My dd wants to take French, wwyd?

[...................]

Our families all speak Portuguese, German and Spanish. I took 5 years of Spanish and used to be able to understand Portuguese but 20 years away from my family has diminished that. I also heard enough German growing up that I feel it is easy to step in and help out and the pronunciation is not difficult.

 

My dd has a year of Spanish with Rosetta Stone and did very well. She is dyslexic and also is absolutely terrible at pronouncing new languages.

 

She now wants to take French. Her only reason is she may possibly pursue a culinary career,

 

Would you listen to a 12 year old and assume that giving them freedom to choose their electives will really bolster their interest and Help in the long run even though it will be a real struggle?

 

Or would you just say, "you're taking Spanish and that is that." Knowing that it'll be so much easier to help out with and also to practice on extended family?

[...................]

(And yes she has dug her heels in on this- she does NOT want to take Spanish...but she's also not a very mature kid even for her age and often doesn't think practically at all)

[YsgolYGair]

My personal rule is, if my child wants to learn something that's generally good for them, it is my responsibility to find a way! Let her know she can take French as well as Spanish, if she wants! :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

No answers here, but my dd9 has also dug in her heels about *not* wanting to learn Spanish, the language that the rest of the family knows and her sister is studying.  She wants to study French, but also German, Greek, Swahili, and Pirate, so I haven't worried about it too much at this point.  I wish she'd change her mind about Spanish, because it's far more useful where we live, but if she persists in wanting a different language (and narrows it down to just one) I will probably let her do it.  I had French in my youth so could at least help her get started with that one.

[Miss Tick]

I'm reluctantly scrambling to figure out beginning German for our family since ds has shown a persistent interest. I don't want to give up Spanish which we have been working with forever (and I can pronounce and read and know the rudiments of grammar in) and I don't want to give up Latin which we are enjoying and using a nice "do-the-next-thing" curriculum for, so I'm also struggling with where to place German in our day. Bah humbug.

 

All this time bemoaning that my dc don't express any self-motivated interest in anything, and then they do and it is me doing the moaning!

[J-rap]

I let my kids choose any language they wanted.  I figured whatever they choose, there is a good chance that they will never even use it in real life, so might as well just pick one that for whatever reason they are excited about.   Learning any foreign language is just good for the brain!  Also, learning any foreign language well takes motivation, so if they have some extra motivation for a particular language, let them run with it.

 

Three of mine chose Spanish, one French, and one German.  My dh and I  have Spanish in our background (mine not so good, but I did have to take it beginning in 5th grade due to the town I lived in in California).  My dh and everyone in his family spoke Spanish fluently;  my fil was a sort of well-known Spanish teacher TV-star.  :)  So it really made sense for all of our kids to learn Spanish, but we still let them choose.

[Guest]

I'd set her up with the Duolingo app in French and see if she 1. does it and 2. enjoys it. That would influence my decision. I wasn't going to start Spanish with DS yet, but we were just introduced to that app and I'm kind of surprised to see how interested he really is.

[Wabi Sabi]

I would let her do it, but require that she give it as much effort and diligence as any other academic subject. In my family, if I am going out of the way to locate and pay for outside resources and instructors for something that I can't teach, then I expect to see a high level of commitment and effort being put forth. 
 

I'd set her up with the Duolingo app in French and see if she 1. does it and 2. enjoys it. That would influence my decision. I wasn't going to start Spanish with DS yet, but we were just introduced to that app and I'm kind of surprised to see how interested he really is.

FWIW, Duolingo wasn't a good indicator for my ds. He gave both Duolingo and Mango a try but just couldn't get into it. It wasn't until we got him into a class with a native speaker that he really started learning the language he chose (which, BTW, is not a language I can help him with at all.) 

[deerforest]

DD would like to learn French because it might be useful for Cirque training. Maybe. But, she has no interest in self-teaching, taking an online class, or dropping something to take an in-person class. I'm fluent in Spanish so she gets that for now.

Edited April 5, 2016 by deerforest

[LindaOz]

I'd let her. My 13yo dd decided at the start of the year that she wanted to learn Indonesian - I am doing French with the others. Her reason is that we have two sponsor children in Indonesia and she would like to visit them one day. So I gave her the choice of French with us or Indonesian on her own - she chose the latter. She is totally self motivated and uses Mango languages which seems to be working really well for her. Learning the language for her own reasons has been a real motivator her.

[freesia]

I'd set her up with the Duolingo app in French and see if she 1. does it and 2. enjoys it. That would influence my decision. I wasn't going to start Spanish with DS yet, but we were just introduced to that app and I'm kind of surprised to see how interested he really is.

