S/O how to prepare for elder parents care

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, this is true.  We are fairly committed to staying put because we convinced my parents to move.  As Cat mentioned there isn't a one size fits all.  I have known elderly parents who move several times with their children.  I would not be opposed to doing that but that is another reason I want to have not so much STUFF.

Moving is almost always expensive, no matter how little stuff you have. An elderly person or couple on a limited income with little/no savings doesn't need to be spending what little money they have ping ponging across the country.

These things are almost always much more complicated than many on this thread seem to realize.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Pawz4me

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I guess you didn’t realize that I was mostly joking with you when I posted. 

But again, what you consider perfectly reasonable may not be what your son will consider to be perfectly reasonable. And maybe your son’s future wife won’t think it’s a great idea for you to live nearby, no matter how wise a choice you may consider it to be. 

And moving far from your longtime home to live near your son may truly be the best idea for you, because you assume you will always be close to your son and his future family and you will be happiest living near him. But what if the relationship was different? What about the moms whose adult children are busy with their own lives and only visit Mom once a month, or maybe even less often than that, even though Mom moved to live near them because they told her it would be more convenient for them? What is Mom supposed to do the other 350+ days of the year? It’s not always easy for people to start brand new lives and make brand new friends and get brand new doctors and join brand new groups at 80 years old, and is it really fair to ask them to do that? I’m not so sure it is. If they want to do it, that’s fine, but their happiness needs to be strongly considered as well, particularly if they are still relatively healthy and active, or even if they’re not so healthy but have a strong support system.

My MIL moved from her lifelong home to live near us, and she did great, but she made friends very easily and adapted to changes very well. But a few of her neighbors in the senior housing community had moved there to be close to their kids, and they were miserable. They missed their old homes and their old friends and their churches and their regular activities. They were SAD and they were LONELY. They were such nice ladies, but they had such a hard time dealing with all of the changes in their lives. They hadn’t wanted to leave their old neighborhoods, but their adult kids had insisted their moms move near them... and then those kids hardly ever bothered to visit. 

I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all solution. Every family is different, and relationships between family members vary tremendously. If one family’s mom was always a narcissistic jerk who spent every nickel and never thought of anyone but herself, it makes sense that her adult children will feel differently about taking care of her in her golden years than another family whose mom was kind and loving and generous. But even in families with great relationships, there can be disagreements about what is and is not a reasonable life choice. And if major medical issues come into play, that adds another level of stress.

 

Of course there is no one size fits all, thus the word reasonable.  To the bolded, if that is true, or turns out to be true, then all bets are off and I have bigger problems then living near my son.  Because that would mean he has married a woman who has no interest in being involved in my care as I age and that would just be a great sadness---to me.  

[HS Mom in NC]

14 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

You appear to be generalizing and judging all Baby Boomers very negatively based on your own personal experiences with your own parents and in-laws. 

You may not mean it that way, but your post seems incredibly bitter toward an entire generation of the population.

I specified unreasonable Baby Boomers which implies a subset, if I meant all I wouldn't have used a qualifier like unreasonable  and I again used a the qualifier many Baby Boomers. You chose not to see them.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Moving is almost always expensive, no matter how little stuff you have. I don't think it would be a wise thing for elderly people with limited funds to do it often. Someone on a limited income with little/no savings doesn't need to be spending what little money they have ping ponging across the country.

These things are almost always much more complicated than many on this thread seem to realize.

I TOTALLY get how complicated it can be.  But I disagree that moving has to be expensive.  And I would assume no one is moving repeatedly without significant increase in pay anyway--

But really we weren't talking about the complicated stories....just the regular ones where adult kids have to move away for a job and an aging parent needs help but refuses to move to where their adult kids live.  

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I looked this up.  Around 30 states seem to have this. 

And this is a huge problem. The government thinks somehow non-rich people should have the magic money to put their kids through college and launch them into adult life, while at the same time, funding their parents' retirements and medical bills,and saving for our own health problems and future inability to work. This is not sustainable.

But, it's the government. Common sense left the capitol buildings a long, long time ago. Filial responsibility laws if enforced would put a huge number of working people on the fast track to bankruptcy and homelessness. That they cannot see this is proof of just how blind politicians have become.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I specified unreasonable Baby Boomers which implies a subset, if I meant all I wouldn't have used a qualifier like unreasonable  and I again used a the qualifier many Baby Boomers. You chose not to see them.

 

I saw your “qualifiers” just fine. 

But...  when you begin a post with, “Unreasonable Baby Boomers,” the implication is that Baby Boomers are unreasonable, even if that wasn’t your intention, and when the rest of the same post is incredibly negative, the overall tone of the post comes across as being very critical of Baby Boomers in general.

