Do women really say the opposite of what they mean?

[Murphy101]

I think lots of people of both genders don't say what they mean, sometimes on purpose.

 

I am not one of them. If anything, I'm too bluntly honest about exactly what I mean.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's extra special when it's a stupid task like cleaning a toilet or the litter box.  "Whatcha doing?"  Eating bon bons and getting a manicure of course! 

 

I don't know why what I'm doing always appears so mysterious.

 

 

[SKL]

I dislike being asked a question with a really obvious answer.  Like, "oh, you're home?"  So I will respond creatively.

 

Or, "how was your root canal?"  Super!  Can't wait to have another!

 

Or my kids:  "What are we having for dinner?"  Worms!

 

It seems nicer than "DUH YOU IDIOT."  :P

[regentrude]

Seriously! I sometimes think the Women Who Appreciate the Compass Rose Club must be pretty small.

 

I found people process routes in very different ways, independent of their ability to use maps and cardinal directions.

 

When DH recalls a route, he sees the topology in his mind, oriented in cardinal directions.

When I recall a route, I remember landmarks: I turned right at the intersection with the clock; go past the cemetery on the left, stuff like this. 

 

I always have a pretty good sense of where North and East are, without having to think much about it, and for receiving directions, I actually prefer "Go 11.2 miles South on HWY 63, make a left on CR 332 and go 2.3 miles", but when I remember the drive, my mind will have made note of landmarks and I can recall them for orientation.

[SproutMamaK]

I feel like this question is a good example of a paradox for my next logic lesson.

"Do women say the opposite of what they mean?"
Women: "Yes."

 

;)

Edited July 11, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[VaKim]

I found people process routes in very different ways, independent of their ability to use maps and cardinal directions.

 

When DH recalls a route, he sees the topology in his mind, oriented in cardinal directions.

When I recall a route, I remember landmarks: I turned right at the intersection with the clock; go past the cemetery on the left, stuff like this. 

 

I always have a pretty good sense of where North and East are, without having to think much about it, and for receiving directions, I actually prefer "Go 11.2 miles South on HWY 63, make a left on CR 332 and go 2.3 miles", but when I remember the drive, my mind will have made note of landmarks and I can recall them for orientation.

Well, I can apparently drive past something my whole life and never really see it. I absolutely hate when my mom gives me directions. "You go past that big yellow house where Mr. Blahblah used to live (who the heck is he, and I have never even noticed a yellow house), then you turn up the next street where that big church is (never paid attention to the church). I never have any idea where anything is when she tells me. She is the opposite, and, though she has lived in the same little dinky town for 40 years, still does not know the names of any streets other than the one she lives on and a few others. AND she has no concept of directions at all and gets mad when I tell her something is north or south of something else. 

[happi duck]

Ime, a lot of women don't say what they really mean and are caught up in an unspoken competition with each other.

 

I find this frustrating.

 

I say what I mean and have experienced being misunderstood by someone trying to "interpret" what I said. Ugh.

[regentrude]

Well, I can apparently drive past something my whole life and never really see it. I absolutely hate when my mom gives me directions. "You go past that big yellow house where Mr. Blahblah used to live (who the heck is he, and I have never even noticed a yellow house), then you turn up the next street where that big church is (never paid attention to the church). I never have any idea where anything is when she tells me. She is the opposite, and, though she has lived in the same little dinky town for 40 years, still does not know the names of any streets other than the one she lives on and a few others. AND she has no concept of directions at all and gets mad when I tell her something is north or south of something else. 

 

This is why when I give directions, I give a mix:

"From the stoplight at KMart, drive 11.2 miles South on Hwy 36. After 10 miles, you will see a small air field on the right with orange balloons on the power lines. At 11.2 miles, there will be a brown wooden sign at the right that says "blabla". Turn right there onto road 1234..."

 

This way, people with both kinds of brains can find it

[Anacharsis]

As something fundamentally related to being a woman, no. I think really it is more that people often obey the social customs of the environment they grew up in, and many social customs are based on gender roles.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I found people process routes in very different ways, independent of their ability to use maps and cardinal directions.

 

When DH recalls a route, he sees the topology in his mind, oriented in cardinal directions.

When I recall a route, I remember landmarks: I turned right at the intersection with the clock; go past the cemetery on the left, stuff like this. 

