Did melatonin help your non-sleeper SLEEP?

[AimeeM]

I'm getting conflicting advice about melatonin supplements for the Flying Marvelous Marco.

 

About a year ago, before he was quite 2, his pediatrician gave me the okay to try it with him. She said that she generally didn't recommend it for this age, but that she had rarely seen as hyperactive, or enthusiastic, a young toddler as him, either, so the normal rules didn't necessarily apply, lol.

 

We tried it. It did nothing. Nada. Zilch.

 

His OT recently suggested we try it again, now that he's a bit older.

 

The problem? Everything I'm reading is saying that melatonin supplements do NOT help a child stay asleep. Marco has NO problem falling asleep - his issue is, and has always been, staying that way. He falls asleep between 7 and 8 pm (depending on whether or not a nap happened for him that day or not). He wakes again between 10 and 11 pm, and is up every hour on the hour after that initial re-waking; sometimes, around 1 or 2 am, he just decides he's up for the day and doesn't go back to sleep at all.

 

I'm not going to give him the melatonin if it isn't going to help with the issue. If it only helps him fall asleep initially, there's no point - he GOES to bed with no problem; we've attempted changing his bedtime, but that doesn't help - his waking up in the middle of the night doesn't change no matter when he initially goes to bed.

 

I'm getting off track. Most of you know about our bedtime plights, lol. 

 

So, did it help your kiddo STAY asleep, or did it just get them to sleep quicker initially?

 

[Rosie_0801]

Have you ever tried a chiro? That's what helped my midnight enthusiast sleep. For a while. Until he bumped that vertebrae back out again. 

 

Also, can you feed your boy something nice and carby before bed? If he's still full from dinner, try a few dates.

[AimeeM]

Lol - he eats carb heavy before bed EVERY night :) He's our lover of all things "plain pasta". 

 

I haven't tried a chiro. Honestly, at the moment, I do not have the time to go to another doctor - between DS5's specialists, and Marco's in-home therapies, I'm maxed out (completely) time-wise. I will definitely consider it for later (he'll be dropping OT and EI from his therapy schedule in a few months, which will just leave ST once a week), though.

[MomsintheGarden]

Different situation, but our ds had the same experience with melatonin.  It helped him get to sleep more easily, but it caused him to have more vivid (and weird!) dreams and to wake up in the middle of the night.

 

I have not tried this, but a friend of mine who has children with insomnia says that a nice hot epsom salt bath (magnesium) just before bed works the best.

 

Sleep troubles are so miserable with children.  I hope you find a solution that works for you.

[trulycrabby]

Yes, it has helped DS10. You can try time-release melatonin or just give marvelous flying marco another dose if he wakes in the night.

[kewb]

Have you tried acupuncture. I think melatonin is more to help you fall asleep then about helping you stay asleep.

[AimeeM]

Yes, it has helped DS10. You can try time-release melatonin or just give marvelous flying marco another dose if he wakes in the night.

Hmm. I'll ask his ped about the time release - that sounds more promising based on our experience. I don't recall the dosing she told me to give him, and that was about a year ago, so his dosing may have changed. I'll call her monday (she's only there part-time).

[AimeeM]

Have you tried acupuncture. I think melatonin is more to help you fall asleep then about helping you stay asleep.

Wouldn't that require him sit very still for at least a few minutes? I'm sincerely asking because I'm not very familiar with it. If it does require he sit still, I'm not sure it will work. 

[Rosie_0801]

If you ever get to see a chiro, get a paediatric chiro. They are used to small people who don't want to stay still and won't take offence when the child doesn't like them. :rolleyes: I used to have Marek adjusted by having him stand on the bench with me hugging him like a vice. Not ideal, but it was enough to help. :lol:

[sbgrace]

Melatonin is good for problems falling asleep, but not so much for staying asleep. It wears off in 3 or so hours.

