s/o Parents of kids who don't specialize

[MinivanMom]

I have some questions stemming from 8's comments in the other thread, but they are very off topic so I thought I would start a new thread. I've been reading that thread from the opposite side since I have kids who have not specialized or found a single all-consuming passion yet.

 

8FillTheHeart, on 02 Jan 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

That is just a very long way of saying that if they jump in and close the lid on the box, don't join them. You need to open up the lid and let them stay in the box if that is what they want. You provide them everything in your ability to fill that box with the tools they want and will need, but you equally build a staircase out of the box and have welcoming arms if they ultimately decide that climbing out and following a different path is the one they want.

It can be difficult to navigate. But knowing adult children, others and our own, we really must acknowledge how much influence we can have on them even if is subconscious and unintended. With these really bright and talented kids, I think you have to affirm that they don't have to know now what they want to do and that changing directions at any time is definitely OK.

 

This is so beautiful, but it's so hard in real life to watch your kids trying to find their thing. I want to feel a great deal of conviction about the path we're on, but there are times when I question myself.

 

 

I live in an affluent, high-achieving area where we are one of the only ones whose children have not yet specialized - and I have pretty young children. Recently, we went to a dinner for our oldest daughter's junior youth group at church (girls in 4th-6th grades) where they asked the girls to each make a poster about their talents, passions, and goals. All these girls were getting up, and they all have one single all-consuming passion: an academic subject, an instrument, a sport (one little girl who just aged out of the group has given up everything else to train for the Olympics). What struck me, though, was the way they spoke about their passion. Nobody said, "I love learning about science," or "I am learning to play the violin." Instead it was, "I'm going to be a biochemist and research x," or "I am a violinist."

 

 

Then my dd11 (who is one of the oldest in this group) gets up and says, "I'm interested in x. I'm learning about y. I enjoy taking classes about z," and I couldn't help being struck by how different her language was from the other girls. And I questioned my approach and my attitude. I couldn't help but wonder if I was doing her a disservice in terms of building confidence and a sense of positive self-worth. And even though, in the abstract, not defining yourself by a single pursuit and not boxing yourself in sounds like a really good goal, the other girls all sounded so full of confidence and positive self-worth. "I am x, and I have value."

 

I'm not sure exactly what my question is here. I guess it's more of an observation that kids who have found a passion, even if it is eventually replaced by another passion, have such a positive sense of focus. I can't help but wonder if I should be encouraging my kids to get in a box - any box - rather than exploring so much. I'm wondering whether there is a upside to defining yourself by a single activity in terms of positive self-image or whether I'm reading too much in. I guess I'm wanting some perspective from those who have traveled further down this road than us.

[8filltheheart]

I only have a sec b/c our oldest dd is moving out into her own apartment today. :)

 

From my experience, my kids have discovered and built the boxes themselves.  It wasn't from any outside encouragement.  They were exposed to ideas, activities, etc, and they took control of running with them.  NOT ALL kids do this.  Our oldest dd who I referenced above definitely did not.  She meandered happily through a huge gamut of activities.  I watched and observed.  In 11th grade, she ping ponged around a lot of ideas.  I would just gently interject where I thought I had observed her heart over yrs and that she is a real people person (which was nothing academic at all.  She volunteered with the elderly all the way rom elementary though high school.  She has a true affinity for geriatric patients.)

 

She thought she wanted to be a forensic chemist.  We sent her to a forensic chemistry camp, etc. (and she quickly eliminated it as a realistic idea.)  She worked for a yr as a caregiver for a seriously disabled teen.  (A 14 yr old boy who functioned on an 18 month old level.)  She realized that she really did not want to be in a lab or office, but that she wanted to work with people.  WHile being his caregiver she worked on OT activities with him.  She is now a COTA with geriatric patients.  (She started out initially with children and decided that her heart really was with the elderly.)

 

Ultimately, it is up to them.  We can offer opportunities, but other than that, the best thing I have learned for my own kids is to simply stay out of their way.  (Not related to your question, but I do insist on barriers which force them to still be kids with other lives and activities outside of a burning interest if they have one.  I have often had to tell my passionate kids NO to any more.)

[Arcadia]

I read this article "Important to cultivate young academic talents" from Gemini yesterday night and a paragraph stuck with me.