 

I always have a pretty good sense of where North and East are, without having to think much about it, and for receiving directions, I actually prefer "Go 11.2 miles South on HWY 63, make a left on CR 332 and go 2.3 miles", but when I remember the drive, my mind will have made note of landmarks and I can recall them for orientation.

 

That and what type of driving they do regularly.  I don't drive on highways too often.  I drive nearby where I live mostly so no I don't really think in terms of routes or highway numbers.  I don't even think in terms of streets.  It really is that broken street sign on the corner past the park that I see every time I drive in XYZ direction. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

As something fundamentally related to being a woman, no. I think really it is more that people often obey the social customs of the environment they grew up in, and many social customs are based on gender roles.

 

Yeah this brings up more questions than it answers.

 

What exactly are social customs based on gender roles?  That can be specific for some people and very fuzzy for others.  I can't think of too many specifics in this department.  And then is this inside of people or taught?  We talk about differences between men and women, but what are those differences?  Where do they come from?

 

I'm like a little kid with this...why why why...why do they do that!!

 

:laugh:

 

 

[Guest]

Well, I can apparently drive past something my whole life and never really see it. I absolutely hate when my mom gives me directions. "You go past that big yellow house where Mr. Blahblah used to live (who the heck is he, and I have never even noticed a yellow house), then you turn up the next street where that big church is (never paid attention to the church). I never have any idea where anything is when she tells me. She is the opposite, and, though she has lived in the same little dinky town for 40 years, still does not know the names of any streets other than the one she lives on and a few others. AND she has no concept of directions at all and gets mad when I tell her something is north or south of something else.

This is exactly how my mom gives directions and it always drove me crazy. GPS has been a godsend. As long as I have a valid address, I can probably get there.

 

I do not mind a landmark thrown in there because it gives another point of reference, but for the main directions, I want route names/numbers and cardinal directions. Factual stuff that is not ambiguous.

 

I have gotten extremely lost in my life because of directions like, "turn left at the corner where there's a stone church..." It happens there is more than one stone church on a corner, or there was a brick church, and I'm trying to decide if the person considers stone and brick to be the same thing.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hey as dysfunctional as I may appear in the direction department, I am proud to say that I went without a GPS for oh gee 7 years while living in a totally strange and new place.  I managed to find everything when needed.  I remember the first week being here and I was afraid I'd get lost coming back from the grocery store and wouldn't be able to find our apartment.  I did though!

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I find the GPS confusing.  Left turn in half a mile.  Ok there are like 20 possible turns from here to there and really I don't know what half a mile is.  I know it's more than a few feet, but it's still not terribly specific.  And here the way the streets are sometimes the GPS can't quite figure out which street I'm on so it changes the instructions 10 times driving down one street.  Turn left ahead. Prior to that left...turn around when possible....then right turn in 500 feet.  What the!!!!

 

 

[regentrude]

I find the GPS confusing.  Left turn in half a mile.  Ok there are like 20 possible turns from here to there and really I don't know what half a mile is.  I know it's more than a few feet, but it's still not terribly specific.  And here the way the streets are sometimes the GPS can't quite figure out which street I'm on so it changes the instructions 10 times driving down one street.  Turn left ahead. Prior to that left...turn around when possible....then right turn in 500 feet.  What the!!!!

 

I find the GPS extremely convenient when driving in unfamiliar cities with sequences of one way streets. After the half mile warning, it will give more updates as the turn gets closer, so it is usually fairly clear what it means, especially since it also says the street name into which to turn.

 

GPS is problematic in dense cities because of the reflection of the signal off tall buildings. It is impossible to use in downtown Chicago - that's just the limit of physics.

 

I never use the GPS without having consulted a map to have a basic overview of the topology; that way, I can spot when it wants to lead me the wrong way. Some addresses are wrong in google maps and GPS; at our Women's community center, people trying to use GPS to find the address were lead to some distant farm hours down the road, and it took a lot of effort to have hat fixed.

Edited July 11, 2016 by regentrude

[MotherGoose]

I dunno. This seems like something little kids do. Instead of asking if I would roll the window up in the car my younger kid might say "brrr I'm cold".

 

My husband and I do kind of have a vague back and forth sometimes. What do you want to do? I don't know...how about you? You want to do that? I don't know, do you? I don't know, do you? We are indecisive. LOL But it's not that we aren't saying what we mean. We really both mean it when we say we don't know!

