Please reassure me that my DD WILL learn to read....

[Emmalm]

DD6, dear DD6. Who appears to have a math brain and whose handwriting often puts mine to shame. Will you ever learn to read? I know you are only almost 7, but I admit I might be beginning to despair. We go to the eye doctor and you say the sounds the letters make instead of their names, which is fine, but you should know the letter names by now! You can read some little phonics readers, but when reading down a list of CVC words you read the '-at' words fine, then when it comes to the word 'big' you read 'pat.' How can I help focus your brain? What will help you? We have started over again and again, tried Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, Alpha Phonics, and Phonics Pathways. We cruise along well for a bit, then all of the sudden the lessons end in tears and frustration. We try to soldier on for a bit longer, but I think more harm than good is being done at that point. We are in the middle of Explode the Code 1 1/2, not having tested out of that book yet, while DD4 tested ready for Ex the Code 1. What can I do to help you? How do we carry on now? What do you need???

 

Please help!!! I just feel like there is no way I can teach DD6 to read. Math? No problem, even though I hated math. Science? It'll be a blast. History? Fine. But reading? I feel like I am failing epically. Anyone out there sympathize? Any help or ideas? This is probably the most important aspect to me, and I am completely floundering.

[maize]

At not quite 7, I would personally give her a break. Take two months off, then come back and try reading lessons again. Sometimes that is all a kid needs, the break allows for a bit of brain maturation and reorganization and the motivation to look at things with a new perspective.

 

If, after the break, nothing has changed, I would look into evaluations and resources for dyslexia.

 

But at that age, a short break won't hurt.

[fralala]

Don't despair!

 

Does she like listening to you read? Do you like reading aloud to her? Does she have picture books she loves?

 

I have reading curricula I love and think are great, but I'm not sure you need another curriculum (yet). My instinct with my own 6 year old (who has two younger siblings) would be to try to spend the 1:1 time I would otherwise be trying to teach her to decode having special book bonding time-- pulling out books to read to her alone on my lap (without trying to point to words or sound things out!), maybe making a special trip to the library together to pick out books and just have Us Time, snuggling at the end of the day when the others are to bed and reading a chapter book aloud.

 

This may not help your daughter learn to read, but I think if I were you I would need the break just to cuddle and enjoy each other and refresh my mind. Sometimes a break from trying the be the Teacher allows me the perspective I need to better help my kids learn-- I often come up with ideas about what we need to do when I've given myself a vacation from actually doing anything.

[forty-two]

:grouphug:  Teaching reading's been difficult with both of my girls (and I'm still in the middle of teaching reading to my middle).  I'd suggest giving your dd the Barton pre-screening - it checks to see if kids have the necessary phonemic awareness skills to be able to learn to read phonetically.  Both of my girls flunked, which explained a lot.  They both spent a full year on CVC words, and I did the first eight lessons or so (covering the various short-a word families) several times through with both of them - whenever we'd hit a wall (so many times), I'd go back to the beginning and start over.  And it helped that our reading program (Let's Read: A Linguistic Approach) moved slower than most of the phonics programs I've seen - worked through each short vowel family one at a time, with plenty of practice.  Both of my girls needed to work through each possible CVC word individually (and later, each possible consonant blend) - they could not generalize from knowing the individual sounds, because they could not blend well - we did *so much* work on blending.

 

How's her blending skills?  Can she orally blend individual sounds into a word? If you say /c/ /a/ /t/ and tell her to "say it fast and make a word", can she do it?  And can she do it with unfamiliar words?  Have you done the train game from Phonics Pathways?  I did it with homemade Dekodiphukan sound picture tiles and AAS-style phonogram tiles, and it was wonderful for teaching my middle dd to blend.  We used to work through each and every word in her lesson with the tiles before moving to the text, and even now we pull out the tiles if she's having problems.

 

And with her getting into the rhythm of the -at words and completely missing the change when a word that breaks the pattern appears - if you cover up the word and uncover one letter at a time, having her say the individual sound and then blending together the visible part of the word, till she's worked through the whole word - can she do that?  A common suggestion to help struggling readers is to use a notched index card.  Cut a little rectangle out of a corner of the card, as tall as a single line of what she's reading and about an inch wide. Have her slide it along as she reads, uncovering each word as she goes (or slide it along for her).  If she starts to get a word wrong, stop right there and have her start at the beginning of the word and uncover each individual phonogram one-by-one, sounding out as she goes.  It helps kids slow down and *pay attention* to each bit of each word, and to reinforce reading left-to-right and sounding out to decode (instead of guessing or filling in the blanks with what you expect to see).

 

Another thing I've done with my girls is to use parts of Dekodiphukan (Decode-if-you-can).  It teaches reading through intuitive sound pictures - a hissing snake for /s/ and a buzzing bee for /z/, for example - before teaching the phonograms that go with each sound.  It's all free, and if you have an iPad, it's extremely user-friendly, as they've converted the classroom materials to several free iPad apps.  There's a fun rhyming story that teaches the sound pictures, and a lot of activities involving blending the sound pictures and writing with them, before moving to matching the phonograms to the sound pictures.  I *love* Dekodiphukan, especially the sound pictures - builds up lots of good phonetic skills.

