PSA: Texas has the answer to what ails your child

[Aelwydd]

Look, our teachers not only pack heat, our state puts truant students in jail.

 

Keep in mind, any excessive absenteeism can get labeled as truancy. Such as when my ds was on the line as a second grader for 9 absences in a semester, due to his criminal behavior of contracting viruses and suffering asthma attacks.

 

I kid you not.

 

http://www.texasmonthly.com/daily-post/texass-problem-truancy-getting-some-well-deserved-attention

[Corraleno]

OMG, that's insane. Over 1000 teens sent to adult jails for missing school — thereby missing even more school and sometimes getting expelled as a result of the jail sentence??? It boggles the mind that there is even ONE adult in Texas who thinks this makes sense, let alone an entire system that enforces it. 

 

I hope the current bill passes. I just wish there were some way to undo the damage to the children who were sent to jail for this.  :sad:

[hornblower]

What? what?

Unreal.

[*Lulu*]

I'd like to say I'm gobsmacked.

 

I'd like to, but I've lived too close to Texas for too much of my life.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I always have a little chuckle when people want to flee to Texas for the "freedom." 

[JumpyTheFrog]

Whoa. What do they smoke down there?

[happi duck]

This is unusual for me...

WTF?!?!!!

[Aelwydd]

Another point in favor of hs'ing!

[redsquirrel]

Cause you know, nothing does a teenager good like some time in an adult jail.  They learn so much and it really helps get them ready to function in the world.

[luuknam]

Cause you know, nothing does a teenager good like some time in an adult jail.  They learn so much and it really helps get them ready to function in the world.

 

There's a reason they call it "school".

[City Mouse]

While I agree that Texas is a bit over the top, I live in a state that is exactly the opposite. Here there is absolutely no consequences for truancy except not graduating, and with only a 65% graduation rate as a state that is a frequent occurrence. I read a news paper article about a small town in our state that was "cracking down" on truancy. They were the first school distric in the state to charge the parents with truancy, but it is only a petty misdemeanor here, so the fine was $25. A second occurrence would result in a fine of $50.

[Audrey]

No.  That sounds about right for Texan logic.

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

;)

[Shellydon]

Not a fan, but not sure what else to do when kids are skipping school repeatedly. 

[LucyStoner]

Say what?!

[SunshineMom]

State Compulsory School Attendance Laws

 

Here's a list of each U.S. state's minimum compulsory school age and attendance laws for 2013. 

State Compulsory ages Compulsory attendance, days Compulsory attendance, hours

 

Alabama 6–17 180 n.a.

Alaska 7–16 170 grades K–3: 740 hours; grades 4–12: 900 hours

Arizona 6–16¹ 180 grade K: 356 hours; grades 1–3: 712 hours; grades 4–6: 890 hours; grades 7–8: 1,000 hours; grades 9–12: 720 hours

Arkansas 5–17 178 n.a.

California 6–18 175 grade K: 600 hours; grades 1–3: 840 hours; grades 4–8: 900 hours; grades 9–12: 1,080 hours

Colorado 6–17 160 grade K (half-day): 435 hours; grades K (full-day): 870 hours; grades 1–5: 968 hours; grades 6–12: 1,056 hours Connecticut 5–18 180 grade K (half-day): 450 hours; grades K (full-day): 900 hours; grades 1–12: 900 hours

Delaware 5–16 n.a. grade K: 1,060 hours; grades 1–11: 1,060 hours; grade 12: 1,032

District of Columbia 5–18 180 n.a. Florida 6–16 180 grades K–3: 720 hours; grades 4–12 : 900 hours
For schools on double-session or approved experimental calendar: grades K–3: 630 hours; grade 4–12: 810 hours

Georgia 6–16 180 grades K–3: 810 hours; grades 4–5: 900 hours; grades 6–12: 990 hours

Hawaii 6–18 180 grades K–6: 915 hours; grades 7–12: 990 hours

Idaho 7–16 n.a. grade K: 450 hours; grades 1–3: 810 hours; grades 4–8: 900 hours; grades 9–12: 990 hours

Illinois 7–17 176 n.a.

