never getting out of minimum wage and not being able to live on it

[bettyandbob]

perhaps this woman had odd choices in hobbies (I do know of people who spent large amounts of money supporting an interest in Micheal Jackson, much more than described here). She did manage the money she had and didn't have debt (maybe I missed that). I don't understand how you work round the clock literally and be counted to come in when you are off all the time and never get promoted out of minimum wage.

 

Anyone who thinks "I dug myself out 20 years ago, so people can do it today" has no idea that today people are just trapped. It's just sad.

 

having trouble with links at this computer. The story is called FROM JOB TO JOB TO JOB, A LIFE LIVED__AND LOST.

 

 

abcnews.go.com/us/wirestory/job-job-job-life-lived-lost-26482598

 

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I don't think managers call you round all the time to pick up shifts unless you've picked up some skills. Employers don't want to help people move up or give them the opportunity to move up.

 

Are you aware of what the economics of Portugal are. Portugal is truly a dying economy.

[LucyStoner]

She invested in others a lot. Like so many women, she seems to have invested less into herself than she did into others.

 

One thing I noted is that she expressed concern for her managers. More than her employers cared about her, which is a common strategy for a chain low wage, service employer. Engender a sense of responsibility from the employee without having much concern or responsibility for the employee.

[Bootsie]

If I were a manager who was on vacation and received a call from an employee that they needed time off to fly to California for Michael Jackson's funeral, I would not view this person as responsible or committed to their job.

[Joanne]

She invested in others a lot. Like so many women, she seems to have invested less into herself than she did into others.

 

One thing I noted is that she expressed concern for her managers. More than her employers cared about her, which is a common strategy for a chain low wage, service employer. Engender a sense of responsibility from the employee without having much concern or responsibility for the employee.

 

I know you know this, LucyStoner, but it is common to pathologize what is known as women's ways of relating, relationship building, and operating in life.

 

Essentially, we blame women (call them co-dependent or some other slam) when they act the way we have culturalized them to act.

 

Or we call them a bitch when they act like men are culturalized to act.

 

Brief link:

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-ethics/

[marbel]

I don't know... it's a sad and complex story.  Easy to say someone should have done this or that after the fact, based on a news story. 

 

But I did see a lot of red flags in the article.  Leaving home in Portugal and going to NJ without a plan. The obsession with Michael Jackson.  Being so grief-stricken over his death that she could not work and had to go to his funeral.  Yearly trips from NJ to CA.  Trying to support (help support?) a boyfriend and his kids when she couldn't support herself.   And of course the article can't mention everything but I didn't see a lot about parental guidance and involvement.  

 

I am not sure that this is an indication that people have to be trapped in minimum wage jobs. 

 

 

[bettyandbob]

If I were a manager who was on vacation and received a call from an employee that they needed time off to fly to California for Michael Jackson's funeral, I would not view this person as responsible or committed to their job.

 

So someone who is working two fulltime shifts a day (I count 16 hours there) plus extra on weekends cannot ask for days off for the vacation of their choice?!

 

You are just supposed to work until you die. And be judged on how you spend time off.

 

There was another point where she took 3 days and cut that short because a manager called.

 

It says nothing about how managers noticed her willingness to always come in and decided to offer to help her get further within the organization--which is what used to happen.

[Jenny in Florida]

This is a sad story, no doubt. However, I don't see it entirely as a tale of dastardly employers.

 

This woman made a lot of choices that weren't calculated to help her get ahead.

 

She apparently wanted to be lots of things: a beautician, a police officer, an actress, Michael Jackson's wife. However, there's no indication in this article that she took any steps necessary to pursue any of those dreams beyond having some photos taken and going to NY to "seek auditions." We know nothing about her educational background from this article, either.

 

She had a job at a bakery in NJ, where she was "a dedicated worker, well-liked on the afternoon shift." However, when she met a guy online and took a second job to support his children, she began coming in late to the first job and eventually had to leave. She apparently invited the boyfriend to move to NJ with her, found him an apartment and paid his rent.

 

Her friends say they don't know why she worked so much or why she didn't try to get a different job.

 

She also might not have needed to work so much if she hadn't spent quite as much on discretionary stuff:

 

She gave cash and gift cards to friends regularly, bought things for homeless people she met and fed not only her own pets but most of the neighborhood strays.

 

She traveled annually with a group of friends to visit Michael Jackson's grave.

 

She sounds like a lovely person, and it's awful that she died the way she did and as young as she did. However, this doesn't look like a simple case of a woman with the odds stacked against her struggling to get ahead.

[LucyStoner]

I know you know this, LucyStoner, but it is common to pathologize what is known as women's ways of relating, relationship building, and operating in life.

 

Essentially, we blame women (call them co-dependent or some other slam) when they act the way we have culturalized them to act.

 

Or we call them a bitch when they act like men are culturalized to act.

