More Parents Choose Homeschooling

[HomeMum]

Increasing numbers of American schoolchildren are cracking the books at home as parents seek to provide a quality education in a strong moral atmosphere — something that is fading fast in the nation’s public schools.

Between the failure of Common Core; the pervasiveness of a liberal agenda expressed in the rise of LGBT clubs and activities on school grounds; and the fight against prayer and even the Pledge of Allegiance in schools — some parents feel that public school is the wrong place for their kids to spend the bulk of their day.

    “An elite few have overtaken many of the highest positions in the land that influence policy, law and curriculum.â€

Faith in educational excellence in public schools seems to be waning, too.

In the 2015-16 school year, home-schooling grew in Florida at its biggest rate in a decade. “We see all the emails from parents: ‘I just don’t want my kids exposed to Common Core,’†Karen Harmon, chairwoman of a Florida homeschool support group, told The Florida Times-Union. “Their thought process is that it’s dumbing down the school systems and making all students average, but a lot of parents want their child to excel.â€...

Read more: http://www.lifezette.com/momzette/more-parents-choose-home-schooling/

[Guest]

This is going to end well...

[bettyandbob]

shockingly, liberal agenda was not a reason I considered when I chose to homeschool 

 

Anything else I could say in response to this "article" would probably violate a board rule or two. 

[HS Mom in NC]

So all of my LGBT, liberal and secular homeschooling friends are my imaginary friends? But they seem so real!
 

[bolt.]

I suppose that really depends on which "morals" one expects from a public education system.

 

For me, I expect things like common decency, equality and inclusion, and values that cluster around respect for individual rights, freedoms.

 

But that might just be my 'liberal agenda' talking.

 

What "morals" are the ones that seem (to some) to be missing?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

More families of LGBT children are choosing to homeschool because of unresolved bullying. More families are choosing to homeschool in areas where an extreme right wing, Christian agenda pervades the school culture to the point of ostracizing children from other kinds of homes, in spite of laws that were meant to prevent this.

 

More secular families, liberal families, and families who are not extreme right wing Christian report difficulty finding friends and support in their local homeschool community.

 

I don't have an inflammatory article to cite. I'm just generally referring to hundreds of posts made on these forums, where diverse people are welcome. People homeschool for lots of reasons. Some do it to get away from people they don't like. Others do it to stay safe from people who don't like them. That's why neutrality toward issues makes for better relationships on a homeschooling forum...we all do share the big thing, which is trying to make hs'ing the solution to our own families' unique situations.

[Code Lyoko]

At least from what I have seen locally the reason to homeschool is incredibly varied and only a tiny, tiny fraction chose homeschooling because of some sort of conservative moral concern. That certainly wasn't part of my thought process.

[UCF612]

We chose homeschooling for health reasons and because we wanted to freedom of schedule.  Plus it is kinda fun.  

[MistyMountain]

Wow that article is something else with their opinions in what the stats mean! I could say more but probably should refrain.

[shawthorne44]

This one linked in the posted article is interesting.  

http://www.lifezette.com/momzette/child-wants-home-schooled/

 

I would have LOVED to have been homeschooled, so this jumps out at me.  

[foxbridgeacademy]

This is going to end well...

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:    :hurray:

 

 

 

One of the reasons WE HS is because we are too liberal for the area we live in, and I got tired of my kids having to explain to other kids that no you don't HAVE to go to church (it's not a real law.... as in yes, you're parents are lying to you) and no we're not going to Hell because there is no such place, TYVM.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[Guest]

Oh I know people who cite common core and district policy for their pull outs, but they're definitely a minority and most don't keep homeschooling more than a year or two, probably because they haven't solidified in their minds a way to get the outcome they want at home - it takes a surprising amount of energy and intentionality and just being upset by local conditions doesn't mean one can teach well.

 

There are certainly parents who do a bang up job and pulled kids out over these sets of concerns, but most of our homeschoolers locally, even the ones like me who DO see problems all over with the district, have other reasons for home educating than *just* that.

[Corraleno]

Increasing numbers of American schoolchildren are cracking the books at home as parents seek to provide a quality education in a strong moral atmosphere — something that is fading fast in the nation’s public schools.

 

Between the failure of Common Core; the pervasiveness of a liberal agenda expressed in the rise of LGBT clubs and activities on school grounds; and the fight against prayer and even the Pledge of Allegiance in schools — some parents feel that public school is the wrong place for their kids to spend the bulk of their day.

 

    “An elite few have overtaken many of the highest positions in the land that influence policy, law and curriculum.â€

 

Faith in educational excellence in public schools seems to be waning, too.