Indiana 7–16 180 n.a.

Iowa 6–16 180 n.a.

Kansas 7–18 grades K–11: 186 grade 12: 181 days grade K: 465 hours; grades 1–11: 1116 hours; grade 12: 1,086 hours

Kentucky 6–16 175 1,062 hours Louisiana 7–18 177 1,062 hours Maine 7–17 175 n.a. Maryland 5–16 180 1,080 hours Massachusetts 6–16 180 grade K: 425 hours; grades 1–5: 900 hours; grade 6–12: 990 hours

Michigan 6–16 170 1,098 hours

Minnesota 7–16 n.a. grade K: 425 hours; grades 1–6: 935 hours; grade 7–12: 1,020 hours

Mississippi 6–17 180 n.a.

Missouri 7–16 5-day week: 1744-day week: 142 1,044 hours

Montana 7–16 n.a. grade K (half-day): 360 hours; grades K–3: 720 hours; grades 4–12: 1,080 hours 

Nebraska 6–18 n.a. grade K: 400 hours; grades 1–8: 1,032 hours; grade 9–12: 1,080 hours

Nevada 7–18 189 n.a.

New Hampshire 6–18 180 grade K: 450 hours; grades 1–5: 945 hours; grade 6–12: 990 hours

New Jersey 6–16 180 n.a. New Mexico 5–18 180 grade K (half-day): 450 hours; grades K (full-day): 990 hours; grades 1–6: 990 hours; grades 7–12: 1,080 hours

New York 6–16 190 n.a.

North Carolina 7–16 185 1,025 hours

North Dakota 7–16 175 grades K–8: 951.5 hours; grade 9–12: 1,038 hours

Ohio 6–18 182 910 hours

Oklahoma 5–18 180 grades 1–6: 900 hours; grade 7–12: 1,080 hours

Oregon 7–18 n.a. grade K: 405 hours; grades 1–3: 810 hours; grades 4–8: 900 hours; grades 9–12: 990 hours

Pennsylvania 8–17 180 grade K: 450 hours; grades 1–8: 900 hours; grades 9–12: 990 hours

Rhode Island 6–16² 180 n.a.

South Carolina 5–17 180 n.a.

South Dakota 6–18³ n.a. grade K: 437.5 hours; grades 1–3 875 hours; grades 4–12: 962.5 hours

Tennessee 6–17 180 n.a.

Texas 6–18 180 n.a.

Utah 6–18 180 grade K: 450 hours; grades 1: 810 hours; grades 2–12: 990 hours

Vermont 6–16¹ 175 n.a.

Virginia 5–18 n.a. 1,080 hours

Washington 8–18 180 grade K: 450 hours; grades 1–6: 1,000 hours; grades 7–12: 1,080 hours

West Virginia 6–17 180 n.a.

Wisconsin 6–18 180 grade K: 437 hours; grades 1–6: 1,050 hours; grades 7–12: 1,137 hours

Wyoming 7–16 175 grade K: 450 hours; grades 1–5: 900 hours; grades 6–12: 1,050 hours

1. Ages 6–16 or 10th grade completion.

2. Age 16 if a student has an alternative learning plan for obtaining a high school diploma or its equivalent

3. Age 16 if a child enrolls in a general education development test preparation program that is school based or for which a school contracts, and the child successfully completes the test or reaches the age of 18 years.

Source: Education Commission of the States (ECS), 2013.

Information Please® Database, © 2008 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.

Read more:  State Compulsory School Attendance Laws http://www.infoplease.com/us/states/compulsory-school-attendance-laws.html#ixzz3YNVDa2P2

[LucyStoner]

Not a fan, but not sure what else to do when kids are skipping school repeatedly.

Really, you can think of nothing else to do besides lock them up, thereby causing them to miss more school?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I am not sure what to do to resolve chronic truancy.  I imagine the reasons vary greatly, meaning that a variety of solutions are likely needed.

 

I do know that throwing kids in jail won't resolve the problems.

[redsquirrel]

I think that localities and individual schools are prob best suited to deal with the issue of truancy, b/c it prob varies from kid to kid. Some don't go to school because they don't have anyone at home telling them to go. Some don't go because they don't have clean clothes, some don't go because they were up all night dealing with a crazy home life, some are homeless and getting to school is difficult. And yes, some just plain old don't want to go and no one makes them or feel like they can make them

 

I don't really see how jail helps in any of those situations.

[redsquirrel]

There's a reason they call it "school".

 

I'm sorry, how is school the same as an adult prison?

[*Lulu*]

And since the education level/probability of prison time correlation is strong it has the appearance of trying to secure prison populations for another generation.

 

Not a big conspiracy person, (I believe incompetence is much more probable than plots), but this one makes me long for a nice long game of follow-the-money.

[luuknam]

I'm sorry, how is school the same as an adult prison?

 

No, I meant it like slang for prison. Similar to, say, "con college".

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The "what else to do" for repeat truants is to recognize the natural consequences built into opting out of a high school diploma. That's punishment enough for children who usually need something other than punishment for this, anyway. No need to bring back debtor's prisons starting with minors.

 

Some of them need more support and help to get through school, due to real life issues that make it hard to even get there some days. Others need a better education offered at the school -- a more obvious cause-and-effect reason to show up every day without feeling like they're wasting their time -- some of the vocational high schools are seeing progress in this area.

 

 

[SunshineMom]

Wouldn't the truancy related fines cited in the opening story be the responsibility of the parent since the child is considered a minor and mandated to attend until he/she is 18yrs of age?  Moving truancy cases of minors from the juvenile justice system to the adult system is horrific.

[Audrey]

:rant:

I think the important questions are getting overlooked here.

 

Do the student prisoners get free breakfast?  All of them? Is it a hot breakfast?

 

:rant:

[kiwik]

Here the parents are prosecuted not the kids. Though in many cases with teenagers the parents can't do much about it.

[Butter]

In our district (in Texas) the parents are prosecuted if the kids are younger and it's not them choosing to skip (generally by fines... we had to sign a thing saying if our kids had x number of unexcused absences we'd pay a fine or if they were absent 5 days in a row without a doctor's note we'd pay a fine - a LOT of people take their kids out of school and go to Disney right in the middle of the school year because they want to avoid lines - the fines are intended to reduce that... of course if your kids are doing well in class and taking them out is not going to be a problem, generally they look the other way, especially if it is a one time thing and not several times a year - yes there are people that go on weeklong vacations several times a year here and take their kids out of school for those trips).  If it's the kid choosing to skip, they get sent to Saturday School.  Basically, they make up the time and work they skipped on Saturdays.  If they don't complete Saturday School, they fail classes.  There is also the alternative diploma school that they can transfer to.  They don't send them to jail.  It is very much up to the ISDs (there's a reason Texas calls them INDEPENDENT school districts) how they deal with truancy.

[Aelwydd]

In our district (in Texas) the parents are prosecuted if the kids are younger and it's not them choosing to skip (generally by fines... we had to sign a thing saying if our kids had x number of unexcused absences we'd pay a fine or if they were absent 5 days in a row without a doctor's note we'd pay a fine - a LOT of people take their kids out of school and go to Disney right in the middle of the school year because they want to avoid lines - the fines are intended to reduce that... of course if your kids are doing well in class and taking them out is not going to be a problem, generally they look the other way, especially if it is a one time thing and not several times a year - yes there are people that go on weeklong vacations several times a year here and take their kids out of school for those trips).  If it's the kid choosing to skip, they get sent to Saturday School.  Basically, they make up the time and work they skipped on Saturdays.  If they don't complete Saturday School, they fail classes.  There is also the alternative diploma school that they can transfer to.  They don't send them to jail.  It is very much up to the ISDs (there's a reason Texas calls them INDEPENDENT school districts) how they deal with truancy.