[Emmalm]

 

At not quite 7, I would personally give her a break. Take two months off, then come back and try reading lessons again. Sometimes that is all a kid needs, the break allows for a bit of brain maturation and reorganization and the motivation to look at things with a new perspective.

 

If, after the break, nothing has changed, I would look into evaluations and resources for dyslexia.

 

But at that age, a short break won't hurt.[

 

We have done that. It goes okay for awhile, then back to frustration. I know she is only 6, not quite 7, but we are in a very small town where everyone is watching us. Yes, they actually are. My husband is a pastor and that gives everyone the idea that they have a say in what we do and how we raise our children. Yes, people have said as much. I know I should not let that get to me and is usually doesn't. But then I read TWTM and their children were reading chapter books at age 6, why aren't mine? I am going to fail and all these people will say they were right! Sigh.

[forty-two]

We have done that. It goes okay for awhile, then back to frustration. I know she is only 6, not quite 7

Sometimes time doesn't solve the problem - my kids' problems weren't going to resolve on their own at any age. I'm more in favor of looking into *why* things are hard and remediating them early than to keep waiting and waiting for it to magically resolve itself.

but we are in a very small town where everyone is watching us. Yes, they actually are. My husband is a pastor and that gives everyone the idea that they have a say in what we do and how we raise our children. Yes, people have said as much. I know I should not let that get to me and is usually doesn't. But then I read TWTM and their children were reading chapter books at age 6, why aren't mine? I am going to fail and all these people will say they were right! Sigh.

:grouphug: ITU what you mean about WTM - the kindergarten year is all about getting them up and going with reading, and first grade work all assumes basic reading ability, and last year I was right where you are now, with an almost 7yo basically non-reading first grader. It's disheartening at times, even when you try not to let it get to you :grouphug:.

 

I'm a pastor's wife, too, and while I don't have people all up in my business like you do :grouphug:, I did feel a lot of internal pressure to have her reading by the end of first grade. And when friends and family asked how things were going, it was only the knowledge that I had a plan and was working the plan and making steady, if slow, progress that allowed me to feel confident and act confident. And that's most of the game wrt warding off mostly-well-meaning-and-always-intrusive advice - sounding firm and confident in your work :thumbup:.

[maize]

I've had one who was reading chapter books easily at six, one for whom reading didn't click until around age seven but then took off, and one who is dyslexic but making slow and steady progress. Plus a few more in the pipeline :)

 

Since you've already tried taking a break and coming back, it can't hurt to take the advice upthread and try the Barton screening.

Edited September 6, 2016 by maize

[KrissiK]

Well, that's tough. My middle dd finished kindergarten after tryng 3 different curriculums and didn't know her letters at all. Now, after a year of CLE phonics she's reading qute well. I'm not necessarily saying it's the curriculum but with her it was clearly a case of readiness. Some kids are ready later than others.

[wallingjan]

My daughter was almost 8 before the magical "click" happened. She jumped over 4 grade levels in less than a month. I was freaking out! But my frustration definitely made things worse so I kept reassuring myself that my goal was a love of learning and a love of literature. I read to her and we just kept it fun. Easier said than done, I know!

[Kiara.I]

Have you asked her if the letters stay still on the page when she's reading them?  Do.

 

And when you go to the eye doctor, does she check ability to follow movement with her eyes as well as checking whether she can say out the letters?

[Ellie]

DD6, dear DD6. Who appears to have a math brain and whose handwriting often puts mine to shame. Will you ever learn to read? I know you are only almost 7, but I admit I might be beginning to despair. We go to the eye doctor and you say the sounds the letters make instead of their names, which is fine, but you should know the letter names by now! You can read some little phonics readers, but when reading down a list of CVC words you read the '-at' words fine, then when it comes to the word 'big' you read 'pat.' How can I help focus your brain? What will help you? We have started over again and again, tried Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, Alpha Phonics, and Phonics Pathways. We cruise along well for a bit, then all of the sudden the lessons end in tears and frustration. We try to soldier on for a bit longer, but I think more harm than good is being done at that point. We are in the middle of Explode the Code 1 1/2, not having tested out of that book yet, while DD4 tested ready for Ex the Code 1. What can I do to help you? How do we carry on now? What do you need???

 

Please help!!! I just feel like there is no way I can teach DD6 to read. Math? No problem, even though I hated math. Science? It'll be a blast. History? Fine. But reading? I feel like I am failing epically. Anyone out there sympathize? Any help or ideas? This is probably the most important aspect to me, and I am completely floundering.

 

Well, you started working with her when she was pretty young, and you have used at least three different methods to teach her to read. I suspect there's some confusion--and frustration--going on in her little head.

