A secret account? (related to the divorce question)

[Ann.without.an.e]

This has come up several times in the last few months I was just reading an article the other day about how some spouses without a steady income stash away money in a "leaving fund".  They don't do this because they want to leave/plan to leave/need to leave.  They do it just in case they end up in a bad situation. It feels sneaky to me.  I am not sure if I am comfortable with it or not?  I go back and forth.  What does the HIVE think - yay or nay?  For what it is worth, I am not anticipating divorce in my near or distant future.  Just thinking through the concept.

[zoobie]

If you're being abused, sneak away. In an otherwise healthy relationship, sneaking anything that detracts from the marital assets as a whole (emotional, financial, physical) does seem wrong. Opening retirement accounts in one's own name, keeping good credit in one's own name, having equal access to assets, etc. are ways to be open about it. 

[Guest]

I would do this if I felt threatened, but I wouldn't do it just normally in a healthy marriage. With that said, I have no problem with having non-secret separate accounts. We have a bunch of accounts here and, if anything, I have more "power" in this respect than DH does because I manage them and have access. He has theoretical access and can find the PW and account numbers, it is not hidden from him. But he doesn't care or do anything about those accounts, I do.

[madteaparty]

**not legal advice**

In NY, you have to provide extensive financial disclosures. I don't see how you can legally hide an account.

That said, I think there is a 401k loophole. That is, you cannot by law change the beneficiary of a 401K to someone other than your spouse, without that consent. That's great and good but you can borrow against a 401k and even cash it out (at huge tax penalty) without anyone's consent. If one wanted to go scorched earth, burning themselves in the process, that's one way. :)

[Tita Gidge]

I think it'd have to be disclosed at the divorce, right? Or maybe that's just my state (which is community property).

 

My work around for this would be to funnel it through family; say, paying my sister to babysit or something when really SHE is the one holding onto the funds for me.

 

[kewb]

Every one should have a knipple. I absolutely have secret stashes of money. They are not in interest bearing accounts because then they wouldn't be secret.

It has nothing to do with plans to leave my spouse and everything to do with having a stash gives you options. It is not thousands and thousands of dollars but a nice little rainy day fund.

[TechWife]

I don't think it's an issue of hiding money from divorce proceedings. Some people want ready access to funds should they find themselves in a bind. I've heard horror stories about people being the spouse that was left only to find out that the joint accounts had already been cleared out. Hopefully this would get straightened out during divorce proceedings, but buying groceries groceries and paying for housing, etc. is an immediate need. I'm not promoting this practice at all, just trying to give some perspective.

[Arcadia]

It is very common in my grandparents and parents generation in Asia. Women's Charter tried to have divorce courts be less financially disadvantaged towards SAHMs who were abandoned. My well to do cousin who dump his first wife and kids for someone else at least paid child support and alimony on time. I know many who don't and it is hard to garnish child support from wages when the guy does not hold down a regular job. My hubby's uncle-in-law who is a freelance insurance agent did that.

 

A working friend was dumped a few years ago. She had half his debts and no child support. Luckily she was working and her relatives babysat her child for free.

 

It would be nice not to need a leaving fund but there is no marriage insurance.

 

 

ETA:

Not a bank account which would come up in divorce courts. Retirement accounts, kids 529 accounts and cash stash. When a working spouse abandon a non-working spouse, it is unlikely that the working spouse left grocery and utilities money.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Arcadia

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

 

I can understand why one would want one, and absolutely needed if someone is in an abusive relationship.

 

It would likely need to be secret cash stash, as any account wouldn't be a secret.

[6packofun]

I have no plans of divorce and our marriage is OK, but in 23 years of marriage with as many rotten mistakes and poor financial decisions that my dh--who I love very much--has made?  Yeah, I've got my own account and for a few years it was secret.  He does know I have it now, but he has no access, he doesn't ask and I don't feel compelled to share.  Sometimes I have to try to set money aside for Christmas or something that we need, etc.