 

In the 2015-16 school year, home-schooling grew in Florida at its biggest rate in a decade. “We see all the emails from parents: ‘I just don’t want my kids exposed to Common Core,’†Karen Harmon, chairwoman of a Florida homeschool support group, told The Florida Times-Union. “Their thought process is that it’s dumbing down the school systems and making all students average, but a lot of parents want their child to excel.â€...

 

Read more: http://www.lifezette.com/momzette/more-parents-choose-home-schooling/

 

This whole post is hilarious. You're citing/linking to an opinion piece by a fellow conservative Christian mom, on a very political right-wing website, who cites statistics that don't even back up her claims, and whose own authoritative "quotes" come from anonymous "commenters" on a news article ("The elite few...").

 

So the big story here is that a certain percentage of homeschoolers (which in fact does not seem to be a growing percentage; if anything, the number of homeschoolers citing religion as their primary reason is shrinking not growing) do not like the fact that public schools do not teach a conservative Christian agenda, and therefore choose to teach this worldview at home.

 

Was this news to you? Did you helpfully link to this very political, conservative Christian, anti-gay, proTrump website in case your fellow boardies were unaware that some homeschoolers share those beliefs?

Edited November 8, 2016 by Corraleno

[Spy Car]

Increasing numbers of American schoolchildren are cracking the books at home as parents seek to provide a quality education in a strong moral atmosphere — something that is fading fast in the nation’s public schools.

 

Between the failure of Common Core; the pervasiveness of a liberal agenda expressed in the rise of LGBT clubs and activities on school grounds; and the fight against prayer and even the Pledge of Allegiance in schools — some parents feel that public school is the wrong place for their kids to spend the bulk of their day.

 

    “An elite few have overtaken many of the highest positions in the land that influence policy, law and curriculum.â€

 

Faith in educational excellence in public schools seems to be waning, too.

 

In the 2015-16 school year, home-schooling grew in Florida at its biggest rate in a decade. “We see all the emails from parents: ‘I just don’t want my kids exposed to Common Core,’†Karen Harmon, chairwoman of a Florida homeschool support group, told The Florida Times-Union. “Their thought process is that it’s dumbing down the school systems and making all students average, but a lot of parents want their child to excel.â€...

 

Read more: http://www.lifezette.com/momzette/more-parents-choose-home-schooling/

 

Common Core is not a failure, and bigotry isn't cool or an example of strong morality.

 

Hate-filled homes are not good places for children to spend their days.

 

Bill

[shawthorne44]

We have a much higher than usual percentage of homeschoolers in my little town.   A vast majority of them will claim it is for religious reasons.  But, when you get to really know them it is because the local schools really suck.  Basically anyone that could possibly homeschool, does.  The problem is that if you say that as your reason then someone gets offended because their close relative works at one of the local schools and you have just insulted their family and they will never forgive you.  And, they will all hear about what you said.  The fact that a few years ago the state had to take over the schools just makes them more touchy about it.  

 

It took me awhile to be smart enough to figure that out.  But I was lucky in that I could truthfully say even when we lived in (school district that people rave about but isn't that great), DD was going to be homeschooled.  So, I didn't accidentally offend anyone.  

[Code Lyoko]

This whole post is hilarious. You're citing/linking to an opinion piece by a fellow conservative Christian mom, on a very political right-wing website, who cites statistics that don't even back up her claims, and whose own authoritative "quotes" come from anonymous "commenters" on a news article ("The elite few...").

 

So the big story here is that a certain percentage of homeschoolers (which in fact does not seem to be a growing percentage; if anything, the number of homeschoolers citing religion as their primary reason is shrinking not growing) do not like the fact that public schools do not teach a conservative Christian agenda, and therefore choose to teach this worldview at home.

 

Was this news to you? Did you helpfully link to this political website in case your fellow boardies were shockingly unaware of the fact that some homeschoolers are conservative, anti-gay, Trump-supporting Christians?

I agree with much of what you posted, but, FWIW, I don't find this last comment any more helpful than the article itself, TBH.  

 

Although my post is probably not any more helpful than this thread will almost certainly end up being, I will point out that there are quite a number of Christians that are not anti-gay and quite a few who are not Trump supporters, either.  And there are quite a few Christians in our tiny local homeschooling community that are not anti-gay, are not Trump supporters and did not pull their children out because of a concern over a lack of "traditional conservative morality" in the local schools.  Their reasons are varied, as I suspect is true of many homeschoolers, including Christian homeschoolers.  I think there is plenty of room in the Universe for all kinds of homeschoolers.

