AFwife Claire Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 We adopted an 11 week old Newfoundland puppy back on Oct. 6 from a family nearby. Luna is pretty much a dream puppy--so sweet, doesn't bark or jump up, so good with kids, etc. BUT she hates walks. She would really be perfectly happy to stay always in our house or our yard! She romps around with the kids and is so happy! But we are a walking family. I love to take walks, and I want her to go with me! We have a harness for her, so nothing hurts her. As we leave our house or yard, she stops, pulls backwards, flops down, etc, and just doesn't want to go. As we get further away (after I lift her up, give her treats when she starts walking, etc, repeat over and over), she eventually resigns herself that she is indeed leaving our house area, so she walks along, but she will still stop a few times. It's definitely not an enthusiastic, lol. She clearly is just humoring me. She seems to have a good internal compass in her head, because somehow she can sense when we've reached the point in the walk where we are now walking back towards our house (and I have taken her all different directions, so it's not that she has memorized the route!), and at that point, she switches from reluctantly dragging along behind me to enthusiastically and steadily pulling in front of me. Then we switch roles. I stop to make her stop, try to get her to stay back by me, giving her a training treat when she does, etc., but it's tiring. Now she is only about 30 pounds right now, so I can hold her back, but soon she will be much bigger, and obviously I need to get this under control before then! DH wants to get a pinch collar for her, and maybe that would be helpful for the way back? I told him I absolutely would not use one for the way out, since that would clearly be self-defeating if she associated any pain with leaving for walks. We've driven places with her, and she still is the same way--except then she doesn't want to leave the van, and she pulls to get back to it. We just took a trip from OH to AL to visit our second son, and we stayed with friends down there whom she had never met. She was exactly the same way at their house--didn't want to leave their yard, and pulling to get back to it. She is a great dog in the car though! She's also really timid around other dogs, but I figure that will come. We're trying to expose her to a lot of different things. The family we got her from just had the puppies (10 of them) either in the basement or outside--really no other experiences. They had 3 kids who played with the puppies a ton, but that was about it, it seems like. They definitely never were walked anywhere, lol. Any suggestions? I have never even heard of a dog that doesn't want to take walks! She's just really not very curious, lol. That's good when it means she has no interest in getting into the trash, but bad when she doesn't ever want to go anywhere! Hopefully this picture will work. She is really so adorable and sweet! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 We had a golden retriever like that many years ago. She wasn't timid or scared of anything, she was just pretty lazy and hated going for walks. We would get a block or two down the street and she would flop down and want to be carried. We never did anything to correct it, we just let her be her lazy self, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 he's 11 weeks. take him swimming . . . . . like you say, he's a newfie. I recall a reading a description of them once. "they'll live in their water bowl". (they use them for water rescue in italy.) I have found zak george's youtube channel to be helpful. my daughter's breeder really likes ian dunbar. . . one of them might have a helpful suggestion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Squeee! Super cute fluffy girl! Love how upright she is sitting! ? And echoing previous poster -- puppies DO tire quickly, because *everything* is new to them: all the sights, sounds, smells. They easily get overwhelmed by all the things we take for granted in something as simple as taking a walk around the neighborhood. You might try going at a much slower rate to the exposure to walks/outings and new experiences. I'm part of a puppy-raising group for Guide Dogs for the blind, and puppies don't even *start* going on walks/outings until after 16 weeks. And then you take it slow, and only go for a short time, and build up to longer outings and more new experiences. With new experiences, always start slowly, calmly, and at a distance so the dog can check it out first -- and it may be that you expose briefly at a distance, reward for successfully not getting anxious or pulling back, go home and then go another day and get closer/stay longer. Multiple very short training sessions each day is how Guide Dogs has the puppy raisers work with the puppies. Like, a 10 minute session (or when you can see puppy interest and energy is waning), and then 1-2 hours later, another one. And repeat throughout the day. Training sessions (and walks/outings) should always be kept within the puppy's ability to succeed each time. At your puppy's age it might look something like: - walks start out as just down the block and back; after a few weeks, extend to 2 blocks; etc. - when on a walk, whenever there's something new (ex: Halloween or Christmas decorations in a yard; a bird or a cat; etc.), stop and let her examine the new thing from the sidewalk - an outing would start off just being the ride in the car, getting out to relieve and look around for 10 minutes and then get back in the car and going home - socialize with other people and dogs, but with very calm ones to start off, and in low-key settings -- NOT a dog park, e.g. Don't worry, you'll get there! Just go at "puppy pace". By the time she's 8-10 months old, you'll have built up to the longer walks and outings. Enjoy your gorgeous girl! Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited October 31, 2018 by Lori D. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I would start her on very very short walks and possibly take her to the end point farthest from home by vehicle or other conveyance and have her only walk home to start with. I had a dog at one point who was largely a home body even as an adult, and there is a lot of benefit in that compared to roamers. We often had to take a lure to get her to go places (liver treats, favorite ball). I think your dog is too young for a pinch collar and using that could make her hate going out more and longer. I suggest positive reinforcements Treats, lures, games she likes, etc. also keep in mind that she is still a baby dog. She needs to rest a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 11 weeks is too young for a proper walk. Short training walks with lots of enthusiastic prompts and treats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'm not anti-pinch collar. In fact they're one of my favorite tools. People who don't know think they're medieval torture devices, but used correctly they will NOT cause a dog pain. And with such a strong breed . . you may need one in the future. But not now, I don't think. I'd recommend doing short training walks using positive reinforcement. Lots and lots of treats! What concerns me most is her timidity. Timidity in a large, powerful breed can be dangerous if it progresses to fear aggression. I'd be doing everything I could starting yesterday to socialize, socialize and socialize some more. In a calm and controlled way and in short sessions. But it would be a huge mistake to think you can wait on that. But one line of questioning: Have you really worked on acclimating/training her to wear a harness/collar? And be on a leash? Or are these unfamiliar to her? Does she wear the harness anytime besides when she's going for a walk? Is it possible she's reacting to them rather than to the walks? Some dogs you can just put a collar/harness/leash on and take off. Some will need a few days or even a week or more of wearing the harness/collar and dragging a leash around the house to get used to them. The flopping around you describe is a classic reaction of a young puppy unused to wearing a collar or harness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) I am very very very pro prong collar/pinch collar but in this case that’s not what I would do. But I would start looking at them for when she’s older if you need them. Just for the leverage. They look like torture devices but are actually much more gentle to the neck than pulling into a regular flat color. Try one on yourself to feel it. But anyways for this I would stop feeding her out of a bowl and only feed her when you were walking away from the house. You might have to up the ante to something that tastes better than her normal kibble for a little while. So give her bits of chicken as you walk away then kibble went she is moving more enthusiastically? Something along those lines. Basically you need to up her motivation. The other option, and one I would probably try first to be honest, it’s just to keep going. Act like you didn’t notice that she Stopped. They can’t follow you if you don’t keep moving so keep moving. Don't look back, don't cajole her, don't tempt her, just keep moving. If that doesn’t work after a few tries it then I would go to just feeding her on walks. Oh, and I would start walking her as often as possible. Not once a day, but like once an hour. Repetition repetition repetition. I’m not about alpha dog and all that dominance nonsense, but you do need to show her that you are the leader. That if you say it is time to go for a walk it is safe to do so and she should follow you. Edited October 31, 2018 by Ktgrok 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 No advice but omg she is adorable! I love love love Newfies! ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I also adore Them! But yeah, I would be taking her out to walk as often as possible, like I said, maybe every hour even. You don’t have to go far. Just walk for a block away from the house and then back toward the house. When she is pulling to get towards the house every time she hits the end of the leash you turn and go the other way. You will go in a lot of circles for a while. But she will figure out that she needs to keep an eye out where you were going and that will keep her closer to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Good solid advice here. I dislike harnesses if you don't want your dog to pull, as that is a dog's natural instinct to pull when harnassed. I have a "roading harness" that is designed for resistance training/pulling but not for "not pulling." 11 weeks. Keep it short. My advice would be to feed regular portions of raw beef heart as Newfoundlands are one of the breeds with known taurine deficiency problems. Best, Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Ps thanks for the picture, she’s adorable! puppy pics seem to lift my spirits 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spy Car said: Good solid advice here. I dislike harnesses if you don't want your dog to pull, as that is a dog's natural instinct to pull when harnassed. I have a "roading harness" that is designed for resistance training/pulling but not for "not pulling." 