 

"“All children are born with stars in their eyes, and they are curious. It is important for teachers to be careful not to kill this curiosity. A lot can go wrong. Children can be teased, even by teachers,†May-Britt Moser said. “It is so important to allow children to bloom and to be driven by their curiosity. I was the youngest child. I got to be myself and ask stupid questions because I was the youngest. It is so important to listen to the questions children have, and reward them for the wondrous questions they ask.â€"

 

Link

http://gemini.no/en/2014/12/important-to-cultivate-young-academic-talents/

 

My 10 year old is my intense kid who decided early he wants to be an astronaut. Then as we go on plenty of road trips, he decided being an architect is his backup option. After he saw food trucks, he decided he want to own an ice-cream parlour and run it after his day job. I am sure new things/ideas will come up along the way.

 

My 9 year old on the other hand has no ideas what he want to be. If someone probe him for an answer, he would likely tell you scientist or robotics. He is also my less "picky" child and is happy in any class or events we attend. My husband specialise only when he was pursuing his phd. I think my 9 year old is likely to be the same way. My husband is the youngest, I am a firstborn but pampered as the youngest by my numerous cousins.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

One of the messages my dd hears most often is to be open to life and its changing paths. Many of the scientists she interacts with have had interesting, colorful, twisty lives. Yes, some have been on a focused, direct path since childhood, but the majority have had many twists and turns in the road. Many of my dd's friends have already narrowed their focus, but she stays pretty open with lots of interests within science.

 

She has joked about always wanting to study whatever the last scientist she spoke with is studying...

 

So she had narrowed broadly. ;) I honestly have no idea what she will end up doing - I see many possibilities.

 

She still keeps a well-rounded studies schedule. She enjoys history and other subjects - just like the scientists she interacts with. Most of them have at least one (if not more) passion outside of science. They sometimes even discuss how these interests enhance their science, not to mention their lives.

 

Sometimes my dd feels like a bit of a slacker because she doesn't have a pat answer about what career she hopes to have. (Well, she does have a pat answer, it just changes frequently... She has narrowed it down to a set of rotating responses so she doesn't feel awkward when she's put on the spot for an answer...So if you ask her two days in a row, be prepared for different answers. ;) )

 

I know many adults who have well-established, successful careers who still don't know what they want to be when they grow up. I think what's important is living a life of learning, knowing how to work hard, being open to opportunities when they arise, and being willing to chase after them when they don't.

[Tsuga]

 

I know many adults who have well-established successful careers who still don't know what they want to be when they grow up.

 

That's me! I can't say that being advanced in school had anything to do with my path except that I can do anything I want. I'm very glad I didn't get stuck in any one thing.

 

For people who love lifelong learning, philosophy and analytics/statistics are great areas of study because they prepare you with skills to learn quickly in any field. Unlike what some might think, everyone who graduated with a degree in philosophy (from my non-prestigious but very good) university has had a job since graduation--not always highly paid, but an interesting job.

[maize]

I grew up as one of ten siblings. Three of the ten had clear interests and life plans from a young age, and those have stuck--with some modifications along the way, but the general path never wavered.

 

The other seven didn't have clear overriding interests but explored a variety of different things. I don't personally perceive a difference either in self-confidence or in ultimate success/finding a well fitting life path between the two groups. I am inclined to think that your dd's church group is the exception rather than the rule if all of those kids really are firmly established with a particular passion. My experience is that some kids are inclined towards a single-minded interest and others are not, and either way is OK.

[JennW in SoCal]

 

Then my dd11 (who is one of the oldest in this group) gets up and says, "I'm interested in x. I'm learning about y. I enjoy taking classes about z," and I couldn't help being struck by how different her language was from the other girls. And I questioned my approach and my attitude. I couldn't help but wonder if I was doing her a disservice in terms of building confidence and a sense of positive self-worth. And even though, in the abstract, not defining yourself by a single pursuit and not boxing yourself in sounds like a really good goal, the other girls all sounded so full of confidence and positive self-worth. "I am x, and I have value."

 

I'm not sure exactly what my question is here. I guess it's more of an observation that kids who have found a passion, even if it is eventually replaced by another passion, have such a positive sense of focus. I can't help but wonder if I should be encouraging my kids to get in a box - any box - rather than exploring so much. I'm wondering whether there is a upside to defining yourself by a single activity in terms of positive self-image or whether I'm reading too much in. I guess I'm wanting some perspective from those who have traveled further down this road than us.

