Family Size

[Crimson Wife]

   I did wistfully think that twins would have been the perfect solution to my problem but you can't plan that!

 

The thought of twins (or higher!) terrifies me. And they do say that older moms have a higher rate of multiples even without fertility treatments. I know TWO moms who were trying for "one last baby" but wound up naturally conceiving triplets :svengo:

[Guest]

I think our culture is so focused on avoiding unwanted pregnancies, which is a good thing, that we forget to point out that fertility is limited for everyone, and more so for a percentage of the population who doesn't know they have underlying fertility issues they won't be aware of until they start trying to have a baby. When people face infertility issues they seem to be so shocked it's happening to them. I think emphasizing both is important.

 

I'm so so so glad we started when I was 20 and husband was 26. If we had waited later the natural decrease in fertility added to the challenges we already had would've likely meant not being able to have kid 3 and possibly kid 2 in our situation. Whew! I feel like we dodged a bullet by focusing on having children during my peak childbearing years. 12 years to get 3 kids during peak fertility years ( I've had both fertility issues and secondary fertility issues then) would've been exacerbated by waiting until I was older. That doesn't mean I advocate having babies in unstable situations, but humble beginnings are perfectly valid.

 

And adoption is harder now than it was. Fewer international options exist aren't good fits for everyone. Fostadopt can be a real challenge and isn't a good fir for everyone. Children available for private adoption at birth aren't for everyone and are far fewer with single parenthood, the widespread use of contraception, and abortion as options. I'm always surprised at how the typical person thinks there are reserves of kids available for adoption any time someone wants.

 

I agree that these are potentially drawbacks; certainly many people do delay having babies, unaware that it isn’t always a magical moment where you decide one day and then automatically have a baby in 9 months.

 

However, I’m also thinking the population on the whole is moving in the direction of small families and even childless by choice and preference. I think the thought that all adults should be parents is losing popularity.

[KungFuPanda]

I have two kids that I had in my twenties. Since I have a kid in college right now I’m going to recuse myself from giving advice on the number anyone should have. Paying for college makes people cranky and synical.

 

Health-wise, I felt and looked young until I hit 45. That’s when I started to ‘feel’ like I’d entered middle age. That’s when I found I needed more rest, a slower pace, and was happy to just sit at home most evenings. I was super high energy in my youth and never understood how people could just sit all the time. I id had a kid at 40 I would have been fine energy wise. The thought of keeping up with a 5-year-old at 45 sounds exhausting. At this point I’m happy to wait for my daughter’s turn to parent. I can be super active if it’s not an everyday thing :-)

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree that these are potentially drawbacks; certainly many people do delay having babies, unaware that it isn’t always a magical moment where you decide one day and then automatically have a baby in 9 months.

 

However, I’m also thinking the population on the whole is moving in the direction of small families and even childless by choice and preference. I think the thought that all adults should be parents is losing popularity.

Yes, society is scaling down in all aspects of life, including family size and we've finally started recognizing that parenting isn't for everyone and that's perfectly fine. 

 

It's the people who are planning on parenting at some point who need a reality check. I hear people planning out their futures with wild optimism and they don't realize how wildly optimistic they are.  "I'm going to finish college, establish my career, get married, then at 35 I'm going to have 2 kids, 3 years apart, work part time while they're in daycare and preschool, then go back to work full time when the youngest starts all-day kindergarten." That kind of thinking.  Or, "I'm going to have 3 kids by 35 and if I can't biologically then I can always privately adopt the newborn [of a birthmom I don't personally know.]" with no grasp of the range of possible primary and secondary fertility issues, the cost in time and money in diagnosing and treating them, the emotional and physical recovery time from dealing with them, the cost of various forms of adoption, the time investment each adoption option costs, age limits in adoption options, and the time investment in negotiating with a spouse all of that.  And those don't even factor in general economic issues that change over time. 

 

[LMD]

It's the people who are planning on parenting at some point who need a reality check. I hear people planning out their futures with wild optimism and they don't realize how wildly optimistic they are. "

I agree with this. I've seen people encouraging young women that they have plenty of time and to wait until 35! I thought that was very dangerous advice, especially since I happened to know that infertility ran in this young woman's family!

I never expected to miscarry in my second trimester twice, once at 19 and once at 27, and require fertility specialists to fall pregnant during my 20s. My sister never expected to have cancer at 29 and have chemo wreck her fertility.

 

The focus was always on preventing a pregnancy and I think we internalised the idea that if we stop preventing it WILL happen that ONE time.

 

As I said earlier, we have much less control than we like to think.

[tdbates78]

I have two daughters, twins. We were married for 9 years before deciding we wanted just one. So of course I conceive twins! :) I was 30 when they were born. It's been an amazing journey that I wouldn't change for anything, but as soon as I found out it was twins I knew we were done. Financially we are in a comfortable place to provide activities and nice vacations and they have sizeable 529s which is important to us. We also like doing things (hiking, day trips, weekend getaways, festivals etc) and I would be frazzled with any more than my two to keep up with. Truth be told, I'm not the most patient person. My girls are very energetic, always have been. I know that I personally couldn't handle any more. I think I'm way too type-A :p

 

I also had hyperemesis while pregnant and it was the most awful experience of my life. I absolutely fear going through that again. I couldn't handle it.

