Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Our 14 year old started needing lots more sleep earlier this year. (We noticed it in January). Previously, she would go to bed around 9 or 9:30 and get up at 6:00 (sometimes earlier). She would jog about half a mile and then come in and start breakfast and so on. Currently, she goes to bed at 9:00 and is absolutely exhausted at 6:00. Her solution to this is to go into the bathroom when she's called to wake up and stay there for about 15 minutes. When I asked if there was any stomach problems or anything, she told me that she was just tired and had trouble moving around. Sometimes she goes into the bathroom for fifteen minutes, comes out and works for five minutes and then goes back into the bathroom for another ten. DH has teased her, yelled at her, grounded her and so on, but nothing gets her out of the bathroom. If we tell her that someone else needs to use the bathroom, she still doesn't emerge for a few more minutes. She claims she is tired and not ill. (She has Celiac Disease so I am always observant if I see her in the bathroom frequently). Is this typical of teenagers? Her wake time and bedtime are not really negotiable. She has evening activities and sometimes isn't home until 8:00. Sometimes she goes to bed before 9:00, but not often. She needs to wake up at 6:00 due to our family's schedule and needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I think it's absolutely typical. There is a ton of research about teenager's changing need for sleep and changing circadian rhythms that makes morning sleep especially important. There is a national movement to try and get high schools to start later, and good evidence for the beneficial cognitive effect of doing so. If it's really non-negotiable, I don't know what to say. I'd be trying to find some way to let her sleep later in the mornings. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/08/19/peds.2014-1696.full.pdf+html http://www.cehd.umn.edu/carei/publications/documents/Bulletin200212Wahlstrom.pdf https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-polls-data/sleep-in-america-poll/2006-teens-and-sleep 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Does she get to sleep right away when she is in bed, or does she read a bit, or maybe it just takes her awhile to get to sleep? Maybe her body isn't really ready to go to sleep at 9:00 so she isn't sleeping right away, and that makes her feel like she needs more sleep in the morning. Also, I think teens definitely DO need more sleep! Mine did. Usually 8-9 hours was sufficient on a school day, though I'm sure one of my daughters could have slept for 12. Is your daughter able to sleep in on the weekends and catch up? Also, waking-up can be very different for different people. Once my alarm goes off, I can jump out of bed within a minute. Some of my kids are like that. My husband will click his snooze button 3 or 4 times, needs to take a looong shower, and still feels a little groggy. Some of my kids are like that. Does she wake up eventually, once she has breakfast, etc? I guess then I wouldn't be as concerned. But if she feels tired all day, I'd definitely want to figure it out. Other things to look into are vitamin D levels, and diet in general. (Has she ever had her iron checked?) Is there any chance she could have mono? (Was she sick recently with anything else? Sometimes strep or other illness exposes mono.) Could she be depressed? Any chance of an eating disorder? (Just brainstorming.) It does seem like some changes need to be made regarding the bathroom time. If she is just moving slowly waiting to wake up, can't she do that in her bedroom? You may need to set some rules (with consequences), and then by observing her out of the bathroom during that time, you will have a better chance to see what is going on and perhaps have more ideas on how to help her. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Does she get to sleep right away when she is in bed, or does she read a bit, or maybe it just takes her awhile to get to sleep? Maybe her body isn't really ready to go to sleep at 9:00 so she isn't sleeping right away, and that makes her feel like she needs more sleep in the morning. Also, I think teens definitely DO need more sleep! Mine did. Usually 8-9 hours was sufficient on a school day, though I'm sure one of my daughters could have slept for 12. Is your daughter able to sleep in on the weekends and catch up? Also, waking-up can be very different for different people. Once my alarm goes off, I can jump out of bed within a minute. Some of my kids are like that. My husband will click his snooze button 3 or 4 times, needs to take a looong shower, and still feels a little groggy. Some of my kids are like that. Does she wake up eventually, once she has breakfast, etc? I guess then I wouldn't be as concerned. But if she feels tired all day, I'd definitely want to figure it out. Other things to look into are vitamin D levels, and diet in general. (Has she ever had her iron checked?) Is there any chance she could have mono? (Was she sick recently with anything else? Sometimes strep or other illness exposes mono.) Could she be depressed? Any chance of an eating disorder? (Just brainstorming.) It does seem like some changes need to be made regarding the bathroom