Sending your kids to college (article)

[Brenda in MA]

Here's a recent article on sending your kids to college.

 

Brenda

 

http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/tenuredradical/2014/07/bye-bye-birdies-sending-the-kids-away-to-college/

[MarkT]

excellent, every parent should read this

thank you for sharing

[regentrude]

Many very good points.

But I have one little comment about this:

Half the time when a cell phone goes off in class, it is not a friend or lover making contact, but a parent. Students leave class to return calls to parents because, over time, they have been trained to do that. If they do not, their parents become anxious that “something has happened†and they keep texting or calling until the kid answers. ... You might even want to know your student’s class schedule so you don’t try to contact her while she is in class.

 

Tell your child they should switch their phone OFF when they are in class. Period. It is the student's responsibility to make sure the phone does not interrupt class - not the parent's to not call when the student is in class.

 

ETA: Another comment:

Never insist on speaking to a faculty member, administrator or dean unless you believe your child is in mortal danger. Mortal danger does not include: inexplicable course selection or a choice of major; a bad roommate situation; not being chosen as a starter on whatever team; telling faculty advisors and professors about past learning problems; letting the people in charge know that you and your husband are taking the opportunity of launching the kids to get a divorce (parents often separate when the kids leave, actually); or a grave illness in the family.

 

While I generally agree from the point of view as a college instructor, I think there are exceptions even to this rule. It is one thing for a student mentioning a parent's grave illness to an instructor, and a completely different one for the terminally ill parent coming to campus to be present when the student talks to his professor to try to find a way to accommodate a difficult family situation.

I generally do not talk to parents. But I did talk to the dying father who wanted to make sure I understand the reason for his son's underperformance and depression. So, yes, parents should stay out of it as much as possible. But professors are human and can have understanding for truly exceptional circumstances... if that  makes any sense.

 

[Laurel-in-CA]

Excellent article. We moved away and left our freshman staying with friends of the family in our old home town. Not what we'd planned, but that was the way it worked. I told her *she* should call *me* when she had the opportunity as her school/work/commute schedule was complex & variable. And I would expect the prof to mention no cell phones on in class on the very first day. And I would expect the students to be listening and complying. It's on them.

 

But in her case, the thing we should have planned ahead for more was car problems and alternative transportation methods. Turns out you can't rent a car on your own until you're 21. Luckily she had a network of friends in place and somebody was able to help her.

[FaithManor]

I think the advice was very sound. The only caveat I saw was the issue of minor surgeries. There are many minor surgeries that are vitally necessary to maintain health or prevent future health disasters. Hospitals and specialists dictate when these take place and that cannot always be Christmas and Spring break or summer. I do believe that the student should be able to take letters from the surgeon or gp to a professor and have a respectful conversation about an accomodation or receiving an incomplete with a reasonable deadline to complete the work without penalty for simply having the surgeon say, "The gallstone is impacted and while it may not kill you know, the pain level is too great. It must come out this week!" or whatever. As a former adjunct, I can say I would have been happy to work with the student and especially if that student had already demonstrated maturity and due diligence.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I found Patrick Allitt's book I'm the Teacher, You're the Student to be a good read.  Of course, I was reading it during one of the years I was teaching high school students in coop.

 

He gives vivid examples of students neglecting class attendance and assignments, then expecting that they will still get good grades or have the prof give them special dispensation.

 

I think most professors will understand if a student has to miss class for a legitimate reason.  But a student is also wise to build up that goodwill by being a responsible student.

[Brenda in MA]

I found Patrick Allitt's book I'm the Teacher, You're the Student to be a good read.

I enjoyed this book as well.

 

Brenda

[FaithManor]

 

 

"But a student is also wise to build up that goodwill by being a responsible student."

 

Exactly. Start out the semester on good terms and keep it that way. Once a student has established himself as a conscientious worker and faithful attender, I think most professors are going to be helpful if there is a legitimate health concern.

 

One thing that will help is if parents can assist their child through the later teen years with understanding the medical industry, advocating for themselves, learning to ask the right questions, and understanding their insurance. C's recent hospitalization made me realize  how important this is., and thankful we had been working on this for a couple of years. Thankfully, the ortho surgeon was wonderful and though C is not old enough to legally consent to treatment, the surgeon treated him like an adult, gently and with patience so he would understand everything his dad was signing for and why it was necessary.  The PT has been this way as well. But a couple of nurses and the case manager treated him like he was five! He's a great kid though and was able to respectfully speak up for himself the few times dh wasn't in the room. Whew!

 

Definitely, if your kids are always used to you handling their medical concerns, start training them well before you drop them on campus.

 

On a side note, if you are sending them to campus with a car, give them a crash course on fender benders and such.