 

Not that it should really matter to anyone but me and my family but I am a Christian.  I am not anti-gay.  I am not a Trump supporter.  And I pulled my kids out because they have learning challenges that the school, despite its best efforts, could not help them with.  "Morality" never even crossed my mind.  The survival of my children emotionally and academically did.  So what?  My reasons are mine.  Others have other reasons.  So far I am seeing a trend towards a wider variety of situations where people choose to homeschool, not just because of "morality", at least for our local area.  And I wish all of them the best.  Homeschooling can be quite challenging, whatever the reason for choosing that path.

 

Why does this need to be divisive?  How are articles like this helpful?  Or accurate?  I just don't find them to be so and in fact I find them to cause division within and without the homeschooling community.

[Corraleno]

I agree with much of what you posted, but, FWIW, I don't find this last comment any more helpful than the article itself, TBH.  

 

Although my post is probably not any more helpful than this thread will almost certainly end up being, I will point out that there are quite a number of Christians that are not anti-gay and quite a few who are not Trump supporters, either.  And there are quite a few Christians in our tiny local homeschooling community that are not anti-gay, are not Trump supporters and did not pull their children out because of a concern over a lack of "traditional conservative morality" in the local schools.  Their reasons are varied, as I suspect is true of many homeschoolers, including Christian homeschoolers.  I think there is plenty of room in the Universe for all kinds of homeschoolers.

 

Not that it should really matter to anyone but me and my family but I am a Christian.  I am not anti-gay.  I am not a Trump supporter.  And I pulled my kids out because they have learning challenges that the school, despite its best efforts, could not help them with.  "Morality" never even crossed my mind.  The survival of my children emotionally and academically did.  So what?  My reasons are mine.  Others have other reasons.  So far I am seeing a trend towards a wider variety of situations where people choose to homeschool, not just because of "morality", at least for our local area.  And I wish all of them the best.  Homeschooling can be quite challenging, whatever the reason for choosing that path.

 

Why does this need to be divisive?  How are articles like this helpful?  Or accurate?  I just don't find them to be so and in fact I find them to cause division within and without the homeschooling community.

 

I didn't mean to imply that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay or Trump supporters — I know lots that aren't. My kids attend a coop that rents space from an awesome church that does a ton of community service and has a rainbow flag on their sign saying "Everyone is welcomed and valued here." The comment was specifically directed at the website she linked, which is explicitly conservative Christian, anti-gay, and proTrump.

 

ETA: I edited my previous post to make it clear that I was referring to the website, not Christians in general.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Corraleno

[Code Lyoko]

I didn't mean to imply that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay or Trump supporters — I know lots that aren't. My kids attend a coop that rents space from an awesome church that does a ton of community service and has a rainbow flag on their sign saying "Everyone is welcomed and valued here." The comment was specifically directed at the website she linked, which is an explicitly conservative Christian proTrump website.

Ah, I understand.  :)

[Happy2BaMom]

 

In the 2015-16 school year, home-schooling grew in Florida at its biggest rate in a decade. “We see all the emails from parents: ‘I just don’t want my kids exposed to Common Core,’†Karen Harmon, chairwoman of a Florida homeschool support group, told The Florida Times-Union. “Their thought process is that it’s dumbing down the school systems and making all students average, but a lot of parents want their child to excel.â€...

 

 

What a joke. I've been homeschooling for 8 years and the main thing I've observed is that the vast majority of "homeschools" are getting dumbed down. Taught a coop class last year where half the kids where unable to even write a single descriptive sentence when given a simple data chart (class was grades 4-6).  Situation here is so bad in our view that we will have ds, 8th grade, attend public high school part time next year. The school is actually very good, plus ds will be exposed to kids who perform at a higher level.

[....]

Be careful of what you read online.  There are other reasons parents homeschool besides sheltering them.

 

Their kid has a special need- autism, ADHD, an LD.  I have met a lot of people over the years homeschooling kids with autism.

 

Some kids are having health problems and need to be at home.

 

A lot of people are homeschooling gifted kids.  That's why we are homeschooling.  There was no way the school was going to be able to meet my kids' needs.  My oldest daughter has sensory issues and, when she was little, could barely make it through a day of school.  She was constantly being sent home.  One of my kids in particular would've been a serious troublemaker from boredom.  My 11 year-old is working at a high school level in a particular subject and I have to pay out of my pocket for someone to work with her.  There is no way our school district would've been able to accommodate that. 

[....]

What a joke. I've been homeschooling for 8 years and the main thing I've observed is that the vast majority of "homeschools" are getting dumbed down.

