Older child adjusting to public high school

[Terabith]

The one who doesn’t have any diagnoses.  Who has sailed through life as a high achiever, friendly, social, with good mental health and excellent executive functioning.

Except, it’s always kind of niggled at the back of my head.  She started early intervention at 15 months.  I called them, despite the military pediatricians saying she was fine, because she would say words once and never again.  So I called.  She qualified for speech and later occupational therapy, and it was awesome.  She had oral motor issues, so we taught her ASL and worked hard with nuk brushes and licked whipped cream off mirrors and blew whistles.  She had 250 signs by her second birthday, and by 2.5, her speech was well above average.  There were a couple weirdnesses. We did a brief round of therapy at three because she never asked questions.  She had a weird phobia about fast food playgrounds but really really wanted to participate.  We had a developmental pediatrician exam at three that looked at her for autism (no flags on test) but said she was at risk for ADHD and learning disabilities.  Ironically, one day while working with Anna, the speech therapist looked at four month old Cat and said, “Now that’s a neurotypical child if I ever saw one.  No worries about autism there!”   That actually made me doubt my thoughts about Cat for years.  

We moved a bit before Anna turned four.  I was unable to find a preschool for her, but we got her involved in lots of activities (church, Little Gym, swim lessons, ballet).  One lesson I had picked up from the OT was that she needed a lot of vigorous physical exercise to stay in sync.  So we did.  We started homeschooling when she was 4.5, and she excelled academically.  She got lots of sleep, lots of exercise, listened to lots of books, had lots of social opportunities.  By the time she was about ten, she was rebelling against me and needed more consistent peer experiences than I could provide.  We sent her to Catholic school and she absolutely thrived.  

The plan had always been to send her to public for high school, but finances made us send Cat early too.  She loves the public high school with 2000 students.  She’s taking top tier classes (and the not top tier classes are chess pits of behavior).   She’s making all A’s.  She’s involved in theater.  She loves the excellent art classes.  She is involved in the amazingly good theater.  She has friends and is dating.  She’s been out about being a lesbian since about age 12, which was kinda big at the Catholic school but doesn’t raise an eyebrow at public.  She loves the diversity of public school and thinks in general the kids are nicer.  I think she’s right.  She has started having some gender issues, and I don’t know if it’s genuine dysphoria or teen discomfort with changing body and hating boobs.  

About a year ago, she started really struggling with depression.  At first it seemed to be hormonal but by Christmas it was pretty all encompassing.  We bought her a couple binders.  We got her a counselor.  But things haven’t gotten better.  They’re getting worse.  We put her on birth control pills and then Zoloft.  Going back to dr tomorrow for two week check on that.  It’s a tiny dose.  Not a psychiatrist because there are very few psychiatrists for kids around here.  She’s crying pretty much all the time.  She’s terrified of not making A’s.  She’s worried about college and scholarships and the future.  She’s quit doing a lot of what she enjoys and even when she is doing stuff she likes, she’s not happy.  Everyone in the house is having nightmares about her anxiety and depression.  She’s resisting going to school.  I have offered to homeschool her but she doesn’t want to.  And she’s miss out on the great arts stuff.  I think a chunk of it is sensory.  Her teachers this year are good at keeping order, but there are over 30 kids in most classes, which is a big step up from 12 or so at Catholic.  I think classes at Catholic were more rigorous but they didn’t have the fine arts.  

But my alarm bells are going off.  I don’t think things are getting better.  I worry she needs to be hospitalized.  I worry she needs us to pull her out of school.  But she really really doesn’t want us to. I also cannot find OTs who work with teens with sensory issues, and she doesn’t want to do anything that would make her stand out, like noise canceling headphones or ear plugs.  But even at home she doesn’t want anyone talking.  

Anyway, I am worried.  Not sure letting her stay home is right call but I’m too sick to fight.  And maybe she needs the break?  She still cries and is a mess at home, but it’s definitely better than when she’s in school.  

So anyway.  Thoughts?  Ideas?