I agree. Something similar happened here. I finally found a foreign language program I love--Homeschool Spanish Academy! All my children were going to do it.

 

Then dd 13 declared that she wanted to learn French. Ack!

(Okay, my difference from you is that I took 5 years of French. lived 2 years in a Francophone country and can manage teaching the first year. But I DETEST teaching foreign language. I did French one over two years with ds and both of us hated it. I never want to teach it again!)

 

Also, we are not a spelling family (mild dyslexia in most of my kids). French is as hard to spell as English--or harder since we don't read it or see it all around.

 

So, my solution is that next year for eighth grade she will do Mind Snacks French and Duolingo and I will use some of the materials I used with ds (EZ French from Barrons). I am hoping she will realize that it's harder than she wants to deal with--and she'll take Spanish.

 

If not, I will put her in online French (probably through AIM academy).

[Matryoshka]

I was just going to say, well, let her take French - but then I saw your and your family's backgrounds.

 

I am fluent in German and Spanish.  I got around this choice problem a bit by making them learn them really young, before they knew enough to complain, LOL.  One of mine really wanted to drop the languages, and I let her drop Spanish because German is the heritage language - we still have relatives back in Germany we're in touch with.  I think I'd have had a hard time with them totally ditching German for that reason.

 

One thing I'd emphasize to your dd, especially if she's dyslexic, is that French spelling is completely nuts, and Spanish spelling is pretty much 100% regular.  That alone would make Spanish much easier for her to learn.  Once you know Spanish fairly well, French is pretty easy to add-on.  I've never really studied French, but I can read it fairly well.  My one dd(17) that actually likes languages is suddenly having this epiphany (even though I'd told her this for years, she wasn't listening).  She is realizing how much French she just 'gets' because of Spanish. And if your dd just wants French for a culinary career, that's mostly reading, unless I guess she wants to train in France...

 

All that said, after they get to a certain age, they have to buy in, as they won't learn anything if they're actively not interested (this is why I let  one dd drop Spanish).  I think the recommendation to have her play around with French on Duolingo to see how she likes it is a good one (and maybe have her do some Spanish Duolingo as well to compare).

Edited April 5, 2016 by Matryoshka

[Junie]

I have had two children want to take French.  I just told them no.

 

We do not have $$ to outsource language.  I had 4 years of Spanish, 2 years of French in high school.  I feel like I can capably teach 2 years of Spanish.  I could maybe teach a semester of French.

 

Ds15 and dd13 are taking Spanish 1 with me this year.  I expect to teach each of my children 1 or 2 years of Spanish.  If they want to take CC classes, they can take whatever language they want.  But, until they are ready to do that, Spanish is the only foreign language offered in my homeschool.

 

Also, our church has a large hispanic population.  They have several services each week in Spanish.  And a good friend of mine is from Chile.  She moved to the U.S. when she got married, so Spanish is her primary language.  In other words, I have foreign language resources -- but only for Spanish.

 

 

[Sahamamama]

If I had $40 to invest in her learning, then I would purchase this and this, and let her get started on French. ;) If I had a little more to invest, I'd purchase this and this to add to her enjoyment. These are all great resources that have helped us on our journey in French.

 

Bienvenue!

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sahamamama

[RootAnn]

DD#1 is learning Spanish. I took 5+ years of French in high school and could help with the grammar, but not the pronunciation. Finally out-sourced.

 

DD#2 & #3 want to learn French. I can help with that, but it isn't as easy to find affordable French classes as it is to find Spanish, although there are at least some classes out there.

 

IMO, I'd let her go ahead with French as an elective, with the idea in the back of your mind that you can fall back onto Spanish if French doesn't work. I think French is easier in terms of tenses and pronunciation (since you drop so much), but DD#1 thinks I'm insane. She thinks French is crazy hard after learning Spanish. So, start tough?   :lol:

[redsquirrel]

FWIW, Spanish comes in VERY handy in the culinary world. It is very common for the kitchen staff of a restaurant to be Spanish speakers. My BIL is a trained chef and he had to get his high school Spanish up to speed very quickly when he was working in kitchens.

 

In Anthony Bourdain's first book, the one that made him famous, Kitchen Confidential he has an essay called "How to be a chef" and rule number 2 is "Learn to Speak Spanish".  He says "Much of the workforce you are about to enter is Spanish speaking. The very backbone of the industry, whether you like it or not, is  inexpensive Mexican, Dominican, Salvadorian, and Ecuadorian labor - most of whom could cook you under the table without breaking a sweat." He then explains that if you can't communicate with your co-workers you are going to be at a huge disadvantage and maybe miss out on jobs. And if you plan to be a leader in the kitchen then speaking Spanish is imperative. You need to be able to speak to your staff.

