WHOAH! Colleges not opening until 2021

[Sebastian (a lady)]

16 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not sure what's wrong with reusing a video lecture from a past semester?

I consider a lecture teaching - whether that happens live in the classroom or per video, and the fact that the video has been recorded in the past does not change that. It's not different than a prof lecturing from the same notes every semester. I certainly do that - Newton's law hasn't changed, and a video of a force problem I recorded six years ago is still as current and accurate and pedagogically sound as if I were doing a new one.

Obviously that depends on the course.  I just finished my Certificate in Independent Educational Consulting.  All the courses were online.  Most had some type of recorded session each week.  A few were older and had not aged well.  A marketing class that discusses social media outlets that are gone or mentions maybe investigating something that has been well established for over five years isn't giving me quality insights.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

Right, that is why I think everyone should take a breath and not be too harsh on this semester. But I also think - whether it's fair or not - that colleges are going to risk losing enrollment if they can't do it more effectively in the fall and show that they're going to do it more effectively. That's all. And I get why that might be incredibly hard. But I also get why it's a hard sell for families who are struggling to justify tuition for their kids if the class formats are still a mess online.

This is why I think it's wise for universities to be making plans for online course delivery for the fall.  There is a very good chance that some or all of the semester will need to be online.  They may need to shift online at relatively short notice again.  Schools that are planning for this possibility should be applauded. 

As Regentrude mentioned, webcams are hard to come by.  It takes time to create weekly lessons that convey the information well without overwhelming the student with busywork.  Assignments have to be graded and returned (without relying on verbal comments or in class problem sets).  The course websites need to be designed such that the students know what they need to do and how to progress through the course. 

 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

he is a department head and an incredible teacher in the classroom. My Ds loves him and would never complain. We are sure he is overwhelmed. I don’t know that our complains will fix anything other than shut some doors for my DS. 

Oh, if he's normally a great teacher, I'm sure your assessment is right and he is just completely overwhelmed.

This is a horrible time to be department head! He has to make sure everybody else's teaching is happening, has to beg for resources, find work for the staff to do from home, endure endless Zoom meetings with the college administration, deal with mountains of paperwork now that every administrative office is trying to justify their existence, check in with the students and make sure they're ok, make sure the graduating seniors have their ducks in a  row - and probably also prepare extreme budget cut scenarios. It absolutely sucks for them.
It sucks for everybody. Sorry your DS is caught in the middle of this.

[Bootsie]

15 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

Obviously that depends on the course.  I just finished my Certificate in Independent Educational Consulting.  All the courses were online.  Most had some type of recorded session each week.  A few were older and had not aged well.  A marketing class that discusses social media outlets that are gone or mentions maybe investigating something that has been well established for over five years isn't giving me quality insights.

 

Although this is often a criticism of business classes, I think much can be learned by looking at older materials.  Some of the classic Harvard Business School cases are decades old, and still used.  AT first, students wonder how "We Fly for Peanuts" was a marketing plan for Southwest Airlines; they do not see that as unique or different; but there are significant insights into business planning and development that are learned from studying the early days of Southwest Airlines.  

For the first week of online classes, when I needed something quick and students were spread across the world without their course materials, I relied on videos from Yale Open Course.  We were reading Robert Shiller's Irrational Exuberance in class and there are a couple of Shiller's courses available.  I intentionally chose a couple of lectures for the earlier of the two classes (2008) because I wanted students to see some of the history and development of why we ended up where we did today.   

[Bootsie]

16 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

We're also in Texas and they announced that the summer session will be online, but I would be absolutely shocked if fall was online.  We don't have the same percentage of cases that other cities our size do.  Our public schools are supposed to go back May 4th.  I don't see why the colleges wouldn't go back in the fall.  Our governor is supposed to make some huge announcement on Friday, too (not sure if you saw that).

My daughter is taking off for the summer session, because she says the classes can't compare to what they were in person (no offense, college teachers).  She absolutely loved her teachers this semester and was having the time of her life (lol) until they switched to online.  She's still doing great GPA-wise, but it's not the same level of instruction.  She's disappointed about the summer, but it'll be ok.  No hard feelings, teachers.  I know they're doing the best they can....

