I am amazed at some of the comments regarding universal health care.

[Rose in BC]

Occassionaly I have read some of the political threads on this board. Usually not though because the arguments fall apart quickly and resort to slanderous rhetoric.

 

Anyway, the most amazing comments I read are the ones surrounding universal health care. I live in Canada and while I recognize that everyone's individual experience may be different, as comments have been posted I've asked my friends and families if they've ever experienced some of the things people are fearing.

 

I've read comments that range from you'll be forced to go to the doctor because government is funding the system they'll be proactive about health care to you'll never get any service. I've read you won't be treated if you smoke or are over weight. I've read that you might be euthanized if it's deemed that the quality of your life is insufficient. I can go on and on.

 

I have struggled with my weight my whole life . . . no doctor has ever refused me treatment. I have never been "forced" to attend any medical treatment. I am reminded annually about my pap and mammogram tests but I do not have to go to those appointments. I know of no one euthanized because their life was deemed worthless. The treatment we have received as a family has always been within reasonable amounts of time. (I am not saying there aren't waiting lists. I'm not sure this can be attributed solely to universal health care.)

 

I am also not financially bankrupt because of our families heath circumstances. We've had myriad of treatments all covered by our health plan, which I might add we do pay into via taxes and medical premiums.

 

I'm not saying our system is perfect. It's not. I felt compelled to post this because universal health care is being portrayed as evil by people who have not experienced it.

 

Back to political debates . . . :)

[Night Elf]

I agree. The paranoid fear is absolutely amazing from both sides. I'm embarrassed to be an American right now. I wonder if other countries are laughing at us or feeling sorry for us. :confused:

[NevadaRabbit]

Rose, thank you for that.

 

Up front: I'm not in favor of the US having a national health care plan, largely because I believe removing choice from a system has a negative effect on quality and motivation. In the US, we hear about Canadians coming across the border to get better health care because there just aren't enough doctors and high-end treatment centers and folks waiting 4 years for their bypass surgery who come here and get it on their own tab. I don't expect that you know all these people, :) but is this at all true? Has Canada suffered a decrease in the quality of care under your system?

[NevadaRabbit]

I agree. The paranoid fear is absolutely amazing from both sides. I'm embarrassed to be an American right now. I wonder if other countries are laughing at us or feeling sorry for us. :confused:

 

I"m not embarrassed in the slightest. I am pleased that our country can talk, even insultingly, about our candidates. There remain many places in the world where a voice of dissent would be silenced immediately and permanently.

 

I'm embarrassed that so many in our country are ashamed of our country.

[asta]

Many Americans know someone affiliated with the US Military or US Government. Within the US Government, there is something that is very much, if not identical to, socialized medicine.

 

And it doesn't work very well. At all. (unless you're a Congressman)

 

While models of socialized medicine may work extremely well for other nations, the model that is currently in place in the US, and upon which a larger system would be devised by many people's thoughts (fears, opinions - even Nancy Pelosi, House Speaker, commented on it at one point), is an insufficient model.

 

(where's Mrs. Mungo? She could elaborate on this...)

 

 

asta

[swellmomma]

ITA!!!

 

Here in ALberta our health care is changing, some for the good - In January we will no longer have to pay monthly premiums for health care, some for the bad - alot of services are becoming uninsured, so you have to pay out of pocket for wart removal, casts/crutches, etc. That said a dr will never charge you for those things if he knows you can't afford it, and typically it is the walk in clinics that charge that not the primary care dr's, or ER's.

 

For overall health I can see any dr I want, some require referrals but that is as easy as going into a walk in clinic and asking for one.

 

I have had issues with my special needs kids and getting help for them once school age because we homeschool. After much calling around it turns out if I registered as fully aligned, we would be considered public school kids even though we would be homeschooling, I just don't want to follow the alberta program od studies I want to develop my own based on my kids. There is still services available but the waiting lists are long, and I will pay out of pocket to get them. That part is no different than what you have in the states already.

 

I also have private health insurance, to reduce the cost of prescription meds, ambuloance rides, hospital stays(semi private and private rooms covered to avoid being a a cramped ward room), dental care and down the line I will increase it to also cover orthodontic work.

 

All children under the age of 18 receive free eye exams each year as part of the universal health care. Child birth is covered, and as of April 2009 Midwives will be covered under our health care as well, giving us even more options for prenatal care and delivery.

 

We have never been forced to go for regular exams, heck I didn't even go to my 6 week check up after dd was born. I take my special needs kids every 3 months for my own peace of mind to monitor meds etc, but no one is making me. My other kids only go once a year for a check up, and then only if sick or injured. We also don't immunize since my youngest dd had a reaction, there is nothing forcing us to do so. We don't have to get special exemptions or anything, it is purely the parents choice.

 

I think that if the us got universal health care it will likely be modelled after the Canadian system, due the close proximity and relations btw the countries, so looking to see what happens in Europe with it causes more panic than understanding. Our system is not perfect, but it sure is better than trying to decide if you can afford to take your kid to the dr for that cough, or if that visit will be too expensive to handle.

[Colleen]

No time right now to elaborate, but I appreciate your perspective and agree with you whole-heartedly.

[Rose in BC]

Rose, thank you for that.