[TheAttachedMama]

I would encourage her.

 

I can't say enough good things about these audio courses available on audible:   Paul Noble French

 

ETA:  I would say that initial $9.22 investment would be a BETTER indicator of whether she will stick with a French program than duolingo.   (For reasons that I go into below.)   Put that on her school "check list" for the day, and see if she can stick with it.    This will get her speaking very basic French very quickly---enough that she can hold a conversation.   

 

I took 4 years of French in high school, tried MP French, and a million other resources as an adult learner.   I NEVER made much progress.   The problem was that I was always translating.   This audio program is different.   It gets you THINKING in the language right away, and coming up with original complex sentences right away.    

 

I think this course would be PERFECT for a dyslexic child around her age.   I would encourage her to learn French the same way she learned her "mother tongue".   Instead of focusing on conjugation, grammar rules, etc (all things possibly confusing and off-putting to someone with dyslexia) have her listen and speak in the language as much as possible.    Spoken language is innate to human beings.   Written language is not necessarily easy for us to learn...especially when you have dyslexia.  So introduce that later.  In the beginning, encourage her to start speaking the language as soon as possible.

 

Encourage her to be brave enough to make mistakes, pronounce things wrong, use poor grammar, etc.   That is NORMAL when you are learning a new language.   Everyone learning a new language will do this, and if you want to make any type of progress, you need to accept that you *will* do this.  (If she has ever been around a toddler learning his/her mother tongue she will know this is true!   My 2-year-old is often leaving out articles, using double negatives, not pronouncing things correctly, has a small vocabulary....but he will eventually get there with his English!)   

 

Here is my "prescription" for a fun, mostly independent French program for your daughter:

 

Stage 1:   Get speaking as quickly as possible 

A)   Have her go through the Paul Noble CD program.    I found it helpful to do it every day for a short time so you can give it your full concentration.   15 minutes is fine!   Re-listen to the CDs as much as needed to practice.   I found it helpful to always rewind several minutes so I had some built in review.   

B)  Work on learning the most common vocabulary in the French program.   That way you have some words for the things you want to talk about.   You can google the most commonly used  French words.   Make some ANKI flashcards (or old fashioned index flashcards) and practice.   You could also use Duolingo which is free and independent.    it introduces some light grammar too.

 

Stage 2:  Native Speaker Conversation/ Continued Listening Practice

A)   Again, you want her to practice speaking and forming thoughts in the key language as much as possible.   The best way to do this is with daily practice.   You need to speak the language in order to get better.  That is the only way.

 

 This is actually a lot easier than it sounds.   There are many programs available online if you don't happen to know of a native speaker.   (I like italki.com)    Replace your Paul Noble lesson with this.   Italki has options where you can trade speaking practice with a native French speaker who wants to practice English (for free)---or you can pay a tutor or teacher.    Find someone who talks a lot, asks good open-ended questions, and gently gives good feedback.   

B)  Haver her start listening to French as much as possible.   She won't understand it all.   That is normal.   Just keep listening and try to make out as much as she can.    (Again, just like my 2-year-old doesn't understand every word in the books I read to him!  He keeps listening, and gets as much out of it as he can!)  

------I really like

.     It is GREAT!   Native speakers interview people around Franch about various things in France.     So she will get to hear how French is actually spoken...and pick up some culture.   Plus, they are interesting!    

-------Watch some easy french TV shows or her favorite movies in French.  (Again, youtube is great for this!)  

-------Try some of these ideas:  http://www.fluentin3months.com/french-is-easy/

C)  Start listening to French music.   whatever kind of music she likes!   I like little kid French songs.  hahaha  She might like actual French pop.   again, this will give you a ton of practice hearing how French is actually used.  

 

Stage 3:  Introduce Written French and Reading

A)  I think the BEST and most fun way to do this is (again!) the same way she learned to read and write in her mother tongue.   You don't start a 2-year-old conjugating verbs and discussing grammar concepts like verb tenses.   No, you read him stories and have him read stories.   Human beings love a good story.     You obviously can't do read alouds if you cannot speak French yourself, so....utilize audible.   It has ALL sorts of easy French readers available on audiobook read by native French speakers.  She should already have a good foundation of listening under her belt.   So she will probably understand enough of these books to follow the basic plot.   (She won't understand everything. That is normal.)   As she listens, have her start following along with a printed book.  So she can start to SEE those French words she has been speaking.  (Again, the same way we learn to read in English.)

