Painful Parent- Adult Child Religious Conflict more widespread today?

[mamiof5]

Why are these the options that come to mind ? Do you not imagine there could be girls and boys in highschool genuinely struggling with their sexual identity and looking for support ?

 

I wonder whether the reaction they received - 'you're just looking for attention, you're just a drama queen, liar!' - had anything to do with them renouncing their identity subsequently.

 

Your posts often come across as caring towards individuals, which is why i am surprised to see you posting as if these kids are the stereotypes.

I wasn't there, so I'll never know what the situation was. Sorry if I came across like that. Have heard in different discussions, not only with DD, that sometimes it really seems or sounds like it's a popularity thing. As I had said before, not always of course, but maybe in some cases. Who knows? Edited April 27, 2016 by mamiof5

[mamiof5]

You didn't know any men and women who were openly married to each other? You didn't attend any weddings, or watch any princess movies? You didn't go to a prom where boys brought girls or vice versa?

 

Of course I did. Never saw anyone trying to wear an "I'm straight" sign. Yes, seeing a married couple kind of gives away their sexual orientation, but a highschool kid disrupting a class to announce he's bisexual and just wanted everyone to know? Hmmm...different situation

[Amy in NH]

I read something once that most kids have gender identity issues when young. If allowed no influence, most will go on to be accepting of the gender they are as adults. But it seems like now, when a kid shows a preference people talk about it. They end up believing this truth about themselves, whether it would have been true or not. If society accepted that people may have leanings one way or the other until they are older(so no pressure to choose) then perhaps it wouldn't feel like everyone is having gender issues b/c they would have the time work it out.

 

I doubt it. Out of my four kids, only one had gender identity issues at a young age. Then they tried to live as their assigned-at-birth gender for ten years before they just couldn't live that lie anymore. It didn't "work out" of them.

[Tsuga]

Who on earth is denying anyone anything? Last I heard, it's been legal to do whatever you want with whomever you want for quite a long time. Pretty much always, if you didn't want the piece of paper, and certainly even if you do now.

 

You are quite wrong about that.

 

It was illegal for men to have sex with other men in some US states through the 1990s.

 

It was illegal for two men or women to care for each other as partners or spouses until just two years ago, in many states.

 

It is currently illegal on some states for trans people to pee. Anywhere.

[Scarlett]

If my dd gets married, I'll be sitting right up front. It doesn't damage my relationship with God to support my dd if she chooses to do so.

Interesting.

[Scarlett]

Oh, please. Christian denominations condone all kinds of sins when it's inconvenient to condemn them. Gluttony, anyone? I haven't seen any religious groups trying to legislate against obesity, or refuse to allow obese people to marry in the church, because it would hurt their membership and their bottom line.

 

Church organizations make money by riling up their members about social wedge issues. The anti-gay sentiment in the church today has nothing to do with theology. It's political and financial.

I can't speak for other religions but that is not true for mine.

[Scarlett]

What if your child decides they're not your religion or atheist? What if they don't baptize their children? Do you not have a relationship with them any more? Do you give them a regular lecture on their wrong doing? At some point you need to decide off you are going to love your adult child the best way you know how or if you are going to put yourself in a place that will probably make it so your adult child no longer is going to have any sort of relationship with you because their beliefs differ.

I have a 16 year old. So I will keep you all posted.

[Mergath]

I can't speak for other religions but that is not true for mine.

 

It is most certainly true for Christianity. I'm assuming that is your religion. Or has there been some big Christian movement to condemn overeating that I missed? There are far more people guilty of committing gluttony than of having gay sex in the Christian church. If sin is sin in God's eyes, why are churches ignoring the ones committed by so many of their members and focusing on the ones practiced by a tiny minority?

 

Of course, preaching against gluttony isn't nearly as profitable as demonizing the LGBTQ community, is it?