Edited October 28, 2017 by tdbates78

[maize]

The thought of twins (or higher!) terrifies me. And they do say that older moms have a higher rate of multiples even without fertility treatments. I know TWO moms who were trying for "one last baby" but wound up naturally conceiving triplets :svengo:

So I'm one who always thinks multiples sound romantic--until I actually consider the logistics!

 

If I had the ability to plan such things I would probably plan right now to finish off my family with triplets, three or four years from now. Perfectly healthy, uncomplicated pregnancy of course and the babies would be carried to full term and have no complications themselves. I would at that point have received an unexpected inheritance from a mysterious uncle so would be able to hire plenty of help.

 

😄

Edited October 28, 2017 by maize

[kiwik]

I have two, and would have liked more. But biology was against me. I had my first at 41, my 2nd at 42 (almost 43). And then poof! early menopause. I probably wouldn't have tried for another at 44, though I have known loads of women who had large families and had kids in their mid to late 40s.

I had mine at 38 and 40. I think I could have had another at 42 but menopause started at about 44 and I had my ovaries removed at 45. I was surprised it was so early but then I never used the pill and wasn't pregnant so I guess I used heaps of eggs up.

[kiwik]

Yes, society is scaling down in all aspects of life, including family size and we've finally started recognizing that parenting isn't for everyone and that's perfectly fine.

 

It's the people who are planning on parenting at some point who need a reality check. I hear people planning out their futures with wild optimism and they don't realize how wildly optimistic they are. "I'm going to finish college, establish my career, get married, then at 35 I'm going to have 2 kids, 3 years apart, work part time while they're in daycare and preschool, then go back to work full time when the youngest starts all-day kindergarten." That kind of thinking. Or, "I'm going to have 3 kids by 35 and if I can't biologically then I can always privately adopt the newborn [of a birthmom I don't personally know.]" with no grasp of the range of possible primary and secondary fertility issues, the cost in time and money in diagnosing and treating them, the emotional and physical recovery time from dealing with them, the cost of various forms of adoption, the time investment each adoption option costs, age limits in adoption options, and the time investment in negotiating with a spouse all of that. And those don't even factor in general economic issues that change over time.

And I know a lot of women who only have one child, not because they only wanted one but because their marriage ended.

[marbel]

<snip>

 

As I said earlier, we have much less control than we like to think.

 

Agreed.  I think this is true in a lot of areas of life, not just having kids.

 

Think of people who plan out their career perfectly in college but then find that there aren't good jobs available.  Or some physical issue keeps them from doing what they'd planned. I knew a man who had planned a very specific military career, only to find that he developed some knee issues at a young age which kept him out of it.  He had to scramble to regroup, and the disappointment was great. 

 

Or people who have high expectations for their kids, but discover an LD or some health issue that stops or slows them down.  The couple that works hard all their live in anticipation of a beautiful retirement only to have a financial crisis at the 11th hour ruin their plans.  Or a diagnosis...

 

Don't mean to derail the thread.  But planning life to the last detail can cause a lot of disappointment.  Plans need to be held loosely.

 

BTW I had my kids late in life but it wasn't due to planning.  Just worked out that way... :-) I don't recommend my method (marry at 39, kids at 41 and 42 as a strategy.  LOL.  :-)

[Zinnia]

I wanted babies young (my mom had us at 22 and 23; I liked that). I started looking for a husband around 15...got married at 26. After many years of trying, I had my first at 31, 4th at 37.

 

I still get comments like, "I hope your daughter can have kids young. it's so great." Well, sure. If it works out that way. But there are so many variables that it is hard for it to work out that way.

[mommyoffive]

I have two daughters, twins. We were married for 9 years before deciding we wanted just one. So of course I conceive twins! :) I was 30 when they were born. It's been an amazing journey that I wouldn't change for anything, but as soon as I found out it was twins I knew we were done. Financially we are in a comfortable place to provide activities and nice vacations and they have sizeable 529s which is important to us. We also like doing things (hiking, day trips, weekend getaways, festivals etc) and I would be frazzled with any more than my two to keep up with. Truth be told, I'm not the most patient person. My girls are very energetic, always have been. I know that I personally couldn't handle any more. I think I'm way too type-A :p

 

I also had hyperemesis while pregnant and it was the most awful experience of my life. I absolutely fear going through that again. I couldn't handle it.

 

I had hyperemesis with each pg too.   The worst part of my life.   If I didn't have that I would have had a lot more, but it is always a huge consideration when I think of getting pg.  

[IsabelC]

We have three kids and we're done. We were always going to have three, because I wanted 3 or 4 while my partner wanted 2 or 3 (and yes, we agreed on this before we even got married). 

I wanted to have the first one before age 30 and the last one before 35, and that's what happened. However I don't view that age as some kind of magical cutoff. Every woman is different, and one woman can have a safer, healthier pregnancy at 40 than another woman at 30. I think the number and timing of children is a personal decision to be made by each woman, in consultation with her spouse/partner (and her health professionals if applicable).

Edited October 31, 2017 by IsabelC

[Carrie12345]

I noticed a few of you mentioned you had wished you had started sooner. Me too. I don't think I'll ever give anyone the advice to wait. ir any reproductive advice that matter.