[Chris in VA]

pming you

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The one who doesn’t have any diagnoses.  Who has sailed through life as a high achiever, friendly, social, with good mental health and excellent executive functioning.

Except, it’s always kind of niggled at the back of my head.  She started early intervention at 15 months.  I called them, despite the military pediatricians saying she was fine, because she would say words once and never again.  So I called.  She qualified for speech and later occupational therapy, and it was awesome.  She had oral motor issues, so we taught her ASL and worked hard with nuk brushes and licked whipped cream off mirrors and blew whistles.  She had 250 signs by her second birthday, and by 2.5, her speech was well above average.  There were a couple weirdnesses. We did a brief round of therapy at three because she never asked questions.  She had a weird phobia about fast food playgrounds but really really wanted to participate.  We had a developmental pediatrician exam at three that looked at her for autism (no flags on test) but said she was at risk for ADHD and learning disabilities.  Ironically, one day while working with Anna, the speech therapist looked at four month old Cat and said, “Now that’s a neurotypical child if I ever saw one.  No worries about autism there!”   That actually made me doubt my thoughts about Cat for years.  

We moved a bit before Anna turned four.  I was unable to find a preschool for her, but we got her involved in lots of activities (church, Little Gym, swim lessons, ballet).  One lesson I had picked up from the OT was that she needed a lot of vigorous physical exercise to stay in sync.  So we did.  We started homeschooling when she was 4.5, and she excelled academically.  She got lots of sleep, lots of exercise, listened to lots of books, had lots of social opportunities.  By the time she was about ten, she was rebelling against me and needed more consistent peer experiences than I could provide.  We sent her to Catholic school and she absolutely thrived.  

The plan had always been to send her to public for high school, but finances made us send Cat early too.  She loves the public high school with 2000 students.  She’s taking top tier classes (and the not top tier classes are chess pits of behavior).   She’s making all A’s.  She’s involved in theater.  She loves the excellent art classes.  She is involved in the amazingly good theater.  She has friends and is dating.  She’s been out about being a lesbian since about age 12, which was kinda big at the Catholic school but doesn’t raise an eyebrow at public.  She loves the diversity of public school and thinks in general the kids are nicer.  I think she’s right.  She has started having some gender issues, and I don’t know if it’s genuine dysphoria or teen discomfort with changing body and hating boobs.  

About a year ago, she started really struggling with depression.  At first it seemed to be hormonal but by Christmas it was pretty all encompassing.  We bought her a couple binders.  We got her a counselor.  But things haven’t gotten better.  They’re getting worse.  We put her on birth control pills and then Zoloft.  Going back to dr tomorrow for two week check on that.  It’s a tiny dose.  Not a psychiatrist because there are very few psychiatrists for kids around here.  She’s crying pretty much all the time.  She’s terrified of not making A’s.  She’s worried about college and scholarships and the future.  She’s quit doing a lot of what she enjoys and even when she is doing stuff she likes, she’s not happy.  Everyone in the house is having nightmares about her anxiety and depression.  She’s resisting going to school.  I have offered to homeschool her but she doesn’t want to.  And she’s miss out on the great arts stuff.  I think a chunk of it is sensory.  Her teachers this year are good at keeping order, but there are over 30 kids in most classes, which is a big step up from 12 or so at Catholic.  I think classes at Catholic were more rigorous but they didn’t have the fine arts.  

But my alarm bells are going off.  I don’t think things are getting better.  I worry she needs to be hospitalized.  I worry she needs us to pull her out of school.  But she really really doesn’t want us to. I also cannot find OTs who work with teens with sensory issues, and she doesn’t want to do anything that would make her stand out, like noise canceling headphones or ear plugs.  But even at home she doesn’t want anyone talking.  

Anyway, I am worried.  Not sure letting her stay home is right call but I’m too sick to fight.  And maybe she needs the break?  She still cries and is a mess at home, but it’s definitely better than when she’s in school.  

So anyway.  Thoughts?  Ideas?

I am sure others will be along who have suggestions but I just wanted to give you a hug.  (((Hug)))))

[almondbutterandjelly]

((hugs)) I have no other advice other than to listen to your mama gut.

