rethinking boundaries with MIL

[teachermom2834]

I have a difficult MIL. Visits from her have always been stressful. Particularly, she is very critical. She is all around difficult but not outright mean. She will do the sort of thing where she wants to go out for dinner. My family with little kids might want to eat around 5-6:00. She would say she doesn't get hungry until 7:30 and refuse to go earlier. So, not terrible stuff but very difficult to work around for several days in a row. She generally complains that we don't have the right condiments/ didn't cook her meat properly etc. She has always done alot of pointing out every little thing someone might have done wrong. Just that background to say she is overbearing and annoying but not wretched or abusive.

 

In the early years of our marriage she would visit for 7-10 days and I would come undone. I am from a family culture that went by the general rule that fish and houseguests stink after 3 days. So, even if she was pleasant, that length of time would have been hard for me.

 

After trying to hint and suggest she take shorter visits we finally set a firm boundary of 4 days/4 nights. She would come Thursday early and leave Monday early. It took a few years to make this stick. We would have to be very firm everytime. After about 5 years she bitterly accepted

it and schedules her trip that way without discussion. We have been doing it this way for a long time now, maybe 10 years.

 

I am feeling guilty about this boundary now and reconsidering. She has not become any easier or more pleasant but I have matured some and she is older and lonely. It is a long drive (we moved a bit farther away) and she is just a kind of pitiful figure now. We can't visit her because she is a hoarder. The best solution would be for her to fly in for shorter visits but at this point neither of us could afford the airfare. The kids are older and that makes it easier in alot of ways.

 

I do think that softening on this boundary would put us back at the 7-10 day visit and lead to lots of uncomfortable negotiations on it. I hesitate to open that up again. Any experience resetting boundaries with in-laws. She hasn't changed but I am not the new bride/ young mom I once was.

[Lara in Colo]

I wouldn't--- you are feeling guilt you don't have to feel.  This could be very hard to undo. 

[kristi26]

I wouldn't change it. If you change it, you will be stuck with it and you may regret that. What about visiting her but staying in a hotel?

[Mimm]

If nothing has changed that would make these visits any more enjoyable for you, then I wouldn't bother changing anything. Four days and nights seems like a perfectly acceptable limit.

[PamJBA]

She's living with the consequences of her own behavior and choices. Why would you want to extend her trips when she's still so unpleasant? Your kids can't possibly enjoy the disruption and criticism any more than you do.

[teachermom2834]

I wouldn't change it. If you change it, you will be stuck with it and you may regret that. What about visiting her but staying in a hotel?

I think you are right. I will try to think through other ways to try to make things better. Money really tight here which makes putting six of us in a hotel tricky. Might be better in the long run to try harder to do that.

[teachermom2834]

She's living with the consequences of her own behavior and choices. Why would you want to extend her trips when she's still so unpleasant? Your kids can't possibly enjoy the disruption and criticism any more than you do.

Guilt! That is where I am coming from. It is consequences of her actions (decisions that led to her unable to afford a plane ticket, hoarding makes it so we can't visit and she can't sell her house to move closer)

 

I find the situation sad for her, I guess, even though she brought it on herself.

[Carol in Cal.]

Bless you for your compassion.

I wonder if there is a middle path?

Maybe pick a non-fraught holiday when staying one extra day would be particularly easy to justify, and seeing how that goes.  Then work up from there if you are comfortable.

 

I think that at this point everything might be easier--the kids don't have to eat right.on.time. as much if they are older, you are out from under the little kid mania thing, and who knows, maybe she has mellowed just a bit also. 

 

Just be ready that if the fight was bitter before, the offer of an adjustment could bring up those old feelings and she might say something snarky.  Brace yourself just a tad.

[Zebra]

You're feeling false guilt, IMHO.

 

The boundary you established is working.   Do not let your guilt control you, and lead you to make a change that doesn't need to be made.   Enjoy the 4 day visit, feel good that you are able to have a nice visit, and move on with your life.

 

It really doesn't matter if you were a young bride before and are now are older and more mature, or she is older and more pathetic.   The situation is allowed to be unbearable after 4 days, because it just is.   Part of healthy boundaries is knowing your limits and not feeling bad about them.  :thumbup1:

 

Not to mention the fact that you already got MIL used to this situation, and it's best to avoid stirring the pot in these situations.

 

[PamJBA]

Your responsibility is to your own children. She could choose to behave in a way that would make her visits welcome and enjoyable. Maybe she's old and set in her ways now, but it's been 15+ years. That is just an excuse. She's chosen to put her own desires above the needs of her hostess and young grandchildren for all these years. You have no reason to feel guilty. You are saint for inviting her into your home again and again with no change in her behavior.