 

I was pregnant with my first when I was 20 and unmarried, so I can't say the same.  ;)

 

I can confidently say that I don't regret having a baby that early, but I definitely do feel guilty that he's nearly launched and watching his siblings enjoy a childhood that I wasn't able to give him.  The next two are old enough that they vaguely remember the leaner times, and swing back and forth between asking for the world and not telling me that they need new shoes.  And the youngest two take their cues from them.

 

Of course there are plenty of pros to that con, but that one con is emotionally heavy for me.

[Guest]

I agree with this unless you have tons of money.

 

 

But I think there are pros and cons to both sides. Things are harder, more expensive so you cut those out.

But having a lot of siblings is a gift in itself. Some things they miss out on, but they get other things too.

Not to be the party-pooper, but siblings are not always a wonderful gift. Some siblings cannot get along; some distance themselves geographically or psychologically. Some siblings choose very different life paths and it’s hard to relate. And aometimes, siblings directly make a huge negative impact on a child.

 

I think it is telling when adults who grew up in large families only choose to have small ones or no kids themselves.

[EmseB]

I think it is telling when adults who grew up in large families only choose to have small ones or no kids themselves.

I really don't think it tells much, tbh. Adult kids make all kinds of choices that reflect on them as people and not necessarily how good or bad their parents did with a certain kind of environment. It's too hard to tell, I think. I mean, someone from a large family may choose a small family for a ton of reasons. Just like me choosing to have 4 kids isn't an indictment on my parents having only 2.

 

IOW, if my kids choose to have more, less or no kids, I'm really going to try to not take it as a personal rejection of their lives growing up. I guess it would be interesting to know that people looking in would be saying, "See, he grew up in a big family and now he doesn't want one, very telling."

 

No one, but no one, in my family expected me to join the military. I'm sure from the outside it looked as though I was reacting to some part of my upbringing. I wasn't, at least not in an acute sense. But I'm sure my parents took it pretty hard.

[Guest]

I really don't think it tells much, tbh. Adult kids make all kinds of choices that reflect on them as people and not necessarily how good or bad their parents did with a certain kind of environment. It's too hard to tell, I think. I mean, someone from a large family may choose a small family for a ton of reasons. Just like me choosing to have 4 kids isn't an indictment on my parents having only 2.

 

IOW, if my kids choose to have more, less or no kids, I'm really going to try to not take it as a personal rejection of their lives growing up. I guess it would be interesting to know that people looking in would be saying, "See, he grew up in a big family and now he doesn't want one, very telling."

 

No one, but no one, in my family expected me to join the military. I'm sure from the outside it looked as though I was reacting to some part of my upbringing. I wasn't, at least not in an acute sense. But I'm sure my parents took it pretty hard.

But I’m not talking merely about outside assumptions. I’m talking about people who have specifically said so.

 

Like, if someone said to you, “It’s interesting you have nothing to do with military life, Emse.†And you said, “well, I vowed I would never have a part of that because being raised a military brat was so lonely and horrible for me. I never had a lasting friend. I never knew when my father would be around; in fact, he was like a stranger to me when he did come home. My uncle went missing and we never knew what happened to him over there. Nope. I reject military life.†Obviously then, it *would* clearly be a direct connection to your own upbringing.

 

I grew up one of five and dh, one of six. Potential drawbacks of a big family are not theoretical to me. Yes, there can be nice, warm memories, too; some families clearly have more of those than others no matter how big or small they may be. And it is not all bad things, my experience and dh’s. I’m just responding to mommyoffive’s assertion that siblings are “a gift.†Sometimes, yeah. But othertimes, no.

[FaithManor]

Not to be the party-pooper, but siblings are not always a wonderful gift. Some siblings cannot get along; some distance themselves geographically or psychologically. Some siblings choose very different life paths and it’s hard to relate. And aometimes, siblings directly make a huge negative impact on a child.

 

I think it is telling when adults who grew up in large families only choose to have small ones or no kids themselves.

True.

 

My brother married a horrible human so we can have no real relationship. My sister lives in France. I alone care for our mother and have ALL the responsibility, yet they expect to have a say. It would be a lot easier without them.

 

Dh's sibs were abusive to him, and his contact in adult life is a twice per year five minute phone call with his brother and once per year with sister. He also has sole responsibility for his mom. He would happily enjoy being an only child.

 

I know a handful, as in can count on one hand, of families where the siblings are close and blessings to each other. I know a ton for which one sibling has all the responsibility while the others are narcissists who make them miserable or married such people, like my brother.

 

With our increasingly globally structured economy, jobs hither and yon, the chances of adult siblings having close relationships and spending time together are so much lower.

[ktgrok]

I was pregnant with my first when I was 20 and unmarried, so I can't say the same.  ;)

 

I can confidently say that I don't regret having a baby that early, but I definitely do feel guilty that he's nearly launched and watching his siblings enjoy a childhood that I wasn't able to give him. 

 

 

Same....there is a good dose of constant mom guilt there, that they get so much more time, attention, things than he did. I was working 12 hour days when he was a toddler, while his neglectful father ignored him at home. Then a divorced mom working part time and then full time..although at that point we lived with my parents so they took up a lot of the slack. But still...I wish I'd have more of myself to give to him. and now with so many younger siblings he still gets the short end of the stick, although partly/mostly because he wants it that way....he's like me at that age and wants lots of private time, not to hang out with mom. 

