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Urologist just called--please talk me down update in post 1


Scarlett
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His PSA came back at 4.9.

 

Doc wants to retest in 2 weeks. I am terrified. And I know dh will be more so. Please someone tell me something good.

 

Update 10-27-17

 

Got a letter at 6:00 p.m. on a Friday. His PSA went from 4.9 to 5.2 in 3 weeks. It is a sign of cancer so they recommend an MRI of the prostate.

 

Anyone have a prostate MRI? Or their husband?

 

Sigh. I am thinking since they sent a letter it is not something they are super worried about. I sure wish they had called though. So I could have scheduled it before the weekend.

Edited by Scarlett
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I have had high PSA numbers for many years. In 2006, my Urologist did a Biopsy of my Prostate, just to verify his belief there was no Cancer. I believe many Urologists are very skeptical of the PSA test and what it may or may not indicate.   Also, for many men who do have Prostate Cancer, the best treatment is often no treatment and they will probably die of something else and not Prostate Cancer. If the 2nd test comes back high, possibly your Urologist can do an Ultrasound exam(?) or schedule a Biopsy, if he is concerned   Good luck to your DH!   

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There are several things that cause elevated PSA, not just prostate cancer.  But even if it is the dreaded C, prostate is very survivable. Very.  Being scared is totally reasonable, but try not to let it consume you. It might be a false reading or something benign. 

 

:grouphug:

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"In addition to prostate cancer, a number of benign (not cancerous) conditions can cause a manĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s PSA level to rise. The most frequent benign prostate conditions that cause an elevation in PSA level are prostatitis (inflammation of the prostate) and benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) (enlargement of the prostate)."

 

"There is no specific normal or abnormal level of PSA in the blood. In the past, most doctors considered PSA levels of 4.0 ng/mL and lower as normal. Therefore, if a man had a PSA level above 4.0 ng/mL, doctors would often recommend a prostate biopsy to determine whether prostate cancer was present. However, more recent studies have shown that some men with PSA levels below 4.0 ng/mL have prostate cancer and that many men with higher levels do not have prostate cancer. In addition, various factors can cause a manĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s PSA level to fluctuate. For example, a manĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s PSA level often rises if he has prostatitis or a urinary tract infection."

 

"If a man who has no symptoms of prostate cancer chooses to undergo prostate cancer screening and is found to have an elevated PSA level, the doctor may recommend another PSA test to confirm the original finding. If the PSA level is still high, the doctor may recommend that the man continue with PSA tests and DREs at regular intervals to watch for any changes over time."

 

"Most men with an elevated PSA level turn out not to have prostate cancer; only about 25 percent of men who have a prostate biopsy due to an elevated PSA level actually have prostate cancer."

 

 
Very common, and even if there is a real problem, very treatable.  :grouphug:
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I know you're worried about the worst case scenario, so I'll ignore the fact that your dh's PSA isn't that high and that there's a very good chance it's benign, and I'll tell you about my Dad who had prostate cancer.

 

His PSA was WAY higher than your dh's but his cancer still turned out to be completely localized and was 100% curable. The cure rates for prostate cancer are very high, so even if the worst happens and your dh gets scary news, his odds of being completely cured are EXCELLENT. But again, my dad's PSA was much higher -- your dh's is much more encouraging -- and my dad was still cured.

 

I hope I didn't scare you. Others have already posted that it may very well turn out to be nothing at all, but I wanted to let you know that even if it is bad news, the cure rates are still excellent.

 

I'll pray for him! :grouphug:

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Well I googled after I posted and I guess 4.9 is not that high for a 50 year old.

 

He is on blood thinners and so a biopsy is a big deal...

 

I know it is survivable, but it would devastate him if it affected sex.

Well, there are options available if it affected his ability to have sex, but please keep reminding him that his life is the first priority and everything else can be dealt with later.