None taken here.  In fact, my children will probably decide the same thing.  

Some varies by college environment, but where I teach the experience of moving online goes far beyond individual course instruction.  For campuses primarily focused upon giving student content, that can be done online.  But, for universities that see themselves as providing a transformative experience, that often goes beyond individual course content.  I teach at a school where there is a lot of activity, and learning, that is done outside of the classroom.  It is not unusual for a student to stop at the coffee bar and chat with a professor about something he just heard on the news.  Senior accounting majors tutor freshman; the seniors are gaining skills and four years form now when the freshman are seeking jobs, there is a familiar face.  The university hosts breakfasts, and students sit at a table with local business people.  Students gain leadership skills as they organize a weekend hike through the recreation department.  The business professor attends the opera production on the weekend that her student is in and then is able to use a scene from the opera in a lecture the following week.  The university hosts a lecture and a student who attends (simply to receive extra credit in a class) ends up with an interest in an area she never considered.  Students are learning to manage their time between their job, their classes, their study group, and playing on the Lacrosse team.  The biology major has a late night discussion with the anthropology major in the dorm at 2am and gains insights she would not have otherwise.  This part of the college environment is very difficult, or impossible, to replicate online.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:08 AM, Bootsie said:

Although this is often a criticism of business classes, I think much can be learned by looking at older materials.  Some of the classic Harvard Business School cases are decades old, and still used.  AT first, students wonder how "We Fly for Peanuts" was a marketing plan for Southwest Airlines; they do not see that as unique or different; but there are significant insights into business planning and development that are learned from studying the early days of Southwest Airlines.  

For the first week of online classes, when I needed something quick and students were spread across the world without their course materials, I relied on videos from Yale Open Course.  We were reading Robert Shiller's Irrational Exuberance in class and there are a couple of Shiller's courses available.  I intentionally chose a couple of lectures for the earlier of the two classes (2008) because I wanted students to see some of the history and development of why we ended up where we did today.   

There is definitely a value in knowing how we got to where we are.  My course on financial aid used videos from a series that went through the history of federal financial aid. It was fascinating.

It's less helpful when the instructor video is essentially a summary of the assigned readings (as in it says the same as the readings without adding application, anecdotes, or analysis) and includes subjective comments on social medial channels that are dated enough that they have lost relevance.

That particular course was also atypical for the program, which is part of why I found it so frustrating.

[lewelma]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:38 AM, regentrude said:

Your kids' instructor may be teaching her online classes while holding a baby, deflecting a toddler tantrum, telling her 7 year old for the hundredth time that he cannot go out to play with his friends. Cut them some slack.

We live in a block of flats in the city with each apartment at about 600sq ft.  My upstairs neighbor is a professor and has a 1.5 and 4 year old. 'Luckily' for her, her dh lost his job due to lockdown so can take care of the kids.  But these kids are unable to leave her alone for 8 hours a day for her to work because the flat is so small.  So she has been sitting outside at the BBQ table every day for 8 hours. We live in the windiest city in the world and we are currently in autumn, so we are talking about an average of 35mph winds and about 50-60 degrees.  The table is somewhat sheltered, so might be just 10mph winds down there. When I went out to check on her, she not only had a hat and a coat on, she had a full rug wrapped around her back. 

When it rains, she records her lectures from her car. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by lewelma

[lewelma]

On 4/18/2020 at 12:00 AM, Bootsie said:

But, for universities that see themselves as providing a transformative experience, that often goes beyond individual course content. 

I teach at a school where there is a lot of activity, and learning, that is done outside of the classroom.  It is not unusual for a student to stop at the coffee bar and chat with a professor about something he just heard on the news.  Senior accounting majors tutor freshman; the seniors are gaining skills and four years form now when the freshman are seeking jobs, there is a familiar face.  The university hosts breakfasts, and students sit at a table with local business people.  Students gain leadership skills as they organize a weekend hike through the recreation department.  The business professor attends the opera production on the weekend that her student is in and then is able to use a scene from the opera in a lecture the following week.  The university hosts a lecture and a student who attends (simply to receive extra credit in a class) ends up with an interest in an area she never considered.  Students are learning to manage their time between their job, their classes, their study group, and playing on the Lacrosse team.  The biology major has a late night discussion with the anthropology major in the dorm at 2am and gains insights she would not have otherwise.  This part of the college environment is very difficult, or impossible, to replicate online.