 

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I TOTALLY get how complicated it can be.  But I disagree that moving has to be expensive.  And I would assume no one is moving repeatedly without significant increase in pay anyway--

But really we weren't talking about the complicated stories....just the regular ones where adult kids have to move away for a job and an aging parent needs help but refuses to move to where their adult kids live.  

 

How is moving going to be inexpensive for an elderly person who isn’t able to pack and move their own belongings? Their adult kids may not be able to help, either because they live far away or because they’re not physically able to do the heavy lifting?

And people do move without significant increases in pay. If a person loses his job, he may need to move his family a long distance just to find any kind of work.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

How is moving going to be inexpensive for an elderly person who isn’t able to pack and move their own belongings? Their adult kids may not be able to help, either because they live far away or because they’re not physically able to do the heavy lifting?

And people do move without significant increases in pay. If a person loses his job, he may need to move his family a long distance just to find any kind of work.

Cat---gently because I do like you--but you live in an entirely different world than I do.  I am POSITIVE moving does NOT have to be expensive.  And obviously if every one is super low income and no one can help anyone do anything then maybe moving would not be the best option.  

[Pawz4me]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Cat---gently because I do like you--but you live in an entirely different world than I do.  I am POSITIVE moving does NOT have to be expensive.  And obviously if every one is super low income and no one can help anyone do anything then maybe moving would not be the best option.  

I may live in an entirely different world than you, too. I try to put myself in others' shoes and imagine what would/would not be considered expensive.

Case in point -- DS22 is getting ready to move into an apartment and start his career. Being freshly out of college he doesn't have a lot of stuff, so a small UHaul is all we need, and he and DS19 can do the manual work.

Renting a UHaul for a couple of days and driving it (round trip) just a couple of hundred miles is going to cost a couple of hundred dollars. He has to pay his first months' rent in advance, plus a security deposit. That comes to around $1500, I think. There was some other fee that had to do with a background check or something similar, but is being waived for him due to who his employer will be. I think that would have been $75. There was a $15 fee to set up his account with the power company. I'm not sure how much the renter's insurance was, but let's say $100 for a year. So that's coming close to $2,000 just to move a 22 yo into his first apartment, with him (and us) doing the lifting of his minimal stuff. My guess is that for people with limited income and limited savings $2,000 is not a small sum. And that is for  a very basic, almost a local move.

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Cat---gently because I do like you--but you live in an entirely different world than I do.  I am POSITIVE moving does NOT have to be expensive.  And obviously if every one is super low income and no one can help anyone do anything then maybe moving would not be the best option.  

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but I’m wondering how moving can be inexpensive for an elderly person who doesn’t have much help. 

Even at my age, if I was on my own and had to move far away, I would have to hire movers to help me, because I couldn’t carry heavy boxes or furniture by myself. I could do the packing, but not the actual moving, and then I would also have to hire someone to remove the big and heavy things from my house that I wasn’t taking with me but that weren’t worth selling or donating.

I don’t know how I could do all those things inexpensively on my own and am genuinely curious about how it could be done.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Catwoman
Edited for stupid typos!

[Pen]

 

There are lots of different situations that people will be in. 

People Sharing (crowdsourcing, in a sense) thoughts, knowledge, experience, plans, and also feelings, is something I really appreciate hearing, and even if details in someone else’s life may be very different from mine, I am still learning a lot. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I may live in an entirely different world than you, too. I try to put myself in others' shoes and imagine what would/would not be considered expensive.

Case in point -- DS22 is getting ready to move into an apartment and start his career. Being freshly out of college he doesn't have a lot of stuff, so a small UHaul is all we need, and he and DS19 can do the manual work.

Renting a UHaul for a couple of days and driving it (round trip) just a couple of hundred miles is going to cost a couple of hundred dollars. He has to pay his first months' rent in advance, plus a security deposit. That comes to around $1500, I think. There was some other fee that had to do with a background check or something similar, but is being waived for him due to who his employer will be. I think that would have been $75. There was a $15 fee to set up his account with the power company. I'm not sure how much the renter's insurance was, but let's say $100 for a year. So that's coming close to $2,000 just to move a 22 yo into his first apartment, with him (and us) doing the lifting of his minimal stuff. My guess is that for people with limited income and limited savings $2,000 is not a small sum. And that is for  a very basic, almost a local move.

 

Those are excellent points. I had only been thinking of the actual moving of “stuff,” not all of the additional expenses you mentioned, and that still seemed to add up to quite a bit of money.

If a person is fortunate enough to have lots of strong friends and family to help them pack and move, and then to help them put all of that stuff into their new home, I can see how that could be fairly inexpensive for a local move, but a long distance move would still involve paying to feed those helpers, paying for their gas, and probably also paying for hotel rooms on the trip if it was a multi-day drive. And wouldn’t most of us want to pay them something for their time, as well? 