 

Up front: I'm not in favor of the US having a national health care plan, largely because I believe removing choice from a system has a negative effect on quality and motivation. In the US, we hear about Canadians coming across the border to get better health care because there just aren't enough doctors and high-end treatment centers and folks waiting 4 years for their bypass surgery who come here and get it on their own tab. I don't expect that you know all these people, :) but is this at all true? Has Canada suffered a decrease in the quality of care under your system?

 

Yes people sometimes have to wait. My mom waited close to a year for knee replacement surgery (which, btw she had at the age of 79 . . . they didn't refuse her because she was nearing the end of her life span lol!). I do not personally know of any life threatening situations that required a wait. I can list many, many examples of prompt treatment that I or other's I know have received.

 

I also don't lack choice. I can choose my family doctor. I can choose which specialist I want to see. I choose to accept or refuse treatment. I can see a doctor in my town, or out of town.

[TeacherZee]

Occassionaly I have read some of the political threads on this board. Usually not though because the arguments fall apart quickly and resort to slanderous rhetoric.

 

Anyway, the most amazing comments I read are the ones surrounding universal health care. I live in Canada and while I recognize that everyone's individual experience may be different, as comments have been posted I've asked my friends and families if they've ever experienced some of the things people are fearing.

 

I've read comments that range from you'll be forced to go to the doctor because government is funding the system they'll be proactive about health care to you'll never get any service. I've read you won't be treated if you smoke or are over weight. I've read that you might be euthanized if it's deemed that the quality of your life is insufficient. I can go on and on.

 

I have struggled with my weight my whole life . . . no doctor has ever refused me treatment. I have never been "forced" to attend any medical treatment. I am reminded annually about my pap and mammogram tests but I do not have to go to those appointments. I know of no one euthanized because their life was deemed worthless. The treatment we have received as a family has always been within reasonable amounts of time. (I am not saying there aren't waiting lists. I'm not sure this can be attributed solely to universal health care.)

 

I am also not financially bankrupt because of our families heath circumstances. We've had myriad of treatments all covered by our health plan, which I might add we do pay into via taxes and medical premiums.

 

I'm not saying our system is perfect. It's not. I felt compelled to post this because universal health care is being portrayed as evil by people who have not experienced it.

 

Back to political debates . . . :)

 

:iagree:

 

What she said. Only I am in Sweden. And when I lived in the UK (both England and Scotland) it was the same.

 

And in Sweden mws are covered. Actually only high risk or complicated births are attended by doctors, everyone else sees mw. Although I think you have to pay if you want one for both prenatal care and the birth. I see a mw for my birth control. She is fantastic!

[EKS]

Thank you for posting this! You're right about waiting lists. People against universal health care are always bringing this up when the fact is, every time I try to get an appointment with my gynecologist I have to do it 6 months in advance. I'd call that a waiting list!

[Dianne-TX]

If Obama becomes president and universal health care passes and families without health care are given the amount of money he says ($12,000 I think), where is that money going to come from? Our economy is already going south and Obama wants to spend more money? Doesn't his plan also include illegal immigrant families too?

[Audrey]

Rose, I get my panties in a twist every time I hear Americans decry our Cdn health care system. I used to BE an American, and I've lived both sides of the equation.

 

I could never live in the US again knowing the peace of mind that I have here. I never have to think about my bank balance when my kid gets sick. I never have to wonder how I'm going to pay next month's big fat premium. And, I remember how, even though my parents had excellent insurance, worked hard all their lives to save for retirement, had a house with NO mortgage, in the end they were bankrupted by my mother's lengthy cancer care because even the best insurance doesn't pay ALL of the bills or meds. I know too many family members and friends who experience similar hardships trying to pay for catastrophic illnesses, or trying to keep up with climbing insurance premiums, or having to deal with not being able to afford insurance at all. It's beyond sad.

 

It's only one of the reasons I went through the process to formally renounce my US citizenship.

[NevadaRabbit]

If Obama becomes president and universal health care passes and families without health care are given the amount of money he says ($12,000 I think), where is that money going to come from? Our economy is already going south and Obama wants to spend more money? Doesn't his plan also include illegal immigrant families too?

 

Taxes. Brace yourself. Watch as the definition of "rich" slides lower and lower and lower; watch as "the rich" are told it's time for them to pony up; watch as prospering businesses are taxed more and more heavily; watch as the government will find a way to take more of what your family saves and call it "patriotic" to remove it from your account and put it in someone else's. Just watch.

[WTMCassandra]

I didn't participate in the threads you speak of, but I am against universal health care in America because I suspect the military system will be the "prototype" that will be expanded, simply because it's already in place. And I had such a horrid, horrid series of experiences with that system when my husband was active duty, at a base with one of "the best" hospitals in the Army, that I don't want to go near that system with a 10-ft pole. And I'm not talking about an isolated incident, and I don't want to elaborate further. I have enough aggravation in my life without reliving that stuff ; ).

 

I'm glad the system in Canada works better than that, but I don't think America will look to Canada or other countries. Expanding the system already here would be the path of least resistance, and my point is that the system here is seriously flawed.

[Zelda]

I"m not embarrassed in the slightest. I am pleased that our country can talk, even insultingly, about our candidates. There remain many places in the world where a voice of dissent would be silenced immediately and permanently.

 

I'm embarrassed that so many in our country are ashamed of our country.