 

Brief link:

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-ethics/

I am not blaming her. Certainly not like a previous poster did.

 

I put more into the needs of my sons, niece and nephew than I do into myself. That isn't me being victimized, it's me doing what needs to be done for the people that I love. As a woman, I am certainly socialized to do that but accepting that role, doing that work is my own choice.

 

This is not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but it can be a good AND bad thing.

 

I think giving of ourselves is worthy, and says a lot more about a person's worth than their wages. What you are responding to in my post was meant more as a compliment than an indictment.

 

It is sad that she died so young. Her life has value regardless of the number of zeros in her pay checks.

[marbel]

Never mind. 

[Cinder]

I thought it was odd that her boyfriend wanted her to move to PA but she didn't want to leave DD because there might not be someone to cover her shifts. :confused:

 

It's just a sad story. She gave to everyone else, even the cats, and had nothing left to care for herself. :crying:

[Joanne]

I am not blaming her. Certainly not like a previous poster did.

 

I put more into the needs of my sons, niece and nephew than I do into myself. That isn't me being victimized, it's me doing what needs to be done for the people that I love. As a woman, I am certainly socialized to do that but accepting that role, doing that work is my own choice.

 

This is not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but it can be a good AND bad thing.

 

I think giving of ourselves is worthy, and says a lot more about a person's worth than their wages or wealth. What you are responding to in my post was meant more as a compliment than an indictment.

 

It is sad that she died so young. Her life has value regardless of the number of zeros in her pay checks.

 

{{hugs}} I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing with and expanding your thought. :)

[LucyStoner]

Sorry Joanne, it's just before 9am and I've been up long enough to care for sick sons, cook breakfast, workout and take an online proctored exam for my accounting degree. So my reading comprehension skillz are thusly lowered. Oh, and believe me I am super familiar with the phenomena of being a bitch just for not being all super fly femme. :P

[SKL]

Frankly, it sounds to me like she was mentally ill.  Or maybe she was just trying really hard to find herself.

 

She died an accidental death like many people do, at all income levels.

 

I also think that 32 is not old enough to say she spent a whole life working minimum wage.  Given some more time, she might have ended up in a much better place.  I think a lot of people work their fingers to the bone and pull all-nighters at that age.  I know I did.

[Desert Strawberry]

 I got the impression that the writer wanted to paint a picture of a martyr. There is so much emphasis on her giving and self-sacrifice, with little balanced, factual information. It's hard to draw conclusions from so few, clearly biased details. This article isn't about her work history. It's about what a giver she was. We can't know how accurate that is or what her motives and circumstances were.

[LucyStoner]

Ok, I am just going to say it. It is sad she died young. She's two years younger than me. It's awful that she died in an accident like that.

 

It is not necessarily sad to die poor.

 

Poverty does not mean nothing but misery.

 

Dying poor is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Yes, it poses challenges and I wish that she would have had more reasonable compensation for the number of hours she was working. I wish that she'd had the motivation and opportunity to work towards one of her dreams and that she got more support from her social network and family than she seems to have received ( at least while alive). It seems there was some distance between her and her dad and it also seems like her friends and old boyfriend were pretty ok taking things from her.

 

She did a lot of things with her limited amount of money that people are picking apart. But so what if she spent her discretionary income on being a MJ fangirl, charity and supporting her boyfriend? Those are things that she, like all of us, gets to decide. If I never bought tents for homeless people or wrote checks to charities, I'd have a lot more money in the bank. I'd also have more money if I stopped buying music and going roller skating but ha ha ha if that will ever happen.

[LucyStoner]

I got the impression that the writer wanted to paint a picture of a martyr. There is so much emphasis on her giving and self-sacrifice, with little balanced, factual information. It's hard to draw conclusions from so few, clearly biased details. This article isn't about her work history. It's about what a giver she was. We can't know how accurate that is or what her motives and circumstances were.

How would you conclude merely that there is little balanced or factual information?

 

Yes, the author is making a point, much the same as any post on this thread, but that doesn't mean the facts are incorrect. I would hope the journalist's employer fact checks their stuff.

[SKL]

Every so often, over the years, I have wondered what people would say about me in my obit / put on my gravestone (assuming I merit a gravestone).  Sometimes I find it motivating to think about what kind of person I want to be remembered as.

 

I think it's a good idea to give when you can.  Aside from feeling good and right, it probably increases the chances that someone will help you if you get in a bind.  Maybe.  It's hard to know how much is too much to give when you have your own bills.  I always just went with my gut, and it never did me wrong (so far).

 

I agree that there isn't likely to be balance in a story about a person who was pretty much unknown until she died.  People generally don't speak ill of the dead, so we're only getting one side of things.