 

 

Hmmm... We've also homeschooled for about 7-8 years.  I'm not seeing dumbing down, but I'm seeing rigidity/lack of creativity in new homeschoolers that's kind of freaking me out.  From conversations with younger parents around here considering homeschooling, they want a computer program that covers everything the public schools cover and the kid can do it completely on their own.  At activities, I've also witnessed...this is hard to describe...like a rigid crankiness when a small child doesn't get the right answer in their workbook or doesn't want to fill out a workbook page.  I get the feeling the parents aren't enjoying teaching their kid, the kid isn't enjoying it either because of how rigid the parent is being and buying a workbook program wasn't a good fit for the kid.

 

If the parents would relax a little and teach the kid in front of them and not the curriculum, it would be ok.  (Trying not to be judgmental here, but it's hard to watch.)

 

I wonder if it has to do with how well all these curriculum companies market their stuff.   :glare:  

 

At this point in time where my oldest kids are (high school), anyone who is not a homeschool magician has put their kids back in school.  

[HomeAgain]

Hmmm... We've also homeschooled for about 7-8 years.  I'm not seeing dumbing down, but I'm seeing rigidity/lack of creativity in new homeschoolers that's kind of freaking me out.  From conversations with younger parents around here considering homeschooling, they want a computer program that covers everything the public schools cover and the kid can do it completely on their own.  At activities, I've also witnessed...this is hard to describe...like a rigid crankiness when a small child doesn't get the right answer in their workbook or doesn't want to fill out a workbook page.  I get the feeling the parents aren't enjoying teaching their kid, the kid isn't enjoying it either because of how rigid the parent is being and buying a workbook program wasn't a good fit for the kid.

 

If the parents would relax a little and teach the kid in front of them and not the curriculum, it would be ok.  (Trying not to be judgmental here, but it's hard to watch.)

 

I wonder if it has to do with how well all these curriculum companies market their stuff.   :glare:

 

At this point in time where my oldest kids are (high school), anyone who is not a homeschool magician has put their kids back in school.  

 

I'm starting to see a lot of this, too.  Some of it is first kid jitters (i.e. making sure they're doing it right) but a lot....it seems to be a byproduct of marketing from schools like K-12 and even Easy-Peasy.  When I remarked to a mom of a 14yo that maybe, maybe 45 minutes of worksheets wasn't enough for a high school education level, I was blasted.

 

The newer folks ask questions about how their "visual" learner can get started - name all the computer based curricula you know.

 

I used to think it was this specific area - previous homes we've had came with the push for high education, high involvement - but now I'm not so sure. 

[Happy2BaMom]

Hmmm... We've also homeschooled for about 7-8 years.  I'm not seeing dumbing down, but I'm seeing rigidity/lack of creativity in new homeschoolers that's kind of freaking me out.  From conversations with younger parents around here considering homeschooling, they want a computer program that covers everything the public schools cover and the kid can do it completely on their own.  At activities, I've also witnessed...this is hard to describe...like a rigid crankiness when a small child doesn't get the right answer in their workbook or doesn't want to fill out a workbook page.  I get the feeling the parents aren't enjoying teaching their kid, the kid isn't enjoying it either because of how rigid the parent is being and buying a workbook program wasn't a good fit for the kid.

 

If the parents would relax a little and teach the kid in front of them and not the curriculum, it would be ok.  (Trying not to be judgmental here, but it's hard to watch.)

 

I wonder if it has to do with how well all these curriculum companies market their stuff.   :glare:

 

At this point in time where my oldest kids are (high school), anyone who is not a homeschool magician has put their kids back in school.  

 

My observation is that many parents no longer want to make or take the time and energy to truly teach their child(ren) - instead they want something or someone else to do it for them....(and since "anything's better than public school!", they just need to find the right program in which to dump the kid). The "dumbing down" comes as a result of making that choice, because many children don't learn well in those type of situations.

 

Separate data point: we also participate in a few public school enrichment classes offered to homeschoolers. This particular program is large - about 300 students - and students there are required to take the MAP tests (national) for reading and math. I worked for this program for a while, and helped to distribute the test results last year as one of my tasks. More than 1/3 of all students scored below the 40%ile in one or both subjects. I mean, think about that....we're talking scoring below the 40th percentile of AVERAGE public school students. I don't know how many were between the 40th & 50th level.

 

I'm sure others will jump in here explaining how it's all due to learning disabilities and test bias, etc etc. Yes, there are many academic all-stars that are homeschooled. But, in my neck of the woods, they are the definite minority and it's gotten noticably worse in the 8 years I've been here. 

[....]

..it seems to be a byproduct of marketing from schools like K-12 and even Easy-Peasy.  When I remarked to a mom of a 14yo that maybe, maybe 45 minutes of worksheets wasn't enough for a high school education level, I was blasted.

 

 

I've also noticed most of the marketing lately is geared towards being easy and hands-off for the parent.