[Tsuga]

I have a difficult MIL. Visits from her have always been stressful. Particularly, she is very critical. She is all around difficult but not outright mean. She will do the sort of thing where she wants to go out for dinner. My family with little kids might want to eat around 5-6:00. She would say she doesn't get hungry until 7:30 and refuse to go earlier. So, not terrible stuff but very difficult to work around for several days in a row. She generally complains that we don't have the right condiments/ didn't cook her meat properly etc. She has always done alot of pointing out every little thing someone might have done wrong. Just that background to say she is overbearing and annoying but not wretched or abusive.

 

In the early years of our marriage she would visit for 7-10 days and I would come undone. I am from a family culture that went by the general rule that fish and houseguests stink after 3 days. So, even if she was pleasant, that length of time would have been hard for me.

 

After trying to hint and suggest she take shorter visits we finally set a firm boundary of 4 days/4 nights. She would come Thursday early and leave Monday early. It took a few years to make this stick. We would have to be very firm everytime. After about 5 years she bitterly accepted

it and schedules her trip that way without discussion. We have been doing it this way for a long time now, maybe 10 years.

 

I am feeling guilty about this boundary now and reconsidering. She has not become any easier or more pleasant but I have matured some and she is older and lonely. It is a long drive (we moved a bit farther away) and she is just a kind of pitiful figure now. We can't visit her because she is a hoarder. The best solution would be for her to fly in for shorter visits but at this point neither of us could afford the airfare. The kids are older and that makes it easier in alot of ways.

 

I do think that softening on this boundary would put us back at the 7-10 day visit and lead to lots of uncomfortable negotiations on it. I hesitate to open that up again. Any experience resetting boundaries with in-laws. She hasn't changed but I am not the new bride/ young mom I once was.

 

Don't change the boundary. It's a perfectly reasonable expectation for a houseguest who comes more than one time per year. If it were only every other Christmas, I would agree, reconsider, but multiple visits? 4 days is a lot of a guest to ask. 

 

If she needs care, like, is not able to care for herself, that's an entirely different question and her frailty should be considered in that light, as elder care, not as a change in boundaries for guests.

[PeachyDoodle]

I'm in the minority here, but I'd at least consider it. People make mistakes. It sounds like she has been petty and selfish in the past, and she has brought at least some of the alienation from her family on herself, but unless she's truly abusive I would be inclined to try to look past that and give her another chance.

 

She's getting older, and who knows how many more of these opportunities you'll have? My MIL is a wingnut. There were some times early in our marriage when she was truly awful to me (and more times that she was even worse to dh). She can be very selfish. But she loves our children, and I want them to have a relationship with her. She has come a long way (and truthfully, so have I), so even though we have virtually nothing in common and will never be *friends*, we can spend time together and even enjoy it on occasion. My kids love her, and I am glad I didn't deprive them of a relationship with her (not that you are). In the end, we're all she has, and I can put up with the annoyances in order to be kind to her. Even if she doesn't deserve it.

 

I'd certainly draw the line if there were potential for real harm to my children (or to dh or myself) but that's not our case, and it doesn't sound like it's your case either.

 

I would probably not jump right back into the week-plus stays, but maybe invite her for an extra day. "We were thinking of doing X on the day you have to leave; would you like to stay an extra night and go with us?" If that goes well, think about extending it further.

[Seasider]

I think you are big hearted to consider it.

 

Only you have first hand experience with her behavior, and whether or not it is potentially damaging (as opposed to very difficult). It's true that your children are more flexible now that they are older. My concern would be how her criticism may now not just go over their heads, or may be directed at them.

 

If she were good to the kids, I would be more likely to seriously allow it. But I wouldn't make a new blanket allowance. Perhaps just say that hey, this next time our schedule is a bit freer, why don't you plan to stay 5 or 6 days.

[kroe1]

Yes, people must live the consequences of their choices. But, people must also live the consequences of their guilt. If MIL died tomorrow, how would you feel about the boundaries. That is what really matters.

[teachermom2834]

Thanks, everyone. I really feel like 4 days is reasonable because we spend every moment of that together and it really does seem like a long time (to me) to be either a host or guest when the relationship is not close. I know she is bitter about the boundary but I do not think a fifth day would be pleasant or add value to our time together.

 

I do feel like we should find a way to help her visit an extra time a year. Money is tight but I will think it over and talk to dh about possibly helping her with travel expenses for another trip. Problem is that then she will ask us to pay all her expenses every time. Sigh. It can be hard to help people sometimes.

[PamJBA]

My father is now deceased. I still don't regret my choice to set boundaries. I planned his funeral alone. Only 3 people came for him: his best friend (He showed only twice in the dozen of hospital stays), his financial advisor, and his 2nd wife. Everyone else came to support me.