[Terabith]

48 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

pming you

Hasn’t come through yet 

[hippiemamato3]

I would try to find a good child psychiatrist even if you have to travel a bit. 

[Chris in VA]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Hasn’t come through yet 

Says you can't receive messages

[Terabith]

3 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

pming you

That that is weird.  I have some but I’ll delete them in case it’s full.  I’m sorry.  

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, Terabith said:

That that is weird.  I have some but I’ll delete them in case it’s full.  I’m sorry.  

I deleted some.  In theory there should be more room?  I think there should have been plenty before too, so, I don’t know.  I’m sorry.  

[Katy]

I think you should trust your gut too.  If you feel she needs hospitalized she probably does.  If you're just afraid she will in the future that's okay. Take the time to research now. In the mean time I have 3 points of advice:

1. Check out the websites of the children's hospitals in your state, especially any connected to research universities.  They provide the best evaluations.  You're going to want the best in the state to evaluate her for ASD and/or sensory stuff.  The diagnosis criteria for ASD for girls is different and many don't get diagnosed until older.  If you feel she's suicidal and ASD and/or other similar issues are contributing you're going to want to take her to the emergency room AT the hospital that has the best evaluations. My experience is more with kids with severe trauma and attachment issues, but with many of those types of programs there is a long wait list for evaluations UNLESS the child is an inpatient first.  If you hospitalize them for 3, 5, or 10 days (depending on the program) they get fast tracked into both evaluations and therapy in many places. Obviously that might be different in your area.  Network and research as best you can to figure out what's going on. Talk to all the teachers, therapists, child attorneys, local foster parents, and doctors you know and ask them for their advice. Also ask them who they would ask for advice if this was their child.
2. I would talk to her about this first because it's her body but I'd probably encourage her to try going OFF the pill for 10 days to see if that helps.  I know at least 5 women who between the ages of 15-25 had debilitating depression and anxiety in response to hormonal birth control pills combined with normal daily stress.  That doesn't mean there is no hormonal option for her, but it might mean she's on the wrong combination for her.  Some women can't do hormones at all.
3. Also once you have those things set up check out a cognitive behavioral therapist for her to talk to about all her worries. It's very effective, is typically a limited amount of visits, and focuses on correcting her thought patterns that are lies.  There's homework and it's hard, but it's very effective.

I don't know that much about gender dysphoria.  I've heard it's common at puberty but also that it needs to be lasting (3+ years) to treat.  I also know one young woman who struggled with similar symptoms and her and her therapist came to the conclusion that she'd likely been sexually molested when she was pre-verbal and hitting puberty was a big traumatic trigger for her.  She wasn't even sure when that could have happened unless it was at church or at a babysitter's house she was only at for 6 weeks.

Has anything drastically changed in her diet since she switched schools?  She's not taking huge doses of methylated B vitamins, is she?  I've heard of sudden severe anxiety symptoms cropping up with that, something to do with a secondary genetic defect than MTHFR in the methylation cycle.  It doesn't effect my family so I can't remember details, but I think I read about it on Amy Yasko's site years ago.

[Terabith]

Biggest change since switching schools is not eating lunch.  It’s not good, because she doesn’t eat breakfast either.  She has never eaten breakfast, even as a toddler though, but she dislikes pretty much every packed lunches we’ve tried, and she won’t eat the disgusting school lunches.  They don’t have lockers so something like a lunch box doesn’t really work either.  So she takes some chips or junk and doesn’t eat real food until she comes home from school.  It’s a terrible situation, but I can’t figure out a way around it.  

[Terabith]

I think the dysphoria is less gender identity and more that her body has changed in a way that she has no control over, and she doesn’t like it.  And her boobs are quite large.  We’ve offered to take her to support groups and such but she says no, she really doesn’t fit there.  Up till puberty she was very feminine presenting in play, hobbies, clothing, really to a degree that confused my wanting to undermine gender roles feminist heart (or at least build visual spatial skills with legos).  