And again, many people don’t have the option of getting friends or family to help them move.

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but I’m wondering how moving can be inexpensive for an elderly person who doesn’t have much help. 

Even at my age, if I was on my own and had to move far away, I would have to hire movers to help me, because I couldn’t carry heavy boxes or furniture by myself. I could do the packing, but not the actual moving, and then I would also have to hire someone to remove the big and heavy things from my house that I wasn’t taking with me but that weren’t worth selling or donating.

I don’t know how I could do all those things inexpensively on my own and am genuinely curious about how it could be done.

I agree, moving is expensive. The reality is that the people who are working cannot be the ones to move away from work to the elders. When one has many years of work ahead, one can't give up paying jobs because elders don't want to move. So either someone pays for it, or the elders languish alone. It is what it is. 

I do know one couple who simply sold out everything, got on a plane, and arrived in their new state with two suitcases a piece, having spent a few dollars on sending some boxes of photographs ahead. But, they were minimalists, and they didn't care about stuff, and did not want the expense of moving it. They wanted to be near their kids who were two thousand plus miles away and had jobs with benefits they couldn't just willy nilly give up. They rented a furnished cottage nearby. Of course, it helped that the proceeds of the sale of their house would pay that rent for many years to come.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

I agree, moving is expensive. The reality is that the people who are working cannot be the ones to move away from work to the elders. When one has many years of work ahead, one can't give up paying jobs because elders don't want to move. So either someone pays for it, or the elders languish alone. It is what it is. 

I do know one couple who simply sold out everything, got on a plane, and arrived in their new state with two suitcases a piece, having spent a few dollars on sending some boxes of photographs ahead. But, they were minimalists, and they didn't care about stuff, and did not want the expense of moving it. They wanted to be near their kids who were two thousand plus miles away and had jobs with benefits they couldn't just willy nilly give up. They rented a furnished cottage nearby. Of course, it helped that the proceeds of the sale of their house would pay that rent for many years to come.

After moving my parents I am really determined to get to close to that point.  

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I do know one couple who simply sold out everything, got on a plane, and arrived in their new state with two suitcases a piece, having spent a few dollars on sending some boxes of photographs ahead. But, they were minimalists, and they didn't care about stuff, and did not want the expense of moving it. 

When I first came to the US, I moved with a suitcase and a backpack.

[Catwoman]

24 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

After moving my parents I am really determined to get to close to that point.  

 

I doubt I’ll ever get close to that point, but I have been doing some major decluttering lately, and part of the reason for that is because of reading threads here by people who were overwhelmed by the massive amounts of stuff they had to deal with when their parents passed away. I don’t want my son to have to deal with disposing of a ton of extra junk, or even worse, feeling that he needs to keep a lot of it for sentimental value. 

[Catwoman]

29 minutes ago, regentrude said:

When I first came to the US, I moved with a suitcase and a backpack.

 

I think that is so cool! I pack more than that when I’m going away for the weekend, so clearly I haven’t yet learned how to embrace my inner minimalist.

I think my inner minimalist might have gotten lost somewhere in the abyss of my upstairs hall closet, and if that’s what happened, I may never see her again. ? 

[Faith-manor]

We did find out that there is a junk selling group we can hire to clean out her house. Well more to the point, we sign a contract that they get the contents of the house in exchange for cleaning it out and getting it ready for sale. I guess this group pays to have a small dumpster put on the property, sorts and tosses, and then runs an estate sale with what is left. They will do an evaluation though and if there isn't enough good stuff on the house to make it worth doing, then we'd have to pay a $1000.00 fee up front for the work. It would be worth it to me. She won't get rid of much of anything, and my father was a pack rat. But, there is also some good fishing and hunting equipment, and a few antiques. Either way, I think that when the time comes, that is what we'll do. I am not likely to ever have a job with ample paid vacation so that I can tackle it in a timely manner, and frankly, when my boys are home from college, I'd much prefer we spend time together that ISN'T wading up to our eyeballs horded stuff, and then cleaning it and running a sale or making multiple trips to the landfill or Goodwill or whatever.

