I think if you look on USNEWS or CollegeData or some other web site you will see that the academies don't have incredibly high SAT/ACT scores, on average. They are  also looking at other things like Sports and Leadership when they look at applications.

I know Austin College and had neighbors whose DS went there and later became an M.D. I think he did well.

I would never put Baylor high on the list of schools I think of for STEM things. And, many years ago, I had a colleague whose DD went to Baylor and later became a doctor (I think an Osteopath). So she did well too.

I think you mentioned Rice upthread and also SMU.    Rice to me is an excellent  school for STEM things. Incredibly competitive to get in there due to their great Financial Aid.  I lived about 2 blocks from the SMU campus for one year and I believe it is a very good school, but it isn't in the same league with Rice or Duke, IMO.

UNC has approximately 1000 C.S, students now. The sudden increase in the number of C.S. students caught them by surprise and they are trying to get more instructors and space and to reduce the size of the classes.

I think I have read in the sub Reddit for UNC that some of the C.S.  classes have 300 or 400 students in them, which IMO is horrible and they know that and they are trying to improve it.

 

Funny thing about the class size, Baylor has two intro computer science classes, one for majors and one for non-majors. I am unsure of the non-major one but the one for majors has about 200 students in the one class room, and it is listed as face-to-face for this semester. It is in a huge lecture hall where two large lecture halls were next to each other and they say they have removed or are removing the wall to make it one big lecture hall. This seems ridiculous to me. First, the intro class is so huge in such an expensive school, and second, since it is just a large lecture hall and some people will be very far from the front, why not just make it a hybrid class or an online class. In the hybrid classes, a portion goes in person on one day and then at home the rest, so they take turns getting to be in person. So a third of the class would be in person on Mon and home the rest, a third would be in person on Wed and the rest at home, and same for Friday.

[Janeway]

18 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

The first one would only bother me if it bothered my kid.  There are likely to be immaure kids at every school.  There will also be imperfections at every school.  I talked to an ivy league grad recently who was very ho hum on his undergrad experience and much more excited about his grad school experience in a Midwestern program.  

The 2nd one - no probably wouldn't bother me at all if this presented as an academic school that seemed a good fit in other ways.  I think SAT scores CAN be misleading when you look at an entire student body and trends.  I think you should compare academic/social vibe on campus with test scores with average salary. It's not coincidence that many of the schools with the highest test scores also have some of the wealthiest families.  Like the average family income at Dartmouth is north of 200K, 21% of families earning more than 630K.  The average family income at Hendrix is 122K, 6% earning more than 630K.  Well, those students at Dartmouth are considerably more likely to have attended a school or had families that could afford tutors and focused test prep, etc.  

I have no idea what the average academic profile looks at Hendrix but a kid that got an unprepped 28-29 on the ACT could have been a few tutor sessions from a 31+.  For 2nd tier schools with lower average incomes I would not sweat this at all.  Especially for a neuro-atypical kid that might do better in a smaller environment.  My kid is at a much larger school but is certainly in the top 10% of freshman stat wise.  Not only has he not had a hard time finding a very academic peer group.  He has received unique opportunities and attention from faculty.  I think there can be big advantages to being in the top 25% or so of your undergrad program.  Not to mention, my kid was also awarded a very generous merit scholarship.  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/hendrix-college#:~:text=The median family income of,but became a rich adult.

(and sorry if hendrix is not the school you're talking about anymore, maybe I am not keeping up).  

Anyway- like I said before,my kid had a great experience dual enrolling in a community college too and made unique faculty connections there as well. 

ETA - caught up on  comments, I see I am behind.  No, I would not worry about Austin College either, especially since it is a CTCL school.  

He loved Hendrix when he first saw it, and hated Austin College. But AC is where he is going. he never got to look at Trinity but I think he would have loved that too. AC is so close to our house that if he could drive, he could commute. He cannot drive and I doubt that will change. But I could easily pick him up to come home any time he wants. 

Bonus..he has a girlfriend. I knew he had been hanging out with her, but she is over here now and just before she came I asked him son if he "like likes" her and he said yeah. I don't think kids today use the term girlfriend much referencing a romantic interest, but the girl you talk with endlessly and see a lot, one on one, was called a girl/boyfriend in my day. LOL This might be part of why he wants to stay so close to home.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Janeway

[Janeway]

15 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

I would stop discussing this with extended family. Tell them where he's going and then move on.

 

I would not let one other student drive a college decision, unless it was a situation of persistent abuse or danger from the other student. 

I would not dwell on average test scores at a small liberal arts college. Test scores are not necessarily the prime admissions factor at these schools. Nor does an average test score shed light on the academic ability of students within a specific major.  

If you think Baylor is no longer a match, but one of the other schools is, then make that choice and settle in to helping him learn more about where he's attending and how to get involved. Student engagement is a greater indicator of post graduation success than the ranking of a college. 

I don't know the details of your son's ASD, but being well-equipped for the academic demands may leave him more sufficient margins for getting used to being a college student on a social and interpersonal level. It may also mean he has time for clubs, activities, and projects that interest him.

His ASD is such that during registration, he could not get zoom to work so he shut his computer and got in bed and covered up and did not speak for hours. Several hours later, he emerged feeling embarrassed about what happened and wanted to try again. Austin College was very helpful and kind about it and did not make him feel bad about it or question him about it.

[Lanny]

18 hours ago, Janeway said:

His ASD is such that during registration, he could not get zoom to work so he shut his computer and got in bed and covered up and did not speak for hours. Several hours later, he emerged feeling embarrassed about what happened and wanted to try again. Austin College was very helpful and kind about it and did not make him feel bad about it or question him about it.