I think the chaos of a hospital would be bad for her.  Only advantage might be better aggressive medication calibration.  The therapist is excellent, and we both like her.  It took us awhile to find one who was solid.  

Honestly, I wish we could do a split homeschool/ public school thing where she took academic classes at home or community college and fine arts classes at school.  But, pretty sure they don’t allow that.  I need to find a counselor and find that out for sure.  

[matrips]

Who is she dating?  Could there be issues arising there?  Pressure from her girlfriend to be more different? Or to be less feminine?

What are her friends like?  I’m not very familiar with the gender issues kids face but ‘I have heard’ (🙄) that kids face quite a bit of pressure from their peers. Could her anxiety come from something like that?

[Ali in OR]

I'm reading this more as a public high school staff person. I think the issues you describe are becoming more and more common. Have you reached out to her school counselor at all? Because it has become more common, they might be helpful with ideas about what you can put in place at school to help her. Our kids with anxiety or other diagnosed issues usually get a 504 legal document that spells out things they can do to function better in school: taking a break from class, testing in a quiet place, extra time on tests, etc. And in Oregon it would absolutely be possible to homeschool academics but take electives at school--my kids did that in middle school (band, science, and Spanish all counted as electives).

[Paige]

You don't want her in an inpatient hospital unless the answer to "is she a danger to herself or others" is yes. It's not the place for anything else. If the answer is yes, then the sooner she gets there the better.

You might be able to find a partial hospitalization program with intensive therapy if you think she needs that. A program like that will be more of a benefit if she's stable than an inpatient hospital.

 

 

 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

Biggest change since switching schools is not eating lunch.  It’s not good, because she doesn’t eat breakfast either.  She has never eaten breakfast, even as a toddler though, but she dislikes pretty much every packed lunches we’ve tried, and she won’t eat the disgusting school lunches.  They don’t have lockers so something like a lunch box doesn’t really work either.  So she takes some chips or junk and doesn’t eat real food until she comes home from school.  It’s a terrible situation, but I can’t figure out a way around it.  

 

This may be a huge part of the problem.  

If the basics like nutrition or sleep are off, I think having emotional results is more likely than not.  

[Terabith]

55 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

I'm reading this more as a public high school staff person. I think the issues you describe are becoming more and more common. Have you reached out to her school counselor at all? Because it has become more common, they might be helpful with ideas about what you can put in place at school to help her. Our kids with anxiety or other diagnosed issues usually get a 504 legal document that spells out things they can do to function better in school: taking a break from class, testing in a quiet place, extra time on tests, etc. And in Oregon it would absolutely be possible to homeschool academics but take electives at school--my kids did that in middle school (band, science, and Spanish all counted as electives).

We don’t even know who her guidance counselor is.  She has never met her.  Need to track her down and find out answers to questions.  I’m not optimistic though.   Last year her counselor (who was transferred to a different school) had not even read the handbook.  

[Terabith]

24 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

This may be a huge part of the problem.  

If the basics like nutrition or sleep are off, I think having emotional results is more likely than not.  

I’m sure it is.  But she’s 16.  How do I force her to eat when not in my presence, especially when the food is objectively pretty disgusting and the lunch periods are only 15 minutes long???

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I’m sure it is.  But she’s 16.  How do I force her to eat when not in my presence, especially when the food is objectively pretty disgusting and the lunch periods are only 15 minutes long???

 

Maybe just little steps like for lunch the healthiest chips you can find that would make a good holder for dip, plus a pull top can of salmon, and maybe a spice jar with mixed seasonings  to help it to taste good.  Use the chips to carry the salmon - or a fork.  

1 bite of breakfast and work up gradually. 

Perhaps she’d do it if she saw a study about food impacts on grades

 

[Terabith]

She was drinking a lot of milk in the morning, but then her choir teacher told them it was bad for their voices, which cut out more than a third of her daily calories.  She has food allergies which makes it trickier to find food she can eat at lunch, too.  Will keep working on it though.  

[ktgrok]

Protein bar for lunch? 

