Those who have RAD adopted kids

[bethben]

How do you survive?  How does your marriage survive?  How does your health survive?  My dh and I are stressed to the point where I'm currently shaking and he's ready to cry and this was just trying to get dd to school.  I'm in therapy for trauma and dh probably needs that too.  My therapist says we need family counseling but also knows that I am dealing with so much trauma that it wouldn't be too effective at this point.  My dh is concerned that despite my many efforts to keep healthy, that I will not live as long as I should.  I feel the same about him.  Dd missed a psych evaluation that took me two months to schedule due to the flu.  I have another one in a month.  I'm pretty sure there's a whole list of diagnoses that she will receive.  

[Selkie]

(((bethben)))  I don't have any experience or advice, but wanted to say how sorry I am that you and your family are going through this.

[Ottakee]

Feel free to pm message me if you don't want to share a lot publicly.  

[bethben]

Further question--how do people live year after year not believing anything will change and will most likely get worse?  How do people live in a constant hard?  

[Ottakee]

3 minutes ago, bethben said:

Further question--how do people live year after year not believing anything will change and will most likely get worse?  How do people live in a constant hard?  

It IS hard but local support, the right meds (if indicated) and surviving puberty can make a huge difference.  One of my close friends had a daughter that assaulted her at 14 and had to be out of the house for a time and things were horrible.  Now 10 years later this same girl has an apartment, a very good full time job, and is a true delight.  honestly.  She even goes on speaking engagements with her mom talking on how to survive those years.  I also sent you a pm.

[Tap]

There are questions about whether dd12 has RAD or not. She is my great-niece and I have had her since she was 5mo.  I have been thru H*ll with her though, so whether it is RAD or not, it is still a struggle. DD has one of the top psychiatrists in our area for complicated, aggressive, high psych needs kids and he says she is one of the most complicated he has seen. Her autism specialists say the same. 

When I was at my worst, I was a bad place. I was fighting so hard to keep moving forward with her, that I was barely making it through the day. I work 40 to 50 hours in a stressful job, have DD12 and also have DD20 who has major health issues too. There were times when we had standing doctors appointments 4 days per week and miscellaneous ones on top of that. DD12 goes to a therapeutic day school now, but in K-1st she was in a traditional school. She was suspended and expelled several times. At one point in time she only went to school part time with the blessing of the school district because she was so violent that they didn't know what to do with her. Her school had a behavior support classroom but she still spent large portions of her day in an isolation closet. As cruel as that may seem, it was the only way to protect the staff and other children. One of my biggest issues with the school, was that when the teachers in the BSC needed extra assistance, they would pull any staff available. That might be the school secretary, librarian or a substitute teacher or para support. These staff all had little to no training on how to de escalate or restrain a violent child and often got injured or made the situation worse.

She had a personal one-with-one at daycare and usually required more than one adult to contain her even in k-1st grade.  Mid-2nd grade they finally moved her to a therapeutic day school and it really has been a blessing. She has a HIGH amount of structure and everything they do for corrective action is thought out and planned. Every staff is Highly trained to deal with kids like her. There is no shock and awe with this staff. LOL Even this school, struggle to contain her outbursts. The goal of this school is to stabilize and train the children to self regulate and return to traditional schools. When we interviewed this school, they said the average length of attendance for a child is 18 months. She has now been there 3 years and it is unlikely to transition back to traditional school any time soon. If you have an option like this, it may be worth looking into. One of the best things for me, is that they school doesn't act like it is my fault and that I just need to discipline her. They understand her unique situation and are sooooo very forgiving. The entire staff work with special needs/behavior students on purpose, and they all are some of the most flexible, patient and kind staff I have ever met. On the other hand, they are very good at holding their ground on the important things and not letting kids 'play' them.  They have BTDT for years and can see past many outbursts and can work on the problem, not the behavior. 