 

First of all, in response to the bolded, goodness no!  You are NOT doing her a disservice because she doesn't have a single box or because she doesn't speak of herself as being specifically and only an "x".   No doubt others who heard her talk were impressed by her enjoyment of and interest in a broad range of subjects.  

 

Some of what you heard may be the vocabulary these girls are surrounded by in brick and mortar schools.  They likely are immersed in the mindset that you have to strive to "be" something rather than the more typical homeschool culture where the journey, the joy of discovery and love of learning is itself the goal.  Some of these girls may well have that competitive drive for a sport or an instrument, but I'm guessing most of them are simply following a well rehearsed script. And we all do it to other adults -- that one is a professor, or engineer or surgeon or musician or mechanic, etc.  Its one of the things I miss about the homeschool community now that I'm an empty nester.  Homeschool parents, to me at least, are so much more than just a career, they are each a collection of talents and hobbies and knowledge, interesting people to get to know.

 

I've had one kid who found his box at an early age (12-13) and one who didn't til college.  My sample size is smaller than 8's ;) but I totally agree with her that the box is totally discovered and built by the child.  With both cases my job was the same -- provide opportunities, expose them to alternatives, chauffeur them all over town, educate them.

 

Having a kid inside a box isn't necessarily easier.  Mine resolutely didn't want to think outside of his box and it was a challenge pulling him through a broad and balanced educational path.  Then there is the reality of the adult working world where those boxes are often filled to overflowing with many other talented people, and being the precocious kid inside a special box becomes meaningless.  That reality can hit in college too, where there are thousands of brilliant violinists and athletes, thousands of other kids with perfect SAT scores, and the reality of the competition comes as a rude shock.  My ds was fortunate to find his way through college to the job he dreamed of, but I've watched others who dropped out of college and wound up utterly lost and aimless. 

 

Hang in there.  Love those children in front of you and trust yourself to do the very best you can, and that your best is indeed good enough.  

[go_go_gadget]

One thing I've been musing over lately is the possibility that homeschooling allows kids more time to specialize their interests, and as such might let them ''burn through'' specialties more quickly than kids in school might. For instance, my DS9 was really into Egypt from ages 4-7, and learned everything he could short of advanced college material. He's since done the same with mineralogy, having just this week decided that his interest stops at the point where he'd have to learn solid-state physics to continue.

 

Certainly there do exist kids who specialize early and keep that specialty, but most don't, and perhaps the extra time homeschoolers have to pursue their interests allows them to realize earlier that a great interest isn't the same as a career. I've heard many times from people who arrived at university thinking they were heading for one major that they'd had in mind for years, but after getting past the introductory courses in the subject decided that it really wasn't for them after all. Perhaps homeschoolers are more likely to seek out the advanced material on their own, since they're already accustomed to building their own learning experience, rather than waiting for someone to deliver it.

 

Also, you said your daughter was one of the oldest in the group. I find that older children are more likely to appreciate the breadth of career options and likelihood of minds changing than their younger counterparts, because they have more life experience. I don't consider your daughter a late bloomer (at 11! What a conversation!), but realistic and wise.

 

[kiwik]

I always think that a plan for the future is a good thing at high school level is a good thing even if you don't follow it through. I never had an answer to the 'what to you want to be when you grow up' so when I hit school leaving age at 15 (having been miserable at school for 10 years) I had no reason to stay and every reason to leave. So I left.

 

This argument doesn't really apply to home schoolers though.

[Tsuga]

I think having a plan is more an indicator of the ability to decide and single-mindedness than a motivational tool. I think that "going to a four-year college within three years of graduating high school and choosing a major within one year of starting a post-secondary educational path" is sufficient path for many young people who haven't got direction. For accelerated learners, that is. Naturally there will be a different educational paths for hands-on and other learners.

[kiwik]

We do have a slightly different school system so it is useful to have some idea of major when picking subjects for the last couple of years of high school - you could drop maths after year 11 (10th grade) and never do more than general science. Also we don't have a two teir college system either so if you want to do med you have to be ready to compete with a couple of hundred other first year students for the 30 or so spots in second year. The same for law, engineering and vet science. In my family it has generally been the gifted kids who left school early and did nothing. Ten years if excruciating boredom did them in. I am trying to avoid it with my kids but I can't homeschool and I keep getting 'school isn't like it used to be'. This is true but I think for gifted introverts it is actually worse.