 

:iagree:

 

Mostly. My mother is from a communist country and still marvels at being free to say whatever she wants to about the heads of state in this country. My grandfather spent five years in a prison camp for speaking out against the regime.

 

I'm not embarrassed by our country or its citizens. I support someone's right to feel embarrassed and scream it from the rooftops. I don't get it, but I support it.

[Jenny in Atl]

Taxes. Brace yourself. Watch as the definition of "rich" slides lower and lower and lower; watch as "the rich" are told it's time for them to pony up; watch as prospering businesses are taxed more and more heavily; watch as the government will find a way to take more of what your family saves and call it "patriotic" to remove it from your account and put it in someone else's. Just watch.

 

I already pay well over 15k a year for health insurance and medical supplies. This does not include the 2k deductible for things like regular check ups and the dentist (no coverage). I'd be happy to wait six months to see the OB/GYN, usually have to wait about a month now, unless I'm pregnant. So as a small business owner, I am already paying far more than I would under the worst case socialist scenario.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I could not get my ds in to see the ped for 2 months. Once I got an "emergency" apt at the office (ear infection, screaming kid) and waited 2.5 hrs past my supposed apt time. I finally left and took ds to FNP clinic. Also, I just had to reschedule my pap (I got my period day before apt that was scheduled 6 months ago) and next available apt was 2 months in advance. I had to make 2 apts just in case my very irregular period decided to rear its ugly head on my apt day again.

Dh recently had a big bill because he *forgot* that the specialist he was seeing could not order labs, had to come from primary doc. We have to choose docs from a special list if we want to get the reduced price benefits. If we want to see a particular doc that we *know* is the best in the field, we have to pay lots of $$ out of our own pocket.

Oh, did I mention I live in USA? AND I have what is considered excellent health insurance through dh's employer?

I never heard of these particular problems when I lived in Canada, so I'll jump on the Canadian bandwagon and oppose those who decry their system. And FWIW, neither party's candidate is proposing a system that mimics Canada's, so comparisons are moot.

[Cricket]

Why wouldn't universal health care work here? I have a friend who used to live in France and said the system there was wonderful. Like Canadians on this board have said, Canadians are happy with their system and English people seem happy with theirs. Americans on the other hand like to point to those systems as hopelessly flawed. (As if ours isn't! :)) I just wonder what it is about our country that makes it seem impossible to do well. And yes from what I've heard I'd agree our military health care system is awful.

 

I don't like the idea of government paying for health care. We've been uninsured for 7 years except for one of those years but we used Medicaid because our dd needed surgery. I loved not worrying about whether or not we could go to the doctor. During that year our ds got a nasty staph infection in his leg. If we weren't insured, I might have waited longer to see the doctor and tried a few more things at home first. If it had been a more aggressive bacteria, a decision like that could have cost ds his leg.

 

I guess I just think it is such a shame that in a country as rich as ours people still can't afford health care. I think we could make better choices with our money. Do we as Americans really need such giant houses if we can't pay for health care ourselves? I'd say almost all Americans live beyond their means. If most of us economized a little more, maybe we could afford health coverage. But there are still many people living on the edge and can't economize any more than they already do. I'm not sure what the solution is.

[cathmom]

Thank you for posting this. Just - thank you.

[justme]

I am one of those is very afraid of socialized medicine. I don't buy the argument that everything is 'fine' in countries that have it, so there is nothing to fear. The point is, things may be fine now, but you never know where they will go. Governments always have a way of over-reaching, and this is just to get a foot in the door into total control of your life and society in general. It might take one year, 5 years, maybe even 20 years, but it WILL happen. Again, all they need is a foot in the door to lay the groundwork and use the 'frog in boiling water' method. Once governments get a taste of power and control in any area, their thirst grows ever stronger and there is only one road they can take. Reason it away and defend it however you want, but those are the facts.

[Stacy in NJ]

Rose, I posted on another thread about my older sister who is a nurse in Northern NH. Fully 40% of their patients, she works for an endocrinologist, are Canadian.

 

While I have real concerns about our (USA) system, or lack there of. I don't think a Canadian type system would work for us. Our populations is much larger, more diverse and less willing to cooperate with a government bureaucracy.

 

I worked for 10 years as a cooporate benefits analysis. Basically, I worked for a consulting firm that adviced medium and larger employers (100 - 10,000 employees) on employee benefits (life, health, dental, pension), you get the idea. Much of our problem involves the inflexibility that's structured within the system, much like our public educational system. Replacing a rigid system with an even larger bureaucracy is just a very bad idea, IMO.

 

We aren't Europeans, we're not Canadians. We need a system that acknowledges the unique circumstances and personalites of Americans, not just wish we were different.

[LizzyBee]

Many Americans know someone affiliated with the US Military or US Government. Within the US Government, there is something that is very much, if not identical to, socialized medicine.

 

And it doesn't work very well. At all. (unless you're a Congressman)

 

While models of socialized medicine may work extremely well for other nations, the model that is currently in place in the US, and upon which a larger system would be devised by many people's thoughts (fears, opinions - even Nancy Pelosi, House Speaker, commented on it at one point), is an insufficient model.

 

This is exactly why I am opposed to a universal health care system. The quality of the military health care system is not even close to the civilian system. It's "free," but that doesn't make it safe, efficient, or effective.

