Kid Meltdown on Plane; Mom blames passenger who got angry

[TranquilMind]

But we're talking about a family that is trapped on an airplane with a child in distress. I can't imagine that there is anyone on that plane that is more anxious than the parents to get the child calmed down.

I imagine everyone is anxious in a small space that no one can escape.

[SKL]

Ignoring a child screaming is not a bad way to handle the situation. Leaving may be what the child wants and will show them if they scream they get their way. Special needs or not kids act up. Some are harder then others. Some errands must be done because that adult is the only one that can do them. Sometimes you cannot control a child's reaction. I think acting calm is a good way to manage the situation. What is yelling at a child in a meltdown going to do?

 

Right, I'm thinking that the grocery shopping has to be done, screaming child or not.  It is unfortunate and I'm sure Granny wasn't so thrilled with it herself, but what is the alternative?  Go without food until the kid is in a great mood?  Would one of those older men like to volunteer to deliver food to folks who have noisy kids?  That would solve their problem I'm sure.

 

I also notice that, for whatever reason, many people take their kids shopping when they are tired.  Somehow the toy store seems to be a favorite place to take tired, miserable kids.  I'm not sure I've ever been to a toy store without hearing some kid screaming and crying.  Which makes those toy store commercials promising happy kids sound hilarious.  :P

[Melissa in Australia]

I have a screamer. When he was placed with us ( foster child) he would scream for SIX hours every day. This went on for months. During that time I had to use public transport 11 times to go to Melbourne for either medical appointments or access visits. It takes just under 7 hours by public transport each way

I have had a bus driver want to put me off with two small children on the side of the highway in the Middle of nowhere.

I have had a entire train carriage empty.

I have stood in between train carriages for hours holding a screaming child, while my 12 year old looks after the other one.

It is awful. It is stressful, it is incredibly embarrassing. I have wished I had a big sign that I could hold up saying he is a foster child and we are working on it.

I have had strangers abuse me. It is awful.

 

 

We have had a whole team of professionals assisting this little boy with this issue. It has taken close to 2 years but now he only screams for a few minutes every day. And now he can be stopped by being reminded that we talk, I cannot help him if I don't know what the problem is.

[El...]

I've been thinking two things about this. 

 

First, we've got a pervasive mindset going on that a child who's screaming is under-disciplined - a brat.  It is so ingrained that DD's karate instructor teaches the kids to yell, "Help, help, this is not my Dad!" if grabbed, because other adults don't run to rescue a kid who is just screaming. 

 

Second, what's with the social media vengeance trend?  It's definitely vengeance.  Somebody offends someone, and instead of punching her in the nose at the time or even engaging in actual verbal conflict (probably because one might be punched in the nose!), the offended party takes broad, indiscriminate vengeance and tries to destroy the person's reputation.  It seems cowardly to me.  Not that punching people would be good!  It's so much like stabbing your offender in the back as they prance away. 

 

Is it that the mom felt so powerless at the time, on the plane?  She was enraged that her kid was put down, and she probably feels that her kid lives in a very threatening world.  She probably lives with a lot of fear for her kid's future. 

 

This isn't shaming; this is lashing back, I think disproportionately.  It's happening a LOT lately.

[Ausmumof3]

Yeah, the whole "spoiled kids these days" thing when people hear a kid having a meltdown in the store drives me nuts. Trust me, if I was spoiling them they wouldn't be crying ,they would have whatever they wanted!!!! (and sometimes I do, lol)

Besides I know that back in the older generations day kids were often left in the car or outside the shop to wait, which just can't be done now.

[Valley Girl]

These days, you never really know. We've all been in situations with parents who were completely oblivious to their child making all kinds of noise and disturbing others.    I've watched them in meetings while their kids were literally running around and shrieking. They were so used to ignoring it that they didn't even hear it anymore. 

 

So that's a big maybe on that one. 

 

 

Sure there are parents who are clueless. In the situation you mentioned in which kids are running around and preventing people from hearing or participating in meetings, the organizer can and should politely request that the parents take the kids outside. Or make a general announcement that the meeting is starting and quiet is needed.