I recently started putting money into a savings account for that. I want that money there for this service. It is a big issue for me. I feel overwhelmed by her house, and it causes a lot of stress.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We did find out that there is a junk selling group we can hire to clean out her house. Well more to the point, we sign a contract that they get the contents of the house in exchange for cleaning it out and getting it ready for sale. I guess this group pays to have a small dumpster put on the property, sorts and tosses, and then runs an estate sale with what is left. They will do an evaluation though and if there isn't enough good stuff on the house to make it worth doing, then we'd have to pay a $1000.00 fee up front for the work. It would be worth it to me. She won't get rid of much of anything, and my father was a pack rat. But, there is also some good fishing and hunting equipment, and a few antiques. Either way, I think that when the time comes, that is what we'll do. I am not likely to ever have a job with ample paid vacation so that I can tackle it in a timely manner, and frankly, when my boys are home from college, I'd much prefer we spend time together that ISN'T wading up to our eyeballs horded stuff, and then cleaning it and running a sale or making multiple trips to the landfill or Goodwill or whatever.

I recently started putting money into a savings account for that. I want that money there for this service. It is a big issue for me. I feel overwhelmed by her house, and it causes a lot of stress.

 

I think that’s a very wise decision, Faith.

[Hoggirl]

45 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I doubt I’ll ever get close to that point, but I have been doing some major decluttering lately, and part of the reason for that is because of reading threads here by people who were overwhelmed by the massive amounts of stuff they had to deal with when their parents passed away. I don’t want my son to have to deal with disposing of a ton of extra junk, or even worse, feeling that he needs to keep a lot of it for sentimental value. 

This is why we did exactly what we did.  If we were to die today, our ds would have to contend with an easy-to-sell, 935 sq ft funished condo, across the street from the beach and one 5 x 5 storage unit (with a third of the stuff in there being his).  I will NEVER go back to having a lot of stuff.  If I decide I want a 3-BR condo at some point, I’ll do that, but it won’t be over 1,300 sq ft, and it won’t be filled to the brim with stuff.  Ds would have to get rid of our clothes and whatever is in the tiny pantry and under our bathroom sinks. He could sell the condo furnished, or take whatever furniture he wanted and then sell it, or keep the condo for himself.  Any way he were to choose would be easy.  My parents died very unexpectedly and left me (at the ripe old age of 24) with a 4,000 sq ft house filled. to. the. brim. with STUFF!  So much stuff.  Not hoarders, but “keepers” of many things because they might be useful.  Huge house with lots of storage. I kept and held onto to a lot of my mother’s knickknacks and “stuff” for sentimental reasons for MUCH longer than I should have.  When we downsized, I asked ds if there was anything like that he wanted us to keep with the move.  All he asked us to keep were the Christmas ornaments (there are many, but those are light-weight and easy to deal with). 

So, you go, girl.  Declutter away!  Your children will thank you for it.  

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

This is why we did exactly what we did.  If we were to die today, our ds would have to contend with an easy-to-sell, 935 sq ft funished condo, across the street from the beach and one 5 x 5 storage unit (with a third of the stuff in there being his).  I will NEVER go back to having a lot of stuff.  If I decide I want a 3-BR condo at some point, I’ll do that, but it won’t be over 1,300 sq ft, and it won’t be filled to the brim with stuff.  Ds would have to get rid of our clothes and whatever is in the tiny pantry and under our bathroom sinks. He could sell the condo furnished, or take whatever furniture he wanted and then sell it, or keep the condo for himself.  Any way he were to choose would be easy.  My parents died very unexpectedly and left me (at the ripe old age of 24) with a 4,000 sq ft house filled. to. the. brim. with STUFF!  So much stuff.  Not hoarders, but “keepers” of many things because they might be useful.  Huge house with lots of storage. I kept and held onto to a lot of my mother’s knickknacks and “stuff” for sentimental reasons for MUCH longer than I should have.  When we downsized, I asked ds if there was anything like that he wanted us to keep with the move.  All he asked us to keep were the Christmas ornaments (there are many, but those are light-weight and easy to deal with). 

So, you go, girl.  Declutter away!  Your children will thank you for it.  

 

I’m so sorry to hear that your parents died when you were so young, Cynthia, and to lose both of them so unexpectedly must have been such a horrible, devastating shock. ?

My ds is 18 now, and if something happened to dh and I, ds would be left to deal with three houses full of stuff (not hoarder-type stuff, but he sure wouldn’t need three of every household item,) and when I think about it, that’s just way too much. I think I need to start making some big decisions!

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

We did find out that there is a junk selling group we can hire to clean out her house. Well more to the point, we sign a contract that they get the contents of the house in exchange for cleaning it out and getting it ready for sale. I guess this group pays to have a small dumpster put on the property, sorts and tosses, and then runs an estate sale with what is left. They will do an evaluation though and if there isn't enough good stuff on the house to make it worth doing, then we'd have to pay a $1000.00 fee up front for the work. It would be worth it to me. She won't get rid of much of anything, and my father was a pack rat. But, there is also some good fishing and hunting equipment, and a few antiques. Either way, I think that when the time comes, that is what we'll do. I am not likely to ever have a job with ample paid vacation so that I can tackle it in a timely manner, and frankly, when my boys are home from college, I'd much prefer we spend time together that ISN'T wading up to our eyeballs horded stuff, and then cleaning it and running a sale or making multiple trips to the landfill or Goodwill or whatever.