 

ETA: I just realized that it is unclear from my post whether I speak from experience or hearsay. I was an adult military dependent for six years.

Edited October 18, 2008 by LizzyBee

[Zelda]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122428260748146061.html

 

"How Obama Would Stife Drug Innovation"

[lovemyboys]

:iagree:

 

What she said. Only I am in Sweden. And when I lived in the UK (both England and Scotland) it was the same.

 

And in Sweden mws are covered. Actually only high risk or complicated births are attended by doctors, everyone else sees mw. Although I think you have to pay if you want one for both prenatal care and the birth. I see a mw for my birth control. She is fantastic!

 

Can I ask -- we've heard in years past that your tax rates are pretty high. Is that still the case? Is dental covered? If you need surgery, how is that handled? thanks.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Many Americans know someone affiliated with the US Military or US Government. Within the US Government, there is something that is very much, if not identical to, socialized medicine.

 

And it doesn't work very well. At all. (unless you're a Congressman)

 

 

 

Er... well... it worked pretty well for me and my family. Still does. My family got the best of care while dh was serving, and it's better than what the majority of working Americans get since he got out.

 

I have my frustrations with regions and reimbursement rates, but it certainly works/has worked for us.

[LMA]

Medicare is close to "free" (although funded by your tax dollars) and, as I have posted previously in other threads, a person's care is based on what Medicare will and will not pay. I have my elderly mother living here. She has to go every three months to the doctor for "well" checkups or the primary doctor may not treat her. People on this board may complain about "well" checkups for their children, but when you complain to the doctor about Medicare "well" checkups (which only consists of a few questions), the doctor can refuse to treat you when you really need it. Hospitals and rehabs and equipment companies want you to take merchandise when you don't really need them so they can get their Medicare money, such as a stand-alone toilet chamber pot for your living room after a hip replacement. Tests are not based on your condition, but rather on what Medicare will pay for first. After working with the Medicare system, I am against a universal health care system. Plus I think it's one more step toward socialism. Next will be that we have to pay for someone else's iPod. (Yes, I have friends who think if you can have an iPod, then you have to buy one for someone else who can't afford it. Plus they think you have to apologize for making more money than someone else. They are dead serious.)

[TeacherZee]

I am one of those is very afraid of socialized medicine. I don't buy the argument that everything is 'fine' in countries that have it, so there is nothing to fear. The point is, things may be fine now, but you never know where they will go. Governments always have a way of over-reaching, and this is just to get a foot in the door into total control of your life and society in general. It might take one year, 5 years, maybe even 20 years, but it WILL happen. Again, all they need is a foot in the door to lay the groundwork and use the 'frog in boiling water' method. Once governments get a taste of power and control in any area, their thirst grows ever stronger and there is only one road they can take. Reason it away and defend it however you want, but those are the facts.

 

Actually it doesn't mean that at all. In the past 15 or so years we have seen an increase in our choice not a decrease. This is the case in both health care and education.

 

Can I ask -- we've heard in years past that your tax rates are pretty high. Is that still the case? Is dental covered? If you need surgery, how is that handled? thanks.

 

Taxes are done the following way:

 

Everyone pays 30-32% in local income tax (the difference is depending on where you live)

 

Anyone who earn between $3700/month - $5500/ month gets taxed an additional 20% on the amount ABOVE $3701 so not on the amount below

 

Anyone earning more than $5500/ month gets taxed an additional 25% on everything above $5500/ month.

 

Children under 18 get free health care and free dental care.

 

Adults over 18 pay a fee when they see the doctor/OT/Therapist etc (but not mw, we don't pay anything to see the mw) up to a maximum per 12 months of $120.

 

Adults pay a maximum of $240 per 12 months for medication. This can be done per a payment plan should you need it.

 

Dental is discounted in the following way:

Children and those under 20 get free dental (no matter what is getting done).

From 20-29 you get a discount at $40/year and a visit to my dentist costs $80

Between 30-74 you get a discount of $20/year

75+ you get a discount at $40/year.

Once you turn 65 you are eligible for a cap. (I don't know what this is at this point in time sorry)

If you have to have major work done you pay for it yourself up to $400. For procedures between $401-$2000 you get a 50% discount and for procedures over $2000 you get a discount of 85%. Dentist will have a payment plan so you can pay it off over a time period.

 

Every dentist will tell you up front what it will cost for your treatment.

 

Our taxes also pay for a lot of other excellent services. For example we don't pay tuition fees at university. I have access to an incredible library. They don't have a lot of books but they will do ILL for about $1.5 per book or buy the books for me. We have a learning centre in my village that will proctor university exams for me (I am doing grad school distance learning). Our Education system is pretty good. I wouldn't send my kids (if I had any) to the local school but we have school vouchers so I can send them to charter schools or private school for free. And those private and charter schools can have a religious nature.

 

Anything else you want to know feel free to ask.

[Rose in BC]

Can I ask -- we've heard in years past that your tax rates are pretty high. Is that still the case? Is dental covered? If you need surgery, how is that handled? thanks.

 

For example, my husband's employer covers dental insurance which pays for 90% of basic care and 50% of orthodontic care.

 

Surgery . . .all is covered. I had a hysterectomy two years ago. Saw a specialist many times over a few months. Had surgery, was hospitalized for 4 days . . . didn't pay a dime out of pocket. This is just one example.

