Perfect Grades Don't Always Matter

[MarkT]

The Atlantic Magazine:

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/547163/perfect-grades-dont-matter/

[ErinE]

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Edited February 19, 2018 by ErinE

[KungFuPanda]

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to explain that that that “one percent inspiration†won’t get you very far in real life.†NOBODY wants to do the grunt work for YOUR genius ideas. You’ve got to develop a work ethic and some follow through.

[G5052]

Don't matter completely, but they do matter.

 

I worked for an employer that required a 3.5 in each level of education just to get an interview. DH worked for an employer that required a 3.0.

[MarkT]

FYI the video is mainly about HS grades 

[Tanaqui]

This was my mother's oft-stated mantra, after having gone to a very well-regarded high school and knowing too many kids who only cared about test scores: It doesn't matter what grade you got, just so long as you learned the material.

 

Consequently, she raised two very bright, well-educated daughters who have a vast amount of knowledge about a broad range of subjects... but boy howdy, our class grades sucked*. She could've emphasized the importance of grades just a tiny bit more!

 

* Pro tip to all professional teachers: If you can't actually fail a kid who got 100% on all their tests just because they didn't do their homework or classwork, don't threaten to do it. You're teaching them all the wrong things when every year, every class, they get a lecture about how you made "an exception" for them because they're "really very smart" but "nobody else will".

[G5052]

* Pro tip to all professional teachers: If you can't actually fail a kid who got 100% on all their tests just because they didn't do their homework or classwork, don't threaten to do it. You're teaching them all the wrong things when every year, every class, they get a lecture about how you made "an exception" for them because they're "really very smart" but "nobody else will".

 

I encounter this all the time in my college classes. When I hear the "but in high school..." phrase, I'm prepared for them basically asking for a concession that I cannot grant. Grading at the college where I work is highly regimented because of legal issues.I'm allowed to give an extra day if they ask for it, but beyond that, they must provide documentation. Sometimes that's hard to ask for. This semester I had a student who lost her mother and had to donate her body to science because they had no money for a service, burial, or media obituaries. So I had to ask for a copy of the death certificate. I had to have that documentation because I have to have that on file to make an exception.

 

Lawsuits against professors who make special cases for individual students are not uncommon in my area, but apparently some high schools do that without worrying about the ramifications.

[ErinE]

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Edited February 19, 2018 by ErinE

[snowbeltmom]

Yes, perfect grades don't always matter.  On another thread, we have been talking about grade inflation at many high schools.  I know students who have perfect GPA, yet struggle to score in the low 20s on the ACT.  A perfect GPA, many times, does not indicate a rigorous education or mastery of the material actually taught. 

[MarkT]

Yes, perfect grades don't always matter.  On another thread, we have been talking about grade inflation at many high schools.  I know students who have perfect GPA, yet struggle to score in the low 20s on the ACT.  A perfect GPA, many times, does not indicate a rigorous education or mastery of the material actually taught. 

Grade inflation is rampant in the schools these days.

Is this a way to make Johnny feel better about himself??

Everybody gets a trophy.

[Joyofsixreboot]

They mattered a lot in terms of local scholarships. As a matter of fact almost exclusively. DD'S 4.0 was woth $8000. They didn't as for test scores.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Arcadia]

Grade inflation is rampant in the schools these days.

Is this a way to make Johnny feel better about himself??

Everybody gets a trophy.

It’s the parents locally, kids couldn’t care less for K-8. The high school kids do care because of the GPA for college admissions.

 

It is also to get parents off the school’s back. Many parents see As for middle school and didn’t realize their kids did not have mastery of math until the child flounder in 9th grade math and science. It’s sad actually.

 

As an aside from grade inflation, being able to take algebra 1 in 7th grade for my district does depend on the child’s math grade in 6th grade.

 

I do agree that perfect grades doesn’t matter and even my perfectionist kid agrees that he doesn’t need perfect scores. It is a nice to have but not worth retaking numerous times to chase that score.