SaveSave

[EmseB]

But I’m not talking merely about outside assumptions. I’m talking about people who have specifically said so.

 

Like, if someone said to you, “It’s interesting you have nothing to do with military life, Emse.†And you said, “well, I vowed I would never have a part of that because being raised a military brat was so lonely and horrible for me. I never had a lasting friend. I never knew when my father would be around; in fact, he was like a stranger to me when he did come home. My uncle went missing and we never knew what happened to him over there. Nope. I reject military life.†Obviously then, it *would* clearly be a direct connection to your own upbringing.

 

I grew up one of five and dh, one of six. Potential drawbacks of a big family are not theoretical to me. Yes, there can be nice, warm memories, too; some families clearly have more of those than others no matter how big or small they may be. And it is not all bad things, my experience and dh’s. I’m just responding to mommyoffive’s assertion that siblings are “a gift.†Sometimes, yeah. But othertimes, no.

 

Sorry, the way I read it made me think it was your own observation, not that someone was directly telling you something about their upbringing. I think I also read in some aspect of blame on the parents of said large family that maybe wasn't there. I'm not sure. You said it was "telling" and I guess I took that to have a negative connotation, but thinking on it I don't know what you thought it was "telling" of. I kind of latched on to that word and ran with it, lol.

But the deal for me is that the potential drawbacks of only having one sibling are not theoretical to me.  The point is that my parents (like all parents) had some hard choices to make about having more kids or not and those choices were really none of my business despite how I perceived that they impacted me, nor are those choices bad because I say I would rather have more than two kids because of what I felt like I wanted or lacked when I was growing up.  Of course sometimes siblings are a gift and other times they are difficult to live with.  But I hesitate to turn the tone that someone making different family choices than their family of origin is "telling". If that makes sense. I hesitate to say any adult's choices tell the reality of what life was like for them growing up or their parents' choices, even if they say it was because of  xyz. I mean, one of my kids is sensitive to lots of noise and I wouldn't be surprised if he said, "I'm never having a big family because I can't handle all the racket." I don't think that means I should have had less kids, you know?

 

People (particularly young adults, but some older) say stuff like that all the time.  "I would never do that to my own kids."  "I'm never going to do this because I hated it growing up." Whereas people from the exact same family will do the opposite. Or even if the parents made some choice like having another baby or homeschooling or moving every two years and the kids want to do something different than that, I don't think it's "telling" about anything more than the parents had to make a choice or choices about their family life and did what they thought was best.

 

Also, no one would look at my mom with her two kids and then look at my choice to have four kids and say, "I think that's telling."  No, that kind of judgment is saved for parents (mostly mothers) that have large families.

 

Note, I'm not talking about egregious abuse or something along those lines.  I'm talking about deciding not to do X family lifestyle because one didn't like it when they were growing up. That can come from a whole host of factors, most of which, I think, have to do with the individual's personality and their own wants and needs after they are grown.

[EmseB]

Like, if someone said to you, “It’s interesting you have nothing to do with military life, Emse.†And you said, “well, I vowed I would never have a part of that because being raised a military brat was so lonely and horrible for me. I never had a lasting friend. I never knew when my father would be around; in fact, he was like a stranger to me when he did come home. My uncle went missing and we never knew what happened to him over there. Nope. I reject military life.†Obviously then, it *would* clearly be a direct connection to your own upbringing.

 

 

I also wanted to say to this, that it is a huge concern of mine for my kids. However, we have also been able to have some very rich experiences with our kids because of military life that they otherwise would not have had.

 

So if someone said this to me, I would see it as a very sad thing and of course it has a direct connection to their upbringing. But I would also know that because someone is bitter about military life/being homeschooled/having one sibling/having a lot of siblings does not tell the whole story of what happened growing up and what hard choices their parents had to make knowing how it affected the kids. Maybe another sibling in the family says, "Yes, I'm going to West Point because I loved the military, and we go to travel across the country every year, and I got to live in Germany, and yeah, it was hard, but I really have an affection for it."

 

I think there are certain situations where kids grow up and you see that none of them will speak to their parents and fight with each other and you can see that there was some kind of dysfunctional dynamic going on.  But I don't think that applies to a simple rejection of some kind of lifestyle or aspect thereof they had growing up. I don't think it says much about how conscientious or not their parents were about their choices.

[SKL]

My oldest brother used to say he wasn't going to have kids because he was tired of living in a house full of (6) kids.

 

I believe he was 22 when he married a woman with 3 kids, then went on to have a bio kid with his wife.  Soon thereafter his stepdaughters started having kids out of wedlock, then got married but later divorced and came back home with still more kids.  His house has always been full of kids, and he actually doesn't seem to mind it.  :p

 

Whether my family is an exception or not, siblings have been a blessing for us.  My dearest hope for the future is that my kids will remain friends for life.

Edited October 31, 2017 by SKL

[Crimson Wife]

I really don't think it tells much, tbh. Adult kids make all kinds of choices that reflect on them as people and not necessarily how good or bad their parents did with a certain kind of environment. It's too hard to tell, I think. I mean, someone from a large family may choose a small family for a ton of reasons. Just like me choosing to have 4 kids isn't an indictment on my parents having only 2.