 

 

Yeah, no.  In our case, ds had doctors' notes for 8 out of 9 absences (which, BTW, meant $250 in copays).  If we didn't have those notes, we were told a truancy officer would likely be dispatched to our house. 

 

We pulled ds out that year because we felt it was fundamentally unfair (and asinine) to make him repeat the semester over summer school when a, his absences were not within his or our control, and, b, he made all As and one B for the semester.  So, they would have him repeating material he had already mastered.

 

I grew up in VA and NC, and dh is from PA.  None of those states employs the punitive measures this backwards state does. If you missed days, a parent's note was sufficient.  My parents even took me out on a Friday and Monday (gasp), when I was a sophomore in high school, for an extended weekend trip to Florida.  Somehow, I was able to make up work and the absences barely registered as a blip on that year. 

 

BTW, since I've moved to Texas, I have actually met parents who have been jailed for their children's absences (two moms).  In both cases, the absences were for frequent illnesses, but the moms did not take take their children in for doctors' notes for every stupid bug their kids got.

 

That practice is indefensible, IMO.  Especially when you consider that Texas' actual graduation rate is perhaps 58% to 65%.  This is based off of several articles I've read over the years that talk about how schools here mask the drop out rates by claiming these kids are going to "private schools" (which are actually diploma mills," or that kids are going to school in Mexico (for Hispanic kids), or that kids are being "homeschooled," (because the extreme opposite of ps'ing here is NO oversight at all).

 

I guess they should add "serving jail time" to that list.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm sorry, how is school the same as an adult prison?

 

bad food, forced to be there, not allowed much freedom, can't go outside and play

 

To name a few.  LOL

 

(I'm mostly kidding, but I could find some examples.)

[Aelwydd]

bad food, forced to be there, not allowed much freedom, can't go outside and play

 

To name a few.  LOL

 

(I'm mostly kidding, but I could find some examples.)

 

Fundamentally undemocratic institutions - students have few rights, and little say regarding school policies.

 

Armed police (and teachers) on the premises.

 

Metal detectors.

 

Parents must check in to have access to their kids.

 

Some ISDs in Texas are assigning RFID tags to students to keep tabs on their locations.

 

Large industrial, concrete buildings.

[JoJosMom]

FYI, Texas is late to the party. Truancy is a big money in California and has been for years.  (I'm not a big fan, but in defense of the policy, jailing students/parents is the last resort at the end of a loooooooong road. For the student population "served," oftentimes the only consistent education received is while in custody. The motivation, however, is bucks for butts in seats.)

[SunshineMom]

Wow, so if you don't have medical insurance for your child to see a doctor, then parents could get fined or sent to jail for truancy because the child's absence wasn't excused by a medical professional.  The parents have no authority with the school and yes, this practice targets those in poverty.

[luuknam]

Wow, so if you don't have medical insurance for your child to see a doctor, then parents could get fined or sent to jail for truancy because the child's absence wasn't excused by a medical professional.  The parents have no authority with the school and yes, this practice targets those in poverty.

 

You don't *need* medical insurance to see a doctor, fwiw. The GP we saw in Texas cost $25 per visit and did not take insurance. Guess what... now that we live in NY and have insurance, our copay is $25 per sick visit. Gah!

 

Of course, what you really do if your kid has the flu or w/e and you need a doctor's note for every day missed, is to send the kid to school and have them send the kid home. That way, you don't need a note (nor a note for the day after, since they'll tell you to keep the kid home the next day). The day after that, you send the kid to school again, and repeat the getting kid sent home etc thing if the kid is still ill. Not ideal for the kid, certainly not ideal for everyone else in the school who gets exposed to sick kid, but it's free. :)

[SunshineMom]

All around these practices hurt more than help families.

[brehon]

Yes, there's no doubt it's an asinine law. There are several bills wending their way through the Lege this session to correct this and, from what I understand, fairly solid bipartisan support. Hopefully, one will pass through committee(s) and Abbot will sign it into law. Putting kids in jail for truancy was ill-conceived from the start.