For me, I don't know what to say about how I made it through those years. Dh and my marriage did break. We still live together and get along, but we are not a couple any longer. We don't divorce because neither one of us could raise her alone, ad having her go back and forth between houses would not work. Too much stress. Too many years. Dh travels for work quite a bit so he gets a break, but that also means he loses his day to day tolerance. Once you get out of our family chaos, it is hard to step back in and not go crazy. I actually don't like taking vacations away due to this. Yes, a few days break is nice, but honestly, coming home is so horrible, that it undoes all the relaxation and you realize what a messy stressful life we live. DD is 12yo but 5'9" and 250lbs. When she rages it is like a full size, very strong, heavy man tearing things up. She isn't as likely to do property destruction as when she was little, but will lay on the floor and slam her fists or feet into the floorboards. The whole house shakes.  Her bedroom walls were once covered in grapefruit to soccer ball size holes, her bedroom door is broken, her closet doors are broken (subsequently removed)  and there are a few kick dents in the downstairs walls as well. The living room furniture is trashed from her size (throwing her body on it) and outbursts. Our home used to be very nice and well decorated. Now there are now no pictures downstairs and limited decorations. They used to become targets of aggression or missiles that were thrown, so they all left the house.  My house is baren, damaged and broken. I don't even bother repainting any more. It is hard to walk into. 

To get through the day, I just suck it up and carry on. I can't take antidepressants due to side effects but most parents with special needs kids I know, do. If you need the extra medication support, please get it. I know for a lot of parents it really helps. I do use sleep aides. The stress really takes a toll on me and not getting sleep just makes it worse. 

She is heavily medicated. She used to rage for 45 minutes at a time, several times per day. Now it is more like 15 minutes every couple of days. Still has room to go though. It has taken years to get her relatively stable and we still have some really bad days. Her weight is directly related to her medications. I hate to set her up to carry so much weight (especially at her age) but she has to stay on them or I am sure she will be in juvenile detention by now. Even though she doesn't rage all day on her current med cocktail, she is highly emotional and requires constant support and intervention. There are few hours in a day, that parenting her isn't a purposeful endeavour. LOL 

I don't know what to say about counseling. I know some people like having a safe place to vent and that can really help. For me, I don't need platitudes, ideas on how to cope, and I can't spend my day dwelling on the situation. I have taken DD to 500+ BT/OT sessions, so I have been given extensive training on dealing with her. I have a couple of friends who understand with some BTDT experiences. I try to see them every couple of months or so so we can dump on each other.  I am actually thinking of starting a dinner group in my area for parents that 'get it'. Not a structured support group, just a group of parents who all have violent kids who understand what it is like to be the parent of our kiddos. Either through RAD, autism, DMDD, or whatever the kids particular diagnosis. For me, that is what i find the most benefit in. Just being able to connect with other parents and have someone say "my kid has done that too!" to not feel so alone in my crazy thoughts and feelings about day to day survival. LOL It is hard for parents of NT kids to grasp what it means to walk our walk. They often want to try to offer ideas on how to parent NT kids. Those generally don't work in my world or in the world of kids with RAD or other violent/manipulative diagnosis. Or parents of NT kids just look at you with eyes filled with horror. There are so many parents with our types of kiddos, so seem to become shut ins because one parent or both have to be there constantly.  

I could go on for days. so I will stop here. If you have any questions feel free to ask here or PM me.

Take care! It is a long and hard road. ((((((hugs)))))

 

[bethben]

thankfully, I did find a therapist who does have two children with RAD.  She gets it.  

[Pink and Green Mom]

Hugs, Bethben.  I have heard many stories in our adoption circles about RAD.  I cannot imagine what it must be like for you.  I am so sorry.

[itsheresomewhere]

Tap, 

I just wanted to tell you how wonderful it is that you said the truth for your situation. So many hide the truth and sing song praises. Posts like this are needed so someone doesn’t feel alone.  I hope your post finds someone who needs to hear it isn’t all roses and has been searching for exactly what you said. 

Hugs to you. 

[bethben]

I think the hardest part of this is that if she said to me, “I want you to be my mom” or any such thing similarly, I could deal.  Maybe deep inside she wants that.  But last night, when I said, “I think deep down you really do want a me as your mom but it’s underneath a lot of confusion”, she looked at me very calmly with no sorrow or anger and said, “I really don’t want a mom.”  To constantly hear that while everything I care (peace, my family, my marriage,my sanity) about is destroyed by her makes it really hard to keep trying.  

