What is normal for young teen?

[MamaSprout]

When is sneaking behavior in a young teen worth calling a mental health professional?

ETA: personal details removed. Thanks all!

Edited June 6, 2019 by MamaSprout

[MEmama]

Food: Maybe. Are there restrictions? Or is it just sweets or similar? 

Books: Totally normal. Would you have wanted your mom to know you were reading the racy stuff? Lol

Cell phones: Normal. Definitely. In our day it was Cosmo or Playboy or a hundred other things; now it's phones (though not necessarily for the same reason).

I think you are right picking your battles. The fact is that kids are much more savvy than we are, and can get around any rules we set. I'm not saying they necessarily will all the time, or that we shouldn't set them when it's truly important, but it's a fact of teenagerhood. Pushing parental boundaries is nothing new, but it's definitely hard to navigate. And honestly it plays a role in the natural separation that needs to occur, no matter how much it hurts us or makes us sad/frustrated/unsure. 

Eta: I don't mean there shouldn't be rules and consequences, but in the realm of "do these behaviours sound normal", I would say yes, absolutely (maybe not the food). 

Edited June 4, 2019 by MEmama

[alisoncooks]

So... I totally remember sneaking adult-themed/racy novels as a young teen. (And I turned out pretty normal, maybe even borderline prudish, lol.) Maybe a frank conversation about why you think it's inappropriate or why you don't want her reading it? (You've probably done so; then I'd probably say "fine, read it...but only if you can read it out loud to memaw* and papa next time they visit...")

The food sneaking sounds like it's been ongoing? If so, I'd probably seek outside help. 

Phone: half my parenting battles are phone related. I think it's just a sign of the times. Agreeing with above that that doesn't mean there aren't rules/consequences...but the conflict seems to be common. 

*names changed to protect the innocent. {snort} 😂

[MamaSprout]

Thanks. I like the read out loud to grandma approach!

Edited June 6, 2019 by MamaSprout

[Sherry in OH]

Food sneaking - The teen takes food to eat in his/her room instead of in kitchen or dining room?  Teen takes and eats food you expressly told teen was purchased for meals or a specific event?  You are strict about only eating at meal times and the teen helps him/herself to food at at other times?   The first two are annoying and worthy of consequences, but also normal.   The later is unreasonable adult expectations.  Teens get hungry.  Have foods they are allowed to eat between meals.   Non-normal would be the teen taking and hiding food (as opposed to taking it to eat) or a teen deliberately eating food to which he/she has a severe allergy.

Reading adult-themed books and magazines is entirely normal.  So is hiding it from parents.

Cell phone/Internet issues are unfortunately also normal.

I agree with the previous poster, normal does not mean no consequences for the action.  It means that most teens test boundaries and these are common ways of doing so.

 

[gardenmom5]

why is he sneaking food?  is he hungry?  is he going after "snacks"?   are there more nutritious foods allowed that are easy to grab?   this age boy - needs more protein. even when my boys ate dinner - they'd have "2nd dinner".  which could consist of chips with a lot of cheese, burritos, or a hamburger.

 

[MamaSprout]

The food thing is weird.

Edited June 6, 2019 by MamaSprout

[Lady Marmalade]

If hiding food has been happening since the age of 5, I would lean towards something that she should probably see a counselor for.  Sounds like some kind of disorder, something compulsive that maybe she can't control.

I wouldn't be harsh about what you've found, BUT I would address the simple issue of food being under the bed- especially open food.  We've had too many issues with ants and rodents in homes in the past, so we have a simple rule of no food in the bedrooms at all.  The exception being that candy is okay IF it is in wrappers and is kept in/on a desk or nightstand.  And of course, wrappers need to be properly disposed of.   We have a spot in the dining room where the kids can keep their personal candy stashes and it is assured that no one else will take their treats.  There's almost always an assortment of candy there, as well as varying jars of spreds like Nutella and cookie butter.   Maybe it would help your DD out if she had a safe spot in the home where she can keep her own personal snack stash?  

Agreeing with others that the adult themed fan-fic is normal for the age.  I was reading VC Andrews at that age (and hiding it from my parents)... the quality of that is certainly not much better than a lot of fanfiction.  