 

You could try time release forms, though. Start with the smallest dose you can find. If it's not effective, bump up another 1/4 or 1/2 a dose at time to find the least effective dose. Life Extension Time Released 300 mcg (not mg, mcg...that's .3 mg) was the smallest dose I found when Iooked for my son. He may do better with 1 mg though, and you should have lots of options for that amount in time release. You probably have to do online (Amazon for example) ordering. I have trouble finding doses lower than 3 mg locally. You probably don't need that much, and more than needed can cause vivid dreams and similar issues.

[Paige]

I wouldn't give it if his problem is frequent waking. It helps my DS go to sleep, but his problem is falling asleep in the first place. For frequent waking, I'd wonder if something else is up. Is he waking to go to the bathroom because of an immature bladder? I wouldn't want to interfere with that. Is he waking from bad dreams? Is he scared or lonely? He's so little that while frequent waking is no longer expected, I wouldn't say it is abnormal either. It's more of the unfortunate side of the normal curve. Maybe a weighted blanket would help. 

 

 

[Pronghorn]

Look into the role of blue light in the body's production of melatonin. The room should be pitch dark so that the body keeps making melatonin. If he can't tolerate darkness, get a nightlight that does not emit blue light. See lowbluelights.com

[AimeeM]

I wouldn't give it if his problem is frequent waking. It helps my DS go to sleep, but his problem is falling asleep in the first place. For frequent waking, I'd wonder if something else is up. Is he waking to go to the bathroom because of an immature bladder? I wouldn't want to interfere with that. Is he waking from bad dreams? Is he scared or lonely? He's so little that while frequent waking is no longer expected, I wouldn't say it is abnormal either. It's more of the unfortunate side of the normal curve. Maybe a weighted blanket would help. 

He isn't anywhere near toilet trained (diaper still), so it isn't needing to potty :)

I don't think he's scared, and since I'm generally in the bedroom with him after his first waking, he isn't lonely. He wants to move, play, be read to, jump from the toybox, stage an escape, sit on his brother's head (which is why brother now sleeps in the master, not in their room)... but no, he isn't scared :)

We did talk (OT, me) about a weighted blanket. She approved a 2 or 3 (or maybe 4) lb blanket, based on working with him. If he doesn't like blankets, will he like a weighted one, though? He likes to sleep on the sleeping bag on the floor - no pillow, no blanket (it's why I put him in a warm sleeper still, even when it's warmer out).

I do know that it isn't necessarily terribly abnormal... but it can't be healthy either. He is barely banking any consistent sleep. God knows I'm not ;P

[Hypatia.]

I tried it when my middle son was 2-3. His problem was staying asleep (he was still waking every 2 hours at night), not falling asleep, so it didn't help. We found out he had obstructive sleep apnea and his sleep drastically improved after having his adenoids removed.

[AimeeM]

Has he had a sleep study yet?

No. It isn't something I'm willing to consider right now.

[Rosie_0801]

Melotonin is converted serotonin, so perhaps you can add more serotonin ingredients to his diet? Hence my suggestion of dates. 

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

No. Melatonin caused huge horrid nightmares.

 

Weighted blanket = miracle worker at our house. A friend uses compression sheets with her kid instead of a weighted blanket. http://asensorylife.com/sleep-challenges.html

 

For us, doing a ton of sensory work before bed also helped...therapy ball, joint compressions, head stands, 30 min of rocking. Magnesium has also been key.

[AimeeM]

Okay. So dates, possibly time released melatonin, see how he handles a weighted blanket, and do some of his sensory play before bedtime... and then, later, maybe a chiropractor. Game plan? Maybe? Lol.

[kewb]

With acupuncture you usually have to be still for a little bit. I would speak with an acupuncturist who deals with children and find out what would be necessary.

[freeindeed]

Melatonin helps my children fall asleep, but not stay asleep.