 

We know a guy who was so afraid of impotency that he chose an experimental treatment over the surgery that offered a 90% cure rate. At first it seemed like it had worked, but his cancer returned and he ended up having much lower odds of survival. It has been about a year and he's doing well again, but I suspect he's in remission and not cured, so I don't know what the future holds for him. But he turned down the surgery with a 90% cure rate for an option with much lower odds, which I thought was crazy.

 

I know some people put a big priority on sex, but you can't have sex when you're dead. I do understand why your dh would be very worried about it, though, and you might want to try to find some encouraging stories for him to read to help him feel less scared.

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My sis's FIL had a high PSA. He had prostate cancer treatment, including surgery. After all of that, his numbers were still super high.

I have no idea why or what's going on, but it certainly made us all go  :confused1: .

It has been a couple of years since his surgery.

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My FIL has had a raised PSA for 20-30years. They monitor it closely but it has caused him no issues. He is in his mid 80Ă¢â‚¬â„¢s.

 

(ETA - and for the record, his PSA is also much higher than that)

Edited by WoolySocks
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Slow-growing prostate cancer often doesn't even require treatment, just monitoring.

 

I know that's the case with some men, but aren't they usually much, much older than the OP's dh? We have known several men who had prostate cancer, and they were all treated for it.

 

Personally, I would be too afraid to adopt a watch and wait posture if I found out my dh had cancer, although I know some people are willing to do that.

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I know that's the case with some men, but aren't they usually much, much older than the OP's dh? We have known several men who had prostate cancer, and they were all treated for it.

 

Personally, I would be too afraid to adopt a watch and wait posture if I found out my dh had cancer, although I know some people are willing to do that.

 

I've known two cases early 60s.  Just saying that since the DH is worried about sex, even if he does need treatment it might not be for awhile.

 

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I haven't even told him.  I wanted to wait until he was home and I vented my fears here so I can be calm with him.  

 

Another issue is our insurance.  What we have ends the end of November.  His work is about to put him on the payroll and they offer insurance, but since it is a small firm I really really fear it will be expensive crap insurance.  But maybe whatever has to be done can be accomplished by the end of November.  Ugh.  The appt with the urologist is first week of November.  They are re doing the test on the 23rd of October which is 3 weeks after the first test.  Maybe I will see if he can get in before November 6th.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Message Lanny - I know he is very familiar with this topic.

 

Thanks Arctic...   OP:  I think (going from memory here) that if you and your DH engaged in what is known as "tea" on WTM, a short time before the 2nd PSA test,  that could have increased his PSA number, when they tested 3 weeks later...

 

I also think them stating that increase is a sign of Cancer is not something that is necessarily true and that it should not have been included in the letter.

 

I believe a Biopsy will prove or disprove whether or not your DH has any Prostate Cancer and that probably his Urologist should do that, to confirm or deny the possible presence of Prostate Cancer.

 

Have they done an Ultrasound exam on the Prostate of the DH?

 

NOW....   If your DH does have Prostate Cancer that is when this would become *extremely* tricky. WHY???

Because the best "treatment" for Prostate Cancer is often no treatment.

 

That would depend upon the age of your DH and wheter or not the Cancer is rapidly advancing or slowly advancing.  

 

Many men who have Prostate Cancer end up dying because of some other cause.

 

In a young man, with  a fast, aggressive Prostate Cancer, they would probably treat it aggressively.

 

In an older man, with a slow Prostate Cancer, they might not treat it.

 

IF it turns out that your DH does have Prostate Cancer, then, you and he and his Urologists will need to carefully explore all   possible treatment options. 

 

Good luck to your DH!

 

P.S.

The day I had the Biopsy of my Prostate, my Urologist also had  several other patients there the same day. One of them was totally terrified. I really felt sorry for him, because the procedure is a little uncomfortable, especially the position, but it is only for a few minutes.  They had arranged for him to be under Anesthesia (General?) and then to be admitted to the hospital, because he made such a huge deal of it, unnecessarily.  My wife spoke with his wife, but it was out of her range of influence with her DH. Very sad...