 

First the most important comment I have is CONGRATULATIONS to him for conquering his ASD and completing the registration with AC.   🙂   And, the  reported 93% graduation rate  (in 4 years) is awesome and indicates to me awesome help and support from AC and the Instructors and TA's there for the students.

Secondly, a few suggestions that may help him in the future: (a) All large and complicated Applications have a "learning curve" that go with them. Not everything is intuitively obvious to every user. For an App like Zoom that has a huge user base, if I was trying to figure out how to do something, I would look first on the Zoom web site , at their "FAQs" and "How to do it" pages. If I couldn't find the solution there, then I would do a Google search for the issue. Something like "Zoom + How do I...")  https://zoom.us/

(b) It might be very helpful to your DS if he has an issue with his PC that is frustrating to him, if you could do "Screen Sharing" with him or use Remote Desktop technology to see what he is doing or what his machine is showing and help him.   I have been looking into how my DD can share her screen with me, when we are collaborating on certain things during the year (airline reservations, income tax, etc.) I have no interest in taking over her machine, but the ability for her to Screen Share with me should speed up what we need to do occasionally and greatly reduce the possibility of an error because I can't see what she's seeing.

In the case of my DD and me, we both have Windows 10 Laptops, so one way to do that is with Microsoft Quick Assist, which is built into Windows 10. For 2 Windows 10 users, that's the easiest way to do it. Nothing to install. It's already within Windows 10.   🙂

I think you have a MAC.  If you don't have access to a Windows machine, Microsoft Quick Assist is not an option for you. In that case, you can use "TeamViewer".   TeamViewer is available for different platforms (Windows, MAC, Linux, etc.) and that would enable you to help him remotely.   I have, in the past, tested TeamViewer on 2 local machines here in the house and my memory tells me it was very easy to use. For your purposes, TeamViewer is free, legally. https://www.teamviewer.com/en/credentials/free-for-personal-use/

ETA; Congrats to him on the girlfriend.  Yes, she may be a motivation to be close to home...

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Lanny
add ETA

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 7/16/2020 at 1:09 PM, Janeway said:

His ASD is such that during registration, he could not get zoom to work so he shut his computer and got in bed and covered up and did not speak for hours. Several hours later, he emerged feeling embarrassed about what happened and wanted to try again. Austin College was very helpful and kind about it and did not make him feel bad about it or question him about it.

We have a family adage from when we lived overseas that there is a limit to how much adventure a person can handle at once. If we were in a place where the travel was hard or what we were seeing was hard, that wasn't the night for adventurous food for dinner. 

There will be lots for him to experience and learn to work through at school. It's ok that academics might not have him working at the edge of his ability every day.

[8filltheheart]

On 7/16/2020 at 12:09 PM, Janeway said:

His ASD is such that during registration, he could not get zoom to work so he shut his computer and got in bed and covered up and did not speak for hours. Several hours later, he emerged feeling embarrassed about what happened and wanted to try again. Austin College was very helpful and kind about it and did not make him feel bad about it or question him about it.

I think this is why you should stop even thinking in terms of stats/test scores/and other students' profiles.  Sometimes when we are in the midst of things with our kids it is hard to step back and really put things in perspective.  You obviously recognize that this is atypical behavior on his part. Computer issues for submitting work or hybrid classes, etc, are going to be par for the course for all college students.   He is going to need most of his bandwith for simple functioning.  Anyone who tells you to focus on peer profiles is missing the boat, so you need to tune them out. Your ds has a disability which impacts his ability to function.  Intelligence is only one component required for college success.  The ability to function is even more important.  Have you reached out to AC's disability office to see how their accommodations work?  Based on your posts, it sounds like they are very supportative.  That is worth more than "prestige" or "high stat profiles."  But, I would want to know just what sorts of accommodations they do provide and what your ds needs to do in order for him to make sure he receives them.  (Typically, they have to submit paperwork for accommodations to their professors at the beginning of every semester.  He is going to have to be his own advocate for making sure that he uses the accommodations he receives.)

[Lanny]

This is from the USNEWS page for Austin College: "It utilizes a 4-1-4-based academic calendar."  Most colleges and universities use the semester system. I'm not sure what 4-1-4 is, but possibly it will be better for the DS of the OP?  And this: "All Austin College students must complete a January Term every year they're enrolled. For the entire month of January, students take just one course, which they study in depth on or off campus."   I read (somewhere) that the classes at Austin College are very small. I hope the DS of the OP will be happy at Austin College and that he will do well there.

[Frances]

8 hours ago, Lanny said:

This is from the USNEWS page for Austin College: "It utilizes a 4-1-4-based academic calendar."  Most colleges and universities use the semester system. I'm not sure what 4-1-4 is, but possibly it will be better for the DS of the OP?  And this: "All Austin College students must complete a January Term every year they're enrolled. For the entire month of January, students take just one course, which they study in depth on or off campus."   I read (somewhere) that the classes at Austin College are very small. I hope the DS of the OP will be happy at Austin College and that he will do well there.

It just means two semesters with a one month January term in between. It’s not uncommon for LACs to have this or a 4-4-1 schedule. It’s more bang for the buck and can offer students opportunities to do something different either on or off campus without devoting a whole semester to it. I had friends who studied abroad for a month, did internships or in-depth job shadows, took time consuming studio art classes, etc. 

[easypeasy]

(Please do not quote)

post removed 🙂

Edited July 20, 2020 by easypeasy