[JRmommy]

I'm in the same boat, sort of, with my 2.5 year old. She wakes up countless times each night. She always has. From my initial research, melatonin is just for falling asleep. I plan on trying magnesium (Epsom salt baths, magnesium lotions/sprays) as that sounds to be more promising. I'll let you know how it goes. From one sleepy mom to another. :)

[prairiewindmomma]

This is kind of off-topic.....but you might consider finding someone who can sit with him all night so that *you* can get sleep. My body handled the first couple of years of sleep deprivation ok, but I now have some serious health consequences (autoimmune) which we believe stem from years of not sleeping well. In retrospect, I should've ensured that I was sleeping at least two nights a week for at least a four hour stretch.  I kind of blew off everyone at the time who suggested I needed to sleep. I don't know that I truly understood what chronic sleep deprivation does to a body in terms of chronic inflammation, antibodies, etc. It's not just dark circles under the eyes and a sketchy memory. ;)

[AimeeM]

This is kind of off-topic.....but you might consider finding someone who can sit with him all night so that *you* can get sleep. My body handled the first couple of years of sleep deprivation ok, but I now have some serious health consequences (autoimmune) which we believe stem from years of not sleeping well. In retrospect, I should've ensured that I was sleeping at least two nights a week for at least a four hour stretch.  I kind of blew off everyone at the time who suggested I needed to sleep. I don't know that I truly understood what chronic sleep deprivation does to a body in terms of chronic inflammation, antibodies, etc. It's not just dark circles under the eyes and a sketchy memory. ;)

I would so consider it, if I had somebody I felt could physically handle it, and who I trusted that much. I just don't. Our new sitter is wonderful, but she's a 17 year old girl with school and sitting jobs the next morning - there's no way she could do it (and I wouldn't blame her mom for saying "no way"; I would if it were my teenager). My best friend, who used to be my sitter, isn't out sitter now for a reason, besides - she has kids of her own at home. 

 

[kbutton]

I don't have anything to add about melatonin than what has been stated, but I am sorry about the sleep issues. My younger son had a lot of wakeful nights, partly because of reflux and partly because he doesn't need tons of sleep. He used to pull middle of the night all-nighters every couple of months. It was like he had caught up on a sleep and needed to stay up all night to rectify the situation. It evened out later when he was able to stay up later and was more active during the day.

 

I would humbly suggest avoiding naps if at all possible during the day. My kids were both completely done with naps (except for short car naps once in a while during a growth spurt) by 18 months and never took long ones to begin with. I slept only 8 hours per night by the time I was 18 mos. old (not that way now, lol!). 

 

I think I saw you mention OT. Our OT (who has been in practice for 30+ years) was rather shocked by how much deep pressure our older son needs--it's pretty massive (he's ten now). They may be going too easy on your son. If so, he may need a LOT more heavy work than expected. Does he wear a weighted vest during the day? Does he like heavy work? My deep pressure kiddo was dragging a huge basket of magazines across the floor while crawling at 6 months old--I am certain the magazines weighed as much as or more than him since he was on the wiry side. Heavy work is our friend. My son does have some core strength issues now that he's too big for my husband to suspend him like a bat and let him rock back and forth that way, but otherwise, he's as strong as an ox from all the input he craves. Adults are always shocked at what he can carry, push, etc. He isn't hyper, and he doesn't climb or do daredevil things, but that deep pressure is a such a huge thing for him. If your son likes sleeping on the floor, I bet he'll like a heavy blanket. Maybe he's not liked covers before because they are too light and just tangle or tickle.

 

At any rate, best wishes. I would be really stressed with so little sleep. I hope you find answers and strategies that work.

[AimeeM]

Oh we've tried no naps! I promise, lol. It did nothing... except turn him into a complete nightmare from 3pm until he passed out at night (and he was still waking up shortly after he fell asleep!).

 

I imagine the OT is going easy on Marco... but that's necessary right now. He's still nursing an arm injury that required an ER visit on Christmas day (while we were out of state, no less). It isn't hurting him any more, but the ER doctor told us to baby it for a few months because it would be prone to re-injury for a while. 

The OT has also only seen him a few times, so I think they're still getting a feel for each other. She did said that he has rather extreme "sensory seeking tendencies and sensory needs", but I think she is still assessing his needs right now, too.

He doesn't care much for heavy work, and he's pretty tiny for his age, which is why the OT held off on the weighted blanket recommendation until she had evaluated what he could handle, pressure wise. As it is, as much as she thinks his needs may be more, she isn't comfortable recommending anything more than a 2 or 3 lb weighted blanket, just because he's so small. 