 

I think the most common reason for having fewer children than one's parents these days is financial rather than disliking large families. The cost of living is so much higher than when we were growing up. :(

 

[maize]

I think it is telling when adults who grew up in large families only choose to have small ones or no kids themselves.

Only if they tell you that is the reason!

 

"It is telling" suggests you can make assumptions from the circumstance itself. The fact of a person growing up in a large family and then having few or no children doesn't actually tell you anything at all about their perspective on their own childhood. Neither does the fact that a person grew up in a small family and had many children!

 

Oh, and is it somehow "telling" (a term that is most often used to highlight something negative) that I grew up in a large family and went on to have a large family?

 

Generalizations and presumptions are wrong more often than right when it comes to human lives. Of course there can be positives and negatives to large families, just as there can be to just about any other circumstance.

 

Happens I'm fortunate in having nine of the most amazing people in the world as siblings; we had our squabbles as kids and as adults we have a wide variety of opinions and experiences and affiliations and goals (oh, and number of children or lack thereof!), but they are the best support network anyone could imagine. I can't express how grateful I am to have them in my life.

 

And the fact the none of us is likely to have ten children of our own is "telling" of nothing at all except maybe that we are ourselves and not our parents (who also make the cut of my absolute favorite people in the world) ;)

Edited October 31, 2017 by maize

[maize]

I agree with this unless you have tons of money.

 

 

But I think there are pros and cons to both sides. Things are harder, more expensive so you cut those out.

But having a lot of siblings is a gift in itself. Some things they miss out on, but they get other things too.

Yep.

 

No way do I wish I could have traded in a sibling or two for nicer things or opportunities.

[mommyoffive]

Not to be the party-pooper, but siblings are not always a wonderful gift. Some siblings cannot get along; some distance themselves geographically or psychologically. Some siblings choose very different life paths and it’s hard to relate. And aometimes, siblings directly make a huge negative impact on a child.

 

I think it is telling when adults who grew up in large families only choose to have small ones or no kids themselves.

 

Sing it sister.  I know that for sure.  

 

I wish I had more siblings. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

True.

 

My brother married a horrible human so we can have no real relationship. My sister lives in France. I alone care for our mother and have ALL the responsibility, yet they expect to have a say. It would be a lot easier without them.

 

Dh's sibs were abusive to him, and his contact in adult life is a twice per year five minute phone call with his brother and once per year with sister. He also has sole responsibility for his mom. He would happily enjoy being an only child.

 

I know a handful, as in can count on one hand, of families where the siblings are close and blessings to each other. I know a ton for which one sibling has all the responsibility while the others are narcissists who make them miserable or married such people, like my brother.

 

With our increasingly globally structured economy, jobs hither and yon, the chances of adult siblings having close relationships and spending time together are so much lower.

 

I agree with that so much. 

[maize]

I think that some of the lack of negatives in my sibling relationships actually comes from the fact the we don't live in each other's back pockets. We are scattered over the globe.

 

This doesn't prevent us from having close relationships. We have phones, chat apps, video calls (most recently a group Google hangout call to draw Christmas exchange names), a private family Facebook group, and biannual family reunions to keep us in touch.

[Guest]

Only if they tell you that is the reason!

 

"It is telling" suggests you can make assumptions from the circumstance itself. The fact of a person growing up in a large family and then having few or no children doesn't actually tell you anything at all about their perspective on their own childhood. Neither does the fact that a person grew up in a small family and had many children!

 

Oh, and is it somehow "telling" (a term that is most often used to highlight something negative) that I grew up in a large family and went on to have a large family?

 

Generalizations and presumptions are wrong more often than right when it comes to human lives. Of course there can be positives and negatives to large families, just as there can be to just about any other circumstance.

 

Happens I'm fortunate in having nine of the most amazing people in the world as siblings; we had our squabbles as kids and as adults we have a wide variety of opinions and experiences and affiliations and goals (oh, and number of children or lack thereof!), but they are the best support network anyone could imagine. I can't express how grateful I am to have them in my life.

 

And the fact the none of us is likely to have ten children of our own is "telling" of nothing at all except maybe that we are ourselves and not our parents (who also make the cut of my absolute favorite people in the world) ;)

Alright, then I guess I should have said, “From what I have experienced and from what some adults who grew up in large families have said to me, I have found some people who grew up in large families say No to that.†My point was, neither are lots of siblings automatically “a gift.†Sometimes, it is a gift you can’t return, no matter how badly it fits.

[Southern Ivy]

We have 1 - age 5. 

We would love more, but that isn't proving to be as easy as the first one. 

I'm 36. We had planned on having our other kid(s) by now, so I honestly don't know what our cut off is yet, but we should probably decide soon. 

[Guest]

I think that some of the lack of negatives in my sibling relationships actually comes from the fact the we don't live in each other's back pockets. We are scattered over the globe.

 

This doesn't prevent us from having close relationships. We have phones, chat apps, video calls (most recently a group Google hangout call to draw Christmas exchange names), a private family Facebook group, and biannual family reunions to keep us in touch.

If you have the relationship, it doesn’t matter how far apart you live. If you don’t, it doesn’t matter how geographically near you are.

