Borderline Personality Disorder & Homeschooling (sorry long)

[Mergath]

The sense I'm getting from your posts- and I could be wrong about this- is that you were hoping everyone would tell you that things aren't that bad and to just carry on, but seeing that we're all very concerned, you're trying to convince us and yourself that things really aren't that bad, and trying to play down what you originally said.

 

Please don't do that. I know how easy it is to convince yourself that everything is okay, and that making changes will be disruptive and pointless so why bother? I have fairly severe OCD, and I've been there. When dd was younger I was so ill at one point that I was hallucinating from stress. It's okay to admit that you've let things completely fall apart and that you need help to fix everything. I think most of us have been there at some point. It's important to be honest with yourself so you can make the best possible choices about what to do next. 

[luuknam]

Just saw your next post. I'd keep her out of the discussion with the school for now, until after you talk to the school more to see if it might be a good fit or not. No need to put her through that stress until you think that there is a good chance of sending her.

 

She's never been to school, right? So it's an unknown to her. Once there she might adapt quickly and turn out to like it, but since she doesn't have experience with it it might be scary to her (especially if she's picked up somehow on you having had a negative experience with school in the past).

 

And, like others said, I wouldn't worry about being behind in books. She'll be able to read those awesome books herself soon without needing to have them be read out loud to her. Yes, read alouds are great, but when I feel like I'm behind where I wanted to be, I become less pleasant and push the kids to sit and listen more than they can handle, and everybody ends up more unhappy. Not worth it.

 

Kids sometimes do act out more when things are more stable. When things are chaotic, they might be scared and hold things together, and then when things are more stable they can finally break down without (as much) fear. It might take long term stability (more than a year) to get things to normal. It took *me* more than a year to feel more stable after my wife got on meds, got a job, and my special needs kid's special needs improved. The first year I was feeling quite PTSD-y (I don't have a PTSD diagnosis, don't know if I would've qualified for one, but I had intense flashbacks etc that only after a year started becoming less frequent).

[bookwormsix]

I can't afford a Christian school right now. There is only a nearby school that is in a sketchy neighborhood. With many childRen that come from addicted and low income homes. Lots of crime and gangs. I have actaully met some of the kids from that school when they have skipped school to climb over my fence to play in my yard and these kids were under 10 and may or may have stolen things from my yard. As well as children that lived near by and their parents let the kids stay up to midnight , ate cold pizza supper at 8pm and kids left kids unattended for long periods of time to fend for themselves. Maybe not abusive but neglectful. Latch key kid is one thing if mom was working but she was out with friends getting nails done and shopping regularly. Those kids came over just to get fed at regular times and we're lonely. As good as it was to try to help these children I am also wanted to guard children's association or at least limit it. For example they weren't allowed to sleep over there. As well these type of children have taught my children new words and attitudes. Saying " whatever" and taught them to hump the air and jirate hips and singing graphic rap songs about sex. That school is full of kids like this. This is my only option right now and a last resort. My child are in a loving albeit sometimes disfunctional home. They are fed at regular times but to bed at same time and got up mostly at same time. Their media is age appropriate. They almost always have clean clothes. Sure they have to dig In a clean pile to find them sometimes or where shorts til noon til I can get pants washed.but so what. The kids are read to every day by their dad and are hugged , wrestled , and held . And wrapped and carried.

We have challenges aND issues and some issues greater than a normal or ideal home. But we are far from broken.

 

 

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[bookwormsix]

The sense I'm getting from your posts- and I could be wrong about this- is that you were hoping everyone would tell you that things aren't that bad and to just carry on, but seeing that we're all very concerned, you're trying to convince us and yourself that things really aren't that bad, and trying to play down what you originally said.

 

Please don't do that. I know how easy it is to convince yourself that everything is okay, and that making changes will be disruptive and pointless so why bother? I have fairly severe OCD, and I've been there. When dd was younger I was so ill at one point that I was hallucinating from stress. It's okay to admit that you've let things completely fall apart and that you need help to fix everything. I think most of us have been there at some point. It's important to be honest with yourself so you can make the best possible choices about what to do next.

After reading the responses from people who are trying to understand but yet don't truly know me or my situArion it's hard for them to give accurate advice. And from the responses they gave, indictates to me that i wasnt clear enough or that they think it's worse than what it is. As soon as BPD comes into coversasion I get lumped in with every person with that has BPD . What people expect people with BPD to be like or ones they know and assume I am like that person. So I have read their concerns and have considered the practical parts that can apply. I don't meet criteria anymore to the DSM like I said earlier so I am not like every other person that has BPD. Some of the symptoms of illness are triggered with intense stress. I am right now in one of those times because I'm pregnant which was way I was reaching out. I have all the other urgent requests into the appropriate professionals. And right now my mental health is on a back burner. I am just trying to get my daughter the help she needs. How I am struggling to keep it together. But I am mostly keeping together. Husband is upping his game to help me get through this rut. There are a lot of natural stressers but coping with the special issue with my daughter as really taken the wind out of my daily. I can only work on one thing at a time.

 

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[luuknam]

It's hard to get an accurate picture of everything, but here are some more thoughts:

 

The kids skipping school and ending up in your yard might be worse than the average kids in your school district.