[mamiof5]

As for the "being cool" part: I do not really believe it is "cool" to be homosexual or - even more so - transgendered. Making yourself a target of taunts, ridicule and violence to appear "cool"? I don't think so.

We don't know what goes on in certain scenarios. And I wonder if it also varies per location. Announcing it, getting " high fives!", "atta boy!", " you are so cool ", " OMG, I can't believe you did that", "Did you see the teacher's reaction??? Ha, ha, ha! That was so funny". Dd witnessed situations like this (a couple years ago, she's no longer in highschool). People around our area, whose kids go to Junior high and highschool, have heard about it too. And then they discuss it in social media (Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat etc), and the " he or she is so cool" topic lasts for a while, even after the person has retracted themselves and realized they were straight after all. So?? I know it varies, and each situation is different... BUT, there could be a possibility that it could be just an "I want to be cool" phase. Edited April 27, 2016 by mamiof5

[Scarlett]

My religion and faith are very serious to me. Changing my mind because my child wants to go against my religious beliefs seems dismissive of all I've lived and worked for. Something doesn't cease to be wrong because my son wants to do it.

[Scarlett]

It is most certainly true for Christianity. I'm assuming that is your religion. Or has there been some big Christian movement to condemn overeating that I missed? There are far more people guilty of committing gluttony than of having gay sex in the Christian church. If sin is sin in God's eyes, why are churches ignoring the ones committed by so many of their members and focusing on the ones practiced by a tiny minority?

 

Of course, preaching against gluttony isn't nearly as profitable as demonizing the LGBTQ community, is it?

I have no idea what you mean by profitable.

 

But my religion does condemn gluttony. It is a little more difficult to define than say adultery.

[justasque]

Of course I did. Never saw anyone trying to wear an "I'm straight" sign. Yes, seeing a married couple kind of gives away their sexual orientation, but a highschool kid disrupting a class to announce he's bisexual and just wanted everyone to know? Hmmm...different situation

 

It's important to understand the context of what you're describing.  For historical reasons, it's very important for the GLBT community to be visible.  

Visibility has changed the way these folks are treated.  Visibility means that Christian mom who finds herself with a gay kid can nowadays often find a family in her congregation who has walked a similar path, who can support her as she struggles to reconcile her child and her faith.  

 

That said, "disrupting a class to announce he's bisexual" is generally not appropriate behavior in a school setting, regardless of the particulars of the orientation that's being announced.  It's just as inappropriate to disrupt a class to declare your feelings for the opposite sex.  Except perhaps for a Promposal.  Because everyone loves a good Promposal.

[Mergath]

We don't know what goes on in certain scenarios. And I wonder if it also varies per location. Announcing it, getting " high fives!", "atta boy!", " you are so cool ", " OMG, I can't believe you did that", "Did you see the teacher's reaction??? Ha, ha, ha! That was so funny". Dd witnessed situations like this (a couple years ago, she's no longer in highschool). People around our area, whose kids go to Junior high and highschool, have heard about it too. And then they discuss it in social media (Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat etc), and the " he or she is so cool" topic lasts for a while, even after the person has retracted themselves and realized they were straight after all. So?? I know it varies, and each situation is different... BUT, there could be a possibility that it could be just an "I want to be cool" phase.

 

Yes, how awful that kids are supportive of their friends who come out publicly. You'd think there was a stigma against gay people or something.

 

:001_rolleyes:

Edited April 27, 2016 by Mergath

[Mergath]

I have no idea what you mean by profitable.

 

But my religion does condemn gluttony. It is a little more difficult to define than say adultery.

 

 

Really? Anyone obese should be guilty of that particular sin, right? I mean, God wouldn't make it so that someone was born with a biological predisposition toward something the bible condemns as sin, would He? He would NEVER create a person with brain chemistry that compels them to drastically overeat when the bible says that's wrong, right?

 

I truly hope I don't have to point out the irony here.

