S/O Guns and Open Carry...is it a right just for White Men?

[8circles]

 Instead of having one man carrying a gun, they'll now have a few dozen!

 

Ummm, glory be?  hallelujah?  I'm not sure how to react to that.

 

It might be more effective if the gun-toters waved their arms around in a mystical fashion and said "be not afriad" and "God is love" and "pay no attention to the weapons that we carry that could kill you before you could say 'amen'".

[8circles]

 

 

I think it's fine that the business owner was concerned and asked the man what he was doing. It's too bad he didn't do it in a more appropriate way or just call police. It the man with the gun was up to no good, the business owner may not be here now.

 

Right.  Because openly carrying a weapon is *threatening behavior*.

[swimmermom3]

I have an update on this story. The business owner was NOT the person who called the police. The man who was carrying called police because they would not let him pass on the sidewalk and were threatening him. Open carry is legal and that's why the police helped him pass the business. The man who was open carrying later asked the business owner if he was willing to sit down and calmly talk and they did. The business owner said he was just concerned that the man had bad intentions and that's why he yelled at him, but after talking later they left on good terms. The business owner's actions upset the open carry advocates and they now plan to do an "education walk" in that area. Instead of having one man carrying a gun, they'll now have a few dozen!

 

I think it's fine that the business owner was concerned and asked the man what he was doing. It's too bad he didn't do it in a more appropriate way or just call police. It the man with the gun was up to no good, the business owner may not be here now.

 

I wonder how helpful an "education/intimidation walk" will be in changing people's minds?

 

The owner and the man carrying worked it out. It should be left at that.

 

[Joker]

I wonder how helpful an "education/intimidation walk" will be in changing people's minds?

 

The owner and the man carrying worked it out. It should be left at that.

 

 

Yeah, it only makes me see them as bigger nutters than I originally did. 

[Greta]

Yeah, it only makes me see them as bigger nutters than I originally did.

Which I wouldn't have thought possible, but alas.

[Joules]

This is so confusing and I can't imagine the ultimate interaction it leads to.

I read above they worked it out in video, but I can't see this playing out peacefully over and over again.

 

Let's say that someone like the open carry guy walks by a barber shop. Everyone in the barber shop knows the neighborhood playground is around the corner.  Should they call the police...after all it's legal?  Should they go out on the sidewalk and prevent him from passing (heroically preventing another tragedy like the ones we've seen recently)?  Really, if the playground is a block or two away there's not time to call the police.  

 

Above it sounds like if people try to stop him, they are threatening and violating his rights.  Do we have to actually sit and wait for him to start blowing away kids before we do anything.  Prevention actually seems to be getting further away.  (I think some people would have to imagine him Middle Eastern to imagine how terrifying I find it.)

 

What if I'm eating breakfast at a restaurant and someone comes in heavily armed?  Now I know to duck and run out the back door, but if that is the norm does everyone just sit there and wait to see if he is one of the crazies

 

I know some of you live in rural areas where you know everyone, but in populated areas you don't.  We've been able to recognize the bad guys because they come in loaded for bear.  You call the police when someone is brandishing a weapon.  Now will they say, "I'm sorry they have to shoot someone before we come," because open carry is legal?  These people are potentially seconds from drawing and blowing everyone away.  

 

I think we are going to see lots more shootings and in stand-your-ground states, fewer arrests, because everyone is armed and people just say, "It looked like he was going for his gun!"  Does every shooting become justified because everyone is just a draw away from killing everyone else?

 

These are just early morning ponderings because I can't get that video out of my mind.  I'm trying to see the world that everyone in support of this guy wants.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Joules

[Hikin' Mama]

This is so confusing and I can't imagine the ultimate interaction it leads to.

I read above they worked it out in video, but I can't see this playing out peacefully over and over again.

 

Let's say that someone like the open carry guy walks by a barber shop. Everyone in the barber shop knows the neighborhood playground is around the corner. Should they call the police...after all it's legal? Should they go out on the sidewalk and prevent him from passing (heroically preventing another tragedy like the ones we've seen recently)? Really, if the playground is a block or two away there's not time to call the police.

 

Above it sounds like if people try to stop him, they are threatening and violating his rights. Do we have to actually sit and wait for him to start blowing away kids before we do anything. Prevention actually seems to be getting further away. (I think some people would have to imagine him Middle Eastern to imagine how terrifying I find it.)