 

After my Biopsy, we walked a couple of blocks and had Lunch in a nearby restaurant as I recall.   Not my finest day, but not something that would ever cause me to even think about Anesthesia and being admitted to a hospital.  That's totally unnecessary. 

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An MRI is pretty boring unless you are claustrophobic. I've had two and honestly I just kind of dozed through them. The noise is loud and random and that freaks some people out but doesn't bother me at all.  You just need to lie still.  You feel nothing, it just sounds like the darned machine is about to break up into pieces. 

If they want contrast, they might put in an iv and inject some solution. Mine kind of stung going in but that was it as far as discomfort. 

Try to rest easy. Just because they've asked for an mri doesn't mean anything yet. Just means they are curious enough to investigate further. 

 

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An MRI is pretty boring unless you are claustrophobic. I've had two and honestly I just kind of dozed through them. The noise is loud and random and that freaks some people out but doesn't bother me at all.  You just need to lie still.  You feel nothing, it just sounds like the darned machine is about to break up into pieces. 

If they want contrast, they might put in an iv and inject some solution. Mine kind of stung going in but that was it as far as discomfort. 

 

Try to rest easy. Just because they've asked for an mri doesn't mean anything yet. Just means they are curious enough to investigate further. 

 

 

 

I think I had an MRI once. I think it was for a Gastrointestinal thing.  I remember them rolling me into a tube like thing and yes it was very Claustrophobic...  Don't move and listen to what the people running the test are telling you to do or not to do.

 

I am puzzled that they would ask for an MRI at this point and not for an Ultrasound.

 

Possibly a Biopsy would be a good thing to consider at this time?  It depends upon the age of the DH and how concerned the Urologist is. I believe they would treat a younger man more aggressively than an older man in this situation.  

 

In my case, our Urologist told  us that he needed to do the Biopsy, to eliminate the possibility that I had Prostate Cancer. He was correct. I did not have Prostate Cancer.   :hurray:

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Scarlett, I'd tell you not to worry, but I know you're going to worry no matter what anyone says (I would, too!) but it sounds like even if it is cancer, it would be in a very early (and highly curable) stage. And although a slightly raised PSA level should be thoroughly checked out just to be safe, the odds are still greatly in your dh's favor and it will most likely turn out not to be cancer. But you are doing the right thing by getting the testing done because it's not worth taking a chance. This is definitely one of those times where knowing is better than not knowing.

 

I'll pray for him, and for you, too, because I know you must be so worried about him. :grouphug:

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I think I had an MRI once. I think it was for a Gastrointestinal thing. I remember them rolling me into a tube like thing and yes it was very Claustrophobic... Don't move and listen to what the people running the test are telling you to do or not to do.

 

I am puzzled that they would ask for an MRI at this point and not for an Ultrasound.

 

Possibly a Biopsy would be a good thing to consider at this time? It depends upon the age of the DH and how concerned the Urologist is. I believe they would treat a younger man more aggressively than an older man in this situation.

 

In my case, our Urologist told us that he needed to do the Biopsy, to eliminate the possibility that I had Prostate Cancer. He was correct. I did not have Prostate Cancer. :hurray:

Ditto the ultrasound instead of MRI. It's lots cheaper!

 

Scarlett, did the urologist palpate anything (lump, irregular shape) on a digital exam? The PSA alone is one thing - and a person can have prostate cancer with a low (<4) prostate level - but I'd not be panicking about cancer right now unless the PSA level is accompanied by an irregularity detected via a digital physical exam.

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(Hugs).

 

MRIs are "easy", as long as your DH isn't claustrophobic.

 

But, I'd recommend getting it at Big Hospital facility, on the rare chance it's cancer. They may have a different protocol that's best. Or wherever the urologist recommends, as s/he is used to seeing and reading lots of reports.

