dog bite PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE update at post 97

[Alice]

I was told by that county health agency that if you haven't been vaccinated before, you really should get the vaccine within 24 hours of exposure, not 10 days. And that if you'd had the preventative vaccine, you still should try to get a booster within 48 hours of exposure.

 

 

If it's a dog that can be monitored and there is low risk of rabies ( a dog that belongs to a friend and not up to date on their rabies vaccine) then you can wait. But a lot of it depends on your location and the cases they are seeing, that's why it's best to contact the authorities in your area. You should begin vaccination as soon as possible, and in the case of a wild animal or an animal that can not be observed within 24 hours is ideal. However, sometimes if there is very low risk of rabies, they will recommend simply observing the dog (or other animal) for 10 days.  Observation is in conjunction with a veterinarian who knows what to look for, it isn't just an owner saying their pet looks ok. 

 

I would always recommend that someone who has had a dog or other animal bit consult the local healthy department/animal control because they are the ones to ultimately give the best advice. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Alice

[creekland]

Now, regarding rabies, can someone knock on these people's door and ask if the dog has a rabies vaccine? Maybe they can prove it has one and that ends the issue. Or can you call the police to have them check, since animal control is not answering? 

 

Only if rabies is not in the vicinity.  We live in an area where rabies is real and all this would mean is they can monitor the dog rather than euthanizing it for quick testing.

 

Quite honestly, most of us around here have learned to live with rabies being around and we take care of many matters on our own (meaning we get rid of suspected animals).  All of ours have vaccines, but if we were to report an infected animal on our property (domestic or wild) the quarantine imposed is way overboard.

[creekland]

Okay. The rabies treatment issue is now laid to rest for a while. I reached a nurse at the emergency room who led me through their protocol questions and told me that they would not start ds on rabies treatment even if I brought him in today. The key factor seemed to be that from assessing rabies pov versus aggressive dog and owner not keeping it under control, an unfenced yard where the dog charged out at passer-by in the circumstances that this happened is considered normal, not rabid behavior from the dog's pov--that it is exercising territorial aggression as it deems normal not understanding that the street is not its territory.  ... Apparently animal control will still do the 10 day rabies watch, but I am supposed to relax and not worry about the rabies aspect of it. I was also passed to a doctor who explained the risks in this area in a reassuring way. But anyway they agreed with my son that it sounds like an aggressive, not rabid, dog. That took a few phone hours, but better than spending the afternoon at hospital only to be sent home with same answers.

 

This sounds like decent advice IMO - based upon your area and knowledge about dogs.

 

Were they unconcerned about infection?

 

Are they going to have someone contact the owner about the dog?

 

Those, to me, are bigger concerns.

[catz]

If your child feels like resting and limited from a flesh wound, I would definitely be seen immediately regardless of rabies risk.  If he feels fine, I'd maybe not let him in a public pool or lake but I wouldn't be limiting much. 

[StephanieZ]

Dh is a vet . . . FWIW . . .

 

1) GO TO A DOCTOR and report the bite. It's probably OK to go tomorrow at this point, but do NOT wait longer than tomorrow. I personally would highly advise a good antibiotic AND doing rabies prophylaxis. If the doctor you see does not recommend those things and get them in motion, I would go to another doctor the same day. 

 

2) The doctor will be legally obligated to report the bite to the health department. Bring the address of the dog and a description of it. Name of owner would be good, too, if you know it. 

 

3) The health department should require the dog (assuming you are right that it is not vaccinated) to be euthanized and the head sent off to a lab to check for rabies. They might allow a quarantine instead, but depending on the locality, this can be very expensive, so the owner might opt for euthanasia. The only way your child can *safely* avoid the rabies prophylaxis is if the dog is euthanized and the head checked promptly. If you prefer the dog dead, then push for that. 

 

4) The dog should be impounded and euthanized (and then checked for rabies) for this attack. Some places don't do that. Some owners fight it. Some localities are better about getting dangerous dogs off the street. IMHO, you have a duty to protect your family and others . . . by reporting this bite . . .

 

5) Report the bite to the non-emergency line of the local law enforcement. Also Animal Control. Leave messages. Repeat daily until resolution. 

 

6) I believe the health department in many/most (all?) places can/will provide rabies prophylaxis -- not sure if it's free though. Or your insurance might cover it. It is thousands of dollars, so figure that out. Your regular DR (or even ER department) generally don't handle rabies shots. It's a specialized thing. I believe in general only health departments handle it. (Except for PRE exposure vaccines that vets and other at-risk folks often get through their professional associations/vet schools/etc . . . At great expense . . .)