 

Edited to add:  I'm worried after the 45 minutes of worksheets, it isn't learning is an atmosphere/a life.  It's Xbox Time or something like that.  (And I'm saying this as someone with a teenage son who loves xbox.)

Edited November 9, 2016 by Evanthe

[Happy2BaMom]

I've also noticed most of the marketing lately is geared towards being easy and hands-off for the parent.

 

Edited to add:  I'm worried after the 45 minutes of worksheets, it isn't learning is an atmosphere/a life.  It's Xbox Time or something like that.  (And I'm saying this as someone with a teenage son who loves xbox.)

 

Unfortunately, stories of educational neglect abound on Homeschoolers Anonymous. Some of these kids are homeschooled through high school and "graduate" without enough of an education to be able to go on to anything else. It's sad. 

 

I am a huge fan of homeschooling (as I mentioned, 8 years now), but in too many instances it is not turning out educated students, nor are the the homeschooling parents demonstrating any signficantly-better thinking skills than ps teachers (to link back to the OP, declaring that you don't want your child "exposed to Common Core" could be Exhibit A in "How to Demonstrate Complete Lack of Critical Thought". Common Core is not a virus; it is a set of standards/goals for different subjects. As with any goal, the strategies to reach that goal may be helpful or harmful in implementation.) 

[Bluegoat]

It seems to me some of these parents are people who would not have homeschooled in the past.  Being told it is easy is probably part of it, but I also wonder if it isn't a factor that there public school options are becoming worse and  forcing them to take their kids out.  Either academically, or the social environment, or other things.

[shawthorne44]

To be fair to those that are homeschooling because of Common Core, when the local school says, "We have to do X because of Common Core." When X is something that the parent really really doesn't like.  Then it is reasonable for the parents to say that they don't like Common Core.  

[MamaBearTeacher]

Parents homeschool for all sorts of reasons and as it becomes more common, known and even trendy, in some circles, even more people will do it. Then maybe after a while there will be a plateau.

[luuknam]

Separate data point: we also participate in a few public school enrichment classes offered to homeschoolers. This particular program is large - about 300 students - and students there are required to take the MAP tests (national) for reading and math. I worked for this program for a while, and helped to distribute the test results last year as one of my tasks. More than 1/3 of all students scored below the 40%ile in one or both subjects. I mean, think about that....we're talking scoring below the 40th percentile of AVERAGE public school students. I don't know how many were between the 40th & 50th level.

 

I'm failing to see the problem, unless you mistyped a number. Based on what you're saying, the homeschoolers in your area are still outperforming the public schools (1/3 under the 40th percentile is better than the 2/5 that by definition are under the 40th percentile - plus, some of those 1/3 are scoring over the 40th percentile in one of the two subjects, whereas surely the same thing is true for public school students, which means that MORE than 2/5 of public school students are scoring below the 40th percentile on one or both subjects).

Edited November 9, 2016 by luuknam

[Guest2]

Seems like most people who feel that the mainstream educational system doesn't work for them would homeschool. I would think that would definitely include the most liberal as well as the most conservative, the most religious and the least.

[mamiof5]

There are so many different reasons why families chose to homeschool. I think it's hard to deter why most parents do it? And lots of factors play in that decision. I am sure that article reflects part of the homeschooling population...but I doubt it's "most".

[Slache]

New homeschooler here. I've known several homeschool families and all but one of them has utterly failed their children in education. I'm not being judgemental but these are adults that cannot write or do basic math. They can't spell, they don't know anything about grammar, and their parents never covered science or history because they didn't have the time. I believe if not for the hive, and several books I have read I would be too rigid. I would probably be using a full abeka curriculum a year ahead. This would make my son absolutely miserable.

[MistyMountain]

My observation is that many parents no longer want to make or take the time and energy to truly teach their child(ren) - instead they want something or someone else to do it for them....(and since "anything's better than public school!", they just need to find the right program in which to dump the kid). The "dumbing down" comes as a result of making that choice, because many children don't learn well in those type of situations.

 

Separate data point: we also participate in a few public school enrichment classes offered to homeschoolers. This particular program is large - about 300 students - and students there are required to take the MAP tests (national) for reading and math. I worked for this program for a while, and helped to distribute the test results last year as one of my tasks. More than 1/3 of all students scored below the 40%ile in one or both subjects. I mean, think about that....we're talking scoring below the 40th percentile of AVERAGE public school students. I don't know how many were between the 40th & 50th level.

 

I'm sure others will jump in here explaining how it's all due to learning disabilities and test bias, etc etc. Yes, there are many academic all-stars that are homeschooled. But, in my neck of the woods, they are the definite minority and it's gotten noticably worse in the 8 years I've been here.

