Art--How to handle nudity and Artists like Van Gogh?

[ExcitedMama]

I am ordering books to go along with MP K Enrichment. I thought it would be fun to round out the selections with more books and information. The first artist is Klimpt, who I only knew from The Kiss, but when I was reading reviews for books there was a lot of criticism about the amount of nudity. Week 2 is Van Gogh and the reviews for the children's books mention that his cutting off his ear are mentioned and so is suicide.

 

How do you handle nudity in art? Just matter of factly? Maybe talking about models and learning how to accurately paint the human body?

 

For Van Gogh how much information about mental illness is appropriate? What would you say?

 

Am I overthinking this? I agonized over reading The Little Match Girl because I think it is so heartbreaking but DS really enjoyed it and only had positive things to say about the little girl going to be with her grandmother in heaven. Maybe this is another case of that? Thanks!!

[go_go_gadget]

How do you handle nudity in art? Just matter of factly? Maybe talking about models and learning how to accurately paint the human body?

 

Nudity is a complete non-issue in our family. I treat nude art exactly the same way I treat any other art, pointing out technical aspects like light and composition, etc. A painting/sculpture/whatever is a painting/sculpture/whatever. 

 

Re: Van Gogh, my handling would totally depend on the child in front of me. Mine were sad but fine, but some would be freaked. We're geeks and also watched the Doctor Who episode featuring Van Gogh, which is really quite well-done. It does have a monster in it, which is by turns a bit scary and then sad.

[maize]

This would depend on the child, some are very sensitive and easily disturbed, others are not. Most nudity in art doesn't bother me, but it does bother one of my children. I just don't think there can be a generalizable approach.

[prairiewindmomma]

We handle nudity matter of factly. 

 

Mental health issues, etc. we handle in an age appropriate way. If your oldest is really just 5, I'd probably gloss over that aspect...

[73349]

I would use a children's book about van Gogh--your library may have a few choices--that will address his melancholy in a way that is appropriate (since it influenced his career) and not too intense.

 

We've treated nudity very matter-of-factly; it makes perfect sense that sculptors and other artists would observe and try to master this interesting organic shape, just as they do others (trees, waves, etc.).

[KrissiK]

We handle it matter-of-factly, too. Of course, my 12  year old son tends to look a little too often at the big Art book, but I try not to make an issue out of that, either. I figure, he's 12 and I'd rather him satisfy his curiosity that way than on the Internet, if you know what I mean.

[regentrude]

Nudity is not an issue in our family. My children have grown up seeing the nude body portrayed in painting and sculpture. It is not an issue for kids unless the parent chooses to make it one.

 

For young children, I see no need to discuss Van Gogh's mental illness. For older children, mentioning that he was mentally ill should suffice. By then, they will have encountered the concept in other contexts.

[happypamama]

For the nudity, I don't make a big deal out of it. Yep, it's a naked body. We all have one. Move along. When I taught a co-op class on the Renaissance and we talked about art, I did show them the Sistine Chapel, but I did put a post-it note over the close-up picture of the Creation of Adam. I wouldn't have minded my own children seeing that, but I wasn't sure how other parents would feel about it, and I figured erring on the side of caution was wiser.

 

Re: suicide and mental illness -- I would gloss over those things for young children. When we studied Van Gogh, I think someone did mention that he cut off his ear, and I did confirm that and said something about him having some sickness that made him not think clearly. I am pretty sure we did not mention the suicide in front of the little ones, although I not sure whether my older two knew about that or not.

[HomeAgain]

We're very matter of fact.  LOL, have to be - we took the kids to go see David a few years back and it gets rather, uh, up close and personal.  Comfort is necessary. I'm just glad they weren't with us when we saw Hermaphrodite. That would have taken more explaining than I was ready for! :lol:  

 

Bodies are seen as things of beauty, and it's easier for me if we approach what is artistic about the body if the child asks.  Is it the symmetry?  The societal values embodied in the art?  The way the person is positioned?

 

Many artists have had mental issues, and accepting them as a part of how the person creates art is important.  Dwelling on them, and the what-ifs, I don't find nearly as important.