[Desert Strawberry]

The facts presented are cherry-picked for certain effect. The only facts we know about her work history is that she put in an excessive number of hours at a low paying job. We don't know if she was a dedicated worker, if she was competent and capable, if she did the bare minimum, if she pursued advancement, or not. We just know she was there. 

 

We don't know if she was trapped or if her situation was made by her own choices. We just know that she was generous. Maybe to a fault. 

 

I don't see how any conclusions about the conditions or opportunities of the working class can be extrapolated from this piece. That doesn't seem to be the goal. 

[LucyStoner]

Every so often, over the years, I have wondered what people would say about me in my obit / put on my gravestone (assuming I merit a gravestone). Sometimes I find it motivating to think about what kind of person I want to be remembered as.

 

 

Someone once asked me this question in a job interview. It was extremely out of nowhere, the previous question was some technical know-how thingy and then boom, what do you want your epitaph to be. I don't even remember what I said, I got the job so it couldn't have been too awful.

[Joanne]

The problem with this article is that she has some "outlying" components that make her a "bad" prototype for the actual issues involved in being stuck in the low income dynamic. They (like the MJ stuffy) become red herrings to the discussion.

[bettyandbob]

 We don't know if she was a dedicated worker, if she was competent and capable, if she did the bare minimum, if she pursued advancement, or not. We just know she was there. 

 

 

 

We do know her managers frequently asked her to cover other shifts. I have worked lots of places. I've never worked anywhere where managers called incompetent people who did the bare minimum and asked them to do more hours--that just leads to more work for the manager.

[Murphy101]

I don't think managers call you round all the time to pick up shifts unless you've picked up some skills. Employers don't want to help people move up or give them the opportunity to move up.

 

Are you aware of what the economics of Portugal are. Portugal is truly a dying economy.

This. I have a son who works at a grocery store. He was given the title of Produce Manager, but it is really just an excuse for management to treat him like crap. He has ZERO additional authority, but now they can call him all the frikkin time and guilt him into working in his days off. Every. Single. Time. He has put in to use vacation time, he has over 50 hours of PTO due. He has tried four times to take 2 PTO days off and been called in on day one every time. Why does he go in? Bc there is threat of job loss if he doesn't and he needs the job to afford college and other expenses. Like health insurance, which is through them, and by the way eats up over 1/4 of every iddly paycheck. He doesn't even make a $1 over minimum wage. He is by his nature the kind of person who just feels responsible and naturally works hard as a matter of personal pride regardless of the hourly income. Basicly, this makes him a prime target for being taken advantage of by an employer. He is getting tougher about standing up for himself, but a HUGE part of that is his dad and I sitting him down and saying, hey, you are not alone in this. We are family and we are going to be here. Yes you need to work and be a man of integrity, but that doesn't mean you have to take their crap. Look for another job. You are single and have choices. Just hearing that really gave him some relief and confidence to push back at management. But a LOT of young adults do not have that option and there is no one who has their back so to speak to give them confidence. Dh and I were once those young people. You combine that with people who also don't have good examples in their young adult lives of making good decisions? Recipe for a heck of a mess.

 

I also agree with SKL and Lucy. This woman might have come around to see her past errors in judgement and moved up in life if she had had more time. Sadly she didn't. Dying poor happens every single day and it's a requirement of society for some. There's always going to be poor people. Being poor in an of itself does not mean or should not mean living or dying without dignity.

[Bootsie]

So someone who is working two fulltime shifts a day (I count 16 hours there) plus extra on weekends cannot ask for days off for the vacation of their choice?!

 

You are just supposed to work until you die. And be judged on how you spend time off.

 

There was another point where she took 3 days and cut that short because a manager called.

 

It says nothing about how managers noticed her willingness to always come in and decided to offer to help her get further within the organization--which is what used to happen.

I think there is a difference in asking for days off for a vacation of choice and calling up a manager who is on vacation and saying that you need time off.  If I were a manager who was on vacation, I would expect to receive a call from an employee wanting unplanned time off ONLY in an emergency situation.  

[bettyandbob]

I think there is a difference in asking for days off for a vacation of choice and calling up a manager who is on vacation and saying that you need time off.  If I were a manager who was on vacation, I would expect to receive a call from an employee wanting unplanned time off ONLY in an emergency situation.  

 

Except that it was OK for the manager to call her while she was on vacation to come back and cover hours. Perhaps she was modeling the behavior she'd seen in her managers when she called for non emergency time off.  

 

[LibraryLover]

I'm wondering if the DD owners contributed to her funeral.

 

Bit of a derail, but whenever DD comes up, I remember a particular article.

 

I'm not able to C & P, but do a search on The Secret World of the Dunkin Donuts Franchise Kings, first printed in BostonGlobe.com.  (Interestingly, the' kings' in the article are also Portuguese.)

 

It's pretty depressing.

 

 

[SKL]

A lot of people are so insecure that they are afraid to say "no" even though they can.  I tend to be one of them, and certainly was when I was 32.