This is exactly the problem my ds is having. He has SO MUCH work to do.  SO MUCH.  Like 12 hours a day. And he has lost all the joy that came from living on campus surrounded by others working just as hard. It is the interactions you listed above that make working so hard a joy. 

(deleted the detail)

He works alone in his room all day and all night, and he is starting to get really stressed as the work builds up.  Everything is just so much slower when he has to do it alone, and the stress is so much greater because he has lost his entire support system.  

  

Edited April 18, 2020 by lewelma

[GoodGrief]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:00 AM, Bootsie said:

 

Some varies by college environment, but where I teach the experience of moving online goes far beyond individual course instruction.  For campuses primarily focused upon giving student content, that can be done online.  But, for universities that see themselves as providing a transformative experience, that often goes beyond individual course content.  I teach at a school where there is a lot of activity, and learning, that is done outside of the classroom.  It is not unusual for a student to stop at the coffee bar and chat with a professor about something he just heard on the news.  Senior accounting majors tutor freshman; the seniors are gaining skills and four years form now when the freshman are seeking jobs, there is a familiar face.  The university hosts breakfasts, and students sit at a table with local business people.  Students gain leadership skills as they organize a weekend hike through the recreation department.  The business professor attends the opera production on the weekend that her student is in and then is able to use a scene from the opera in a lecture the following week.  The university hosts a lecture and a student who attends (simply to receive extra credit in a class) ends up with an interest in an area she never considered.  Students are learning to manage their time between their job, their classes, their study group, and playing on the Lacrosse team.  The biology major has a late night discussion with the anthropology major in the dorm at 2am and gains insights she would not have otherwise.  This part of the college environment is very difficult, or impossible, to replicate online.

 

Agree completely. The learning for my daughters (one graduated now, so not impacted curently, but is supposed to go to grad school in the fall) was not limited to the classroom. My current college student is busy constantly with online work, but there's a joylessness about it.

[Guest]

My DD describes it as "All the work, none of the fun". For her, the reason for starting early college was to have that group setting at an appropriate academic level. Joyless is definitely the word to describe this second half of Spring term. 

[regentrude]

35 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

My DD describes it as "All the work, none of the fun". For her, the reason for starting early college was to have that group setting at an appropriate academic level. Joyless is definitely the word to describe this second half of Spring term. 

and it is exactly the same for the teachers. Only "more work, none of the fun"

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

My DD describes it as "All the work, none of the fun". For her, the reason for starting early college was to have that group setting at an appropriate academic level. Joyless is definitely the word to describe this second half of Spring term. 

That describes our homeschool 🤭 as opposed to the local PS. My DS is also begging for more in person courses. 

[kiana]

Joyless pretty much sums it up. 

My college is now pretty sure we'll be online for fall for anything other than possibly courses like health sciences and studio arts and the like. 

I am full of dread. 

[gstharr]

Cal State Fullerton is the first to announce that Fall will open on-line.

[8filltheheart]

Quote

AACRAO is developing guidance on a range of topics in support of institutions of higher education. As many need to adjust, review and consider their practices in response to the impact of COVID-19 on normal operations........

The survey was open for 2 business days and we received 262 responses in that timeframe (91% from U.S. institutions).......