 

Sometimes you have to stay with one method until you finish it. Sometimes you have to put everything away for a season for some R&R (and sometimes it's a *long* season).

 

FTR, my younger dd was not reading at her age level until she was 9 1/2. She was taking community college classes when she was 14.

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cathi

[Guest]

At not quite 7, I would personally give her a break. Take two months off, then come back and try reading lessons again. Sometimes that is all a kid needs, the break allows for a bit of brain maturation and reorganization and the motivation to look at things with a new perspective.

 

If, after the break, nothing has changed, I would look into evaluations and resources for dyslexia.

 

But at that age, a short break won't hurt.

Amen!

 

I had this kid. Two years of phonics with painfully slow progress. Then we eased off, took a break, and took it up again. After about a week at it the developmental skills clicked and she was off to the races. If id just waited to do more than verbal phonics and readalouds until she was seven we would have spared ourselves many tears and much frustration.

 

Lesson learned.

[Emmalm]

Don't despair!

 

Does she like listening to you read? Do you like reading aloud to her? Does she have picture books she loves?.

  

 

Oh she loves being read to, and we have been reading to her at the very least 30 minutes a day since she was born. More often at least an hour. And she loves to look at books on her own...she does sometimes point out words that she knows, but my DD4 is much more aware, I would say, and pretends to read books where DD6 has never pretended she could read. I usually don't ask either to read words when I read to them.

 

 

Sometimes time doesn't solve the problem - my kids' problems weren't going to resolve on their own at any age. I'm more in favor of looking into *why* things are hard and remediating them early than to keep waiting and waiting for it to magically resolve itself.:grouphug: ITU what you mean about WTM - the kindergarten year is all about getting them up and going with reading, and first grade work all assumes basic reading ability, and last year I was right where you are now, with an almost 7yo basically non-reading first grader. It's disheartening at times, even when you try not to let it get to you :grouphug:.

I'm a pastor's wife, too, and while I don't have people all up in my business like you do :grouphug:, I did feel a lot of internal pressure to have her reading by the end of first grade. And when friends and family asked how things were going, it was only the knowledge that I had a plan and was working the plan and making steady, if slow, progress that allowed me to feel confident and act confident. And that's most of the game wrt warding off mostly-well-meaning-and-always-intrusive advice - sounding firm and confident in your work :thumbup:.

 

 

Thank you thank you thank you! And for the previously mentioned advice. I have ordered a copy of Let's Read from the library to check it out. I also had her take the Barton screening and oh my did she fail! I might try again simply because it was the end of the school day and she *really* was itching to get out and jump in a jumpy house my parents had brought over. She will probably still fail, but maybe not as fantastically! And thank you for the support! It is hard to be in this role, and I often feel alone in this place. It helps to know there are other pastor's wives out there who aren't afraid to admit they struggle! Hugs to you too!

 

 

I've had one who was reading chapter books easily at six, one for whom reading didn't click until around age seven but then took off, and one who is dyslexic but making slow and steady progress. Plus a few more in the pipeline :)

Since you've already tried taking a break and coming back, it can't hurt to take the advice upthread and try the Barton screening.

 

 

Thank you!

 

 

Have you asked her if the letters stay still on the page when she's reading them?  Do.

 

And when you go to the eye doctor, does she check ability to follow movement with her eyes as well as checking whether she can say out the letters?

 

 

Haha, it sounds funny, but I did and she *said* they wiggled around. She does have glasses, as her eyes focus at different distances. We are due for an appointment. It is a correctable problem, so maybe they are correcting...hopefully. And they do check eye movement.

 

 

Well, you started working with her when she was pretty young, and you have used at least three different methods to teach her to read. I suspect there's some confusion--and frustration--going on in her little head.

 

Sometimes you have to stay with one method until you finish it. Sometimes you have to put everything away for a season for some R&R (and sometimes it's a *long* season).

 

FTR, my younger dd was not reading at her age level until she was 9 1/2. She was taking community college classes when she was 14.

Sigh, I know. The 100 Easy lessons was what I started with. That one was really a battle. I think I could keep on with Phonics Pathways, that is what we have been doing this last year and this year. I think I will go back and restart with the phonograms, sounds and two letter blends. Just practice practice practice.

 

And thank you to everyone else! You (and a glass of wine and some chocolate) have given me strength to face tomorrow!

[Emmalm]

Another one here who had a couple of children who weren't reading until late. 2 of our ds's were 10-12yo before they were reading. And they began reading the Great Books 4 years later, at ages 14yo and 16yo.

 

I also attended a church once where a public school teacher was constantly offering to 'help' me because my younest dd wasn't reading at 6yo. She even brought me her phonics program to help me teach my dd despite the fact that I'd reassured her that we were fine and I had a program that I liked. I thanked her and kept on using my own phonics program I'd been using for years. Eventually I returned her program to her and thanked her again. :001_rolleyes:

 

As usual, this doesn't mean your own kids are just later readers (not that 6-7yo is late, of course). I have no idea how you'd determine that though.