[hillfarm]

Given that my student is only 15yo and about to enter cc, this article sets my teeth on edge. I railed against such attitudes when I was a student and my strong sense of independence was a key factor in why we decided to homeschool in the first place.

 

While I completely respect each instructor's right and responsibility to set the policies for their own class, life does not run like a well oiled machine. Things happen. An instructor immobilized with a freshly broken leg would expect a bit of understanding from the students, even though it is not life threatening. So why should a student be shown less respect?

 

Also, regarding the author's comment identifying all mention of a weapon as related to being in mortal danger ("and anything — anything – that has to do with guns, bombs or knives."), how ridiculous. My dd has shot archery, pistol, rifle, and shotgun competitively since she was 9yo. I sincerely hope she will continue to work with youth shooting sports organizations during her college years. We just received word that one of her shooting sports friends won a major national rifle competition today and was awarded a $5000 college scholarship. Discussion of these facts, or her plan to go to the shooting range to practice, or her need to stop by on her way out of town to pick up some ammunition should not be considered a sign of mortal danger to herself or anyone else. She also has participated in an excellent martial arts class and has spent many hours working on how to defend against and protect herself with a knife. These are legal skills that she has learned, and it is her legal right to the freedom of speech to be able to discuss related topics with her friends or instructors. No, my dd will not be taking a gun on campus. But shooting sports and martial arts are a part of her and I won't abide with any school administration putting a gag order on her to prevent her from talking about it.

 

I wish the trend was toward common sense rather than legalism.

[Caroline]

This was an article talking to parents. If my kid suddenly started talking about guns, knives and bombs, it would be a warning sign. For your daughter it wouldn't be. The author isn't saying that students shouldn't talk about those things. He is saying that if your child is talking about that, you might want to check into it. Obviously, if your child is discussing something that is normal for her, it wouldn't be a red flag. For Margaret's kids, it wouldn't be a red flag. (Not that I think Margaret's kids are gun crazy or anything, just that they live a different lifestyle than mine.) For my suburban kids, it would be. The author was not trying to put a gag on your child. I think you misinterpreted what he said.

I had a roommate try to commit suicide. It happens more often than people realize at colleges, especially high stress ones.
 

Given that my student is only 15yo and about to enter cc, this article sets my teeth on edge. I railed against such attitudes when I was a student and my strong sense of independence was a key factor in why we decided to homeschool in the first place.

While I completely respect each instructor's right and responsibility to set the policies for their own class, life does not run like a well oiled machine. Things happen. An instructor immobilized with a freshly broken leg would expect a bit of understanding from the students, even though it is not life threatening. So why should a student be shown less respect?

Also, regarding the author's comment identifying all mention of a weapon as related to being in mortal danger ("and anything — anything – that has to do with guns, bombs or knives."), how ridiculous. My dd has shot archery, pistol, rifle, and shotgun competitively since she was 9yo. I sincerely hope she will continue to work with youth shooting sports organizations during her college years. We just received word that one of her shooting sports friends won a major national rifle competition today and was awarded a $5000 college scholarship. Discussion of these facts, or her plan to go to the shooting range to practice, or her need to stop by on her way out of town to pick up some ammunition should not be considered a sign of mortal danger to herself or anyone else. She also has participated in an excellent martial arts class and has spent many hours working on how to defend against and protect herself with a knife. These are legal skills that she has learned, and it is her legal right to the freedom of speech to be able to discuss related topics with her friends or instructors. No, my dd will not be taking a gun on campus. But shooting sports and martial arts are a part of her and I won't abide with any school administration putting a gag order on her to prevent her from talking about it.

I wish the trend was toward common sense rather than legalism.

[regentrude]

I think most professors will understand if a student has to miss class for a legitimate reason.  But a student is also wise to build up that goodwill by being a responsible student.

 

 

I think the advice was very sound. The only caveat I saw was the issue of minor surgeries. There are many minor surgeries that are vitally necessary to maintain health or prevent future health disasters. Hospitals and specialists dictate when these take place and that cannot always be Christmas and Spring break or summer. I do believe that the student should be able to take letters from the surgeon or gp to a professor and have a respectful conversation about an accomodation or receiving an incomplete with a reasonable deadline to complete the work without penalty for simply having the surgeon say, "The gallstone is impacted and while it may not kill you know, the pain level is too great. It must come out this week!" or whatever. As a former adjunct, I can say I would have been happy to work with the student and especially if that student had already demonstrated maturity and due diligence.

 

While I completely respect each instructor's right and responsibility to set the policies for their own class, life does not run like a well oiled machine. Things happen. An instructor immobilized with a freshly broken leg would expect a bit of understanding from the students, even though it is not life threatening. So why should a student be shown less respect?