[mommaduck]

The truth is, no matter what you do, you never know what you are going to get in ways of personality and issues when it comes to kids or siblings. At the same time, only child is not always "better", just different. There are pros and cons no matter what. Do what you feel led, prayers for everyone's journey, and hopes that everyone turns out well. 

[mommyoffive]

The truth is, no matter what you do, you never know what you are going to get in ways of personality and issues when it comes to kids or siblings. At the same time, only child is not always "better", just different. There are pros and cons no matter what. Do what you feel led, prayers for everyone's journey, and hopes that everyone turns out well. 

 

 

For everything!   So true

[mommyoffive]

Bingo. Overthinking it is silly - we don’t know the future and can’t control all the variables. Maybe the kids will be lonely as only children, maybe they’ll resent siblings. Maybe you’ll be a crap parent. Do your best and move on. Also? The choices of your children don’t necessarily reflect on your choices as a parent. I think sometimes we place a little too much blame on mommy and daddy when it’s really not warranted (toxic and abusive family excepted, obviously).

 

I really like that.  

 

 

I think too why a person might say they don't want big family when they came from one (as a woman especially) is because they saw how hard it was for their mom. 

 

[StaceyinLA]

I have 4 and mourned not having more for YEARS. (Had a tubal then a reversal, than 4 ectopic pregnancies, so I had a hysterectomy for my sanity). Praise the Lord I can look back and see how, in my situation, having a baby that was much younger than my others wouldn’t have allowed me to have the relationships I have with my adult children and grandchildren, but I sure wish I’d have had a couple more while my others were still young.

 

I LOVE bigger families. I have 5 siblings. For me, being able to pay for my childrens’ college education was really secondary to having a larger (though by no means large), close-knit family. The benefits to that are immeasurable. Even though my siblings and I don’t always get along perfectly, when we need to come together, we are ALL there for one another. I realize that isn’t the way it is with all families, but it’s also how my adult children are. They are all friends and hang out together a lot.

 

They all managed to go to college; they worked, and we helped. I’m just glad they have the siblings to lean on when there are crises in the future.

Edited October 31, 2017 by StaceyinLA

[EmseB]

Alright, then I guess I should have said, “From what I have experienced and from what some adults who grew up in large families have said to me, I have found some people who grew up in large families say No to that.†My point was, neither are lots of siblings automatically “a gift.†Sometimes, it is a gift you can’t return, no matter how badly it fits.

I understand bristling at someone saying that siblings are a gift if you have a difficult relationship with your siblings.

 

And, no, you can't take back a person, that is true.

 

But in the context of a family planning discussion there's really no way for someone to see the future to know that two people aren't going to get along. The only way to prevent the kind of thing you're talking about is for everyone to have only children. And I'm 99% positive you wouldn't say that. So it becomes difficult to tell was a solution would be. I mean, a big reason people have more than one kid is because they want their kids to have siblings. I hear you saying that maybe they shouldn't have more kids for that reason because the relationships between them could be bad?

[EmseB]

Do your best and move on. Also? The choices of your children don’t necessarily reflect on your choices as a parent.

Yes, and I think this can be true even if the child perceives and tells everyone that the reason they do or don't do x is because of their parents or family.

 

I had a lot of ideas in my early 20s about how I'd do things different because my mom or dad did x. Yeah, my ideas have changed now that I have my own kids, and I'm a little embarrassed about how smug I was about my parents' parenting.

[Guest]

I understand bristling at someone saying that siblings are a gift if you have a difficult relationship with your siblings.

 

And, no, you can't take back a person, that is true.

 

But in the context of a family planning discussion there's really no way for someone to see the future to know that two people aren't going to get along. The only way to prevent the kind of thing you're talking about is for everyone to have only children. And I'm 99% positive you wouldn't say that. So it becomes difficult to tell was a solution would be. I mean, a big reason people have more than one kid is because they want their kids to have siblings. I hear you saying that maybe they shouldn't have more kids for that reason because the relationships between them could be bad?

No, I am not saying that. The original post I was responding to was weighing a discussion about kids bringing financial realities with them and the poster, mommyoffive, was countering the discussion of the financial liabilities with basically, “yes, but siblings are a gift.â€

 

IMO, there has been a trend for a long time (maybe especially in homeschool communities) to sort of close one’s ears to warnings about the financial realities of children. Sometimes the meaningful considerations are snuffed out by minimizing those realities, or by saying God will provide, or by behaving as though concerns like college or extra curriculars are unimportant and that having a bunch of siblings magically makes up for those losses. Well, I can tell you, it doesn’t or, at least, it doesn’t always.

 

We were poor and it sucked. It was small comfort to say, “well, at least you have plenty of company!†There were a lot of times I just wanted to live in a not-falling-apart house with fewer siblings.

[SKL]

We were poor too, but I honestly never connected that with how many siblings I had (at least not until I was older). 

 

I vote that on balance, siblings are great.  But one doesn't need half a dozen siblings to experience the benefits.  :p  Although there are exceptions, I think it's more likely than not that if you have more than one child, your kids will benefit from having siblings - and you will too, as it makes some things easier once the kids are past the very high maintenance stage.

 

In short, I don't disagree with the siblings rationale for having more children.

 

And "siblings" is actually the reason I adopted 2 instead of 1; and it worked out better than I ever would have guessed.