 

Ironically, it's the people who are not afraid to say "no" and demand what they want who get promotions and raises.  I spent many years being unhappy about this, but it is a fact of life, and I hope my kids deal with it by articulating their needs vs. silently fuming about it.

[FaithManor]

Off topic, and yet related, the two counties east of here have been without 4H program directors for over three years because they require a bachelor's degree, pay for twenty hours, openly state that the job actually takes 35 and hours and do expect the employee to volunteer the other 15 per week, and pay $10.00 an hour no benefits.

 

Substitute teacher pay on an out of profession license which only requires an associate's degree is more than that. CNA' s get $9.00 an hour here and the training is only ten weeks!

 

So, no one is taking these counties up on their offer, but to hear the county commissioners and regional director talk, people should be standing in line for the positions and grateful to be considered. Meanwhile, their programs tank more and more each year.

 

Feudalism...I have seen more stories like Martha's son than I care to count.

 

My husband routinely works an extra 100 -125 hours a month on threat of dismissal if he doesn't for no pay raises or bonuses, no comp time. He is salaried and when NAFTA went through the IT companies lobbied successfully for IT workers to be exempted from fair labor practices so it is perfectly legal. He finally told his manager that he will no longer have his work phone turned on from 11pm to 7:30 am because we weren't' getting any sleep. He was called non stop to solve all of GM' s IT problems. It should be criminal! They got snarky about it, but we decided his health came first and if he got fired, some other company would likely pick him up. He does have options and that is something so many low wage workers simply do not have.

 

There are many employers that treat their employees as serfs.

[Jenny in Florida]

She did a lot of things with her limited amount of money that people are picking apart. But so what if she spent her discretionary income on being a MJ fangirl, charity and supporting her boyfriend? Those are things that she, like all of us, gets to decide. If I never bought tents for homeless people or wrote checks to charities, I'd have a lot more money in the bank. I'd also have more money if I stopped buying music and going roller skating but ha ha ha if that will ever happen.

 

I know for sure that I'd have a lot more money if I hadn't "blown" it on extracurriculars for my kids and doing my own personal version of buying tents for homeless people. Those are my choices, and I own them. I don't resent or blame employers for not paying me more so that I can do those things in comfort. 

 

I want to make it crystal clear here that I am in no way "blaming" this woman for her own death, and I am not "picking apart" her choices. I've said I think she sounds like a lovely person. It's sad that she died the way she did. I just think, given what we know of her life and choices from this one article, that she may not be an exemplar of the striving but downtrodden minimum-wage worker. 

[Desert Strawberry]

We do know her managers frequently asked her to cover other shifts. I have worked lots of places. I've never worked anywhere where managers called incompetent people who did the bare minimum and asked them to do more hours--that just leads to more work for the manager.

 

 

I've never worked retail, food service, or minimum wage. I was a domestic and I had a skilled position at 17.  But as I understand it, in these types of positions, the greatest need is have enough bodies to cover the shifts. Not every food service worker is highly dedicated or highly skilled. Even in a skilled position, there are plenty of people who are just punching the clock and putting in their time. I don't imagine that changes at the lower end of the spectrum. 

 

The article mentions that she worked a a lot of hours. That could be because she was a highly dedicated individual. But it also mentioned that she napped in the back room during her shifts, and she jokingly refused to help coworkers when asked. I've worked long hours and multiple jobs. I get that. But napping at work isn't something I have ever even attempted. Napping on breaks, yes. 

 

I mean, am I the only one who was worked with less than stellar coworkers? The ones that show up and essentially take up space? I don't imagine that her bosses were necessarily calling her in because she's a super awesome worker. I'd assume that they were calling her in because someone has to unlock the doors and man the counter, and clearly whoever was supposed to do that didn't show up. The alternative is to leave the shop closed for the day or head over themselves and fill in. Maybe she was Super Employee. Maybe she wasn't. We can't assume that because she showed up, she must have been great at her job. 

 

I'm not in any way attempting to disparage this woman. Obviously her life was tough. She sounds like a nice person who worked a lot and gave more. Sleep deprivation is no joke. I have definite concerns that someone at DD should have been aware that she was putting in too many hours. I'm just not ready to draw conclusions about the state of our economy or the ability of any given worker to move up in this particular area, or judge this woman's particular financial choices based on a human interest piece. 

[bettyandbob]

Off topic, and yet related, the two counties east of here have been without 4H program directors for over three years because they require a bachelor's degree, pay for twenty hours, openly state that the job actually takes 35 and hours and do expect the employee to volunteer the other 15 per week, and pay $10.00 an hour no benefits.

 

Substitute teacher pay on an out of profession license which only requires an associate's degree is more than that. CNA' s get $9.00 an hour here and the training is only ten weeks!