Also, has she been tested for:

Vitamin D levels

B vitamins

Anemia including full iron panel

thyroid problems

celiac (often in younger people first symptom is psychiatric!)

other autoimmune markers

Epstein Barr Virus

[Tanaqui]

Could you get her to drink something like carnation instant breakfast or a smoothie in the morning?

[Terabith]

31 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Could you get her to drink something like carnation instant breakfast or a smoothie in the morning?

She won’t drink anything with dairy in the morning.  

Her vitamin D levels are low, but we are supplementing.  Will have them check her again tomorrow at doc’s. Getting supplements and meds into her is rather like pilling a cat.  Thyroid is checked regularly.  So is anemia.  

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

She won’t drink anything with dairy in the morning.  

Her vitamin D levels are low, but we are supplementing.  Will have them check her again tomorrow at doc’s. Getting supplements and meds into her is rather like pilling a cat.  Thyroid is checked regularly.  So is anemia.  

Can you ask them to throw in a celiac panel and autoimmune markers as well, while they are doing bloodwork?

[Tanaqui]

Quote

She won’t drink anything with dairy in the morning.  

 

So a vegan smoothie, perhaps, with no dairy, just fruit and maybe some protein powder? Or some non-dairy meal replacement shake if the sound of the blender is too much for the morning?

Anything to get in some calories and preferably a little fiber and protein as well.

[Chris in VA]

Still can't seem to send a message but I will pop in to say dd eats Clif bars in her car--very easy and hers don't have dairy. I don't know if there is anything yours might be allergic to in them. Something she can just throw in a backpack and eat without even sitting down...

I think there is liquid vitamin Dn if you want to supplement. 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

After finding out about that Lymes can make some with anxiety and depression worse with a few other odd things. I would ask for a Lymes test along with a celiac test.   If they tell you that it is not in your area, tell them to run it anyway.  Most never see the tick or the bullseye.

[maize]

I buy beef jerky as a high protein snack for my kids, is that something she would eat?

Brains do not function well without food.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I buy beef jerky as a high protein snack for my kids, is that something she would eat?

Brains do not function well without food.

 

Me too.

also I usually have Larabars and or RX Bars available...   they pretty much all seem to have dates though if dates were an allergy.  And NUTS in all afaik.  (Homemade could be nut free) But they are limited ingredient and relatively high protein 

because of PSAT today I put a bunch of jerky and a Larabar on the outgoing items area — suggested it be put in backpack to be able to feed brain for test .   That it could come home again if not needed.

ds said he’ll eat some of it for breakfast on bus

I don’t consider it a great breakfast but way better than no food

I  also opened a can of sardines  for a morning where even a bite or 2 could help, but that and also available dinner leftovers (which are often breakfast) was rejected 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Pen

[Katy]

Oh goodness.  I'd be tempted to call that choir teacher and give her a piece of my mind about spreading old wives tales with no evidence in a population prone to eating disorders.

DD needs to drink milk.  If she has food allergies and is picky, cutting out the healthy calories she will eat isn't an option.  She's already aware of which allergies cause her problems.  There have been many studies over the years on the myth that dairy causes mucous production, which could affect the voice.  Almost all of them found that there is either no connection or that there is a connection in less than 10% of people, all of whom have a genetic issue.  She's old enough now that she shouldn't assume that every authority figure knows what they are talking about.  Maybe the choir teacher is one of the few people who do produce more mucus.  Maybe she's a dolt who was told that cutting out dairy was a good way to stay skinny and it was good for your voice back when she was a kid and she has no critical thinking skills whatsoever.  DD should not take everything this woman says as gospel when it comes to areas outside her expertise, like nutrition.

Dramatically lowering calories raises cortisol (stress) levels to force a person to get up and go find food.  That's fine in hunter gatherer survival situations, but today, when the stress isn't about finding food but about a million things off in the future it can be disabling.  I'd flat out tell her she needs to either go back to drinking the milk or she needs to come up with nutritionally sound ways to make up the calories because if the biggest thing that's changed is substituting junk food for healthy food and her mental health is at risk she isn't making good decisions.  She has to take care of herself and she isn't doing it.  She deserves better and she should treat herself better.