[Butter]

Yeah, no.  In our case, ds had doctors' notes for 8 out of 9 absences (which, BTW, meant $250 in copays).  If we didn't have those notes, we were told a truancy officer would likely be dispatched to our house. 

 

Yes, that's why I said the ISDs get to decide how they implement it.  I explained how the ISD *I* live in chooses to implement it.  The way other ISDs do varies widely.

[chiguirre]

Wow, so if you don't have medical insurance for your child to see a doctor, then parents could get fined or sent to jail for truancy because the child's absence wasn't excused by a medical professional.  The parents have no authority with the school and yes, this practice targets those in poverty.

Well, actually, the trick is to send the kid to school and have the school nurse send them home. I learned this when Geezle threw up at school and I asked if I needed a doctor's note for him to miss the next day. I will, of course, never keep him home if he's sick, but not sick enough for the doctor (who does NOT want to see every stomach virus or bad cold). He can go to school (possibly infect his classmates) and then go to the nurse's office for them to call me. It's a stupid system, but that's how it actually works, even in an upper middle class suburb.

 

I've known parents who had to appear before the school board to ask for a waiver because their child was hospitalized for a week and had a medical excuse for an extra week. I was amazed that they didn't pull their kids. I would have been outraged, but there are a lot of sheeple who just accept the ISD's crap.

[Aelwydd]

Yes, that's why I said the ISDs get to decide how they implement it. I explained how the ISD *I* live in chooses to implement it. The way other ISDs do varies widely.

And enough of them choose to criminalize absenteeism to send 1000+ teens to jail, imprison parents, and fine scores more. It's a flawed policy, and it directly works against keeping kids in school.

[Aelwydd]

Well, actually, the trick is to send the kid to school and have the school nurse send them home. I learned this when Geezle threw up at school and I asked if I needed a doctor's note for him to miss the next day. I will, of course, never keep him home if he's sick, but not sick enough for the doctor (who does NOT want to see every stomach virus or bad cold). He can go to school (possibly infect his classmates) and then go to the nurse's office for them to call me. It's a stupid system, but that's how it actually works, even in an upper middle class suburb.

 

I've known parents who had to appear before the school board to ask for a waiver because their child was hospitalized for a week and had a medical excuse for an extra week. I was amazed that they didn't pull their kids. I would have been outraged, but there are a lot of sheeple who just accept the ISD's crap.

Yup.

[Aelwydd]

FYI, Texas is late to the party. Truancy is a big money in California and has been for years. (I'm not a big fan, but in defense of the policy, jailing students/parents is the last resort at the end of a loooooooong road. For the student population "served," oftentimes the only consistent education received is while in custody. The motivation, however, is bucks for butts in seats.)

I agree it's all related to funding. It's why schools are motivated to penalize absences.

[happi duck]

Dd was in PS until second grade. She was ill several days but not behind in any way. One reason we decided to pull her out was when we were informed that one more absence would result in repeating second grade.

 

So dumb.

 

Eta: though apparently I should be glad they didn't arrest dd or me!

[Shellydon]

Really, you can think of nothing else to do besides lock them up, thereby causing them to miss more school?

 

Yep, really.  When a high school kid refuses to go to school, I have no idea how you force them. Their parents don't know either.

[SunshineMom]

The reasons why children refuse or drop out of school are complex and often not entirely within their control whereas inflicting truancy fines as a punishment are simplistic and ineffective (i.e. drop out rate).

[*Lulu*]

Yep, really. When a high school kid refuses to go to school, I have no idea how you force them. Their parents don't know either.

So putting them in an adult facility where they are also not receiving education is an acceptable answer?

 

I *might* be able to say I understand if these truants were in juvenile facilities where accommodations for education already exist. You could at least argue that they were receiving education at that point. But even at that the numbers suggest a more complex set of issues than simply rebellious youths refusing to attend school.