time. If she is just moving slowly waiting to wake up, can't she do that in her bedroom? You may need to set some rules (with consequences), and then by observing her out of the bathroom during that time, you will have a better chance to see what is going on and perhaps have more ideas on how to help her. I should have mentioned that I absolutely, positively believe in the power of sleep and the necessity of it. :) I've frequently stated that I could do just about anything during the day as long as I have a good night's sleep. I don't begrudge her sleep, but I'm worried that nine hours doesn't seem to be enough. In fact, 9 hours seems to be grossly insufficient. Yes, she falls asleep easily by or at 9:00. We've been watching the sleep issue since January and have tried numerous things. (She had a later bedtime that we moved up to 9:00). We make sure the room is dark, no electronics, no texting after she goes to bed, no caffeine or sugar before bedtime and so on. We have a wind-down time that begins around 8:30 when possible with lights out at 9:00. I've started checking on her at night to make sure she's still asleep (not snoring) and I don't hear her move around at night (I'm a light sleeper, I hear when the kids are up). She sleeps in on the week-ends and also naps (both during the week and on week-ends). She is awake after breakfast, but sometimes starts dragging after lunch. She takes Vitamin D due to low levels. She has her iron and everything else checked once a year (this year it was in August). Due to her Celiac Disease, she sees a gastro for a yearly checkup and they are hyper focused on her taking in enough nutrition (she is small for her age). I doubt an eating disorder and her diet is good (again due to her having CD). I suppose that depression is possible, but I'm surprised it hasn't come up with the psychiatrist (she has recently diagnosed ADHD and we're working through medicine). She is rarely sick so I doubt mono unless it could come up silently. I've also told her that she needs to do her waking up in her room and not the bathroom. (I also wonder if she doesn't want to tell me that she's having stomach problems as she knows the next step is an upper/lower gi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My guess is the ADHD meds are causing exhaustion. I know they totally change sleep patterns in my family. If the meds are doing good, you have to adapt her schedule to deal with the side effects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't quite understand the relationship between having trouble waking up and spending time in the bathroom. Does she go to the bathroom because she's being badgered to hurry up and get her day started and she feels that you won't do that if she's in the bathroom? If her sleep needs are changing, like J-rap mentioned above, trying to help her figure out whether she's falling asleep easily, if she's sleeping well, and helping her develop a wakeup routine might help. Maybe something simple as setting her alarm for 15 minutes early, giving her time to 'wake up' in bed rather than jumping out right away. There are dozens of ways people wake up, and maybe a different method will work for her. Dh gets up as soon as he wakes up, but I set my silent alarm for 6 even though I don't get up until 6:15. My method would would drive dh crazy, and his wouldn't work for me. I feel for you- tired teenagers are no fun to wake up to each morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 My guess is the ADHD meds are causing exhaustion. I know they totally change sleep patterns in my family. If the meds are doing good, you have to adapt her schedule to deal with the side effects. I would agree but the sleep problems have been since January and the meds in the past month. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My son needs between 10-12 hours of sleep to be fully rested. he can function with less, it's just not ideal for him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 If she's spending that much time in the bathroom resting or trying to wake up, perhaps that same amount of time would be put to better use letting her sleep for another 15-30 minutes. You could at least try it and see if it helps. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I guess my solution would be to find a way to allow her to sleep until she wakes up for a while. See where her natural rhythm falls. Yes, there are family schedules, but I would do my best to see if allowing her to follow her natural pattern would help matters. Other than that, make sure she has time for a good nap during the day. Oops. Just noticed she is in ps. I am guessing that has something to do with her having to get up so early? Naps may be her only possible solution. But, yes, teens do often start needing more sleep. Just be glad she can get to sleep at 9. Most teens cannot. They start being unable to fall asleep until much later, even if they are tired during the day from getting up early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 9 hours may very well not be enough. I remember in highschool often taking a nap as soon as I got home, I was just so tired. I was sleeping at night from 10pm to about 6am, and taking a several hour nap as well, and was still often tired. Teens need a LOT of sleep. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 One of mine seriously needed 11 hours until she got to be around 17..... Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooksandBoys Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Because I was heavily involved in activities and committed to being a top student in my PS, I never indulged my increased need for sleep as a teen. I ended up sick all the time. My mom used to joke, when I caught yet another cold, that this was my body's way of making me sleep. My brothers, however, both went through a period of about a year and a half where they slept an average of twelve hours a night between nights, naps, and catching up on weekends. They were also, incidentally, shockingly healthy. Teens need a lot of sleep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lailasmum Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My eldest is only 11 but well into puberty. She easily sleeps 11 to 12 hours a night. Can you let her just sleep until she naturally wakes up even a few days a week and just see what she actually needs to wake feeling refreshed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You have to factor in the medication she is taking. Her doctor should have some info for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 If you've narrowed down most other factors and believe that lack of sleep is the issue, then try a month or two of her getting to bed by 7:30 or 8:00pm. It's easier this time of year to get to bed earlier with the days getting shorter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 She needs to wake up at 6:00 due to our family's schedule and needs. I don't understand why a 6am wakeup call is non-negotiable for a home-schooled teen when she is often spending 25 minutes in the morning resting in the bathroom. Let the poor kid sleep in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I love to sleep. When I was 18 I got a job that required shift work. That'll mess with your sleep! Because of the job, I started reading up a lot about sleep. The subject fascinates me. I have a husband who gets terrible sleep, but mostly because he stays up too late. He hates it when I start talking about sleep because I've been reading up on the topic for 24 years now. :) He's sick of hearing about it (and about how he needs to get to bed earlier.) From all my 24 years of being fascinated with the subject and reading about it, I've learned that teenagers require a dramatic increase in the amount of sleep they get. Also, and this drives parents batty, their body rhythms change and they'll find themselves wide awake later than usual and utterly exhausted early in the morning. This means they need to go to bed late and wake up late. Schools are slowly (like a glacier) keying into this. Some high schools have changed their start times to be later to accommodate this natural body rhythm of falling asleep later and waking later, and they've seen improvements in the students' performances. (And fewer late arrivals.) My advice to you is to google this. It's everywhere. You're not going to like it, your DH isn't going to like it, but badgering her and berating her for it won't help in the least. This is very normal and if you pick on her about it you'll just frustrate everyone, especially her. She can't help it. Read up on it and see that it's perfectly normal. No, it doesn't happen to everyone, but it does happen to the majority. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also, if she's that tired, she's probably waking up from the deepest part of her sleep cycle. You may want to read about lengths of sleep cycles. For example: you hit a deep cycle 45 minutes into sleep that lasts for 45 minutes. So, if you nap, be sure to wake up before 45 minutes into the nap OR be sure to sleep through the entire cycle (hour and a half.) Letting her sleep a few extra minutes may give her time to finish up a cycle. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 For my public school kids who had zero-hour classes all thru high school (had to be in class by 6:20am), naps were the only solution. Then, we would let them sleep late most Saturdays just to "catch up". My high schoolers have always had a 9pm bedtime. This gave them quiet time to "wind down" in their rooms and generally be asleep by 10pm. But 8 hours rarely was enough and so they napped after school for an hour just to survive. If she is willing to try bedtime at 8pm so she is asleep by 9, that extra hour may make all the difference. But she may still be groggy in the morning - moving fast may just not be possible until she is fully awake. Have her do everything possible the night before so she is grab-and-go in the mornings getting out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Sorry for not replying sooner. I'm parked on the couch myself sleeping off a sinus infection. :) I'll try to adjust my profile, but if you read it, adjust everyone up a year in ages and grades. Yes, she is home-schooled. We have a co-op on Mondays and need to leave the house at 7:30. (Incidentally, on co-op days, she is up at 5:30 in order to shower before others are awake). On Wednesdays, she has a volunteer project that starts at 8:00 that she can't change up - she's scheduled into it and it's one that she initiated and designed teaching senior citizens how