 

What if I'm eating breakfast at a restaurant and someone comes in heavily armed? Now I know to duck and run out the back door, but if that is the norm does everyone just sit there and wait to see if he is one of the crazies

 

I know some of you live in rural areas where you know everyone, but in populated areas you don't. We've been able to recognize the bad guys because they come in loaded for bear. You call the police when someone is brandishing a weapon. Now will they say, "I'm sorry they have to shoot someone before we come," because open carry is legal? These people are potentially seconds from drawing and blowing everyone away.

 

I think we are going to see lots more shootings and in stand-your-ground states, fewer arrests, because everyone is armed and people just say, "It looked like he was going for his gun!" Does every shooting become justified because everyone is just a draw away from killing everyone else?

 

These are just early morning ponderings because I can't get that video out of my mind. I'm trying to see the world that everyone in support of this guy wants.

All of your ponderings are why I don't think people should be allowed to open carry. I didn't even know open carry was a thing until relatively recently, in spite of growing up in a house where guns were present because my dad is an avid hunter. I actually had to Google to see if my state is an open carry state. It is. Almost everyone I know has guns, because they are hunters, and my state is mostly conservative, but I have never seen anyone carrying around a gun in public, with the exceptions of police officers. For this I am very thankful.

 

A couple of FB people (not close friends, just people I know) were advocating open carry into places like Starbucks a few months ago. I unfriended them. I don't want that kind of craziness on my FB feed. I do NOT understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea to carry a rifle around in public. I've probably already mentioned that though. :)

[Dmmetler]

The people I would trust most with a gun, other than trained law enforcement or military are hunters. A lot of DD's herp friends are also hunters, and hunters for the hungry is big here. It's common for one or two people on a herping trip to be armed, because if you're going that far off trail to look for box turtles or whatever, you're also going far enough off trail to encounter wolves, Bobcats, deer in rut (who can be quite aggressive) and so on. (Not to mention poachers and other not-nice human types. There is a reason that game and wildlife field agents are considered to be law enforcement, and why DD says the Lego swamp police are actually Lego Wildlife Resources Agents). That doesn't bother me. DD refuses to hunt, but my plan is to have her do the hunter safety course and have some of her experienced Hunter friends teach her to shoot and take her to the range because it's a skill set that she probably should have if she is going to be a field herpetologist.

 

Someone in Walmart with an obvious gun (other than one in a box being purchased, like an air rifle or something) who isn't a uniformed LEO? That would bother me. Someone in Walmart with a non-obvious gun who isn't a uniformed LEO? That bothers me, too.

[Audrey]

Black men die for carrying knives, let alone guns, openly. Even walking around a store or home from the store after purchasing a gun makes them vulnerable to state santioned killing. I do not support open carry because everyone does not share equally in that right and open/concealed carriers make deadly mistakes too often.

 

Black men die for carrying Skittles. 

[mommaduck]

There are video comparisons online. A black man open carry and he's surrounded and made to get on his stomach with hands up, gun confiscated, taken in. White men, approached, talked to, informed that it makes people uncomfortable, allowed to continue on their way.

 

Only trained LEOs please. Though, in some parts of the country, depending upon circumstances, this can be normal (hunters along forested roads, desert, Alaska).

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have an update on this story. The business owner was NOT the person who called the police. The man who was carrying called police because they would not let him pass on the sidewalk and were threatening him. Open carry is legal and that's why the police helped him pass the business. The man who was open carrying later asked the business owner if he was willing to sit down and calmly talk and they did. The business owner said he was just concerned that the man had bad intentions and that's why he yelled at him, but after talking later they left on good terms. The business owner's actions upset the open carry advocates and they now plan to do an "education walk" in that area. Instead of having one man carrying a gun, they'll now have a few dozen!

 

I think it's fine that the business owner was concerned and asked the man what he was doing. It's too bad he didn't do it in a more appropriate way or just call police. It the man with the gun was up to no good, the business owner may not be here now.

The open carry advocates are not helping themselves acting like this. But it doesn't matter to them because..Rights! 'Murica!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Carrying a rifle around in public is a deterrent. Terrorist is depending on his range being greater than anyone carrying a concealed hand gun.

 

I will bet people start lobbing gas grenades or knives when the perp stands up and begins firing in a closed room. Might give concealed carry pistol owners a chance to swarm before the perp pauses.

Wait...whut?