 

7) If the dog is not vaccinated properly or otherwise proven (head autopsy) not to have rabies, I would NOT REST until my child had the shots. Some places are very crappy about ignoring this small-but-catastrophic risk . . . I would not accept that. Period.

 

8) Rabies is (pretty much) 100% fatal once symptoms appear. It is more common than you would think.  I wouldn't take any risks.

 

9) There are plenty of other nasty bugs that you can get from dog bites. They aren't as bad as cat bites, but still, if the bites are severe, I would absolutely want to be on good antibiotics. And of course, excellent wound care . . . If the bites are any where near hands or other joints, I would go to an ER NOW. If *any* signs of infection develop at any time, I would go to an ER immediately. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by StephanieZ

[Pen]

If anyone is curious, here's the reported cases of rabies in the US, overall, and by species (and where).

 

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdfplus/10.2460/javma.248.7.777

 

With dogs, the incidences are very, very low.

 

I would totally trust local experts about that risk and whether it's ok for the dog to be monitored rather than tested if I were feeling sympathetic to the dog or its owners.  If rabies is in the area the answer would be totally different than if it isn't.  The owners might even start to rein in their dogs if they begin to see the bigger picture associated with loose aggressive dogs.  One never knows.

 

 

...

 

deleted my reply, but want to add that for anyone who might deal with a similar situation, that link is really good!

Edited July 6, 2016 by Pen

[hornblower]

No advice for you that hasn't already been given. Your poor ds :( 



Chaining dogs is a known source of increasing dog aggression. It's banned in some communities here as it's considered an inhumane and dangerous practice. 

In future, if you have to go by this house again, I'd recommend walking by the house calmly and slowly, not jogging or riding a bike. Eyes away from the dogs, keep body sideways to the dogs.  

[gardenmom5]

 

 

And now we all know, too, ER not Urgent Care if might need rabies shots.  Never knew only ER's had to have at least the first shots on hand.  Good to know.

 

I've had too many bad experiences with urgent care MISSING things. (i.e. a tiny broken bone after dh was hit by a car while riding his bike.  . . I won't continue.)

 

  go to the ER.

 

though, my friend's family will be suing the ER for NOT following protocol to check for a heart attack in her father.  they sent him home, he went back.  twice.  he died at home.

 

 .

[Pen]

This sounds like decent advice IMO - based upon your area and knowledge about dogs.

 

Were they unconcerned about infection?

 

Are they going to have someone contact the owner about the dog?

 

Those, to me, are bigger concerns.

 

 

 

If your child feels like resting and limited from a flesh wound, I would definitely be seen immediately regardless of rabies risk.  If he feels fine, I'd maybe not let him in a public pool or lake but I wouldn't be limiting much. 

 

 

Dh is a vet . . . FWIW . . .

 

1) GO TO A DOCTOR and report the bite. It's probably OK to go tomorrow at this point, but do NOT wait longer than tomorrow. I personally would highly advise a good antibiotic AND doing rabies prophylaxis. If the doctor you see does not recommend those things and get them in motion, I would go to another doctor the same day. 

 

...k.

 

2) The doctor will be legally obligated to report the bite to the health department. Bring the address of the dog and a description of it. Name of owner would be good, too, if you know it. 

 

3) The health department should require the dog (assuming you are right that it is not vaccinated) to be euthanized and the head sent off to a lab to check for rabies. They might allow a quarantine instead, but depending on the locality, this can be very expensive, so the owner might opt for euthanasia. The only way your child can *safely* avoid the rabies prophylaxis is if the dog is euthanized and the head checked promptly. If you prefer the dog dead, then push for that. 

 

 

see below

4) The dog should be impounded and euthanized (and then checked for rabies) for this attack. Some places don't do that. Some owners fight it. Some localities are better about getting dangerous dogs off the street. IMHO, you have a duty to protect your family and others . . . by reporting this bite . . .

 

5) Report the bite to the non-emergency line of the local law enforcement. Also Animal Control. Leave messages. Repeat daily until resolution. 

 

That is being done. Initially due to rabies concern, now due to concern about an insufficiently controlled aggressive dog.