 

So, no one is taking these counties up on their offer, but to hear the county commissioners and regional director talk, people should be standing in line for the positions and grateful to be considered. Meanwhile, their programs tank more and more each year.

 

Feudalism...I have seen more stories like Martha's son than I care to count.

 

My husband routinely works an extra 100 -125 hours a month on threat of dismissal if he doesn't for no pay raises or bonuses, no comp time. He is salaried and when NAFTA went through the IT companies lobbied successfully for IT workers to be exempted from fair labor practices so it is perfectly legal. He finally told his manager that he will no longer have his work phone turned on from 11pm to 7:30 am because we weren't' getting any sleep. He was called non stop to solve all of GM' s IT problems. It should be criminal! They got snarky about it, but we decided his health came first and if he got fired, some other company would likely pick him up. He does have options and that is something so many low wage workers simply do not have.

 

There are many employers that treat their employees as serfs.

 

I think it's a pervasive problem. I think once you get into low wage jobs you are simply in survival mode. If you have family support that's great, but if you are on your own supporting yourself it appears to be an endless deadend cycle.

 

Perhaps some people think its bad the woman left Portugal--it was never home for her, based on the age description her father would be at least 90 today so whatever business he started in that bad economy probably isn't there. And likely the relationship with her father was not good. So no family support to learn the basic skills you need for survival. That's rough. I think there are a lot of people in that situation. I think without a good support system helping you learn where opportunities are and where they aren't these low wage jobs are just cycle that will not break.

 

Someone asked if DD paid for the funeral. The article said her friends in the Micheal Jackson fan club raised money for it.

 

[Bootsie]

Except that it was OK for the manager to call her while she was on vacation to come back and cover hours. Perhaps she was modeling the behavior she'd seen in her managers when she called for non emergency time off.  

 

If this is the part of the article you are referring to  "On their last day together, a manager from one of the doughnut shops called Fernandes to ask her to come in to work, he said." I can not conclude from that it was OK for the manager to call her while she was on vacation to come back and cover hours.  Had she requested vacation time for the three days she was gone?  Was the manager trying to help her out by offering her more hours to work?  Maybe there was an emergency, like a family member of one of the employees had been hospitalized, and the manager was trying to help out.

 

There are a lot of details about her options and her choices that are not provided in the article.  But, it appears to me that she was an adult making choices about how much she wanted to work and how she wanted to spend her money.  They are not choices that I would personally make, but they were her choices.  I have known of medical doctors putting in over 80 hours per week, sleeping in their cars, etc.  I wouldn't make that choice either.  

[LucyStoner]

 

I know for sure that I'd have a lot more money if I hadn't "blown" it on extracurriculars for my kids and doing my own personal version of buying tents for homeless people. Those are my choices, and I own them. I don't resent or blame employers for not paying me more so that I can do those things in comfort.

 

I want to make it crystal clear here that I am in no way "blaming" this woman for her own death, and I am not "picking apart" her choices. I've said I think she sounds like a lovely person. It's sad that she died the way she did. I just think, given what we know of her life and choices from this one article, that she may not be an exemplar of the striving but downtrodden minimum-wage worker.

Was there any indication from the article that Maria Fernandes blamed her employer?

 

I don't think I have said anything to indicate that she's an exemplar of "striving but downtrodden".

 

Sometimes people don't strive. That's not necessarily a bad thing if it is a choice they are ok with.

 

Her "managers" likely are making a couple of dollars more an hour, if that. DD is operating in the framework of our system and legal requirements.

[Desert Strawberry]

Was there any indication from the article that Maria Fernandes blamed her employer?

 

I don't think I have said anything to indicate that she's an exemplar of "striving but downtrodden".

 

Sometimes people don't strive. That's not necessarily a bad thing if it is a choice they are ok with.

 

Her "managers" likely are making a couple of dollars more an hour, if that. DD is operating in the framework of our system and legal requirements.

 

 

OP did imply that this is a standard case of striving but downtrodden. I think a few of us are responding to that. 

[LucyStoner]

I'm wondering if the DD owners contributed to her funeral.

 

 

I think her MJ fangirl club paid for the funeral. At least, that's what I recall from the first time I read this story (not today.)

[swellmomma]

We have staff we call in all the time at the fast food place I work who will not be promoted any time soon.  They are more than willing to come in anytime, they are fun and happy people, they would love to be promoted but their own actions at work prevent that.  Being happy is one thing but they goof around, and act immaturely.  THey are fine enough at the role they have, but they still need reminders nearly every shift to stay on task, to complete a task (like restocking)etc. They do not self initiate things, if they finish a task and there is no customers they stand around chatting rather than looking around for more to do etc.  They are great people and do enjoy their jobs, but they are just not ready to be supervisors.  We only do raises every 6 months, and it isn't much 5-10 cents if your reviews have been good.   That said, someone who is dedicated and hard working and can be left to just do what needs to be done will be promoted with a hefty raise.  They have actually phoned me and asked if I would work f/t with the goal to promote me to supervisor within a few months.  Unfortunately they can no longer afford me, now that I am back in childcare, got a promotion there and returned to college to update my skills which means a raise when I graduate.  I still work at the fast food place but only once a week at this point.  

