Cowspiracy

[fraidycat]

http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/methane-mythology.html

[Ausmumof3]

Hence, part of the reason my opinion that big-agra is not good. They are no better for the land/environment than grazing animals. Guaranteed.

 

I've actually seen it with my own eyes, as I am originally from a grain producing area and my family is still there. The land is far from healthy. Biodiversity is not welcome. Higher yields for more money is the name of the game. Accomplished via more and more chemicals to "fertilize" and kill weeds.

 

Just make sure you wear proper hazmat equipment while handling because it's deadly. /sarcasm

Yes, totally agree! The current way of doing things is bad for everyone farmers, animals, consumers.

 

We had an outing to a sustainable food farm last year and it was totally amazing how much was produced.

 

But there is a lot of manual labour.

[fraidycat]

Though a good chunk of the crops grown are used as feed for cattle. Reduce the number of cattle, and that will reduce the number of acres we use to grow corn for cattle feed.

 

No matter what I look up, it always seems to come back to beef being the root cause of the problems. Which makes me sad, because I really like beef. I had just found a recipe on pinterest for bacon-wrapped mozzarella-stuffed meatloaf. It looked amazing. :(

Beef is not the root cause. Greedy humans are.

 

Again, I'm all for doing away with CORN FED beef, or feedlot beef of any kind. In fact, I do not buy it. I avoid corn as much as possible. I'd Rather replant corn fields to native grasses and graze cattle, bison, and pasture chickens and do away with corn as a crop completely. Put in a garden instead if you really want it.

 

I try really hard to put my money where my mouth is, to the degree that I am able. An unlimited budget would be awesome.

 

I am a HUGE, soap box ranting, proponent of doing what is NATURAL. Cows do not graze on corn. Humans did not eat grains before 10,000ish years ago (especially in huge, bread for every meal quantities). In my home, we sit and sleep on the floor because it us more natural than "orthotic" furniture.

 

If you wanna get really mad at big-agra and government and capitalism and how they manipulate and wreck our food supply, watch:

 

King Corn

Food, Inc.

Fed Up

 

For a start.

[Aelwydd]

Yes, totally agree! The current way of doing things is bad for everyone farmers, animals, consumers.

 

We had an outing to a sustainable food farm last year and it was totally amazing how much was produced.

 

But there is a lot of manual labour.

Here is an interesting article on the subject that suggests that the answer is a reduction in eating meat, not totally eliminate it.

 

In fact, there has already been a significant reduction in overall meat production in the U.S, which is due to meat eaters cutting back--not due to an increase in vegetarianism or veganism.

 

 

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2015/06/less-meat-smil

[fraidycat]

Here is an interesting article on the subject that suggests that the answer is a reduction in eating meat, not totally eliminate it.

 

In fact, there has already been a significant reduction in overall meat production in the U.S, which is due to meat eaters cutting back--not due to an increase in vegetarianism or veganism.

 

 

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2015/06/less-meat-smil

Eating ethically, organically, naturally raised meat has that effect, thanks to paying the "true cost" vs. subsidised rates.

 

More stirfries, stews, and meat-topped salads - less slabs of steak, roast, and chops taking up 1/2 the plate.

[ScoutTN]

Joel Salatin's book, Folks, This Ain't Normal, also speaks well to these issues.

[Ausmumof3]

I know in Australia feedlot finishing is only about six weeks of the cows life. Also crops that are grown for human consumption but don't make the grade are downgraded to feed grade so I guess that's not wasteful. But certainly some pasture is grown purely for animal consumption.

 

I do prefer grass raised just because I much prefer animals to have whatever freedom is physically possible.

[fairfarmhand]

I haven't watched the video but the argument that crops are more efficient than grazing for food production annoys me. Most of the meat producing country in Aus is totally unsuitable for cropping that is why it is good for meat production. Secondly areas that are used for cropping require culls of native animals regularly to protect the crops so if you think less animals are killed by not eating meat you are naive.

 

What I do believe should change is the fact that people only want beef or chicken. Many other kinds of meat can be produced more sustainably. Also it would be great to see a change towards more small scale local production as it is far less stressful for animals etc.

Yes! This.

 

Multispecies grazing actually is a great way of utilizing land that may not make good cropland.