 

I do not know the tax rates compared to where you live. We have federal and provincial taxes. We surely do pay taxes and probably more than I want to but I am thankful that I can phone my doctor any time one of my kids is sick and not have to worry if I can afford it. And at the end of the day I honestly don't know if my higher tax rates is worse than your insurance premiums?

[TeacherZee]

Oh yes sorry I missed that one. Surgery is completely covered (I think, at most it would be included in the $120 maximum, but I think it is covered as any tests that the doctor orders are completely covered). You would have to pay for things like TV in your room though:D

[Susie in CA]

Thanks for posting, Rose!

 

The same is true for the system in Austria as well.

 

Susie

[G5052]

Many Americans know someone affiliated with the US Military or US Government. Within the US Government, there is something that is very much, if not identical to, socialized medicine.

 

And it doesn't work very well. At all. (unless you're a Congressman)

 

 

 

DH is a federal government employee, and prior to children I worked for a state university system and the federal government, so we've always had that type of insurance. We currently have a PPO, and it works fine for us, which is saying something because DH has had serious, chronic health problems for six years now. In 2004, his bills before insurance were well over a million dollars. We still pay out of pocket quite a bit, but the federal insurance has kept him alive and working because it does pay the majority of his bills and I've learned to actively work with the billing departments to spread out our payments. We pick his doctors, and rarely need to see doctors out of the network. Only once did I feel that the insurance company was wrong in their ruling, but I also could see how they had clearly applied the rules in our plan booklet.

 

My concern though if they nationalize it is that DH could indeed be restricted from pursuing certain kinds of treatment and medications. The rules could get so tight that it wouldn't be the good deal that it is now.

[dawn of ns]

I am one of those is very afraid of socialized medicine.

 

Universal Healthcare does NOT equal socialized medicine. There needs to be a sticky on this or something becuase that seems to be the most common misperception in the whole discusson.

 

I don't buy the argument that everything is 'fine' in countries that have it, so there is nothing to fear. The point is, things may be fine now, but you never know where they will go. Governments always have a way of over-reaching, and this is just to get a foot in the door into total control of your life and society in general. It might take one year, 5 years, maybe even 20 years, but it WILL happen.

 

No. Point to a country where it HAS happened. None of this prophecy stuff. Find some real hard evidence and present it. You can even include the many countries with UHC that DON'T have socialized medicine like Canada.

 

but those are the facts.

 

Technically they're unsupported assertions. Nothing like facts.

[dawn of ns]

Did I mention that Universal Healthcare does NOT mean socialized medicine? :D

 

Seriously, this is the one thing most nay-sayers have got to purge from their thinking.

[jacqui in mo]

Some honest questions of those in universal health care. Is the price of health care rising or remaining steady? Are there any government price controls on health care? Are there limits to malpractice lawsuits for doctors/hospitals etc? Is there significant medical research & development going on in your country?

 

Hawaii just ended an attempt at Universal Health Care for children, mostly for budget reasons (which included too many people jumping on it when they could afford Health care on their own). Did Hawaii just not plan well? If a state like HA couldn't reasonably do this, it makes me really wonder whether the US could really do it.

[Heather in Savannah]

Rose, thank you for that.

 

Up front: I'm not in favor of the US having a national health care plan, largely because I believe removing choice from a system has a negative effect on quality and motivation. In the US, we hear about Canadians coming across the border to get better health care because there just aren't enough doctors and high-end treatment centers and folks waiting 4 years for their bypass surgery who come here and get it on their own tab. I don't expect that you know all these people, :) but is this at all true? Has Canada suffered a decrease in the quality of care under your system?

 

1. In Canada Universal health care, does not remove the paitent's choice. You can see whichever Dr. or treatment facility you wish....they are all covered.

2. There are some wait times for "elective" surgeries, i.e. cataract removal, etc. However, when it comes to urgent treatment treatment is managed appropriately. My BIL's father had his 2nd bypass operation a week after the surgeon(2nd opinion) said it could be done. The stories you hear are in the US media, and I am convinced are part of the "appeal to fear". I've been shot down for making this statement, but I can't help but wonder if the insurance companies are not at the bottom of some of this....they have the most to lose....they would be shut down if the government took over as the insurer.

3. Canada has had Universal healthcare for over 50 yrs., so there really is no way to answer your question "Is there a decrease in the quality of care under the system?" Even my parents who are in their 80's can't remember life before Universal healthcare.

 

I think you and the other posters are correct in their concern that the US would impliment a health care system like Medicare/Medicaid, because it is the model they know. These are not good systems, because the individual still has to deal with the government, and then restrictions are placed on their care. I would hope that they would look to Canad or Europe, and realize that they need to break healthcare down into smaller chunks. Having healthcare managed at the state level, with portability is the Canadian model.

 

Jill, healthcare is the biggest struggle for me, living in the USA. I have a serious pre-existing medical condition, and so we cannot qualify for private insurance policies.....my husband's work does not offer medical insurance. I worry about diminishing health, and how we are going to manage financially....I may have to return to Canada to live, on my own if that happens.

[TeacherZee]

Some honest questions of those in universal health care. Is the price of health care rising or remaining steady? Are there any government price controls on health care? Are there limits to malpractice lawsuits for doctors/hospitals etc? Is there significant medical research & development going on in your country?