 

Just because you are the only family and they are old does not automatically entitle a parent to anything. I realize my situation with an absent father is not the same as yours with a difficult mother-in-law. I just want to reassure you that you don't have to give up boundaries or face a lifetime of regrets. She can visit less often. Your husband can go to see her between trips. There are other options as travel becomes more difficult for her. She could relocate to an apartment in your city if she really needs help.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Probably the reason you can tolerate her visits at all, and can even contemplate extending the length of visits (even though driven by guilt, not affection), is because you set and kept a working boundary for 10 years.

 

That working boundary is the reason your kids and you have a relationship with her at all. Probably. You still have years to go, so you still need the boundary.

 

Also, it's likely you will face an uncomfortable season with her in the future, when she moves closer or genuinely needs more help -- in the meantime, you've hit "tolerable" so camp out at "tolerable" while you can.

[Okra]

Don't change that boundary.  It's okay to have her visit 4 days at a time.  You are a sweetie to consider it, but keep in mind that it is working fine the way it is, and changing it could cause much anguish.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Please, do yourself a favor and don't soften and don't change the arrangement.  Don't spend more money on this.  The boundaries are there because she made them necessary.  It doesn't sound like anything has changed.  In fact, her bitterness is a result of her own behavior, not that you were unreasonable.  There is no need to capitulate.  You can be compassionate, but do not offer your family up as sacrificial lambs on the altar of her own selfishness.  

[Lara in Colo]

Here is the test--- when she leaves are you wishing she could stay another day, or are you "whew, that's over"????

 

[teachermom2834]

Here is the test--- when she leaves are you wishing she could stay another day, or are you "whew, that's over"????

Ha...that is funny. I cannot imagine wishing she could stay for another day. Really. I feels awful to say but I can't imagine how it could be enjoyable. I am really just driven by guilt and pity. She comes tomorrow, though, so it is possible that in 24 hours my guilt and pity could be gone!

[Ausmumof3]

I guess you can either maintain the large boundary of a four day visit or you can have her for longer and reinforce many small boundaries like, sorry mil we eat at xyz time. If you want to eat later you can fetch it yourself. I think personally the larger boundary is probably easier to maintain.

[Chris in VA]

I almost said YES, change the boundary, but other posters made good points and so I'm on the Keep it the Same side.

I would definitely say try to see her more often where she is, staying in a hotel, even if it's just your husband and one or two of your kiddos. Or maybe you can go somewhere where your mil's town is on the way, so you could stop over for a night on the way there and one on the way back.

$ is a consideration, for sure, but is there any camping or something cheap out her way?

[Carol in Cal.]

I also wonder whether you could nicely confront her about the complaining.

 

Maybe in private, "If you have a problem with someone about how we do things, could you please talk to me about it in private instead of in front of the whole family?"  My guess is that that would cut waaaay back on the complaints, because most people are not as ready to complain one on one as in a group.

 

And then if she does complain to you after all, you can say, "Thanks for your input." and do whatever you wanted to do in the first place.  Or you can debate her on it.  It's case by case. 

 

Maybe it's a little passive aggressive, but if I were dealing with that, I would talk to my husband about it before she arrived, and we might just stage a skit.  Husband says, "I hate ketchup".  Wife says, "Oh honey, we agreed, no complaining about food at the table."  Husband says, "Right.  I'll just go get the mustard."  Wife says, "Thanks." 

 

Wife complains about three things in a row, then says, "Wow, I hate to complain.  It just makes everyone feel bad and it doesn't really accomplish anything.  Stopping now!"  Husband gives her a hug.

 

Those are hokey examples but they convey a certain flavor.

 

Plus if I could afford it I'd try to have some food that she likes.  Maybe your DH remembers what she used to cook at home.  Honestly, our diet is so different from that of either of our sets of parents that I'm sure we would drive them crazy if we cooked for them for any length of time.  Thankfully they are nicer about it, but still, people, especially older people, do get into a bit of a rut taste-wise, and sometimes it's not that hard to figure out how to make them a little happier.  Maybe she likes sauces, or maybe really plain food, or maybe casseroles.  Who knows?  Yes, it's totally rude of her to complain about this, but it's also gracious to make an effort in advance to make sure that she has some food that is familiar and pleasant to her.

[mathnerd]

If the relationship is not warm or comfortable to either of you, then stick with your boundaries. Because, extending boundaries will make it drawn out and painful and each of you might have to "put up" with each other.

You are very sweet to feel for her in her old age. I go through a lot of this guilt all the time - and then, I realize that the people I am dealing with have not mellowed with old age and I am so glad that I set up the boundaries. One option for making the visit more memorable is to leave her alone with your DH and kids and go out to run errands etc so that they can interact amongst themselves (this is what I do when MIL who I cannot get along with visits). And I also arrange memorable small events and trips to make the memories happier - like taking her out to see a Disney movie with the kids, inviting some of her local relatives over for dinner so that she can catch up with them (this also relieves me of the need to interact with her every day at dinner time), take her shopping (no need to talk too much in the mall!), encouraging her to go out to the local park with the kids, moving our spare TV to her bedroom where she can watch it alone etc.