 

If we tried to raise crops on many of our fields, we'd just wash the topsoil away. The alternative is to us "no-till" which relies heavily on herbicides.  Also bad for the environment.

 

So we raise sheep and cattle and chickens. Not too many. Just enough to keep the land healthy.

 

I think the trend toward massive farms vs. Small producers is a huge part of the problem.

 

And yes, we will be learning to eat mutton/lamb when ours get to slaughter weight.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Joel Salatin's book, Folks, This Ain't Normal, also speaks well to these issues.

 

I was just going to mention this.

[Rosie_0801]

And yes, we will be learning to eat mutton/lamb when ours get to slaughter weight.

 

In what way is that a thing you must learn?  :confused1:

[fairfarmhand]

In what way is that a thing you must learn?  :confused1:

 

See, oddly, I've never had mutton or lamb. It's just not a thing in my area (Southeast US). You can't even find it in the typical grocery store. You have to drive into the city and find an "ethnic" grocery to buy it!

 

I don't know how best to cook it. I don't know ANY one (other than my friend from Hungary) who eats it. (She asked if she can buy a lamb from us when we have some for slaughter)

 

So yeah, for my family, it will be a big learning experience.

 

And it's one that I am excited about. :)

 

[Rosie_0801]

Lamb shanks baked in the oven in grape juice = delish.

 

You should also make it your business to get a copy of Dorinda Hafner's African cookbook from the library for the Cumin roast lamb recipe. 

 

And of course, the traditional (though clearly not at your place  :laugh: ) roast with mint sauce. Mint sauce is a happiness.

 

:)

[Aelwydd]

Call me a wuss, but I can't eat lamb. Can't even stand the thought.

[Ausmumof3]

Lamb is easier to cook than beef because it has a higher fat content and doesn't dry out easily. It is an awesome roast and great in curries. Lasagne made with lamb mince is way better.

 

It is fattier than beef though.

[Melissa in Australia]

Lamb is easier to cook than beef because it has a higher fat content and doesn't dry out easily. It is an awesome roast and great in curries. Lasagne made with lamb mince is way better.

 

It is fattier than beef though.

fattier than beef yes, but no where nearly as fatty as pork.

 my Canadian DH didn't eat lamb  in Canada because it is too fatty ??But their main diet was pork with vary rarely some beef. It has taken me over 20 years to convince him that pork is fattier than lamb, and even now I don't think I have completely convinced him from his childhood beliefs.

[LibraryLover]

Rabbit. Super cheap protein, easy to raise, perfect city animal. But hardly anyone wants to eat Thumper /bunnies. My mil used to make a delicious rabbit stew. I didn't know I was eating rabbit at first ; thought it was extra -good chicken. Dh won't eat rabbit. Because Bunnies. But it is an option if one can't get other proteins for whatever reason.

[MistyMountain]

Yes it is true. I was a vegetarian for nearly a decade because of it. I gave up meat only for environmental reasons. I now seriously cut back on dairy especially hard cheeses and eat poultry. I had too much of a hard time coming up with meals that did not take too long, everyone ate and the convenient vegan stuff was out of my budget. I feel a little guilty for eating meat again especially when the two vegans I know post yummy meals they make. I am ok with sustainable hunting and fish that are on the green list but I only tolerate fish. I don't really like it much.

[Rosie_0801]

Rabbit. Super cheap protein, easy to raise, perfect city animal. But hardly anyone wants to eat Thumper /bunnies. My mil used to make a delicious rabbit stew. I didn't know I was eating rabbit at first ; thought it was extra -good chicken. Dh won't eat rabbit. Because Bunnies. But it is an option if one can't get other proteins for whatever reason.

 

It's good with sauerkraut. I don't know why I'm suddenly feeling bad about having lost the recipe when I don't cook meat at home any more anyway.  :confused1: :laugh:

[nevergiveup]

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change/transcript?language=en

 

Maybe grazing livestock is not so evil.

See Alan Savory's TED talk if the link does not work.

[Mergath]

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change/transcript?language=en

 

Maybe grazing livestock is not so evil.

See Alan Savory's TED talk if the link does not work.

 

It sounds like there's a lot of debate in the scientific community about whether his ideas would actually work on a large scale or are merely wishful thinking. It's an interesting idea, though. 

[mommymilkies]

I wonder if the popularity of Paleo diets have boosted the numbers back up again over the last couple of years? Hmm. Off to google.