[Χά�ων]

My religion and faith are very serious to me. Changing my mind because my child wants to go against my religious beliefs seems dismissive of all I've lived and worked for. Something doesn't cease to be wrong because my son wants to do it.

 

I am confused by the bolded. Your beliefs are yours not your child's. Or am I missing something?

[MistyMountain]

I am a little confused on why you have to follow everything a particular denomination does or you are turning your back on religion. You can mostly relate to a particular denomination but disagree with how they interpret different scriptures or rules they say member should follow. I know a lot of people in my denomination growing up who believe in the God of Christianity and a lot of the tenants of their denomination but they do not agree with all of them. Some of it may be just picking what they want to follow but it can also be honest reflection that led to a different interpretation. There are so many ways to interpret the bible if you were a bible follower. Look at all the denominations out there which show there are so many different ways interpret things. Why would you shun someone who interprets something different or has different beliefs. There are values I hope my children will have but as long as they are not hurting or harming others I can accept that they may feel differently about things I feel is very important.

Edited April 27, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Joker]

My religion and faith are very serious to me. Changing my mind because my child wants to go against my religious beliefs seems dismissive of all I've lived and worked for. Something doesn't cease to be wrong because my son wants to do it.

My religion and faith are very serious to me as well. I just don't believe it means I can't be supportive of my gay teen. In fact, I feel it means the opposite and I don't understand other Christians parents who aren't supportive of their children.

[Scarlett]

Really? Anyone obese should be guilty of that particular sin, right? I mean, God wouldn't make it so that someone was born with a biological predisposition toward something the bible condemns as sin, would He? He would NEVER create a person with brain chemistry that compels them to drastically overeat when the bible says that's wrong, right?

 

I truly hope I don't have to point out the irony here.

I get your attempt at irony but it doesn't work for me. We all need food to exist. We don't all need sex to exist.

[Scarlett]

My religion and faith are very serious to me as well. I just don't believe it means I can't be supportive of my gay teen. In fact, I feel it means the opposite and I don't understand other Christians parents who aren't supportive of their children.

How can you support anyone in something that goes against your religious beliefs?

[MistyMountain]

I saw a good documentary on Netflix called Cause the Bible Told Me So recently. It dealt with religious famines who had children come out and how the families either came to acceptance or not. It was done very respectfully and really explored the various scriptures. Some families really reflected on what those scriptures were saying and realized that it really was not condeming homosexuality. Others parents did not change their religious views but came to accept their children even if they did not understand it completely and one family accepted the child but never came to terms with it and they did not accept the partner as a partner.

[Scarlett]

I am a little confused on why you have to follow everything a particular denomination does or you are turning your back on religion. You can mostly relate to a particular denomination but disagree with how they interpret different scriptures or rules they say member should follow. I know a lot if people in my denomination growing up who believe in the God of Christianity and a lot of the tenants of their denomination but they do not agree with all of them. Some of it may be just picking what they want to follow but it can also be honest reflection that led to a different interpretation. There are so many ways to interpret the bible if you were a bible follower. Look at all the denominations out there which show there are so many different ways interpret things.

I would not be part of a religion if I disagreed with part of their beliefs or teachings.

[justasque]

I mean, I guess, typing all that out... how would a Catholic parent handle a child who decides to shack up with someone with no intention of ever marrying?  I don't think that's a particularly new problem.  I mean, I have a nominally Catholic acquaintance who divorced her husband a little over a year ago and just had a kid with another guy....

Generally, Catholics handle this kind of thing with love, and with emphasis on family.  Members of strong extended families embrace each other, include each other, love each other.  It's that simple.  Everyone is at the Thanksgiving table, and what they're doing with who sexually isn't really anyone else's business.  And if children arrive, regardless of the details of their conception, they are welcomed and blessed and included and loved.  That doesn't mean everyone approves of everything everyone else is doing, but it's not necessary to dwell on it.  Morals are shared by example, which is actually very powerful.