 

6) I believe the health department in many/most (all?) places can/will provide rabies prophylaxis -- not sure if it's free though. Or your insurance might cover it. It is thousands of dollars, so figure that out. Your regular DR (or even ER department) generally don't handle rabies shots. It's a specialized thing. I believe in general only health departments handle it. (Except for PRE exposure vaccines that vets and other at-risk folks often get through their professional associations/vet schools/etc . . . At great expense . . .)

 

7) If the dog is not vaccinated properly or otherwise proven (head autopsy) not to have rabies, I would NOT REST until my child had the shots. Some places are very crappy about ignoring this small-but-catastrophic risk . . . I would not accept that. Period.

 

8) Rabies is (pretty much) 100% fatal once symptoms appear. It is more common than you would think.  I wouldn't take any risks.

 

In dogs adding to that our area is close to zero in risk in terms of cases, it also is apparently the case that they know enough about how/when the virus sheds as compared to when illness symptoms in the dog would show up, and how fast symptoms come on in humans, that the 10 day observations day is really enough to be safe. This may be a different assessment if the dog were in one of the maps red dotted areas or if the location of the dog were unknown.

 

9) There are plenty of other nasty bugs that you can get from dog bites. They aren't as bad as cat bites, but still, if the bites are severe, I would absolutely want to be on good antibiotics. And of course, excellent wound care . . . If the bites are any where near hands or other joints, I would go to an ER NOW. If *any* signs of infection develop at any time, I would go to an ER immediately. 

 

The bites are significant, but not severe. And yes, if any sign of infection off to ER immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

...in our area the dog can be confined at home.  The animal control officer is who checks the dog at start and end of the quarantine... that is what happens by law in our area.  The dog could be quarantined elsewhere such as a vet's or animal shelter which is more costly, and in this case, I think, unnecessary.  I went by the property today and the dog was not out, so it is presumably already being confined. 

 

 

...

I don't particularly want to ask to have the dog euthanized, but I do want to know that it will be in better human control without lapses. I don't know how to achieve that.

 

 

The bite location above ankle on calf is such as to make it painful, particularly when standing/walking and its open wound nature makes it tend to re-open and bleed when ds moves around and does things. He basically feels fine as in not sick. He has a good novel and would probably just as soon lie around with that anyway or with an Arrow video etc.  July 4th is not a big deal for us, but not being allowed to swim, go camping, etc.  could be bigger deals. He also won't be able to skate either ice or inline until it heals a lot more

Edited July 6, 2016 by Pen

[Pen]

If it's a dog that can be monitored and there is low risk of rabies ( a dog that belongs to a friend and not up to date on their rabies vaccine) then you can wait. But a lot of it depends on your location and the cases they are seeing, that's why it's best to contact the authorities in your area. You should begin vaccination as soon as possible, and in the case of a wild animal or an animal that can not be observed within 24 hours is ideal. However, sometimes if there is very low risk of rabies, they will recommend simply observing the dog (or other animal) for 10 days.  Observation is in conjunction with a veterinarian who knows what to look for, it isn't just an owner saying their pet looks ok. 

 

I would always recommend that someone who has had a dog or other animal bit consult the local healthy department/animal control because they are the ones to ultimately give the best advice. 

 

 

Yes. I totally agree now that I know more. the problem I had is that the "authorities" in our area were mostly all closed up (including both animal control and health dept either closed or at least not answering their phone) for the holiday weekend.

 

It was only finally the ER nurse who was willing to talk with me and then to give me a number for a state office that is open even on holiday and could connect with a doctor who knew something about rabies locally  that meaningful progress got made. 

[Guest]

I guess I'm confused. There is a pretty much zero chance that he could have an always fatal disease that can be prevented by a shot? Why the hesitation?? Pretty much zero would not be good enough for me.

[goldberry]

 

  However, there is apparently only one animal control officer for an enormous county, and we are likely not going to be top priority.

 

 

 

 I think that can be done in our jurisdiction by the people who have the dog keeping it at home. 

 

 

I would think that a dog attack on a human actually would be a top priority for animal control.  What would possibly a higher priority?

 

Regarding the second part, if you are willing to wait for observation time, I'm really hoping your neighbors will comply, based on what you have said so far.

 

Good luck, OP!

[Daria]

I guess I'm confused. There is a pretty much zero chance that he could have an always fatal disease that can be prevented by a shot? Why the hesitation?? Pretty much zero would not be good enough for me.

 

From what I've read, starting after 10 days is still enough time. 

 

So, it's pretty much zero chance that the dog has it, and they're going to observe the dog for 10 days to be 100% sure. 