I might be concerned about cellphone issues being combined with normal exploration of the adult themed materials.  I would make sure to have a conversation or two about being smart with online chatting and apps and the dangers of traffickers and predators today. 

[MEmama]

The food thing doesn't sound that weird to me. Just because she doesn't feel good after eating too much chocolate doesn't mean she doesn't still want to--even adults do that (just one more brownie even though, or one more drink even though I'll have a headache in the morning...). And peanut butter--aren't you telling her to eat more protein? Maybe she'd rather just have it at her disposal without being all public about it. I know I can be weirdly private about totally benign things.

I think it's a given teens are going to be weird and sneaky and make bad choices. It's in the learning that we mature. But I also believe that teens need autonomy and privacy. We can't expect they are going to tell us everything; at some point that really isn't healthy. (I'm not implying that's your expectation, to be clear).

I think things like "mature" reading material doesn't need to be called out. I mean, what would be the purpose? Making a Big Deal out of it is only going to cause embarrassment and subsequently a level of resentment (and possibly even more sneaking). It just isn't important in the long run. The food might be a bigger issue, assuming there is more to the story. If it's just some candy wrappers and peanut butter, no biggie, but you know best if it's a more pressing issue than that. 

[MamaSprout]

So not weird? I feel like I should deal with the rule breaking/ sneaking somehow, but I'm not sure what's appropriate here.

Edited June 6, 2019 by MamaSprout

[PeterPan]

If you have any thought the dc is ADHD, sometimes the food sneaking goes with that. Vyvanse, an ADHD stimulant med, is on-label use for binge eating. Even though that's not exactly what you're saying she's doing, it had the effect of curbing that food sneaking for my dd.

[freesia]

I think it would be worth it to find a counselor about the food thing.  It's something I keep an eye on here bc my family has a history of eating disorders, my dh's family was super super controlling about healthy food and in our own family dh has an allergy where he can't eat a lot of things and I have to eat low carb bc of blood sugar.  So, I feel like, as a family we have some baggage (even though we fight against it) and they see food restriction in action (even though it's for life and death reasons.)  Ds was taking treats he got elsewhere to his room and eating them "without asking."  My approach was super casual.  I told him that I thought the reason was bc he didn't want to eat treats in front of the others, but that I didn't want him eating in his room bc we have trouble sometimes with mice or bugs.  So, I brought it into the open, but in a non-punitive way, iykwim?

Maybe find out why she is breaking the rules/sneaking??  Make it collaborative--we need this to stop bc of vermin, help us understand.  What can we do to work together so this doesn't happen.

And, bc I do not know your family--be very, very sure that you are not trying to control the food bc you see dc as overweight.  Nothing made me more hungrier/likely to binge or want to sneak food than going to my grandmother's.  I adored her, but she would say things like, "You don't want a cookie, do you?" I knew the correct answer was no even if I really, really wanted one.  Weight and food was a huge deal in that household.  I'm sure it was baggage from her growing up.  She was a wonderful grandmother otherwise, really. So, I know that this is an issue that crops up in other "good families."  So, in your case I'd probably release all restrictions (other than maybe no food 1 hour before dinner) for a while.  And make sure your heart really means it and you aren't "really" thinking--you just ate an hour ago and you are getting quite plump.  So, if that is difficult or doesn't work, seek help.

[SanDiegoMom]

 

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

If you have any thought the dc is ADHD, sometimes the food sneaking goes with that. Vyvanse, an ADHD stimulant med, is on-label use for binge eating. Even though that's not exactly what you're saying she's doing, it had the effect of curbing that food sneaking for my dd.

 

I started replying earlier and got called away and came back to this, which was what I was about to say! If there's any thought of possible Adhd, this was definitely what one of the symptoms was for us.  Jars of nutella, candy wrappers, chips, all were found under the bed for years.  My dd theorized it was the dopamine deficiency.  She's on meds now and doesn't have any issues.  