So, if anyine’s heart is warmed by the focus on the family touching pictures of adoption, I will tell you the advice I should have listened to, “Don’t adopt.  It can destroy your family.”  I’ve seen it more often than not.  For every good story I know, I have two that are horrific.

[cintinative]

 

A friend of mine with more than one RAD kid had very little success with traditional methods and they started using EMDR with her oldest adopted and it is really helping.  I don't know if that is an option for you--it sounds like you don't have a firm diagnosis yet, so maybe once you get that? She was sharing the other day that she takes long walks around the neighborhood so she can cry.  It is so, so very hard.

I am so sorry that you and Tap are facing these huge challenges and heartbreaks.  

[Pen]

33 minutes ago, bethben said:

I think the hardest part of this is that if she said to me, “I want you to be my mom” or any such thing similarly, I could deal.  Maybe deep inside she wants that.  But last night, when I said, “I think deep down you really do want a me as your mom but it’s underneath a lot of confusion”, she looked at me very calmly with no sorrow or anger and said, “I really don’t want a mom.”  To constantly hear that while everything I care (peace, my family, my marriage,my sanity) about is destroyed by her makes it really hard to keep trying.  

 

That would be really hard on you, I am sure.  I’m sorry you are dealing with this.    

At the same time, it may be an opportunity to explore it further.

Perhaps at a relatively good time for you both, or maybe with help from a therapist.

How old is dd?

Have you ever had therapist help to do attachment bonding work?

Have you asked her at another time why she thinks she does not want a mom?  And what does she want?  Getting on her side to try to help her find what she does want might possibly be helpful-depending on what it is.  Or she might really deep inside want a mom and for it to be you.  She could bevtesting your commitment.

 

 

33 minutes ago, bethben said:

So, if anyine’s heart is warmed by the focus on the family touching pictures of adoption, I will tell you the advice I should have listened to, “Don’t adopt.  It can destroy your family.”  I’ve seen it more often than not.  For every good story I know, I have two that are horrific.

 

I am a mom by adoption and despite difficulties I am glad of it.  I know horrific stories too, but I don’t actually think it’s two to one—though I could be wrong.  RAD is extra extremely hard, so you see the worst of it.  

 

[Pen]

Oh no.  Emoji super hulks!

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Kids who are not able to bond don’t really want those close familial relationships. They don’t think of them as a safe harbor. 

Friends who have gone through RAD to the young adult years needed family counseling, meds and public school. These kids often behave much better for “strangers “ because the emotional component to the relationships is missing or at least different than in a family. 

Is it possible to talk to the school about an aide who would assist in getting her to school?  If I remember correctly, that is one big daily stressor?  Perhaps someone assigned to her special needs bus if she qualifies?  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[Pen]

I don’t know the rules in where you are (Canada?), but I do know someone who for the best of all involved had to place a child in a group care setting, which the child in this case actually preferred.  The family still visited, but it was necessary for physical and emotional health of all concerned.  

[Pen]

Also there may be respite care options to give you a temporary break.  This could be one such: 

https://www.ranchforkids.org/

 

[Harriet Vane]

I'm sorry it's so hard. Truly so sorry.

I hesitate to offer any thoughts, as I have no experience and do not want to cause pain. Have you considered a residential setting for her? It seems unfair that the rest of the family has to be broken, too. Please forgive me if that is an insensitive. I know you love her, and I'm sorry it's so rough.

[PinkTulip]

I have no advice here, but an endless amount of love and support for each of you going through this. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by PinkTulip

[bethben]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

We may still do it someday. But I’m looking more at kiddos like Benjamin, with his kind of birth injury, as more feasible for us in terms of needs. Even just saying it sounds terrible, but changing adult diapers and administering seizure meds sounds like a cakewalk compared to what you and Tap are describing.  Beth, all the hugs and love in the world from us, and I wish we could do more for you and your daughter and the rest of the family than just that

Yes, changing adult diapers is infinitely easier than my dd.  I would still caution you against adopting.  Part of my fear (DH says that he has no premonition that she actually would) is that she will injure my son to cause DH and I distress.  She would never never think to do that most of the time and would be horrified to know I think this of her, but in the midst of her rages, anything seems to be possible.