[catz]

I will say I have 2 kids that take voice lessons and are singers and they really only avoid dairy for singing when they have a cold.  Otherwise, it doesn't seem to bother them. I think that was pretty obnoxious of a choir teacher to say if the kids have a period early in the day or near lunch.  

It's not clear to me, did she just start at this high school this fall?  Or has she been at this particular school for a while already?  

[Chris in VA]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Oh goodness.  I'd be tempted to call that choir teacher and give her a piece of my mind about spreading old wives tales with no evidence in a population prone to eating disorders.

DD needs to drink milk.  If she has food allergies and is picky, cutting out the healthy calories she will eat isn't an option.  She's already aware of which allergies cause her problems.  There have been many studies over the years on the myth that dairy causes mucous production, which could affect the voice.  Almost all of them found that there is either no connection or that there is a connection in less than 10% of people, all of whom have a genetic issue.  She's old enough now that she shouldn't assume that every authority figure knows what they are talking about.  Maybe the choir teacher is one of the few people who do produce more mucus.  Maybe she's a dolt who was told that cutting out dairy was a good way to stay skinny and it was good for your voice back when she was a kid and she has no critical thinking skills whatsoever.  DD should not take everything this woman says as gospel when it comes to areas outside her expertise, like nutrition.

Dramatically lowering calories raises cortisol (stress) levels to force a person to get up and go find food.  That's fine in hunter gatherer survival situations, but today, when the stress isn't about finding food but about a million things off in the future it can be disabling.  I'd flat out tell her she needs to either go back to drinking the milk or she needs to come up with nutritionally sound ways to make up the calories because if the biggest thing that's changed is substituting junk food for healthy food and her mental health is at risk she isn't making good decisions.  She has to take care of herself and she isn't doing it.  She deserves better and she should treat herself better.

My best girlhood friend did her dissertation on mucus and milk and vocalists. She is a professor at Baker U in Kansas. Found no causation. Just fwiw. 

[Terabith]

She started a year ago.  Second year there.  I’ve told her all the stats on dairy and mucous production, but Anna says she notices a difference in herself....

[Pen]

There are plenty of things she can do to eat with it no dairy

 

The UltraMind Solution: The Simple Way to Defeat Depression, Overcome Anxiety, and Sharpen Your Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/1416549722/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_cZZPDbFMSJJAH

[Pen]

Does she eat extremely good food at dinner?

 

Maybe she needs a year off school to get her nutritional and emotional health improved. 

Those are more important than straight A’s IMO. 

 

[SanDiegoMom]

Sleep and food have a HUGE impact on anxiety.  I just flew out to help my college daughter through a tough time, and a full third of her breakdown was caused by lack of food and sleep. (she wasn't eating because of being on meds which suppressed her appetite, but the result was still major anxiety and depression).  

When my dd is in the middle of a crisis and trying to figure out what is going on I always tell her that we can't figure out ANYTHING until the food, sleep and hydration issues are taken care of.  85 percent of the time that fixes everything.  (she tends to not drink enough either, which raises her heart rate, makes her dizzy, and increases anxiety as well).  

[Pen]

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/taking-the-pill-as-a-teenager-may-have-long-lasting-effect-on-your-risk-of-depression

 

And isn’t Zoloft one of the pharmaceuticals that has been associated with increased depression, anxiety, and even suicide in teens?

[Pen]

Possibly of interest to listen to while you are resting while sick:

https://drpeterbregginshow.podbean.com/e/the-dr-peter-breggin-hour-–-041019/

[Terabith]

She eats well at dinner.  And she’s always been picky.  Catholic school had a real chef, so their food was amazing and she ate well there.  She is picky and sensory issues, and we’ve fought the eating breakfast and lunch stuff for YEARS.   She doesn’t like leftovers.   She doesn’t like cold food.   Basically, unless we take her to Subway or somewhere like that with fresh food for lunch, she won’t eat it.   And almost nothing will compel her to eat breakfast.   Even as a baby she wouldn’t eat before noon.  She basically has morning sickness in that food in the morning makes her queasy. 