I would think so.  Some people think paleo=meat meat meat but really it's supposed to be vegetable heavy.  However, some of us just feel hangry the whole time, like below, so more meat has to be eaten and even then isn't enough.

 

Maybe. But, one can still eat paleo and reduce meat intake. Nuts, eggs, legumes, mussells, and fresh veggies, are good diet staples.

 

Honestly, eating tons of meat is not really economically viable for many middle class families nowadays.

Well, I don't know if I'd agree with you here for everyone.  Legumes are totally out for paleo folks, first of all.  I hate meat.  Really.  I like fish, but never can eat more than a nibble of steak because of texture and taste, mostly.  But when I went paleo for my health and allergies?  I could eat two steaks and be famished.  I'd eat my weight in nuts, eggs, vegetables, but never ever felt remotely close to full.  My entire existence was three years of hangry.  It was awful. Not to mention financially devastating. 

 

I'm kind of flexitarian.  Mostly pescetarian (1-2 times a week tops) but I eat meat on rare occasions in something because I have pretty nasty anemia and I can tell when I need more.  I don't think there's one right way for anyone.  But I do believe in Pollan's motto of "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."

[Meriwether]

My dad raises cattle. He could farm more of his ground, but he would have to till up native prairie hay to do it. Once it is gone, it can't be replaced. Plus, it is on a huge hill. Grazing is the best use for the land. Also, my mom is a good gardener. She doesn't get much out of the garden most years. The land is much better suited to grazing.

[fairfarmhand]

Call me a wuss, but I can't eat lamb. Can't even stand the thought.

 

You do know that by the time most  lambs are old enough to butcher they're not really the "cute little baby lamb" size.  Lamb is meat from an animal less than one year of age. We have a lamb right now who is just 4 months old. She's almost as big as her mother. They are bred as early as seven months to have their first babies at the age of one year. They grow pretty fast.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Does anyone think that part of the problem (this may have been mentioned before) is that lots of Americans think Meat=Beef/Pork/Chicken.

 

I mean, smaller ruminants like rabbit, goats, sheep are MUCH easier on the soil than cattle and don't have as many waste issues as pigs. Additionally, farms work better when they are smaller and different species are grazed together in a wise manner. Nature ABHORS a monoculture. Diversity is a wonderful thing for farms.

 

But if people broadened their meat palates perhaps these problems could be reduced.

 

So we've talked about Sheep and Rabbit. I mentioned Goat.

 

What other species could be brought into the equation?

 

 

(I'm not even going to bring up seafood right now.)

[mommymilkies]

Does anyone think that part of the problem (this may have been mentioned before) is that lots of Americans think Meat=Beef/Pork/Chicken.

 

I mean, smaller ruminants like rabbit, goats, sheep are MUCH easier on the soil than cattle and don't have as many waste issues as pigs. Additionally, farms work better when they are smaller and different species are grazed together in a wise manner. Nature ABHORS a monoculture. Diversity is a wonderful thing for farms.

 

But if people broadened their meat palates perhaps these problems could be reduced.

 

So we've talked about Sheep and Rabbit. I mentioned Goat.

 

What other species could be brought into the equation?

 

 

(I'm not even going to bring up seafood right now.)

There is a monoculture problem with plant life, as well.  Notably corn. 

[fairfarmhand]

There is a monoculture problem with plant life, as well.  Notably corn. 

 

Absolutely.

 

[LisaKinVA]

Deer, Elk, Bison...when we go back stateside, we do plan to add deer to our meat-stock.  Both for us, and the dog.

[Julie Smith]

Does anyone think that part of the problem (this may have been mentioned before) is that lots of Americans think Meat=Beef/Pork/Chicken.

 

I mean, smaller ruminants like rabbit, goats, sheep are MUCH easier on the soil than cattle and don't have as many waste issues as pigs. Additionally, farms work better when they are smaller and different species are grazed together in a wise manner. Nature ABHORS a monoculture. Diversity is a wonderful thing for farms.

 

But if people broadened their meat palates perhaps these problems could be reduced.

 

So we've talked about Sheep and Rabbit. I mentioned Goat.

 

What other species could be brought into the equation?

 

 

(I'm not even going to bring up seafood right now.)

 

Insects. 