Haha! GRRR! This congregation is waaaay to Scandinavian for that direct approach! I can say that, I am Scandinavian. Not sure which would be worse, direct or passive aggressive!

[Garga]

:grouphug:  Teaching reading's been difficult with both of my girls (and I'm still in the middle of teaching reading to my middle).  I'd suggest giving your dd the Barton pre-screening - it checks to see if kids have the necessary phonemic awareness skills to be able to learn to read phonetically.  Both of my girls flunked, which explained a lot.  They both spent a full year on CVC words, and I did the first eight lessons or so (covering the various short-a word families) several times through with both of them - whenever we'd hit a wall (so many times), I'd go back to the beginning and start over.  And it helped that our reading program (Let's Read: A Linguistic Approach) moved slower than most of the phonics programs I've seen - worked through each short vowel family one at a time, with plenty of practice.  Both of my girls needed to work through each possible CVC word individually (and later, each possible consonant blend) - they could not generalize from knowing the individual sounds, because they could not blend well - we did *so much* work on blending.

 

 

 

 

My son didn't really get going with reading until he was 8-ish. 

 

It was horrible teaching him to read.  I hated every minute of it.  It was a climb uphill...on rocks...on hands and knees...with a 50lb weight on my back.

 

Actually, I think the literal climb would have been better than the climb to learn to read.  UGH.

 

I feeeeeeel your pain.  And all the tears!  His tears, and my hidden ones in the bathroom. Lots of tears.

 

He's in 9th grade now, and while he doesn't naturally seek out books to read, he does read them for fun from time to time (rarely), and he reads fine for school.  I don't think he'll ever read for enjoyment, other than maybe some articles online or something, but he can read enough to learn and get a job done. 

 

I agree, though, that you should look at the Barton stuff.  I think they help you see if the child is dyslexic?  If so, then you'll need specific helps for that. 

 

If your sweetie isn't dyslexic, then you are probably safe to wait a while and try again later.  I learned the hard way that it's no use banging your head against a brain that isn't developmentally ready to learn to read. Just stay far, far (far) away from threads that say things like, "Little Suzie loves to read!  She's three and reading War and Peace!  I just can't keep up with her!"  No!  Stay away from all that!  I cried in the bathroom over a few threads like that in the past.

 

So.....if she's dyslexic, find out now so you can start doing the right thing.  If she's not, it's ok to wait.  Take off 5 or 6 months and then start again.

 

My son HATED Explode the Code and HATED 100 EZ lessons and HATED the WTM curric about reading.

 

He tolerated Hooked on Phonics.

 

What finally got him going (a bit) after HOP was that he loved Harry Potter.  We took turns reading paragraphs back and forth because it was the only thing he was willing to sit still long enough to even try.

 

Oh!  And he has ADHD.  That makes a big difference.  No patience.  We started giving him meds at 8 and that helped his focus immeasurably.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Garga

[Rosie_0801]

You have made sure she's eaten protein and drunk a glass of water before you try reading lessons?

 

Mine is really sensitive to that. Earlier in the year she was reading right on grade level when properly fed and watered, but wasn't sure what an f was if she wasn't.

[forty-two]

I agree, though, that you should look at the Barton stuff. I think they help you see if the child is dyslexic? If so, then you'll need specific helps for that.

 

Just to clarify, the Barton *program* is for dyslexia, but the Barton *pre-screening* is testing to see if students have enough phonemic awareness to be able to *begin* the Barton program. You can fail the pre-screening and not have dyslexia (though if you fail, you do have some reading-related difficulties), and you can pass the screening and have dyslexia (in fact, you *must* pass in order to *start* the Barton dyslexia program).

[Susan in TX]

Some kids don't learn to read with a strict phonics only approach. My son was very, very, frustrated by phonics. I switched to a combination of sight words and phonics. We used Click n Kids online program and the Scholastic 100 Words Kids Need to Read workbook series. I also bought some old Ginn Basal readers that were used in the 1960s. And when he read to me I could not ask him to sound out a word he didn't know. If I did that he would not remember it and would be sounding it out again in the next sentence. I simply told him the words he didn't know. He didn't always learn them right away but eventually he did.

 

Rod and Staff has a very good learning to read program that is balanced but I find it moves too quickly for some children. With my daughter I used Beginning Steps to Reading (not the Readers just the phonics) first, then we moved to Rod and Staff. Some kids will need more than a year of phonics/reading instruction. My daughter spent about a year at the CVC level. She is 8 now and just starting to read books like "Frog and Toad". Some kids just need more time.

 

Susan in TX

[Kiara.I]

  

Haha, it sounds funny, but I did and she *said* they wiggled around. She does have glasses, as her eyes focus at different distances. We are due for an appointment. It is a correctable problem, so maybe they are correcting...hopefully. And they do check eye movement.