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

Friends who have gone through RAD to the young adult years needed family counseling, meds and public school. These kids often behave much better for “strangers “ because the emotional component to the relationships is missing or at least different than in a family. 

Is it possible to talk to the school about an aide who would assist in getting her to school?  If I remember correctly, that is one big daily stressor?  Perhaps someone assigned to her special needs bus if she qualifies?  

She is going to school now because I couldn’t handle the stress of teaching her any more.  So far, she does go to school without much problem, but I also know I’m going to need a plan for when she decides she just doesn’t want to.  She’s already done this with church once and we had absolutely nothing we could do.  This is one of those things I see on the horizon that I need an action plan for.  That and if we send her to the psych ward to keep her safe, how can we transition back to home without us having pure chaos and accusations from her.

Also, I have become convinced we are looking at orphan/foster care wrongly.  A lot of these kids seem to need a degree of separation from the intense love a family brings.  There should be more group homes of sort where kids would be safe and given a real chance at a good life without the structure of a family.  Maybe too close of a love situation is like sensory overload for autistic kids.  They just need a less intense relationship status.

[Ottakee]

6 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

My oldest son does not have RAD, but he has autism and conduct disorder.  While I question the conduct disorder diagnosis(the psychologist who gave it to him was a quack and was still using the DSM IV last summer), as his meltdowns and aggressive acts always lead back to a sensory trigger, it's finally getting us some help so I have left it.  He has become very aggressive and even violent in school since November when his teacher, counselor and school psychologist that were with him since kindergarten all left suddenly. He is now on homebound while they try to find a therapeutic program for him.  

We are exhausted and overwhelmed as well.  I wish there were good answers.  I wish we had safety nets and better services in place for kids with developmental and mental health disabilities.  I wish I could take it all away for you and make life better.  Mostly, I wish this weren't my life.

Sorry you are struggling.  On my Special needs family FB page I just got an article that there is a lawsuit filed in Michigan stating that there are not enough mental health services for kids in need.  I know this is a nationwide problem.

I am NOT a doctor=, and don't even get to play one here on the internet but have you tried Risperdal or a similar medication with your son?  I know it has been a life saver/game changer here and is approved for autism.

[Pen]

 

1 hour ago, bethben said:

Also, I have become convinced we are looking at orphan/foster care wrongly.  A lot of these kids seem to need a degree of separation from the intense love a family brings.  There should be more group homes of sort where kids would be safe and given a real chance at a good life without the structure of a family.  Maybe too close of a love situation is like sensory overload for autistic kids.  They just need a less intense relationship status.

 

This may well be true.  When I entered the foster parent and adoption world around 20 years ago, I did quite a lot of research on various aspects of this whole new world I was getting into.

There was a family named Hays who impressed me very much who had adopted 12 or so children all with either FAS or something similar.  Back then they had a website explaining how they managed.  It seems to be defunct now.  

There are a few You Tube videos however: 

 

And maybe this contact information is still good even though the website seems to be defunct?  

It has been a long time since I learned of them and they already had grown kids, so perhaps they aren’t even alive now.  But I think their goal was to help adoptions with difficulties be able to work out.  

The contacts below had been public information so I think it’s okay to post.

Contact Us. John Hays. Phone#(218) 969-2116. Email : hayskids@hayskids.org. Janice Goudy. Phone# (218 ) 244-5304. Email: janice@hayskids.org

 

 

[Pen]

Also, where I am (not locally, I am in a rural area far from it, but in my state) there is a post adoption resource center. Do you have anything like that?  It may take some sniffing out to find it.  

[Pen]

Possibly of help or interest? Or, a way to hear someone who “gets it” any time you need that?

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pen

[Melissa in Australia]

HUGS

My Permanent care twins have been diagnosed with RAD along with a huge list of other things, but most likely it is FASD.

 Understanding that it is physical brain damage has helped with my ability to cope with it. it helps tremendously to think nasty thought about birth parents instead of thinking negative thoughts about the twins behaviour. awful thing to voice, but it does help me

Edited February 22, 2019 by Melissa in Australia

[geodob]

Though it is quite possible, that she has no real concept of what a mom is?  So perhaps you could ask her about she thinks a mom really is? 