Among institutions that have data to compare at this time, key summer and fall enrollment indicators lean towards a decline in enrollment for new students, continuing students and transfer students

• 90% report no delay in admissions decisions •

Impact on fall course delivery

• 58% are considering or have already decided to remain fully online for fall 2020
• 62% are considering decreasing, or have decreased, the number of in-person courses for fall 2020
• 73% are considering increasing, or have increased, the number of online and/or remote courses for fall 2020

https://www.aacrao.org/docs/default-source/research-docs/press-snapshot/press-snapshot-aacrao-undergraduate-enrollment-indicators-and-admissions-practices-impacted-by-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=ba0d35f7_2&utm_campaign=Next%3A The Future of Higher Education&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue newsletter

[G5052]

It's probable at my school and is being discussed. I was already an online-only professor, so it doesn't change my world. They are opening for fall registration in May, so they plan to decide before that so the schedule will reflect what they've chosen. I'm picking up another school in the fall that does live online classes, and they are expecting excellent enrollment because that's what they do. 

My kids hate online learning though. My oldest one is so sick of his online classes. One professor in an area he's into is dropping assignments right and left.  He graduates in December, so I think just the logistics are going to make the job hunt hard. Never mind that there will be fewer jobs. He's a superstar with two majors and clearance though. If anyone makes it, he will. The younger one has some who hold live class times during the class slot, and others that don't. Her job moved online.

We'll see!

[Tree Frog]

When ds said he wants to take a semester break if his university doesn't offer on campus classes, I told him he needs to see how that would affect his scholarship. He told me today if he doesn't take the classes, he'll lose the scholarship. This is a university that is an excellent fit for ds. He was really happy there. I'm not sure what he'll choose to do. I'm hoping it doesn't derail him for future endeavors.

[MamaSprout]

On 4/18/2020 at 5:28 PM, lewelma said:

This is exactly the problem my ds is having. He has SO MUCH work to do.  SO MUCH.  Like 12 hours a day. And he has lost all the joy that came from living on campus surrounded by others working just as hard. It is the interactions you listed above that make working so hard a joy. 

(deleted the detail)

He works alone in his room all day and all night, and he is starting to get really stressed as the work builds up.  Everything is just so much slower when he has to do it alone, and the stress is so much greater because he has lost his entire support system.  

  

I've been calling students at our uni this week to check on them, and this is our engineering majors. They miss being able to drop into the lounge and catch other students or a professor and work through a problem.

[Bootsie]

6 hours ago, wilrunner said:

When ds said he wants to take a semester break if his university doesn't offer on campus classes, I told him he needs to see how that would affect his scholarship. He told me today if he doesn't take the classes, he'll lose the scholarship. This is a university that is an excellent fit for ds. He was really happy there. I'm not sure what he'll choose to do. I'm hoping it doesn't derail him for future endeavors.

I would encourage him to check and see if any of the rules regarding scholarships are being relaxed during this time period, both regarding maintaining scholarships if he skips a semester (or how few hours can he take in a semester and keeps his scholarship) and how many semesters after matriculation the scholarship will extend.  

[Lucy the Valiant]

SNHU (I don't really know much about the school) rolling out new model where students live on campus but take classes online. (?) UMass theoretically talking about a similar model. https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2020/04/22/southern-new-hampshire-university-to-offer-10k.html

Excerpt from the article: 

Southern New Hampshire University is creating a campus-based education model that would only cost $10,000 per year, down 61% from its current tuition rate.

The private, nonprofit university in Manchester, N.H. said Wednesday that it is working with faculty on developing new models for an on-campus college experience through the 2020-21 academic year. SNHU is also offering a one-time scholarship to all incoming campus freshmen which will cover 100% of first-year tuition.

Incoming freshmen are slated to take courses online while living on campus and participating in campus clubs, activities, athletics and other experiences.

 

 

And another excerpt farther down: 

They are considering different models including all courses being taken online with the option to live on campus, all course taken online with face-to-face support from faculty and the option to live on campus and students taking courses through a project-based model with learning coaches and other academic supports with the option to live on campus.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Lucy the Valiant

[Tree Frog]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I would encourage him to check and see if any of the rules regarding scholarships are being relaxed during this time period, both regarding maintaining scholarships if he skips a semester (or how few hours can he take in a semester and keeps his scholarship) and how many semesters after matriculation the scholarship will extend.  

That's what I've encouraged him to do. We'll continue discussing it, though we're tabling serious discussion until after finals this week. I wondered if he might consider taking summer classes and a lighter load next fall or perhaps a fall internship if he could find one. We'll see what he chooses.