 

If they law enforcement fails to locate the dog and set up observation, then that's a different decision, but it sounds like there's a plan.

[goldberry]

.  Observation is in conjunction with a veterinarian who knows what to look for, it isn't just an owner saying their pet looks ok. 

 

 

 

If I were willing to take a chance of going with observation rather than testing, I would absolutely insist on this.

[StephanieZ]

I have this conversation once or twice a year . . . 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/  general info 

 

I strongly advise getting PEP beginning no later than tomorrow. The only way I'd allow my child *not* to have PEP would be if the dog was captured and proven to have been vaccinated OR in a supervised (veterinary facility or Animal Control) 10 day (minimum) quarantine OR was tested (euthanized/then tested -- which would be ideal). Period. End stop. With the quarantine, I'd begin PEP immediately and only cease at the end of a successful quarantine (or testing, in which case I'd also being PEP until test results are available).

 

Health departments and the CDC do $$ calculations on the cost/benefits of PEP for various incidents. I, personally, would not permit my child to take a 1/100,000 risk of dying to save me (or a govt agency) a couple thousand bucks. Not worth the risk, to me. I'd fight until my kid had the PEP. Period. 

 

Yes, rabies is way down in dogs in the US because of good vaccination protocols. They still get it. From wildlife. An unprovoked attack, from an unvaccinated dog, with significant to severe bite wounds, raises the chances of that particular bite transmitting rabies up an awful lot from the "near zero" risk from a provoked attack by a vaccinated dog. 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/resources/contacts.html -- state by state contacts

 

I am *well* aware that many health departments and human medical practitioners are *much too* reluctant to initiate PEP. It is a money thing. Truly. Right here in a CDC report (along with lots of other interesting info) . . . To be brutally honest, many/most human medical doctors know diddly shit about rabies and really don't think about it at all. Vets think about it a lot, because they and their patients (and owners of patients) are exposed to it a lot, so they think about it. Rabies is a "zebra" to human doctors; but to vets, rabies is a horse . . . A very, very dangerous horse.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr5703.pdf  

 

FWIW, vets *routinely* deal with medical staff that are simply uninformed and wrong about rabies risks. Yep, only a couple human cases a year in the US makes it low chance that that one health department is going to hit the rabies jackpot, so why not save some (many) thousands a year by denying PEP to those exposed. Sorry, but it's not a risk worth taking IMHO.

 

(((hugs))) and hope all heals well, with or without PEP.

 

 

[StephanieZ]

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/220967-treatment#d10 

 

[Pen]

I would think that a dog attack on a human actually would be a top priority for animal control.  What would possibly a higher priority?

 

Regarding the second part, if you are willing to wait for observation time, I'm really hoping your neighbors will comply, based on what you have said so far.

 

Good luck, OP!

 

 

 I would not think this would be the only domesticated animal to attack a human over the holiday weekend. Don't know if they'd go by date of attack or severity but either way I bet we are not top of the list.

 

Spoke in person to someone at Animal Control and my guess was correct. We are officially reported, but are not top of list from bite incidents over weekend. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Pen

[creekland]

 

And he is already getting annoyed with wound exams and dressing changes. He was downstairs for awhile and then went up to his room with some door slamming. and "I'm fine; leave me alone" type comments.

 

If you want another minority thought here... at 14 he is old enough to be taking care of this himself if he wants to IMO.  My mom started letting me take care of my own things when I was 9 or 10.  I'd fallen off a pony and gotten dragged for a bit down a road destroying clothes and skin, etc.  She mainly pointed to the bathroom and told me to clean it up.

 

That said, I'd be sure he knew a bit about first aid and what he was doing.  (I suppose I learned from other small mishaps earlier than that fall.)  You can let him know the basics about infection, etc, or you could let him look at an approved google site to learn for himself.  Let him know you're willing to take him to get antibiotics if he needs them, but many 14 year olds like having responsibility for themselves and can do a really good job.  They need training someday in order to care for themselves in a couple more years, so...  Many kids at that age are taking care of their own health issues similar to those - including bites.  At school it's often one of the things they will talk about with me. 

 

And of course, you're still watching overall - just from far more of a distance.  If he's not doing a decent job, or if you suspect anything, you can overrule.  There are a couple of times I've insisted kids go see our school nurse...