[Runningmom80]

I always think it's weird when people ask DS what he wants to be when he grows up.  He's 8!  He has no clue.  Well he started saying "Lego designer" so that people will leave him alone.  "You don't know?  You better figure it out!  How about a scientist?  Or a doctor?"

 

I'm 34 and I still don't know.

 

Obviously, my kids hasn't specialized, and I'm fine with that.  The world is his oyster.

 

 

[SeaConquest]

I was a child who knew what she wanted to "be" early on. I was hyperfocused on achieving that goal -- to the exclusion of a lot of introspection about whether achieving that goal was actually going to make me happy. I was so focused on that singular goal that, when other interesting paths opened up, I didn't take the time to really explore them with an open mind and heart. Ultimately, it was quite painful to realize that I wasn't happy being what I had worked so hard to become. So, even if my children show the kind of passion that I did early on, I would still encourage them to explore other paths and really listen to their inner voice as the ultimate guide (even if that voice meanders along other paths). I found that it was very difficult for me to drown out those outside voices ('you would make such a great doctor, lawyer, scientist, etc.') and really follow your joy.    

[Gratia271]

This is so interesting to me because my daughter (15) is barraged regularly with questions about what she wants to "be".  Maybe it is her philosophical side, but for her how she uses her mind and what she does for compensation one day is just one facet of her personhood.  She takes exception to the question "what do you want to be?"  Her answer is typically, "Myself."

 

If children have a passion for something in particular, that is great and we should nurture that interest.  For my children anyway, they don't appreciate people associating their high ability with some intense action plan delineating their life over the next 10 years.  They would rather been seen as individuals rather than the sum of their academic accomplishments. 

[KarenNC]

My daughter didn't have a "box" at all until she was 11 or 12 (and I worried about that, too, but then I specialize in worrying about everything!). Since then, she has sequential "boxes"-- interior designer, artist, psychologist, photographer, now writer, and the "boxes" will likely continue to change (or at least get slightly different wrapping paper ;) ). I changed my goal 5 times in college, and never actually worked in my major, so I expected this. All of her interests and intentions have been full-on and serious *at the time*---until she discovered something else she liked better. We have supported her in all of these to the best of our ability, limits of our budget, the availability of options, and in balance with the rest of life. 

[wapiti]

 So, even if my children show the kind of passion that I did early on, I would still encourage them to explore other paths and really listen to their inner voice as the ultimate guide (even if that voice meanders along other paths). I found that it was very difficult for me to drown out those outside voices ('you would make such a great doctor, lawyer, scientist, etc.') and really follow your joy.    

 

This is a good thought, practice listening to the inner voice and try to follow the joy.

 

Just today while driving my mother to the airport, she interrupted her catalog of criticism to ask me what I would do differently if I had to do it all over again (to add more to her list?).  I said I might have double-majored in CS or math along with the econ.  ("But you spend too much time on the computer.  You should have been an assistant to a doctor."  gee thanks, law school followed by six children wasn't quite right, eh?)  I remember sobbing in my parents' hotel room the weekend of college graduation because I had no clue what I wanted to do and they kept asking over and over and over - I guess they couldn't offer any suggestions more exciting than accounting because they had no real exposure themselves.  I knew that I enjoyed my CS courses - almost a prehistoric era in CS, with Pascal and COBOL - but I don't know why I never pursued that further.  Where was the self-reflection? Why didn't I talk to a professor or something, at least?

[MamaSprout]

We've discouraged specializing with dd. We allow bunny trails, but reign in when obsessions linger. She a curious kid, so has lots of interest in lots of things. We've committed to a rigorous liberal arts base for now.

 

When she gets into high school, that may change to some extent.

[ebunny]

I might be the lone voice here, but I think it is important to discover one's calling, if you will. Yet, It's also important to keep in mind that everyone goes through life stages and interests might change.

Discovering what I am good at, what my abilities are best suited for, and what are my employable skills is not a handicap. Specialising is good! It helps one to focus, gain rich experience in a field and understand nuances of that area.

The biggest advantage to homeschooling is to help children to find a vocation that is fulfilling. And homeschooling moms have 16-18 years to watch their child blossom. A dear friend who homeschooled her sons through high school mentioned that the trap we moms( to younger ones) fall into is to assume that our child at 8 will not have changed much at 18. Her own children zeroed in on an interest in early high school and developed it by the end of high school. They focused on one major interest and developed it further. They are very happy with their choice.

Having said that, my plan is to help my DD discover the sweet spot between -what her abilities are -and -what she enjoys doing. Right now, she's confused but she'll gain clarity as she gets older.

 

ETA: fixed typos

[quark]

So much wisdom in this thread. The following really stood out for me too.

 

I was a child who knew what she wanted to "be" early on. I was hyperfocused on achieving that goal -- to the exclusion of a lot of introspection about whether achieving that goal was actually going to make me happy. I was so focused on that singular goal that, when other interesting paths opened up, I didn't take the time to really explore them with an open mind and heart. Ultimately, it was quite painful to realize that I wasn't happy being what I had worked so hard to become. So, even if my children show the kind of passion that I did early on, I would still encourage them to explore other paths and really listen to their inner voice as the ultimate guide (even if that voice meanders along other paths). I found that it was very difficult for me to drown out those outside voices ('you would make such a great doctor, lawyer, scientist, etc.') and really follow your joy.    

 

I think ultimately it's "follow your joy" that I will choose no matter what. I've experienced having my joy, my most passionate, ultimate joy, taken away from me at an age where I couldn't control my destiny, an age where I couldn't stand up to my parents and say "please, can't you see how much this means to me?" and with parents, loving though they tried to be, who were clueless about how much I wanted it, and I suspect they would have said no anyway even if I had fought for it tooth and nail. It's heart-wrenching to have your dream taken away from you for reasons that are just so, so unbelievable to me now (I totally blocked it out when I was younger so that I wouldn't grow up festering from the wound).

 

So my objective has always been to follow his joy. DS has always had many, many interests but for a while there I really thought he wanted to specialize in math. He used to say he wanted to be a mathematician all the time...but when I really think about it I remember instances when he also added, to whomsoever chose to continue listening to him, that he also wanted to be an actor, a stand up comedian, a puzzlist, and possibly a psychologist too. These days, he talks a lot about math and physics, and still says he wants to be a research mathematician but he also says he wants to be a writer! And his eyes light up when he is improvising a jazz tune so maybe he wants to consider music too. He is not done growing up yet (whatever growing up means lol). I'm not done growing up yet either...there's so much I want to do still.

 

It's that spark I always look for. Bright eyes. Passion. Engagement. Being in love mind and body with something. It could be something or many things. It just depends on the person. The girl who said she wants to be a violinist or Olympic athlete, etc? Good for her! The girl who says she wants x, y, z? Awesome for her too! The time may come to have to make a decision but why does that have to be the end of it?

 

ETA: I guess I want to say, no, you are not doing your DD a disservice by allowing her to be herself and keeping her love of learning burning like this. We worry when our kids specialize and we worry when our kids don't specialize...there's always something to worry about eh?

ETA2: I'm trying to think of someone well known who specialized as kid...not sure I can think of anyone right now...maybe Andrew Wiles? And I think of someone like Feynman who was very much into science from young but also did so many different things with joyful abandon like learning a new musical instrument, or cracking safes. Is/Was one happier than the other? Is/Was one more successful? So many other factors influence their lives too no?
 

[Arcadia]

When my older was in public school kindergarten, each child did a poster of "when I grow up". He wrote astronaut by the way. Many times acquaintances, doctors and dentists has made small talk by asking my kids what they want to be when they grow up.

Maybe the other children are asked so often that they have a stock answer/"prepared script" in their head.

 

As for people who specialised early, all I can think of is music composers like Mozart, Bach, sportspersons like John McEnroe, Mary Lou Retton. Maybe they are happy, maybe not.

 

In the UK style of education where specialization is earlier, as long as the sciences are done for the GCE A levels, doors are still wide open. By opting not to do Biology in 11-12th grade, the only door I closed was to medicine, dentistry and pharmacy. There is no pre-med, undergrads go directly to Medicine school for MBBS.

[ebunny]

 

I think ultimately it's "follow your joy" that I will choose no matter what.

 

 

 

Lovely!

Just wanted to add that pursuing 'joyful work' need not be binary.

 

If the goal is to be a multifaceted human being, I can follow one of my many joys to earn a living, and simultaneously pursue other joys as hobbies, iykwim. It does not have to be "either-or". I could be a violinist but I could earn my living through practicing accounting. Maybe it's the pragmatist in me? :tongue_smilie:

[lewelma]

We worry when our kids specialize and we worry when our kids don't specialize...there's always something to worry about eh?