 

Dh has made great strides in becoming more financially responsible.  But he can be very controlling about it.  It's hard to describe, but he feels like HE is the one who needs to fix his mistakes and many times it was easier for one person to handle things.  But he was ALWAYS the one handling it...kwim?  So yeah, I have an account.  lol  It was never about maybe needing or wanting to leave, though.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I have no plans of divorce and our marriage is OK, but in 23 years of marriage with as many rotten mistakes and poor financial decisions that my dh--who I love very much--has made? Yeah, I've got my own account and for a few years it was secret. He does know I have it now, but he has no access, he doesn't ask and I don't feel compelled to share. Sometimes I have to try to set money aside for Christmas or something that we need, etc.

 

Dh has made great strides in becoming more financially responsible. But he can be very controlling about it. It's hard to describe, but he feels like HE is the one who needs to fix his mistakes and many times it was easier for one person to handle things. But he was ALWAYS the one handling it...kwim? So yeah, I have an account. lol It was never about maybe needing or wanting to leave, though.

 

This is fairly common, and another reason many have secret accounts.

[TravelingChris]

I don;t have a secret account.  We have been together for over 30 years and I am not worried about divorce.

[nd293]

No. But as a child of divorce where I saw my mother struggle financially because she wasn't informed enough or assertive enough I make sure that I'm the one who is most informed about our finances. I know where every cent goes, and I make sure everything is in joint names.

[MinivanMom]

My mother did this. Her husband had us living paycheck to paycheck, because he was using the rent & grocery money to buy himself electronic toys. He was also withdrawing money from the atm and couldn't explain where the money was going. She was afraid of what he was doing with the money and that there wouldn't be any money in an emergency or if he left her. As it turned out, her husband was having an affair. And shortly before they divorced, her father (my grandfather) had a heart attack, and she was able to use the money to fly out to be with him. She wouldn't have been able to do that otherwise. 

 

I don't have any secret accounts, but I have all kinds of sympathy for women who feel they need them. Abuse, a controlling spouse, a spouse with poor spending habits, financial dependence as the sahm and fear of abandonment - there are many reasons women have secret accounts during a marriage. The advantage of having that money saved in an account doesn't disappear just because the account has to be disclosed during the divorce. Lucky for the husband that the account exists to be divided as marital assets.

[gardenmom5]

abuse is mentioned (which is usually interpreted as physical, emotional, social, etc.) - but I would also include - if your spouse tends to play the field/have affairs, or is extremely secretive (where you don't know what is going on with them at all.).  then it could be a good defensive strategy.   but in an otherwise healthy marriage relationship - no, I wouldn't.

 

eta:I have a separate checking account, but that is only about convenience.  no secrets.  

Edited July 20, 2016 by gardenmom5

[G5052]

If I had any doubts at all, I would. As others have said, you have to be careful how you do it because of tax and legal implications.

 

Thankfully I don't feel like I need one, but I know some who have done that and were glad they did.

[bolt.]

I have an emergency account with solo access that I don't really mention to my DH. There are some cases where he might *cause* the emergency (separation, affairs, extravagant overspending, addiction, surprise-onset abuse) and there are some cases where he might *be* the emergency (accident, medical crisis, identity theft, funds frozen for investigation, death). In any of those cases, money in my own name is absolutely critical. I don't need him to know about it. It's not for everyday collaborative spending. It's for keeping me and the kids safe if life explodes and he's involve. There are no garuntees.

 

In case of divorce of course these assets would be disclosed and fairly included in the division. In the meantime, it's a question of what I would be living on for months: without his income before my asset-share becomes legally mine.

Edited July 20, 2016 by bolt.