 

Your kids *are* being exposed to those kids whether they attend school or not - you said they taught your kids to sing graphic rap songs etc.

 

I don't know how often these kids are around you/your kids, but it sounds like you're trying to help some of them, which is noble, but it takes energy you may not have. Your first responsibility is to your own family.

 

I'm going to guess moving is not an option?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't have advice.  I grew up with 2 parents who had a mental illness.  My sibling also has a mental illness.  Life was quite challenging.  Frankly, I can't imagine being homeschooled under those circumstances.  However, school was not a great place for my mentally ill sibling.  It was a good place for me because my parents were hard to live with.  Then again I had a good relationship with them, and I know they always did the best they could.  So there is no easy answer here.  Just know that whatever you decide to do will have pros and cons.  There is no magical thing you will do that will make all of that go away. 

 

 

[DawnM]

N/M.....

Edited February 21, 2016 by DawnM

[bookwormsix]

It's hard to get an accurate picture of everything, but here are some more thoughts:

 

The kids skipping school and ending up in your yard might be worse than the average kids in your school district.

 

Your kids *are* being exposed to those kids whether they attend school or not - you said they taught your kids to sing graphic rap songs etc.

 

I don't know how often these kids are around you/your kids, but it sounds like you're trying to help some of them, which is noble, but it takes energy you may not have. Your first responsibility is to your own family.

 

I'm going to guess moving is not an option?

These kids moved away. I limited how much they came over for my kids and myself. They didn't teach them in the way that they had memorized it singing the lyrics everyday...they just sung it around them alot and eldest was humming the tune.i Purposely planned play dates with Christian families that kids liked so we were busy and so kids would prefer the healthy friendships. They were playing with these kids because it was easy they were right there. I wasn't purposely taking on more responsibility but when they came knocking on door complaining to be hungry and wanting to play their folks weren't home. I let them in. If this continued on and they had not moved i would have had to go speak to their parents . They moved before I had to take that action. These kids went to the local school that I was mentioning.

Point of the story this is the school that she would go to in her catchment. And only school that would take them 3/4 through a year. And can't afford Christian school right now. And with all the pros and cons HS right now is my option.

 

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[bookwormsix]

Anyways I've spent way to many hours immersed in this forum. Supposing for this moment inspite of issues HSING is what we are working with. Issues are being dealt with .....

We have established that the majority of pepole on this thread believe you can't HS with mental illness. Ok something different... something for the moment. What else can I be doing academically speaking besides sending oldest to scool. Outsourcing....... Teaching textbooks.... coping ideas....

 

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[HomeAgain]

I know no-one with BPD.  I can only relate to what I've seen you post.  Statements like

 

We've had weeks where homeschool was cancelled because i just couldn't handle it and they were sent to grandmas and grandpas house.

There have been months taken off for depression , and days taken off because i "I just couldnt do it today".

The stress levels have been so high at times, hubby has had to come home from work to help.

 

Now with the increasing behavioural stuff from child, being pregnant and having morning sickness and fatigue. I am back at that place of crisis again. I guess im wondering how much is normal, how much is coping poorly with mental illness, or how much is a problem with my child. I also fear that by spending so much time home with me the children could be catching my mental illness,i wonder if my oldest has learned or developed BPD tendencies from me.

 

Some of the symptoms of illness are triggered with intense stress. I am right now in one of those times because I'm pregnant which was way I was reaching out. I have all the other urgent requests into the appropriate professionals. And right now my mental health is on a back burner. I am just trying to get my daughter the help she needs. How I am struggling to keep it together. But I am mostly keeping together. Husband is upping his game to help me get through this rut. There are a lot of natural stressers but coping with the special issue with my daughter as really taken the wind out of my daily. I can only work on one thing at a time.

 

 

 

 

Your home sounds like a ticking time bomb from what you've written, before you were looking for justification.  It scares me, as an adult, and I worry for the situation your kids are facing this upcoming year, and future years if you continue to put your health on the back burner.  I have put my children in school because of a stressful year, because for our family, it would not have been an optimal decision to homeschool.  I worry that your options will be cut down to CPS visits because of ongoing, constant issues that are neglected or increased by being shut off from the world. 

[luuknam]

Anyway, back to some of the actual issues...

 

It must be terribly stressful to have an 8yo who smears feces (to be honest, I'd probably go ballistic if my 8yo tried that, even though that's probably not the most useful response). I'm curious, if you ask her calmly why she does that (some time not right afterwards), what her answer would be.

 

I'd recommend starting a notebook with when she does that (and other problem behaviors), noting the ABCs - antecedents, behavior, consequences. So, what was going on right before, what she did, and what happened right afterwards. E.g. "we were reading little house on the prairie, she started screaming, I gave her a time out and then we didn't read any more reading aloud that day". Or w/e. Bring those notes with you to her first psych appt. There is a good chance the psych might not have time to really go into them during the first appointment, but if there is enough time the psych might find them very helpful.

 

Also, I don't know if you've tried rewards, but if things like smearing feces are pretty frequent, then offering a reward for not doing that might be helpful. E.g. ice cream at the end of a day if she didn't smear feces that day, or a reward chart where she gets a check mark for each day she doesn't and after 5 check marks she gets a trip to a favorite place with you (or her dad if she prefers) for 1-1 time. After the first reward chart you'd want to have a few more check marks on the next one, e.g. 7, and then 10 on the third one or something. Hopefully by then you'd have seen a therapist who can help you come up with a plan.