[CadenceSophia]

It is normal to open and concealed carry where I live. I know we can't assign rights based on how "scary" people look, but I do wonder if the fools carrying around long guns like this guy fall under anti-brandishing laws. His finger is practically on the trigger -- why is it not strapped to his back? I am typically not in favor of limiting gun rights, but carrying long guns in populated areas is unnecessary. I am very comfortable with concealed and open carry hand guns by respectable and moderately respectable looking people :) Anyone I know that would need to transport a long gun in public uses a case.

[Lady Florida.]

Apparently in Florida* the answer is to the question in the title is yes. And they'll give the cop an award for it.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/11/florida-officer-charged-with-manslaughter-in-death-of-jermaine-mcbean-fatally-shot-while-carrying-an-air-rifle/

 

 

*Florida does not have open carry, though there is currently a bill trying to make it so. However, public open carry is legal here if you are going to or from legal hunting or shooting expeditions.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Lady Florida

[frogger]

I watched a video demonstration of the difference in how a white person who was open carrying was treated by a cop and a black person. Keep in mind that it turned out to be two different cops who confronted the black and the white demonstrator so we cannot say how the same cops would have reacted if they had encountered the other race.

 

That being said the police officer had a conversation with the white demonstrator. The black man was told to lay on the ground AT drawn gun point. Mind you the rifle was on his BACK and he was laying on the ground. There was absolutely no reason for the cop to continue to keep the gun pointed at him WITH finger on the trigger while he waited for back up other than the officer was frightened out of his senses because a black man had a gun or he was extraordinarily poorly trained. Police have a poor track record with safety nation wide. I think some areas are better than others.

[Laurie4b]

I don't know that I've ever seen open-carry. If so, it was handguns.  I think that open carry handguns would be less intimidating than open carry long-gun-slung-across-your-chest-in-suburbia .  That would freak me out no matter who was carrying it. I would think they were a nutter or a zealot  and a nutter or zealot with a gun isn't a good combination. I'd be exiting the scene as soon as possible.

[Halftime Hope]

Even law enforcement open carrying is a little weird. It's intimidating and uncomfortable for anyone to be open carrying. But then, you don't know who is carrying concealed anyway. At least those guns are smaller? And they have registered to have a permit?

 

Responding to the bolded sentence above. 

 

Every LEO with a holstered pistol on a belt is open carrying. That is the way LEOs in many areas of the county are customarily equipped, depending on which branch of LE they work for.  So, debi21, I'm surprised that it would feel weird to you.  LEOs don't typically open carry rifles (for example on a 2 or 3 point harness, like the moron in Umsami's picture.)  An officer may have a rifle in the squad car, but I've never seen a regular officer (non-SWAT) toting a rifle as he made a traffic stop.  The only uniformed personnel that routinely carry (walk around with) long guns, in my experience, are National Guard who are assigned to some kind of temporary protective duty in a public place.

[Halftime Hope]

I find the photo disturbing, menacing, and creepy. I question the emotional stability of those who WANT to open carry. I also question the morals of anyone who sees the above photo, thinks it's ok and believes 'those people' should be watched. I also question the cult-like groups think in communities where nobody bats an eye at Jim Bob and Cooter walking around the Walmarts with their rifles at the ready.

 

I grew up in a culture that uses guns as a tool and doesn't fear them. My father and brothers are avid hunters. A good day in the woods can put meat on the table for weeks. I think it's a valuable life skill and a more humane and ecologically sound way to get meat. I have no problem with properly stored rifles being in the same house with children. It perplexes me to live in the burbs and hear on the news that the same community has both a hunger problem AND a deer problem. That's just nuts. Even WITH this background and mindset I think it's beyond weird that people WANT to walk around town and shops armed.

 

I'm not one who thinks it's necessary to disarm the citizenry, but no civilian needs to own a semi-automatic weapon, much less brandish it in public. Joe public does NOT need more ready access to a weapon than a soldier. Military weapons are locked down and highly controlled! I seriously question the judgement of people who think it's just dandy to parade around locked and loaded like that. It's a problem that inexplicably did not get nipped in the bud and has gotten insanely out of hand.

 

The bolded is a bit of a misnomer.   A semi-auto just means that with the first trigger pull, the weapon fires a bullet and then chambers another one without the shooter having to do it manually.  An automatic weapon is able to fire multiple shots with one trigger pull. (That's not exactly all of it, but the concept is close enough.) 

 

Back to semi-autos.  There are many, many civilian guns that are semi-auto. Automatic guns generally are highly regulated and require an expensive stamp and permitting process to legally own one.  Some semi-auto long guns can be modified to be auto, but afaik, it's illegal without going through proper licensing.