 

Personally, I still see more of an issue from letting an aggressive dog remain that close to you.  Dogs who bite and aren't well trained often keep biting and can up the ante next time.  The first time they are practicing.  They learn and get bolder if not really held to task with obedience training.  This was not an unprovoked attack in that dog's eyes (why rabies isn't really a major concern).  Someone was invading his/her territory.  They successfully defended it.  They didn't even start with a little nip, but a full blown bite.  Now they know they can do it again.  Who invades it next time?  A younger kid?  An older person?  That's scary with a far greater risk IMO.

[poppy]

 I would not think this would be the only domesticated animal to attack a human over the holiday weekend. Don't know if they'd go by date of attack or severity but either way I bet we are not top of the list.

 

Doesn't really matter.  If the neighbor (human) punched you in the face, it wouldn't be the only assault that day, or the worst...... but I'd still call the police.  

I am sorry you are in the position, but, that dog is going to bite more people.

 

Do the owners know about the bite? It's possible they think he is a tough guard dog but would be horrified to know he actually attacked unprovoked when loose.  I don't think I'd approach them directly at this point if they DON'T know, but if they do, hopefully they are taking action to keep the dog locked up.

[gardenmom5]

you say there incidence of rabies in your area is low. how big is  that area?  that needs defining.  you said you do NOT know if that dog lives at that address or belonged to a visitor. if so, from what area did the dog come? what is the incidence where the dog originates?  you don't know.

 

 

[Pen]

I guess I'm confused. There is a pretty much zero chance that he could have an always fatal disease that can be prevented by a shot? Why the hesitation?? Pretty much zero would not be good enough for me.

 

 

Hope you saw reply before I deleted it. If you didn't and want to see it, I kept a copy and can repost and then re-delete.  

 

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Pen

[Pen]

you say there incidence of rabies in your area is low. how big is  that area?  that needs defining.  you said you do NOT know if that dog lives at that address or belonged to a visitor. if so, from what area did the dog come? what is the incidence where the dog originates?  you don't know.

 

Pacific Northwest.  

 

...

Edited July 5, 2016 by Pen

[Pen]

Could the focus of this thread,  please change now away from rabies, which is currently settled for this situation that I face--not to be generalized to any situation that any other person may face.

 

 

 

Does anyone have any idea on  how to word things with animal control --both on written form that I have to fill out, and when we get to talk to animal control officer, that would make it likely that this dog, or others that live at or stay at, its property would be kept in control so as not to have another bite incident for ds or anyone else going by on the road? ...

Edited July 5, 2016 by Pen

[OneStepAtATime]

No suggestions but hugs.

[goldberry]

 I would not think this would be the only domesticated animal to attack a human over the holiday weekend. Don't know if they'd go by date of attack or severity but either way I bet we are not top of the list.

 

Our very large county goes months without an animal-human bite.  Maybe you're right, but that seems very odd.

[TranquilMind]

Dog needs to be put down immediately.  It's a biter and that won't change.

 

If you don't go to the ER, I would be watching that wound like a hawk, while demanding they quarantine the offending animal for the 10 days. 

 

I think you should go get an antibiotics prescription at the very least.  I have not read every response, so maybe you did. 

[Anne in CA]

Are your neighbors growing pot? Is that why you think they would just have another aggressive dog? Because that is not cool. Your children live there and the dog may become the least of your problems. The police HATE to get involved with any crime that comes with pot growing where I live because the paperwork is so extensive, so that seems to me to be why the police made sure you had to contact animal control. Ignoring outdoor growing won't make this better.

[hornblower]

I have a pretty big tolerance for biting dogs. I've lived with biting dogs and I don't think a dog bite is an immediate euthanasia. 

BUT - I have pretty much zero tolerance for chained dogs, untrained dogs, lawn ornament dogs, dogs left in yards, coming & going dogs, dogs belonging to deadbeats and druggies. That dog will unfortunately probably end up having to be pts because of its loser owners. All the other dogs should be removed from the property, taken in care by a no kill shelter or a responsible rescue, vetted, assessed, and if suitable, rehomed.  

The situations you're describing are pretty much always abysmal for the dogs and more often than not border on cruelty to animals.  

In your report, write exactly what happened. Try to remove judgement or what you think or whether you think the dog was aggessive or threatening or guarding. Just describe. This is actually quite hard to do but it will go something like this: 

I was riding my bike at a normal speed past this address. A brown short haired dog with a white patch and white socks (ie whatever it looked like) appeared on my right/left/in front.  The dog was medium/small/large - about the size of an average (insert known dog breed here). Add any other distinguishing characterstics, collar, ear shape, tail shape. 