11 weeks. Keep it short. My advice would be to feed regular portions of raw beef heart as Newfoundlands are one of the breeds with known taurine deficiency problems. Best, Bill I haven't found the bolded to be true across the board. For some dogs--yes. For others the right harness works much better than a collar. Like many things dog it just depends on the individual. But of course the end goal is a well trained dog who has good leash manners regardless of whether he's wearing a collar or a harness. There are lots of ways to get there. Edited October 31, 2018 by Pawz4me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Pawz4me said: I haven't found the bolded to be true across the board. For some dogs--yes. For others a harness works much better than a collar. Like many things dog it just depends on the individual. I think with a larger, untrained dog a harness definitely gives the handler more control. But of course ideally you want a well trained dog who has good leash manners regardless of whether he's wearing a collar or a harness. It is a Newfoundland under discussion here. A toy breed might be a different story as the natural response of a dog to pull against a harness is easily overwhelmed by relative human mass and strength disparities with tiny dogs. Ideally, a well-trained dog should heel perfectly with or without a leash and collar of any kind. For training, a harness with a Newfoundland pup is a poor choice and simply asking for trouble IMO. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, Spy Car said: It is a Newfoundland under discussion here. A toy breed might be a different story as the natural response of a dog to pull against a harness is easily overwhelmed by relative human mass and strength disparities with tiny dogs. Ideally, a well-trained dog should heel perfectly with or without a leash and collar of any kind. For training, a harness with a Newfoundland pup is a poor choice and simply asking for trouble IMO. Bill I've worked with many dogs as big as Newfies. I stand by my statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I have no idea but I could stare at the picture of the puppy all day! How cute!!! ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, goldberry said: No advice but omg she is adorable! I love love love Newfies! ? Me too! My son came home from a friend's house last week and said, "They have a huge dog the size of our other neighbor's miniature horse!" I responded, "I bet it was a Newf!" and I showed him pictures and he said, "Yup, that was it." I think he wants one now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Newfies are wonderful dogs. If the no one has told you- large/giant breed dogs should not be taken on long walks when they are young. It puts stress on their joints and can cause joint problems down the road. For now- take very short walks ( I start by bringing along a treat cut into tiny pieces. Also carrots are great for training). In the beginning, leash and harness on and get a tiny piece. During the walk and after, give a tiny piece. Decrease as they get used to the short walks. Let her play in the water as it is great for them. You may want to check in your area and see if their is a Newfie club. They meet usually once a month and are a great resource. Newfies can be stubborn ones if you haven’t noticed;). They are great dogs (including the tumbleweeds of hair) and I would take another one in a heartbeat. Edited October 31, 2018 by itsheresomewhere 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Great advice, guys--I really appreciate it. I don't think the walks have been long--just around essentially a block. Our neighborhood has lots of cross streets and few cul-de-sacs, so there are lots of ways to walk a short distance. And it's not that she's bothered by the harness either. She will happily wear it and romp around the yard. It's just leaving the yard or house that she balks at. But I'll shorten the walks even farther, take more of them, and use the little training treats even more. I had gotten discouraged with them because I didn't think they were working at all. I'm glad to know she's not abnormal, and that it is fine for puppies to start taking walks later! I definitely don't want her to become fear aggressive either, so we are really trying to expose her to lots of friends, both people and doggie. She loves people (well, except for the elderly man raking his yard with a bright yellow rake yesterday morning. He came over to say hi, but she looked skeptically at his rake the whole time, lol.) so hopefully we are fine there. But she is so scared of any other dog she sees on her walks, and she has never had a bad experience with any mean dog, to my knowledge. The ones we have met, she will eventually wag her tail around and be playful, so hopefully we are on the right track there too. And Bill, thanks for the tip about beef liver. I will try to figure out how to obtain some. Where do you get yours? Thanks again for all the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, AFwife Claire said: Great advice, guys--I really appreciate it. I don't think the walks have been long--just around essentially a block. Our neighborhood has lots of cross streets and few cul-de-sacs, so there are lots of ways to walk a short distance. And it's not that she's bothered by the harness either. She will happily wear it and romp around the yard. It's just leaving the yard or house that she balks at. But I'll shorten the walks even farther, take more of them, and use the little training treats even more. I had gotten discouraged with them because I didn't think they were working at all. I'm glad to know she's not abnormal, and that it is fine for puppies to start taking walks later! I definitely don't want her to become fear aggressive either, so we are really trying to expose her to lots of friends, both people and doggie. She loves people (well, except for the elderly man raking his yard with a bright yellow rake yesterday morning. He came