 

Many, many civilians consider it prudent to have semi-auto pistols and semi-auto "big arse" long guns for self-defense, although with a rifle, you have to be mindful of the distance a round will travel.  You generally don't have the luxury of positioning an intruder in front of a berm if they're in your house.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Halftime Hope

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Responding to the bolded sentence above. 

 

Every LEO with a holstered pistol on a belt is open carrying. That is the way LEOs in many areas of the county are customarily equipped, depending on which branch of LE they work for.  So, debi21, I'm surprised that it would feel weird to you.  LEOs don't typically open carry rifles (for example on a 2 or 3 point harness, like the moron in Umsami's picture.)  An officer may have a rifle in the squad car, but I've never seen a regular officer (non-SWAT) toting a rifle as he made a traffic stop.  The only uniformed personnel that routinely carry (walk around with) long guns, in my experience, are National Guard who are assigned to some kind of temporary protective duty in a public place.

 

Not everyone lives wear all LEOs carry sidearms openly.

[frogger]

I am a gun advocate but I will automatically assume someone carrying a rifle around in the city is stupid therefore yes, I will be nervous. Rifles are unwieldy if you are being jumped. Rifles are made for distance which is exacatly what you don't want in a city for self defense. We have rifles because we hunt and such but we don't hunt in a city full of people. If you are carrying for self protection in a city you should have a hand gun.

 

Have I carried a long barrel around on my back for self protection? Yes, but that was because I was walking two miles through bear infested country to work all day by myself entirely off the road system. Even then it wasn't a rifle, just a shot gun. You typically don't need distance if you really are defending yourself.

 

The people doing these things are doing them for show and I don't think it is really helpful.

[Halftime Hope]

Not everyone lives wear all LEOs carry sidearms openly.

 

Which is why I qualified my explanation with "in many areas of the country."

[Halftime Hope]

http://www.kvia.com/news/open-carry-101-what-you-need-to-know-about-changes-in-texas-open-carry-laws/35867230  Here's a good summary of the law which goes into effect Jan 1 in the Lone Star state, legalizing open carry of pistols, but only for CHL holders.  I would like to see a CHL-holder requirement for ALL open carry.

[Slojo]

You should absolutely not be allowed to wear a mask while you open carry. Those men are disgusting and that's harassment and a hate crime. He's not a white man carrying a gun, he's a man in a mask carrying a gun. What exactly is he hiding?

 

I absolutely agree that the mask, on any person, makes this intimidating and disgusting. AND, I don't want to brush aside the fact that there's been quite a few "open carry" pictures and videos going around the internet, and they have pretty much to a fault been white men "posturing." And I think there is something to that. To the original question - yes, I think that in this country, it is a de facto right reserved just for white men. Let a person of color try that, and see how far they get. (Oh, that's right, people of color -- with TOY guns in their hands, IN open-carry states have already been gunned down while white men get "talked to." We do ourselves a disservice as a country when we are less than honest about that double-standard. BUT, I don't want anybody of any color being allowed to open carry. Don't care for those "laws" at all.  

Because of situations like that loser in the picture stalking a Muslim woman. (Also, at a bare minimum, I'm thinking open carry has got to mean no covering your face. Geez.)

 

Agreed. This is not the only case of intimidating Muslim people (or other minority groups). We've got some serious warped mash-up of ethnic intimidation and crazy gun laws and zenophobia among a small, but very real segment of folks "who want their country back," and are willing to do everything up to that fine line between "legal" and "illegal" to make their presence known... And then there's the folks who actually carry their warped fantasies out...

 

Meh.  I think if it's true they were following her around, those guys were harassing her, and if I were her and I were being followed I would have called the police and asked for a restraining order if they followed me after making more than one turn.

 

Generally I think those who are carrying holstered weapons are not a threat.

People carrying hunting weapons in hunting season are not a threat.

 

Even though I am generally supportive of gun rights, I think people who open carry rifles into places to make a political point are jerks and it's bad behavior designed to scare people.  Having been raised in a stand your ground state, being a jerk with a weapon is at best foolish and at worst deadly.  Don't be a jerk.

Sorry, I can't just say "meh" to this. This is racially-motivated intimidation. And I bet the Muslim woman was not saying, "meh." Part of being a threat is doing just enough to instill fear so that people "know their place." Not everyone has to get lynched to establish an environment of fear and intimidation. I think you underplay it, and underestimate that factor and how it impacts minority groups, in particular, in the history and current tenor of at least some parts of the country.  With this country's difficult past of night riders, lynchings, sundown towns, church bombings -- all of which are linked to a history of racial intimidation -- I think we should be cautious with 'meh' type reactions. Or at least acknowledge that our "meh" might be another person's terror.   