So yeah people can be called in for all kinds of jobs and still not be promoted out of the basic roles.  In the end it still comes down to work ethic.  One can complete their job but still show a lack of the work ethic necessary to being a supervisor.  If that is your goal , to move upwards in the company then you need to figure out why that hasn't happened and make the changes necessary.  For several people at work it simply means take their jobs more seriously and if they did that within a few months they would be promoted.  I have that directly from the manager who really wants to promote them but they are not quite there yet (she and I were friends even before I started working there, and she was/is the only one in the town that would hiremy mentally ill/lon.  It is unlikely without major changes in how he cope he would never be promotes in any job, he would be willing to work, and do all he needs to at work (if given a list), but is too unstable to rise above that.  

 

I know someone else that works p/t in an educational supply store.  SHe earns minimum wage only but does not increase her hours or push to be above minimum wage (and she formerly owned her own businesses so could earn more), but doing so would cause her rent to go up (she lives in our equivalent of section 8 housing) and she would not be able to head to the USA to follow actors from the walking dead around and going to conventions etc.  She just got back from spending 18 days there with her oldest son, I am not sure where the other 3 were left (she is a single mom).  She has the potential and ability to work more and get promoted and provide more for kids but won't because it would interfere with her travels and keeping the cheap rent. 

 

There are many reasons why minimum wage workers do not move beyond minimum wage some are things they can control others are things they can't.  It does not good to lament how you are always passed over without taking a hard look at why that is and if the reasons for it are within their own control to change.  It's not a pulling up by the bootstraps at all, it is simply taking a critical look at yourself and determining if there is something more/different you can or should be doing to make your goals a reality.  THat is the same regardless of any goal you set, you have to work for that goal by completing steps towards it, not just declare it like a wish.  For those with factors out of their control (like mental illness, learning disabilities etc) what I would like to see is more supports to them that could help scaffold them into a better wage/role, much like they would get in school to help them succeed.  Or evaluation of how they are doing based on their true ability rather than everyone else so they can get those raises at the same rate as everyone else.  For those that can make the necessary changes if getting raises, or being promoted or finding a better job are goals then they need to formulate the steps to reach that goal and work them rather than hoping it will happen like I hope I will win the lottery.

ETA: on the topic of sleep deprivation I live it, I average maybe 3 hours of sleep a night, and yet I still never sleep on the job.  Some days like yesterday I work 2 jobs in the same day bouncing back and forth between them, making it an 11 hour day with no break and still I do not sleep on the job.  I am there to work not to sleep.  In fact the lack of sleep got to me enough yesterday that after getting home I had a tantrum like a 2 year old out of sheer frustration at life being so exhausting.  THankfully until mid november there is no extracurriculars on Monday nights.  Those that see my posts on fb know how insanely busy my life is between work, the kids,college etc.  Sleep is for wimps (and prior to starting this much I was already having issues related to chronic fatigue and issues staying awake at the wheel).  Now as long as the coffee is flowing I can function and drive without pulling over for a mini nap (5-10 minutes).  When driving to and from the city I do this mini nap cycle 2-3 times just to be safe.  I now what it like to work around the clock and feel like you are going no where.  Although I make more than minimum wage at my daycare jobs, due to the expenses I choose to have (extracurrics for kids, braces for dd15) it feels more like I am a hamster on a wheel as far as income goes.  But I love my jobs and excel at them, and in 2 years I graduate college, and 1 year after that 2 of my kids graduate highschool, and I will still not have much money but I will have more sleep :) .

[Alice]

Ok, I am just going to say it. It is sad she died young. She's two years younger than me. It's awful that she died in an accident like that.

 

It is not necessarily sad to die poor.

 

Poverty does not mean nothing but misery.

 

Dying poor is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Yes, it poses challenges and I wish that she would have had more reasonable compensation for the number of hours she was working. I wish that she'd had the motivation and opportunity to work towards one of her dreams and that she got more support from her social network and family than she seems to have received ( at least while alive). It seems there was some distance between her and her dad and it also seems like her friends and old boyfriend were pretty ok taking things from her.

 

She did a lot of things with her limited amount of money that people are picking apart. But so what if she spent her discretionary income on being a MJ fangirl, charity and supporting her boyfriend? Those are things that she, like all of us, gets to decide. If I never bought tents for homeless people or wrote checks to charities, I'd have a lot more money in the bank. I'd also have more money if I stopped buying music and going roller skating but ha ha ha if that will ever happen.

 

 

OP did imply that this is a standard case of striving but downtrodden. I think a few of us are responding to that. 