I fail to see the issue with this very normal sounding distribution of scores.

[Charlie]

Between the failure of Common Core; the pervasiveness of a liberal agenda expressed in the rise of LGBT clubs and activities on school grounds; and the fight against prayer and even the Pledge of Allegiance in schools — some parents feel that public school is the wrong place for their kids to spend the bulk of their day.

 

OP, does this reflect your beliefs? I ask because I wonder why you wouldn't support safe places for gay kids in school to come together with others who understand and share similar problems, can give advice, support, and extend friendship to those who often feel isolated, alone, and frightened.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Charlie

[Happy2BaMom]

I fail to see the issue with this very normal sounding distribution of scores.

 

 

Ummmm, isn't one of the main points of homeschooling supposed to be that it's better than a (supposedly) failing public school system? Isn't the "fact" that homeschoolers (supposedly) regularly outperform public school students trotted out ad nauseum as a reason to homeschool? I personally never found the "well, we're no worse than the awful public school sysem" to be a valid excuse for failing to undereducate a child, but whatever. 

 

The OP included a quote about parents wanting to homeschool so that their child might "excel"...my point is relevant in that there are a lot of homeschoolers who are not exceling and who are not outperforming the average public school student in basic skills. 

[Happy2BaMom]

I'm failing to see the problem, unless you mistyped a number. Based on what you're saying, the homeschoolers in your area are still outperforming the public schools (1/3 under the 40th percentile is better than the 2/5 that by definition are under the 40th percentile - plus, some of those 1/3 are scoring over the 40th percentile in one of the two subjects, whereas surely the same thing is true for public school students, which means that MORE than 2/5 of public school students are scoring below the 40th percentile on one or both subjects).

 

Again, the point is that homeschool is supposed to be so much better than public school. So 33% of homeschool students are under the 40th percentile, versus 39% in the public school...an improvement of 6%.....not very impressive, especially given that homeschool students are being taught in a small-group environment at home, as opposed to a large underfunded classroom comprised of students with widely-varying languages, skill levels, and teacher qualifications. 

 

I recognize I'm going after the sacred cow of 'how fabulous homeschooling always is' but I find it interesting that low standards have become so acceptable in the homeschooling world.

 

And with that, I'm done with the thread. I have enough experience on this board to know where this subject tends to go - people jumping up and down to defend homeschooling against those who point out that there are significant problems out there.   

[HS Mom in NC]

The "anything but [brick and mortar] public school" has two distinct sides to that coin.  On one extreme you get the do nothing parent who is neglectful in academics (intentionally or unintentionally) because they believe that any day at home is better than being in any ps, and on the other you get the person who wants their kid learning anywhere but in a brick and mortar school and that includes someone other than the parent teaching the kid online or in a class for homeschooled kids.
 

Remember that everyone who pulls a kid out of ps is someone for whom homeschooling wasn't their first choice. Some understand that homeschooling is a potentially good academic opportunity if the parent is diligent and conscientious, and others just rest in the fact that their kid isn't in ps so everything is going to be just fine no matter what they do as long as the kid is at home.  And that's where you get problem homeschoolers.  The conscientious homeschoolers (whether it was their first choice or not) understand that homeschooling itself doesn't guarantee academic success.  Homeschooling is a route that has the potential to lead to academic success or academic mediocrity or academic failure, depending on how the homeschooling parent does their job and that the kid is a decent fit for homeschooling.

 

[Wheres Toto]

Sometimes homeschooling is better, sometimes it's not.  Sometimes parents are doing it because they think they can do it better than the public schools, sometimes they have other reasons.  

 

Honestly, I see much more of the "other" reasons than that it's guaranteed to be superior.  Most of the people I know homeschooling, it's because their kids have some sort of "special needs" - either gifted, or 2E, or learning differences, or physical illnesses, or allergies, or struggles - that lead them to homeschool.

 

I also see very little of the - protect them from the liberal agenda - homeschoolers.  Thankfully.

[luuknam]

Remember that everyone who pulls a kid out of ps is someone for whom homeschooling wasn't their first choice.

 

Not everyone. Some of us put a kid in school due to life circumstances or w/e even though we would've preferred to homeschool, and then pulled the kid out when life circumstances allowed.

 

Again, the point is that homeschool is supposed to be so much better than public school. So 33% of homeschool students are under the 40th percentile, versus 39% in the public school...an improvement of 6%.....

 

Again, it's more than 39% that scores under the 40th percentile on one or both of the two tests, as there will be plenty of kids who will score under the 40th on one, but above it on the other. So, it's more than a 6% improvement.

