How people with dyslexia experience reading

[maize]

I'm not sure how universally accurate this is, but it's an interesting attempt to help people without dyslexia catch a glimpse of the dyslexic experience.

 

http://geon.github.io/programming/2016/03/03/dsxyliea

[shawthorne44]

A former boss of mine has three dyslexic boys.  She said one of her boys occasionally shakes the book really hard.  She asked why.  He said it was because "the words keep moving around and shaking the book puts them back for a little while."   

[PeterPan]

My ds doesn't complain of vision disturbances, and his dyslexia has been confirmed by multiple psychs.  I think if you have vision problems you should go to a developmental optometrist and get your vision checked.

[freesia]

A former boss of mine has three dyslexic boys.  She said one of her boys occasionally shakes the book really hard.  She asked why.  He said it was because "the words keep moving around and shaking the book puts them back for a little while."

My ds says that when he picks up a book all the letters are dancing around and he has to wait until they settle down.

[Heathermomster]

Words don't jump around when DS reads.  Seems like a VT issue to me.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Heathermomster

[sweetpea3829]

Isn't this the crux of the issue though?  For years, it is likely that dyslexia has been mislabeled.  Kids that are actually having visual processing issues are being called dyslexic.  Probably...dyslexia is just a symptom.  

 

So...my husband is a diagnosed dyslexic.  But his struggles are not just visual.  He actually cannot HEAR the phonemic makeup of a word.  So when he's reading...he tells me that sometimes the letters are "cloudy".  Or "fuzzy".  They move around.  He gets a headache sometimes.  

 

When he is writing, he cannot retrieve an accurate image of a word.  Well that makes sense because when he's reading, he's not visually processing the word correctly.  How can he have an image in his memory if, every time he reads that word...the letters are floating around?  

 

Phonemic spelling doesn't work for him either.  He literally does not hear all of the sounds.  His hearing is fine!  But his brain does not process all of the sounds.  So he'll spell words with letters that are not even close (for example...he spells with as "would").  He'll leave letters out.  And on top of all of that...he reverses certain letters too.  

 

I will say this...the linked page gave ME A headache, just looking at it for ten seconds.  I can only imagine if that's how symbols looked every single time I tried to read.  

[mamamoose]

So who do you go to if this is NOT dyslexia and actually a visual processing problem?! His eye doctor thinks he sees fine, he's been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia, but this is how he sees things!

[Tiramisu]

Text can also move around with scotopic sensitivity syndrome (aka Irlen syndrome).

 

Treatment for this condition is somewhat controversial. You can use glasses with colored lenses or colored overlays to read.

 

Here's an easy to read description: http://www.irlenvisions.com/pg/What-is-Irlen-Syndrome.php?bg=gray

 

Here's a place where you can see a sample of what it can be like: http://irlen.com/. Click on the right where it says, see sample distortions.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Tiramisu

[Heathermomster]

The author of the Gift of Dyslexia teaches what he refers to as mind's eye exercises to stop the jumping.  IDK, maybe check out the book.  I think Davis is whack but many people seem to benefit from his exercises. 

 

ETA : I will add that Davis is one of the first authors I encountered that did not talk about dyslexia like it was a horrible illness.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Heathermomster

[OneStepAtATime]

So who do you go to if this is NOT dyslexia and actually a visual processing problem?! His eye doctor thinks he sees fine, he's been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia, but this is how he sees things!

Try finding a developmental optometrist listed on the COVD website. They can frequently test for things an ophthalmologist won't.

[Butter]

(My 14 year old specifically has an orthographic processing disorder which behave exactly like dyslexia + dysgraphia, and then some.)  He said the link looks pretty accurate to him with the exception of blank spots where letters disappear.

[FO4UR]

Dyslexia can be a visual quirk, an auditory quirk, or a mix of both.  My oldest has excellent phonemic awareness and always has. His quirks are all visual. No, COVD didn't fix it.  Vision therapy can help some people, but it doesn't cure dyslexia.

 

 

He's asleep.  Maybe I'll ask him what he thinks about that link tomorrow.  If that's what a page looks like to him, it would explain his spelling.  

[Guest2]

Interesting.  I'll have to have my girls look at this. I usually hear that the letters/words usually dance and turn or slide sideways(one daughter).  I'll check to see what she thinks about the link.This DD has had a few VT assessments and doesn't need V.T.  I am not well versed in this, but it seems like there are different causes/types of dyslexia?  I am guessing that the brain imaging when reading would be different from other dyslexics and non dyslexics as well.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Silver Brook

[Storygirl]

DD10 says that letters don't shift like that for her. Her dyslexia is specifically a word-level phonological impairment.

 

I wonder, though, if my attempt to read that screen is similar in the level of difficulty of processing the words. Because when DD10 reads a word that she has read many times, but still doesn't recognize it, it is going to seem odd and unfamiliar to her, just as those words on the screen seemed odd and unfamiliar to me. I could still read the article and figure out most of what it was saying, even though I couldn't accurately decode the words. DD10 does this -- she has excellent comprehension skills with a paragraph of text, because she can read via context even when she cannot decode all of the words properly.

 

So even though the visually shifting aspect of it is not how DD10 experiences reading, that exercise may mimic how difficult the process of reading is for her.

[mamashark]

So a question. Let's say the issue is processing, where the brain just doesn't translate letters/sounds properly. What is the other way into the brain? Or is there? How does a program, like Orton-gillingham for example, or Barton, work with these kids? 

[geodob]

It is wrong to say that people with Dyslexia experience reading, as any particular vision problem.

Otherwise, anyone who can't read without glasses, would be defined as Dyslexic?

 

Though it might be helpful to understand these 'moving letters/words'?

 

Which begins with how what we see, forms an image on the back of our eyes.

But an important thing, is the reason why you can only clearly see 1 or 2 words, as you read?

Despite being able to see the whole page, and around it as well.

 

The reason for this, is because in the back of our eyes/ retina?

That their is only tiny area in the center, about the size of a match-head.  

Called the Fovea.

Which we can see clearly with.

 

The retina is in some ways similar to a computer screen.

Which is made up of a certain number of 'dots of light per square inch'.

The more dots per square inch, the clearer the image.

Just as the screen dots, are made of red, blue and green dots.

Our retina, has red, blue and green cones. That react to each color.

 

But a crucial factor, is that their is a much higher density of color cones, in the Fovea.

Which is made up of rings, with less and less cones.

So that we only have this tiny area in the center, that we can see very clearly.

 

Though the eyes have a way to expand what we can see clearly?

Which is called 'Saccadic Movement'?

 

If you stop and look at a word, for just 1 second.

You might think that your eyes have stayed still for that 1 second?

 

But in fact, in that 1 second, your eyes made 5 automatic movements.

In that second, they would have moved. From the first letter, to the last letter.

Then just above the center letter, then below the center letter, and then to the center letter.

 

As the eyes can't see the whole word clearly?

What they do, is to take these 5 snap-shots around the word, in a second.

 

Our Visual Cortex, is in a constant process of fitting these 5 snapshots together.  Which combined, form a larger clear image.

 

Though the crucial factor here, is that the last snapshot needs to be completely erased !

So that the next one can be formed.

The last snapshot is erased, while the eyes move to the next point.

Which actually takes one 20th of a second.

 

But a problem that can happen, is when the last snapshot hasn't been erased in time?

So that the last snapshot, will merge into the next snapshot.

 

Which produces what is like an animated cartoon.

Of moving letters/ words.

 

Though with this erasure of the last snapshot?

What is being erased, is the image formed on the red, green and blue color cones.

The more common problem that people have with this?

Is that they don't all erase evenly.

The most common problem that people have, particularly with males?

Is that the image on the blue cones, still remains.

 

Then another major factor, is with 'white light'. As reflected from white paper.

Where white light, is formed by a combination red, green and blue light.

So that if one has a problem with the erasure of red, or blue or green light?

White paper will be equally a problem.

 

Though this is purely a vision issue, that will effect reading.

But is totally different from Dyslexia.

[mamashark]

So would it help in this case to put letters and words on red or green paper?

 

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[shawthorne44]

Isn't that one of the Assistance things for dyslexia?   I clear colored sheet you put over the page.   

[Butter]

So would it help in this case to put letters and words on red or green paper?

 

No color worked for my son.  So the answer is: It depends.

[Guest2]

Ok, one DD says reading is exactly like this.  Other daughter says it is similar for her but only on the sides of the page.  wow.

[ElizabethB]

Ok, one DD says reading is exactly like this. Other daughter says it is similar for her but only on the sides of the page. wow.

Have you tried a COVD screening?

[Guest2]

Have you tried a COVD screening?

Oh yes. My DD who sees the words exactly like this has been through a couple of screenings. Ironically, she was the one of the three tested that didn't need it. My other DD did have VT, and it was amazing. It just didn't have any effect upon this.

[ElizabethB]

Oh yes. My DD who sees the words exactly like this has been through a couple of screenings. Ironically, she was the one of the three tested that didn't need it. My other DD did have VT, and it was amazing. It just didn't have any effect upon this.

That is really interesting. So, what did you DD who had VT see like before and what does she see like now? What does she think of the words?

[Guest2]

That is really interesting. So, what did you DD who had VT see like before and what does she see like now? What does she think of the words?

Sorry, lost my post the other day somehow.  My DD who had VT said she now experiences those letter changes close to the side margins of the paper, but not in the middle.  She said it varied before, and wasn't consistent.  She thinks it is a pretty accurate way to display what her reading used to be like at times.  It tends to be difficult to explain.