[regentrude]

58 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

SNHU (I don't really know much about the school) rolling out new model where students live on campus but take classes online.

Incoming freshmen are slated to take courses online while living on campus and participating in campus clubs, activities, athletics and other experiences.

And with respect to infectious disease, that makes sense HOW? Because classes are a hotbed of germs, but dorms and clubs aren't?
Or because the quality of education is secondary compared to the fun aspect of the "college experience"?

Edited April 23, 2020 by regentrude

[rjand6more]

Just got an email from DD's school(she is an incoming freshman).  They are planning on moving everyone in this fall.  There will be social distancing, no large gatherings, lots of virus testing, smaller classes, masks, tracing,quarantine if necessary.  Although the university president didn't actually say it, I got the impression that teaching staff may not be in person sometimes.  I am picturing classes of kids watching a screen in a lab.  Recorded for those who could not be there.  

[kiana]

28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

And with respect to infectious disease, that makes sense HOW? Because classes are a hotbed of germs, but dorms and clubs aren't?
Or because the quality of education is secondary compared to the fun aspect of the "college experience"?

More likely because they want the revenue from campus housing and board. 

I might be a bit cynical ... but I bet that's a strong consideration. 

[regentrude]

51 minutes ago, rjand6more said:

Just got an email from DD's school(she is an incoming freshman).  They are planning on moving everyone in this fall.  There will be social distancing, no large gatherings, lots of virus testing, smaller classes, masks, tracing,quarantine if necessary.  Although the university president didn't actually say it, I got the impression that teaching staff may not be in person sometimes.  I am picturing classes of kids watching a screen in a lab.  Recorded for those who could not be there.  

What possible good would the absence of the single teacher do when students congregate in groups? Are professors more contagious than freshmen?

[8filltheheart]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

What possible good would the absence of the single teacher do when students congregate in groups? Are professors more contagious than freshmen?

Probably to protect the health of professors with the attitude that younger people dont get that sick.

[regentrude]

Just now, 8FillTheHeart said:

Probably to protect the health of professors with the attitude that younger people dont get that sick.

as the prof in front of the classroom, I am easily 6 ft away from the students - but they're sitting shoulder to shoulder

[Hoggirl]

@regentrude and others who are college and university professors:

I am curious as to how faculty are feeling about returning to in-seat instruction in the fall?  I have a professor friend who is close to 70 and has high blood pressure.  She says she will refuse to return to in-seat classrooms in the fall even if her university opens.  I am going to be interested to see what the repercussions of such a stance will be for her.  She believes her university MUST allow her to teach online if that is what she wants to do.  I’m not sure about that and what legal implications might come into play.  Anyway...

Are any of you giving thought to how you will personally proceed if your institution makes a choice different from what you feel comfortable with?  Also, if you have never taught online before,  how have your recent experiences impacted your perception of online instruction, in general?

I understand that everyone is focused on their children and their hopes and expectations of the college experience.  I’d like to hear what faculty are thinking about their work hopes and expectations going forward.

[regentrude]

21 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

@regentrude and others who are college and university professors:

I am curious as to how faculty are feeling about returning to in-seat instruction in the fall?  I have a professor friend who is close to 70 and has high blood pressure.  She says she will refuse to return to in-seat classrooms in the fall even if her university opens.  I am going to be interested to see what the repercussions of such a stance will be for her.  She believes her university MUST allow her to teach online if that is what she wants to do.  I’m not sure about that and what legal implications might come into play.  Anyway...

Are any of you giving thought to how you will personally proceed if your institution makes a choice different from what you feel comfortable with?  Also, if you have never taught online before,  how have your recent experiences impacted your perception of online instruction, in general?

I understand that everyone is focused on their children and their hopes and expectations of the college experience.  I’d like to hear what faculty are thinking about their work hopes and expectations going forward.