 

Please, please, please make sure her appointment is with a COVD optometrist, (or there's one other acronym that's good too, can't remember what it is...anybody?)

And tell them that she says the letters wiggle.

 

If she has a convergence or a tracking issue therapy might help.  If she has

then maybe the coloured screens or lenses might help.

[HS Mom in NC]

My middle daughter wasn't ready to start learning to read until just before her 8th birthday.  By the time she was 11 she could read like an adult. She started college at 15. She's really mathy too. She needed calculus at 14.

When she was 5 we got out phonics and worked at it for 10 minutes a day, twice a day for a few weeks.  Not much stuck.  We put it away for 3 months.  We did that over and over again until one day it clicked. 

My oldest started learning to read at 4.  She could read like an adult by her 5th birthday.  We never repeated or reviewed anything.  Ever. My youngest started learning to read at 5.  She's 11 and can't quite read like an adult yet, but she's above what would be considered grade level.  They're all different.

 

[calihil]

My oldest daughter will be 8 in December and she still is not reading fluently and definitely not reading chapter books yet. We are working on it but I think it's more a matter of it just "clicking" for her, plus she's just not entirely interested yet lol. She'd much rather play or do gymnastics. I started teaching her when she was 5 but now I wish I would have just waited until she was ready.

[sweetpea3829]

I scanned quickly and may have missed it but...is she seeing a developmental optometrist?  A D.O. is different from a regular eye doc, in that he/she will evaluate for possible developmental vision issues which *can* cause reading difficulties and often mirrors dyslexia.  

 

 

I found it curious that your sweetie says the letter sounds instead of the letter names at the eye doc.  That's very interesting.  She obviously knows the sounds they make...but why is she struggling to put them together in words?  

 

 

As far as what to do...well....there are two different thought ideas on this...the one being that kids develop at different rates, don't worry about it and she'll eventually get it.  The other being that at her age...CVC words should probably be something she could master by now, given the instruction she's had, and the fact that she seems unable to master them, probably indicates a deeper issue going on.  

 

 

I would be curious how exactly she struggles.  Does she attempt to sound out words?  Is she seeing the first letter and guessing based on shape?  You said she sees the word "big" and reads "pat".  That's a pretty big leap and a surprising one for a student who's had phonics instruction for as long as she has.  A lot of times, dyslexics will see that b at the beginning of big and they'll read out a word that begins with b but has a different ending (assuming they actually recognize the 'b' as a 'b' and not a 'd' or 'p' or 'q').  If you segment a word with her one letter at a time, is she successful then?

 

How about phonemic awareness skills?  Can she orally identify the beginning, middle and end sounds of words?  If she give her a word and ask her to change the beginning sound to make a new word, can she?  Can she rhyme?  

 

Her handwriting is fine, you indicated.  So she can correctly write down the letters you instruct her to?  But if she sees a written letter, she cannot identify it's name, only the sound?  (side note...I think it's Waldorf or Montessori where they don't actually teach the letter names...they teach the letters as sounds).    

 

If she were my child, the questions I've asked above would be things *I* would be looking out for and monitoring.  At almost 7, she is still well within the "normal" range of learning how to read.  But...given her instruction background, and that she has achieved SOME progress but seems stalled at the crucial part of learning how to read (putting the sounds together), if she were mine, I'd be on alert.  

 

First place I'd start is with a COVD eye doc.  

 

 

[ExcitedMama]

I'm sorry you are having a hard time!! I think All About Reading is a great program if you want to try something else. It's scripted so you just open and go. Memoria Press First Start Reading is another great program that very slowly starts with blending and works up to reading short passages. It incorporates writing which could help with reinforcement.

[HS Mom in NC]

Well, you started working with her when she was pretty young, and you have used at least three different methods to teach her to read. I suspect there's some confusion--and frustration--going on in her little head.

 

 

Yes, this is a whole lot of curriculum hopping in a short time with a young child. Is it just me, or is this getting to be more common among new homeschoolers? Maybe it's just anecdotal, but I'm surprised how quickly and often I see someone ditching an entire curriculum and replacing the whole thing with a new one.

 

[Guest]

Yes, this is a whole lot of curriculum hopping in a short time with a young child. Is it just me, or is this getting to be more common among new homeschoolers? Maybe it's just anecdotal, but I'm surprised how quickly and often I see someone ditching an entire curriculum and replacing the whole thing with a new one.

 

I think with the explosion of resources there is definitely a mixed blessing of options - too many!

 

My first advice to homeschoolers locally who ask is to pick a curriculum they like and want to teach and do it, to the end, unless it is absolutely mismatched to the child's abilities. Most problems aren't fixed by dumping a program, especially when modification can usually do it.