 

I felt like the article was somewhat suggesting that the reason she died was because she was so tired from having to work three jobs. Maybe that's just the way I read it after reading the OP's post. OP and article seemed to be implying that she was stuck in poverty despite three jobs and that her lifestyle of working so hard was a direct cause of death. Obviously she could choose to do whatever she wanted with the money she did have, but I think it does argue against the point that somehow she was stuck in that position solely because of inadequate wages and that led to here death. 

[Reefgazer]

Complicated story.  For sure, she had loyalty to her employer, and that didn't seem to be a two-way street, unfortunately.  Plenty of red flags that indicated poor financial judgment in general, though, that may have contributed to her financial hardship (taking on financial responsibility for her boyfriend's entire family, taking on the expense to go to California upon Michael Jackson's daeth, letting everyone borrow her car extensively, packing up and leaving Portugal to show up on someone's doorstep an ocean away without a financial plan, giving away cash she apparently didn't have).  Not judging her at all, because she was an adult who had the right to make her own choices and she may perfectly well have been happy with them.  *shrug*  But her financial choices make her a poor candidate to demonstrate why someone has to work 3 minimum wage jobs to eke out a living. 

[SKL]

I mean, am I the only one who was worked with less than stellar coworkers? The ones that show up and essentially take up space? I don't imagine that her bosses were necessarily calling her in because she's a super awesome worker. I'd assume that they were calling her in because someone has to unlock the doors and man the counter, and clearly whoever was supposed to do that didn't show up. The alternative is to leave the shop closed for the day or head over themselves and fill in. Maybe she was Super Employee. Maybe she wasn't. We can't assume that because she showed up, she must have been great at her job. 

 

I'm not in any way attempting to disparage this woman. Obviously her life was tough. She sounds like a nice person who worked a lot and gave more. Sleep deprivation is no joke. I have definite concerns that someone at DD should have been aware that she was putting in too many hours. I'm just not ready to draw conclusions about the state of our economy or the ability of any given worker to move up in this particular area, or judge this woman's particular financial choices based on a human interest piece. 

 

No, you aren't the only one who has worked with people who have all sorts of questionable habits and yet remain employed.

 

It is also possible that they have a minimum number of people that have to be present during certain shifts (for safety reasons), and it can be any warm body as long as at least one person there has a clue.

 

It is also possible that this lady was the best donut worker that ever lived.

 

We don't know, is the point.

 

I too was wondering if DD should have had some way of knowing an employee was working around the clock on weekends, which is a safety issue no matter who it is.  I have no problem with someone voluntarily working two shifts, especially a person without kids, 3 shifts in one 24-hour day is not OK except in extreme emergency situations.

[SKL]

Didn't they say she was making $36,000 per year?  That is not poverty for a single, childless adult.

[bettyandbob]

Didn't they say she was making $36,000 per year? That is not poverty for a single, childless adult.

But look at the hours she was keeping to earn that. Coupled with where she lived. It's not like she'd be able to get further job training. Even if she cut back on hours a lot of these minimum wage jobs are set up so you can't commit to a night class because you never know what your schedule is until a week before. So, the only thing she knew how to do was to work more hours at the crap job.

[SKL]

But look at the hours she was keeping to earn that. Coupled with where she lived. It's not like she'd be able to get further job training. Even if she cut back on hours a lot of these minimum wage jobs are set up so you can't commit to a night class because you never know what your schedule is until a week before. So, the only thing she knew how to do was to work more hours at the crap job.

 

Maybe.

 

It sounded like she enjoyed her job, though.

 

She wasn't going to starve if she worked less than 3 shifts on weekends, unless there was something else going on that we don't know about.

 

She also lived in a place where there are other jobs available to someone who is 32 with a decent work history.

 

I've pretty much always had 2 or 3 jobs when I didn't have kids.  When I was in full-time college, I worked as many as 60 hours per week.  So I am going to be hard to convince that working a couple of shifts a day is preventing all good things from happening.

 

Also, for many years I made less than minimum wage when my work hours were divided over my salary.  So again ... I don't understand $36,000 being poverty even if you have to work for it.

[LucyStoner]

Someone in NJ claiming no dependents would be taking home under $2400 a month out of a $36k annual wage. I've never lived in New Jersey but I can't figure its easy to support 4 additional people out of that. Nor can I figure you have much time or energy to cook for yourself if you are working 16 hours a day.

 

Honestly the whole working all the time thing (even when she is not supporting a family of 4 besides herself) sounds like workaholism, but as a former workaholic, I do tend to read things that way, lol.

[Elisabet1]

The article said she needed the extra money to support a boyfriend's children, plus other nonessentials. 

 

I don't beleive one gets promoted without having the skills to handle the new job...even at DD. 