 

 

Re: the "I'm cold " thing: I have clearly told my children that if they are cold, for example, and what they really mean is "please out on the heat." I will say, "I'm sorry you're cold." And move on until they say "will you please put on the heat, I'm cold." I find the complaining without offering a reasonable solution to the problem if you are over, say, 3, to be whiny and manipulative. Probably because my MIL is a master of complaining.

[DawnM]

I sure don't, and I don't appreciate it when others do.   

[happi duck]

Pre GPS we moved to another part of the country and as newcomers received verbal directions frequently.

 

Where I grew up directions were:

Take Main St to Elm, turn right, take Elm to Forest, turn left, 123 Forest will be on the left.

 

Where we moved directions were given differently. I would diligently write everything down until I learned my lesson.

Directions were like:

From your place head down to the street with the school, the school with the dog statue out front...you know the one? Okay, so when you see the school keep going and turn at the stoplight. Turn right and keep going past where the yellow house used to be before it burned down in '73. There'll be a cemetery on your right. Keep going until you see a gas station and make a left. Our house is the one that needs a paint job.

 

I don't mind referencing landmarks but the determining landmarks just to say 'keep going's made no sense to me!

[momacacia]

Why would I say the opposite of what I'm feeling/thinking? Makes no sense. Eventually gets you accused of being a liar, I would think.

 

And I just dont the mental energy for this kind of stuff. I'm tired as it is, and adding mental/emotional juijitsu into stuff is just too much for me.

[Guest]

Pre GPS we moved to another part of the country and as newcomers received verbal directions frequently.

 

Where I grew up directions were:

Take Main St to Elm, turn right, take Elm to Forest, turn left, 123 Forest will be on the left.

 

Where we moved directions were given differently. I would diligently write everything down until I learned my lesson.

Directions were like:

From your place head down to the street with the school, the school with the dog statue out front...you know the one? Okay, so when you see the school keep going and turn at the stoplight. Turn right and keep going past where the yellow house used to be before it burned down in '73. There'll be a cemetery on your right. Keep going until you see a gas station and make a left. Our house is the one that needs a paint job.

 

I don't mind referencing landmarks but the determining landmarks just to say 'keep going's made no sense to me!

This made me LOL! That sounds exactly like my mom giving directions! Even the part about stuff that burned down decades ago! LOL,

[MotherGoose]

Pre GPS we moved to another part of the country and as newcomers received verbal directions frequently.

 

Where I grew up directions were:

Take Main St to Elm, turn right, take Elm to Forest, turn left, 123 Forest will be on the left.

 

Where we moved directions were given differently. I would diligently write everything down until I learned my lesson.

Directions were like:

From your place head down to the street with the school, the school with the dog statue out front...you know the one? Okay, so when you see the school keep going and turn at the stoplight. Turn right and keep going past where the yellow house used to be before it burned down in '73. There'll be a cemetery on your right. Keep going until you see a gas station and make a left. Our house is the one that needs a paint job.

 

I don't mind referencing landmarks but the determining landmarks just to say 'keep going's made no sense to me!

I would say "keep going" as an encouragement to indicate that even if it looks like you are completely in the boonies and are surely lost, you aren't, just keep going and you will find it :).

[nd293]

I never do. If other women do I've never noticed it, but I'm pretty selective in who I spend time with. I do keep quiet to avoid conflict. Sometimes I think I do that too much, but on other subjects (like my views on the school one of my children currently attends) I think I speak my mind way too freely and should keep quiet more.

[Garga]

Aren't most of us on here INTJs? We like to say what we think. So most of us probably are pretty straight talkers.

 

I've had the same experience that two other posters mentioned: when a manipulative communicator tries to figure out what you *really* mean, because they can't conceive of the idea that you already said what you meant. I had a boss like that and it was truly horrible to work for her. She was sure we all had hidden agendas and was suspicious of us all the time.

 

The more I say exactly what I want/mean, the more they try to figure out what it is that I want.

 

MIL is like this. I tried to switch to texting with her so that she could see clearly in writing exactly what I wanted, but she'd still misinterpret what I wrote. I could point to it and say, "See here where I said I wanted to go to Red Lobster?" And she would say, "Oh, but I thought you'd rather have pizza..." But I wrote it out in black and white R E D L O B S T E R, but she still thinks I'm dissembling and only pretending that that's what I want.