Edited April 27, 2016 by justasque

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Of course I did. Never saw anyone trying to wear an "I'm straight" sign. Yes, seeing a married couple kind of gives away their sexual orientation, but a highschool kid disrupting a class to announce he's bisexual and just wanted everyone to know? Hmmm...different situation

 

So this is how you imagine things happen?

[Scarlett]

I am confused by the bolded. Your beliefs are yours not your child's. Or am I missing something?

Supporting my child, or anyone, in what I believe to be wrong...that would be changing my mind.

[Scarlett]

I am confused by the bolded. Your beliefs are yours not your child's. Or am I missing something?

Supporting my child, or anyone, in what I believe to be wrong...that would be changing my mind.

[catz]

Supporting my child, or anyone, in what I believe to be wrong...that would be changing my mind.

 

What do you think it is your duty to do if your adult child follows a path your religion doesn't condone?  I'm honestly curious. 

[MistyMountain]

I would not be part of a religion if I disagreed with part of their beliefs or teachings.

That is you. Lots of others feel differently and nothing is wrong with them sticking with a religion even if they disagreed on say the Catholics saying it is fine to be Gay but you should be celebate your entire life if you are. There is certainly room for interpretation in the scriptures related to that.

Edited April 27, 2016 by MistyMountain

[justasque]

How can you support anyone in something that goes against your religious beliefs?

 

 

I would not be part of a religion if I disagreed with part of their beliefs or teachings.

 

Not every Christian denomination requires believers to agree with every teaching.  Catholicism has a long history of respect for individual conscience.  Followers are not expected to be in lockstep; they are expected to study and reflect and pray and think for themselves.

[Χά�ων]

Supporting my child, or anyone, in what I believe to be wrong...that would be changing my mind.

I am not sure I am explaining myself well. Hmm. 

 

What does what your child does or believes have to do with your beliefs? That still does not sound right. Can you expand a bit on what you mean? 

[Luckymama]

My parents, who died way too soon, were Very Catholic. Yet when a sibling came out as bi, my parents said "you are our child. We love you and support you. We want you to love and to be loved,"

 

When another family member announced she (at that time) was trans, my parents were supportive throughout his transition. They would be so happy to see him and his joyfilled life today.

 

I think of their example every day, especially since one of our children is bi.

[Mergath]

I get your attempt at irony but it doesn't work for me. We all need food to exist. We don't all need sex to exist.

 

But if gluttony is a sin, God would never create a person with a strong biological predisposition toward overeating, right? We all need food, but we don't need to eat to excess to survive. Yet there are people who have medical conditions that compel them toward gluttony, sometimes so powerfully that they literally can't resist. If gluttony is a sin, that's not exactly fair.

 

Or does it not count as sin if a person is born with a biological compulsion to do something?

[catz]

That is you. Lots of others feel differently and nothing is wrong with them sticking with a religion even if they disagreed on say the Catholics saying it is fine to be Gay but you should be celebate your entire life if you are. There is certainly room for interpretation in the scriptures related to that.

 

Oh, I do totally agree with this.  I live in an area with many liberal Catholics and I'm mostly related to liberal Catholics.  They are absolutely fine with gay marriage and who openly voted for it and put signs in their yards, etc.

 

I'm no longer Catholic (and still have a great relationship with my family BTW) so I won't comment further.

 

[Scarlett]

What do you think it is your duty to do if your adult child follows a path your religion doesn't condone? I'm honestly curious.

Not condone it. Not attend a homosexual wedding. Not allow a live in girlfriend to sleep at my house with my son. Not smile and nod if my son begins an affair with a married woman. No give him money to go gambling.

 

I won't be complicit with my silence.

 

But at this point it would be more than that. My 16 has made a vow to my religion....so it is now his religion too.

[Scarlett]

But if gluttony is a sin, God would never create a person with a strong biological predisposition toward overeating, right? We all need food, but we don't need to eat to excess to survive. Yet there are people who have medical conditions that compel them toward gluttony, sometimes so powerfully that they literally can't resist. If gluttony is a sin, that's not exactly fair.