 

 

 

Isn't this the truth! 

 

I have a specialist and a generalist.  And the generalist feels pressure to specialize (not from us!).  I actually work hard to remind my specialist boy that even though he is specializing in maths, that path leads to so MANY options - economics, biology, physics, investment banking, cryptography, meteorology, pure maths -- and that he should not expect to have a clue what he wants to do with his maths until he has sampled all the different maths out there!  However, last month, we had a friend who wanted to know *what* career my ds would choose to do with his maths.  And was *very* critical of him (in front of him) that he did not know.  So really, you can't win.

 

For my generalist, we have focused on how wonderful that he loves everything! We want him to believe that being a generalist has its own benefits with the synergistic interaction of knowledge helping with the study of any field.  He has focused on what work conditions he wants - working with people, in a decision making role, regular hours so he has time with his family, etc. 

 

My dad's career has had many twists and turns and is an excellent role model for both my boys.  My dad was a heart surgeon for 2 years after his residency before moving into administration of hospitals. He had an MD and a PhD and went back to university for a masters in hospital administration.  After running hospitals and then the VA system, he moved to running a medical school system for a public university, then to being the Health and Human Services Secretary for that state, and then to being a professor teaching the cadaver classes and classes in public health in his 70s. Finally, in his 80s he plans to write books!  So yes, he specialized in health, but in the end he was a huge generalist.  Kids need to know that focusing in a very specific field (like heart surgery) is NOT a dead-end.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

[MinivanMom]

First of all, in response to the bolded, goodness no!  You are NOT doing her a disservice because she doesn't have a single box or because she doesn't speak of herself as being specifically and only an "x".   No doubt others who heard her talk were impressed by her enjoyment of and interest in a broad range of subjects.  

 

Some of what you heard may be the vocabulary these girls are surrounded by in brick and mortar schools.  They likely are immersed in the mindset that you have to strive to "be" something rather than the more typical homeschool culture where the journey, the joy of discovery and love of learning is itself the goal.  Some of these girls may well have that competitive drive for a sport or an instrument, but I'm guessing most of them are simply following a well rehearsed script. And we all do it to other adults -- that one is a professor, or engineer or surgeon or musician or mechanic, etc.  Its one of the things I miss about the homeschool community now that I'm an empty nester.  Homeschool parents, to me at least, are so much more than just a career, they are each a collection of talents and hobbies and knowledge, interesting people to get to know.

 

 

Thank you. Yes, I think some of what I reacted to was probably just schoolish language. My daughter is the only homeschooler in the group, and she definitely doesn't have a pat answer for what she wants to "be". This is also an unusual group of girls. We live in an affluent, techy area so there are lots of bright, high-achieving kids, and I would guess that several of the girls in this group are highly gifted. It gives dd a wonderful peer group, but the overall atmosphere can be very achievement oriented. I want to feel confident enjoying the journey and encouraging dd to explore her many interests, but it's easy to worry too.

[MinivanMom]

I was a child who knew what she wanted to "be" early on. I was hyperfocused on achieving that goal -- to the exclusion of a lot of introspection about whether achieving that goal was actually going to make me happy. I was so focused on that singular goal that, when other interesting paths opened up, I didn't take the time to really explore them with an open mind and heart. Ultimately, it was quite painful to realize that I wasn't happy being what I had worked so hard to become. So, even if my children show the kind of passion that I did early on, I would still encourage them to explore other paths and really listen to their inner voice as the ultimate guide (even if that voice meanders along other paths). I found that it was very difficult for me to drown out those outside voices ('you would make such a great doctor, lawyer, scientist, etc.') and really follow your joy.    

 

Thank you for sharing this. I love the phrase "follow your joy" and the idea of listening to your inner voice.

 

I've been thinking of it more as a continuum with the closed box on one end and the meandering undergrad with 200+ credits and no degree in sight at the other end. Here I am trying to guide my child down the middle without actually having too much influence.

 

This is going to be my new guide: listen to your inner voice and follow your joy. Maybe their joy is continuing to explore and maybe it's starting to focus on one passion, but as long as they are listening to that inner voice, then it will be okay.

[MinivanMom]

 

 

ETA: I guess I want to say, no, you are not doing your DD a disservice by allowing her to be herself and keeping her love of learning burning like this. We worry when our kids specialize and we worry when our kids don't specialize...there's always something to worry about eh?