[Kassia]

Yes, perfect grades don't always matter.  On another thread, we have been talking about grade inflation at many high schools.  I know students who have perfect GPA, yet struggle to score in the low 20s on the ACT.  A perfect GPA, many times, does not indicate a rigorous education or mastery of the material actually taught. 

 

Recently our local high school made a big deal about how many students had a high GPA and was congratulating teachers and students.  I was so baffled by this because grades really don't mean anything on their own.  

[SamanthaCarter]

College too. A 4.0 In undergrad and grad for accounting didn’t make me a great auditor. [emoji53] did petty well as a financial analyst doing SEC and other filings though.

 

 

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[fralala]

I would question the assumption that those with the best grades are the most diligent people, the ones willing to work the hardest. (This comes up in the video when they're talking about grades vs. SAT scores.) I agree that they are often the least likely to take risks. 

 

Sometimes middling grades are a sign of one's willingness to do more challenging coursework. To persevere even after one has fulfilled basic requirements, out of curiosity or interest or love of a challenge. To bypass the science classes designed for non-majors in favor of the hard stuff. To pursue a foreign language to its grammatical outer limits. To struggle through a close reading of a difficult text rather than spending your time Googling summaries and Cliff notes.

 

I think getting a few bad grades early on can be liberating. Some of the most successful people I know were made to feel kind of dumb in the early years. That gave them the freedom to experiment and take risks without worrying that they were going to expose themselves as Not As Smart As Everyone Thought. Some As just mean "Already knew that."

 

[Tanaqui]

I encounter this all the time in my college classes. When I hear the "but in high school..." phrase, I'm prepared for them basically asking for a concession that I cannot grant.

 

Lawsuits against professors who make special cases for individual students are not uncommon in my area, but apparently some high schools do that without worrying about the ramifications.

 

You know what's really awful? At least half the time, I didn't ask. They told ME to bring in my late work "even though it's past the due date" or that I could "just do some extra credit" (which they'd previously said nobody could do)... and then when I failed to do that as well (or did only a little bit... there were more issues going on here that should've been formally accommodated but weren't) they just... passed me ahead anyway. But with a lecture, you know, because that makes things better.

[hepatica]

High grades aren't always a reflection of hard work or intelligence. Dyslexic kids frequently work much harder for their Bs than "top" students work for their perfect grades. Dyslexic kids are often super intelligent and do great things (like MacArthur Genius awards) without ever being superstar students with perfect SAT scores.

[LuvToRead]

You know what's really awful? At least half the time, I didn't ask. They told ME to bring in my late work "even though it's past the due date" or that I could "just do some extra credit" (which they'd previously said nobody could do)... and then when I failed to do that as well (or did only a little bit... there were more issues going on here that should've been formally accommodated but weren't) they just... passed me ahead anyway. But with a lecture, you know, because that makes things better.

 

or in some cases buy extra credit.  My DD15 has a friend who mentioned a recent canned food drive where she was given extra for donating.  The food drive was not during school hours, so only the kids who could buy canned goods and had a parent willing to take them where able to receive the extra credit.  Also, recently I was reading a teacher blog who said she gave extra credit to students for bringing in classroom supplies.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah perfect grades aren't enough.  I guess one needs to be superhuman.

 

I dunno...stuff like this just gets to me.  I didn't read it, but it's a lot of pressure to try and be so darn perfect.  Kinda rubs me the wrong way really.

 

 

[hepatica]

Yeah perfect grades aren't enough.  I guess one needs to be superhuman.

 

I dunno...stuff like this just gets to me.  I didn't read it, but it's a lot of pressure to try and be so darn perfect.  Kinda rubs me the wrong way really.

 

I totally get this. Part of me is happy to see something like food for the hungry come out of all this grade craziness.

[Kassia]

or in some cases buy extra credit.  My DD15 has a friend who mentioned a recent canned food drive where she was given extra for donating.  The food drive was not during school hours, so only the kids who could buy canned goods and had a parent willing to take them where able to receive the extra credit.  Also, recently I was reading a teacher blog who said she gave extra credit to students for bringing in classroom supplies.  