 

Or does it not count as sin if a person is born with a biological compulsion to do something?

God doesn't ask more of us than we can manage. All of us are capable of controlling ourselves and not acting on feelings.

[Scarlett]

I am not sure I am explaining myself well. Hmm.

 

What does what your child does or believes have to do with your beliefs? That still does not sound right. Can you expand a bit on what you mean?

Maybe I am not explaining myself. I am not going to support anyone in what I belive to be wrong behavior.

[Mergath]

God doesn't ask more of us than we can manage. All of us are capable of controlling ourselves and not acting on feelings.

 

So people with eating disorders should just suck it up and have a little more self control?

[Scarlett]

Not every Christian denomination requires believers to agree with every teaching. Catholicism has a long history of respect for individual conscience. Followers are not expected to be in lockstep; they are expected to study and reflect and pray and think for themselves.

Interesting.

[Scarlett]

So people with eating disorders should just suck it up and have a little more self control?

Eating disorders are illnesses.

[Scarlett]

That is you. Lots of others feel differently and nothing is wrong with them sticking with a religion even if they disagreed on say the Catholics saying it is fine to be Gay but you should be celebate your entire life if you are. There is certainly room for interpretation in the scriptures related to that.

Well yeah, of course it is me. I wasn't speaking for anyone else.

[Χά�ων]

God doesn't ask more of us than we can manage. All of us are capable of controlling ourselves and not acting on feelings.

What about Prader-Willi syndrome?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prader-willi-syndrome/basics/definition/con-20028982

[Katy]

Not condone it. Not attend a homosexual wedding. Not allow a live in girlfriend to sleep at my house with my son. Not smile and nod if my son begins an affair with a married woman. No give him money to go gambling.

 

I won't be complicit with my silence.

 

But at this point it would be more than that. My 16 has made a vow to my religion....so it is now his religion too.

 

The problem with this, even if you're absolutely certain being or acting gay is morally wrong, is that it's not your job to be the Holy Spirit for your child.  It's your job to raise them and to love them and to help them understand the complexities in the world, not to shame them into behaving the way you want.  Especially not when this particular sin is one you shame, while you overlook others.  Picking and choosing is hypocrisy, yet with some sins it's easy to see that you're supposed to treat one another with grace.  With others, ones that are more personally horrifying to you, it's easier to justify being judgmental.

 

I don't think the things Jesus was scratching in the dirt when he stopped the people from stoning the woman to death implied her sexual sin was worse than all of the things they had done.  Instead he was probably pointing out that all of them had sinned too, just in ways that they didn't find as offensive.

 

So, even though personally if I was gay I think I would choose to be celibate, I would still celebrate my child finding someone to love who loved them back.  Thankfully I don't feel the need to wrestle with God over that one, but I would trust my adult child to do so on their own, and to follow their own conscience.

[marbel]

So people with eating disorders should just suck it up and have a little more self control?

 

What are you talking about?  Having an eating disorder is not a sin. 

 

[Scarlett]

What about Prader-Willi syndrome?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prader-willi-syndrome/basics/definition/con-20028982

I don't know what that is and I don't have time to look. There are a lot of things that people do because of mental illness. Or physical illness. People have to answer for themselves. But I have to answer for myself which includes not condoning wrong doing.

[Mergath]

Eating disorders are illnesses.

 

Which in some cases cause people to commit acts that the bible classifies as sin.

 

So, in your opinion, is it possible for God to create people born with a biological predisposition to sin or not? And if someone is born with said biological predisposition, is it still sin? If someone has an eating disorder that causes them to overeat (see binge eating disorder, as well as some tumors of the hypothalamus) is their gluttony sin in the eyes of God?

[Mergath]

What are you talking about?  Having an eating disorder is not a sin. 