 

In the case of a grocery store or airplane, I've been the parent trying to get through the last through few aisles with a screaming kid who can't or won't be comforted. I didn't have the luxury of dropping him off with someone so I could go back and finish shopping another time. So I cut parents slack. A smile, a kind word of commiseration with a stressed parent, a "you're a good mom" to the woman who is obviously trying very hard to soothe an uncooperative little one may help. At the very least, keeping nasty looks and comments to oneself is probably kindest. Yeah, it's incredibly irritating but what if the situation were reversed?

 

I've also had my older kids make comments like "What's that kid's problem?" If they do it within earshot of the parent, I make sure my answer is also audible: "Sometimes little kids are tired or not feeling well or there could be other reasons they're unhappy. Mom's doing her best, and you need to be patient."

 

I'm not disagreeing that some parents could care less. I just think most of them do care very much. I try to put myself in that parent's shoes.

[bettyandbob]

I'm not getting from the article the passenger side of the story. Maybe I missed it.

If she really yelled at the child/parents that was wrong. But I also think the public shaming on social media is wrong. The public shaming is not going to help the girl.

We don't know anything about what went into this woman's action that might lead us to give her grace too. Who knows:was she leaving a vacation early because she broke up with her fiancé on the trip or did her mother call her and tell her her sister had died in a car accident. We have no idea what fried this woman's patience. Yes she's an adult and ought to hold herself together. Once in a while adults have spectacular breakdowns too.

I don't like the mom saying the woman could have requested moving seats. Please tell me who on the plane would volunteer to switch to sit next to an 8 year old having a fit. Not actually an option.

I've been the parent of the horrible dc on the plane. He was 7 at the time. We never took a family vacation on a plane again. Do I deserve a vacation. Yes. Should other people be trapped with a difficult situation if it's optional (vacations are optional). No.

So, we drove after that. We took an overnight train once. Amtrak has cars for families and child free cars. Plus we could spread out (the train was not fully booked) we also stated splitting up the family to go on shorter trips because that avoided triggers for my oldest.

Did ds still have breakdowns in public places. Yes. I worked hard to avoid triggers and to avoid trapping anyone with my family. Sometimes you can't avoid it. Oldest ds is 2E and eventually learned how to hold himself together. Youngest has down syndrome and is mostly easy, but once in a while stuff doesn't go well. 6 weeks ago I was on the floor of a grocery holding my youngest who is adult sized for 40 minutes, until we could calmly make an exit while being sure we didn't lash out and break something on our way out the door. Crap happens. Sometimes you can't avoid breakdowns. So you plan for them and figure out how to handle them. Obviously if you have to travel for medical treatment there's no way around it.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Diana P.

[Laura Corin]

I've been the parent of the horrible dc on the plane. He was 7 at the time. We never took a family vacation on a plane again. Do I deserve a vacation. Yes. Should other people be trapped with a difficult situation if it's optional (vacations are optional). No.

 

So, we drove after that. We took an overnight train once. Amtrak has cars for families and child free cars. Plus we could spread out (the train was not fully booked) we also stated splitting up the family to go on shorter trips because that avoided triggers for my oldest.

 

 

FWIW, it's often cheaper for a family in Britain to go on holiday to somewhere in Southern Europe than to holiday in Britain.  For a cheap package holiday in the sun, the plane is the only option if you live on an island.  And I do think that parents of ill children should be allowed a cheap holiday.    The extras (food, entertainment, etc) will also be cheaper in Spain.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Laura Corin

[TranquilMind]

Right, I'm thinking that the grocery shopping has to be done, screaming child or not.  It is unfortunate and I'm sure Granny wasn't so thrilled with it herself, but what is the alternative?  Go without food until the kid is in a great mood?  Would one of those older men like to volunteer to deliver food to folks who have noisy kids?  That would solve their problem I'm sure.

 

I also notice that, for whatever reason, many people take their kids shopping when they are tired.  Somehow the toy store seems to be a favorite place to take tired, miserable kids.  I'm not sure I've ever been to a toy store without hearing some kid screaming and crying.  Which makes those toy store commercials promising happy kids sound hilarious.  :p

 

I never understood this, if there is any alternative.  I shopped at midnight sometimes just to be able to do it alone.  My husband also did it super early on a Saturday morning, just to be able to do it alone. 

 

If you have a spouse (or some other willing person), leave the kids home!  Your trip will be much faster through the aisles. 