 

Hawaii just ended an attempt at Universal Health Care for children, mostly for budget reasons (which included too many people jumping on it when they could afford Health care on their own). Did Hawaii just not plan well? If a state like HA couldn't reasonably do this, it makes me really wonder whether the US could really do it.

 

I don't know about the price for the government but for me it has gone up once in my lifetime. When they started charging for adults. I actually think this is good. It isn't that expensive but I feel that I contribute to my care. Does that make sense?

 

As to malpractice suits: The doctors are covered by an insurance policy from the government. There is a board that you have to submit your claim to within two years of the malpractice and they decide if you get compensation and also if the doctor (or other medical professional) should be given a censure or loose their licence. There is also a facility for health care professionals to get themselves investigated if they think that there has been something wrong in their handling of patients safety (this can be both specific or general).

 

Research and development: One of the largest (if not the largest) pharmaceutical company in the world, AstraZeneca, have one of their major R&D facilities here in Sweden, so yes there is plenty of R&D going on.

 

In addition to this there are several large teaching hospitals in the country where pioneering treatment is tried and researched. As late as in 2000 the Nobel Prize Winner in Medicine came from one of our University Hospitals. He won for his work on signals in the brain.

[Mom to Aly]

I think it would be amazing to have universal health care. I lost my first child at nearly 23 weeks of pregnancy. It turned out I had an incompetent cervix. After I had my second child, my dd, with a very complicated pregnancy, in bed from the 6th week on, a cerclage, 4 bouts with premature labor, in the hospital for the last 5 weeks, plus more complications, and a pregnancy costing, in total, $130,000, even though I cannot have any more children, I cannot get insurance while I am of "childbearing age", which is, for most companies, until 57 years old!!!!

 

If you have anyone in your family that has a chronic illness and you have to buy your own health insurance or work for a small business, forget health insurance. They will make it so high, you, or everyone in that business, will not be able to afford it. You could have been healthy all your life, as I had been, and they will still charge you more forever after. Or, if you have one year that is high, they will skyrocket your rates so that you cannot afford them anymore, and, for the next 5 years, everyone will see your rates, and charge you more.

 

If you are with a big company and have great rates, or if you have perfect health, great--but God forbid you ever have to worry about your health, a loved one's health, and you have to deal with the cost of health care, or a less than great plan; it can bankrupt you in a year or less!!!! When they talk about people choosing between food and meds, they are not kidding!

 

My mom, who taught school for all of her working career, retired with no medical plan--a public school teacher and they gave her NO MEDICAL PLAN!!! She has medicare and they cover very little for her, she spends more than half her retirement every month of meds because during a minor surgery she contracted MRSA, which nearly killed her. The hospital, or course, took no responsibility, so now, she is nearly crippled, can't live on her own, and spends so much on her meds every month it is shameful, and that is with medicare.

 

Before you criticize universal healthcare, you should look around at your family, look at where you get your healthcare, at the economy, and consider how secure your insurance plan really is. You never know when it can change, and what can happen to you.

[TraceyS/FL]

The stories you hear are in the US media, and I am convinced are part of the "appeal to fear". I've been shot down for making this statement, but I can't help but wonder if the insurance companies are not at the bottom of some of this....they have the most to lose....they would be shut down if the government took over as the insurer.

 

I want to say i have heard these type of stories first hand. I live in a huge retirement area, and have heard them from Canadians that winter here and one that my husband worked with. I also have an online friend whose Canadian DH won't be going back to Canada to practice when he finished school - he wouldn't be able to repay his student loans.

 

I'm interested in this as i have a child that will require lifelong treatment. Looking ahead to her future.

 

I'm just pretty sure that the mucked up system we have here in the US now will not allow for a universal system that actually works. To many people have their hands in the pockets of the health care system - and our needs as patients are NOT the ones being put first.

 

Thanks TeacherZee for sharing the actual dollars in your neck of the (cold) woods. That sounds fair - except that at our current wage - we'd be eating noodles paying 30-32% of our income in taxes (i should ask - are those US dollar amounts?)

[CLHCO]

Universal health care itself is not a hill I'm willing to die on, even though I lean pretty heavily towards libertarian in such views, personally. It's not the worst socialist construction ever thought up, and some would argue it's not even socialist.

 

It's the idea that #1 the same poor planning big spenders in Washington will plan it all out with so much paperwork you will not get to see a doctor until you've had a DNA scan and have completed your 25 pages of forms. Just watch. It may work in other countries but we'll screw it up. The wrong people will have their hands in the cookie jar and make a ton of money while others will wait 5 months to have a broken arm set. Yes, I'm a big, fat pessimist. I've seen FEMA at its finest and how the military health care works around here. I've seen where all the good ideas of congress have sent us all.

 

#2 we're broke. No, really broke. Not kind of broke. Not "we can pull from this place" broke. Broke. It hasn't set in but I have reason to believe we're broke.

 

Don't mistaken me for one who doesn't love my country. It's because I love it that I'm grumpy lately.

[TeacherZee]

Thanks TeacherZee for sharing the actual dollars in your neck of the (cold) woods. That sounds fair - except that at our current wage - we'd be eating noodles paying 30-32% of our income in taxes (i should ask - are those US dollar amounts?)

