Safe way to do this? Or not really? - UPDATE :)

[TheReader]

So, I mentioned elsewhere, my grandpa died in early March. My grandma is now completely alone. The family was checking on her and such, but we're all in separate counties and all under Stay at Home orders, and so she's hunkered down at home, and we're all hunkered down at home, and.....she's alone. She's okay -- she's strong, healthy, very "young" for her age if that makes sense, well stocked on groceries, etc. 

But, Easter is coming and will be the first holiday w/o my grandpa. 

I would like, very much, to drop off a homemade Easter meal for her.......but can't decide if there is a safe way to do that. 

If I glove & mask up to cook/prepare/pack up the food, stay masked driving over (and mask up the family), fresh gloves to drop off on her porch, call from the driveway that we're there with the food and we have a phone chat (her in her house, us in our car).......safe enough?? Or not worth the risk??

The last thing I want is to be responsible or feel responsible if she were to get sick. Should I skip this plan all together and just call her from home instead? 

What says the Hive??

UPDATE -- 
So, we did this! It was so good!!!

Masks were worn, the food swap was contactless, and it was soooo good to see my grandma "face to face" even if masked up. I haven't seen her since the week my grandpa died, over a month ago, and it was just reassuring in a way that all the positive phone calls haven't been able to be. 

Thank you all who gave tips on how to do this in the safest manner possible. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by TheReader

[PeterPan]

Oh sure take her a meal! Restaurants are delivering, so it's no different. 

I thought you were going to ask about moving her in with you. 

[purpleowl]

I would not have a problem with that.

[mommyoffive]

Sounds great and safe.  I think she will love seeing you all.  I think you can even go up to the window and "talk" on the phone. 

[athena1277]

Do it.  When you’ve backed away from the door a safe distance, stay and talk to her a few minutes.  Even if you can’t give her a hug, I’m sure she will enjoy seeing you in person.

[catz]

Oh yes, I think that is totally fine.  My DH did a doorstop meal delivery for his parents last week.  

[TheReader]

15 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh sure take her a meal! Restaurants are delivering, so it's no different. 

I thought you were going to ask about moving her in with you. 

Well, ha. I did debate that before the Stay at Home orders went into effect, but there's no practical way to do that, and she's really a strong, independent woman. Everyone is calling and checking on her (family, friends, etc.) so....I mean, it's not ideal, but she's okay. 

I also debated moving down there with her, but again....not practical. And really, she is okay (I keep having to remind myself of this; my grandma is a fiercely strong woman, and really will be totally fine). 

 

[TheReader]

oh, thank you all!!!! I will plan on it, then. I'll call my aunt and make sure they aren't also planning the same thing so we don't double up. (we're the only 2 close enough for in person checks at this point). 

Thank you!!! 

[PeterPan]

Now my MIL wasn't as spunky as your grandma is, so I took her a bag of single freezer meals and things to make sure she was eating. So I think even doubling could be good, especially if she doesn't like to cook. She could just freeze it in portions or have it other ways, like ham sandwiches. 

Have you thought about facetime/skype/facebook video with her? That's SO helpful for people. 

Does she have any hobbies that you could send her something for? My dad can't do puzzles by himself, so that's harder. (He's in assisted living, so he's in strict quarantine, very lonely.) But if your grandma has a hobby like knitting or something, then even a small gift could be nice. We encouraged my MIL to take up charity knitting/sewing after my FIL passed, and that was so good for her. 

I guess the thing I'd feel bad about is I'm remembering how much CHANGE my MIL wanted to make after her dh passed. Like all the carpet, the furniture, everything POOF. She repainted the dining room and just changed a LOT. Changed her hair even. And being trapped is maybe slowing down that process. But that's why I'm saying maybe throw something *different* at her, something she didn't know she'd like to do. And maybe not, but I've heard that wanting change is really common after a spouse passing.

[Storygirl]

I think it is a nice idea! After you place it on her porch, or wherever, you can stand back and watch her fetch it and wave and talk to her from afar.

I would tell her she should wear gloves to pick up the package, and then she should transfer the food to her own containers and throw all of your packaging away before taking her gloves off. Then she can wash her hands. She could wipe off the outside of her containers with a disinfectant wipe and wash her hands again, to be super safe.

I would write down these steps for her, so that she doesn't have to remember.

She wouldn't have to wear gloves necessarily, if she can be very careful about the hand washing.