 

Guinea pigs.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/03/12/174105739/from-pets-to-plates-why-more-people-are-eating-guinea-pigs

[Katy]

I didn't watch the video, but I think several books arguing for veganism said something similar back in the 90's.  I believed those statistics when I became a vegetarian.  I changed my mind when I realized my vegetarian diet was one of the worst decisions I've ever made regarding my health.  I'm convinced it caused my thyroid problems and worsened my wheat allergy.

 

Since then I haven't done the math, but I have somewhat dismissed it because the source is always some animal rights group that boils down to PETA.  No, I don't think animals should have equal rights to humans.  I never will.

 

I do think there are ethical issues with our food supply. We buy a fraction of a cow from a local butcher, who gets cattle from local ranches where it is grass fed on native prairie, most of which has never been tilled.  This is moderately more expensive than ground beef from Sam's, but it is less expensive than quality cuts from anywhere.

 

There are also legitimate arguments that grazing animals are a VITAL part of our ecosystem.  There's a practice called intensive grazing that has been used to restore ecosystems and climates in areas that were previously deemed ruined.  I highly suggest you look into that before you make blanket decisions.

 

I have several close friends that are vets and one of them doesn't eat beef unless she knows the farmer.  She doesn't feel many cows are treated fairly.  She uses home grown chickens, turkeys, and farmed bison for her family instead.

[Katy]

Here's a ted talk about desertification and the way grazing animals can fight it: 

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change?language=en

 

 

ETA:  & an article on same concept:  http://www.nofamass.org/articles/2014/05/how-cows-help-grow-their-own-food-grazing-and-soil-restoration

[Guest]

Lamb is easier to cook than beef because it has a higher fat content and doesn't dry out easily. It is an awesome roast and great in curries. Lasagne made with lamb mince is way better.

 

It is fattier than beef though.

I love a good lamb chop, but it smells SO gaggy raw! It is also quite expensive (where I live) compared to beef or pork. DH will grudgingly eat it, but I have mostly only made lamb when he is not home.

[Guest]

You do know that by the time most lambs are old enough to butcher they're not really the "cute little baby lamb" size. Lamb is meat from an animal less than one year of age. We have a lamb right now who is just 4 months old. She's almost as big as her mother. They are bred as early as seven months to have their first babies at the age of one year. They grow pretty fast.

Yeah, but I have similar feelings about rabbit. Look - they are little bunnies, man! They even look like a bunny when they are prepared whole. Just a little, hairless, headless bunny.

[Rosie_0801]

Camel can be found in the occasional supermarket here, where there is a large Middle Eastern community.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Camel! If you ever try it Rosie, you need to report back to us and and let us know how it was.

[amsunshine]

Insects. 

 

Guinea pigs.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/03/12/174105739/from-pets-to-plates-why-more-people-are-eating-guinea-pigs

 

 

Ewww!!

[Ausmumof3]

Feral goats here used to be culled now they are often trapped and sold to the Middle East. Sheep farmers make more money out of their wild goats than their own sheep. Of course there is the live export issue, but environmentally at least a resource that was previously wasted is now used. Feral camels are also culled in large numbers. Wild pigs are culled but some are now trapping worming and selling. Plus kangaroos are culled.

 

To me, saying meat is unaffordable makes no sense when so much of it is simply wasted. Obviously not all animals that are culled are suitable for human consumption but getting a process in place for it makes environmental sense to me.

 

So for meat options there's kangaroo, venison, goat, duck, lamb, turkey etc. Camel is being marketed here now too.

 

I also think it would make sense to work on other native foods here to be produced commercially but that's a separate topic.

[Laura Corin]

You mostly see cattle and sheep on hills here. The grass is lush and the animals are outside for most of the year. The flat land is used for crops. Not much feedlot production here - we are used to the taste and texture of meat that roams, and the climate favours grazing.

[Ausmumof3]

I love a good lamb chop, but it smells SO gaggy raw! It is also quite expensive (where I live) compared to beef or pork. DH will grudgingly eat it, but I have mostly only made lamb when he is not home.

Lamb is more expensive here now too - never used to be.

 

Smell doesn't bother me but I think familiarity is a big part of that. I get the smell thing with goat and occasionally venison.

[Rosie_0801]

Camel! If you ever try it Rosie, you need to report back to us and and let us know how it was.