 

Thinking about this some more, you asked for recommendations regarding homeschooling, but you haven't actually said a whole lot about how your homeschool works other than that you've dropped some books, that you like read alouds, and that you've moved to a few more things like teaching textbooks. If you want more specific advice, it might help to be more specific wrt what you currently *do* (you obviously do things, and the kids are obviously learning, we just don't know much about what materials you use and what your days look like, school wise).

[bookwormsix]

Ok the type of and degree of mental illness I have will be sort of a chronic thing. It goes into regression for months, and years. And when it does surface the severity varies. And the length of it varies. The level of coping varies. But is always something that I'm battling with. I have been battling it for decades. As a whole I have never been better. My breakdowns are less severe than they were. People on thread thinks it's still bad. And I don't disagree that there are issues here. But for example on a a bad day the kids get kraft dinner for lunch instead of something healthy . Or because of mornING sickess kids right now are watching way too much Netflix. Sometimes hubby has had to clean up dishes or order out. Or make supper. But that's not everyday. He's helped with laundry. Things are not functioning at their best or smoothest. But I won't last like this ... I spontaneously get better . This may go on for a week. Or just a couple days a week or just a day. It varies. During harder times with babies it could be a whole month. But then meals start getting planned again , laundry gets caught up. I start feeling better.

And even if I'm still struggling things seems to pick up. This isn't a cured thing. This is trying to live with this thing coexist with it. And find ways to continue educating kids in the tough times . And to keep things afloat until that time passes.

 

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[luuknam]

We have established that the majority of pepole on this thread believe you can't HS with mental illness.

 

I don't think that's quite true. I'm homeschooling with depression, generalized anxiety disorder, trichotillomania, and a wife with bipolar disorder, ADHD, and gender identity disorder. There may be undiagnosed Asperger's in one or both of us as well. Our oldest kid has high-functioning autism. I may be missing something in this list of disorders. I've been on quite a number of different meds, including antidepressants, antipsychotics, and anti-anxiety meds. Currently on citalopram, trazodone, and klonopin (and vitamin D, which I'd btw recommend since most people are vitamin D deficient, at least in winter, and vitamin D deficiency can cause fatigue and mood problems).

 

So, yeah, it's not like I think it's impossible to homeschool with mental health disorders. That said, HomeAgain did a good job above highlighting some of the things that you've written that make it sound like at the moment, things are too tough for you. Which doesn't mean things will be too tough a year (or two) from now, or that it's impossible to homeschool with mental health disorders.

 

How does your husband feel things are going?

[luuknam]

Ok the type of and degree of mental illness I have will be sort of a chronic thing. It goes into regression for months, and years. And when it does surface the severity varies. And the length of it varies. The level of coping varies. But is always something that I'm battling with. I have been battling it for decades.

 

This isn't a cured thing. This is trying to live with this thing coexist with it. And find ways to continue educating kids in the tough times . And to keep things afloat until that time passes.

 

I get that. But it's not like the other mental illnesses Kinsa listed are curable. They're treatable, some better than others, but not curable. Most will probably hit some rough times. But when the rough times are too frequent and/or too bad, it's time to consider outsourcing the kids' educations. I'd like to encourage you to read HomeAgain's highlighted summary as if someone else wrote it, and think what you'd tell someone else who wrote that. Is it possible that was a distorted exaggeration? I suppose. I'm not an expert on borderline, but iirc people with borderline personality disorder are good at exaggerated drama. That said, too much drama is not good for little kids, and realistically, it probably does play a role in your oldest's behavior problems.

[Faithr]

What you are describing as what happens when you are having a breakdown is what happens to all homeschooling families at some point or another! There are times when it is all too much! You can't keep all the balls in the air and so nice dinners or laundry, etc take a backseat whatever is at that time more important (like mental health days for mom - even if mom has no psychological issues at all! I remember being pregnant with number 5 and just be completely overwhelmed! I could in no way be a perfectionist. We were in survival mode for a long, long while. I am not against school at all but I do think if your heart is set on homeschooling the thing to do is relax and focus on wellness and love. All the rest will follow from that. Your oldest is 8. My kids all had LDs and weren't even reading by then. I never could do regular regimented curriculum and keep up with those who seemed to thrive on such. God didn't give me that kind of family. He might not have given you that kind of family. So you have to be a different kind of family but you can all trust The Lord and know that your family will flourish in God's good time.

 

I think you are being extraordinarily level headed and forthright. I think you sound like a great mom.

 

Ok the type of and degree of mental illness I have will be sort of a chronic thing. It goes into regression for months, and years. And when it does surface the severity varies. And the length of it varies. The level of coping varies. But is always something that I'm battling with. I have been battling it for decades. As a whole I have never been better. My breakdowns are less severe than they were. People on thread thinks it's still bad. And I don't disagree that there are issues here. But for example on a a bad day the kids get kraft dinner for lunch instead of something healthy . Or because of mornING sickess kids right now are watching way too much Netflix. Sometimes hubby has had to clean up dishes or order out. Or make supper. But that's not everyday. He's helped with laundry. Things are not functioning at their best or smoothest. But I won't last like this ... I spontaneously get better . This may go on for a week. Or just a couple days a week or just a day. It varies. During harder times with babies it could be a whole month. But then meals start getting planned again , laundry gets caught up. I start feeling better.

And even if I'm still struggling things seems to pick up. This isn't a cured thing. This is trying to live with this thing coexist with it. And find ways to continue educating kids in the tough times . And to keep things afloat until that time passes.

 

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Edited February 21, 2016 by Faithr

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder around 5 years ago.

 

I have my own deregulation issues with my emotions and anger. I have not always coped well, or expressed my emotions appropriately.

The kids have witnessed this over the years in varying degrees.

I also find it very hard to bond , and feel attachment especially with the olders.

My symptoms come out most during times of stress and pregnancies or post partum.

 

 

 

I want to specifically address the issues of your DD possibly suffering from PTSD.  

 

She is 8.  You were diagnosed 5 years ago.  Assuming something in your life happened which prompted you go visit a psychiatrist/psychologist for diagnosis and treatment, you were in crisis when she was three.  This was also the time your second child was either on the way or a newborn.

 

Look at her life from her experience:

First three years - lived with a mom who was unable to regulate/control her emotions.

Third year - mom is pregnant and has a sibling (this disrupts a child's life even in a mentally healthy family)

Fifth& sixth year - mom is pregnant and or taking care of another infant (another life disruption)

Sixth & seventh year - mom is pregnant and or taking care of another infant (another life disruption)

Eighth year- mom is pregnant again (another life disruption)

 

For the majority of her short life, you have been in crisis mode, dealing with emotional containment, or, more likely than not, trying to 'fix' the crap that happened when you were at your worst.

 

At 8, she hasn't had time to develop the understanding that your emotional cycles and coping ability are out-of-control nor has she developed appropriate coping mechanisms.  Her subconcious/unconscious is doing what it can to let you know that she is aware that something is amiss.  Her behavior is a cry for help.  Eight years of constant stress will take its toll and PTSD is possible.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

deleted 

Edited February 22, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[SparklyUnicorn]

 But for example on a a bad day the kids get kraft dinner for lunch instead of something healthy . Or because of mornING sickess kids right now are watching way too much Netflix. Sometimes hubby has had to clean up dishes or order out. Or make supper. But that's not everyday. He's helped with laundry.

 

This is normal stuff and not really related to a mental illness. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

deleted

Edited February 22, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[myfunnybunch]

Please understand, first of all, that my thoughts come from a place of compassion and a desire to help, not from a place of judgment. You are in crisis. I've read all that you've written very carefully. You're struggling with your mental health, and described your homeschool as having being significantly impacted by pregnancies, new babies, and mental breakdowns. Your dd is in crisis. You've described significant behaviors, including raging, lying and stealing, and feces smearing.

 

If you were in crisis, but your dd was resilient enough to cope and you had significant healthy support for yourself and for her, homeschooling might work as you bring yourself and your home back to a place of health and stability.

 

If she was in crisis, and you were in a healthy stable place, homeschooling might work as you work with her evaluators and interventionists to bring her  to a place of health and stability.

 

But you're both in crisis at the same time. I just wish I could give you both a hug. It sounds so hard. What you're describing sounds to me in some ways like a parent with a broken leg trying to carry a child with a broken leg and care for several others at the same time.

 

You asked how to homeschool with a mental illness. I do believe that it is possible. The way to homeschool while dealing with mental illness is to get yourself to a place of health and stability, as best you can, first.

 

FWIW, my background is in special education, and I now work part-time in many public schools, across districts and neighborhoods. I've never been in a school that felt unsafe for children, physically or emotionally. Often the schools with the most transient and struggling populations have environments that are very structured and very nurturing because those are the schools at which the children most need kind adults, gentle words, and clear boundaries. As a temporary measure, while you get yourself stable and well, your neighborhood school might be a place to get your dd some help from qualified special education professionals and to give you some time to get through this difficult stage in which your pregnancy and post-partum hormones are wreaking havoc with your stability.

 

Praying for clarity and peace for all of you.

[lauraw4321]

I don't have a ton of experience with any of this (BPD or crisis HS-ing).  But I have had to really cut back my HS for awhile because of some life problems.  

 

First - does your oldest read well on her own?  If so, just allow her to read as much as she wants to / will (at least 10 minutes a day).  Math every day.  15 minutes is fine.  Some L.A. Do one FLL (includes grammar, memorization, copy work and takes usually 10 minutes).  Try to read one chapter of Story of the World out loud over the course of the week. Science can be helping with cooking or playing with baking soda oran educational video.  For an 8 year old, I believe that's sufficient.

 

Here's an idea of our routine:  After breakfast, no one is allowed to really get up from the table.  We clear it off, and do math (we do Singapore).  While I check math, they do copywork.  Then I go over spelling words (from a $3 workbook I bought).  If kids are getting fidgety, then that's it for morning work.  They have to unload the dishwasher (if that hasn't happened yet).  I rotate / start a load of laundry / load dishwasher, pick up while they are free until lunch.  They do have to practice their piano, but they can chose whether to do that in the morning.