The dog was running/walking/stalking. 

The dog did/did not make any noise. (if it did, describe the noise. Was there growling, barking, whining...before, during, after the attack) 

I did _______. 

The dog did: Jumped/grabbed/bit once/scraped its paws on my leg/jumped at my leg/jumped at my arm. The dog bit once/twice/numerous times. 

Also describe what ended the bite. 

 

What are your city ordinances? DO you have a vicious dog bylaw? 

Edited July 5, 2016 by hornblower

[EndOfOrdinary]

We are in a rural county in WA. We used to live inner city in Portland OR. In the city the laws were really spelled out, but out here if the victim openly says "I do not want the pet euthanized" that carries a lot of weight. I would just write it very clearly at the bottom of your statement.

 

Something to the effect of : "It is important to me that the owners take higher precautions and contain their pet. I do not wish for this animal to be euthanized. The owners can make that decision. "

[Annie G]

I guess my issue with coming right out and saying that I don't want the dog to be euthanized is that I would feel really awful if the dog goes on to seriously maim another child. I would feel as if I could have prevented it. But it would be difficult to demand that the dog be put down when you suspect it would be replaced with another aggressive dog. 

 

Is it possible that the people living there are renters?  If so, maybe contact their landlord...or animal control might even do that.  As a landlord, I would not want a tenant with an aggressive dog.  If they own the property, I guess you're stuck with them. 

 

A stiff fine might help, and calling animal control EVERY time you see a dog of theirs off their property. 

 

Hope your son recovers quickly!

[gardenmom5]

familiarize yourself with your state's laws regarding dog bites.  use that information in any written communication with the police or animal control.

here's washington's.  https://dogbitelaw.com/statutory-strict-liability-state/washington-state-dog-bite-law

 

 

[Pen]

From what I've read, starting after 10 days is still enough time. 

 

So, it's pretty much zero chance that the dog has it, and they're going to observe the dog for 10 days to be 100% sure. 

 

If they law enforcement fails to locate the dog and set up observation, then that's a different decision, but it sounds like there's a plan.

 

 

Right. And it turns out that what dog it is, is far more clear than I realized once ds talked to Animal Control himself.

[Pen]

Yup, ER, sorry. Dog bites can have NASTY bacteria. If it's as bad as you are making it sound (resting, etc) then he probably needs antibiotics. Get it checked, get on antibiotics, bandage it up, and carry on with life. 

 

Now, regarding rabies, can someone knock on these people's door and ask if the dog has a rabies vaccine? Maybe they can prove it has one and that ends the issue. Or can you call the police to have them check, since animal control is not answering? 

 

Update:

Police would not get involved in this, but good idea.

 

The presumptive dog owner was not present and other people around by time I could talk to anyone did not know what was going on.

 

Animal Control is now on it.  We'll have more of an answer on this...maybe tomorrow, or at least eventually.

[Pen]

Only if rabies is not in the vicinity.  We live in an area where rabies is real and all this would mean is they can monitor the dog rather than euthanizing it for quick testing.

 

Quite honestly, most of us around here have learned to live with rabies being around and we take care of many matters on our own (meaning we get rid of suspected animals).  All of ours have vaccines, but if we were to report an infected animal on our property (domestic or wild) the quarantine imposed is way overboard.

 

 

What is the quarantine in your area?

[Pen]

I guess my issue with coming right out and saying that I don't want the dog to be euthanized is that I would feel really awful if the dog goes on to seriously maim another child. I would feel as if I could have prevented it. But it would be difficult to demand that the dog be put down when you suspect it would be replaced with another aggressive dog. 

 

Is it possible that the people living there are renters?  If so, maybe contact their landlord...or animal control might even do that.  As a landlord, I would not want a tenant with an aggressive dog.  If they own the property, I guess you're stuck with them. 

 

A stiff fine might help, and calling animal control EVERY time you see a dog of theirs off their property. 

 

Hope your son recovers quickly!

 

 

Update:

 

When I spoke to Animal Control in person now rather than by voice mail, there were two options. One was to start legal proceedings which could end with the dog being ordered destroyed (or not, depending on the decision of a judge). The other option was for the animal control officer who will be going out to start the quarantine and also to talk with the owner about dog care, safety, etc.   I opted for the latter option, adding that I wanted not only a discussion about the care and restraint of the dog that did the biting, but also of other dogs who may be visiting the property, which they said he will do when he gets there.