Edited October 31, 2017 by SKL

[mommyoffive]

No, I am not saying that. The original post I was responding to was weighing a discussion about kids bringing financial realities with them and the poster, mommyoffive, was countering the discussion of the financial liabilities with basically, “yes, but siblings are a gift.â€

 

IMO, there has been a trend for a long time (maybe especially in homeschool communities) to sort of close one’s ears to warnings about the financial realities of children. Sometimes the meaningful considerations are snuffed out by minimizing those realities, or by saying God will provide, or by behaving as though concerns like college or extra curriculars are unimportant and that having a bunch of siblings magically makes up for those losses. Well, I can tell you, it doesn’t or, at least, it doesn’t always.

 

We were poor and it sucked. It was small comfort to say, “well, at least you have plenty of company!†There were a lot of times I just wanted to live in a not-falling-apart house with fewer siblings.

 

Just to be clear I am not one of those people at all.   I do not believe God will Provide and college and extra curriculars are not important.   To each their own.  If people believe that and they are happy, so be it.  But that isn't me.   I was more saying that yes there are pros and cons to both paths.  Pros to having a small family and being able to give them more money, experiences, trips or the like.  And pros to having a lot of kids too.  Even if the kids are not close as adults doesn't mean that it wasn't a gift during their childhood. 

 

We spend thousands on our kids for extra curr. each semester per kid ( I believe it is so important to give them experiences and options), they will all have the option of going to college, and we are giving them the chance to travel the country and world.   I think there is value in people who decide to have large families and then live simple lives to without spending lots on their kids.  I don't think that what we are doing is "the right way" or "the only way"  I think both have pros and cons.  I think both give the children wonderful life experiences that make them unique and isn't that the best thing about all of us?  Having different lives so that we all don't become the exact same person? 

 

It sounds like you took it a different way because of the way you grew up.  But not everyone with lots of siblings grows up poor.   

Edited October 31, 2017 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

We were poor too, but I honestly never connected that with how many siblings I had (at least not until I was older). 

 

I vote that on balance, siblings are great.  But one doesn't need half a dozen siblings to experience the benefits.  :p  Although there are exceptions, I think it's more likely than not that if you have more than one child, your kids will benefit from having siblings - and you will too, as it makes some things easier once the kids are past the very high maintenance stage.

 

In short, I don't disagree with the siblings rationale for having more children.

 

And "siblings" is actually the reason I adopted 2 instead of 1; and it worked out better than I ever would have guessed.

 

Me either.  I mean that might be a reason on the list, but is far down there.  And even if they wanted it, it would still have to be something that dh and I wanted.  In the end we are the ones that will be raising that kiddo. 

 

Each kiddo we had is because dh and I wanted another kid, not because we wanted to give the kids another sibling. 

[Bluegoat]

Alright, then I guess I should have said, “From what I have experienced and from what some adults who grew up in large families have said to me, I have found some people who grew up in large families say No to that.†My point was, neither are lots of siblings automatically “a gift.†Sometimes, it is a gift you can’t return, no matter how badly it fits.

 

I just don't think you can put much weight on that.  You also get people who are in small families, or only children who decide based on their experience that they want large families.

 

All it really says is that some people didn't enjoy being in  big family, or some don't enjoy being an only child.

[mommyoffive]

I just don't think you can put much weight on that.  You also get people who are in small families, or only children who decide based on their experience that they want large families.

 

All it really says is that some people didn't enjoy being in  big family, or some don't enjoy being an only child.

 

yes.  

 

I grew up with one sibling and because of that I wanted to have a big family.   What each of my children does later on will decide on what they want, the SO, money and health.   I won't take it all to be that they hated growing up the way they did.  I think think there are lots of factors going into how big of a family you have. 

[Crimson Wife]

 IMO, there has been a trend for a long time (maybe especially in homeschool communities) to sort of close one’s ears to warnings about the financial realities of children. Sometimes the meaningful considerations are snuffed out by minimizing those realities, or by saying God will provide, or by behaving as though concerns like college or extra curriculars are unimportant and that having a bunch of siblings magically makes up for those losses. Well, I can tell you, it doesn’t or, at least, it doesn’t always.

 

We were poor and it sucked. It was small comfort to say, “well, at least you have plenty of company!†There were a lot of times I just wanted to live in a not-falling-apart house with fewer siblings.

 

There is a HUGE difference IMHO between being poor and simply not being able to afford luxuries.

 

I don't think expensive extracurriculars or travel are particularly important and if giving those luxuries up means that we can have a medium family rather than a small one, that reflects my life priorities. Family over things.

 

I also don't think parents owe their adult offspring college assistance. It is a wonderful gift to help out (and we plan on doing so), but there are so many options for people to fund their own college. DH did, through working hard in school in order to win scholarships and serving in the Army.

 

[Guest]

There is a HUGE difference IMHO between being poor and simply not being able to afford luxuries.

 

I don't think expensive extracurriculars or travel are particularly important and if giving those luxuries up means that we can have a medium family rather than a small one, that reflects my life priorities. Family over things.

 

I also don't think parents owe their adult offspring college assistance. It is a wonderful gift to help out (and we plan on doing so), but there are so many options for people to fund their own college. DH did, through working hard in school in order to win scholarships and serving in the Army.