I recently started putting money into a savings account for that. I want that money there for this service. It is a big issue for me. I feel overwhelmed by her house, and it causes a lot of stress.

 

There are estate sale companies all over the country that do this exact thing.

[Pen]

If people have had experience with setting up trusts, or maybe even more important, getting to the point where the needed to be used and perhaps learning the hard way things they might wish they had done differently, I’d like to know more about that. 

[Annie G]

We have a legacy box that our adult kids have been shown. It includes a notebook with our monthly budget including all account numbers and which are on autopay (such as utilities). Also it has every credit card we have, a list of all our bank accounts, investment accounts, medical information, health insurance info, copies of our advance directives, copies of care titles, etc.  It has everything they need to take care of us in the event we need help, whether temporary or permanent. Oldest Dd is signed on our safe deposit box and has signing rights (but not ownership) of a bank account to cover our bills. The box has the safe deposit box key and a list of what’s in the safe deposit box, such as the wills.  

‘We tried to get my dad and fil to do this but were met with such resistance that nothing was accomplished. It’s so selfish to not be prepared and leave family members both unprepared and distraught in an emergency. 

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

 

Annie (and others),

Add to this all the UserIDs and passwords to online accounts, financial and otherwise.  I have a friend who is an estate attorney and he said this is an enormous revenue stream for them, tracking this stuff down for survivors.  He wishes it were not so.  

Include social media, subscriptions (Netflix and the like), AmazonPrime and the like, cell phone accounts, bank accounts, insurance accounts, online accounting programs AND computer-based accounting software, computers, servers, cell phones, and probably some I am missing.  So much is done online these days that you just have to have access to it all.  

That’s part of our notebook, and we each also keep a document on our computer/iPad with that info. Our kids know how to find that info. It was SUPER helpful when Mom passed away. Dad wasn’t in any way computer savvy enough and my sisters and I were pretty distraught. But dh was able to access Mom’s email and social media and was able to contact people she knew online and to delete her Facebook account, among other tasks that were computer related.  

 

[DoraBora]

1 hour ago, Annie G said:

We have a legacy box that our adult kids have been shown. It includes a notebook with our monthly budget including all account numbers and which are on autopay (such as utilities). Also it has every credit card we have, a list of all our bank accounts, investment accounts, medical information, health insurance info, copies of our advance directives, copies of care titles, etc.  It has everything they need to take care of us in the event we need help, whether temporary or permanent. Oldest Dd is signed on our safe deposit box and has signing rights (but not ownership) of a bank account to cover our bills. The box has the safe deposit box key and a list of what’s in the safe deposit box, such as the wills.  

‘We tried to get my dad and fil to do this but were met with such resistance that nothing was accomplished. It’s so selfish to not be prepared and leave family members both unprepared and distraught in an emergency. 

Great idea!  I hadn't thought of listing credit cards and health insurance info...  ?

Regarding bank accounts:  My mom had signing rights (but not ownership) of the checking account into which all of my parents' income was electronically deposited each month.  She would periodically write herself a check for deposit into her own account for personal spending.  (I have no idea how that system evolved!)  When the bank learned of my father's death, they froze the account (with the bulk of her money) until his will could be probated.  She had a small amount of money in her own account, a Visa card, and my siblings and me for backup, but it was a long month.  

A banker told us that signing rights are terminated (We are in Texas -- it might be different elsewhere.) upon the death of the account owner.  If they had known, Dad could have easily filed a Payable on Death or Designation of Transfer on Death form with the bank and she could have had access to the money as soon as she had a death certificate (about ten days after his death).

This is just something that is good to know.  I do wonder whether it would apply to safe deposit boxes as well... 

We have copies of our wills at home.  Our attorney also keeps copies.

[Annie G]

11 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Great idea!  I hadn't thought of listing credit cards and health insurance info...  ?

Regarding bank accounts:  My mom had signing rights (but not ownership) of the checking account into which all of my parents' income was electronically deposited each month.  She would periodically write herself a check for deposit into her own account for personal spending.  (I have no idea how that system evolved!)  When the bank learned of my father's death, they froze the account (with the bulk of her money) until his will could be probated.  She had a small amount of money in her own account, a Visa card, and my siblings and me for backup, but it was a long month.  

A banker told us that signing rights are terminated (We are in Texas -- it might be different elsewhere.) upon the death of the account owner.  If they had known, Dad could have easily filed a Payable on Death or Designation of Transfer on Death form with the bank and she could have had access to the money as soon as she had a death certificate (about ten days after his death).