 

Also, not every homeschooler uses public school enrichment classes, so I have no idea what the breakdown on that is.

 

Finally, who says homeschool is supposed to be so much better than public school? Really, as long as homeschoolers don't do worse than the public school, I don't see a problem. I have no obligation to make sure my kids are at the 99th percentile. As long as my kids are getting at least the education they'd get if they were in public school, I'm doing okay by them (and I don't mean score above the 50th percentile - I mean at or above w/e percentile they'd probably score at if they were in public school, based on their potential and the quality of the local school).

 

ETA: To be clear, if the local school was really lousy and I'd expect my kid to score at, say, only the 10th percentile there, I'd definitely aim to help my kid learn more than that. But, I don't think you can judge someone for their decision to homeschool if their kid, realistically, isn't worse off in their hands than in the local public school's hands. I'd be more bothered about someone whose kid would likely score 95th percentile at the public school a 50th percentile homeschool education than I'd be by someone giving a 10th percentile public school kid a 10th percentile homeschool education. IOW, do no harm. (this aside from that there's more to education than test scores, of course)

Edited November 9, 2016 by luuknam

[Corraleno]

OP, does this reflect your beliefs? I ask because I wonder why you wouldn't support safe places for gay kids in school to come together with others who understand and share similar problems, can give advice, support, and extend friendship to those who often feel isolated, alone, and frightened.

 

The website she linked to is vehemently anti-gay, with headlines like "Masculinity in Peril on Gender-Bending Campuses" and articles warning parents that school children are being indoctrinated in the "LGBT agenda."

[Charlie]

The website she linked to is vehemently anti-gay, with headlines like "Masculinity in Peril on Gender-Bending Campuses" and articles warning parents that school children are being indoctrinated in the "LGBT agenda."

 

Quite. My gay kid was educated at home, so the "gay cooties" can be caught anywhere, for sure. Not only do I hope those parents who are increasingly home educating their children understand civics better than the author of that piece, I hope they understand teens and sexuality better.

[bolt.]

Nice!

 

I've never been able to work out what the agenda actually is. But it sure sounds scary!

I think the agenda might be (gasp), "Treat us like humans while letting us make our own choices about how to live. If it's not too much trouble, try to prevent the most egregious forms of harassment, and make it possible for us to use public washrooms."

[MedicMom]

I was homeschooled K-11, and dual enrolled for 12th. Hence, I knew a lot of homeschoolers.

 

Frankly, now that they are all in the late 20s and early to mid 30s, the results are not impressive. I suspect some major educational neglect. However, the few families that homeschooled for reasons other than religious or "anything is better than public school" have offspring that have faired better.

[FaithManor]

My experience is very much like Medicmom's. 

[Guest]

I was homeschooled K-11, and dual enrolled for 12th. Hence, I knew a lot of homeschoolers.

 

Frankly, now that they are all in the late 20s and early to mid 30s, the results are not impressive. I suspect some major educational neglect. However, the few families that homeschooled for reasons other than religious or "anything is better than public school" have offspring that have faired better.

Hmm. I have some thoughts on this, excuse me while I muse.

 

My husband's family homeschooled for primarily ideological reasons back in the very early eighties and all the kids went on to college and two of the three ended up with Masters in engineering fields from top schools in their disciplines (the one who didn't still ended up with a business degree and an excellent career with one of the top publishers in the country).

 

Motivation doesn't dictate outcome for families who are dedicated and hard working. Similarly, good intentions can't assure a good education be it in public school, private school, OR homeschool. The work put in matters most of all. Maybe I'm just really lucky but of the adult homeschool grads I know all of them did well or excellent in their colleges and vocations. Even the ones opting for trades or 'just' being Moms were well educated. I suspect some of what you may be seeing is a subcultural bias of a specific group of insulated homeschoolers, not something universal to anyone with religious or anti-establishment impulses (because let's face it, the dirty hippy homeschoolers also make up the component of counter cultural and ideological homeschoolers, especially back several decades ago).

 

Or I could just be really lucky. My mommy friends do a great job, though I can think of a few mediocre educators in the local groups who aren't very disciplined in their schooling or very rigorous in their chosen method, they're far in the minority. And of the kiddos not scoring well on tests I'd say most have learning disabilities of varying kinds and their Moms are doing amazing work helping them, but they're not going to test at grade level despite making great progress in their personal education journeys.

 

I don't doubt educational neglect occurs across the spectrum, but I cannot say I have witnessed a lot of it in the ten years I've been involved intellectually and practically in home education, and my husband and his ilk didn't see much of it either. They were those kids who left homeschool and ended up valedictorians in their high school, but that doesn't change the fact that their parents chose it because of concerns over the culture and quality of public education. What they did was impart their own love of learning and high educational standards coupled WITH their personal moral standards, not just say 'anything is better than public school' and leave it there. I take strong exception to that attitude and speak vocally against it even with my religious friends.