I'm not sure how I would know if he wanted or needed to push things around or heavy work. Right now, because of needing to baby the arm (try telling him that - HE isn't willing to baby it, lol; he's 2.5!), we couldn't do it, but maybe later we could. He doesn't seem to have any desire to lift heavy things or push them. His needs are more of the climbing, jumping, flying variety. And hugs. He's pretty darn serious about his tight hugs. He loves them... which is why I asked (at the advice of this board!) about the weighted blanket - he seems to really like being wrapped up in my arms (or dad's arms, or sissy's arms, or his speech therapist's arms, lol).

I don't have anything to add about melatonin than what has been stated, but I am sorry about the sleep issues. My younger son had a lot of wakeful nights, partly because of reflux and partly because he doesn't need tons of sleep. He used to pull middle of the night all-nighters every couple of months. It was like he had caught up on a sleep and needed to stay up all night to rectify the situation. It evened out later when he was able to stay up later and was more active during the day.

 

I would humbly suggest avoiding naps if at all possible during the day. My kids were both completely done with naps (except for short car naps once in a while during a growth spurt) by 18 months and never took long ones to begin with. I slept only 8 hours per night by the time I was 18 mos. old (not that way now, lol!). 

 

I think I saw you mention OT. Our OT (who has been in practice for 30+ years) was rather shocked by how much deep pressure our older son needs--it's pretty massive (he's ten now). They may be going too easy on your son. If so, he may need a LOT more heavy work than expected. Does he wear a weighted vest during the day? Does he like heavy work? My deep pressure kiddo was dragging a huge basket of magazines across the floor while crawling at 6 months old--I am certain the magazines weighed as much as or more than him since he was on the wiry side. Heavy work is our friend. My son does have some core strength issues now that he's too big for my husband to suspend him like a bat and let him rock back and forth that way, but otherwise, he's as strong as an ox from all the input he craves. Adults are always shocked at what he can carry, push, etc. He isn't hyper, and he doesn't climb or do daredevil things, but that deep pressure is a such a huge thing for him. If your son likes sleeping on the floor, I bet he'll like a heavy blanket. Maybe he's not liked covers before because they are too light and just tangle or tickle.

 

At any rate, best wishes. I would be really stressed with so little sleep. I hope you find answers and strategies that work.

 

[Rosie_0801]

You're working on eroding the retained reflexes?

[J-rap]

Every time my husband tried it, it just gave him a bad headache.

 

I recently found this article on eating a tablespoon of raw honey before bed:

 

http://blog.sethroberts.net/2013/11/05/honey-at-bedtime-improves-sleep/

 

 

 

[imagine.more]

Same as others have said, in my experience Melatonin is great for falling asleep but will not help you stay asleep. I take it and my oldest son takes it because we both tend to get out of whack sleep cycles periodically (usually in winter or summer) and melatonin prevents the lying-awake-for-hours annoyance before bed. I love it for that because it just helps me get to sleep and doesn't leave me groggy in the am.

 

For staying asleep I think you'd have to look a bit further unfortunately. I agree the weighted blanket could definitely help if he has sensory issues. My oldest has slight sensory issues but thankfully while he's low sleep needs he is generally a good sleeper. He just drops naps early. 

 

One thing to consider is overstimulation. My friend has 3 children with sensory processing issues and all of them require a lot of sleep and have a low tolerance for wake time before becoming cranky, unhappy, or hyper. Hyperactivity is a common symptom of over tiredness, which you might know from dealing with sensory issues already. In that case maybe an earlier bedtime, as odd as it sounds, would help. 

 

On the flip side, I was once given great advice when my oldest son was 2.5 and acting up at bedtime and not falling asleep and waking early. I was told boys (and girls, but boys even more) require 3 hours outside every day :) So I did that, I set about doing everything possible to get my son outside all morning and afternoon (2 hours minimum, 3 was the goal) and his sleep issues resolved completely. His behavior improved and he was just a happier kid all around. So for him he needed more stimulation but of a very particular kind....sunshine and fresh air and free run of the yard.

 

 

[Mom22ns]

Others have already said it, but I'll echo again, my ASD kiddo took melatonin starting at about 2.5 by recommendation of his ped. neurologist. It helped him fall asleep, but not stay asleep. The time release version might help, but I wouldn't re-dose during the night because it can cause lethargy the next day, which might not sound so bad to you at this moment but really, I know the melatonin hang-over feeling and it isn't pleasant.

 

I take melatonin and so does ds. My sister can't take it because of nightmares. I wouldn't give someone that young more than 1mg. 

[AimeeM]

You're working on eroding the retained reflexes?

Hmm. Maybe... if I knew what that meant :P

[prairiewindmomma]

http://lynnhellerstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Primitive_Reflexes-1.pdf

 

This is an example of what she's talking about. When I first heard of retained primitive reflexes, I thought it a bit woo.... until I started really addressing the issues in a child, and I saw the difference in behaviors. 

 

A decent and safe way to test the bundling thing is to take a very large blanket, like a bed quilt, and try rolling him up like a burrito. If he enjoys the sensation, chances are that a weighted blanket or compression sheets might work. You can also try putting him in a bed, and pulling and tucking the sheets very tight around him....

[Rosie_0801]

Hmm. Maybe... if I knew what that meant :p

 

All those baby reflexes that are meant to go away sometimes don't, and cause a lot of the problems you're talking about.

 

Google retained primitive reflexes for more info, but for starters, if you can't tickle his palm with a paintbrush 40 times without more of a reaction than a mild "that's annoying," you're dealing with a retained palmar reflex. If you have that, you almost certainly have more because there's an order they need to be eroded in. If your boy seeks spinning and rocking, or strongly avoids them, you're probably dealing with a retained Moro which is a whole bundle of trouble. If he mouths things, is more than usually fussy about food for the age and sound sensitive, you're probably looking at some of the face reflexes like the rooting reflex. If you can't run your finger down the side of his spine without a reaction, you've got a retained spinal galant and that interferes with toileting.

 

 

It's really not woo, no matter what your paediatrician says.

[prairiewindmomma]

You might also consider this for indoor swinging http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19809351/

[kbutton]

Oh we've tried no naps! I promise, lol. It did nothing... except turn him into a complete nightmare from 3pm until he passed out at night (and he was still waking up shortly after he fell asleep!).

 

I imagine the OT is going easy on Marco... but that's necessary right now. He's still nursing an arm injury that required an ER visit on Christmas day (while we were out of state, no less). It isn't hurting him any more, but the ER doctor told us to baby it for a few months because it would be prone to re-injury for a while. 

The OT has also only seen him a few times, so I think they're still getting a feel for each other. She did said that he has rather extreme "sensory seeking tendencies and sensory needs", but I think she is still assessing his needs right now, too.

He doesn't care much for heavy work, and he's pretty tiny for his age, which is why the OT held off on the weighted blanket recommendation until she had evaluated what he could handle, pressure wise. As it is, as much as she thinks his needs may be more, she isn't comfortable recommending anything more than a 2 or 3 lb weighted blanket, just because he's so small. 

I'm not sure how I would know if he wanted or needed to push things around or heavy work. Right now, because of needing to baby the arm (try telling him that - HE isn't willing to baby it, lol; he's 2.5!), we couldn't do it, but maybe later we could. He doesn't seem to have any desire to lift heavy things or push them. His needs are more of the climbing, jumping, flying variety. And hugs. He's pretty darn serious about his tight hugs. He loves them... which is why I asked (at the advice of this board!) about the weighted blanket - he seems to really like being wrapped up in my arms (or dad's arms, or sissy's arms, or his speech therapist's arms, lol).

 

Ah, sorry it's not helpful information much. Though the tight hugging and such is similar to heavy work--both are kinds of deep pressure, I think. It's interesting to me that he likes one but not the other, but maybe that is due to another underlying issue. Was his OT intake exam a SIPT exam? I hear that is the gold standard for sensory stuff. My older one was too old for a SIPT exam, and my younger one didn't have enough sensory flags to go the whole SIPT evaluation route (it's twice as long as the typical OT exam). Older son had big sensory issues (seeking and avoiding), but no retained reflexes (they are nasty buggers!). One activity he likes is to roll up in a blanket like a burrito, and then you roll him right back out. My other DS is low tone, and now that he is building up muscle mass, he's enjoying heavy work more than he used to. But yeah, my older one sought it out all the time--you'd know if yours is doing that just like you know he likes climbing, flying, etc. If you are just starting OT, it can take time to find the right combo of activities. Our OT was very experienced, but it took several weeks for her to figure out that a lot of my son's activities needed to be paired with just the right things to be effective--in his case, a combination of vestibular stuff with deep pressure right after.

 

I hope you find the right combination of stuff! It sounds like you're doing a great job of working on all of this stuff. Hang in there.

[Soror]

You might have already looked into this but I would ask have you looked into food issues? IIRC one of your kids has been diagnosed Celiac and it is hereditary. Perhaps he is the one and I'm misremembering but it is worth a thought. Issues with gluten often go hand in hand with dairy sensitivity, sometimes that is just until there is enough gut healing after going gluten free but sometimes it is life long. All of my kids but 1 have food issues and it greatly effected there behavior and ability to sleep, ds was a totally new kid when we went gf/df and Feingold- I mean I was seriously worried about him. Now, it didn't remove all his issues but it made a serious profound impact. It is certainly worth investigating.

 

Fwiw re melatonin, I have that same problem myself sometimes and even tried taking a partial dose when I woke up but it seems mine is hormonal (it is cyclical) and it absolutely didn't help that. Sometimes it seemed to really knock me out but it wasn't really effective, I would guess it would depend on the cause for sleep issues.

[AimeeM]

You might have already looked into this but I would ask have you looked into food issues? IIRC one of your kids has been diagnosed Celiac and it is hereditary. Perhaps he is the one and I'm misremembering but it is worth a thought. Issues with gluten often go hand in hand with dairy sensitivity, sometimes that is just until there is enough gut healing after going gluten free but sometimes it is life long. All of my kids but 1 have food issues and it greatly effected there behavior and ability to sleep, ds was a totally new kid when we went gf/df and Feingold- I mean I was seriously worried about him. Now, it didn't remove all his issues but it made a serious profound impact. It is certainly worth investigating.

 

Fwiw re melatonin, I have that same problem myself sometimes and even tried taking a partial dose when I woke up but it seems mine is hormonal (it is cyclical) and it absolutely didn't help that. Sometimes it seemed to really knock me out but it wasn't really effective, I would guess it would depend on the cause for sleep issues.

DD13 had a wheat allergy, but not celiacs (we thought it was celiacs, but testing revealed a wheat allergy instead... regardless, it was treated the same way). 

 

DS2 has had the same extensive allergy testing, and dairy was the only "iffy" (first it came back as an allergy, then it didn't) - otherwise his was clear.

[Soror]

DD13 had a wheat allergy, but not celiacs (we thought it was celiacs, but testing revealed a wheat allergy instead... regardless, it was treated the same way). 

 

DS2 has had the same extensive allergy testing, and dairy was the only "iffy" (first it came back as an allergy, then it didn't) - otherwise his was clear.

It doesn't have to be a true allergy to be bothersome, just throwing it out there, I got to the point that I was desperate enough to try it, as there is no harm in giving it a 30 day trial. Often kids with issues seem to often have food issues. 

[AimeeM]

It doesn't have to be a true allergy to be bothersome, just throwing it out there, I got to the point that I was desperate enough to try it, as there is no harm in giving it a 30 day trial. Often kids with issues seem to often have food issues. 

If I take dairy out of his diet, any ideas about how to get some good fat back in the diet? He's moderately picky (he won't eat avocado, for example, which has been suggested). He can't afford to lose any weight, which is a concern for me.