 

I don't know. It gets cold in my open carry state and people cover their faces in cold weather. While I agree the guy in the picture looks like he's trying to be intimidating, I'm not sure the police would be able to do much other than watch him.

Don't be obtuse -- do you think the Muslim woman -- in a country in which there are plenty of people who will openly state that they don't like Muslims or think that Muslims are prone to terrorism, etc... was scared or not. He wasn't covering his face because he was cold. Both people's clothing looks like it was a generally warm day - not "I'm afraid of frostbite" weather. She has a maxi sundress and rolled up sleeves with the buttons open and he has some pseudo-militia attire on that looks like maybe too many layers for the weather, and certainly not bearing down for the next Arctic blast. Don't give this photo even tepid legitimization. Zero. This behavior should be illegal. 

 

You know what?  We really don't. 

 

If every group is to be held responsible for the bad behavior of some members of that group (even assuming they really *are* members of that group), then there can be no group can exist.

 

Except...that same sentiment isn't being afforded to Muslims, who are in a variety of ways asked over and over again to account for the actions of an extremist few that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslim folk. So, nice to say if you're not Muslim...or black... Happens to minority groups all the time -- maybe, for a time, it's time to ask "regular" white Christians to account for their extremist brethren. I really want to know what you are doing to keep them in line.  Now I don't actually believe that, but minority groups are asked to be held responsible for the bad behaviors of some members of their group. all. the. time.

Black men die for carrying Skittles. 

Yes. Forget open carry - we're not even guaranteed Skittles wouldn't be too intimidating. I'm going to come down and say "open carry" is not a policy that is being evenly applied to all individuals. It is a de facto "white man's privilege." I would not recommend any person of color do open-carry as a general rule. We are shot for much, much less.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Slojo

[KungFuPanda]

The bolded is a bit of a misnomer. A semi-auto just means that with the first trigger pull, the weapon fires a bullet and then chambers another one without the shooter having to do it manually. An automatic weapon is able to fire multiple shots with one trigger pull. (That's not exactly all of it, but the concept is close enough.)

 

Back to semi-autos. There are many, many civilian guns that are semi-auto. Automatic guns generally are highly regulated and require an expensive stamp and permitting process to legally own one. Some semi-auto long guns can be modified to be auto, but afaik, it's illegal without going through proper licensing.

 

Many, many civilians consider it prudent to have semi-auto pistols and semi-auto "big arse" long guns for self-defense, although with a rifle, you have to be mindful of the distance a round will travel. You generally don't have the luxury of positioning an intruder in front of a berm if they're in your house.

Thank you for the clarification, but I wasn't always a civilian. I do get that most guns are now semi-automatic and that just seems crazy to me. How often does any civilian ever really need more firepower than you can get from a rifle or a revolver? And at Walmart? I'm not saying confiscate people's legal weapons, but keeping the hardcore stuff at home wouldn't be out of line. Besides, a semi-automatic can be more accurate than a machine gun. I haven't checked the stats, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the majority of public shooting incidents where a civilian pulled the trigger were NOT in the interest of public or self defense.

[frogger]

Hmm, and you think when police and military pull a trigger it is always in the publics best interest?

 

Perhaps we read different history books and newspapers.

[Joules]

 

 

Except...that same sentiment isn't being afforded to Muslims, who are in a variety of ways asked over and over again to account for the actions of an extremist few that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslim folk. So, nice to say if you're not Muslim...or black... Happens to minority groups all the time -- maybe, for a time, it's time to ask "regular" white Christians to account for their extremist brethren. I really want to know what you are doing to keep them in line.  Now I don't actually believe that, but minority groups are asked to be held responsible for the bad behaviors of some members of their group. all. the. time.

 

 

Yes. Forget open carry - we're not even guaranteed Skittles wouldn't be too intimidating. I'm going to come down and say "open carry" is not a policy that is being evenly applied to all individuals. It is a de facto "white man's privilege." I would not recommend any person of color do open-carry as a general rule. We are shot for much, much less.

 

I can't bring myself to "like" your post, but I agree.  We've seen a couple of open-carry issues in the counties north of us and I'm pretty sure they would have ended with more than just a conversation if the carriers weren't white.