 

It turned out that ds was in shaken up state when I first talked with him, but when animal control talked with him today, he knows what dog it is and who the owner is (or if not the official owner, at least who walks the dog and basically cares for the dog). The presumptive owner has been ill, thus the dog has not been in the care of the person who probably most cares about it and also has the ability to control it properly. 

 

I would feel really awful if the dog went on to bite and maim anyone, child or adult, but I also would feel awful to have a person who is ill's dog companion put down because someone else who was supposed to be watching it while he was in the hospital didn't do that properly.

[Annie G]

The two options sound better than what I was thinking. I thought they would recommend the dog be euthanized unless you intervened. This sounds better- Animal Control sounds like they're on it. 

 

Was the earlier bite you mentioned also while the dog was under someone else's care? Because if not, the dog is simply aggressive and not just reacting to a new caretaker.  

 

 

[Pen]

About whether to go to urgent care or ER -- you should know that only ERs have the rabies shots. It's the law.

 

 

Just to add to this...   I learned that in my area not all ERs have the rabies shots either.  Calling and finding out where to go before starting to drive somewhere on an assumption would be something I'd do if this ever comes up again--which I hope it won't. No point heading to nearest ER, only to learn that one that has the right stuff is farther and in another direction.

[Pen]

The two options sound better than what I was thinking. I thought they would recommend the dog be euthanized unless you intervened. This sounds better- Animal Control sounds like they're on it. 

 

Was the earlier bite you mentioned also while the dog was under someone else's care? Because if not, the dog is simply aggressive and not just reacting to a new caretaker.  

 

 

No idea. A neighbor told me about the earlier bite. I assume the dog is aggressive--that is my working assumption. This is an area with its share of aggressive dogs. 

 

Issue is control of the aggressive dog so that kids and others can be safe on the road. I don't think another caretaker made the dog bite in reaction to care. I think another caretaker let the dog loose without supervision--and probably without ability to recall the dog even if it had been being supervised.  Ds says the dog has behaved itself when its usual owner or caretaker is around. I gather that (though this could be a misunderstanding on my part) they have passed by each other with the owner walking the dog and ds on bike with no issues.

[Annie G]

Educate me- if the dog is aggressive and has bitten at least twice, will a discussion with animal control make it safe? It would seem that the dog would need at least some training, and surely an evaluation to see if it's too aggressive to be safe around the neighborhood residents.  I'm a cat person so I really don't know. 

[gardenmom5]

Educate me- if the dog is aggressive and has bitten at least twice, will a discussion with animal control make it safe? It would seem that the dog would need at least some training, and surely an evaluation to see if it's too aggressive to be safe around the neighborhood residents.  I'm a cat person so I really don't know. 

 

there are places in WA where it's  two-bites and the dog is out.  it has to be moved or destroyed.  it's a safety issue.

[maize]

What is the quarantine in your area?

I don't know about Creekland but when our cats were exposed to a rabid bat they had to be quarantined at home for 45 days (after receiving a booster). If they had not been fully vaccinated they would have had to be put down or quarantined at our expense at animal control for six months.

[creekland]

What is the quarantine in your area?

 

90 days of no critter movement in/out of property if animals are vaccinated.  180 days if they aren't.  Technically, animals can probably come in, but once they do, they can't leave.

 

For barns that do showing, trail riding, or basic sales... this really crimps things.  One of our neighbors found this out the hard way by sending in a rabid critter to be tested.  They didn't check with us (or other neighbors) about the "local protocol" first, but they're in on it now.

 

The super silly thing is it's only the property where the affected critter was killed that gets the quarantine.  Properties right next door are not affected.  Sure... the critter was only on that property - never left.   :glare:   We don't have huge places around here.  Our neighbor only had like 3 acres... right next to ours.

 

We use the SH! method around here.  Shoot, Shovel, & Shut Up (except letting neighbors know if any suspected animal is seen or taken care of).  Plus, we keep every single critter vaccinated for Rabies.  It would be foolish not to.  If a human were to come into blood contact (open wound) with anything, we'd take it seriously, but honestly?  We might fudge the actual location.  I don't know.  We've never had that happen.  We use gloves with the "shovel" part and won't let anyone do it that has even a healing cut.

 

Fortunately, it's been a few years since we've heard of an incident, so perhaps the disease has abated some.  Nonetheless, if we see anything suspect, we take care of it.  It's not going to survive anyway.  Compassion is putting it down.  If we're wrong and the suspected animal didn't have it... well, it'd have had to be put down to be tested anyway.  The critter can't "win" really.