 

We experienced this a lot when my older kids were in ps.  Some teachers needed classroom supplies, others would want participants at events such as attending athletic games that weren't well-attended.  

[Storygirl]

I would question the assumption that those with the best grades are the most diligent people, the ones willing to work the hardest. (This comes up in the video when they're talking about grades vs. SAT scores.) I agree that they are often the least likely to take risks. 

 

Sometimes middling grades are a sign of one's willingness to do more challenging coursework. To persevere even after one has fulfilled basic requirements, out of curiosity or interest or love of a challenge. To bypass the science classes designed for non-majors in favor of the hard stuff. To pursue a foreign language to its grammatical outer limits. To struggle through a close reading of a difficult text rather than spending your time Googling summaries and Cliff notes.

 

I think getting a few bad grades early on can be liberating. Some of the most successful people I know were made to feel kind of dumb in the early years. That gave them the freedom to experiment and take risks without worrying that they were going to expose themselves as Not As Smart As Everyone Thought. Some As just mean "Already knew that."

 

I agree with the statement I changed to bold. I was an excellent student in high school and college. In college, I got a B my first semester in one class and all A's after that until graduation. I was pleased with my final GPA, which I worked hard for. My senior year, I had a roommate who had a 4.0 going into her senior year. She was absolutely terrified of getting any B's and spent that year extremely stressed and relied on tons of caffeine (NoDoz pills) to fuel her studying. She was a wreck. In contrast, the pressure was off of me to get a 4.0, because of that first semester B.

 

No one in the twenty years since graduation has ever asked me what my college GPA was, by the way. And I'm sure no one has asked my roommate. Was all that stress worth it for a few decimal points on her GPA?

[eternalsummer]

In a good school system, good grades are reflective of the ability, through whatever means, to complete the requirements of the course to excellence.  Generally this takes a combination of work and intelligence - a more intelligent person may not have to work as hard, while a hard worker can cover for some deficit of intelligence.  Various disabilities require either accommodation or harder work to compensate for the disability (in order to still complete the requirements of the course).

 

In a bad school system, it all goes haywire.  But in a good one, grades can be reflective of achievement and indicators of knowledge/skills gained.

[Bootsie]

or in some cases buy extra credit.  My DD15 has a friend who mentioned a recent canned food drive where she was given extra for donating.  The food drive was not during school hours, so only the kids who could buy canned goods and had a parent willing to take them where able to receive the extra credit.  Also, recently I was reading a teacher blog who said she gave extra credit to students for bringing in classroom supplies.  

I had a friend who was so proud of her daughters 115 average in math--she had lots of extra credit for taking white board markers and not using her bathroom pass; it was math and she didn't understand what 100% meant, but that wasn't really relevant...

[Bootsie]

 

 

Lawsuits against professors who make special cases for individual students are not uncommon in my area, but apparently some high schools do that without worrying about the ramifications.

This really struck me--Is it because everyone is getting an exception for everything in high school????

[Bootsie]

Recently our local high school made a big deal about how many students had a high GPA and was congratulating teachers and students.  I was so baffled by this because grades really don't mean anything on their own.  

There was a push coming out of the Texas governor's office to tie college professor's salaries to the students' grades.  The reaoning was in the business world if you create a better product, you get paid more.  So, if a professor creates a better product (a student with an A) the professor should be paid more. 

[luuknam]

There was a push coming out of the Texas governor's office to tie college professor's salaries to the students' grades.  The reaoning was in the business world if you create a better product, you get paid more.  So, if a professor creates a better product (a student with an A) the professor should be paid more. 

 

 

That might work if you use an outside testing agency... otherwise you're just asking for grade inflation.

 

(and I haven't heard of using an outside testing agency in college)

Edited December 2, 2017 by luuknam

[eternalsummer]

This really struck me--Is it because everyone is getting an exception for everything in high school????