 

Those are US dollar amounts at the current exchange rate. I figured SEK would mean absolutely nothing to most people around here :D and it would just be easier for me to use Yahoo converter to convert them.

 

Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage as wages are negotiated centrally between the employers and the different unions. The latest figures I can find are from 2006 where the lowest wage for a 20 year old without any higher education was $1700/month. According to my dad (who is a local union boss) his union, which covers white collar workers, the lowest wage for a member in 2008 who has turned 18 is $1952/month.

 

In addition to this if you have children you will get for every child you have under the age of 16 (or until they turn 18 if they are in full time education) you get $140/month. In addition to this you get extra money if you have more children. If you have two children you get an extra $13/ month so two children =$293/month. With 3 children you get $486/month. With 4 children you get $744/month. for any subsequent children you get the $140 added onto the $744.

 

I know that 32% sounds like a lot but we have higher wages here as well so it works out as not so much. And if you don't have to go to the doctor or the dentist during the year you don't pay anything (apart from your taxes) to the doctor. No premium that needs to be paid no metter way

[Margaret in GA]

I think Universal Care like the one in Canada is an imperfect concept for us in America. Having said that, our current health care model is positively the worst one on the planet. I think that some how, some way we can come up with a great solution for us. After all, we have good old American Ingenuity.

 

Sometimes we like to refer to the past... you know, when we all took care of ourselves and didn't need insurance or government. What we forget is that in the good old days the most complicated procedures were tube ties and bone splints. I mean, modern medicine is complicated and *expensive*. And we all want the very best care. I know that I would demand all the tests available in the free world if something was wrong with one of my kids.

 

I do have insurance, thank God, but we had the scare of our lives a few months ago when we found out that my dh's secretary didn't pay our premiums for several months and we were cancelled. Thankfully, nothing major happened in the time between insurance or we might be bankrupt right now. And unable to get insurance for a pre-existing condition. I love the concept of non-government, but insurance companies like ours just wait around for mistakes so they can drop people or up their premiums.

 

Margaret

[Jenny in Atl]

 

Research and development: One of the largest (if not the largest) pharmaceutical company in the world, AstraZeneca, have one of their major R&D facilities here in Sweden, so yes there is plenty of R&D going on.

 

In addition to this there are several large teaching hospitals in the country where pioneering treatment is tried and researched. As late as in 2000 the Nobel Prize Winner in Medicine came from one of our University Hospitals. He won for his work on signals in the brain.

 

I always have wondered about the claim that socialized medicine will kill research. I wonder because my daughter's insulin is made in Germany and it is the product of a huge Danish company, one of the largest diabetes research companies in the world. Novo Nordisk.

 

The lastest Nobel prize for medicine just when to a German and two French researchers.

 

"Francoise Barre-Sinoussi and Luc Montagnier, both French researchers, were cited for their discovery of HIV, the human immunodeficiency virus which causes Aids.

 

Germany's Harald zur Hausen, of the German cancer research centre (Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum) in Heidelberg, was honoured for finding human papilloma viruses that cause cervical cancer, the second most common cancer among women."

[TeacherZee]

Ah ha I found it. If you are further interested in the Swedish Social Insurance I found it in English. This will have information on some of the benefits you get as a pensioner, parent, long term sick and if you have disabilities and other instances. It isn't as detailed as the Swedish version but there is some information at least.

[TraceyS/FL]

I"ve heard enough on your wages to know they are indeed higher (as are you prices - people in the Apple forums complain greatly about it being cheaper to fly to the states to buy a computer! LOL!!). It's interesting to read it all - i could use coverage like you have for my DD.... and I really really want a Saab 9-3 wagon like i sat in at Epcot (ok, really, i want the convertible). Alas, i'm pretty sure that i'd become a frozen popsicle, i don't do under 75 degrees well. My Swedish relatives would probably laugh at me huh?

 

I could only hope that if we do attempt such a system, that it involves a total rework of so many things, on so many levels, and we truly study worldwide what works and doesn't. And find a way to translate that into the mess we have here......

[ekarl2]

 

My mom, who taught school for all of her working career, retired with no medical plan--a public school teacher and they gave her NO MEDICAL PLAN!!! She has medicare and they cover very little for her, she spends more than half her retirement every month of meds because during a minor surgery she contracted MRSA, which nearly killed her. The hospital, or course, took no responsibility, so now, she is nearly crippled, can't live on her own, and spends so much on her meds every month it is shameful, and that is with medicare.

 

 

Mom to Aly,

 

I recommend you go to http://www.pparx.org. This is the clearinghouse for the drug company prescription assistance. I'm sure your mom could get some help with her meds here. Drug companies don't want price caps or socialized medicine imposed on them, so it is in their best interest to help those who can't afford the meds get them. This website has info on thousands of prescriptions and their toll-free assistants can answer all your questions. All you need is a list of her drugs and basic info (income, etc.)

 

blessings,

Erin

[Melinda in VT]

Rose, I posted on another thread about my older sister who is a nurse in Northern NH. Fully 40% of their patients, she works for an endocrinologist, are Canadian.

 

I'm curious about this. Are the patients paying for this care out-of-pocket? Are they reimbursed? Are they going to NH because they can't get appropriate care in Canada, or is it just a matter of geography? (In other words, does your sister work for the endo closest to the Canadians, even though they have to cross a border to get there?)