[MEmama]

I think re the food sneaking, I'd say go with your mama gut. Is she harming herself? Is she overweight or using it for comfort? Those things would concern me. But if she just wants the autonomy (even though you allow it), or if she's keeping things in her room that YOU can't have, those things feel different and not worrisome on their own. Sometimes it's just a quirk--for example, I don't like to eat dessert around other people, I prefer to be alone. I don't have an unhealthy relationship with sweets, it's just a preference, it feels more indulgent. So it's weird, sure, but not concerning. Maybe her things look similar, or maybe not. I'm a big believer in not overreacting (or trying not to, so hard sometimes!) but also in mama intuition. 

I would probably address that issue from the bug angle. It's getting to warmer, we can't allow the potential for infestations. How gross would it be to find a cockroach under your bed! So instead, let's stash our treats in the special treat cabinet (fun idea from a pp), label the peanut butter in the fridge with her name, whatever. 

The rule breaking... Gads. It's so hard! I'm muddling my way through some teen stuff too, with a lot of sleepless nights and agonizing. Mostly I'm *trying* to keep my eye on the big picture-how much does this really matter in the long run? And how I can best preserve the relationship? Because ultimately--as long as no real harm is occurring--that's my priority. I tend to think maturity will smooth out a lot of the rough edges, but our relationship is built on me not unfairly freaking out too much in the moment (or least owning up when I do). 

So that means relaxing more rules than I might have envisioned, looking away when I don't necessarily like what I see, and trying to keep my mouth shut when what will come out will sound like nagging. It also means sometimes calling things out and letting them hang, and often reminding myself sternly that teens need to learn to own their choices. 

[Pen]

I think if you feel a niggling concern in mamma gut it would be good to get some outside help—without making a big deal of it.   But to me it sounds like possible depression issue — with depression as more concerning than the sneaking.  So I’d want some outside help . 

[freesia]

Oh and the suicidal after chocolate thing concerns me, too.    I think there are definite food issues that you need a professional to sort out.

[Pen]

On the missing phone, is it set up with tracking? My Ds has his buddies on something, possibly Instagram, that allows him to see everyone’s location most of the time.  I don’t know how to use it, but he told me in event he’s missing ask one of his friends to track at least where the phone is. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, MamaSprout said:

Yeah, that's why I'm asking for input. I'm fine with sitting at the table eating peanut with a spoon out of the jar. Any time, day or night. Just don't spoil your dinner. We've discussed this so.many.times. I'm really weird about bugs and mice in the house, though, and she had so many spoons and bowls we were getting low in the kitchen.

So not weird? I feel like I should deal with the rule breaking/ sneaking somehow, but I'm not sure what's appropriate here.

 

Probably fairly normal, but If me, I’d probably want to see someone to particularly check on possible depression issues, and the food thing.  

Could she have bulemia, for example, would be a concern to me.  If she’s eating a lot o, candy, etc., How is her health?  Is she using sugar and maybe chocolate to self medicate depression? 

I’d rather look into it now when it’s not clear there is a problem, rather than wait see and maybe have an emergency situation.

plus it can take awhile to find a good person to see, and longer to then get an appointment 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pen

[Lady Marmalade]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

On the missing phone, is it set up with tracking? My Ds has his buddies on something, possibly Instagram, that allows him to see everyone’s location most of the time.  I don’t know how to use it, but he told me in event he’s missing ask one of his friends to track at least where the phone is. 

Snapchat has the location option for friends, though they need to have that feature enabled.

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:

Snapchat has the location option for friends, though they need to have that feature enabled.

 

That’s probably it.

also there could be built in tracking

a relative’s devices were stolen and tracked to the thieves 

plus of course calling and listening for ring in case it’s at home and on

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pen

[SanDiegoMom]

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That’s probably it.

also there could be built in tracking

a relative’s devices were stolen and tracked to the thieves 

plus of course calling and listening for ring in case it’s at home and on

I think when she says phone is "missing"  she means the phone is not at home and the teen is away for the week at a place where no phones are allowed.  In other words,  she brought the phone when she wasn't supposed to. 

[Terabith]

I vote for normal, including the food, given that you guys have a pretty restrictive diet and you are pretty strict about sugar.  