 

When I was in high school 15-20 years ago I was granted a significant exception.  Weighted grades were tied to community service hours - you had to turn in I think 5 hours of community service per semester (documented) for each weighted course in order to receive the weight.  I was a diligent and determined student, in the top 1% of my class of 600+, a NM scholar and an IB Diploma candidate.  I was not, however, very organized.  One semester (1st semester senior year) I just completely forgot to turn in the community service card.  I freaked out.  I mean freaked out.  That meant that instead of getting all As that semester I was getting all Bs (the weight was a whole point, and an A was 5.0).  I would have lost probably 5-10 class ranks, at least.  It would have been a complete disaster.  I called my guidance counselor and said, oh my god, I completely forgot to turn this in, is there anything I can do?  I don't know what I was hoping for - a dispensation to turn it in late, partial weight, something, anything.  Well, they had me meet with the principal, who was very stern but admitted that it wasn't just me - another IB Diploma candidate, who was I think 10th in the class or so, had also forgotten to turn his in.  So they just gave us the weight and let it go. 

 

At the time I thought I'd gotten away with some miracle.  In retrospect I wonder if they thought my parents would make a fuss (they would not have -they had no idea what my grades were and didn't care) or if maybe the other kid's parents made a fuss.  Or maybe they just realized, hey, they've worked really hard for 3.5 years to get these grades, are some of the best students we have at the school; how are we going to deny them the recognition/awards for those accomplishments because they forgot to turn in one piece of paper that has, to be honest, nothing to do with academics?  

 

At any rate, it worked out.  I almost forgot the next semester, but they had a table at the checkout line where you turned in your books and picked up your cap and gown and I realized I had not filled out the card and had about 20 minutes to figure it out while everyone else went through the line.  that was fun.

[Reefgazer]

You would think nearly everyone would see the flaws in this line of thought, but I know from my own experience that they do not.

There was a push coming out of the Texas governor's office to tie college professor's salaries to the students' grades.  The reaoning was in the business world if you create a better product, you get paid more.  So, if a professor creates a better product (a student with an A) the professor should be paid more. 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I agree with the statement I changed to bold. I was an excellent student in high school and college. In college, I got a B my first semester in one class and all A's after that until graduation. I was pleased with my final GPA, which I worked hard for. My senior year, I had a roommate who had a 4.0 going into her senior year. She was absolutely terrified of getting any B's and spent that year extremely stressed and relied on tons of caffeine (NoDoz pills) to fuel her studying. She was a wreck. In contrast, the pressure was off of me to get a 4.0, because of that first semester B.

 

No one in the twenty years since graduation has ever asked me what my college GPA was, by the way. And I'm sure no one has asked my roommate. Was all that stress worth it for a few decimal points on her GPA?

Not saying anything negative about you at all but about grade perception in general...

 

The quote you are responding to and bolded in your post (I don't know how to get that to show up here) was about how getting a few bad grades could be liberating.  A B is not a bad grade. A D or an F is a bad grade. 

 

As an ex-college prof. I cannot ell you how many conversations I had attempting to explain that a B is okay. It's an indicator of better than average knowledge of the material.

[G5052]

This really struck me--Is it because everyone is getting an exception for everything in high school????

 

I know there's more exceptions locally than I experienced in high school. They were really strict at my high school, and then the college I went to was even more strict. In college I took an exam just hours after I found out that a close family member died, and I remember going to exams really, really sick. Basically they didn't do make-ups unless you were in the hospital.

 

Yesterday I had someone coming to give an estimate for a project outside, and she filled my ears about how her kids who graduated from the local high school weren't ready for the community college because they weren't used to essay questions, hard deadlines, and not having retakes on exams.

[Storygirl]

Not saying anything negative about you at all but about grade perception in general...

 

The quote you are responding to and bolded in your post (I don't know how to get that to show up here) was about how getting a few bad grades could be liberating.  A B is not a bad grade. A D or an F is a bad grade. 

 

As an ex-college prof. I cannot ell you how many conversations I had attempting to explain that a B is okay. It's an indicator of better than average knowledge of the material.

 

I agree with that. My post wasn't really about my B grade. It was about my roommate's stress over keeping her 4.0.