[mlktwins]

12 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Honestly that was the advice given to me by a mom who had many bio children and adopted quite a few more.  She told me to NOT adopt, or wait until my own kids were significantly older.  The look she gave me as she said it was completely chilling and absolutely formed my opinions on this, because I know she loved her children and tried so hard.  But she thought the best advice she could give was run, not walk, away from the idea.  

 

Yes to this!!!  My single sister took in a 4 year old foster girl and ended up adopting her.  She was not equipped to deal with a RAD child, especially not as a single parent, and there wasn't really a lot of outside support.  If she used respite, my niece would come back even worse than when she left (after just a weekend).  She made my sister pay.  It wreaked havoc on our whole family -- mostly on my mom who put a tremendous amount of effort (both mental and physical) into helping my niece and my sister and trying to keep them both afloat.  I was in college at the time (my sister is 7 years older than me) and thank goodness we didn't have any other children in the family to be affected by my niece and sister.  It was chilling some of the things that happened.  My niece is grown and is not in communication with any of us, which is fine with me.  I would not have allowed her around my children EVER!

I really admire people who foster/adopt and want to do so much good -- to make a change in a child's life.  I had thought maybe one day too.  But, because of our family's experience, it will never happen!!!

Big HUGS to the OP!!!!  

 

 

[shawthorne44]

12 hours ago, bethben said:

....

Also, I have become convinced we are looking at orphan/foster care wrongly.  A lot of these kids seem to need a degree of separation from the intense love a family brings.  There should be more group homes of sort where kids would be safe and given a real chance at a good life without the structure of a family.  Maybe too close of a love situation is like sensory overload for autistic kids.  They just need a less intense relationship status.

I have also thought the same thing.  Also, if maybe one stable group home wouldn't be better than foster homes that change every year or two.  Even for kids without physical or mental difficulties.  
 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm very sorry this is happening to you.  It must feel like a nightmare.

I think people are intimidated about honestly assessing whether or not a higher risk child or a lower risk child is a good fit for them. (Yes, I know low risk kids can have RAD, but we're talking about the general rule here.)  When people talk to me about adoption I unapologetically explain that we specifically chose the lowest risk category-no abuse/ neglect/substance abuse.  I also tell them to read up on RAD and only go with an agency that talks openly about it as people are considering and going through the process. No, we don't have a kid with RAD, but we are part of the adoptive community so we're familiar with some resources out there.  Are you familiar with the Karyn Purvis research and strategies? They might help, but first you have to accept that many adopted kids cannot be parented the same way as most bio kids.  You have to be willing to do things other people wouldn't consider good parenting.

[Pen]

44 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

I have also thought the same thing.  Also, if maybe one stable group home wouldn't be better than foster homes that change every year or two.  Even for kids without physical or mental difficulties.  
 

 

The best understanding conveyed to me when I was doing foster was that the younger a child could be gotten to bond with anyone, even if temporary, the better chance they had of avoiding RAD and other serious problems.  

 

[shawthorne44]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

The best understanding conveyed to me when I was doing foster was that the younger a child could be gotten to bond with anyone, even if temporary, the better chance they had of avoiding RAD and other serious problems.  

 

That makes sense.  Isn't there a cutoff at 1.5 years old, though?  

[bethben]

I think adoption agencies are upfront about what a kid with RAD looks like, but what they don’t explain is how it so affects the family or the emotional health of the parents.  Yes, I parent her differently.  I have to put up with judgements against my parenting skills/who I am as a person.  For example, I am the only parent who is at home that puts her child in after school care.  I also am more of a helicopter mom than she should need at 11 years old.  I would love to stop and let her have more freedoms but she just can’t handle them yet.

I realized watching the parenting FASD video above that how they parent their kids is much like how I parent my dd.  She always has to tell us her plan for playing outside, we have a pretty tight schedule, and if she does something wrong, we ignore it initially because we know she will escalate.  Makes me wonder.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I'm very sorry this is happening to you.  It must feel like a nightmare.