B)  Add Duolingo...again, it will gently introduce written French and give her some practice reading.

 

Stage 4:  Written French

A)  Again, I personally think it is best to learn to WRITE in French the same way she learned to write in her mother-tongue.   I really like how Charlotte Mason taught writing in French....the same way she taught it in English.   Have her copy sentences from her French readers that she likes (copywork.)   Assign a few sentences each day; give her the choice of which ones.  Eventually work up dictation.   Have her orally narrate her favorite movies, books or TV shows to native speakers on italki.com.   They can help her with phrasing and expressing herself.   And eventually, she can work up to writing up her thoughts about these TV shows.   

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by TheAttachedMama

[Arcadia]

French and spanish are both romance language so I'll let her try French for a year while maintaining her spanish conversation skills then evaluate for the next year.

 

I order food and bakery items in cantonese or english due to where I stay. The canto chefs are multilingual anyway.

[Flowergirl159]

Thank you Attached Mama :)

 

Your post was so helpful! Paul Noble CD sounds amazing!!

 

I am currently looking at an independent French program for my DD11. I was thinking either MP First Start French or Galore Parks SYRWTL French, so maybe one of these would work with your suggestions. She already uses Duolingo, books from the library and some clips from YouTube.

 

Thanks again :)

[Carrie12345]

I told my 13yo she was taking the language I felt most comfortable homeschooling (which happens to be French, lol) for 2 years of high school, period.  If she puts in the effort, I will go through the headache and expense of finding her proper Japanese instruction after that.  Even she agreed that was a fair compromise, and that is a rare, beautiful thing with this kid!

[PeterPan]

I've looked at culinary arts programs for my dd, because that's something we thought she might go into.  She doesn't need a language for a culinary arts program.  You might consider skipping foreign language entirely, and so no I would not encourage the french.  Or, if she really liked Rosetta Stone, let her try the French Rosetta Stone.  If she did well with it, it might satisfy her interest.

Edited April 7, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Eliz]

My daughters chose which languages they would study while they were still in middle school. All I required was at least 2 years of the same language in high school. My older daughter is dyslexic.  She started with German but decided she prefered French.  French hasn't been that hard for her even with dyslexia.  But to be fair, she has developed really good study skills.  My younger daughter is enamoured with everything Japanese.  No other language would do.  I can help a bit with French, but not at all with Japanese.  Since there are so many subjects that I consider non-negotiable, I want to give them choices in their electives when I can.

[YsgolYGair]

I have had two children want to take French.  I just told them no.

 

We do not have $$ to outsource language. 

 

French is a good and useful skill. If your children want to learn, but there's no money, at least show them to the language learning section at the library. If it costs a bit, let them earn the money to rent the materials themselves. With public libraries, learning can be very, very cheap!

[...................]

I've looked at culinary arts programs for my dd, because that's something we thought she might go into.  She doesn't need a language for a culinary arts program.  You might consider skipping foreign language entirely, and so no I would not encourage the french.  Or, if she really liked Rosetta Stone, let her try the French Rosetta Stone.  If she did well with it, it might satisfy her interest.

 

My dd is not fully decided on this, so I need to make sure she has college prep coursework.  (even if she thought she was fully decided, my goal is to get my kids ready for college) Also, in my state two years of Foreign Languages is required to graduate anyway. :o)

[PeterPan]

My dd is not fully decided on this, so I need to make sure she has college prep coursework.  (even if she thought she was fully decided, my goal is to get my kids ready for college) Also, in my state two years of Foreign Languages is required to graduate anyway. :o)

Check to see if that includes kids with dyslexia.  My ds' psych report says no foreign language.  I'm sure it varies with the state.  

 

Remember too, she can take one year at the cc her senior year to meet that.  At that point she'd know what direction she was going and whether she needed it.

[Reefgazer]

I think you'll have a more enthusiastic learner if she choose her own language.  I'd let her choose that.

Our families all speak Portuguese, German and Spanish. I took 5 years of Spanish and used to be able to understand Portuguese but 20 years away from my family has diminished that. I also heard enough German growing up that I feel it is easy to step in and help out and the pronunciation is not difficult.

My dd has a year of Spanish with Rosetta Stone and did very well. She is dyslexic and also is absolutely terrible at pronouncing new languages.

She now wants to take French. Her only reason is she may possibly pursue a culinary career,

Would you listen to a 12 year old and assume that giving them freedom to choose their electives will really bolster their interest and Help in the long run even though it will be a real struggle?

Or would you just say, "you're taking Spanish and that is that." Knowing that it'll be so much easier to help out with and also to practice on extended family?