[PeterPan]

Just jumping to the end here, but for an almost 7 yo to fail the Barton pre-test is concerning.  Although it is NOT a dyslexia test, reality is it's something a developmentally typical 5 yo with no SLDs should be able to do.  A 5 yo should be able to do it.  So EITHER her phonological processing is weak OR her working memory is weak OR BOTH.  

 

That's not a wait and hope it blossoms kinda thing.  That's a go get a CTOPP and get it sorted out.  You are EXACTLY at the recommended age/grade for dyslexia testing.  The new standard is 1st grade, and that's what she is, a 1st grader.  In fact, they're now saying they want kids identified BEFORE first grade, not at the end.  

 

So yes, go get her a CTOPP, get her tested, see what's going on.  And stop making it personal.  If they're watching you, they're not being charitable, meaning they don't matter.  She WILL learn to read, but some kids do not learn to read without more detailed intervention.  You've already done numerous curricula, and she failed a screening for age-appropriate foundational skills necessary to learn to read with ANY program.  Therefore, she's not going to learn to read without some intervention.  It's not personal and it's not a reflection on you.  Your job as a mom is to gather the data and get her the help.

 

Fwiw, the data *could* show things you're not expecting.  You could get a CTOPP, a psych eval (IQ, achievement, ADHD screening) and find out it's mainly low working memory.  I agree with having the vision screened.  When we were in this scenario with my ds, I took him to have his ears checked (audiologist), took him to a developmental optometrist to have his eyes checked), and then a psych.  The Barton pretest is looking at working memory and it's something that is typically low with ADHD.  Many ADHD kids will be crunchy on learning to read.  But you need data to sort out what's going on.  There's certainly no need to wait.

Edited September 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

PS.  Come hang on LC!  There are people there who don't frequent the other boards, and they don't bite.   :)

Edited September 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[busymama7]

I have three dyslexics. I would consider it for sure.

[maize]

Some kids don't learn to read with a strict phonics only approach. My son was very, very, frustrated by phonics. I switched to a combination of sight words and phonics. We used Click n Kids online program and the Scholastic 100 Words Kids Need to Read workbook series. I also bought some old Ginn Basal readers that were used in the 1960s. And when he read to me I could not ask him to sound out a word he didn't know. If I did that he would not remember it and would be sounding it out again in the next sentence. I simply told him the words he didn't know. He didn't always learn them right away but eventually he did.

 

Rod and Staff has a very good learning to read program that is balanced but I find it moves too quickly for some children. With my daughter I used Beginning Steps to Reading (not the Readers just the phonics) first, then we moved to Rod and Staff. Some kids will need more than a year of phonics/reading instruction. My daughter spent about a year at the CVC level. She is 8 now and just starting to read books like "Frog and Toad". Some kids just need more time.

 

Susan in TX

One of my brothers was like this-- I think he is a very strong visual/spacial thinker, excels at mathematics. Phonics did not work for him, he needed a whole words approach in order to learn to read. He eventually became a voracious reader.

 

Mature readers make very limited use of phonics, we mostly just recognize word shapes

[momacacia]

Reading your situation, and having a very bright and wonderful firstborn who wasn't (gasp!) an early reader (high EQ, visual spatial kid), walk in confidence, Mamma, and be patient with your little one. The "parish" isn't her parents. God gave her to you, not them.

[forty-two]

One of my brothers was like this-- I think he is a very strong visual/spacial thinker, excels at mathematics. Phonics did not work for him, he needed a whole words approach in order to learn to read. He eventually became a voracious reader.

 

Mature readers make very limited use of phonics, we mostly just recognize word shapes

I disagree that "phonics didn't work" is *because* of being visual/spatial. Rather, my experience is that "phonics didn't work" is usually a sign that the person is lacking the necessary phonemic awareness and auditory processing skills necessary to read phonetically - and the visual/spatial thing comes in because those are the people who are able to learn to read at a high level *despite* lacking the ability to read phonetically. And, in my experience, because the person with visual strengths and auditory weaknesses will naturally gravitate toward the easier visual approach and resist the harder/impossible auditory approach.

 

Phonemic processing weaknesses run in my family, and both my girls failed the Barton pre-screening. But my highly visual/spatial oldest failed it as a fluent reader, because she managed to become a sight reader through strict phonics-only teaching (and teaching her reading had been an exercise in her continually trying to visually subvert the phonetic point). But my auditory/sequential middle never tried to visually get around her phonetic weaknesses - she was (broadly) willing to work through them - I don't think she could have learned visually.

 

And the whole "mature readers go by the shape of the word anyway so phonics isn't needed" - there's so much background phonetic processing going on that you don't even realize till you watch someone who really *does* work almost entirely by word shape (because their phonetic processing is very weak). Last year my oldest wrote "inrteuering" for "interrupting", because she was unable to hear the phonemes in the inner syllables and so had to *entirely* rely on her memory of the shape of the word, unconnected from *any* phonetic help. This year, after a year's worth of dedicated work on blending phonemes and syllables, and breaking words into syllables, she wrote "interruputing", which is *such* an improvement (and we have not practiced that particular word or spelling pattern - I just asked her to write it this morning to see how she'd do).