 

I think she was raised to be a woman who does whatever the other people around her want. I don't think she's trying to manipulate me. I think she's trying her best to please me. But since she can't imagine that I would be so bold as to say what I want, then she thinks it's her job as a good MIL to try to please me and figure out my hidden wants.

 

It's tiring.

[ErinE]

If I'm really upset, I tend to not be honest until I've worked out my own feelings.

 

So the following scenario would happen:

 

DH: Are you angry about something?

 

Me: No (but it's obvious by body language, tone of voice I am)

 

DH: Are you sure?

 

Me: Yes, I'm sure.

 

DH: Okay.

 

Later when I'm ready to talk to him about it, I will. The reason I say the opposite of what I'm really feeling is because if I say something like, "Yes, but I need some time to process and organize my thoughts," he'll bother me and keep asking about it which makes me even angrier. Sometimes you have to know your audience.

 

Also, sometimes I am angry about something, but I know it's my issue and something I need to work through on my own and I don't wish to discuss it with anyone else so there won't be hurt feelings.

 

I mean this in a respectful tone, but I would be furious if my DH told me he wasn't angry and it's obvious he's lying. 

 

When I'm this angry, I say I need time to myself to process and we'll discuss it when I'm ready. I really, really dislike it when someone says he's not angry, when it's obvious he is. Just say to my face: I'm not ready to talk about it. Don't lie about your feelings, especially to someone close to you.

[ErinE]

I find the GPS extremely convenient when driving in unfamiliar cities with sequences of one way streets. After the half mile warning, it will give more updates as the turn gets closer, so it is usually fairly clear what it means, especially since it also says the street name into which to turn.

 

GPS is problematic in dense cities because of the reflection of the signal off tall buildings. It is impossible to use in downtown Chicago - that's just the limit of physics.

 

I never use the GPS without having consulted a map to have a basic overview of the topology; that way, I can spot when it wants to lead me the wrong way. Some addresses are wrong in google maps and GPS; at our Women's community center, people trying to use GPS to find the address were lead to some distant farm hours down the road, and it took a lot of effort to have hat fixed.

 

DH will just start driving while GPS is processing the directions. I like to take a few minutes and look at the route to see where I'm going. I don't do this when the car's in motion. There's also a certain feeling that the brain get's turned off when GPS is used too much. The directions once told me to turn left across a busy street during rush hour without a stop light. DH kept pushing me to do it, but I refused. No way am I darting across four lanes of highway traffic at 6 pm.

[SKL]

I was just talking to my sister today and she was describing a situation at the pool.  A dad got between my sister and her 5yo in the water.  The man was happily singing and playing with his 3 kids.  My sister started glaring at him.  He was like, what??  She just kept looking at him.  Finally she said, "my daughter doesn't swim very well."  He reached out and grabbed the 5yo and said, "sorry."  I told my sister, "you need to say 'excuse me' and go do what you need to do, not just look at the guy like he knows what you're thinking."  This kind of "communication" seems to happen a lot.  People are supposed to know what a woman is thinking, or they are jerks.  ;)

[KungFuPanda]

I think most women say what they mean, but the ones who don't are more noticeable and more interesting to discuss.

[BooksandBoys]

This has been a fascinating thread for me. I'm a say what you mean person who is also very committed to understanding why I think, feel, and act as I do. I know I occasionally have social challenges because I say what I mean, despite trying to be kind and gentle when I say it. I've always thought this was largely because I was raised in a culture that expects women to keep their mouths shut (so they manipulate instead).

 

It wasn't until reading this thread that it occurred to me that a good portion of my social challenges are due to other women trying to understand the subtext of my words. Subtext that just isn't there, so there is nothing to understand.

 

Seriously, I couldn't even guess how often I've looked at my husband or a straightforward friend and wondered how I've been so misunderstood by a certain person or another when I spoke so clearly and so kindly. To suddenly understand that they were injecting their own subtext habits into my speech clarifies everything! Thanks, Hive!

[Zinnia]

My mom and MIL both have (different) more passive communication styles.  It's what they consider respectful and polite.  It drives my very straight forward, tell it like it is, dh nutty, but he's calmed down about it the last few years.  

It's very jarring to have to hear everything that dh thinks all the time.  (Why????  I do not want someone to be that direct with me!! Just keep things to yourself until the timing is right.)  So it's a little easier for me to just realize that different people prefer different styles.