 

If we choose to home educate we are committing to doing it as well as possible, and serving our children's needs as best we can. That might mean outsourcing, delaying or accelerating, and it might even mean accepting the kid or two who really thrives best in a group classroom and honoring that. We absolutely use home education as a method of affirming our family identity and worldview, but the charge of educating is one I take really seriously and encourage other Moms who make the same choice for their families to take seriously too.

 

*ahem* Speechy soapbox moment over :o

Edited November 9, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Charlie]

This thread is an awesome reminder to me that my goal to set up a Rainbow Homeschool group in my state for LBGTIQ kids and their straight/cis allies  should probably come off the backburner and start cooking on high heat.

 

Thank you for doing that. It's probably more appreciated than you know.

 

I think the agenda might be (gasp), "Treat us like humans while letting us make our own choices about how to live. If it's not too much trouble, try to prevent the most egregious forms of harassment, and make it possible for us to use public washrooms."

 

Well sure, but the OP might think something else. I don't know if she thinks like Pat Robertson that the gays are trying to give everyone AIDS, or if she thinks like Jerry Falwell that the gays caused 9/11 and won't stop pushing their agenda until everyone's rights have been literally steamrolled, or something else. Whatever it is, it's a fear so great that she didn't even consider how sharing this article might be taken by others. I log into a homeschool forum to find ideas and support, and I come across a discussion celebrating the idea that more and more people treat my child like an enemy, like some kind of plague to be avoided. I wonder if she shares this opinion. Is my child her enemy? Is my child such a threat that she thinks it a "success story" to hear more people are refusing to sit at the same lunch table with people like my kid than before? Does it bother her to know how hurtful this is? Does she not understand how it might be?

[....]

 I have no obligation to make sure my kids are at the 99th percentile. 

 

:iagree:   Homeschooled kids are allowed to be on grade level.  They don't have to be super-geniuses doing consulting for NASA for homeschooling to have been successful.  That's how percentiles work with a population, anyway, isn't it (hopefully I'm understanding it correctly)?  Everyone can't be in the 99th percentile.  Someone has to score in the 38th percentile or the 76th percentile...?  My 1 year-old is in the 12th percentile for weight.  It sounds like I'm forgetting to feed my son, but some members of the population have to occupy that spot for the percentiles to mean anything (for the record - I haven't forgotten to feed him).    

[luuknam]

:iagree:   Homeschooled kids are allowed to be on grade level.  They don't have to be super-geniuses doing consulting for NASA for homeschooling to have been successful.  That's how percentiles work with a population, anyway, isn't it (hopefully I'm understanding it correctly)?  Everyone can't be in the 99th percentile.  Someone has to score in the 38th percentile or the 76th percentile...?   

 

Right. Of course, with homeschooled kids being only a relatively small percentage of all kids, it would mathematically be possible for all of the homeschooled kids to be above the 80th percentile, for example (too lazy to look up percentage of kids who are currently homeschooled). But if every kid was homeschooled, then 2/5 of homeschooled kids would, by definition, have to be below the 40th percentile, and it wouldn't be a failure of homeschooling.

 

If 40th percentile is bad, then we need to be concerned about educators in general not doing a good enough job, not about whether homeschoolers specifically suck (unless, of course, more than 40% of homeschoolers are below the 40th percentile, but based on PP's numbers, they're not). If my local school sucks so badly that my kid would be at the 10th percentile nationally there, and I homeschool him and he's at the 20th percentile nationally, then that's a win (a sucky win, but still a win). (to be clear, this is hypothetical - my local school is above average, and so are my kids)

[maize]

Setting aside educational neglect, is it possible that these homeschooled kids who are scoring lower have other things going on than poor quality homeschooling? Do any have LDs? Accomodations? Do they have parents who are opposed to teaching to the test and don't care about the result? Are any late bloomers and the parents are giving them time to pick things up? There's a whole lot of reasons some homeschooled kids would perform poorly on standardized tests. Considering that is all ps kids are forced to focus on for weeks at a time, I'd say it's not bad.

Thank you for saying this.

 

I am not sure why anyone would expect homeschoolers to be like the families of Lake Wobegone where all children are above average. Of course there are homeschooled children with dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, FAS, low IQ, in fact there are probably examples of just about every learning challenge or disability. There are also of course gifted students.

 

But any group of mixed demographics that expects everyone to be above average is, IMO, being unrealistic.