 

And my ability to correctly pronounce new words has gone way up since I've been remediating my own weaknesses - I'm not throwing in extra syllables or completely misplacing the accent. Dd10 has improved there, too - she used to be so bad that I couldn't make heads or tails of what she was saying when she was asking me what a new-to-her word meant - had to have her show me the written word in the book in order to figure out what she was trying to say, her pronounciation attempt was so bad.

[hepatica]

 

Mature readers make very limited use of phonics, we mostly just recognize word shapes

 

Actually, new research shows this is not true. If we look at the brain while we are reading, the brain still processes each letter, and does not look at the whole shape. We experience reading as mature adults as if we see the whole word at one time, but this is an illusion.

 

See Reading in the Brain, by Stanislas Dehaene

[MistyMountain]

Honestly since she failed the Barton test at almost 7 I would think something is going on to make reading difficult and I would look into it further. Do not feel bad about trying 3 different things. When things are hard you try something else to see if that works but it sounds like she is having trouble because of something like a weakness in phonemic awareness or working memory not because of the curriculum you tried.

Edited September 9, 2016 by MistyMountain

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cathi

[maize]

I just looked at the Barton test recommended in this thread. None of my 6 kids could have passed that test at 6 or 7yo. Or even older. But none of them were anywhere near being early readers. And all were average kids, no LD's or anything.

This one?

https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss

 

My dyslexic 8 year old was able to pass it, if memory serves it is mostly phonetic awareness.

 

Maybe your kids would have surprised you :)

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cathi

[Emmalm]

So much to read and consider!

Things have been going better, though we will see. I have started over with just the phonograms, adding new ones every few days, and she is doing well with that. She has also started, with spelling and EC to say the names of the letters (yay) instead of just the sounds they make. Oddly enough, it seems DD does better with reading real sentences in books than she does with just the single words in EC and the like. I wonder if, even though she was struggling, doing that kind of reading was just boring for her and her mind drifted, losing focus on what words she was supposed to be reading? Her mind does drift fairly easily. She is not ADD or ADHD at all, she is just a bit.....flighty and could end up being a bit of a ditz (like my dear MIL) if not helped to focus. Any fans of Bertie and Wooster on here? Remember Madeline Bassett? Yeah, that could totally be DD6! That was part of our frustration with 100 Easy Lessons, we both got bored. Something slow but where she would actually be reading might work best to keep her attention.

We have an eye appointment in a week or so, so we will see how that goes. I don't think there is anything seriously wrong; DD can do very detailed drawing and coloring, and does embroidery with absolutely no problem. But we will talk to the eye doctor about things.

Thank you for all your support and advice!

[PeterPan]

It took me a full year to accept after the first professional told me my dd had ADHD.  I couldn't believe it, and I had a lot of misconceptions.  

 

You might want to go ahead and pursue evals, even though you don't think you need them.  There's often a wait of 3-6 months for a good psych, and it's easier to cancel than to get 6 months down the road and wish you had the answers.

 

If it's a regular optometrist, they won't be checking the things a developmental optometrist does.  You can look at the COVD list to find a dev. optom.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I recommend agetting an assessment  and also relaxing a little. I found watching Between the Lions with my ds very helpful and fun. I would often sound out the words too when the show did and even used closed captions for the show and all shows as long as the captiosn were correct and not too distracting. Many libraries may have their videos or you can check the schedule on PBS or see if Amazon or Hulu or Netflix has these.

 

You can see some episodes here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF3vH15xsvE

 

Here is specific info on the show:

 

http://pbskids.org/lions//parentsteachers/program/

 

Then there are some fun interactive phonics programs on online that may be more fun and game like to help her learn which my kid also enjoyed:

 

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/clicknread/?c=1

 

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/explode-the-code-online/?c=1

 

This site also has a lot of great info and resources:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html

 

Lastly, I read to my kid everyday and occasionally I would sound out words to him while I read. I think making it fun may be the key here. By making it more like games she may be willing to spend more time with it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[luuknam]

I wonder if, even though she was struggling, doing that kind of reading was just boring for her and her mind drifted, losing focus on what words she was supposed to be reading? Her mind does drift fairly easily. She is not ADD or ADHD at all, she is just a bit.....flighty

 

Um... Maybe she's not hyperactive/ADHD, but mind drifting would be an attention deficit, yes? So ADD would still be a possibility.

[PeterPan]

It's all called ADHD now, with subtypes like inattentive, etc.  And yes, the op is describing pretty classic ADHD-inattentive.

[sweetpea3829]

It's all called ADHD now, with subtypes like inattentive, etc.  And yes, the op is describing pretty classic ADHD-inattentive.

 

^^^This.  

 

And let me add...it's annoying, having to explain, "DD is ADHD, but minus the H."  