[HS Mom in NC]

Matter of factly and positively.  We say things like, "The human body is an amazing and beautiful thing that God made."

 

We mention mental health issues and have compassion for people with them.  We talk about ways people with mental health issues can be helped with modern medicine and how sad it is that people back then didn't really understand much about mental illness or have any treatment options for it.

[wendyroo]

We treat nudity very matter of factly.  Artists make lots of choices when creating their art, and most of those choices, including choosing to portray nudity, are made in order to influence their audience - send a message, tell a story, invoke an emotion, etc.  We discuss why we think the artist may have chosen to depict the nude person.

 

As for mental illness, well, we sort of have to face that one matter of factly as well.  My 6 year old is autistic and has severe anxiety, and while we have never used those labels with him, he knows that his brain works very differently than ours and that he takes medication to help his brain think more clearly.  We have ongoing discussions with all of the kids about everyone's brain working differently and about times when someone's brain gets stuck on unhealthy thoughts.  Ideally those individuals would get the help and medication they need in order to live healthy, happy lives, but sometimes, especially in the past, those resources weren't available.

 

Wendy

[SporkUK]

In a calm, manner of factly fashion for both.  At this current time, nudity would likely include having tell at least one to stop giggling and my youngest to stop pointing it out repeatedly and loudly, but in a general 'yes they're naked' and moving on with the lesson sort of way.

 

For mental illness, we discuss it more at length than nudity. Not only because both I and my partner have mental health conditions, but something like 1 in 4 people with deal with at least one in their lifetime and I want them to be properly informed as I would for any physical condition so I would feel uncomfortable glossing over it. In specific for Vincent Van Gogh, we could discuss how he openly spoke about the frustration it caused him, how no one knows what we would call his mental illness today but it included anxiety and depressive states but he also had clear periods that he enjoyed and treasured as do many people with such conditions, and how little support and stigma there often is and how that sometimes leads people to harm themselves. More generally what we already talk about is how the balance of chemicals in the brain and function of receptors and these malfunctioning causes problems, what we can do to care for our mental health, what support we can get and give, and, in a discussion with my eldest who kept smacking himself in the head, alternatives to harming themselves. 

 

[Guest]

LOL THe first time my then-five year old realized he was looking at private parts on a statue, his eyes got real big and he slowly said, "Well. Every family makes their own decisions about modesty." and shrugged.

[Garga]

My art loving friend had kids who were squigged out by the nudity in the art. She would post the weekly art they were studying on the fridge door and often would come into the kitchen to see post it notes over various body parts. It was pretty funny.

 

Most people treat it matter of factly. There is a difference between nudity in art and nudity in porn.

 

For Van Gogh, it depends on the child. Yours are 5 and under? You can skip over that if you think it will upset them. My kids are tenderhearted about that sort of thing, but at 10 and 13 we freely talk about it, though they feel sadness over it. And that Doctor Who episode leaves me ugly crying at the end.

[alisoncooks]

LOL THe first time my then-five year old realized he was looking at private parts on a statue, his eyes got real big and he slowly said, "Well. Every family makes their own decisions about modesty." and shrugged.

This is awesome.

[AuNaturel]

As an artist, I take my children to the Chicago Museum of Art all the way through her life. Nakedness everywhere! I teach that the human body is beautiful, we were not born with clothes, our creator did not give us clothes! Clothes are a part of human creation and society.

 

I believe that supporting the beauty of the human body also helps self esteem. You may want to research the evolution of what was considered "beauty" in women. In modern day, it's much different then it was even just 60 years ago. Further back and it was not "fat" but "luscious" and the more curves, even rolls, the better!

 

I don't see why Van Gogh's mental health has to come up. Most artists aren't exactly the perfect example of normal. If you ever rub elbows with the crowd, you'll see quite a lot to raise an eyebrow to. :-P

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Mimm]

LOL THe first time my then-five year old realized he was looking at private parts on a statue, his eyes got real big and he slowly said, "Well. Every family makes their own decisions about modesty." and shrugged.

 

I love this! :) Awesome kid.

[Guest]

 

For Van Gogh how much information about mental illness is appropriate? What would you say?