I think people are intimidated about honestly assessing whether or not a higher risk child or a lower risk child is a good fit for them. (Yes, I know low risk kids can have RAD, but we're talking about the general rule here.)  When people talk to me about adoption I unapologetically explain that we specifically chose the lowest risk category-no abuse/ neglect/substance abuse.  I also tell them to read up on RAD and only go with an agency that talks openly about it as people are considering and going through the process. No, we don't have a kid with RAD, but we are part of the adoptive community so we're familiar with some resources out there.  Are you familiar with the Karyn Purvis research and strategies? They might help, but first you have to accept that many adopted kids cannot be parented the same way as most bio kids.  You have to be willing to do things other people wouldn't consider good parenting.

 

I’m quoting you to give it emphasis.  It parallels my own experience.

 

There are also different rules in different places. California allowed more meeting ahead of placement with older child .  Oregon where I am now did not—potential parents got a written description only.  I had thought about adopting another child, but didn’t do so, partly from risk of this.  A social worker did give me an idea about how to read between the lines of descriptions, however.  

ETA: this is with regard to adoption of domestic children through the government channels—not international adoption or private adoption.  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pen

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

That makes sense.  Isn't there a cutoff at 1.5 years old, though?  

 

I haven’t been following current research, but don’t think so.  I was only certified for older children than that and it was what I was taught needed to be done at 3-7 years of age range.

adding: a lot of the RAD children are from situations where there may be other things going on also, such as FASD common in some settings (orphanages in certain places, for example). 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pen

[bethben]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

The best understanding conveyed to me when I was doing foster was that the younger a child could be gotten to bond with anyone, even if temporary, the better chance they had of avoiding RAD and other serious problems.  

 

My dd was 2 1/2.  I think part of the problem was that she had some surgeries in China to repair a cleft lip/palate.  I’m not sure how much care was given after the surgeries. She also came with scars on her butt from diaper rash.  It really shows lack of attentive care which shows that she most likely didn’t have a consistent bond with a caregiver.  My friend fostered to adopt an 18 month old.  She also has issues.  

[Pen]

My son doesn’t have RAD, but he has PTSD and other issues.  It isn’t RAD by any means, but it is hard not to ever get an, “I love you, too” sort of response back.  

I have found Rick Hanson’s book Resilient very helpful, but don’t know if ideas in it would be enough for you dealing with a full RAD situation.

[HS Mom in NC]

28 minutes ago, bethben said:

I think adoption agencies are upfront about what a kid with RAD looks like, but what they don’t explain is how it so affects the family or the emotional health of the parents.  

 

I wouldn't classify that as up front.  If it doesn't include the family dynamic, then it isn't up front, and I would classify it as an unethical agency.

[Pen]

27 minutes ago, bethben said:

My dd was 2 1/2.

 

 

How old is she now?

(I cannot see sig information even if it says on there) 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pen

[wendyroo]

17 minutes ago, bethben said:

My dd was 2 1/2.  I think part of the problem was that she had some surgeries in China to repair a cleft lip/palate.  I’m not sure how much care was given after the surgeries. She also came with scars on her butt from diaper rash.  It really shows lack of attentive care which shows that she most likely didn’t have a consistent bond with a caregiver.  My friend fostered to adopt an 18 month old.  She also has issues.  

And it is so hard because you are never out of the woods completely.

My aunt and uncle adopted a little girl when she was just over 2.  She was healthy, not significantly underweight or behind developmentally, and by all reports had been well cared for by a consistent foster family.

I am about 15 years older than my cousin, so I watched her grow up.  She was...mostly fine.  A bit confused and unsettled by being adopted, a little moody and withdrawn, apathetic and lackluster academically, but nothing extreme.  She seemed bonded to immediate and extended family and to do well socially with teachers and peers.  She played sports, did chores, was a normal, snarly, boundary-testing teenager.

When she graduated high school (by the skin of her teeth), she became depressed and rudderless.  She tried college for less than a semester, she tried the army, but didn't make it through bootcamp, she tried working but quit or lost job after job.  Her parents offered her all the support they could, but my cousin refused any help.  She is now 23ish, homeless, jobless, and well on her way to becoming an alcoholic.

Obviously there is no definitive way of proving that any of her issues are related to being adopted, but it sure seems likely.

[Pen]

 

27 minutes ago, bethben said:

 China

 

 

27 minutes ago, bethben said:

to repair a cleft lip/palate.  