It is far too early to say whether a return to in seat instruction will be safe in the fall semester. I very much hope that instruction will be live in the fall, because online teaching is more work and none of the joys that got any of us into teaching, and it does not produce the same results. I am also fairly certain that the university, being concerned about student safety and reputation, won't be rash in opening, but rather err on the side of caution. If I were concerned about my safety, it would be easy to modify class activities in a way that allows me to teach while maintaining a 6ft distance from my students.

I talk a lot with colleagues, and nobody has brought up any concerns about this - the concern at the forefront of everybody's mind are the budget cuts. People are worried about getting fired or furloughed, not about being forced to teach live against their will. Many hope the colleagues who are of retirement age will opt to retire with their pensions and SS, rather than kicking the younger folks under the bus and letting them get fired in this economy.  

Teaching assignments are done by the department chairs, and any instructor who has qualms about teaching in person should seek out a discussion with their chair early so that the department can plan the courses. I do not believe that an instructor has the right to be assigned an online course;  academic freedom refers to course content, but I don't believe it is settled whether that extends to delivery method (I just asked my chair). However, a discussion with the department chair or dean could make it possible that that person is assigned a class that lends itself to being taught online vs one that should be taught in person. 

 

[kiana]

 

43 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

I am curious as to how faculty are feeling about returning to in-seat instruction in the fall?  I have a professor friend who is close to 70 and has high blood pressure.  She says she will refuse to return to in-seat classrooms in the fall even if her university opens.  I am going to be interested to see what the repercussions of such a stance will be for her.  She believes her university MUST allow her to teach online if that is what she wants to do.  I’m not sure about that and what legal implications might come into play.  Anyway...

Are any of you giving thought to how you will personally proceed if your institution makes a choice different from what you feel comfortable with?  Also, if you have never taught online before,  how have your recent experiences impacted your perception of online instruction, in general?

I wouldn't want to be the department chair who denied a vulnerable person an online courseload. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen, + it seems plausible that a good lawyer could stretch it to an ADA issue although I'm not a lawyer. 

But this was one of the issues several people were very vocal about in our last faculty meeting (including people who are NOT in vulnerable populations but just worried about colleagues) and I wouldn't doubt that it helped the college's decision to stay online for fall. 

I think that even if courses are meeting in-person for fall, professors will need to provide a significant online component and be very flexible because we still may have students who are ill or exposed and need to self-quarantine, and the whole semester could get moved online again. 

I have never taught online. I'm surprised because it's not going as badly as I thought but I still hate it. 

[rjand6more]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

What possible good would the absence of the single teacher do when students congregate in groups? Are professors more contagious than freshmen?

 

3 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Probably to protect the health of professors with the attitude that younger people dont get that sick.

Yes.  That is what I am gathering.  Since the serious risk is to the professors.

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

 and others who are college and university professors:

I am curious as to how faculty are feeling about returning to in-seat instruction in the fall?  I have a professor friend who is close to 70 and has high blood pressure.  She says she will refuse to return to in-seat classrooms in the fall even if her university opens.  I am going to be interested to see what the repercussions of such a stance will be for her.  She believes her university MUST allow her to teach online if that is what she wants to do.  I’m not sure about that and what legal implications might come into play.  Anyway...

Are any of you giving thought to how you will personally proceed if your institution makes a choice different from what you feel comfortable with?  Also, if you have never taught online before,  how have your recent experiences impacted your perception of online instruction, in general?

I understand that everyone is focused on their children and their hopes and expectations of the college experience.  I’d like to hear what faculty are thinking about their work hopes and expectations going forward.

Things could quickly change, but as of now, I would not have a problem personally of returning to the classroom in the fall.  I would probably make some changes to some classroom activities (like not having students pass papers to one another) 

Online instruction has been a lot of work.  It has been worse because that is not what I had designed my class and grading components for.  Also, students weren't prepared for online learning.  They left for spring break, after taking a midterm, without their books or other class materials.  My eyes and my back are hurting from sitting at the computer so much.  I cannot cover as much material, and from those I have talked to who have taught planned courses online find the same thing.  And an important part of the learning process of the casual conversations is missing. 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think this will ultimately be a college by college choice unless either a state or federal government mandates students remain at home.