All of the SSRIs have black box warnings, but she’s had multiple family members do well on it, including her sister who started at five.  

I am sorry to sound so excuse making.  It’s just we have been working on this stuff her whole life.  Lunch at Catholic school was more like a college lunch plan with delicious food, so she ate there.  Fifteen minutes, no friends to eat lunch with, constantly being moved from one lunch period to another, no way to carry a lunch box and terrible smells in the cafeteria aren’t conducive to anyone eating.  Everyone agrees.  But I don’t know how to fix it.  And I know from previous experience that pulling her out of school won’t fix the eating problem.  

[Terabith]

38 minutes ago, Pen said:

Does she eat extremely good food at dinner?

 

Maybe she needs a year off school to get her nutritional and emotional health improved. 

Those are more important than straight A’s IMO. 

 

I totally agree straight A’s aren’t the most important thing.  But it’s not like she eats well at home either, except at dinner.  She usually eats a big snack later too.  And I’m doing the best I can emotionally too.  But if we pull her out of school, she loses social stuff and extracurricular and she can’t go back, because high school doesn’t count homeschool credits.  And it would be against her will.  Pulling her out burns all the bridges, from what I can understand.  We can’t afford to send her back to Catholic.  

[Pen]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:36 AM, Terabith said:

es.  Who has sailed through life as a high achiever, friendly, social, with good mental health and excellent executive functioning.

 

Above description Doesn’t seem to entirely fit with: 

 

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

always been picky.  Catholic school had a real chef, so their food was amazing and she ate well there.  She is picky and sensory issues, and we’ve fought the eating breakfast and lunch stuff for YEARS.   She doesn’t like leftovers.   She doesn’t like cold food.  

 

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Basically, unless we take her to Subway or somewhere like that with fresh food for lunch, she won’t eat it.   And almost nothing will compel her to eat breakfast.  

 

I guess as fast food goes Subway is not one of the worst—but when I think of “fresh food” it isn’t what comes to my mind

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Even as a baby she wouldn’t eat before noon.  She basically has morning sickness in that food in the morning makes her queasy. 

 

I have had that too.  It takes figuring out what can work.  

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

All of the SSRIs have black box warnings, but she’s had multiple family members do well on it, including her sister who started at five.  

 

Has this particular child shown improvemt on bc pills snd Zoloft?

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I am sorry to sound so excuse making.  It’s just we have been working on this stuff her whole life.  Lunch at Catholic school was more like a college lunch plan with delicious food, so she ate there.  Fifteen minutes, no friends to eat lunch with, constantly being moved from one lunch period to another, no way to carry a lunch box and terrible smells in the cafeteria aren’t conducive to anyone eating.  Everyone agrees.  But I don’t know how to fix it.  And I know from previous experience that pulling her out of school won’t fix the eating problem.  

 

Why cant she take a lunch box? 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I totally agree straight A’s aren’t the most important thing.  But it’s not like she eats well at home either, except at dinner.  She usually eats a big snack later too.  And I’m doing the best I can emotionally too.  But if we pull her out of school, she loses social stuff and extracurricular and she can’t go back, because high school doesn’t count homeschool credits.  And it would be against her will.  Pulling her out burns all the bridges, from what I can understand.  We can’t afford to send her back to Catholic.  

 

Ok I get that. 

She sounds smart. Can she use her intelligence to figure out her own nutrition better? 

[Lecka]

Just commenting — I know for my son — if he stays home then he spends a lot of time alone and he misses being around other kids and participating in things.  His mood goes very downhill.  And then it also makes it harder for him to actually participate in anything, because his anxiety just goes up about things when he is home, too.

I totally understand thinking it’s not a great option.  

I think it’s just a hard situation!  You are doing good things with her 🙂

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Ok I get that. 

She sounds smart. Can she use her intelligence to figure out her own nutrition better? 