 

It was meat flavoured. :lol:

 

You can curry pretty much anything, can't you?

 

I found it a lighter flavour than both beef and lamb. My brother said I was nuts and there was something wrong with my tastebuds. I think there is something wrong with his. We both agree it tastes better than crocodile. Don't ever buy crocodile sausages.

[Julie Smith]

Ewww!!

 

I admit I don't get it. Why are insects, and guinea pigs "Ewww" to some people, but not cows, or pigs. 

[fraidycat]

It was meat flavoured. :lol:

 

You can curry pretty much anything, can't you?

 

I found it a lighter flavour than both beef and lamb. My brother said I was nuts and there was something wrong with my tastebuds. I think there is something wrong with his. We both agree it tastes better than crocodile. Don't ever buy crocodile sausages.

Hmmm. What does crocodile taste like?

 

I had an alligator burger. It tasted more like chicken than I expected it to.

[fraidycat]

I admit I don't get it. Why are insects, and guinea pigs "Ewww" to some people, but not cows, or pigs.

Societal construct, cultural learning, and arbitrary lines?

 

I admit to being on the "eww spectrum" for some things, but it's certainly not due to rational and critical thought process - it's a kneejerk reaction.

[Guest]

I admit I don't get it. Why are insects, and guinea pigs "Ewww" to some people, but not cows, or pigs.

Cultural conditioning. I always think it is odd that we (cultural we) decided to domesticate and use these main animals for agricultural food production purposes, but rarely or never others. Deer, for instance, are so abundant and are used extensively as wild game but AFAIK, there are no farms raising venison. Why not? They would be so very easy to domesticate and they obviously breed readily. Why are there turkey farms, yet pheasant farms don't appear to have caught on?

 

That said, I'm not super excited about roasting grasshoppers.

[Melissa in Australia]

It was meat flavoured. :lol:

 

You can curry pretty much anything, can't you?

 

I found it a lighter flavour than both beef and lamb. My brother said I was nuts and there was something wrong with my tastebuds. I think there is something wrong with his. We both agree it tastes better than crocodile. Don't ever buy crocodile sausages.

 don't ever buy emu sausages :ohmy:

[Melissa in Australia]

Cultural conditioning. I always think it is odd that we (cultural we) decided to domesticate and use these main animals for agricultural food production purposes, but rarely or never others. Deer, for instance, are so abundant and are used extensively as wild game but AFAIK, there are no farms raising venison. Why not? They would be so very easy to domesticate and they obviously breed readily. Why are there turkey farms, yet pheasant farms don't appear to have caught on?

 

That said, I'm not super excited about roasting grasshoppers.

 

 there are pheasant farms.

 No way am I ever trying pheasant.it is very very dry meat.  they hang them  by the neck, with their guts still in for a few weeks to age the meat. :ack2:

[Julie Smith]

I know that there is a llama farm in Ontario.

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

Cultural conditioning. I always think it is odd that we (cultural we) decided to domesticate and use these main animals for agricultural food production purposes, but rarely or never others. Deer, for instance, are so abundant and are used extensively as wild game but AFAIK, there are no farms raising venison. Why not? They would be so very easy to domesticate and they obviously breed readily. Why are there turkey farms, yet pheasant farms don't appear to have caught on?

 

That said, I'm not super excited about roasting grasshoppers.

 

There are venison farms in my area. They have to have very high, expensive fences. Boy those animals can jump.

[ScoutTN]

Lamb is yummy! I cook it once a month or so. Ground is least expensive and makes delicous Greek burgers or shepherds pie or moussaka. We like chops or a nice roast too.

 

We tried goat steaks from a local farmer here last summer and they were very good! Meant to get some this summer, but Dh's medical situation hijacked our life for the last few months. I have had pit roasted goat too, done similarly to pit roasted hog/BBQ meat. That was cooked by Nigerian friends and was yummy.

 

Dh had guinea pig in Peru years ago. "Tastes like chicken."

[Ausmumof3]

There are a few venison farms here but yeah the fencing is huge. Also there are a lot in nz.

[Guest]

there are pheasant farms.

No way am I ever trying pheasant.it is very very dry meat. they hang them by the neck, with their guts still in for a few weeks to age the meat. :ack2:

So you're saying:

 

Pheasant

Is not

Pleasant

 

:D