[Halftime Hope]

Thank you for the clarification, but I wasn't always a civilian. I do get that most guns are now semi-automatic and that just seems crazy to me. How often does any civilian ever really need more firepower than you can get from a rifle or a revolver? And at Walmart? I'm not saying confiscate people's legal weapons, but keeping the hardcore stuff at home wouldn't be out of line. Besides, a semi-automatic can be more accurate than a machine gun. I haven't checked the stats, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the majority of public shooting incidents where a civilian pulled the trigger were NOT in the interest of public or self defense.

 

 

I'm sorry, KungFuPanda. I'm not sure I'm following your argument.  I'd like to understand the point you are making. Would you mind restating?

 

Civilians who are pursuing self-defense are absolutely well-justified in having "more firepower" (although that, too, is a misnomer) than what one can get from a rifle (assuming you mean a lever or bolt action rifle, which needs a motion to chamber each new round) or from a revolver.  (You get into murky territory comparing a revolver's action to a rifle's though.)

 

Intruders/perps will not be carrying a bolt or lever action rifle or a revolver.  For the defender, it's more about the speed with which you can address threats and about the ease of reloading, although some pistols have 9 or 10 round capacity which is indeed "more" than a six-gun, but not more than, say, a lever action rifle. In a self-defense situation, those three are all valid considerations.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Halftime Hope

[mom2scouts]

A black pastor in my area just conducted a social experiment to see what would happen if he walked around carrying a long gun on his back in a predominantly white neighborhood. Lots of people called the police to report it. Do you know what the police did? NOTHING. They told people that they were aware of the man carrying the gun and since we are in an open carry state the man was within his rights to be carrying. The police in this city are well trained on the laws of open carry  and don't overreact.

[KungFuPanda]

I'm sorry, KungFuPanda. I'm not sure I'm following your argument. I'd like to understand the point you are making. Would you mind restating?

 

Civilians who are pursuing self-defense are absolutely well-justified in having "more firepower" (although that, too, is a misnomer) than what one can get from a rifle (assuming you mean a lever or bolt action rifle, which needs a motion to chamber each new round) or from a revolver. (You get into murky territory comparing a revolver's action to a rifle's though.)

 

Intruders/perps will not be carrying a bolt or lever action rifle or a revolver. For the defender, it's more about the speed with which you can address threats and about the ease of reloading, although some pistols have 9 or 10 round capacity which is indeed "more" than a six-gun, but not more than, say, a lever action rifle. In a self-defense situation, those three are all valid considerations.

My point is, how often is the life of a homeowner lost because his self defense weapon was not a semi-automatic? I'm asking if anybody has the numbers that make the distinction between homeowners who survived a shoot-out with semi-automatics vs those who perished because they couldn't get off enough rounds in that situation.

 

Even if you can make the point that these weapons make sense on private property, how did we get to the point where it's ok to carry them into the grocery store? I think that's bazaar and surreal. I don't understand how we allowed the general public to stockpile military-style weapons. I also don't get WHY it's legal to purchase a kit that will transform your semi-auto into a machine gun.

 

It's not like we have to guess what the results will be if we banned semi-automatics. Other countries have done it in VERY recent history. Had their death rate by criminal shootings risen, it would be a VERY good reason not to consider a ban at all. However, that's not what happened. The formula has been the same. A tragic mass shooting happens, semi-automatics are banned, gun laws are made more restrictive, and homicides and suicides by firearms drop drastically. They are living full, productive, and safe lives without semi-automatics of any kind. They're still hunting and chasing critters and intruders off their property. I don't know why we are so afraid to follow that model.

 

Don't get me wrong. I grew up with guns and a model for responsible ownership. I get why it's important to hunt and defend your home. I was in the military. I understand that those weapons have a use and a place. However, I think things have gotten really weird lately and I question the emotional stability of people who arm themselves for a trip to Cracker Barrel. I also worry about people living in communities where this behavior has become normalized.

[frogger]

That is good to hear, Mom2Scouts. I wish it were that equal everywhere.

 

The last time I was camped in California on the beach we had police with SWAT gear roaming around to take care of a kid with a TOY gun. I don't think I'd let my children play with toy guns in metro areas of California no matter what color they are.

[JessReplanted]

I didn't vote, but I think that picture the OP shared is just horrible. I think that only trained law enforcement should be walking around with visible weapons. Why carry a rifle around if you don't intend to use it (and you are not in the woods hunting)? It is just crazy.

[debinindy]

Black men die for carrying Skittles. 

That is not true and misrepresents the facts of the case.