[TranquilMind]

Sure there are parents who are clueless. In the situation you mentioned in which kids are running around and preventing people from hearing or participating in meetings, the organizer can and should politely request that the parents take the kids outside. Or make a general announcement that the meeting is starting and quiet is needed.

 

In the case of a grocery store or airplane, I've been the parent trying to get through the last through few aisles with a screaming kid who can't or won't be comforted. I didn't have the luxury of dropping him off with someone so I could go back and finish shopping another time. So I cut parents slack. A smile, a kind word of commiseration with a stressed parent, a "you're a good mom" to the woman who is obviously trying very hard to soothe an uncooperative little one may help. At the very least, keeping nasty looks and comments to oneself is probably kindest. Yeah, it's incredibly irritating but what if the situation were reversed?

 

I've also had my older kids make comments like "What's that kid's problem?" If they do it within earshot of the parent, I make sure my answer is also audible: "Sometimes little kids are tired or not feeling well or there could be other reasons they're unhappy. Mom's doing her best, and you need to be patient."

 

I'm not disagreeing that some parents could care less. I just think most of them do care very much. I try to put myself in that parent's shoes.

 

But the organizer does nothing!  Either he/she is a similar parent that is able to completely edit kids' obnoxious sound out, or he feels it is the parents' responsibility to corral them.  I agree with the latter.  But if that parent has learned to totally ignore his own kid's sound, everyone else just has to suffer. 

This reminds me of a neighbor I once had, long ago.  An awful neighbor in many ways, including literally bringing the dog over into the center of MY yard to defecate and then leaving.  Anyway, same neighbor, not surprisingly, would not corral her 4 year old.  He was used to playing on my property when the house had been empty and he didn't stop.  We could not pay for a privacy fence yet.  I warned her time and time again that I don't have kids, so I'm not watching out for them, and perhaps it would be better if he stayed in her yard so he didn't get hurt jumping off my porch and stuff like that. 

 

She ignored me.  One day, I began backing out of my garage (opposite side of the property from this neighbor) and her 4 year old dashed behind my car.  I could have killed him!  I had to go over yet again and ask her to keep her kid on her property for his safety. 

 

These parents exist everywhere, including on planes. 

 

[mommytobees]

I never understood this, if there is any alternative.  I shopped at midnight sometimes just to be able to do it alone.  My husband also did it super early on a Saturday morning, just to be able to do it alone. 

 

If you have a spouse (or some other willing person), leave the kids home!  Your trip will be much faster through the aisles. 

 

 

Can't shop at midnight if you are the only adult at home.

[TranquilMind]

Can't shop at midnight if you are the only adult at home.

 

I know, which is why I mentioned it. 

 

[ktgrok]

I never understood this, if there is any alternative.  I shopped at midnight sometimes just to be able to do it alone.  My husband also did it super early on a Saturday morning, just to be able to do it alone. 

 

If you have a spouse (or some other willing person), leave the kids home!  Your trip will be much faster through the aisles. 

 

Trust me, if I shop at midnight, I'll be the one having a melt down in the store! I need my sleep. 

 

Of course, my kids are fairly well behaved, and we tend to do lots of short grocery trips rather than long big ones. That way we can bail out quickly if need be, and not be totally without food at home. 

[TranquilMind]

Trust me, if I shop at midnight, I'll be the one having a melt down in the store! I need my sleep. 

 

Of course, my kids are fairly well behaved, and we tend to do lots of short grocery trips rather than long big ones. That way we can bail out quickly if need be, and not be totally without food at home. 

I used to do that because I was a night person.

 

I can shop anytime now.  It's lonely. 

[gardenmom5]

Obviously, the woman should have been kinder and not screamed at the kid if she could at all control herself. That's a given. Kids have meltdowns, and you can't always avoid flying with young children. Nor should you have to.

 

With that said, I recently learned about something called "misophonia," which is a kind of disorder that makes a person intolerant to very specific sounds. (I looked it up in the first place because I couldn't figure out why the sound of my dh watching tv in the bedroom, or our duplex neighbor listening to music, made me freak the f* out like a crazy person and hyperventilate and want to strangle someone.) They don't know much about it, but it has something to do with the association of past trauma with that sound somehow, and the limbic system triggering an adrenaline rush along with rage and fear every time you hear it. I always assumed my issue in that regard was connected to my OCD, and they might in fact be related, but people with no other mental illnesses can have it too. It might also be related to SPD.