[Soror]

We get a lot of fat through coconut oil in our house. Milkshakes/smoothies with coconut cream are loved and easy to load up in fat and calories (a good base is chocolate almond milk/coconut cream/ banana and strawberries. I stock up at Trader Joes when I go up as they have a good price for some nice think kind but other stores and Amazon carries some as well. I cook most things in coconut oil and it is easy to cook it in more oil, if nuts are tolerated then that is another way to get some in as well (it also depends on your personal thoughts as to what are good fats). My youngest is a small one as well but finally seems to be gaining better and that seems to have improved since I became militant with her diet- I had to get her sleeping better as my own sleep was bad enough I thought I might go insane. I did start putting coconut oil in things like oatmeal, would give her huge spoons of nut butter. Anything I could think of that was calorie dense I loaded her up as much as I could, the primary thing was eliminated foods that seemed troublesome and then getting in as many calories as I could so she would gain weight and also not wake up to nurse. 

 

eta- I forgot about eggs but that is a good source of fat and protein, I took my last one off eggs at the same time so it slipped my mind but they great if they are tolerated.

[6packofun]

I use melatonin on a regular but not daily basis for our 8yo who seems to need very very little sleep.  He does not fall asleep before 11 most nights and is usually the first one up.  But that's a different scenario than yours!  

 

Have you tried using a sleep mask?  My dh wakes frequently in the night and I also like to read in bed with a little light and the mask helps him a lot.  He read a study about how most of us do not sleep in dark enough surroundings--especially children if they have a night light on or any other source of light--and the body's ability to distinguish night from day can get messed up, causing too little melatonin to be produced.  Something like that!  lol

[Soror]

I use melatonin on a regular but not daily basis for our 8yo who seems to need very very little sleep.  He does not fall asleep before 11 most nights and is usually the first one up.  But that's a different scenario than yours!  

 

Have you tried using a sleep mask?  My dh wakes frequently in the night and I also like to read in bed with a little light and the mask helps him a lot.  He read a study about how most of us do not sleep in dark enough surroundings--especially children if they have a night light on or any other source of light--and the body's ability to distinguish night from day can get messed up, causing too little melatonin to be produced.  Something like that!  lol

Yes, we really need dark to sleep. We've had recent issues here as older 3 kids like to sleep together and like a light on, well 2 out of 3 seem ok with this but 1 was getting very grumpy. Personally I am very, very sensitive to light I don't even allow dh a clock,  he has to keep it flipped over.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Sounds obvious, but sometimes I don't think of it for awhile, but could he be getting cold in the night?  Have you tried an electric blanket?  The newer fiber ones don't produce the radiation that was a concern with the old wired models.

 

[hornblower]

If I take dairy out of his diet, any ideas about how to get some good fat back in the diet? He's moderately picky (he won't eat avocado, for example, which has been suggested). He can't afford to lose any weight, which is a concern for me.

 

 

 

for healthy fats, nuts and seeds (esp flax seeds) & a bit of evoo.

 

if you're an omni, wild alaska salmon or salmon capsules

 

for veg, there are vegan omega 3 supplements

 

would he like things like bean dip or hummus

 

if you go for plant milks, soy will give you lots of protein. Almond, rice & hemp etc are all low protein.

 

 

About the melatonin - I use it occasionally & it does help me sleep.

 

But have you considered l-theanine first? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254 I use this supplement now & it has been very helpful.  The study is with much older children but as I understand it, this supplement is considered very safe. Of course check w/ a doc for the ok.

[AimeeM]

He will not eat nuts or seeds.

He may eat salmon (we eat it and he will generally try meaty things that aren't red meat - he doesn't like red meat, really).

He will not eat dips of any kind (texture thing with him).

So soy milk is better than almond milk? He doesn't like almond milk, so that should be fine. The doctor actually suggested almond over soy because she said it had more fat?

 

for healthy fats, nuts and seeds (esp flax seeds) & a bit of evoo.

if you're an omni, wild alaska salmon or salmon capsules

for veg, there are vegan omega 3 supplements

would he like things like bean dip or hummus

if you go for plant milks, soy will give you lots of protein. Almond, rice & hemp etc are all low protein.


About the melatonin - I use it occasionally & it does help me sleep.

But have you considered l-theanine first? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254 I use this supplement now & it has been very helpful.  The study is with much older children but as I understand it, this supplement is considered very safe. Of course check w/ a doc for the ok.