 

I would think an MRI would be superior than an u/a for diagnosis, but idk for sure.

 

ETA- sometimes MRIs can cause a single muscle twitch or two. It's not common afaik, but he may be concerned if muscles near the prostate twitch ...

Edited by displace
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Thanks Arctic... OP: I think (going from memory here) that if you and your DH engaged in what is known as "tea" on WTM, a short time before the 2nd PSA test, that could have increased his PSA number, when they tested 3 weeks later...

 

I also think them stating that increase is a sign of Cancer is not something that is necessarily true and that it should not have been included in the letter.

 

I believe a Biopsy will prove or disprove whether or not your DH has any Prostate Cancer and that probably his Urologist should do that, to confirm or deny the possible presence of Prostate Cancer.

 

Have they done an Ultrasound exam on the Prostate of the DH?

 

NOW.... If your DH does have Prostate Cancer that is when this would become *extremely* tricky. WHY???

Because the best "treatment" for Prostate Cancer is often no treatment.

 

That would depend upon the age of your DH and wheter or not the Cancer is rapidly advancing or slowly advancing.

 

Many men who have Prostate Cancer end up dying because of some other cause.

 

In a young man, with a fast, aggressive Prostate Cancer, they would probably treat it aggressively.

 

In an older man, with a slow Prostate Cancer, they might not treat it.

 

IF it turns out that your DH does have Prostate Cancer, then, you and he and his Urologists will need to carefully explore all possible treatment options.

 

Good luck to your DH!

 

P.S.

The day I had the Biopsy of my Prostate, my Urologist also had several other patients there the same day. One of them was totally terrified. I really felt sorry for him, because the procedure is a little uncomfortable, especially the position, but it is only for a few minutes. They had arranged for him to be under Anesthesia (General?) and then to be admitted to the hospital, because he made such a huge deal of it, unnecessarily. My wife spoke with his wife, but it was out of her range of influence with her DH. Very sad...

 

After my Biopsy, we walked a couple of blocks and had Lunch in a nearby restaurant as I recall. Not my finest day, but not something that would ever cause me to even think about Anesthesia and being admitted to a hospital. That's totally unnecessary.

Oddly enough I happen to remember we had a lot of Tea in the days before his second PSA test....he had it done early Monday morning....AND I am almost positive we did before the first PSA test.

 

I am hopeful they can rule out cancer by doing the MRI so that we can avoid the biopsy. I need to google this but Dh says they puncture the intestine to get to the prostate for the biopsy? That sounds terrible, and risky but I am sure they have the technique down.

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Ditto the ultrasound instead of MRI. It's lots cheaper!

 

Scarlett, did the urologist palpate anything (lump, irregular shape) on a digital exam? The PSA alone is one thing - and a person can have prostate cancer with a low (<4) prostate level - but I'd not be panicking about cancer right now unless the PSA level is accompanied by an irregularity detected via a digital physical exam.

The emergency doc did a digital exam and only reported slight enlargement. The urologist did not do a digital exam. He did a bladder scope and he said the urine channel was not being obstructed by the prostate so he felt the prostate was fine.

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Oddly enough I happen to remember we had a lot of Tea in the days before his second PSA test....he had it done early Monday morning....AND I am almost positive we did before the first PSA test.

 

I am hopeful they can rule out cancer by doing the MRI so that we can avoid the biopsy. I need to google this but Dh says they puncture the intestine to get to the prostate for the biopsy? That sounds terrible, and risky but I am sure they have the technique down.

Yes, biopsies are taken through the rectum. They usually take multiple.

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Oddly enough I happen to remember we had a lot of Tea in the days before his second PSA test....he had it done early Monday morning....AND I am almost positive we did before the first PSA test.

 

I am hopeful they can rule out cancer by doing the MRI so that we can avoid the biopsy. I need to google this but Dh says they puncture the intestine to get to the prostate for the biopsy? That sounds terrible, and risky but I am sure they have the technique down.