 

I agree with the bolded, BUT what I have seen much of (much, much, much of) is dismissing real concerns as though they are ALL luxuries. So, for example, once I was listening to a tape promoting large families (it was by a Catholic organization- and BTW, I agreed with it at that time) where the interviewer said she was told once that a person had decided to have a small family because they “wanted to do Disneyâ€. Of course, this was ridiculed; kids don’t need Disney, take them camping, blah, blah, blah. But to me this is making a false dichotomy of it. Not everyone who gives finances significant thought just wants “Disneyâ€. I concealed illness as a child because I knew my mother would worry about paying for doctors or medicine. In one case, I concealed a UTI until I had a severe kidney infection and had to go to the hospital.

 

Anyay...I’m just saying I have too often (like, waaaay) heard financial realities of many children dismissed as though if you can feed them gruel and sleep three on cots in the attic, it’s still good enough; at least they have each other! *rolleyes*. Sometimes, you don’t realize that each child comes with his or her own unique issues and have needs that are not hand-me-down-able.

 

Also- I know we have discussed the subject of financing college at length here, but, though I originally did not think it was necessary or important for parents to fund college, nor for most kids to go, I have done a 180 on that and no longer think this way. YMMV, of course.

[Guest]

We were poor too, but I honestly never connected that with how many siblings I had (at least not until I was older).

 

I vote that on balance, siblings are great. But one doesn't need half a dozen siblings to experience the benefits. :p Although there are exceptions, I think it's more likely than not that if you have more than one child, your kids will benefit from having siblings - and you will too, as it makes some things easier once the kids are past the very high maintenance stage.

 

In short, I don't disagree with the siblings rationale for having more children.

 

And "siblings" is actually the reason I adopted 2 instead of 1; and it worked out better than I ever would have guessed.

I think my mom unwittingly made that connection for me. She was always trying to sell me on the idea that I had all these siblings, isn’t it great??? But it seems so often like all I ever heard was, “we can’t afford that†and many times it was pointed out to me that so-and-so could afford that because they had only one child and/or both parents worked. Well, of course what calloused kid wants to admit they really just want mom to go the freak to work? Or that having one’s own bedroom actually sounds nice enough to wish there were fewer siblings, or we could afford a bigger house? I suffered a lot of shame as a kid, I think, because my needs were not always met; I didn’t want to be a bother to anyone. I was drowned out by more demanding siblings.

 

I’m not anti-sibling, nor anti-big family, but I think it has been oversold, especially in the Christian community.

[Carrie12345]

Alright, then I guess I should have said, “From what I have experienced and from what some adults who grew up in large families have said to me, I have found some people who grew up in large families say No to that.†My point was, neither are lots of siblings automatically “a gift.†Sometimes, it is a gift you can’t return, no matter how badly it fits.

 

My own kids go back and forth when talking about the future.  Sometimes they want a lot of kids, sometimes they want one or none.  (My oldest is the oldest of 8, all together. The rest are one of five.)

 

My 15yo keeps suggesting we do foster care... after she's out of the house. Partly so she can participate on her own time schedule instead of every day, lol, but also because we definitely don't have the room while she and her sister are still here!  My youngest *literally* lists pros and cons if you ask him if he'd like more siblings.  At 6, he understands there's no easy answer!

 

FWIW, I have two sisters and only have a relationship with one of them.  That's the perfect number of siblings for ME.  :tongue_smilie:

[SKL]

Yeah, I'm not really sure why certain religions push large families.  I guess that is a discussion for another day.  :P  I do feel economics are relevant, but I still feel it's worth the cost to have more than 1 kid if the parents are so inclined.  :)

[mommyoffive]

Yeah, I'm not really sure why certain religions push large families.  I guess that is a discussion for another day.  :p  I do feel economics are relevant, but I still feel it's worth the cost to have more than 1 kid if the parents are so inclined.  :)

 

Agree on that.

 

 

I guess it would be they want a larger bass for their religion? 

[mommyoffive]

I agree with the bolded, BUT what I have seen much of (much, much, much of) is dismissing real concerns as though they are ALL luxuries. So, for example, once I was listening to a tape promoting large families (it was by a Catholic organization- and BTW, I agreed with it at that time) where the interviewer said she was told once that a person had decided to have a small family because they “wanted to do Disneyâ€. Of course, this was ridiculed; kids don’t need Disney, take them camping, blah, blah, blah. But to me this is making a false dichotomy of it. Not everyone who gives finances significant thought just wants “Disneyâ€. I concealed illness as a child because I knew my mother would worry about paying for doctors or medicine. In one case, I concealed a UTI until I had a severe kidney infection and had to go to the hospital.

 

Anyay...I’m just saying I have too often (like, waaaay) heard financial realities of many children dismissed as though if you can feed them gruel and sleep three on cots in the attic, it’s still good enough; at least they have each other! *rolleyes*. Sometimes, you don’t realize that each child comes with his or her own unique issues and have needs that are not hand-me-down-able.

 

Also- I know we have discussed the subject of financing college at length here, but, though I originally did not think it was necessary or important for parents to fund college, nor for most kids to go, I have done a 180 on that and no longer think this way. YMMV, of course.

 

How many siblings do you have?  I may have missed that.