[wintermom]

I think it's a very thoughtful idea. My only concern would be if you are actually allowed to travel there and back, and if you are do you have to go into quarantine yourself when you get home. I'd ensure you don't stop and shop for groceries or gas. There is always a risk that something unplanned could happen to force you to stop, though. 

I think the travel is the highest risk in this scenario, and that risk is on you and then your family. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by wintermom

[TheReader]

12 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I think it's a very thoughtful idea. My only concern would be if you are actually allowed to travel there and back, and if you are do you have to go into quarantine yourself when you get home. I'd ensure you don't stop and shop for groceries or gas. There is always a risk that something unplanned could happen to force you to stop, though. 

I think the travel is the highest risk in this scenario, and that risk is on you and then your family. 

We're only in neighboring counties, so even though both are under "stay at home" orders, there's no official check points or anything in keeping us from going to/from. Also, both counties DO list "or providing essential services for a family member" as an acceptable reason to travel/be out and about, so I think "taking food to my alone & recently widowed grandma" would probably be deemed okay if we were to be pulled over/stopped/something like that.  No quarantine rules in play or anything like that (it's only an hour over; same metro area).  But thank you for thinking of that just in case 🙂

[TheReader]

38 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Now my MIL wasn't as spunky as your grandma is, so I took her a bag of single freezer meals and things to make sure she was eating. So I think even doubling could be good, especially if she doesn't like to cook. She could just freeze it in portions or have it other ways, like ham sandwiches. 

Have you thought about facetime/skype/facebook video with her? That's SO helpful for people. 

Does she have any hobbies that you could send her something for? My dad can't do puzzles by himself, so that's harder. (He's in assisted living, so he's in strict quarantine, very lonely.) But if your grandma has a hobby like knitting or something, then even a small gift could be nice. We encouraged my MIL to take up charity knitting/sewing after my FIL passed, and that was so good for her. 

I guess the thing I'd feel bad about is I'm remembering how much CHANGE my MIL wanted to make after her dh passed. Like all the carpet, the furniture, everything POOF. She repainted the dining room and just changed a LOT. Changed her hair even. And being trapped is maybe slowing down that process. But that's why I'm saying maybe throw something *different* at her, something she didn't know she'd like to do. And maybe not, but I've heard that wanting change is really common after a spouse passing.

She said she's been cleaning -- my grandpa was a saver/almost hoarder, and she's just been going through and cleaning/throwing stuff away/etc. 

She is an artist, and mentioned painting as well, so I think honestly on that end of things, she's fine.  Everyone is checking in on her over the phone (me, all her kids, several of her friends, customers from her art gallery, etc...) so mentally I think she'll be fine. She was looking forward to getting back to painting, so that's good. 

These are good ideas, though; thank you. I may check and be sure she still has good supplies, if not, that's easy enough to order and have sent via Amazon or a local art supply place if they are doing curbside pick-up. 

20 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I think it is a nice idea! After you place it on her porch, or wherever, you can stand back and watch her fetch it and wave and talk to her from afar.

I would tell her she should wear gloves to pick up the package, and then she should transfer the food to her own containers and throw all of your packaging away before taking her gloves off. Then she can wash her hands. She could wipe off the outside of her containers with a disinfectant wipe and wash her hands again, to be super safe.

I would write down these steps for her, so that she doesn't have to remember.

She wouldn't have to wear gloves necessarily, if she can be very careful about the hand washing.

That's a good idea; I'll suggest that. I can take some new, unopened containers for her to transfer things into, then she can unwrap them, toss the wrapper, load things into it and toss our stuff. We have small bottles of sanitizer and wipes we can take as well for her to use right then. 

[TheReader]

I don't know about face time, etc.; I don't know whether or not she's got the technology for some of that. I'll ask. 

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, TheReader said:

We're only in neighboring counties, so even though both are under "stay at home" orders, there's no official check points or anything in keeping us from going to/from. Also, both counties DO list "or providing essential services for a family member" as an acceptable reason to travel/be out and about, so I think "taking food to my alone & recently widowed grandma" would probably be deemed okay if we were to be pulled over/stopped/something like that.  No quarantine rules in play or anything like that (it's only an hour over; same metro area).  But thank you for thinking of that just in case 🙂

Distance is not as important as border crossing in my locale. A 5 min drive across into the neighbouring province is not allowed, and bringing groceries to a relative would not be allowed/essential. The requirement would be to find a neighbour within the province to deliver the food. That is how that province would frame their regulation.