 

Also, like PP said, get some of her favorite foods for her. e.g. if she is used to eating pasta for dinner, it is nice if your family can eat it for dinner too during her stay (provided there are no health conditions like allergy/GF needs), if she wants to go out for dinner, let her know that it would have to be early or you could suggest going for lunch instead and the next time you cook for her, just invite her to the kitchen and ask her for her recipe and follow her instructions and take away her ability to complain that you did not cook the dish the "correct way"!

 

I understand that $ can be a big issue that affects travel and visiting each other. Can you guys Skype or FaceTime with her often? 

 

[gardenmom5]

 

we finally set a firm boundary of 4 days/4 nights. We have been doing it this way for a long time now, maybe 10 years.

 

I am feeling guilty about this boundary now and reconsidering. She has not become any easier or more pleasant but I have matured some and she is older and lonely.   The best solution would be for her to fly in for shorter visits but at this point neither of us could afford the airfare. The kids are older and that makes it easier in alot of ways.

 

I do think that softening on this boundary would put us back at the 7-10 day visit   She hasn't changed but I am not the new bride/ young mom I once was.

 

 

she hasn't changed.  she isn't going to change-  unless you are willing to renegotiate on the length of visit for another five years, I wouldn't even go there.  if she can afford to fly, yes, that's easier on her.  unless it is an expense you can easily pick up - I wouldn't feel guilty you can't afford to make it easier for her to visit.  if she's lonely - maybe, don't hold your breath, she'll get the message she needs to :chillpill:

 

 

[gardenmom5]

My father is now deceased. I still don't regret my choice to set boundaries. I planned his funeral alone. Only 3 people came for him: his best friend (He showed only twice in the dozen of hospital stays), his financial advisor, and his 2nd wife. Everyone else came to support me.

 

Just because you are the only family and they are old does not automatically entitle a parent to anything. I realize my situation with an absent father is not the same as yours with a difficult mother-in-law. I just want to reassure you that you don't have to give up boundaries or face a lifetime of regrets. She can visit less often. Your husband can go to see her between trips. There are other options as travel becomes more difficult for her. She could relocate to an apartment in your city if she really needs help.

I've heard all the messages from people who say you will regret the boundaries, etc.  not once in 20+ YEARS since my grandmother died have I regretted the boundaries I imposed upon our relationship.

 

 

Please, do yourself a favor and don't soften and don't change the arrangement.  Don't spend more money on this.  The boundaries are there because she made them necessary.  It doesn't sound like anything has changed.  In fact, her bitterness is a result of her own behavior, not that you were unreasonable.  There is no need to capitulate.  You can be compassionate, but do not offer your family up as sacrificial lambs on the altar of her own selfishness.  

 

This.

and don't think her constant criticism isn't damaging to your children.

[teachermom2834]

My MIL did not work and does not understand that her pension plus SS and 50% property tax reduction leaves her with more disposable income than families with children. She isnt too happy that we dont take her out to eat, and she does not cook. My SILs who are childless solved the issue by bringing her takeout and she eats that plus frozen throughout the week. Bottom line is that I cant afford to be her sugar daddy. When my kids are grown and have jobs, then I will be able to be a lady that lunches occasionally.

 

Keep your boundaries. Give her the number for takeout if she doesnt want to share a meal with your family. Mine would rather have a hamburger and fries than a real meal, so we make that the alternative to the main meal when she is over.

This! She thinks dh makes lots of money. He is sole provider for family of six. We do get takeout just for her when she is here because we can't afford to take the whole family out. So we get takeout for her that she eats while the rest of us eat what we would normally. Typing that out reminds me that it is an odd situation.

 

Ugh. Thanks for the support.

[Mimm]

Ha...that is funny. I cannot imagine wishing she could stay for another day. Really. I feels awful to say but I can't imagine how it could be enjoyable. I am really just driven by guilt and pity. She comes tomorrow, though, so it is possible that in 24 hours my guilt and pity could be gone!

 

You have no reason to feel guilty at all. You allow her in your home for four day visits where she seems to make little effort to be a good guest. You have done nothing wrong in imposing a limit to her visits. You need to let yourself off the hook here.

 

I grew up with a mother who used guilt as the primary tool in her parenting toolbox. I still feel guilty for a lot of things I have no reason to feel guilty about. But I'm learning to put guilt away when I've done nothing wrong. And to realize when someone's problems were not caused by me and not fixable by me.

[Word Nerd]

Four days would be a long time for me to have guests, even if they weren't whiny, critical, and hard to please. Don't change the boundary.