 

I am SO not an INTJ, though.  Dh is an ENTJ, and he wears me out sometimes.  I am a much quieter ISFP

[LucyStoner]

I try not to say anything I don't mean. I'm definitely not passive but there are times I just don't seriously care about it one way or the other, even if I have a slight preference and I'll just say "you decide, I'm game for whatever." Also, there's a certain amount of smoothing things over in any negotiation or situation where tact or diplomacy is necessary.

 

I can think of many times in my extended family or work life where getting what I wanted or needed required *not* letting loose with precisely what I really meant or wanted to say. Case in point, my toxic addict brother wants to pick up his kids at my door. I'll say "I'll meet you at the drive way", wash rinse repeat as necessary. Which gets me what I want and doesn't cause a huge fight/is a better example to the kids than saying what I really mean would be. That would be "come to my door or within 25 feet of my sons, asshole, and you had better be prepared to have to police called or me to chase you out of here with a bat." Or to him asking to come to a birthday dinner "no, that will not work for me, I wish things were different" is a more adult but less direct version of "are you f-ing kidding me? What, do tell, do you think has changed in the last year that would mean I could invite you?"

[ErinE]

My mom and MIL both have (different) more passive communication styles. It's what they consider respectful and polite. It drives my very straight forward, tell it like it is, dh nutty, but he's calmed down about it the last few years.

 

It's very jarring to have to hear everything that dh thinks all the time. (Why???? I do not want someone to be that direct with me!! Just keep things to yourself until the timing is right.) So it's a little easier for me to just realize that different people prefer different styles.

 

I am SO not an INTJ, though. Dh is an ENTJ, and he wears me out sometimes. I am a much quieter ISFP

There's a difference between always saying what you think and saying what you mean. Being blunt doesn't go hand and hand with being honest. I do my best to be diplomatic whenever I share my feelings, or make it clear that if the time isn't right, we can discuss it later. But i can't hide my feelings; my face reveals everything.

[Bluegoat]

I think in general women use language in a more subtle way than men.  It can be manipulative at times, but it isn't always.  And if can at times be a good idea to consider just being more direct.

 

I don't think, though, that I would fault women for their different use of language, or even automatically say that it is a result of a power differential.  Language can communicate more than just what is on the surface of an interaction. 

[Bluegoat]

I really don't like driving with a GPS.  I much prefer to look at a map before I make the trip, and "drive" the route in my head.  In a strange place, visiting, I might be more inclined to make use of it, but not generally.

 

I'm a land-mark/time direction giver, FWIW.  From what I've read, both that and the other kind are innate, and do correspond significantly with sex.

[J-rap]

I must live in a cave or something, because I've never heard that saying before!  And I certainly don't believe it's true.

 

But, I do think there's a higher chance that women might say something with double-meaning, or with more meaning between-the-lines, than men.  (I don't think it's the majority of women who do that, but I do see it sometimes in women and rarely in men.)

 

I also think women can usually understand the double meaning or read the between-the-lines meaning far better than men.

 

Not exactly a between-the-lines example, but I remember one time when my MIL and I were having a conversation, we only needed to say the first few words of each sentence and were able to answer each other the same way and on and on and perfectly understood each other.  My husband was completely dumbfounded!

 

It went something like:

 

"Today, do you have that"

 

"Why, yes"

 

"Do you think we should"

 

"Absolutely, at 3."

 

"And then"

 

"That'll work."

[EmseB]

I am a fan of being direct, but I do think indirect communication is a valuable skill. Being able to ask questions until a person comes around to a conclusion or decision point can be very helpful, say, in a hospital setting where doctors don't like to be second guessed or anything like that. Sure, it would be better to just have a normal conversation, but if the other person is recalcitrant and holds most of the cards then a little bit of indirect-ness can be helpful.

[Zinnia]

I am a fan of being direct, but I do think indirect communication is a valuable skill. Being able to ask questions until a person comes around to a conclusion or decision point can be very helpful, say, in a hospital setting where doctors don't like to be second guessed or anything like that. Sure, it would be better to just have a normal conversation, but if the other person is recalcitrant and holds most of the cards then a little bit of indirect-ness can be helpful.

 

Yes!  Something like this.

 

Or in our case, it's our mothers, so being able to be indirect is the best way to be respectful towards them, something we really, really want to do.  Forcing them into a different style/trying to change them is not how we choose to respect them as (adult)

children.