You may want to double check your local county regulations just to be sure before you start your trip. Hundreds of people have been turned back at my local provincial border crossing.

[vonfirmath]

Just now, wintermom said:

Distance is not as important as border crossing in my locale. A 5 min drive across into the neighbouring province is not allowed, and bringing groceries to a relative would not be allowed/essential. The requirement would be to find a neighbour within the province to deliver the food. That is how that province would frame their regulation.

You may want to double check your local county regulations just to be sure before you start your trip. Hundreds of people have been turned back at my local provincial border crossing.

 

Are provinces more like counties? Or states?

because I live on the county border and go into another county to do my grocery shopping and don't think twice about it. (The other-county grocery store is our "Neighborhood" grocery store.) Certainly there is no one stopping cars on the county border.

[TheReader]

1 minute ago, wintermom said:

Distance is not as important as border crossing in my locale. A 5 min drive across into the neighbouring province is not allowed, and bringing groceries to a relative would not be allowed/essential. The requirement would be to find a neighbour within the province to deliver the food. That is how that province would frame their regulation.

You may want to double check your local county regulations just to be sure before you start your trip. Hundreds of people have been turned back at my local provincial border crossing.

There's no "border" to cross; we're all in one large metro area (Houston) and to put a check point at the lines between counties would be impossible; we're talking one HUGE highway system. I am 1000% positive we'll be able to get there and back, w/o violating any kind of order. 

[brehon]

6 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Distance is not as important as border crossing in my locale. A 5 min drive across into the neighbouring province is not allowed, and bringing groceries to a relative would not be allowed/essential. The requirement would be to find a neighbour within the province to deliver the food. That is how that province would frame their regulation.

You may want to double check your local county regulations just to be sure before you start your trip. Hundreds of people have been turned back at my local provincial border crossing.

I’m in the same state as Reader. Nothing like that is happening at all between the counties. And bringing food or other supplies to a relative is specifically written into the SIP orders. 

[brehon]

6 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Are provinces more like counties? Or states?

because I live on the county border and go into another county to do my grocery shopping and don't think twice about it. (The other-county grocery store is our "Neighborhood" grocery store.) Certainly there is no one stopping cars on the county border.

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. I live in TC and work in WC. People cross the county lines all the time in our area - often without even realizing it. 

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Are provinces more like counties? Or states?

because I live on the county border and go into another county to do my grocery shopping and don't think twice about it. (The other-county grocery store is our "Neighborhood" grocery store.) Certainly there is no one stopping cars on the county border.

I think you have to look specifically at your own location and how they are creating and enforcing their regulations, rather than try to make comparisons between countries in these times. 

One thing to consider is that these upcoming holidays are definitely on the radar of officials. They don't people to start travelling and spreading the virus. The travel regulations in place now could well be different than what they decide to do for the holidays in an attempt to reduce travel.

[wintermom]

12 minutes ago, TheReader said:

There's no "border" to cross; we're all in one large metro area (Houston) and to put a check point at the lines between counties would be impossible; we're talking one HUGE highway system. I am 1000% positive we'll be able to get there and back, w/o violating any kind of order. 

The question then is whether you are going to be one of the people that do not listen to the warning to stay home during the upcoming holidays?  Or will you add to the volume of people travelling for non-essential reasons. It's going to be a very tempting position for thousands of people to jump in the car and drive to grandma's for Easter. 

[EmseB]

23 minutes ago, wintermom said:

The question then is whether you are going to be one of the people that do not listen to the warning to stay home during the upcoming holidays?  Or will you add to the volume of people travelling for non-essential reasons. It's going to be a very tempting position for thousands of people to jump in the car and drive to grandma's for Easter. 

But there is close to zero risk to driving to drop off food on someone's porch. It's not like they are going to have a big family meal together. 

ETA: The point of all of this is to not have contact with others, which is totally possible for the OP. I think some of these SIP orders have to take into account common sense, not just a zero tolerance policy of people leaving their homes.

Edited April 9, 2020 by EmseB

[PrincessMommy]

I think it sounds lovely.  Take her a meal and maybe visit with her through the window.   I'm sure she will appreciate it.

[Pawz4me]

7 minutes ago, EmseB said:

But there is close to zero risk to driving to drop off food on someone's porch. It's not like they are going to have a big family meal together. 