I cannot imagine a situation in which a college will lower its tuition if they use an online classroom in the fall. Obviously they could not charge room and board to a student not utilizing those services. I would go so far as to expect a hefty technology fee for that semester. Ultimately they still need to maintain the campus, pay employees, pay their faculty, and so on. Their basic agreement is to provide an opportunity to earn credit. If they provide that opportunity and you complete the required work successfully and receive the credit towards graduation then you have received what you paid for; the delivery system is not a guarantee as can be seen by the variety of ways professors conduct their courses.

Some students are very challenged to have connectivity or access to computers. International students may not have the same services we have here in the US and a wide variety of locations in the US lack reliable internet or even internet at all. However, students are resourceful. One of my son's classmates has made the news recently for attending class in a tent because that was the only location at home where he could remain quarantined and get internet via his cell phone. However, such determination will not solve all internet issues. Colleges will probably be very understanding of students taking a leave of absence until on campus instruction resumes. But that could come at a cost for many schools as some students may enter the workforce and decide not to return to college.

I know my son's college has announced they are working a triple plan-start on time and on campus being their working model but are busy now creating plans B & C for a delayed start on campus or a early departure from campus. As a military school this is a particular challenge since much of the instruction is done outside the classroom with regard to leadership skills, military training, and physical training. We have yet to hear from my daughter's grad school on how they expect to proceed, although for her grad school it may be slightly easier since a larger number of students are located in urban/suburban areas near the school, already working from home, and more likely to have the necessary equipment and they have a topic that lends itself to discussion, research, and papers rather than labs and in person experiences.  In other words, I think it will really depend on the school.

[easypeasy]

My kids have received a few emails today from various universities that have stated that they intend to begin classes in the fall in person. They are also coordinating Plans B, C... but their Plan A is continue as usual (with obvious modifications... whatever those may be).

The universities also seem to be pushing summer online enrollment pretty heavily. I'm guessing that is to help make up some of the lost $$$!! We weren't seriously considering summer enrollment for DS... but since the whole world has been canceled for the summer, we're looking at 6-9 credit hours now! Might as well do something with that time! 😕

[teachermom2834]

Schools here are still saying the plan is to be in person in fall if at all possible. The financial toll of not having football in the fall will be huge not just to the university but to the entire eastern third of the state. So getting football back (which obviously can’t happen if students aren’t on campus) seems to be a driving force in getting back in person. There is talk of playing college football in the spring, though. It is as though as bad as all this has been and as hard as the economic impact has been, cancelling college football seems a line people are unwilling to cross. I’m not just saying because people are sports crazy but because of the economic impact. It is the kind of thing where you can’t get a hotel within 200 miles on a football weekend things are so busy. 

I’m anxious to know but I’m happy for the ones that involve us to wait if that means they aren’t moving online prematurely. If it has to be online, that is understandable, but I’d rather schools wait as long as they can to make that call. (In our case it won’t change anyone’s living arrangements).

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

And you don't have kids talk to you after class or in office hours? During lecture, yes, I was far away from the students. I was not after class or before class or between classes. 

sure, but that would be easy to adjust if necessary. Easier than distancing the students for one another

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by regentrude

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Really, how? Maybe online office hours, that could help. But how do you avoid crowded hallways and surfaces that students have touched? 

I can imagine different scenarios.

When I talk to students after class (which is in a 140 person auditorium),  I often explain something on the blackboard. Instead of standing next to me, they could stand behind the big table that holds the demos. I could hold office hours in a conference room instead of my tiny office (but nobody comes to office hours anyway). 

The help sessions where students work in groups are much harder. Packed classrooms. Again, the instructor could explain from a distance; but the students are close to one another.

Hallways? Not an issue unless you try to squeeze through in the two minutes before classes start. Could easily avoid if I were concerned.

Edited April 26, 2020 by regentrude

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

And ah, that's interesting that no one comes to office hours. I've always had full office hours. Probably depends on the school. 

I offer ten hours of help sessions each week, staffed with peer tutors and faculty, and those are packed. In a 500 person course, individual office hours make little sense.

The help sessions would be an issue, as I said.

Edited April 26, 2020 by regentrude