 

A major USA international adoption agency called Holt International has its main office in my state.  There are thus a lot of people in my area with internationally adopted kids through them, and also I have known someone who worked there.  They have a lot of online materials.  And they might be willing to help with ideas over phone even if you didn’t adopt through them. I think they have a longstanding commitment from the ideas of the founder toward building healthy family lives , not just a make adoption a business attitude.  

Yahoo-groups has had good online support groups.  

It is possible that something like EMDR could help your dd to release some of the trauma associated with cleft lip/palate, etc.    

[bethben]

13 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

How old is she now?

(I cannot see sig information even if it says on there) 

11

 

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It is possible that something like EMDR could help your dd to release some of the trauma associated with cleft lip/palate, etc.    

Maybe—all other surgeries she’s had since we got her have been “fun” for her.  She actually looked forward to her hospital stay.  She never seemed to remember much of the waking up stuff-only the games and movies and prizes—the fun nurses, etc.  I never got the impression she was having trauma relapses from surgeries.  I’m just guessing the surgeries in China were helping add to the RAD.  

[Pen]

11 minutes ago, bethben said:

11

 

Maybe—all other surgeries she’s had since we got her have been “fun” for her.  She actually looked forward to her hospital stay.  She never seemed to remember much of the waking up stuff-only the games and movies and prizes—the fun nurses, etc.  I never got the impression she was having trauma relapses from surgeries.  I’m just guessing the surgeries in China were helping add to the RAD.  

 

Maybe that was a nurturing time then in a sea of not being nurtured.  

Mother things (typo autocorrect other to mother, looked apt)  though probably are stored in her and being released at you.  Maybe both of you triggering the other.  Probably any gains that can be made for both of you will help both of you.  

Did you get help with attachment and bonding work when she first arrived or any time since?

We used to do “games” like feed the baby bird. Lotion application.  Etc etc.  

[Pen]

https://www.holtinternational.org/magazine/2014/04/21/parenting-from-a-hard-place/

example of some Holt materials readily available to all

[Pen]

https://www.holtinternational.org/pas/adoptive-parent/resources-for-adoptive-parents/

Some online post international adoption resources.

 

———

the post adoption group I belong to is restricted to Oregon, but they may have some online materials that anyone could access, or maybe they’d know if there’s anything comparable in your region:

 

https://www.orparc.org/support-how.php?tn=5

——

[Pen]

 

Haven’t seen this but blurb looks potentially relevant: 

“

You Ain’t Crazy

‘Jayne Schooler author of Wounded Children Healing Homes discusses parenting traumatized children and how this experience impacts the adoptive parent. “When a child with a history of trauma joins the family, it is transformational for that family. Most often, this transformation is positive for all in the family. Occasionally, the transformation is not and the issues and challenges in maintaining the child in the home feel insurmountable.”’ 

”

[Pen]

This is a book list related to attachment from my state post adoption support group — just to give an idea.  They have lists by subject category.  

https://www.orparc.org/assets/library/Lists/English/Attachment__Bonding.pdf

[Pen]

It also listed this book which might be relevant (I’ve not read it): 

The Post-Adoption Blues: Overcoming the Unforeseen Challenges of Adoption https://www.amazon.com/dp/1579548660/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_50cCCbRV6MD95

[Tap]

These are the symptoms of RAD in an adult based on this website. (site not picked for any reason other than a quick list to copy)

• Detachment
• Withdrawal from connections
• Inability to develop and maintain significant relationships, romantic or otherwise
• Inability to show affection
• Resistance to giving and receiving love despite craving it
• Control issues
• Anger problems
• Impulsivity
• Sense of distrust
• Inability to fully grasp emotions
• Feelings of loneliness and emptiness
• Lack of a sense of belonging

One thing I warn friends about when they are talking about adopting is to consider these traits and to realize that you aren't just talking about a toddler with attachment issues. These issues follow their entire lives. They are teens/adults in your home with these traits. When you take the distrust, anger, detachment and put into a family, it is devastating! I have often said that dd is like having an abusive spouse. But with a spouse, you can leave and divorce them. You can get them away from your children and stop the madness. When it is a child who is creating this level of trauma to the family, it isn't as easy to step away. Think about how hard it is for people to leave an abusive spouse, now magnify that by 100. You can't just just kick them out and tell them to figure things out on their own. As an adoptive parent you are committed to sticking it out until they are 18. Even if they leave home, you are still considered responsible for them.

I have a huge amount of guilt regarding raising my older kids in such a horrible, abusive situation. I was naive and thought that we could help her get better when she was a toddler. With med and therapy, love and support, I thought she would finally come more into the more normal range of emotions. I was very, very wrong. My older daughter and I use to plan her escape if we thought that dd12 was to the point of seriously hurting my older daughter. I am not kidding. We installed locks on my older daughters bedroom door. We had a game plan and alternate names picked out so she could hide in the community. We haven't reached that point, but there were times that we were on such a downward spiral of behavior, we could see it being a necessary safety plan to have in place. That is not a conversation you should have to have with your 15yo child, about their 7yo  sibling.  (ages from 5 years ago). There are very, very limited resources in our area and we were working on accessing them at that time. It is a very slow process with extensive waiting lists. We weren't just sitting around hoping for the best. Our youngest daughter was in a therapeutic school, attending 2 private therapy sessions a week outside of school, and had other supports around her as well. We were doing all we could to get thru. I once sat down and wrote the letter to the judge requesting a hearing to dissolve our guardianship. I never sent it, but it is still on my computer. The problem with dissolution, is that it is only going to make things worse for the adoptee. You have an already damaged child and you are going to make it worse. 

ETA: DD12 is my great-niece. She came to us at 5mo. She was removed from her birth mom at delivery and placed in my mom's care (dd12s maternal great gma), until she came to stay with us 5 months later. She was loved and nurtured from the day she was born. Attachment is a fickle beast and just making sure to adopt a baby isn't a guarantee RAD won't happen. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Tap

[Pen]

 

1 hour ago, Tap said:

• Detachment
• Withdrawal from connections
• Inability to develop and maintain significant relationships, romantic or otherwise
• Inability to show affection
• Resistance to giving and receiving love despite craving it
• Control issues
• Anger problems
• Impulsivity
• Sense of distrust
• Inability to fully grasp emotions
• Feelings of loneliness and emptiness
• Lack of a sense of belonging

 

 

1 hour ago, Tap said:

These issues follow their entire lives. They are teens/adults in your home with these traits. When you take the distrust, anger, detachment and put into a family, it is devastating! I have often said that dd is like having an abusive spouse. But with a spouse, you can leave and divorce them.

 

Yes.  And also can become a parent with RAD, such that usually the next generation won’t get proper attachment.

https://blog.donnawilliams.net/2015/09/27/when-a-parent-has-reactive-attachment-disorder/

 

[Jaybee]

I have found Deborah Gray's books, Attaching in Adoption and Nurturing Adoptions , helpful. While it might not be enough for your situation, there still might be some helps there.. Gray's books helped me to distance myself (in a healthy way) from taking responsibility for things I could not control or fix, and gave me some practical ways of looking at things that have been quite helpful. I think the biggest was her advice for "high structure, high nurture." 

[Ottakee]

A Few books that are highly suggested in the adoption world for struggling kids/parents.

The Great Behavior Breakdown by Bryan Post ( adoptee himself) https://www.amazon.com/Great-Behavior-Breakdown-Bryan-Post-ebook/dp/B007IWOFKY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2IOQ890AYMUDS&keywords=the+great+behavior+breakdown&qid=1550949053&s=gateway&sprefix=The+great+behavior%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-1

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene  https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically-ebook/dp/B00GLS4XT4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33N4N1DTXSJ0C&keywords=the+explosive+child&qid=1550949113&s=gateway&sprefix=The+exp%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-1

The Connected Child by Karyn Pruvis https://www.amazon.com/Connected-Child-Healing-Adoptive-Family-ebook/dp/B000WCWWC0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1TDL7HHSWF715&keywords=karen+purvis&qid=1550949203&s=gateway&sprefix=karen+purvis%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-1

These books are great along with evaluations for mental health and other concerns (and I ALWAYS suggest a full physical with blood work for blood sugars, thyroid, Vit D/B, kidney and liver function, etc. and a urinalysis as sometimes there are physical things going on along with/as the cause of the behaviors......and a baseline of blood work before starting meds is always a good idea).