I just have to laugh that Lanny liked this post. Ă°Å¸Ëœ

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Oddly enough I happen to remember we had a lot of Tea in the days before his second PSA test....he had it done early Monday morning....AND I am almost positive we did before the first PSA test.

 

I am hopeful they can rule out cancer by doing the MRI so that we can avoid the biopsy. I need to google this but Dh says they puncture the intestine to get to the prostate for the biopsy? That sounds terrible, and risky but I am sure they have the technique down.

 

WHAT?     Puncture the intestine?   Where on earth did he read that, or did some ignorant moron tell him that?  (There are some heinous people in the world who  would tell someone something like that to scare the you know what out of them)

 

THAT IS FALSE. THAT IS CRAZY.  Ridiculous.

 

They go in thru the rear end, which requires the patient be in an uncomfortable position. 

 

Somewhat like when a woman goes to the OB-GYN and they have the Stirrups on the examining table?

 

They have a probe that grabs tiny pieces of the Prostate. Samples for the Lab to inspect  I think in my case they took approximately 6 or 8 samples. 

 

The only reason I can imagine for doing the MRI first would be that it might give them a better map of where to take the samples when they do the Biopsy.

 

I had one MRI, but it was years ago. That had nothing to do with my Prostate.  That was not my most enjoyable moment in the hospital where I had both things done, but was less stressful than the Biopsy of my Prostate.

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The emergency doc did a digital exam and only reported slight enlargement. The urologist did not do a digital exam. He did a bladder scope and he said the urine channel was not being obstructed by the prostate so he felt the prostate was fine.

 

UH OH.    IMO  your DH needs a much better, Board Certified Urologist, who does the manual Digital Rectal Examination on his/her patients.  I can assure you that IS NOT my favorite thing to have done to me. And, our Urologist says it doesn't hurt and as I told my wife, let someone do it to him and he will know whether or not it hurts...)   It isn't acute pain, but it is IMO quite uncomfortable.    :closedeyes:

 

THAT is such a basic test and only takes a few minutes in the office of the Urologist, that I would be looking for a Board Certified Urologist  (M.D.) to replace the one you have.

 

The E.R. M.D. was better at this than the  Urologist is...

 

IMO, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS DO THE DIGITAL RECTAL EXAM.  UNPLEASANT AS THAT MAY BE, FOR 2 OR 3 MINUTES.

 

NOTICE THE BOLDED AT THE END OF THE QUOTED POST:  If he felt the prostate was fine, then the only thing he is going on are the 2 PSA blood tests, which are commonly known (for 20 years approximately) as being of very questionable value? And, there was apparently some Tea involved, before the 2 PSA blood tests were taken.

 

I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT, BOARD CERTIFIED UROLOGIST.

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UH OH. IMO your DH needs a much better, Board Certified Urologist, who does the manual Digital Rectal Examination on his/her patients. I can assure you that IS NOT my favorite thing to have done to me. And, our Urologist says it doesn't hurt and as I told my wife, let someone do it to him and he will know whether or not it hurts...) It isn't acute pain, but it is IMO quite uncomfortable. :closedeyes:

 

THAT is such a basic test and only takes a few minutes in the office of the Urologist, that I would be looking for a Board Certified Urologist (M.D.) to replace the one you have.

 

The E.R. M.D. was better at this than the Urologist is...

 

IMO, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS DO THE DIGITAL RECTAL EXAM. UNPLEASANT AS THAT MAY BE, FOR 2 OR 3 MINUTES.

 

NOTICE THE BOLDED AT THE END OF THE QUOTED POST: If he felt the prostate was fine, then the only thing he is going on are the 2 PSA blood tests, which are commonly known (for 20 years approximately) as being of very questionable value? And, there was apparently some Tea involved, before the 2 PSA blood tests were taken.

 

I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT, BOARD CERTIFIED UROLOGIST.