This is just something that is good to know.  I do wonder whether it would apply to safe deposit boxes as well... 

We have copies of our wills at home.  Our attorney also keeps copies.

Thanks for that heads up! We were told Dd would be able to get into the safe deposit box if we passed away but we should check into that again. Dh told me that Dd is a signer and also beneficiary in case we both pass. There’s enough there to cover expenses for a while and to cover cremation costs for us.  We’re planning to relocate to our home state next year so I should check into the rules there. 

I’m working so hard to make things as easy as possible for our kids as we age and when we pass. Dh and I have lost our moms and both dads have enough money but NOTHING is organized. It’s going to be such a mess.  I don’t want to do that to my kids.  My dad has advance directives and says his lawyer has THE ONLY copy, and says we don’t need the lawyer’s name or contact info yet. Yeah, dad, you’re 85 and a lousy driver....

[Hoggirl]

I have a “payable on death” account for ds that has approximately $55,000 in it.  I set it up initially so he could easily pay for funeral costs and at least fund a quarter of college prior to probate in case something were to happen to us.  

 

[Bambam]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:50 AM, Catwoman said:

 

I think the problem is that everyone thinks they’re being reasonable — it’s other people who are being unreasonable! ?

I think the real problem is as you get older, you lose some, I don't know, ability to be concerned for others? At least I saw that with my parents and my FIL. They were in bad shape, but they only wanted certain people to care for them in certain places. The previous ability/concern to know that what they were asking was too much for the caregiver - that seemed to be gone. In some ways, they had the infant/toddler mindset of me first. Talking to others, I think this is not untypical.

So, I think talking to your kids/spouse/etc about that is not who/what you want to be, so please know NOW that I want you to take care of you and help me as you can regardless of what I say then when I might not be myself. And, please, feel no guilt. Do what you can, but your family (husband, kids) and your health should come before me. 

[regentrude]

11 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

I have a “payable on death” account for ds that has approximately $55,000 in it.  I set it up initially so he could easily pay for funeral costs and at least fund a quarter of college prior to probate in case something were to happen to us.  

We declared our kids payable-on-death beneficiaries for all our accounts, so they will be able to access them without waiting for probate. With many banks, this can be done online.

Edited July 31, 2018 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Bambam said:

I think the real problem is as you get older, you lose some, I don't know, ability to be concerned for others? At least I saw that with my parents and my FIL. They were in bad shape, but they only wanted certain people to care for them in certain places. The previous ability/concern to know that what they were asking was too much for the caregiver - that seemed to be gone. In some ways, they had the infant/toddler mindset of me first. Talking to others, I think this is not untypical.

So, I think talking to your kids/spouse/etc about that is not who/what you want to be, so please know NOW that I want you to take care of you and help me as you can regardless of what I say then when I might not be myself. And, please, feel no guilt. Do what you can, but your family (husband, kids) and your health should come before me. 

I have watched various people age and not all become difficult.  One elderly friend--in her 80s now---is widowed and never had children.  She has one nephew. She is so agreeable.  She had to move to assisted living a year or so back and she is just so kind to everyone.  Not demanding.  So I want to be like that.  And I think it takes a conscious effort BEFORE old age to maintain that willing and cooperative and thankful spirit. 

[Annie G]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

We declared our kids payable-on-death beneficiaries for all our accounts, so they will be able to access them without waiting for probate. With many banks, this can be done online.

That’s great when your kids have a good relationship with each other and when they are mature enough. In our case at least one shouldn’t have access to substantial money. Any suggestion there? The will covers their inheritance but is it enough to have oldest Dd to have access to one account that is meant to cover those immediate expenses?

 

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Annie G said:

That’s great when your kids have a good relationship with each other and when they are mature enough. In our case at least one shouldn’t have access to substantial money. Any suggestion there? The will covers their inheritance but is it enough to have oldest Dd to have access to one account that is meant to cover those immediate expenses?

If I recall correctly, if you designate POD beneficiaries, you can assign a percentage for each.

How did you handle the kid who should not have access to the money in your will? Did you give him/her a smaller share, or establish a trust, or designate a financial conservator?

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If I recall correctly, if you designate POD beneficiaries, you can assign a percentage for each.

How did you handle the kid who should not have access to the money in your will? Did you give him/her a smaller share, or establish a trust, or designate a financial conservator?

 

Some of this apparently depends on bank rules and perhaps state rules.  But even if a bank will not allow different percentage POD on a single account, separate accounts with single POD could probably accomplish this  

Trusts, which I would like to learn more about, can be used to distribute in any percentage one wants, and so far as I know can also be used to limit access for someone who seems to not have good ability to handle money. 