[NevadaRabbit]

1. In Canada Universal health care, does not remove the paitent's choice. You can see whichever Dr. or treatment facility you wish....they are all covered.

2. There are some wait times for "elective" surgeries, i.e. cataract removal, etc. However, when it comes to urgent treatment treatment is managed appropriately. My BIL's father had his 2nd bypass operation a week after the surgeon(2nd opinion) said it could be done. The stories you hear are in the US media, and I am convinced are part of the "appeal to fear". I've been shot down for making this statement, but I can't help but wonder if the insurance companies are not at the bottom of some of this....they have the most to lose....they would be shut down if the government took over as the insurer.

3. Canada has had Universal healthcare for over 50 yrs., so there really is no way to answer your question "Is there a decrease in the quality of care under the system?" Even my parents who are in their 80's can't remember life before Universal healthcare.

 

I think you and the other posters are correct in their concern that the US would impliment a health care system like Medicare/Medicaid, because it is the model they know. These are not good systems, because the individual still has to deal with the government, and then restrictions are placed on their care. I would hope that they would look to Canad or Europe, and realize that they need to break healthcare down into smaller chunks. Having healthcare managed at the state level, with portability is the Canadian model.

 

Jill, healthcare is the biggest struggle for me, living in the USA. I have a serious pre-existing medical condition, and so we cannot qualify for private insurance policies.....my husband's work does not offer medical insurance. I worry about diminishing health, and how we are going to manage financially....I may have to return to Canada to live, on my own if that happens.

 

Heather, thank you for a very reasoned answer. :)

 

re #1: choice IS gone. You're in the universal plan or you have no coverage, right?

 

I am deeply concerned at our federal gov't's ability to manage something like this. They haven't proven themselves to be very good at managing ... much.

[TeacherZee]

I always have wondered about the claim that socialized medicine will kill research. I wonder because my daughter's insulin is made in Germany and it is the product of a huge Danish company, one of the largest diabetes research companies in the world. Novo Nordisk.

 

The lastest Nobel prize for medicine just when to a German and two French researchers.

 

"Francoise Barre-Sinoussi and Luc Montagnier, both French researchers, were cited for their discovery of HIV, the human immunodeficiency virus which causes Aids.

 

Germany's Harald zur Hausen, of the German cancer research centre (Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum) in Heidelberg, was honoured for finding human papilloma viruses that cause cervical cancer, the second most common cancer among women."

 

Yeah we haven't seen any death in research. As a matter of fact medical research is a point of pride here.

 

I"ve heard enough on your wages to know they are indeed higher (as are you prices - people in the Apple forums complain greatly about it being cheaper to fly to the states to buy a computer! LOL!!). It's interesting to read it all - i could use coverage like you have for my DD.... and I really really want a Saab 9-3 wagon like i sat in at Epcot (ok, really, i want the convertible). Alas, i'm pretty sure that i'd become a frozen popsicle, i don't do under 75 degrees well. My Swedish relatives would probably laugh at me huh?

 

I could only hope that if we do attempt such a system, that it involves a total rework of so many things, on so many levels, and we truly study worldwide what works and doesn't. And find a way to translate that into the mess we have here......

 

Yeah the cold is not my friend. But right now I need the universal health care and the free education so I put on an extra pair of socks :D:D

 

Yes I think it requires a complete overhaul and I don't think it will happen during an Obama presidency but I think the work needs to start somewhere and at some point. I think the one point we all agree on here is that the American system is broken. Where we disagree is on how to fix it.

 

And yes we have problems here too. The high prices of goods are not one of my favourite things (shhh...I do a lot of my shopping online outside the country, and when I come to the states...especially the last few years with the exchange rate). We joke in my family that my dads taxes pay for what the rest of us use :D My dad falls in the highest tax bracket and my mum in the lowest. Right now there are three of us in university education with government grants :D We use the taxes we pay:)

[nmoira]

 

re #1: choice IS gone. You're in the universal plan or you have no coverage, right?

Umm, yeah, but it's not like Medicaid in that it's impossible to find doctors who take it; with very few exceptions, they all take it. However, not everyone residing in Canada is covered under provincial plans (typically those people who have not yet achieved minimum residence requirements) and not all procedures are covered under provincial plans. For example, cosmetic procedures would not be covered in most cases (though reconstructive surgery would be). People who are not eligible can still pay for medical care, either directly or through private insurance.

[LizzyBee]

Taxes are done the following way:

 

Everyone pays 30-32% in local income tax (the difference is depending on where you live)

 

Anyone who earn between $3700/month - $5500/ month gets taxed an additional 20% on the amount ABOVE $3701 so not on the amount below

 

Anyone earning more than $5500/ month gets taxed an additional 25% on everything above $5500/ month.

 

 

Holy cow, the top tax bracket is 77%. Wow.

 

Someone earning $3700/month ($44,400/year) would pay $13,320 - $14,208 in local tax. In the States, a typical married couple with income of $44,400 a year, a home with a mortgage, and a couple of kids pays nothing or very little for federal and state income taxes.

 

Out of curiosity, do you also have a federal income tax? Sales tax? Property tax? Gas tax? Or do you just pay the one tax and then you're done?