 

I don't know about Creekland but when our cats were exposed to a rabid bat they had to be quarantined at home for 45 days (after receiving a booster). If they had not been fully vaccinated they would have had to be put down or quarantined at our expense at animal control for six months.

 

In my youth a farming neighbor had a cow come down with rabies.  Every single cat and kitten on his place were rounded up and put down (none had been vaccinated).  His dogs were quarantined - as were his cows, but none of the rest of them were affected.

[Pen]

Educate me- if the dog is aggressive and has bitten at least twice, will a discussion with animal control make it safe? It would seem that the dog would need at least some training, and surely an evaluation to see if it's too aggressive to be safe around the neighborhood residents.  I'm a cat person so I really don't know. 

 

 

I don't think that what you are not understanding is related to how a discussion with Animal Control could change a dog from aggressive to non-aggressive.  Rather it is the dynamics of living in a rural area, and what sorts of dogs there may be, and interactions between humans, and what will make the basics of ongoing life be okay.

[Annie G]

I don't think that what you are not understanding is related to how a discussion with Animal Control could change a dog from aggressive to non-aggressive.  Rather it is the dynamics of living in a rural area, and what sorts of dogs there may be, and interactions between humans, and what will make the basics of ongoing life be okay.

 

Yes, you're probably right. I live right in town and haven't seen a dog off a leash in at least a year. It's a rare occurrence here.  But thanks of the info- we're planning to retire in a couple of years to a more rural locale and I better learn about dogs. 

[Pen]

Yes, you're probably right. I live right in town and haven't seen a dog off a leash in at least a year. It's a rare occurrence here.  But thanks of the info- we're planning to retire in a couple of years to a more rural locale and I better learn about dogs. 

 

 

Rules, behaviors and attitudes are, I'm sure, different even in different rural areas.  You could learn more about dogs, but also more about the laws and typical actual practice where you might go... and types of dogs. It is true that any dog can bite, but we are in a pit bull heavy region and currently even if once they were sweet family dogs, they tend to get in a lot of biting, and / or currently give some hint that people in the area want "tough" (aggressive?) dogs--rather than, say, what someone who gets a golden retriever is probably wanting--even though the golden could be aggressive and the pit bull could be very non-aggressive.

 

If I'd started into the litigation direction I think all I would have managed to do is to start a feud, but having taken the "nice" approach, and learned more about the situation, it sounds more and more like a problem with no good solution. 

 

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST EITHER.

[Pen]

UPDATE and new direction for any more thoughts people here may have:

 

The submission to Animal Control part is done. They took info by phone, so there was nothing to fill out by me, and most of the important questions were answered by ds who was the one there and bitten, not me.

 

The owner stopped by and told me various things, including that dog is not up to date on vaccines, but did have at least one rabies vaccine.

 

Other things, while in the nature of trying to be good neighbors rather than have a feud, are concerning in terms of not knowing what sort of control can actually be maintained. To me, also of concern was that the dog was in vehicle with owner and gave the impression of being an intimidating looking, but very mellow, calm dog-- which may lure people perhaps including Animal Control, into thinking the dog is basically non-aggressive.

 

Owner said dog is non-aggressive to people it knows and suggested that ds meet the dog, give it treats etc. after ds is better.  Ds does not want to, and I am not sure I am comfortable with that even if he did want to. Also dog is supposed to be on quarantine period right now, though I'm not sure Animal Control visited and officially started it yet. 

 

 

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE

Edited July 7, 2016 by Pen

[kitten18]

I cannot comprehend that the dog is not in quarantine.

[Pen]

I think Animal Control had not gotten there yet. 

 

It is probably the first time the dog has been reported for biting--or at least with this owner. I also learned that he was not its original owner so it may have had prior unknown bites (my thought on the prior bites possibility, not what the owner said).  I don't think the law where I am is an automatic 2 bite rule. Though that could be a good idea to take the issue away from the victim and create less animosity in a neighborhood if it is just what happens as imposed by more distant law enforcement. 

 

It may also, where we are, differ by county or by city rules if any.

 

 

[Spryte]

Pen, how is your son? Is the bite healing well?

 

He's been on my mind. I had a friend in college who was bitten, and it wasn't fun. :(

[mamiof5]

I hope your son is doing well and he heals well (no marks, scars, complications etc). I'm sorry this happened, must be really stressful 😞