[Guest]

I disagree that "phonics didn't work" is *because* of being visual/spatial. Rather, my experience is that "phonics didn't work" is usually a sign that the person is lacking the necessary phonemic awareness and auditory processing skills necessary to read phonetically - and the visual/spatial thing comes in because those are the people who are able to learn to read at a high level *despite* lacking the ability to read phonetically. And, in my experience, because the person with visual strengths and auditory weaknesses will naturally gravitate toward the easier visual approach and resist the harder/impossible auditory approach.

 

Phonemic processing weaknesses run in my family, and both my girls failed the Barton pre-screening. But my highly visual/spatial oldest failed it as a fluent reader, because she managed to become a sight reader through strict phonics-only teaching (and teaching her reading had been an exercise in her continually trying to visually subvert the phonetic point). But my auditory/sequential middle never tried to visually get around her phonetic weaknesses - she was (broadly) willing to work through them - I don't think she could have learned visually.

 

And the whole "mature readers go by the shape of the word anyway so phonics isn't needed" - there's so much background phonetic processing going on that you don't even realize till you watch someone who really *does* work almost entirely by word shape (because their phonetic processing is very weak). Last year my oldest wrote "inrteuering" for "interrupting", because she was unable to hear the phonemes in the inner syllables and so had to *entirely* rely on her memory of the shape of the word, unconnected from *any* phonetic help. This year, after a year's worth of dedicated work on blending phonemes and syllables, and breaking words into syllables, she wrote "interruputing", which is *such* an improvement (and we have not practiced that particular word or spelling pattern - I just asked her to write it this morning to see how she'd do).

 

And my ability to correctly pronounce new words has gone way up since I've been remediating my own weaknesses - I'm not throwing in extra syllables or completely misplacing the accent. Dd10 has improved there, too - she used to be so bad that I couldn't make heads or tails of what she was saying when she was asking me what a new-to-her word meant - had to have her show me the written word in the book in order to figure out what she was trying to say, her pronounciation attempt was so bad.

So true. My FIL was taught a whole word approach and to this day struggles very much. The man is brilliant and loves to read but he is painfully slow and distinguishing among similarly shaped words is something that takes him effort.

 

He even remediated a bit as an adult with a phonetic approach but after years of reading and practice it he has had a hard time overriding his original instruction in this area.

 

I will never say never - some people may actually succeed with a whole word approach. I'm just not sure I've met any who are competent, voracious readers and can easily approach unfamiliar words.

[Guest]

Um... Maybe she's not hyperactive/ADHD, but mind drifting would be an attention deficit, yes? So ADD would still be a possibility.

I have often wondered if my oldest would qualify. She is such a space cadet - super smart and sweet and usually a very happy worker, but her brain wanders to and fro like Doug after a squirrel (I think we laughed overly hard at 'Up'). She will be in the middle of a task and just totally space out or walk away in the middle to do something else. She doesn't even mean to, and is always very apologetic. She just gets distracted by everything inside and outside her head.

 

So yeah, maybe ADD, maybe just an airhead. I can't figure it out and she is smart enough that she can cover any 'deficits' pretty handily (as we discovered with a vision issue - she just masterfully compensated for almost being blind in one eye - sheeeesh!).

 

OP - I'm glad things are going better since you dialed it back and went to the basics again. I'd still tell your church to shove it, in the nicest way possible. She's your responsibility and you know her best.

[beth83]

DD6, dear DD6. Who appears to have a math brain and whose handwriting often puts mine to shame. Will you ever learn to read? I know you are only almost 7, but I admit I might be beginning to despair. We go to the eye doctor and you say the sounds the letters make instead of their names, which is fine, but you should know the letter names by now! You can read some little phonics readers, but when reading down a list of CVC words you read the '-at' words fine, then when it comes to the word 'big' you read 'pat.' How can I help focus your brain? What will help you? We have started over again and again, tried Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, Alpha Phonics, and Phonics Pathways. We cruise along well for a bit, then all of the sudden the lessons end in tears and frustration. We try to soldier on for a bit longer, but I think more harm than good is being done at that point. We are in the middle of Explode the Code 1 1/2, not having tested out of that book yet, while DD4 tested ready for Ex the Code 1. What can I do to help you? How do we carry on now? What do you need???

 

Please help!!! I just feel like there is no way I can teach DD6 to read. Math? No problem, even though I hated math. Science? It'll be a blast. History? Fine. But reading? I feel like I am failing epically. Anyone out there sympathize? Any help or ideas? This is probably the most important aspect to me, and I am completely floundering.

What kind of eye test are they giving her?

 

A friend of mine just found out her daughter was far-sighted. She is 6, as well, and has a lot of trouble reading. They were thinking dyslexia, or some other issue. Then a grandfather stepped in who noticed she had a hard time seeing close letters. The doctor's tests didn't catch that she couldn't see up close. She just got glasses that she wears when reading and she is flying through lessons.

 

Worth looking into.