ETA: The point of all of this is to not have contact with others, which is totally possible for the OP. I think some of these SIP orders have to take into account common sense, not just a zero tolerance policy of people leaving their homes.

Yes, this. I also think mental health--and perhaps especially the mental health of any senior who lives alone, let alone a newly widowed person like the OP's grandmother--needs to be taken into consideration and weighed on the risk/benefit scale. We've done that and are continuing to see MIL once every week or two. We maintain social distance, and if possible visit outside. We know her well enough to know that her mental health would decline rapidly if she didn't have that contact.

[TheReader]

56 minutes ago, brehon said:

I’m in the same state as Reader. Nothing like that is happening at all between the counties. And bringing food or other supplies to a relative is specifically written into the SIP orders. 

 

41 minutes ago, wintermom said:

The question then is whether you are going to be one of the people that do not listen to the warning to stay home during the upcoming holidays?  Or will you add to the volume of people travelling for non-essential reasons. It's going to be a very tempting position for thousands of people to jump in the car and drive to grandma's for Easter. 

See above. The orders for my county, my grandma's county, and virtually all counties in our state (because they all more or less just copied the first one to go out) specifically spell out that taking food to a relative is permitted as essential. 

They also specifically list as essential care-giving duties for those caring for the elderly/seniors, which double covers this trip. 

I absolutely would not consider doing this if either county, mine or hers, were limiting this sort of event as against the rules. But they are not, and it's specifically covered within the exceptions that are allowed at this time. 

Tossing in that we are ALSO planning a completely no-contact (not even just staying 6 ft apart, but not even having her open the door until we're back in the car, most likely) and we are 100% complying with city, county, and state guidelines at this point. I promise. 

[TheReader]

2 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

Sounds good.   The volunteers delivering food to my senior family member have made sure the food containers are disinfected, and they have double bagged the food.  They remove the outer bag after they get out of the vehicle,and put the food bag in the designated place.

Oh, this is helpful! Thank you! 

 

[Farrar]

It will probably feel "weird" but just like with takeout, she should bring the containers in and immediately transfer the food then toss them if  they're disposable or put them in to be washed and not touch them again if they're not and wash her own hands thoroughly as if she just went out.

Otherwise, I think that sounds like a very sweet thing to do.

[TheReader]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

It will probably feel "weird" but just like with takeout, she should bring the containers in and immediately transfer the food then toss them if  they're disposable or put them in to be washed and not touch them again if they're not and wash her own hands thoroughly as if she just went out.

Otherwise, I think that sounds like a very sweet thing to do.

Yes, someone mentioned that. I will make sure and tell her to do that. 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, brehon said:

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. I live in TC and work in WC. People cross the county lines all the time in our area - often without even realizing it. 

 

I live in TC and go to the store in WC 🙂 (And didn't realize it was in the other county until they had restaurants still open for sit down when ours went takeout only)

Edited April 9, 2020 by vonfirmath

[Tanaqui]

The only thing I'd add to this is to take your temperature every day from now until then. You want to ensure you don't have a fever at any point. Make sure to take your temperature at the same time every day to ensure a proper baseline.

Also, of course - and this you're no doubt already doing! - put the kibbosh on this plan entirely if at any point you start showing gastro-intestinal or respiratory symptoms.

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

There's no "border" to cross; we're all in one large metro area (Houston) and to put a check point at the lines between counties would be impossible; we're talking one HUGE highway system. I am 1000% positive we'll be able to get there and back, w/o violating any kind of order. 

 

I think what you are doing is very sweet. A childhood teacher of mine is a new widow there and I wish I were close enough to do something similar.  Her husband died suddenly a week ago Friday (He was a community college-type professor and it is thought likely from the stress of putting his class online) and her kids are in California and New York.

[TheReader]

9 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

The only thing I'd add to this is to take your temperature every day from now until then. You want to ensure you don't have a fever at any point. Make sure to take your temperature at the same time every day to ensure a proper baseline.

Also, of course - and this you're no doubt already doing! - put the kibbosh on this plan entirely if at any point you start showing gastro-intestinal or respiratory symptoms.

Good tips, and yes, no way we would do this if we started showing any kind of symptoms at all. 

I was last out in public on Monday, with a mask and copious amounts of hand washing (last outing before that was 10 days prior); I wish I'd planned further ahead so that it could have been 14 days since my last "possible exposure" but absolutely if at any point anyone in our house has a fever, symptoms, etc., we'll ditch the whole idea. 