 

After lunch, I once again don't let them leave the table.  I read SoTW, do some of the activity guide (but you can absolutely skip that), do some extra math stuff on the computer (xtramath, khan academy).  Once the baby is ready for her nap, I use that time to catch up on anything I'm feeling guilty about.  

 

We go to the library once a week and I let them get books.  Afternoons are spent reading, playing, doing chores (for them and for me).  If the weather's nice, they play outside.  Once the baby is up, they tend to get screen time (assuming it's been earned through good behavior / chores) while I start dinner.  

 

If I added up the amount of time spent doing "school" it's probably about 1:30 a day.  I've outsourced science to classes at our local science museum.  But if I were still doing it, I just used a grade-level school textbook and read it and did the experiments that didn't make me want to pull my hair out.

 

(hugs)  I wish you all very well.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by lauraw4321

[ktgrok]

Two things could be happening here. 

 

1. Your expectations are unreasonable due to mental illness, and you really are not behind at all. You just feel overwhelmed and don't have a guidepost to judge by. Eating macaroni for lunch and laundry clean but not put away is not a problem. That's normal. Not reading all the read aloud is not a problem, it's normal. If you are getting a years worth of math done in a full year, and she is reading on grade level more or less, then you are not behind. You just need to get a grip on what is okay. 

 

or 

 

2. You are in crisis. Kids are not being schooled at all much of the time. You are bedridden much of the time, or harsh or yelling much of the time, or neglecting them much of the time.

 

I can't know which it is, as different posts from you have seemed imply both these things. 

 

Edited to Add: Can you tell us what curriculum you are using? That might help us see better if you are overshooting. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by ktgrok

[luuknam]

Two things could be happening here. 

 

1. Your expectations are unreasonable due to mental illness, and you really are not behind at all. You just feel overwhelmed and don't have a guidepost to judge by. Eating macaroni for lunch and laundry clean but not put away is not a problem. That's normal. Not reading all the read aloud is not a problem, it's normal. If you are getting a years worth of math done in a full year, and she is reading on grade level more or less, then you are not behind. You just need to get a grip on what is okay. 

 

or 

 

2. You are in crisis. Kids are not being schooled at all much of the time. You are bedridden much of the time, or harsh or yelling much of the time, or neglecting them much of the time.

 

I can't know which it is, as different posts from you have seemed imply both these things. 

 

Edited to Add: Can you tell us what curriculum you are using? That might help us see better if you are overshooting. 

 

 

I agree, except I think it could also be a (partial) combination of #1 and #2.

[luuknam]

 But for example on a a bad day the kids get kraft dinner for lunch instead of something healthy . Or because of mornING sickess kids right now are watching way too much Netflix. Sometimes hubby has had to clean up dishes or order out. Or make supper. But that's not everyday. He's helped with laundry.

 

 

This is normal stuff and not really related to a mental illness. 

 

I agree, but then who would say that they're in a crisis when that happens?

Edited February 21, 2016 by luuknam

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

 

 

I agree, but then who would say that they're in a crisis when that happens?

 

 

Even though she may have said that, doesn't make it true.  It could be part of the illness to feel as if stuff is often out of control and dire.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Serious neglect is not feeding your children.  Neglect is not that you fed them boxed mac and cheese.  I bet most of us here have bought and eaten boxed mac and cheese. 

 

 

[Pen]

I'm thinking you might want to start a new thread in which you ask how to homeschool with an eldest child who has behaviour issues including smearing feces on the walls. And then add in the other additional issues such as your pregnancy and morning sickness, other children, mental issues, all as secondary rather than primary.

[SparklyUnicorn]

And really being pregnant on top of all that would feel like a crisis.  Pregnancy almost killed me both times.  No way I would have done that more than twice. 

[bolt.]

It's almost impossible for a person with Borderline to receive advice they don't like, and the condition also interferes with discribing the situation accurately.

 

While any 'discription of the moment' might be substantially accurate: the viewpoint, chosen narrative, and sense of intensity are going to fluctuate widely. This is part of the condition, and one of the reasons that BPD people have such a hard time working out confusing situations -- for sufferers, when their emotional state changes, their perspective shifts involuntarily, and reality appears to have *actually* changed.

 

What we are reading shows that this is true for you, bookwormsix. We are getting a few snapshots of how reality is moving for you, and how sometimes the problems seem catastrophic, and other times they really aren't such a big deal -- even though they are the same problems and you remember them just fine. Thats why it's hard for you to choose a proportional response -- a lot of things *might* be proportional, and you don't really have a way to tell.

 

That's why it's hard for us to give advice. We don't understand how severe (or not severe) the situation is either. And whenever you don't like certain ideas, your perspective shifts to a new view on things that makes that idea unnecessary or unworkable. That must be really hard.

 

I suggest that you view this as a brainstorming session, creating a 'tossed salad' of ideas that might be good, or might not be good. Some of them will seem better when you are looking at the situation certain ways, and other ones will fit well at times when the situation feels different. That's why having the whole 'salad' is helpful. It allows you to be choosy.

 

If you want more suggestions to one side or the other (such as how to keep homeschooling if your disorder is controlled and your daughter gets good services) that's ok. But it also doesn't mean that crisises aren't real. Some people will need to keep giving you options for the severe situation that *some* of your posts discribe. I hope that's ok.