I can't wait to tell Dh about the connection to Tea and high PSA. So we will be discussing this with the Doctor. Maybe not even do any more testing until we have another PSA after abstaining and a digital exam.

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I can't wait to tell Dh about the connection to Tea and high PSA. So we will be discussing this with the Doctor. Maybe not even do any more testing until we have another PSA after abstaining and a digital exam.

 

The High PSA number could also result from an Enlarged Prostate. Mine has been enlarged for many years.

 

I am trying to rank in my mind, the level of discomfort with the following things I had done while awake:

 

Prostate Biopsy, 2 LASIK surgeries, Vasectomy.  

 

The Vasectomy was the "scariest" of those 3 experiences.  

 

It has been common knowledge, for approximately 20 years, possibly longer, that the results of the PSA blood test may or may not mean anything.  Years ago here in Colombia, there was another blood test that our Urologist also had me take (that was back in the days when we had much more income and we had a PPO).  

 

I know our Urologist had studied in the USA, but I'm not sure if that was a Urology Residency or a Post Residency thing.

 

As much as I dislike the Digital Prostate Exam, I know that it is necessary and I cannot imagine a Urologist not doing that exam.  It's uncomfortable, but it's only for 2 or 3 minutes.

 

I would not trust a Urologist who does not do the Digital Prostate Exam with his/her hand...

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UH OH. IMO your DH needs a much better, Board Certified Urologist, who does the manual Digital Rectal Examination on his/her patients. I can assure you that IS NOT my favorite thing to have done to me. And, our Urologist says it doesn't hurt and as I told my wife, let someone do it to him and he will know whether or not it hurts...) It isn't acute pain, but it is IMO quite uncomfortable. :closedeyes:

 

THAT is such a basic test and only takes a few minutes in the office of the Urologist, that I would be looking for a Board Certified Urologist (M.D.) to replace the one you have.

 

The E.R. M.D. was better at this than the Urologist is...

 

IMO, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS DO THE DIGITAL RECTAL EXAM. UNPLEASANT AS THAT MAY BE, FOR 2 OR 3 MINUTES.

 

NOTICE THE BOLDED AT THE END OF THE QUOTED POST: If he felt the prostate was fine, then the only thing he is going on are the 2 PSA blood tests, which are commonly known (for 20 years approximately) as being of very questionable value? And, there was apparently some Tea involved, before the 2 PSA blood tests were taken.

 

I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT, BOARD CERTIFIED UROLOGIST.

Amen and amen. A DRE can save a man's life. Living proof under my roof.

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IMO, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS DO THE DIGITAL RECTAL EXAM.  UNPLEASANT AS THAT MAY BE, FOR 2 OR 3 MINUTES.

 

 

This.  PSA isn't always always reliable.  As in, BTDT (well, not *me*).  PSA was not indicative of any issues.  It was the exam that raised a red flag.

 

Some type of imaging was done, but I don't recall what.

 

If cancer is suspected, a biopsy will indicate yes/no, and if yes what kind of cancer (fast-growing or slow-growing, etc. and it's possible to have more than one kind). 

 

Should it happen that your dh needs to explore treatment options, don't hesitate to seek a 2nd or even 3rd opinion regarding treatment, pros and cons for each option.  Don't feel pressured into making a hasty decision.

 

Should it happen that he decides on surgery, I *strongly* recommend that he find the most experienced surgeon with best patient outcomes that his insurance will cover.  Robot-assisted surgery with an experienced surgeon (100+ surgeries of that type, minimum).  He really wants to have the nerves preserved.

 

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PSA is what saved my dad. He was in his 40s with very aggressive prostate cancer that popped up between physicals. I do not believe the DRE was remarkable. Biopsy and surgery gave him several years. Radiation has given him several more after his PSA went up again. Fifteen years later, heĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s still here.

 

DonĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t panic. This is just the opportunity to see if thereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s something to be concerned about and even if there is, there are still things to be done.

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