 

So what I'm getting at here is that while it's possible the woman is just your run-of-the-mill asshat, it's also possible she had something like misphonia, that crying kids are her trigger, and that she clung to the end of her rope for as long as she could and then lost it.

 

I think there is also something chemical -that can change.  I've had times when sounds set me off (this is just an example of *one* time) . . . like, sitting in church and someone is playing the violin and I'm cringing because it was physically painful.  and NO, there was *nothing* "wrong" with the violin or how they were playing - it was me adversely reacting to an otherwise lovely performance.  (I've heard violins that screeched or were otherwise off . . this wasn't it.)

 

and other times, the same sound doesn't bother me.  

 

but I've been dealing with dudeling and his auditory processing problems and how for somethings - it is affected by chemistry.

[maize]

I think there is also something chemical -that can change.  I've had times when sounds set me off (this is just an example of *one* time) . . . like, sitting in church and someone is playing the violin and I'm cringing because it was physically painful.  and NO, there was *nothing* "wrong" with the violin or how they were playing - it was me adversely reacting to an otherwise lovely performance.  (I've heard violins that screeched or were otherwise off . . this wasn't it.)

 

and other times, the same sound doesn't bother me.  

 

but I've been dealing with dudeling and his auditory processing problems and how for somethings - it is affected by chemistry.

 

I wish I could learn more about this. Dh often reacts strongly to sounds--I can see him physically recoil as if in pain.

[Laura Corin]

Dh often reacts strongly to sounds--I can see him physically recoil as if in pain.

Yes. My husband finds sirens and bagpipes physically painful. However, he knows that this is his problem, and routinely carries earplugs.

[kiwik]

I would have been in tears after being trapped in a plane with a screaming kid for more than 10 minutes so I can understand the other woman's feelings. No she didn't handle it well and she had no right to get abusive but neither does the mother have the right to abusive back by posting stuff on line. Bad stuff happened on a plane but it doesn't need to be continued off a plane.

 

If I was trapped in the supermarket with the kid mentioned I would leave and go to another supermarket. I am too sensitive to noise and it makes me foul tempered.

 

I think we get used to our own kids and forget how loud they really are.

Edited August 21, 2016 by kiwik

[gardenmom5]

I wish I could learn more about this. Dh often reacts strongly to sounds--I can see him physically recoil as if in pain.

 

 

Yes. My husband finds sirens and bagpipes physically painful. However, he knows that this is his problem, and routinely carries earplugs.

 

 

auditory processing disorder can be treated. there are three subgroups.  the ear itself has to be fine to look at how the brain hears.

dudeling is currently in therapy for one particular type.  it is also one reason why he takes a high quality fish oil supplement. (he gets  Nordic naturals proomega 1280mg)

 

we also did some with tomatis - which looks at how the bones conduct sound. 

[heartlikealion]

Aw how awful.

 

I really hate the "give someone ear plugs" responses to all noise issues. I once had a noisy neighbor and earplugs didn't help me and I couldn't comfortably wear them. I also know someone who had earplugs break in their ear! So yeah... not a fan of ear plugs as solutions lol. I do think the angry passenger should have sought help from a flight attendant (like a new seat).

 

What is the point? I think the point is to get the message back to the complaining woman so she sees how her actions affected the little girl and what kind of night that family had... to think twice about her actions next time she decides to be rude. Also, with the support of enough "likes" or whatever/strength in numbers, maybe the woman could see that many people agreed with the mom that the remarks were not socially acceptable/appreciated or whatever.

[heartlikealion]

I wish I could learn more about this. Dh often reacts strongly to sounds--I can see him physically recoil as if in pain.

 

I want to learn more, too. Apparently ds covered his ears and found music too loud at a recent event (I was not there).

[Laura Corin]

Aw how awful.

 

I really hate the "give someone ear plugs" responses to all noise issues. I once had a noisy neighbor and earplugs didn't help me and I couldn't comfortably wear them. I also know someone who had earplugs break in their ear! So yeah... not a fan of ear plugs as solutions lol.

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with ear plugs. If you think they might be useful to you in the future, I would recommend the Sparkplugs brand. They are industrial grade and very comfortable.