 

 

Some eating disorders cause people to binge eat. Gluttony is a sin. If a person has a biological predisposition toward gluttony, if something in their brain makes them overeat, is it still a sin?

 

I'm trying to make a point here. I thought that would be fairly obvious. For the record, I am NOT a Christian and I do NOT believe gluttony offends any deities.

[Scarlett]

The problem with this, even if you're absolutely certain being or acting gay is morally wrong, is that it's not your job to be the Holy Spirit for your child. It's your job to raise them and to love them and to help them understand the complexities in the world, not to shame them into behaving the way you want. Especially not when this particular sin is one you shame, while you overlook others. Picking and choosing is hypocrisy, yet with some sins it's easy to see that you're supposed to treat one another with grace. With others, ones that are more personally horrifying to you, it's easier to justify being judgmental.

 

I don't think the things Jesus was scratching in the dirt when he stopped the people from stoning the woman to death implied her sexual sin was worse than all of the things they had done. Instead he was probably pointing out that all of them had sinned too, just in ways that they didn't find as offensive.

 

So, even though personally if I was gay I think I would choose to be celibate, I would still celebrate my child finding someone to love who loved them back. Thankfully I don't feel the need to wrestle with God over that one, but I would trust my adult child to do so on their own, and to follow their own conscience.

Celebrating homeosexuality relationships is absolutely condoning sin. If you think it is a sin course.

[Katy]

What are you talking about?  Having an eating disorder is not a sin. 

 

 

Gluttony is a sin.  Several eating disorders involve binges that in biblical terms would be called gluttony.  People are born predisposed to overeat.  People are born predisposed to being gay.  Why is one more understandable than the other?

 

As another argument, Jesus said people called him a drunk and a glutton (Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34). Why was it okay for him to identify violating those principles as not a big deal?

 

I would argue that Jesus set us free from all those rules.  The rules are there to help us, not to jail us.  Galatians 5.

[bolt.]

My religion and faith are very serious to me. Changing my mind because my child wants to go against my religious beliefs seems dismissive of all I've lived and worked for. Something doesn't cease to be wrong because my son wants to do it.

I don't think the question is really, "Does sin cease to be wrong when family members want to do it?"

 

It's more like, "Do people cease to be family members when they want to do (allegedly) wrong things?"

 

I understand that your belief is that you should not be homosexual. This conclusion can be reached from the Bible, according to certain reasonable interpretive approaches. (Though it is not the only possible interpretation, nor the only reasonable one, nor the only one that exists among Christain people.)

 

You also seem to believe that no one else should be homosexual. This too is one *a* reasonable and plausible conclusion based on the Bible.

 

You also seem to have some *additional* beliefs about how you ought to treat people who are homosexual. I call these beliefs "additional" because they are not found within the Bible, nor reasonably derived from any Biblical text. They are entirely human teaching and (as such) are not a component of the Christian faith.

 

You don't have to change your mind about what 'is wrong' in order to change your mind about 'what we do when people we love are wrong'.

[Χά�ων]

I don't know what that is and I don't have time to look. There are a lot of things that people do because of mental illness. Or physical illness. People have to answer for themselves. But I have to answer for myself which includes not condoning wrong doing.

A key feature of Prader-Willi syndrome is a constant sense of hunger that usually begins at about 2 years of age. People with Prader-Willi syndrome want to eat constantly because they never feel full (hyperphagia) and usually have trouble controlling their weight.

 

 

If gluttony is wrong then what is the view on people with a medical condition that causes a constant sense of hunger. I am interested in how that is reconciled in your church? If gluttony is wrong, is it still wrong if there is a scientific explanation for it? Is the belief that they still have self control and should use it? 

 

I am not trying to be picky, I genuinely am interested, this is all new to me. 

[Rosie_0801]

God doesn't ask more of us than we can manage. All of us are capable of controlling ourselves and not acting on feelings.

 

If you push a person too far they can't behave as though they are not under stress.