Ema Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I could really use some insight from people removed from my life. But first, a bit of background... DH is a pastor in a denomination in which churches usually supply a parsonage for their pastors. When we took our current call, 4.5 years ago, we had three kids, two girls and one boy. The parsonage had two bedrooms (one master w/bathroom), bathroom, living room, dining room, kitchen and fireplace room on one level, built so the rooms empty into each other to form a circle-ish layout ( the bedrooms are off the circle on one side of the house). There is also a basement.. The basement is split into two huge rooms, one unfinished and one semi-finished. The semi-finished room has the washer/dryer, cinderblock walls (painted to try to keep water out) and is just very prison cell-like. They did put in a window for a fire escape, but I still think anyone would be hard pressed to call it a bedroom. We used it for a “playroom”/guest prison-cell. Well, 4.5 years and one baby (girl) later, we still have two bedrooms, and no wall or bedroom in the basement. Around this past mid-summer I moved all three kids from the master bedroom to the basement since they were needing more room and since DH and I needed more room for the baby with us, and we wanted to try to have a guest room. Maybe the council would step up and finish the basement! Fast-forward to today. Oldest DD is starting to need more privacy from brother (all in that one huge cell-like room with no divider), water is coming up through the floor, through the walls, and from the furnace room into the ‘bedroom.” No sump pump, one drain in basement but water does not run that direction. Water has come in before, but not like this. And with the 6” rains we have been getting every spring, it will get worse. Moved all Kids’ stuff I could upstairs. Mattresses in living room, clothes everywhere. Don’t want to have to move kids upstairs every spring, no room to have them up here for two weeks. Council no closer to making this house livable for 6 people. Do I move all kids back into master bedroom and just put up some sort of divider so DD can have privacy? Do DH and I move our bedroom to fireplace room even though that would be very strange and awkward? I just don’t want to have the kids in that unfinished prison cell anymore! What would you do? How would you make the house work? Need some creative minds since mine is fried by frustration right now. Sorry so long. Really tired and frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 As a landlord this council is not doing their job. They have to do something about the flooding issue--that is unacceptable. I would start there. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 What is the rental market like in your area? Perhaps the church would be open to paying a housing stipend in lieu of providing housing, especially in light of the repairs needed to make the house watertight. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinV Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Keep the master for yourself, put two younger kids in the other bedroom, and the two oldest girls in the fireplace room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I would NOT let anyone sleep in the basement where water comes in. Mold / moisture in the air is horrible for your lungs and health in general. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, Sherry in OH said: What is the rental market like in your area? Perhaps the church would be open to paying a housing stipend in lieu of providing housing, especially in light of the repairs needed to make the house watertight. This is what I'd push for 14 minutes ago, CinV said: Keep the master for yourself, put two younger kids in the other bedroom, and the two oldest girls in the fireplace room. With this as a second alternative. Many many churches are leaving the model of the parsonage. My dad and my dh's dad are pastors. They hated the parsonage model, mostly because they felt that it put their families at risk. Like if something happens to dad, the kids and wife have to move out more quickly than they would otherwise. It also sometimes puts churches in a position of landlord/real estate agent. Can you have the council people tour the parsonage? They may be thinking "that's plenty of space" when in reality it's not working at all for your family. Perhaps they will be up for putting up some doors/dividers around the circle (fireplace room) and installing sump pump in the basement. Are there women on the council? If not, I'd request that the men and their wives tour it together. What looks doable to a man can look impossible to a woman. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. The drainage in the basement is concerning. Many parts of the US have had major rains this year and I can imagine how much of a hassle that is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Not used for a bedroom, but it should work. I bought a Portable Partition from Walmart. It is about 5ft by 5ft. Light weight tube frame on wheels. Light does not pass through. It is very easy to move when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I would have DH go to the church elders/ supervisors and say the current house isn’t working for your family. IMO, it’s also a health hazard😳 What are their suggestions or solutions? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 It doesn’t sound like the house is suitable for housing your family size even without the flooding issue. Does your husband have a good relationship with the council? Would church members band together and get the basement fixed properly? Would the church consider possibly selling the parsonage and instead provide a housing stipend? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Thanks for all your thoughts and reassurance! We have spoken to the council and they did do a walk-through (men and women) this winter. To no avail. They seem to think that we can survive here the way things are just fine! There are some sympathetic council members, but the majority, not to mention the man in charge of property and management, are more worried about the budget than the comfort of our family. He also thinks radon and the like are hoaxes. Sigh. As for giving us a housing allowance, that would actually cost them more than what they are giving us now, so that is out. We do have as good a relationship with the council as we can...this church has been known to be hard on pastors and they haven’t had one for more than 7 years since the 40’s. (And it is the first time kids have lived in this parsonage) So...yeah. The church is also painting and repairing the sanctuary, which was much needed, so funds and pockets have already been raided. After some thought about CinV’s suggestion I decided to move the two girls tp the master bedroom, ds to the small bedroom, and DH and I to the fireplace room. It also doubles as an office and is right off the kitchen, so having the girls there would have posed some problems due to noise and accessibility. When baby is old enough she can then be moved in with the girls....if we are still here! Not the best possible solution, but the best of the worst options. At least DH and I can say our bedroom has a fireplace (never mind we aren’t allowed to use it!). DH may be shocked when he gets home, but this was the best I could do alone. I hope you all are able to keep your basements if not dry, then not flooded. But at least spring is here, right? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonhawk Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Between the living room, dining room and fireplace room, can any be used for a bed room? Perhaps either the one with the most privacy or the least walkthrough. I'd probably put either a) the people who don't need the most privacy or b) put the people who are up latest/are the loudest into it. Then dividers around any part of the room that may need a little bit of help. In our case, I'd probably take this room for me and DH, since we're up the latest. Bonus points if you decide to take the room with the most walkthrough and least privacy for yourselves, then invite members of the Council over and have to have them walk through your bedroom for dinner. No idea on the basement issues, but that seems to be something that needs to be taken care of regardless of if it ever gets finished to a bedroom level of comfort. eta: looks like you figured it out already, oops. Sorry the Council didn't see the necessity the same way. I hope the basement gets sorted at least. Edited March 14, 2019 by Moonhawk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Is your husband looking at staying in this position long term? If so, can you divide the master up with partitions, walls of book cases, etc and hang up curtains on a shower rod for more privacy? This is tough. I have 2 friends that are pastor's wives and both dislike the parsonage idea as they never feel like they have their own home to do with what they want, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Can church be used for anything to free up house at all? Office, playroom, storage, for example? If you can figure out how to get the main bedroom back for adults that might help. I’d forget guest room concept. Maybe a blow up mattress for living room. Can any room have loft like spots or privacy nook beds for the kids? Could an extra room be built on as another bedroom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I think I would want dh to put his name out there as available to be called. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmasc Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I understand that the church may not be able to afford to pay you a stipend since the parsonage is likely paid off already. However, not fixing the leaking is absolutely not ok. I would definitely have DH speak to them about fixing it to a livable condition ASAP. Any landlord would have to fix this problem, and a loving church who wants to keep their pastor should fix it too, imho. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Good grief. This is one of the reasons that I swore I would never be a pastors wife. My dad was a pastor and I hated the way that church people often felt that the pastors family wasn’t worthy of having anything nice. So many church members would never put up with this situation but they deem it acceptable for their minister. (why yes I am a little bitter.) this is different from churches where everyone lives in extreme. Poverty. I observed that the more affluent the church the crappier the leaders treated the pastors family financially. The poorer churches were more likely to give cheerfully and not resent anything “nice” that the pastor had. I love churches and I love pastors and their families. Ministry is often such a thankless job. Bless your heart. I’m sorry your stuck there. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 They had better do the maintenance that needs done, and quickly or they will end up with a bad situation. There was never enough money for updates and repairs to our rectory, and the congregation didn't know that some things were really bad. We had $500 a year to do improvements. That meant the curtains were hardly ever cleaned because they cost 2 bucks a pleat and would have cost nearly $1K to clean. There was mold from a leak and many other problems, as well as design updates that someone recommended when they got their new priest. Now, I did not agree at all with some of that, for the record, but not my monkeys anymore. Some of the wear and tear was just inevitable, and some was caused by just patching things up instead of totally fixing root causes. We did feel taken care of, for the most part. But then they got someone new, and decided to go all out. They put new windows in (which, imo, they didnt need), a new roof, french doors to the livingroom, new lighting, new kitchen (didnt agree with that since it had been new 17 years ago) and many other things. The cost was 167K. Your elders or whatever you call them need to take care of you. There are many places that will. Find another job. While you look, take a video and show it to the elders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 This isn’t just a small house problem. I got a little excited, because I can work with small houses! You have a bit of a different issue. When we were much younger, we had a tiny, ugly, water damaged, 3rd floor walk-up apartment in a very bad neighborhood. Our way out was through a different job/position. We moved up to a slightly larger, considerably nicer (though still with issues) apartment in a much better neighborhood, with 3 kids (boy an girls) in a 2 bedroom. Eventually, our way to a more suitable home was, again, through a different job/position. We’re still in a “gotta make it work” situation, so I’m not talking about dream home ambitions, but it sounds like you NEED improvements of one sort or another. Instead of trying to figure out how to make that home work, I’d suggest trying to figure out what needs to be done to get into a better situation. Kids become teenagers, which makes everything more complicated IME. I so wish I had thought about teenagers and/or the possibility of more kids when we picked this 3rd home, because I would have chosen something much different. Start thinking long term instead of just the near future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Thank you, again for your support! It is a nice enough home....for an old retired couple! The church used to have a large (large) parsonage but it needed major repairs. An old childless couple had built this house and left it to the church so they sold the other one and kept this one! There are some people who understand and are supportive. One man just told my husband he wanted us to be here at least ten years. I said, “Did you tell him where we are sleeping....?” 😂 I agree that most people either don’t realize what it is like to live with a family here, cause apart from the water in the basement, it is a nice home for...three people! Or they just, as fairfarmhand says, think that we should be grateful for what we have and that it is good enough for us. I am looking forward to the day when we no longer have to live in a parsonage! I will keep Moonhawk’s suggestion of bringing the council through our “bedroom” on the way to dinner!!! Slept there last night....last night— strange! Wasn’t it Flannery O’Conner who said, “we suffer more from the church instead of for her?” I appreciate your support! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
math teacher Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 You've been given some good suggestions. I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say I'm sorry you have to live like this because of people who are supposed to love you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Is there someone above the council you can appeal to? My grandfather was a southern baptist preacher in Texas. When he retired from preaching he became a director of missions for a region, basically he was a pastor to the pastors. Occasionally he would be asked to assist in situations like this and could help negotiate a situation that is acceptable both to the pastor and the congregation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Ema said: There are some people who understand and are supportive. One man just told my husband he wanted us to be here at least ten years. I said, “Did you tell him where we are sleeping....?” 😂 I agree that most people either don’t realize what it is like t Seriously, it seems like perhaps there needs to be a way to tell people that you all want to be able to be there for a long time, but that the living circumstances are creating a problem. Are there any builders in the church community who could lead a “barn raising “ to add a bedroom on? When in NYC where people made do with tiny spaces, I know a family who had a sleeping loft put in above a dining nook. So the dining area was just sit, not stand up height. And two sets of three tier bunk beds each with privacy curtains in a bedroom for 6 kids to each have a personal nook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 3/15/2019 at 12:38 PM, Pen said: Seriously, it seems like perhaps there needs to be a way to tell people that you all want to be able to be there for a long time, but that the living circumstances are creating a problem. Are there any builders in the church community who could lead a “barn raising “ to add a bedroom on? When in NYC where people made do with tiny spaces, I know a family who had a sleeping loft put in above a dining nook. So the dining