[geodob]

A simple way to test for this, is to open a page of text with the Word program.

Then to change the white background.

Applying color tints to it.

Going through the spectrum.

If their is a 'problem', then this will identify the color, or colors.

 

Silver brook, if she reads with one eye covered, and then the other?

Is it different for each eye, or does it stay the same?

 

 

 

[FairProspects]

Interestingly enough, the Eides and at least one other expert disagree this is an accurate characterization of dyslexia.

 

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/03/18/dyslexia-simulation-not-accurate/

[OneStepAtATime]

Interestingly enough, the Eides and at least one other expert disagree this is an accurate characterization of dyslexia.

 

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/03/18/dyslexia-simulation-not-accurate/

I think the problem is people make a blanket statement like "this is how it is for all dyslexics" and it cannot possibly be 100% accurate.  As probably most of us on this board are acutely aware, the term "dyslexic" is applied very broadly and the co-morbid issues that frequently go alongside "dyslexia" make it exceedingly difficult to KNOW what "dyslexia" really is and what are the other things interfering with reading/spelling/writing.  We know more now than we did 30 years ago, but goodness there needs to be a lot more research to really understand.

 

DD has never complained about letters jumping all over and she is near sighted and has an astigmatism.  DS has (or rather had) perfect visual acuity but he has a developmental eye issue and sometimes for him the letters do jump.   Both kids are labeled "dyslexic".

 

Although we were told that using colored filters would clear things up, actually neither one needed that. It didn't help.  They don't have Irlen Syndrome.  However, we were told ALL dyslexics need these overlays.  No.  No they don't.  My kids are both dyslexic but that doesn't automatically mean the letters jump, or they need colored overlays, etc.  

Edited March 22, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Maus]

I showed the link to my two dyslexics, DH and DD11.  That's not what they experience, though DH says now that he's old and needs multi-focus lenses, if he's reading text without his glasses, so it's blurry, he experiences minor jumping.  (Not like the link.)  

 

For both of mine, it seems to be more processing speed than visual issues.  DH reads, even massive certification texts, just slowly.  Takes him a year, but he compensates by having an extraordinary memory.  (I'd forget the earlier chapters by the time I finished if it took me that long.)

 

His mother paid for Irlen glasses for him when we were first married.  He got a colored overlay, too.  He used them about a week, and said that while it was a little more restful, it didn't help his reading.  (He doesn't like bright, white paper, or bright lights in general.  If he steps out into bright sunshine from a dimmer interior, he sneezes violently.  He says it's because he's part vampire  :tongue_smilie:, but only part!)

 

DD11 also has ASD and generally has a slow processing speed.  Verbal conversation is a struggle for her.  She reads "at grade level" and got her dyslexia diagnosis because her IQ is two and a half standard deviations above that.  She reads aloud fine, good flow, and pronouncing everything correctly, but can't remember what she just read.  So if she loses her place, she can't find it again.

[geodob]

Maus, you wrote that when your DH 'steps out into bright sunshine from a dimmer interior, he sneezes violently.'

 

This is called the 'photic sneeze reflex', which around 1 in 4 people have.

It has been recognized for some time, as Aristotle observed that he had this and wrote about it.

 

[ehumenyik]

My father is dyslexic? Both my sisters, myself and my oldest son. We all experience it differently. I had the letter floating off the page. It helped me to have colored overlays. My oldest sister had speech therapy and that helped her tremendously.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[laundrycrisis]

"Visual dyslexia" is when reading difficulties are totally a visual motor and visual processing/perception issue.  This is what our son had.  He had difficulty recognizing letters and words, and with picking them out from everything else on a page, and then following them in the right direction and order, but he could tell you verbally how to spell them or what a set of letters spelled.  His auditory processing and phonemic awareness were always excellent.  Extensive VT with a very good leading developmental optometrist resolved these visual problems with reading.  

 

However, he still has difficulty with creating words to write.  The part that happens in his head is separate from the part that happens with his hand, which is helped by typing.  But the part in his head has to do with working memory, retrieval, semantic clustering, and the fact that in his words, he thinks in pictures, not words.  The process of stringing together the words to describe the picture or movie that is the thought in his head - that is difficult work for him.  

Edited April 3, 2016 by Laundrycrisis2

[geodob]

Laundrycrisis, I was interested to read that he thinks in pictures, not words.

So that his thinking process is in the form of movie.

Where I would conclude, that he can't retrieve the sound of words directly from memory?

But rather, that he uses mental images to retrieve the sounds associated with the images.

Also instead of stringing, or being able to bring words together?

That quite possibly he recalls what are termed as 'verbal scripts'?

 

But is unable to mentally form new verbal scripts?