 

 

Isn't that the truth? Now I'm wondering whether my daughter's many interests made anyone else worry that their child was only focused on one thing.

[lewelma]

Isn't that the truth? Now I'm wondering whether my daughter's many interests made anyone else worry that their child was only focused on one thing.

 

:lol:

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son has settled on saying, "I do not know what I want to be when I grow up, but right now, I'm trying to save the world."  We do less of the "when I grow up" and more of the "right now..."  But my son is an extreme long range planner.  He has been thinking about who he wants to become since he was very young, though very little has been career oriented.  I knew where I wanted to go to college at 6.  Some people are long term, very big picture thinkers.  As a society we tend to put a lot of judgment into things.  As if somehow long range planning is a good thing, yet embracing supposedly whimsical enjoyments are trifles. 

 

We get one life - a mere 80-ish years if we are lucky.  Why on earth should anyone limit themselves to a life that doesn't suit them? Our lives turn out how they turn out.  So let some kids plan.  Let others fly at whatever it is that gives them joy and passion.  Neither is more right (regardless of what society seems to want to tell us).   More power to the kids who worry less about what that is going to look like and are just busy doing it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of mine has always claimed to know what he wants to do.  The other no.  I have never known what I want to do.  I'm rather envious that some people know at a young age.  I guess part of my problem is I never had any examples in my life.  That said, I would not necessarily take what a young kid says about this as a final decision.  It's that at the moment that is their passion.  I never really had a specific passion. 

 

 

[Tsuga]

 

I've been thinking of it more as a continuum with the closed box on one end and the meandering undergrad with 200+ credits and no degree in sight at the other end. Here I am trying to guide my child down the middle without actually having too much influence.

 

Okay, well that's not possible if you don't pay for the credits, though. Don't co-sign a FAFSA without a major declared at the end of the second year--there are limits to these things.

 

I am in complete agreement that you simply cannot finance endless exploration at a four-year-university, but there are other ways to explore. Encourage the kid to take time off and get an internship or take a job in a related field or in the mailroom if she isn't sure. For the love of all that is holy do not do 200 credits just to rule out underwater basket weaving.

 

[MinivanMom]

Okay, well that's not possible if you don't pay for the credits, though. Don't co-sign a FAFSA without a major declared at the end of the second year--there are limits to these things.

 

I am in complete agreement that you simply cannot finance endless exploration at a four-year-university, but there are other ways to explore. Encourage the kid to take time off and get an internship or take a job in a related field or in the mailroom if she isn't sure. For the love of all that is holy do not do 200 credits just to rule out underwater basket weaving.

 

 

I always use the 200+ credits as my go-to example of too much meandering, because I actually knew a guy in college who reached the 200 mark. He was on year 7 or 8 of college and had changed majors umpteen times. I'm not sure how it was allowed, but I do remember that the university was requiring him to come in for academic counseling every semester. I have no idea how he was paying for it. He was a very interesting guy, though, with a crazy number of interests beyond even the academic meandering: rock-climbing, spelunking, bagpiping, etc. I sometimes wonder where he wound up in the world.

[Dmmetler]

I always use the 200+ credits as my go-to example of too much meandering, because I actually knew a guy in college who reached the 200 mark. He was on year 7 or 8 of college and had changed majors umpteen times. I'm not sure how it was allowed, but I do remember that the university was requiring him to come in for academic counseling every semester. I have no idea how he was paying for it. He was a very interesting guy, though, with a crazy number of interests beyond even the academic meandering: rock-climbing, spelunking, bagpiping, etc. I sometimes wonder where he wound up in the world.

My undergrad school had a BUS degree-Bachelor's of University Studies. It was conferred after X credits with no more than Y completion of any one degree (I think that it was something like hitting 180 without being 75% of he way through a degree-it was a LOT. The wording was such that a kid who was triple majoring or something but making progress consistently and on target to graduating wouldn't trigger it). There actually was one guy who graduated with me with one-he quite literally got called into his advisor's office mid-way through the semester and was told "by the way, you're graduating".