[Guest]

I want to learn more, too. Apparently ds covered his ears and found music too loud at a recent event (I was not there).

If they have been raised in a home where there isnt constant noise, its simply because their cilia havent been damaged. They can hear, very well because their cilia are intact. Its fun to go airplane watching as they can hear it earlier than a gp. Its common to see preschoolers with hearing protection now.

 

My child wore hearing protection at school through 5th grade, due to the screaming and yelling in his full inclusion classrooms. He cant think while in sensory overload, and if the school had no quiet place that he could go to he would just put on his ear protection and face a visually calm view until a quiet place opened up. Children dont have developed nervous systems...being next to a screamer or a constant fidgiter is like an adult living next to the airport....sensory overload. Nothing they can do but escape the variations of fingernail on chalkboard.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[maize]

auditory processing disorder can be treated. there are three subgroups.  the ear itself has to be fine to look at how the brain hears.

dudeling is currently in therapy for one particular type.  it is also one reason why he takes a high quality fish oil supplement. (he gets  Nordic naturals proomega 1280mg)

 

we also did some with tomatis - which looks at how the bones conduct sound. 

 

Can you point me to some resources?

 

Dh is hard of hearing, and at the same time hyper sensitive to sound. I was aware of auditory processing disorder as a potential issue for some of my kids but had actually never connected the term with dh. What kind of therapy is your son doing?

[SKL]

I never understood this, if there is any alternative.  I shopped at midnight sometimes just to be able to do it alone.  My husband also did it super early on a Saturday morning, just to be able to do it alone. 

 

If you have a spouse (or some other willing person), leave the kids home!  Your trip will be much faster through the aisles. 

 

Thing is, there are many many single parents out there.  The options for leaving your kids with someone else are no as plentiful as some would like.  Especially for the kids most likely to have a problem in public.

 

That said, I embraced online shopping after my first Christmas season toting two tots on every shopping trip.  My kids weren't even "difficult" and it was still a big project to take them from store to store every weekend.

 

But obviously we can't buy everything online, and sometimes it's an emergency situation.  After reading Melissa's post, it struck me that maybe the 7yo screaming in the grocery store was a foster kid that just got placed, or maybe the woman was a grandma who just stepped in to help in a difficult situation.  Could be all sorts of things.  One thing for sure, the caregiver wasn't doing it for the entertainment value.

[luuknam]

I think we get used to our own kids and forget how loud they really are.

 

I wish.

 

(it's happened multiple times that I'm shushing my kids and other people are like "they're fine" - but they're too loud for *me*)

Edited August 21, 2016 by luuknam

[Amy in NH]

Can't shop at midnight if you are the only adult at home.

 

There aren't any stores for multiple-hours-drive that are open past 9 or 10 pm.

[Bluegoat]

Trust me, if I shop at midnight, I'll be the one having a melt down in the store! I need my sleep. 

 

Of course, my kids are fairly well behaved, and we tend to do lots of short grocery trips rather than long big ones. That way we can bail out quickly if need be, and not be totally without food at home. 

 

Me too - I've on occasion gone to shop very late, but I am really usually out of commisoon by that hour.  I can barely manage evenings lately.

 

I try not to take all the kids either, but sometimes that is just how it works out.  I needed to do a big shop desperatly last Friday (my payday), and I ended up doing it in the morning because I didn't have much of anything for lunch, so I had four kids.  They were mostly pretty good and even were complimented, but toward the end the baby became loud and restless.  I sure wasn't going to abandon my cart at that point though, when I was almost done!

[KarenC]

Sometimes parents don't realize how annoying their children are being. 

I wondered about this.  Maybe the child has regular meltdowns and the parents are so used to it, they don't realize how irritating it is to others.  I was on a 9 hour flight to Spain this summer.  A screaming child would have gotten old very quickly, especially since we had been up since 5 a.m.   I would love to hear from an impartial bystander.

[Laura Corin]

I wondered about this.  Maybe the child has regular meltdowns and the parents are so used to it, they don't realize how irritating it is to others.  I was on a 9 hour flight to Spain this summer.  A screaming child would have gotten old very quickly, especially since we had been up since 5 a.m.   I would love to hear from an impartial bystander.

 

Ibiza to Manchester is under three hours.