[luuknam]

Even though she may have said that, doesn't make it true.  It could be part of the illness to feel as if stuff is often out of control and dire.

 

Right, but then most kids don't start smearing feces and stealing because they were fed boxed mac&cheese instead of homemade mac&cheese. And yes, I get that we don't know how much of the kid's behavior is related to her home environment vs innate issues. It's just impossible to interpret stuff. Her *bad* days are my normal days? Yet she feels the need to send the kids to relatives on a regular basis and says she has trouble getting out of bed? Really? I can't make heads nor tails of things.

[LMD]

I know parents who, while struggling, were able to set a baseline minimum of independent school stuff for their (reading well) 8 year old. Just a list in their room to work through. Then unschooled or worked in other things as able.

 

I mention this with the caveat that the 8 year old is neurotypical and generally compliant, the mom is very serious about taking care of her mental health (regular psych appointments) and there are many more good periods than bad, there are fewer children - and some go to preschool, they have a cleaner.

 

I agree that your later posts about 'bad days' are normal, and I'd find it hard to believe that bad days like that would lead to the difficult behaviour. I don't know if putting your kids in school is the best idea or not. But from here, worrying about scheduling and books is akin to doing the dishes while your house is on fire! You really do need to try and deal with the fire first - your and your child's mental health. I applaud you for making appointments for your DD, please look after yourself too and don't minimise your needs. Your family needs you to be healthy and you deserve to be.

[bookwormsix]

It's almost impossible for a person with Borderline to receive advice they don't like, and the condition also interferes with discribing the situation accurately.

I did receive it. weighed it, took away some points, wrestled with some challenging points , as well as had my husband read the whole thread.

 

While any 'discription of the moment' might be substantially accurate: the viewpoint, chosen narrative, and sense of intensity are going to fluctuate widely. This is part of the condition, and one of the reasons that BPD people have such a hard time working out confusing situations -- for sufferers, when their emotional state changes, their perspective shifts involuntarily, and reality appears to have *actually* changed.

I admit when I wrote the original post i was feeling desperate for some answers and some sort of perspective or " where to go from here:"

My perspective changed as i read the responses and processed them and discussed the responses with hubby. And realized things were not as bad as people were speculating that they were. which rightfully so, because i may not have been to clear about details.

As well as i began to see how reactionary some of the post were, and started to realize, that the people giving the advice did not seem to understand the big picture of things. and the snapshot  i gave , coming from a stranger to a stranger.... was not articulated very well.

And although i didn't like everything i heard. i have been processing it and thinking about things. and reconsidering other things.

What we are reading shows that this is true for you, bookwormsix. We are getting a few snapshots of how reality is moving for you, and how sometimes the problems seem catastrophic, and other times they really aren't such a big deal -- even though they are the same problems and you remember them just fine. Thats why it's hard for you to choose a proportional response -- a lot of things *might* be proportional, and you don't really have a way to tell.

My perspective changing or shifting, may be a challenge that comes with the illness but doesn't negate the fact that I still see  issues here  and nothing is changing in the way of seeking professional help. I just got the horse before the cart. i was addressing daughters issues , but neglecting an underlying issue that i have. Opinions of getting help for myself duly noted.  I am not throwing out the advice that has come my way. I have been talking to hubby about mothers helper. what things need to change or what we can get in place to help me.

 

That's why it's hard for us to give advice. We don't understand how severe (or not severe) the situation is either. And whenever you don't like certain ideas, your perspective shifts to a new view on things that makes that idea unnecessary or unworkable. That must be really hard.

sorry . i dont really know how bad it is. thats partially why i was trying to ask originally whether it was in the realm of "normal" because i have heard of other HSing moms having a hard time during pregnancies and post partum, and wanted to know how they coped.

 

I suggest that you view this as a brainstorming session, creating a 'tossed salad' of ideas that might be good, or might not be good. Some of them will seem better when you are looking at the situation certain ways, and other ones will fit well at times when the situation feels different. That's why having the whole 'salad' is helpful. It allows you to be choosy.

 

If you want more suggestions to one side or the other (such as how to keep homeschooling if your disorder is controlled and your daughter gets good services) that's ok. But it also doesn't mean that crisises aren't real. Some people will need to keep giving you options for the severe situation that *some* of your posts discribe. I hope that's ok.

 

Oh and ill add the poop smearing was only maybe 7 times in the last year.. we would find it after the  fact  had been smeared sometime before. But because this is new and alarming action regardless of frequency and dont think its "normal"... thats why i added it in as a concern and why i got the ball rolling to talk to professionals. and what i didnt say is she has constipation issues and the poop smearing also started around the time her doc put her on a daily laxative. so doc is also exploring physical reasons she might be doing it.

 

so thats what i mean about people not knowing all details, before assuming the worse or by making assumptions by what i poorly articulated, which is why i tried to keep explaining myself... those were not attempts to down play anything, or to ignore contridictory advice, i was just trying to clarify where i was coming from.