 

 

I told my 5yos the same thing my mother told me when I was their age:

 

"He was very sad. He was so sad that he cut off part of his ear. He looks like he's sorry he did it."

 

https://ka-perseus-images.s3.amazonaws.com/653f09fedc305ad96ff0f7272df19fa7624f3c7e.jpg

 

Also this song:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwE3VdZ_AHQ

 

is compassionate but not too TMI for a K'er even though it is more than a bit dated.

[SilverMoon]

I'd skip the gruesome details, and act like the nudity is no big thing.

 

 

Honestly my all time favorite treatment of nude art is from Sister Wendy. I love her commentary.

[AmyontheFarm]

My son thought they had to draw/paint the nude bodies before they painted clothes over top.  He wondered why the museum had all these paintings that weren't finished yet.  He wanted to see the art that was finished.

[Rosie_0801]

Matter of fact here too. No choice, really. Dd had a rather nakey sort of brother...

 

I took her to the art gallery and we were deciding whether or not to go to the Ancient Greek exhibition, since we'd been doing those chapters in SOTW.

 

"Do you want to see the naked Greek statues?"

"Might as well."
"You like that sort of thing, do you?"

"Sometimes."

 

Okay then. Being only 7, she was more interested in clothed goddess statues than the naked athletes. lol

[Mergath]

You know, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get anyone saying they draw clothes onto the nude paintings with a permanent marker.  There always used to be at least one...

[awisha.]

You know, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get anyone saying they draw clothes onto the nude paintings with a permanent marker. There always used to be at least one...

I like to use a big, fat, black permanent texta to draw clothing on the offending pictures.

 

I have also been known to glue the pages together, or rip them out, and, if the book is particularly disgusting, burn it before my darling childrens eyes are befouled by the horrendous naked pictures.

 

 

 

 

 

Satisfied?? :lol:

[Rosie_0801]

Satisfied?? :lol:

 

No. I think corrupting would be better than horrendous.

 

#fussy

[awisha.]

No. I think corrupting would be better than horrendous.

 

#fussy

If my choice of word offends you that much, you can always get a black texta and cross the word out on your screen.

 

#helpfulwednesdays

[flyingaway]

Well, for Mergath, I will admit to covering the very up close and personal painting of a female cr otch in a guidebook from the Louvre. It actually made me laugh, but I knew that if my prudish child saw it she would throw the whole book away.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

When I can get my kids to let me go potty and shower all by myself in peace, then I will start worrying about nudity in art.  Until then, we're pretty matter-of-fact...  :-)

 

As for bigger issues like a painter's life story, I hope to be able to just cover the information in a kid-friendly way, possibly skip over suicides for now, but I'd have to think about that.  It does offer the opportunity for dialogue on the issue, so, maybe it's a good thing to mention it and see how far the kids want to go with the discussion.

[ExcitedMama]

Thanks so much everyone! I feel more confident going forward now. I was surprised at the responses on the MP forum when I asked the same question I was pretty much told not to dig any deeper into the artists to avoid these issues. I'd rather use their recommended selections as an opportunity to learn more instead of avoid it.

 

As for Van Gogh I was surprised when I went to look into more about him on the Internet that he may have actually been murdered. I am always intrigued by murder mysteries so that's a fascinating alternative to what I had thought happened to him.

[ElizaG]

Thanks so much everyone! I feel more confident going forward now. I was surprised at the responses on the MP forum when I asked the same question I was pretty much told not to dig any deeper into the artists to avoid these issues.

I think most people on this board would agree that some famous works of art are inappropriate for some educational contexts.   (Same goes for some poems, some plays, etc.)  

 

And among these parents, there are some who consider nudity to be a factor.  They just don't tend to post in threads like this one, because they don't think that broad discussions of "modesty" are a good use of the Education boards, in a group with such diverse beliefs.  And also, perhaps, because they think that these are decisions that parents should be making on the basis of their own principles, rather than by polling a group of relative strangers.   

 

FWIW, though, in an old thread, I expressed the view that there's a difference between seeing an actual work of art -- say, "David" -- on a family trip, and looking at a 4" photograph of it in a book.   Something to consider.  Or not.   :001_smile: