Weigh in on which Shakespeare play?

[moonlight]

A Midsummer Night's Dream or Twelfth Night for a first play and why? This is for 11-13 year olds.

 

I know most Shakespeare plays are a bit "bawdy" but is either one of these better than the other in terms of appropriateness?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Butter]

A Midsummer Night's Dream.  My reason?  I like it better (and it was my very first Shakespeare play and started my great love of his plays and I later acted in it so I have fond memories of that one).

[Chrysalis Academy]

They are both totally awesome - my kids like both.  I like Twelfth Night a bit better, because it has  a strong woman, and a clever woman, as opposed to the women in Midsummer which are mostly bickering over men or being tricked into sleeping with donkeys.  There is also a movie version that it a bit less risque than the modern Midsummer movie version, which sounds like it might matter to you.

 

They are both great! I've always thought Midsummer was a great first Shakespeare, but I actually like the message of Twelfth Night better.

[Farrar]

I really don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

Definitely watch the movie or see a performance first.

[Coco_Clark]

Since you are dealing with boys, I'd honestly say Hamlet...because ghosts, murder, and sword fights.

 

But those are both great options. Midsummer is more of a classic first Shakespeare but I've always been more fond of Twelfth Night personally.

 

As for appropriateness....in Midsummer there's implied (especially in movies) s*x between Bottom and the fairy queen. In Twelfth Night there's drunkenness. I think that's all?

[Lori D.]

Actually, I would vote for Macbeth, esp. if the students are boys. :) Even more direct than Hamlet, and also swords, blood, ghosts, plus fate, witches, and the will to power. How could that NOT appeal?! ;)

 

If you're wanting a comedy, our boys *really* enjoyed the verbal sparring in Much Ado About Nothing. It is just striking me now how very middle/high school that is, with the put-downs and one-ups-manship, the punning, etc. They saw the Kenneth Branagh film version of Much Ado when they were in middle school and loved it. We also all loved the recent Joss Whedon version, too, although both DSs were of college age by that time.

 

We went to a high school production of Midsummer Night's Dream when DSs were in high school and they really enjoyed seeing some of their friends in the play. I think they enjoyed the play, too, but Macbeth and Much Ado were enjoyed more as Shakespeare plays. For Midsummer We went over all the characters and the complicated / interwoven plot lines before going so they didn't have to also try and keep all of that straight while simultaneously trying to figure out the language.

[RootAnn]

My girl is enjoying Macbeth (through HScollegebound's class that is almost over) as her first official Shakespeare study. Apparently, lots of kids in the class went through Hamlet first and there is a lot of stuff they are seeing that relates to Macbeth. I can see where boys would really like it. 

[lllll]

..

[Farrar]

Yeah, I think Macbeth makes a good first Shakespeare. Hamlet is too long. Macbeth is just bloody and fun. But there's nothing wrong with the Dream or Twelfth Night - or As You Like It as well. I also think The Tempest is a good first one.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ah y'all have boys!  Macbeth is probably Shannon's least favorite Shakespeare so far - I love it, but she didn't.  

 

We just finished Romeo and Juliet and are starting Much Ado About Nothing tommorrow. We have both versions of the movies Lori D mentioned. I'm so excited, I've never actually seen this one and only vaguely know the story.  We  :001_wub: Shakespeare around here!!

[TarynB]

To those of you who are recommending Macbeth (yes, I have a boy LOL), is there a movie version you'd suggest? I just looked on Amazon and there are at least six different versions available for streaming.

 

We recently watched Much Ado About Nothing and DS really liked it!

 

ETA - OP, sorry for the hijack! :tongue_smilie: Great thread!

[Lori D.]

To those of you who are recommending Macbeth (yes, I have a boy LOL), is there a movie version you'd suggest? 

 

I like Throne of Blood, a black & white, sub-titled samurai adaptation of Macbeth made in the 1950s by Japanese director Akira Kurosawa. It is the story of Macbeth, but not Shakespeare's dialog. :) Our tween/young teen aged DSs liked this one. The downside is that some people are unwilling/unable to "do" subtitles, or even black and white movies… And, of course, none of Shakespeare's words.

 

JMO, but for various reasons, most of the film versions are problematic for tweens/young teens -- see this recent thread: "Favorite film version of Macbeth?" For students, I'd probably go with either:

 

- 30 min. abridged adaptation from the Animated Shakespeare series? (At Awesome Stories website, with some background info. Or on Vimeo in three 10-minute sections: part 1, part 2, part 3.)

 

- 1983 BBC made for TV version (see if your library has the BBC/Time-Life/Ambrose Video Shakespeare play collection -- or watch in 5-minute increments on YouTube; search for: "the scottish play_clip1.avi"  (and then clip 2, clip 3, clip 4…)

[Farrar]

To those of you who are recommending Macbeth (yes, I have a boy LOL), is there a movie version you'd suggest? I just looked on Amazon and there are at least six different versions available for streaming.

 

We recently watched Much Ado About Nothing and DS really liked it!

 

ETA - OP, sorry for the hijack! :tongue_smilie: Great thread!

 

No, there really isn't a good one for kids. There's a PBS version set in a sort of WWI/II era with Patrick Stewart that's excellent but not for the younger set - it has some gruesome moments. And there are probably some good stage filmed ones, but there's not a good film version like with Much Ado. That's a reason not to start with it, honestly, unless it's being performed near someone.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yep, I agree - Macbeth is the one we didn't watch a full movie version of. Just selected scenes.  They are either too bloody, too creepy, or too - sparse? I'm thinking of the Ian McKellan/Judi Dench version.  It's probably one of the reasons Shannon didn't like it as much - we usually read a summary, then watch a movie, then read the play.  Skipping Step 2 was a bummer.

[swellmomma]

We are doing MUch ado this year as their shakespeare unit (have to study it each year in high school english here) they are 15 and 16.  Back when they were in ps in 1st and 2nd grade they had an artist in residence in their school and they did midsummer night's dream, they had multiple schoolchildren for each role, ds16 was puck (along with a dozen other little boys), dd15 was a fairy in white. FOr grade 11 we are doing 2, Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet, for grade 12 Macbeth and possibly Othello.  

I have never read/seen Twelfth night myself so no thoughts on that, though it looks like one I should check into.

[duckens]

Twelfth  Night.

[Deee]

Neither!  Twelfth Night is my absolute favourite, and I am a big Shakespeare buff, but its too early for your boys. Twelfth Night is full of delightful innuendo that will be largely wasted on early teens. It is a very, very funny play, the perfect comedy, both in a Shakespearian sense (i.e. it has a happy ending) and in the standard comedic sense (because mistaken identity and sexual innuendo are always funny in the hands of a clever author).  Midsummer is a bit convoluted - it has a lot of characters - and this makes it hard for newcomers to get.  Its my least favourite play - I find much of it inane (shocking I know, but I thought I should get both my biases out in the open).  I think one of the best first Shakespeare plays is the Merchant of Venice.  It's deep, easy to follow, has several themes that appeal to young teens (prejudice, the role of women, gambling), and can be very funny.  Its not particularly quirky which allows kids to get their heads around the language while concentrating on a good story.  And it has a wonderful villain.  I find Hamlet depressing - great for older teens in that angst-ridden semi-Goth phase.  Macbeth is tempting, but better around the year 9 mark.  Unless your kids like gruesome, in which case they may love it but miss the extraordinary focus on the madness that comes from ambition, greed and a lust for power.  so I'd wait on that, too.  The other great option for boys is Henry V.  Don't read it - read the historical context, watch it live or use the fabulous Kenneth Branagh version.  Then study the "band of brothers" speech and call it done.  Much Ado About Nothing is lovely, although my son found it a bit soppy for his tastes.  Taming of the Shrew is good, too.  Try the Elizabeth Taylor/ Richard Burton version.  Very funny.  it was the first Shakespeare my son watched, entirely by chance one wet Sunday afternoon.  Turn the sub-titles on when you watch it.

[Hwin]

My son really liked Taming of the Shrew, especially when we listened to it on CD. He listened to it multiple times per day when he was 7-ish.

[TarynB]

I like Throne of Blood, a black & white, sub-titled samurai adaptation of Macbeth made in the 1950s by Japanese director Akira Kurosawa. It is the story of Macbeth, but not Shakespeare's dialog. :) Our tween/young teen aged DSs liked this one. The downside is that some people are unwilling/unable to "do" subtitles, or even black and white movies… And, of course, none of Shakespeare's words.

 

JMO, but for various reasons, most of the film versions are problematic for tweens/young teens -- see this recent thread: "Favorite film version of Macbeth?" For students, I'd probably go with either:

 

- 30 min. abridged adaptation from the Animated Shakespeare series? (At Awesome Stories website, with some background info. Or on Vimeo in three 10-minute sections: part 1, part 2, part 3.)

 

- 1983 BBC made for TV version (see if your library has the BBC/Time-Life/Ambrose Video Shakespeare play collection -- or watch in 5-minute increments on YouTube; search for: "the scottish play_clip1.avi"  (and then clip 2, clip 3, clip 4…)

 

 

No, there really isn't a good one for kids. There's a PBS version set in a sort of WWI/II era with Patrick Stewart that's excellent but not for the younger set - it has some gruesome moments. And there are probably some good stage filmed ones, but there's not a good film version like with Much Ado. That's a reason not to start with it, honestly, unless it's being performed near someone.

 

 

Yep, I agree - Macbeth is the one we didn't watch a full movie version of. Just selected scenes.  They are either too bloody, too sexy, or too - sparse? I'm thinking of the Ian McKellan/Judi Dench version.  It's probably one of the reasons Shannon didn't like it as much - we usually read a summary, then watch a movie, then read the play.  Skipping Step 2 was a bummer.

 

Thank you all!   :)

[HeWillSoar]

We just had our first homeschool Shakespeare day.  We read an Usborne Shakespeare book to get some background information and a children's version of Twelfth Night.  We looked at a book that had the original play and then the translation into what we speak today so that the kids could see how the language has changed.  The only dud was the movie.  I ended up dismissing the boys early because  I wanted to make this a positive experience.  There is a play that I found on youtube that we will watch next time, or we might even go to a play.   The movie just didn't have that dramatic effect that a play would have had.  I think another play with more action would be a better choice for them next time.

[momto2Cs]

They are both totally awesome - my kids like both.  I like Twelfth Night a bit better, because it has one of Shakespeare's greatest female leads, a strong woman, as opposed to the women in Midsummer which are mostly bickering over men or being tricked into sleeping with donkeys.  There is also a movie version that it a bit less risque than the modern Midsummer movie version, which sounds like it might matter to you.

 

They are both great! I've always thought Midsummer was a great first Shakespeare, but I actually like the message of Twelfth Night better.

 

Did you know (you probably do) that Twelth Night is the play being performed by Shakespeare in the Cannery this year?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Did you know (you probably do) that Twelth Night is the play being performed by Shakespeare in the Cannery this year?

 

Yep, can't wait!  :hurray:

[Carol in Cal.]

Midsummer is harder to follow--too many substories.  I'd go with Twelfth Night, of your two choices.

 

I agree with others who suggested Macbeth, though.

I'd start with a picture book version to give them an overview.  

Then I would study "Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth, William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth".

THEN I would study Macbeth.

[Tanaqui]

Why not Titus Andronicus?

 

I jest, I jest, do NOT read Titus Andronicus with 11 year olds.

 

Out of your two options, my money's on Midsummer, mostly because we are actually approaching Midsummer and I flipped a coin. But Macbeth might be a better choice. Certainly the plot was easier for me to follow as a child. (Then again, the fact that I did Macbeth in high school and Midsummer in the fourth grade might account for that....)

[Miss Tick]

My dc have seen both and enjoyed both. We did Twelfth Night a week ago. We started with the great cartoon summary from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch's website. The kids read through the Coville illustrated version on their own, we read the Lamb version and used some of the famous quotes for studied copy work. The homeschool winds of fortune were blowing favorably, I found a 40-seat production being put on by graduate students from the local theater department (which I didn't even know existed), for that weekend. Score! No one else I tell seems to care, but I know I can count on you all.

[Carol in Cal.]

A few years back there was a version of Twelfth Night that was set in 1960's California.  It was awesome.  It totally worked.

[Coco_Clark]

Yeah, it's the lack of movie that made me say Hamlet over Macbeth. But being able to see it performed is a really important step for me, and there's very little chances at live theatre in my area (one or maaaybe two a year). Twelfth, Midsummer, Hamlet, Much Ado, and Taming of the Shrew all have excellent movie options.

 

But if seeing it isn't necessarily part of your study than Macbeth or The Tempest all the way!

[Lori D.]

A few years back there was a version of Twelfth Night that was set in 1960's California.  It was awesome.  It totally worked.

 

This is reminding me of the *fabulous* musical stage production adaptation of the story of Twelfth Night, set in 1920s Harlem, with the Duke character being Duke Ellington, and all the music was his music. Oh, how I wish, I wish, I WISH PBS' Great Performances would release onto DVD "Play On!" 

 

These are the only clips I can find:

Play On!: Rocks In My Bed

Play On!: I Didn't Know About You

[freeindeed]

Midsummer. It's my kids' favorite, so that's why I chose it.

[madteaparty]

DS saw Macbeth first but only because I wanted to see Ethan Hawke in it ;) Now each time I wear a leather jacket he calls me Lady Macbeth.

We are seeing Midsummer this summer and he is doing a workshop of Romeo and Juliet. Any movies/plays that are recommended on these two (prime/ Netflix)?

I think Farrar recommended the illustrated (spelling? ) versions as an entry point and I love those.

[Lori D.]

A Midsummer Night's Dream or Twelfth Night for a first play and why? This is for 11-13 year olds.

 

I know most Shakespeare plays are a bit "bawdy" but is either one of these better than the other in terms of appropriateness?

 

Oops! Sorry O.P. -- I think with the exception of Chrysalis Academy in post #3, none of us addressed your original question, which was asking for a comparison of the "bawdy factor" in Midsummer and Twelfth Night. [embarrassed]  :blushing:

 

My understanding is that of all of Shakespeare's comedies, these two plays have the least amount of bawdiness, and that what there is is mostly double entendre that is going to go right over the head of tweens/teens. I think either will be equally okay as far as appropriateness for your tween audience.

 

Enjoy! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[SparrowsNest]

 The other great option for boys is Henry V.  Don't read it - read the historical context, watch it live or use the fabulous Kenneth Branagh version.  Then study the "band of brothers" speech and call it done.

 

 

I just finished Henry V with my 13, 10, and 7 year olds.  As suggested, we memorized the St. Crispin's Day Speech.  We worked through it a scene a day, sometimes watching the scene on youtube and sometimes reading together.   Surprisingly, my children prefer Laurence Olivier to Kenneth Branagh, while one youtube Henry they always called "The Yeller," and this was definitely not a compliment!  Such critics!  Overall a very positive experience.

[swellmomma]

Hijacking for a minute.

Coriolanus.  ANyone study it? I had never heard of it before but the troupe that does shakespeare in the park in the summer is doing As you like it and Coriolanus.  So thinking that instead of much ado (or in addition to) we would do those 2 for the remainder of this school year and then go see them live in July.  If you have studied this one before, what ages would you think? teens and up or do you think my 11 year old would be okay with it?

[happypamama]

DD and I are working our way through Twelfth Night. She'd read one of the children's adaptations, and Coville has a version that we hadn't read before, so we went with that. We are reading one of the versions that had the modern translation below the Shakespeare, and that has helped a lot. Most of the bawdy humor goes over her head, but she gets the plot humor. We opted not for Midsummer because we'd read the Coville version a different year. The kids did like the children's versions of Comedy of Errors and The Winter's Tale, though.

 

I thought maybe Hamlet for next year, but I haven't decided yet.

 

I need a decent movie version of Twelfth Night for her.

[Chrysalis Academy]

DD and I are working our way through Twelfth Night. She'd read one of the children's adaptations, and Coville has a version that we hadn't read before, so we went with that. We are reading one of the versions that had the modern translation below the Shakespeare, and that has helped a lot. Most of the bawdy humor goes over her head, but she gets the plot humor. We opted not for Midsummer because we'd read the Coville version a different year. The kids did like the children's versions of Comedy of Errors and The Winter's Tale, though.

 

I thought maybe Hamlet for next year, but I haven't decided yet.

 

I need a decent movie version of Twelfth Night for her.

 

We watched the Trevor Nunn version last year. We thought it was great!  Great cast, very cool setting. Highly recommended.

[moonlight]

Thank you! I did notice that the thread got derailed a bit, but it's bound to happen eventually! :-)

 

This is part of a book club, so it has already been decided to do a comedy. We are just deciding between the two I mentioned in my first post!

 

On our own, I've decided that the next one we will do will be Macbeth. All these extra resources that people have mentioned have been very helpful. Thanks.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Why aren't we talking about As You Like It?  It is one of our favorites! In fact I just realized that I was getting it mixed up with Twelfth Night in my first post.  There is a great film version, directed by Branaugh, sort of oddly set in a combo of medieval Japan plus the Forest of Arden.  And Rosalind!! Besides Portia, she's one of my favorite Shakespearean women.

 

ETA: Yep, further derailing - but I'm really enjoying this thread! It's always fun to hear which versions and which plays other people enjoy.

[momto2Cs]

Hijacking for a minute.

 

Coriolanus.  ANyone study it? I had never heard of it before but the troupe that does shakespeare in the park in the summer is doing As you like it and Coriolanus.  So thinking that instead of much ado (or in addition to) we would do those 2 for the remainder of this school year and then go see them live in July.  If you have studied this one before, what ages would you think? teens and up or do you think my 11 year old would be okay with it?

 

I studied Coriolanus in a college Shakespeare course. It is pretty dense, very political. Here's the SparkNotes summary:

 

In ancient Rome, in the aftermath of a famine, the common people, or plebeians, demand the right to set their own price for the city's grain supply. In response to their protests, the ruling aristocracy, or patricians, grant the plebeians five representatives, or tribunes--a decision that provokes the ire of the proud patrician soldier Caius Martius, who has nothing but contempt for the lower classes. At this time, war breaks out with a neighboring Italian tribe, the Volscians, who are led by Martius' great rival, Tullus Aufidius. In the campaign that follows, the Volscians are defeated, and the Rome takes the Italian city of Corioles, thanks to the heroism of Martius. In recognition of his great deeds, he is granted the name Coriolanus.

 

Upon his return to Rome, Coriolanus is given a hero's welcome, and the Senate offers to make him consul. In order to gain this office, however, he must go out and plead for the votes of the plebeians, a task that he undertakes reluctantly. At first, the common people agree to give him their votes, but they later reverse their decision at the prodding of two clever tribunes, Brutus and Sicinius, who consider Coriolanus an enemy of the people. This drives the proud Coriolanus into a fury, and he speaks out intemperately against the very idea of popular rule; Brutus and Sicinius, seizing on his words, declare him a traitor to the Roman state and drive him into exile.

 

Desiring revenge against Rome, Coriolanus goes to his Volscian enemy, Aufidius, in the city of Antium, and makes peace with him. Aufidius is planning a new campaign against the Romans, and he welcomes Coriolanus's assistance, although he soon feels himself to be falling into his new ally's shadow. Their army proceeds to march on Rome, throwing the city into a panic--Rome's armies are helpless to stop the advance, and soon Aufidius and Coriolanus are encamped outside the city walls. Two of his oldest friends come pleading for mercy, but Coriolanus refuses to hear him. However, when his mother, Volumnia, to whom he is devoted, begs him to make peace, he relents, and the Romans hail Volumnia the savior of the city. Meanwhile, Coriolanus and the Volscians return to Antium, where the residents hail Coriolanus as a hero. Aufidius, feeling slighted, declares that Coriolanus's failure to take Rome amounts to treachery; in the ensuing argument, some of Aufidius' men assassinate Coriolanus.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know if you have access to the National Theatre live broadcasts, which show in movie theatres, but they are doing Hamlet this Fall.  It might be worth going in that direction just to make it a homeschooling expense.  

[royspeed]

I'm a homeschooling dad, and I teach Shakespeare to homeschoolers — RootAnn above mentioned that her daughter is currently completing my course on Macbeth.

 

I just wanted to say two things:

• First, how great it is to see so many homeschooling moms weighing in on this discussion. I'm blown away by how many are so well informed about Shakespeare, with such clear tastes and preferences.
• Second, I want to endorse the initial suggestion of "moonlight," who launched this discussion by proposing a choice (for 11-13 year olds) of doing a comedy like Midsummer or Twelfth Night — great place to start. Both are funny, charming, and fairly accessible.

 

Much Ado, on the other hand — as a number of moms have already mentioned — has the advantage of good movie versions to serve as companions to reading the play. (I myself am partial to the Branagh movie.)

 

Only thing I would urge is this: It's great if, on their first meeting with Shakespeare, kids can discover that —

• The language IS penetrable, and with just a little help, it is possible to understand virtually every word of his 400-year-old language.
• Shakespeare can be wickedly funny, knock-your-socks-off clever, and heartbreakingly beautiful.

 

Last year I posted a blog that contains a lot of information you'll find useful for introducing youngsters to Shakespeare. You'll find it here:

http://hscollegebound.com/Newsletter-031814.htm

 

Happy homeschooling.

 

[Lori D.]

I'm a homeschooling dad, and I teach Shakespeare to homeschoolers ...

 

...Last year I posted a blog that contains a lot of information you'll find useful for introducing youngsters to Shakespeare...

http://hscollegebound.com/Newsletter-031814.htm

 

Welcome! And, thanks for the link to the Shakespeare resources. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.