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by bookwormsix

[mamakelly]

9 years ago, my father in law passed away of prostate cancer, then 6 months later my mother in law passed away of uterine cancer. In the middle of that, I found out I was pregnant with a surprise baby. I was a hot mess. My sweet husband put his foot down and said no more to the homeschooling. We compromised on a two day a week program (3 days home) for our 3 school age kids. I was so worried about them, and you know what? They thrived. They fussed and complained at first, but it was the best thing for all of us. You can't do it all. But you really need to be willing to do what's best for you kids, and it sounds like homeschooling isn't the best thing for all of you right now. Lots of ((hugs)), it's hard to let go of our ideals sometimes, but it is part of being a good mama.

[Ausmumof3]

What other support do you have? Can you arrange for the parent thing to be a regularly set in stone break rather than a thing you do when you are overwhelmed. Just knowing that's coming up might help you feel in control.

 

Plenty here do homeschool with various mental issues.

 

Its hard to get a true picture from what you are writing.

 

For example - taking a 2 or 3 week break maybe even a month when a new baby comes or scaling backs to 3rs is normal. Just plan not to take a summer break. Taking breaks of more than a day several times through the year as well as school holidays is going to hinder your progress.

 

If you are all keeping up on reading writing and maths I wouldn't send them to school for academic reasons, though I may send them for other reasons (my own mental health, difficult home environment). I'd try to get audiobooks of good read alouds and call it good. If the kids are falling behind in the basics it's probably time for a change.

[purplejackmama]

9 years ago, my father in law passed away of prostate cancer, then 6 months later my mother in law passed away of uterine cancer. In the middle of that, I found out I was pregnant with a surprise baby. I was a hot mess. My sweet husband put his foot down and said no more to the homeschooling. We compromised on a two day a week program (3 days home) for our 3 school age kids. I was so worried about them, and you know what? They thrived. They fussed and complained at first, but it was the best thing for all of us. You can't do it all. But you really need to be willing to do what's best for you kids, and it sounds like homeschooling isn't the best thing for all of you right now. Lots of ((hugs)), it's hard to let go of our ideals sometimes, but it is part of being a good mama.

Sorry about your most difficult season. Thank you for sharing this with us. The "other" side seems scary and it's nice to hear it all can work out in the end. :)

[abba12]

Yep, glad I decided no to post publically. Did you get my PM bookwormsix?

[Pen]

Oh and ill add the poop smearing was only maybe 7 times in the last year.. we would find it after the  fact  had been smeared sometime before. But because this is new and alarming action regardless of frequency and dont think its "normal"... thats why i added it in as a concern and why i got the ball rolling to talk to professionals. and what i didnt say is she has constipation issues and the poop smearing also started around the time her doc put her on a daily laxative. so doc is also exploring physical reasons she might be doing it.

 

 

It is definitely not what I have ever been aware of a normal 8YO doing. Not even 1x in a year.  I am glad you are not dealing with it with great frequency but it is certainly alarming. The other things you mentioned about this child are also alarming.

 

I hope the doctor will find a physical reason that can be dealt with readily once understood, but think it more likely that there is an emotional / psychiatric cause for this, the lying, stealing, behavior outbursts and other symptoms you described.

[Pen]

I'm glad that you got the ball rolling in talking to professionals, btw. I would be concerned, though, that it seems to have taken a lot to get you concerned enough to do so, that it taking 7 time of fecal smearing, and the other behaviors mentioned, might indicate how overwhelmed, or depressed or whatever is going on you are, such that you cannot deal with things until they become pretty extreme.

 

Also wondering, as the eldest child, does the 8YO end up with some of the burden of times when you cannot cope?

[bookwormsix]

I'm glad that you got the ball rolling in talking to professionals, btw. I would be concerned, though, that it seems to have taken a lot to get you concerned enough to do so, that it taking 7 time of fecal smearing, and the other behaviors mentioned, might indicate how overwhelmed, or depressed or whatever is going on you are, such that you cannot deal with things until they become pretty extreme.

The first time we discovered it , we looked into getting help right away. got into see her doc. got the referrals at that time. 

the other times happened in clusters , finding 3 or so spots at a time. not sure if they were all done at same time or over time. but all the time it was hidden wherever it was so we didnt find it until later. and unknown quite when it happened. but all in all , we and her have probably had to clean it off of somewhere 7 times. but there seemed to be a long time between the first time  and some of the others. such a long time after the last time and the most recent findings, we actually thought it had stopped. it was when i saw that it was still happening that i got into see doc. and also called to see what was happening with referral ,and asked to become a priority, at the clinical psychology they made her case urgent. she had been been low down on waiting list until i called about two weeks ago. calling again on monday to tell them i have not heard from anyone yet.

Also wondering, as the eldest child, does the 8YO end up with some of the burden of times when you cannot cope?

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by bookwormsix

[Mergath]

Anyways I've spent way to many hours immersed in this forum. Supposing for this moment inspite of issues HSING is what we are working with. Issues are being dealt with .....

We have established that the majority of pepole on this thread believe you can't HS with mental illness. Ok something different... something for the moment. What else can I be doing academically speaking besides sending oldest to scool. Outsourcing....... Teaching textbooks.... coping ideas....

 

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

That isn't it at all. Quite the contrary- many of us are concerned because we've been there, and we know it's not something you can just pull yourself out of through force of will.