over to say hi, but she looked skeptically at his rake the whole time, lol.) so hopefully we are fine there. But she is so scared of any other dog she sees on her walks, and she has never had a bad experience with any mean dog, to my knowledge. The ones we have met, she will eventually wag her tail around and be playful, so hopefully we are on the right track there too. And Bill, thanks for the tip about beef liver. I will try to figure out how to obtain some. Where do you get yours? Thanks again for all the advice! Not that a little beef liver isn't an excellent supplement as well, but my suggestion is to add taurine-rich raw beef heart as a regular dietary item. Newfoundlands are among the breeds that are prone to taurine conversion issues, which can be catastrophic. For that reason I'd also suggest looking at the latest studies that cast doubts on peas, other legumes, and possibly other ingredients in lowering taurine levels in dogs. Thus far the research seems preliminary, but cause for concern (especially with a breed prone to taurine deficiencies. I shop at a large supermarket here in LA that carries beef heart (and liver and kidney), so life is easy for me. Otherwise it might require a special order with a friendly butcher. The good news is offal tends to be cheap. My suggestion is to get some, cut it up into pieces, pack the pieces in small ziplock bags, and then pull out individual servings (which most dogs are happy to eat straight from the freezer. Raw is best as cooking (especially wet cooking) degrades taurine. Best, Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I love, love, love newfies. Their fur? Not so much! The pic is totally adorable. And just for fun ... Here is my favorite newfie video. Oh, and I agree that he probably needs shorter, more frequent walks and lots of encouragement and socialization. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 14 hours ago, Spy Car said: Not that a little beef liver isn't an excellent supplement as well, but my suggestion is to add taurine-rich raw beef heart as a regular dietary item. Newfoundlands are among the breeds that are prone to taurine conversion issues, which can be catastrophic. For that reason I'd also suggest looking at the latest studies that cast doubts on peas, other legumes, and possibly other ingredients in lowering taurine levels in dogs. Thus far the research seems preliminary, but cause for concern (especially with a breed prone to taurine deficiencies. I shop at a large supermarket here in LA that carries beef heart (and liver and kidney), so life is easy for me. Otherwise it might require a special order with a friendly butcher. The good news is offal tends to be cheap. My suggestion is to get some, cut it up into pieces, pack the pieces in small ziplock bags, and then pull out individual servings (which most dogs are happy to eat straight from the freezer. Raw is best as cooking (especially wet cooking) degrades taurine. Best, Bill Ack, I totally meant to type "heart"! I shouldn't reply late at night, lol. I thought about a good friend of mine whose dad raises beef cattle in our area. I'll ask her where he gets them butchered and see if they have hearts to sell. Thanks for the info on food as well. I've read other threads where you've talked about raw diets with interest, as we've been thinking about getting a dog for awhile, so I have tried to read all the dog threads. Definitely worth pursuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I have no idea how to help you. I'm just here for puppy pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, AFwife Claire said: Ack, I totally meant to type "heart"! I shouldn't reply late at night, lol. I thought about a good friend of mine whose dad raises beef cattle in our area. I'll ask her where he gets them butchered and see if they have hearts to sell. Thanks for the info on food as well. I've read other threads where you've talked about raw diets with interest, as we've been thinking about getting a dog for awhile, so I have tried to read all the dog threads. Definitely worth pursuing. If you can get a whole heart, even better. At supermarkets, they trim off all the fat cap that surrounds the heart, so it is super-lean. The thing is, fat is the optimal source of energy for dogs, so "lean" isn't ideal (except for all the taurine in that beef heart). If you get a whole untrimmed heart, you'll get not only the taurine-rich meat but also a nice bit of fat that you can ration-out into servings as you break it down for the freezer. As to raw feeding, I first really learned of it on this forum (long time back). It sounded intriguing, but also more than a little weird. I was skeptical and delved very deeply into canine nutrition before I started with a new pup. I'd rank feeding a balanced PMR-style diet to my Vizsla as among the best decisions I've ever made. I only wish I knew then (with previous dogs) what I know now. It is by far the optimal way to feed and the differences in condition and stamina are not subtle vs feeding kibble. With this cattle connection of yours, another popular item among raw feeders is "green tripe." That is, the stomachs with the remains shaken out, but not cleaned, bleached, or scrubbed. Raw feeders treat this stuff like gold and (when I have it) it is always eaten first. Dogs love it. A big caveat, green tripe smells like fresh cow dung (naturally) so you'd want to bring a big tub if you pick some up. If the smell is too much of a turn-off, you could pass. But this is a very desirable item for raw feeders. That has turned an "almost free" type item into an almost boutique priced item. It is a little stinky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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