[LMD]

The food sneaking sounds extreme to me. I mean, I know my teen (and preteen) 'sneaks' sugary stuff if it's around. Things like, putting a gigantic heaped spoon in their drink, taking pinches of cookie dough as they go past the freezer, or keeping a small stash in their bag. I don't make a big deal of it, I just remind them that making that choice is choosing the consequences. If I found that many dishes in their room (not just the occasional forgotten plate or cup), they would get the job of family dishwasher. 

The racy book thing, I'd provably have a quick look through just to check it wasn't extremely unhealthy. Normal curiosity would not be a big deal. I'd probably just say to her, 'I happened across your book, just reminding you that if you need to talk, I'm always here.' I might counter it with some books that have healthy romances in it. My teen dd has always been a bit boy crazy so I do intentionally have books with sweet romances around...

The phone thing is a whole nuther ball game for me. Curious about sex + unsupervised internet access = very dangerous. My kids know that if they use their devices this way, they lose them indefinitely.

[MamaSprout]

Bulimia unlikely.

ADHD hadn't occurred to me, I'll look into it more.

Edited June 6, 2019 by MamaSprout

[Pen]

4 hours ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

I think when she says phone is "missing"  she means the phone is not at home and the teen is away for the week at a place where no phones are allowed.  In other words,  she brought the phone when she wasn't supposed to. 

 

I understand.

If it has tracking of some sort she can see,  perhaps, and if it really matters, if it is wherever the child is. 

[Pen]

Leaving notes to herself to eat in kitchen is interesting. That actually does sound more like adhd / executive functioning. 

When she felt suicidal after lots of chocolate what was that about?  

[katilac]

I would not call a mental health professional because of her sneaking behavior; I would call a mental health professional because she is depressed. 

How did you come across fanfiction hidden in her room? Unless someone is kicking it really old school and producing a zine, fanfiction is online. It's possible to print it - if you have heavy filters or strong restrictions, a friend may be printing it for her. 

"Adult-themed" covers a lot of territory, but if you basically mean it has sexy fun times in it, that's not something that would worry me too much. 

Sneaking sweets/candy is solidly normal for teens. If I had a dollar for every kid I saw eating candy after their mom told me they never eat candy . . . I could buy a lot of candy. The history of it is the only thing that would give me pause. What happened after she said she was suicidal at 12, was there any follow-up? And do you have a sugar-free house or do you just not buy candy?  

Sneaking a cell phone to a phone-free event: totes normal. If you don't want to a teen to have their cell phone at a certain time/place, you should make a point of taking it. We're almost there, better give me your phone so we don't forget! 

16 hours ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

I think when she says phone is "missing"  she means the phone is not at home and the teen is away for the week at a place where no phones are allowed.  In other words,  she brought the phone when she wasn't supposed to. 

Actually, she said she found the candy wrappers while she was looking for the lost phone, so she doesn't seem certain that the teen has it. 

19 hours ago, Lady Marmalade said:

Agreeing with others that the adult themed fan-fic is normal for the age.  I was reading VC Andrews at that age (and hiding it from my parents)... the quality of that is certainly not much better than a lot of fanfiction.  

I've read lots of fanfic that was of considerably higher quality than VC Andrews. And considerably less disturbing, even when explicit sexy times are involved. 

[SanDiegoMom]

14 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

ADHD hadn't occurred to me, although I'm probably an adult case and her older brother should have been checked for it. I'll look into it more. She has had some depression, as did our older kids at various times. She seems to do every thing earlier and more extreme than her siblings though, so again maybe worth a closer look.

There's a lot to the ADHD discovery that I didn't about myself - ways it affected my daughter and our relationship.  The emotional regulation issues were probably our biggest problem but I had no idea that that was part of ADHD. I only really knew about the hyperactive kind myself.   My daughter was very much EXTREME everything. Highs and lows were so much MORE than the other kids.  And the quest for independence and autonomy  without the executive functioning to support it - yikes.

My daughter snuck food, watched netflix compulsively into the late hours and now looking back she realized that she was pretty depressed and anxious.   It was a super hard time in her life (ages 11-15 basically) .