In theory....  Been trying since she was about four though.  Her solution is to take her out for lunch every day for lunch.  

She is also a born night owl.  From infancy, her sleep and eating norms were completely at odds with society.  If she ever has more than three days off from school, she reverts to this schedule.  I think if she can get a job on the night shift, she’d be much happier. She’s much more flexible about what she will eat at night, too.  She just generally coped much better on a night schedule.  But high school society doesn’t run that way.  

[Pen]

Maybe she could get an app like Cronometer and keep track of her nutrition, see what might be low...   Without changing anything yet, but just to get a picture of her current nutritional reality 

Vitamin D could be rubbed into skin if she doesn’t like pills

I wonder if her love of Subway sandwiches indicates a gluten problem 

 

[Pen]

Why can’t she take a lunchbox to school?

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

After finding out about that Lymes can make some with anxiety and depression worse with a few other odd things. I would ask for a Lymes test along with a celiac test.   If they tell you that it is not in your area, tell them to run it anyway.  Most never see the tick or the bullseye.

Good point! I forgot about that one because it was negative for my kid - but definitely can cause neuropsychiatric symptoms. As can PANDAS although this doesn't quite seem to fit that one. 

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Sleep and food have a HUGE impact on anxiety.  I just flew out to help my college daughter through a tough time, and a full third of her breakdown was caused by lack of food and sleep. (she wasn't eating because of being on meds which suppressed her appetite, but the result was still major anxiety and depression).  

When my dd is in the middle of a crisis and trying to figure out what is going on I always tell her that we can't figure out ANYTHING until the food, sleep and hydration issues are taken care of.  85 percent of the time that fixes everything.  (she tends to not drink enough either, which raises her heart rate, makes her dizzy, and increases anxiety as well).  

Oh yeah - I tend not to drink enough and it makes me very anxious. 

52 minutes ago, Terabith said:

She eats well at dinner.  And she’s always been picky.  Catholic school had a real chef, so their food was amazing and she ate well there.  She is picky and sensory issues, and we’ve fought the eating breakfast and lunch stuff for YEARS.   She doesn’t like leftovers.   She doesn’t like cold food.   Basically, unless we take her to Subway or somewhere like that with fresh food for lunch, she won’t eat it.   And almost nothing will compel her to eat breakfast.   Even as a baby she wouldn’t eat before noon.  She basically has morning sickness in that food in the morning makes her queasy. 

All of the SSRIs have black box warnings, but she’s had multiple family members do well on it, including her sister who started at five.  

I am sorry to sound so excuse making.  It’s just we have been working on this stuff her whole life.  Lunch at Catholic school was more like a college lunch plan with delicious food, so she ate there.  Fifteen minutes, no friends to eat lunch with, constantly being moved from one lunch period to another, no way to carry a lunch box and terrible smells in the cafeteria aren’t conducive to anyone eating.  Everyone agrees.  But I don’t know how to fix it.  And I know from previous experience that pulling her out of school won’t fix the eating problem.  

Honestly? Will she eat/can she eat say, a snickers bar? At least some protein in it, and maybe those grab and go bags of sliced apples? both cold go in a purse or backpack - no lunchbox required and could be eaten in between classes if not at lunch. 

[Katy]

What if you bought subway sandwiches in advance and had her pack those?  It's been a long time since I could eat wheat but back in the day they had packets of mustard and mayo and such if you didn't like them to put it on the food early. 

Not sure how much cheaper that would be than Catholic school though.

[Terabith]

14 minutes ago, Katy said:

What if you bought subway sandwiches in advance and had her pack those?  It's been a long time since I could eat wheat but back in the day they had packets of mustard and mayo and such if you didn't like them to put it on the food early. 

Not sure how much cheaper that would be than Catholic school though.

Not “fresh.”   Believe me, I feel like we’ve tried it all.  Not trying to be obstreperous.  She throws it out.  

[Tanaqui]

Is she eligible for some sort of therapy to help her with these issues? I mean, surely she'd rather be able to eat whatever, whenever too.