 

And she did turn down working in the family business back home in Portugal, plus moving to a less expensive area. She was in a very expensive area; one where singles usually have roommates.

It also mentioned a dog and three cats. She also mentioned "a lot of bills"..for what? The SUV? I rode the bus when I was on minimum wage, and walked where they was no bus. And as much as I wanted a pet, I did not have one. Apparently, she frequently gave out money to others too. Nice that she was giving. But it sounds like she had an issue with money management. And she was not even earning minimum wage. It also mentions extensive gifts she bought for friends and trying to fly to California when Michael Jackson died. I am guessing this is all the tip of the ice berg for her spending habits. Anyone who has the luxury to keep all those pets, buy extensive gifts for others, and fly to CA on a whim because a celebrity died, probably was not making tons of great decisions otherwise, or they had plenty of money. She was buying tons of video games for her boyfriends kids, funding his apartment, and everything else. This is not a case of a poor poor person, not able to support herself despite working three jobs at minimum wage. This is a case of a woman who seemed to prefer working that much and spending a TON. 

[SKL]

I agree that supporting 4 additional people would make it hard, but what was the father of those kids doing?  He must have been doing something, or he should have been.  The whole thing about how she paid their way for everything is strange - not saying it's a lie, because I've been known to give people more money than I spend on myself, but it doesn't sound like a healthy situation.  Certainly not a typical situation for people working two Dunkin Donuts jobs, I don't think.

[plansrme]

Oh my word. OH MY WORD.

 

I can't even.

What? Her boyfriend's children were the responsibility of the BF and the kids' mom(s).

[LucyStoner]

What? Her boyfriend's children were the responsibility of the BF and the kids' mom(s).

Yes, but from the article it is not clear if the BF was working or not or where the mom was. Not everyone has two parents.

 

My niece and nephew are, in theory, the responsibility of my brother and SIL. That doesn't mean that when they can't step up that I don't because after all, it's not my responsibility. Our responsibilities often times extend past our own noses.

[Murphy101]

But look at the hours she was keeping to earn that. Coupled with where she lived. It's not like she'd be able to get further job training. Even if she cut back on hours a lot of these minimum wage jobs are set up so you can't commit to a night class because you never know what your schedule is until a week before. So, the only thing she knew how to do was to work more hours at the crap job.

 

It might very well be like this. It is like this for a LOT of people.

 

Yes, but from the article it is not clear if the BF was working or not or where the mom was. Not everyone has two parents.

My niece and nephew are, in theory, the responsibility of my brother and SIL. That doesn't mean that when they can't step up that I don't because after all, it's not my responsibility. Our responsibilities often times extend past our own noses.

I agree with that, but it usually does not extend to people that aren't family and or not doing their part. (ETA: Their part being doing their best to care for their kids/themselves vs just being abusive turds who need to give custody to someone else.)

 

Honestly this sounds like a story of a woman desperate to be loved and instead was used and taken advantage of. She made many foolish financial and personal life choices for the sake of other people. It seems like it was for all the wrong people who instead of returning the care and devotion, used and abused it.

 

Alas, this is not a problem restricted to poor minimum wage workers. Something tells me she could have won a lottery and it wouldn't have changed her situation or long and she still would have died this way or some similiar way.

 

Which is indeed terribly sad, but not necessarily a poverty low wage issue in general.

 

(ETA2: I don't fault her for her foolish financial or personal life choices. Noting they were foolish is not saying she was a bad person or deserved to be treated badly. Mostly it just means she made a lot of mistakes like all humans do. Sadly she didn't get to learn that, if she ever would have, and it doesn't sound like she had the good fortune to know many people to show her different choices. Which is by far a more sucky statement about society than about her personally.)

 

(ETA3: Further clarification. I don't fault her for loving foolishly. There's a lot to commend for the value of loving foolishly and sacrificially. I do fault all those people around her who used her to her detriment.)

[Magnolia Rain]

Oops. Tried to like a post and wound up with a quoted post. Dang phone.

[LucyStoner]

Martha-

 

While your take on the boyfriend could be totally on, it could also be off. We really don't know, he could be unable to work for some reason. I suspect that your hunch is a least partially on because IIRC in the article they referenced noise complaints of the two of them fighting. If that's indeed the case, she certainly wouldn't be the first or the last person to be financially taken advantage of by an intimate partner.

 

Still, I can understand not wanting kids to suffer, and supporting kids you know even if they aren't family, even when thing are tight for you. We had a boy (unrelated to us) stay with us for an extended time to keep him out of the foster care system while his single mom was in the hospital. I also feed and tutor my niece's best friend who is in a terrible home environment. If she's the sort to buy homeless guys tents, she's probably the sort to do all she can for any kids in need she knows. I don't think helping three children in need, regardless of why they are in need is something that should be dismissed as non-essential. For whatever reason it was essential to her and there are far stupider things that people of all income levels spend money on all the time.