And honestly.....my grandma may say, when I call her, "Oh, that's very sweet, but please don't risk it!" and if so, we'll abide by her wishes. The absolute last thing on earth I want is for her to get sick. 

[TheReader]

4 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

I think what you are doing is very sweet. A childhood teacher of mine is a new widow there and I wish I were close enough to do something similar.  Her husband died suddenly a week ago Friday (He was a community college-type professor and it is thought likely from the stress of putting his class online) and her kids are in California and New York.

Oh, I'm so very sorry! Prayers for her. 

[wintermom]

33 minutes ago, TheReader said:

See above. The orders for my county, my grandma's county, and virtually all counties in our state (because they all more or less just copied the first one to go out) specifically spell out that taking food to a relative is permitted as essential. 

They also specifically list as essential care-giving duties for those caring for the elderly/seniors, which double covers this trip. 

I absolutely would not consider doing this if either county, mine or hers, were limiting this sort of event as against the rules. But they are not, and it's specifically covered within the exceptions that are allowed at this time. 

Tossing in that we are ALSO planning a completely no-contact (not even just staying 6 ft apart, but not even having her open the door until we're back in the car, most likely) and we are 100% complying with city, county, and state guidelines at this point. I promise. 

I'm not trying to be critical of your intentions at all. It's thoughtful and you are obviously showing great love for your grandmother. 

All the best!

[ktgrok]

I get it. Here the counties wrap around, so that one city (mine) is in two different counties. I probably cross from one to the other half a dozen times a week at least without even knowing I'm doing it (before, when I left the house I mean, lol). No way to have county checkpoints, nor does anyone think in terms of counties at all. My sister is in the same county as me, but over 45 minutes away (same metro area). The nearby park we go to that is 5 minutes away (same direction!) is a different county. Go figure. 

[TheReader]

14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I get it. Here the counties wrap around, so that one city (mine) is in two different counties. I probably cross from one to the other half a dozen times a week at least without even knowing I'm doing it (before, when I left the house I mean, lol). No way to have county checkpoints, nor does anyone think in terms of counties at all. My sister is in the same county as me, but over 45 minutes away (same metro area). The nearby park we go to that is 5 minutes away (same direction!) is a different county. Go figure. 

Thanks. : ) 

For those following along who don't live places like this -- the Houston metro area refers to parts of at least FOUR different counties (thus, why they all used the same wording in their stay at home orders).  My own county website links to the city of Houston guidelines, the next county over, and our own county info.  I have honestly NO IDEA where, along the highways that go between counties, I exit one county and enter the next. I mean, I know that at some point, I do, but I don't know where that line is. 

(to put it in another perspective -- my grandma, my mother-in-law, and my sister-in-law all live roughly an hour from us, and the first 30 mins of the drive to any one of them is along the same highway in the same direction, then you branch off 3 different ways. All 3 of them are in different counties from each other, although I've no idea where the "county line" is for any of them)

I know not everyone is from my state, or familiar with the Houston area, etc. but hopefully this helps 🙂

[vonfirmath]

I grew up in the Aldine school district "in" Houston. I have also lived in the Greater seattle metro area.  Houston is a beast of its own sort.

 

(And evidently Dallas-Fort Worth is worse!)

 

[TheReader]

10 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

I grew up in the Aldine school district "in" Houston. I have also lived in the Greater seattle metro area.  Houston is a beast of its own sort.

 

(And evidently Dallas-Fort Worth is worse!)

 

Ah, yes, good ole' DFW.....I do think you're right, it's even *more* intertangled than Houston is. 

*and after I posted, I realized that there's at least a 5th county that lies at least partly in the Houston area. Growing up here, I just honestly forget that not everyone comes from places where folks in the same metro area are actually up to 2 hrs away.....and that's no big deal.

[TheReader]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

I haven’t read all the replies, but if you truly have a concern, prepare  items that are to be served warm, and then you refrigerate them. Deliver with reheating instructions. 

Of course now all I can think about is ham and stuffed eggs and cold salads - the things I enjoy most for Easter dinner!

Yes, we thought of that, too. 

DH is making a brisket (which could be cold or heated up), and I'll either make potato salad or a pasta salad.....those are both best cold, but I think with the "swap containers" and other info given up thread, it should be okay. But thank you though! That is certainly an idea! I could switch to creamed corn instead, and then put heating instructions.....