area was just sit, not stand up height. And two sets of three tier bunk beds each with privacy curtains in a bedroom for 6 kids to each have a personal nook. Yes, there is the council, unfortunately the president is also the one in charge of the building and maintenance, and he is tight with money and seems to think the house is good enough. Dh is also very mild mannered, and while he can hold his own and then some when it comes to some areas of ministry, he is reluctant to push this. He also seems to think that once the snow is all melted and the basement dried out it would be fine to move the kids back down there. Sigh. He is not happy with the new living arrangement and use can’t seem to convince him that even though it will be “dry” the dehumidifier runs non-stop and the kids come up from the night smelling of musty basement. I think he just doesn’t want to admit that he either has to really confront the council about this or we have to move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ema said: Yes, there is the council, unfortunately the president is also the one in charge of the building and maintenance, and he is tight with money and seems to think the house is good enough. Dh is also very mild mannered, and while he can hold his own and then some when it comes to some areas of ministry, he is reluctant to push this. He also seems to think that once the snow is all melted and the basement dried out it would be fine to move the kids back down there. Sigh. He is not happy with the new living arrangement and use can’t seem to convince him that even though it will be “dry” the dehumidifier runs non-stop and the kids come up from the night smelling of musty basement. I think he just doesn’t want to admit that he either has to really confront the council about this or we have to move on... “Musty” smell generally = fungus, mold . Sometimes bacteria. It is potentially very dangerous for health. That’s not an acceptable choice imo. All the children in small bedroom and your oldest with curtained area (or privacy screen) for some privacy makes more sense to me. Are there any funds that could be applied for in any other way? Higher level of the denomination? Habitat for Humanity help? ETA you might be able to do a school science experiment and put Petri dishes with agar medium and or a medium that mold would tend to grow on open in your basement for varying lengths of time to see if anything grows. Maybe get to look at it under microscope or take it to a university for identification. Edited March 17, 2019 by Pen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmasc Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Ema said: Yes, there is the council, unfortunately the president is also the one in charge of the building and maintenance, and he is tight with money and seems to think the house is good enough. Dh is also very mild mannered, and while he can hold his own and then some when it comes to some areas of ministry, he is reluctant to push this. He also seems to think that once the snow is all melted and the basement dried out it would be fine to move the kids back down there. Sigh. He is not happy with the new living arrangement and use can’t seem to convince him that even though it will be “dry” the dehumidifier runs non-stop and the kids come up from the night smelling of musty basement. I think he just doesn’t want to admit that he either has to really confront the council about this or we have to move on... I know it can be an uncomfortable conversation, but one that needs to take place. When we were in our parsonage, the carpet in the living room was so very old that I just knew it was not good for my sinuses or our health. They had cleaned it before we moved in, but after about a year, my DH asked the church if they could pay for the cheap laminate ‘wood’ at Lowe’s, that he could install it himself. Sure enough, they agreed to do that for us. Sometimes things just need to be fixed or upgraded in order to remain safe and maintained. That’s the case here with your basement. It’s maintenance that needs to take place in the house whether you live there or not. But especially so since you do. Just as an aside, when my DH pulled up the carpet and padding, we were able to sweep up a HUGE pile of dirt that had settled underneath. It couldn’t be reached by vacuum. It was eye opening for sure to me about the yuckiness of carpet! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I was thinking a little more about your awkward fireplace room. Some of the nicest B&Bs I've stayed in have included fireplaces in the bedrooms. Can you embrace the fireplace as a charming design feature? If you cannot use it for a fire, you can still make it sweet with candles or a pretty screen. Consider dividing the office from the bedroom with a hanging fabric screen? Just some ideas. I definitely agree with getting the kids out of the basement. That much water is not healthy, and there will be chaos trying to manage their stuff with a basement that gets wet sometimes. But the health issues are a big deal, and I would not consider that acceptable at all. A dear friend of mine had to deal with parsonage issues. You have my wholehearted sympathy. Unfortunately sometimes the ministry family is expected to put up with conditions that are not acceptable. The basement flooding is a big deal, and the church should recognize it. Take pictures, document problems, and be the squeaky wheel. Just my two cents. YMMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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