 

[Annie Anne]

It helped one of them sleep for a while.

For the persistent one it went

Bad sleep to

diagnosis of sleep apnea

to diagnosis of low iorn

to 2 tab over the counter elemental iron each day

to no sleep problems
 

 

[AimeeM]

Sounds obvious, but sometimes I don't think of it for awhile, but could he be getting cold in the night?  Have you tried an electric blanket?  The newer fiber ones don't produce the radiation that was a concern with the old wired models.

I bet he is cold! He won't keep a blanket on AT ALL, though. He usually slides himself off the pillow, too. 

I usually dress him in fleece sleepers to keep him warm at night.

[Ottakee]

I bet he is cold! He won't keep a blanket on AT ALL, though. He usually slides himself off the pillow, too. 

I usually dress him in fleece sleepers to keep him warm at night.

For the cold, I would dress my fosters in a onsie, then mid weight PJs with long pants and long sleeves and then over that a heavy zip up sleeper.  If he feet seem cold, add socks before the heavy sleeper.

 

For fats, you could try the Omega 3s.  They can really help some kids with ADHD as well.  Not sure on dose for someone that tiny but by age 5-6 it is 1000mg of EPA (not just total fish oil) a day.

[Soror]

He will not eat nuts or seeds.

He may eat salmon (we eat it and he will generally try meaty things that aren't red meat - he doesn't like red meat, really).

He will not eat dips of any kind (texture thing with him).

So soy milk is better than almond milk? He doesn't like almond milk, so that should be fine. The doctor actually suggested almond over soy because she said it had more fat?

Rather or not soy milk is better depends on who you ask, I don't feed my kids soy, personally. Otherwise we pick our non-dairy milk mostly based on taste, mine have preferences for certain brands. They like Aldi's just fine and Silk, I'm sure others have different preferences. They eat a fair amount of meat so protein is not a huge concern here. 

[hornblower]

He will not eat nuts or seeds.

He may eat salmon (we eat it and he will generally try meaty things that aren't red meat - he doesn't like red meat, really).

He will not eat dips of any kind (texture thing with him).

So soy milk is better than almond milk? He doesn't like almond milk, so that should be fine. The doctor actually suggested almond over soy because she said it had more fat?

 

a lot varies from brand to brand but for ex Silk brand original almond has 2.5g fat & 1 g protein & 60 cal/cup but the organic unsweetened soy (ie non gmo) is 4g fat & 7g protein & 80cal/cup

 

a lot of the plant milks now come in chocolate etc varieties if that would tempt him more?

 

so no peanut butter or Nutella type stuff (if you're going dairy free, there are vegan options for nutella substitutes).

 

Will he accept any sauce on his pasta? How about adding small amounts of creamed tofu or creamed italian white beans to a plain tomato sauce? They disappear in the sauce & this way you can increase nutrition & overall calorie values.  

 

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

whether melatonin works for any one - depends upon the reason for their insomnia.

 

dudeling has messed up chemistry, for which insomnia is one common symptom.  we started him on melatonin when he was four.  he went from sleeping 8 hours and lots of difficulty falling asleep, to 11 hours and being asleep within a reasonable amount of time of being put to bed, which is more appropriate for a 4yo.

 

it was very difficult to get him to take anything. (I had to threaten he could swallow it, or we'd inject it.)  the day after he tried melatonin - he asked for it again.  if I forgot to give it to him, he reminded me.  this is the child who would hide supplements everywhere from duct work to mr. potato head. but he would willingly swallow the melatonin.  he will still ask for it if he has trouble sleeping, because for  him, it does work.  

 

one caveat, he was taking 6mgs - which was a lot, but that was how much it took to work for him.  his mood and function were so much better the next day because he was sleeping better. 

 

after doing 1mg glutathione (naturally occurring anti-oxidant, his levels were inadequate) injection (only absorbable form) daily for two months, I took him completely off the melatonin because he had started to sleep too much.  3 years later, he occasionally asks for one (I have 3mg).  but no more than a couple times a week.  maybe.  oh, and that first summer when he finally started actually sleeping - he grew two inches.