 

And like I said, I have a fairly bad case of obsessive-compulsive disorder. I was actually misdiagnosed for several years with BPD, so I'm fairly well versed in that, too. My dh has bipolar disorder. Believe me, if I thought people couldn't homeschool with mental illness, I wouldn't be homeschooling my dd.

 

I know it's easy to turn on and villify people who tell you things you don't want to hear when you have BPD, but please hear what we're saying and know that it comes from a place of concern.  :grouphug: Keep nagging whoever you need to in order to get your daughter in as soon as possible. I'm worried for her.

[bookwormsix]

This thread has been going down hill for some time.

 

I got all the advice i need , thank you.

 

1) get help for myself first 

2) get help for eldest

3) put homeschooling on back burner and focus on peace and routine in home

4) consider other options for kids, public school, playschool etc.

5) get extra help around house ie mothers helper etc.

 

Got it.

 

The comments that are in addition to this have started to become very critical , judgmental, accusatory, and trying to use my words against me. 

What was supposed to be helpful and supportive has started to feel at certain points  like a personal attack.

 

I wish this thread would just end.

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by bookwormsix

[8circles]

This thread has been going down hill for some time.

 

I got all the advice i need , thank you.

 

1) get help for myself first 

2) get help for eldest

3) put homeschooling on back burner and focus on peace and routine in home

4) consider other options for kids, public school, playschool etc.

5) get extra help around house ie mothers helper etc.

 

Got it.

 

The comments that are addition to this have started to become very critical , judgmental, accusatory, and trying to use my words against me. 

What was supposed to be helpful and supportive has started to feel at certain points  like a personal attack.

 

I wish this thread would just end.

 

I'm sorry that you're feeling personally attacked.  But even the posters who weren't simply 100% positive weren't critical, juedgementalm or accusatory, nor did they use your words against you.  We don't know you.  You've come to this forum for help with a very serious problem.  People have tried to give you helpful advice or feedback.  Your response to that is coming across as if you don't realize how serious the problem is.  We are concerned. 

[bookwormsix]

I'm sorry that you're feeling personally attacked.  But even the posters who weren't simply 100% positive weren't critical, juedgementalm or accusatory, nor did they use your words against you.  We don't know you.  You've come to this forum for help with a very serious problem.  People have tried to give you helpful advice or feedback.  Your response to that is coming across as if you don't realize how serious the problem is.  We are concerned. 

 

Thank you,

But I am done looking for advice.

I appreciate the concerns and experience and tips.

I have thoughtfully read all of your responses.

Thanks again

[8circles]

Thank you,

But I am done looking for advice.

I appreciate the concerns and experience and tips.

I have thoughtfully read all of your responses.

Thanks again

 

You're welcome.

I'm not giving you advice.

I'm letting you know that you are seeing criticism, judgement, accusation, and attack where there is none.

 

Best of luck.

[Ausmumof3]

Thank you,

But I am done looking for advice.

I appreciate the concerns and experience and tips.

I have thoughtfully read all of your responses.

Thanks again

If you are unhappy, you can request the moderators to delete or lock the thread. May be the best thing at this point in time. Wishing you all the best for the future.

[bookwormsix]

You're welcome.

I'm not giving you advice.

I'm letting you know that you are seeing criticism, judgement, accusation, and attack where there is none.

 

Best of luck.

 

Thank you for your point of view , on how you see this thread.

thanks for letting me know.

thanks for the best wishes.

[bookwormsix]

If you are unhappy, you can request the moderators to delete or lock the thread. May be the best thing at this point in time. Wishing you all the best for the future.

Thank you,

i have messaged them to see what should be done. no response yet.

thanks for the best wishes

[abba12]

I'm sorry that you're feeling personally attacked.  But even the posters who weren't simply 100% positive weren't critical, juedgementalm or accusatory, nor did they use your words against you.  We don't know you.  You've come to this forum for help with a very serious problem.  People have tried to give you helpful advice or feedback.  Your response to that is coming across as if you don't realize how serious the problem is.  We are concerned. 

 

As someone also homeschooling with mental illness, I disagree. This got hurtful in a way people not dealing with mental health issues may not understand. Certain things said here would apply to my family as well, and became upsetting. The helpful advice started becoming insistent, based on vague assumptions, and condescending. 

 

:grouphug:  bookwormsix

[zoobie]

If there is a religious school nearby that would otherwise work for your family, check into scholarships. We have friends who switched schools mid-year to a small religious school and were offered generous scholarships despite having what I'd consider to be a very comfortable income. Even if it only fit your second child, that might take a little off your plate while keeping with your family values.

[8circles]

As someone also homeschooling with mental illness, I disagree. This got hurtful in a way people not dealing with mental health issues may not understand. Certain things said here would apply to my family as well, and became upsetting. The helpful advice started becoming insistent, based on vague assumptions, and condescending. 

 

:grouphug:  bookwormsix

 

Many of the posts, frankly the most blunt, are by people who also homeschool with mental illness or at least have experience with it in their families.

 

I'm sorry that you've been upset by some posts.  As someone who has very personal experience with mental illness in my family, the posters here have been honest while being very kind.  I understand how that honesty can be upsetting but that doesn't make it any of the negatives that your claiming.