[JustEm]

I don't have a secret account but we each have our allotted money in the budget to spend on whatever we want on ourselves without involving the other. Dh spends his completely within the month. I rarely touch mine so I have a nice stash of my own money. Dh has no idea how much it is because I'm sure he assumes I spend mine. If he ever wanted to know I'd tell him but he would still know it was mine to spend as I please.

 

I don't view it as options if I need to leave him though. I simply don't want anything so I don't spend it.

[Anacharsis]

This has come up several times in the last few months I was just reading an article the other day about how some spouses without a steady income stash away money in a "leaving fund".  They don't do this because they want to leave/plan to leave/need to leave.  They do it just in case they end up in a bad situation. It feels sneaky to me.  I am not sure if I am comfortable with it or not?  I go back and forth.  What does the HIVE think - yay or nay?  For what it is worth, I am not anticipating divorce in my near or distant future.  Just thinking through the concept.

 

I think it depends on the context. For instance, some people prefer to keep some money in a home safe in addition to their bank account. Perhaps the safe is even hidden from obvious view to deter thieves; does that necessarily mean the money is there for sneaky purposes? Perhaps they had older relatives who talked their ears off about what happens during a bank failure. It's important to look for more detail.

[LucyStoner]

I don't think it is wrong for anyone to set aside money unless they are trying to leave the other in dire straits. And there are a lot of situations in which it's not only ok to do so, it would be stupid not to. My husband isn't controlling about money or finances and I have access to money in my own name should I ever need it. But a lot of women do have spouses who are controlling about money.

 

I know women who would never leave a bad situation unless they have the means to do so. Getting that in place privately and safely can be imperative. One woman I know accumulated what she needed to leave with cash back on every grocery purchase. That cash saved her life and it was nothing that left him unable to live or that took more than 1/2 of THIER money. She took what was hers to take.

Edited July 20, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Seasider]

I have a separate account for my own out of budget spending. DH is very financially responsible, and we've had debit cards compromised in the past, so he keeps a close eye on transactions. That makes it very hard to buy any kind of treat or gift for him! After many years of marriage and a couple of spoiled birthday and anniversary surprises, I decided to open this account. He is fully aware of it.

[lllll]

nm

Edited November 9, 2016 by cathey

[abcmommy]

Every woman should have her own money, period.  

 

There is no reason to hide it if the marriage is loving.

 

It should not be a bank account if the marriage is abusive.  It should be cash and hidden well.  Maybe a trusted friend would hold it for you.  Or put it under your mattress.  Or in an old boot in the closet.

[J-rap]

I wouldn't ever consider sneaking away money if I had no reason, but I did encourage a friend of mine whose husband was very strange and horribly controlling to get her own PO Box and bank account and put money in it whenever she could.  (She wasn't even taking money that was his, but money that she earned herself but knew that he would take and that she'd never see again.)

 

Also, this reminds me a little of the Dick Van Dyke episode when Laura was sneaking money into a secret account to buy Rob a car as a surprise.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0769914/

 

 

 

[MomtoCandJ]

I am making a small cash stash but that is just money I would have spent on cigarettes (I'm quitting). It's just another "sh!t happens" fund.

[MedicMom]

I have a 401K and a seperate checking account that is in my name only(DH has both as well). But they aren't secret. I used to have a nice nest egg in both but they've been raided the last year and a half for medical bills. Hopefully things will stop happening to us and I can get them built back up soon.

 

If push came to shove and I needed to leave, I would be able to access money of my own to get an apartment and buy groceries. I have enough in there to put first and last month down as well as a security deposit on someplace big enough for three kids.

Fortunately I don't expect that to happen.

[MaeFlowers]

I don't think it's bad. When I first got married, my family got mad that I didn't have one. All the women in my family did. It may sound awful but the reality is that they are sometimes needed.

These funds really shouldn't be in an account though. They should be all cash. My grandmother kept hers under the wall to wall carpeting in their house. My great aunt hid hers in the drapes. I don't think it would figure into a divorce if it's cash anyway. Why would you tell and how would he prove it?