[Pen]

28 minutes ago, Annie G said:

That’s great when your kids have a good relationship with each other and when they are mature enough. In our case at least one shouldn’t have access to substantial money. Any suggestion there? The will covers their inheritance but is it enough to have oldest Dd to have access to one account that is meant to cover those immediate expenses?

 

 

Or there could be a problem of there being only one child and that child not being one who should handle money. 

And there is the problem of what happens when circumstances do not go from well directly to dead, but how to handle things if there is a time of diminished capacity in between. 

[Bambam]

42 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I have watched various people age and not all become difficult.  One elderly friend--in her 80s now---is widowed and never had children.  She has one nephew. She is so agreeable.  She had to move to assisted living a year or so back and she is just so kind to everyone.  Not demanding.  So I want to be like that.  And I think it takes a conscious effort BEFORE old age to maintain that willing and cooperative and thankful spirit. 

 

I hope you are right! That is what I want too, but I am hopeful that is what everyone wants. Continual and unrelieved pain can impact what we want though. 

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

If I recall correctly, if you designate POD beneficiaries, you can assign a percentage for each.

How did you handle the kid who should not have access to the money in your will? Did you give him/her a smaller share, or establish a trust, or designate a financial conservator?

A smallish lump sum at first and then a trust. We worry that if she had POD she would take it all (not share with sibs) and blow it on things that would cause more harm than good. 

‘We really hope she will get her act together and we can eliminate that provision. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Annie G

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Annie G said:

A smallish lump sum at first and then a trust. We worry that if she had POD she would take it all (not share with sibs) and blow it on things that would cause more harm than good. 

That makes sense. Just a general note, about not sharing with siblings: you can designate multiple POD beneficiaries and assign each a percentage of the asset. THat way, you decide how they have to share, and it does not depend on the siblings' good will.

[Annie G]

Just now, regentrude said:

That makes sense. Just a general note, about not sharing with siblings: you can designate multiple POD beneficiaries and assign each a percentage of the asset. THat way, you decide how they have to share, and it does not depend on the siblings' good will.

How does that work in practice? Can one person go in and close the account and take it all? does the bank/credit union prevent that? 

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, Annie G said:

How does that work in practice? Can one person go in and close the account and take it all? does the bank/credit union prevent that? 

I think it is the bank's responsibility to ensure the account is divided according to the percentages the account holder has designated. This information is filed with the bank. If there are multiple beneficiaries, one cannot take all. Issues arise when the asset is not easily dividable (single large bonds) or when decisions must be made about letting CDs etc mature vs cashing out, because beneficiaries need to make a joint decision. But for an account that is dividable, I believe the bank handles that. Ask your financial institution to make sure.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by regentrude

[Lang Syne Boardie]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have watched various people age and not all become difficult.  One elderly friend--in her 80s now---is widowed and never had children.  She has one nephew. She is so agreeable.  She had to move to assisted living a year or so back and she is just so kind to everyone.  Not demanding.  So I want to be like that.  And I think it takes a conscious effort BEFORE old age to maintain that willing and cooperative and thankful spirit. 

 

#concerned

I don't think I've left myself enough years for practice.

[fairfarmhand]

Yeah, my mom was a contented cheerful soul all her life. In her 12 years with cancer, disfigurement, disability, loss of dignity, loss of her personality, etc she never once complained or asked why. Just a quiet acceptance and cheerful smile despite her circumstances. But she was like that her whole life. 

[Annie G]

3 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yeah, my mom was a contented cheerful soul all her life. In her 12 years with cancer, disfigurement, disability, loss of dignity, loss of her personality, etc she never once complained or asked why. Just a quiet acceptance and cheerful smile despite her circumstances. But she was like that her whole life. 

That how my mother in law was, through two cancers and dementia. Even when she thought I was hired help she treated me kindly. 

[fairfarmhand]

10 hours ago, Annie G said:

That how my mother in law was, through two cancers and dementia. Even when she thought I was hired help she treated me kindly. 

But my dad on the other hand...

[linders]

Between DH and I, we only have one living parent, my mom. I am very fortunate that she is practical - at 84 years old, she still lives on her own, in a senior-friendly one story duplex, but has gradually added on more support, most notably a housecleaner (started at just once every couple of months for heavy lifting, now once every 2 weeks, and very inexpensive). She only drives within a 10 mile radius on wide, quiet streets to the store, the doctor, and the rec center. Anything or anyone further must come to her. She has organized all finances, and my brother and I have copies and POA for everything. And she researched and visited assisted care places and has chosen the one she wants to go to when necessary.