[Dmmetler]

I always use the 200+ credits as my go-to example of too much meandering, because I actually knew a guy in college who reached the 200 mark. He was on year 7 or 8 of college and had changed majors umpteen times. I'm not sure how it was allowed, but I do remember that the university was requiring him to come in for academic counseling every semester. I have no idea how he was paying for it. He was a very interesting guy, though, with a crazy number of interests beyond even the academic meandering: rock-climbing, spelunking, bagpiping, etc. I sometimes wonder where he wound up in the world.

My undergrad school had a BUS degree-Bachelor's of University Studies. It was conferred after X credits with no more than Y completion of any one degree (I think that it was something like hitting 180 without being 75% of he way through a degree-it was a LOT. The wording was such that a kid who was triple majoring or something but making progress consistently and on target to graduating wouldn't trigger it). There actually was one guy who graduated with me with one-he quite literally got called into his advisor's office mid-way through the semester and was told "by the way, you're graduating".

[lewelma]

Well, my dad has an MD, a PhD in anatomy, a MA in hospital administration, a BA in some sort of general studies, and a DMin.  I might add, done in that order because he was accepted into med school before he finished his bachelors.  The last degree he finished at age 68. :001_smile:   Some people just like to learn!

[EndOfOrdinary]

For all the people whom I knew that change their majors over and over, accumulated all the credits, constantly reinvented the wheel there was something much deeper going on than a love of learning.  You can learn anywhere.  It actually had much more to do with them having a fear of finishing, fear of failure, fear of commitment, self sabotage.  It was about a personal struggle not a career path.

 

I cannot imagine a person not knowing what they would want to do at least in some capacity by the second year of college.  I do not mean that the life choice cannot change dramatically as a person experiences new things - having multiple jobs in various stages of life is now the norm.  More so that I do not think it is a concern which comes from education.  This is a concern which is rooted in educating the whole person. 

 

My education is in teaching science and mathematics.  It was a career which was enjoyable and I could return there.  However, with all my son's non profit work I am realizing how much I enjoy being a personal assistant or event coordinator.  It is actually really fun and my personality shines.  Experience has now shown me another direction to go, but I did not stop my investment in the first direction.  By the second year in college, if people allow themselves to have experiences, they can pick a direction and enjoy it.  Later, they can pick another one.  It is following through that is important, not direction.  If a person follows through, then they merely build a life rather than thousands of disconnected, stifled jaunts.

[lewelma]

I think it can be hard for some people to pick.  Our society gives young people very little to no experience in different jobs possibilities.  So it is like a shot in the dark trying to imagine a job and pick a major.  I was a computer science major, then cross-cultural literary studies (or whatever it was called), then biology.  In the last year I tacked on education.  Honestly, it is education I am most interested in, and it took me 3 full years of university studies to figure it out. 

 

It is so much easier for kids like my oldest, who have a speciality at a young age.  He has direction.  My younger, he wouldn't have a clue and I don't expect him to for a while. But my older did by his age, and he liked that sense of security -- a sense of I know where he fit in this world.

 

+++

 

I will have to say, that I am getting very confused by where to put comments on each thread.  So sorry if this one should have been on the other thread.  I have one specialist and one generalist kid, so I'm getting mixed up! :001_smile:

[jar7709]

I've not jumped into these threads because I'm not sure where my kids fall on the specialist/generalist continuum.  :)  They definitely have strong leanings, but are also interested in other things.  But, I'm chiming in now because I was a generalist who thought I was a specialist as a teen, because that's what the adults wanted.  Now, I do not think being a generalist is necessarily a disadvantage.  I went into college thinking pre-med.  I quickly discovered that wasn't really my calling, and luckily, the college I attended allowed for a little experimentation and hybrid majors.  I finished almost on time (took me an extra quarter to pass some major exams) but with a combined B.A. (yes, BA, not BS, lots of humanities required at my liberal arts alma mater) in geology and chemistry and a minor in history.  I continued hybrid studies in grad school, and having knowledge in a variety of things has given me an edge and a niche in my professional career.  So, speaking from my personal life, generalists might not need to "pick" or force themselves into a specialty, as long as they diligently pursue that knowledge of whatever and learn how to make that breadth of knowledge mean something.  Modern Renaissance men and women are in high demand.  

[SKL]

My gifted kid doesn't specialize either.

 

To the point of whether it's a disadvantage to not know what your career is going to be by the age of 10, I don't think so.  So many people change direction during the college years, I honestly would rather they not be too invested in the path they *think* they are going to take.  If it is all their individual motivation, that's fine, I would support it up to a point, but I would not push it.