to use computers. On Thursdays, she has an online class that starts at 8:00. Our oldest is in public school and needs to leave the house by 7:10 (we drive her and meet her para professional at 7:20 at the school). I get up at 6:00 and bathe her and get her ready for the day (this is a lot more complicated than it sounds). We have both goats and chickens. DH gets up around 5:00 and finishes morning chores around 6:20. Our other two girls (including the one with the sleep problem) wake up at 6:00 and start breakfast, which is usually ready around 6:40. We try to have a large breakfast as DH definitely wants more than just cereal when he comes in. Also, this particular daughter has celiac disease and our youngest is a very picky eater so it can be complicated. Typically they cook hash browns, bacon/sausage, eggs and there is some type of gf muffin or bread available. DH helps them cook when he comes in after he cleans up. After breakfast, they clean the kitchen and then have free-time until 8:00 when they start school or other activities. I did talk to her psychiatrist about sleep last time we were there and he stated that routines (particularly for those with ADHD) were important and he wouldn't stop the morning routine. For all of those reasons, the wake up time really isn't flexible. However, I do think an afternoon nap is do-able and I should probably make that into a routine. She can nap from 1 - 3 in the afternoon. We do let her sleep in on the week-ends, but not past 9:00, otherwise she has trouble falling asleep that evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 It sounds like you have a good handle on things. You were mostly wondering if her sleepiness is normal and we've answered that. A consistent bedtime is key and naps are awesome. I would just reiterate to check out sleep cycles for the naps. There's nothing worse than taking a nap and trying to wake in the middle of a deep cycle. I take naps a lot and make sure to set an alarm for 35 minutes so I don't bump into the deep cycle, or to set the alarm for 1.5 hours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Can she shower in the evening so she can either get a little more sleep or at least not feel rushed/hog bathroom? While routines make sense, sleep is important to tackle the day. I would be upset if I was sleepy and expected to prepare breakfast as a teen. I would not even want to be in a co op if I had to get up that early but it sounds like she has early things throughout the week. I am glad she can work in a nap. Oh yes, she can absolutely shower at night. Her preference is to shower in the mornings. On Mondays, we don't have any trouble waking her up. She's usually too excited about going to the co-op as her best friend goes there as well. I'm hopeful the nap will help eliminate problems. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 It sounds like you have a good handle on things. You were mostly wondering if her sleepiness is normal and we've answered that. A consistent bedtime is key and naps are awesome. I would just reiterate to check out sleep cycles for the naps. There's nothing worse than taking a nap and trying to wake in the middle of a deep cycle. I take naps a lot and make sure to set an alarm for 35 minutes so I don't bump into the deep cycle, or to set the alarm for 1.5 hours. I listened. :) I was going to suggest a one hour nap but decided to extend it to 2 in case she needed the 1.5 hour one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yes, she is home-schooled. We have a co-op on Mondays and need to leave the house at 7:30. (Incidentally, on co-op days, she is up at 5:30 in order to shower before others are awake). On Wednesdays, she has a volunteer project that starts at 8:00 that she can't change up - she's scheduled into it and it's one that she initiated and designed teaching senior citizens how to use computers. On Thursdays, she has an online class that starts at 8:00. Our oldest is in public school and needs to leave the house by 7:10 (we drive her and meet her para professional at 7:20 at the school). I get up at 6:00 and bathe her and get her ready for the day (this is a lot more complicated than it sounds). We have both goats and chickens. DH gets up around 5:00 and finishes morning chores around 6:20. Our other two girls (including the one with the sleep problem) wake up at 6:00 and start breakfast, which is usually ready around 6:40. We try to have a large breakfast as DH definitely wants more than just cereal when he comes in. Also, this particular daughter has celiac disease and our youngest is a very picky eater so it can be complicated. Typically they cook hash browns, bacon/sausage, eggs and there is some type of gf muffin or bread available. DH helps them cook when he comes in after he cleans up. After breakfast, they clean the kitchen and then have free-time until 8:00 when they start school or other activities. I don't know why you need two and a half people to cook breakfast every day. What if sleepy girl got up early to make breakfast Mondays and Wednesdays, and slept in on Tuesdays and Thursdays when her younger sister made breakfast. Keep in mind that your youngest may be needing the extra sleep soon, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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