I'm very grateful for all this, especially when I hear some of the stories. I only hope I can do the same...

[Annie G]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

But my dad on the other hand...

Same here with my dad.  Since my mom passed he’s become so unfiltered. And unreasonable and selfish. 

[Pen]

I have started gathering information and reading about “aging in place”.  

My house as is could be very hard for aging in place.  But maybe an age in place something else could be added or built.  Have any of you done this?

 

Someone upthread wrote about importance of being able to live off interest on savings. What are safe ways to invest in order to do that?  

There seem to be people who thought they were secure but then lost a lot in financial debacles. 

[Spryte]

I haven’t been able to read all of this thread, because it’s hitting close to home.  But ... I feel I need to put this here, as a cautionary tale.

First, DH and I care for my in laws.  They planned and moved to assisted living near us.  They still require a ton of care, and it’s expensive.  He has a pension and they use their long term care insurance.  Without the insurance, we’d never be able to afford their care ($9K per month right now, and they are not in an expensive place).  Both are tag teaming us and we’ve had very few weeks in the last two years without one or the other in the hospital.  It’s hard.

But that’s not my cautionary tale.  ?

If any of you have a single mom out there ... be strong and cautious for her.  My mother moved in with her “sweetie” 3 years ago, at 74.  He reeled us all in.  And he has taken her for every penny.  He slowly isolated her, and I’ve known for two years that it was bad, but finally got the call to go get her two weeks ago.  I could not convince her before, and wasn’t insistent enough as I didn’t know the extent of it all.  And so here we are, now:  my 77 yr old mother has zero assets (they are all gone!!!), debt, and not a penny to her name.  She has moved in with us, we’ve started establishing residency and getting him off her POA.  New accounts.  New everything.  He wants her back, for the income she brings in, but she will not go.  We are investigating restraining orders today.  So ... be cautious and aware, if you have a single elderly mom.  They can get scammed.

...my heart hurts, just sharing that much of our recent story...

Edited August 1, 2018 by Spryte

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I haven’t been able to read all of this thread, because it’s hitting close to home.  But ... I feel I need to put this here, as a cautionary tale.

First, DH and I care for my in laws.  They planned and moved to assisted living near us.  They still require a ton of care, and it’s expensive.  He has a pension and they use their long term care insurance.  Without the insurance, we’d never be able to afford their care ($9K per month right now, and they are not in an expensive place).  Both are tag teaming us and we’ve had very few weeks in the last two years without one or the other in the hospital.  It’s hard.

But that’s not my cautionary tale.  ?

If any of you have a single mom out there ... be strong and cautious for her.  My mother moved in with her “sweetie” 3 years ago, at 74.  He reeled us all in.  And he has taken her for every penny.  He slowly isolated her, and I’ve known for two years that it was bad, but finally got the call to go get her two weeks ago.  I could not convince her before, and wasn’t insistent enough as I didn’t know the extent of it all.  And so here we are, now:  my 77 yr old mother has zero assets (they are all gone!!!), debt, and not a penny to her name.  She has moved in with us, we’ve started establishing residency and getting him off her POA.  New accounts.  New everything.  He wants her back, for the income she brings in, but she will not go.  We are investigating restraining orders today.  So ... be cautious and aware, if you have a single elderly mom.  They can get scammed.

...my heart hurts, just sharing that much of our recent story...

 

?  Oh no, that’s awful.

Thank you for sharing all this. I think a similar thing may be happening with a single uncle in my family and I know someone whose father almost got taken in by a young woman—so it can happen with men too. 

The hard thing might be figuring out how to avoid it in the first place. 

Other scams too. 

I think there have been articles about older people being especially preyed on and vulnerable to scams. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Pen

[Pawz4me]

30 minutes ago, Spryte said:

If any of you have a single mom out there ... be strong and cautious for her.  My mother moved in with her “sweetie” 3 years ago, at 74.  He reeled us all in.  And he has taken her for every penny.  He slowly isolated her, and I’ve known for two years that it was bad, but finally got the call to go get her two weeks ago.  I could not convince her before, and wasn’t insistent enough as I didn’t know the extent of it all.  And so here we are, now:  my 77 yr old mother has zero assets (they are all gone!!!), debt, and not a penny to her name.  She has moved in with us, we’ve started establishing residency and getting him off her POA.  New accounts.  New everything.  He wants her back, for the income she brings in, but she will not go.  We are investigating restraining orders today.  So ... be cautious and aware, if you have a single elderly mom.  They can get scammed.

...my heart hurts, just sharing that much of our recent story...

I'm so sorry that happened to your mom and that you're having to deal with the fallout. A similar thing happened to a friend of my MIL. And I don't think stuff like that is limited to women--elderly men are just as vulnerable.