 

Sometimes an instructor does not have leeway to bend course policies to accommodate special circumstances. This may especially be an issue in large enrollment courses where the school has to be very careful that all rules are applied equally to all students because otherwise they may open themselves to legal action if anything that smacks of "exception" is made. Usually an instructor will try to create rules that provide some kind of blanket accommodation for a missed exam or assignment for example, but that might have to cover common old and surgeries and family emergencies.

This has nothing to do with the student not being shown respect.

I agree that life is not a well-oiled machine. Sometimes stuff happens. And sometimes stuff that happens has an unpleasant consequence that is not the person's fault - like not being able to turn in an assignment because of hospitalization and not being able to make it up. In any well designed class, this will not cause a person to fail. It may cause a lower grade. Sometimes that is unavoidable - and that is a lesson I will be teaching my college bound kids as well: that that's OK, too. Sometimes there is no way to fix everything. It's not the end of the world. It does not mean your instructor does not "respect" you.

 

Btw, the immobilized instructor with the broken leg would still be required to teach the class, if necessary by providing a substitute or using technology to teach remotely. She would not be permitted to simply cancel class.

[regentrude]

 

Also, regarding the author's comment identifying all mention of a weapon as related to being in mortal danger ("and anything — anything – that has to do with guns, bombs or knives."), how ridiculous. My dd has shot archery, pistol, rifle, and shotgun competitively since she was 9yo. I sincerely hope she will continue to work with youth shooting sports organizations during her college years. We just received word that one of her shooting sports friends won a major national rifle competition today and was awarded a $5000 college scholarship. Discussion of these facts, or her plan to go to the shooting range to practice, or her need to stop by on her way out of town to pick up some ammunition should not be considered a sign of mortal danger to herself or anyone else. She also has participated in an excellent martial arts class and has spent many hours working on how to defend against and protect herself with a knife. These are legal skills that she has learned, and it is her legal right to the freedom of speech to be able to discuss related topics with her friends or instructors. No, my dd will not be taking a gun on campus. But shooting sports and martial arts are a part of her and I won't abide with any school administration putting a gag order on her to prevent her from talking about it.

 

That is not what the author was talking about. This was not about students engaging in shooting sports or martial arts.

I understood the passage to be about students contemplating suicide - or contemplating an attack.

 

Of course a parent of a student who routinely handles guns will not be alarmed by the student mentioning guns. A parent of a student in distress who has never had  a relationship with weapons should rightly be alarmed when the student suddenly starts talking about guns, knives and bombs.

[Bootsie]

Because of privacy laws, I am not even allowed to speak to the parents of my university students unless I am given specific permission by the student to do so.  I am not even supposed to acknowledge whether or not a student is enrolled in my class.  I have been teaching at the university level for over 25 years and I have had an increasing number of parents trying to contact me over the past several years.  Theses have ranged from being concerned that Johnny didn't have enough time to take his exam to Johnny can't take an exam on Wednesday because his puppy died on Monday.  I teach juniors and seniors, and in almost all of these situations it has been a parent calling about a male student--so these are 20+ year old young men.

 

Students also seem to be me sicker than they used to be.  Doctor's excuses are easy to come by and are easily forged. So, are emergency room excuses.  I have had students who have presented me with emergency room excuses when they have not been to the emergency room; I have had students with friends who work in doctors' offices provide excuses, and I have had students who have a "family doctor" a 1000 miles a way provide excuses.  Dealing with a "medical excuse" becomes tricky because of privacy considerations.  I had one student who presented me with an excuse from a doctor because she had surgery and could not come to class for a week;  The excuse did not provide details, but I happen to know the physician and he only performs one type of surgery--breast enhancement!  Should that really be considered a medical excuse from a college class?

[In The Great White North]

 

 

But here is something you can do as a parent in the next two weeks: get your kid set up on Evernote or Zotero, 

After reading through pages and pages of OneNote recommendations, I have to ask:  Do you see college students using this to take notes in each class (from the lecture or the book) instead of using paper and pen?  Would a semester's worth of notes even fit in the free 15GB of SkyDrive?  Can they print them out when they're done?  Is there a way to link them into Quizlet?

[regentrude]

After reading through pages and pages of OneNote recommendations, I have to ask:  Do you see college students using this to take notes in each class (from the lecture or the book) instead of using paper and pen?  Would a semester's worth of notes even fit in the free 15GB of SkyDrive?  Can they print them out when they're done?  Is there a way to link them into Quizlet?

 

I very rarely see a student taking notes on a computer.

Out of the 130 students I had per semesters in the past few years, there might be at most one  taking his notes on a tablet computer, and maybe one more who uses a  laptop (Physics is not conducive to typing notes because there are many sketches and equations; only a pen input device that allows handwriting works well - so I am really not sure what the student with the laptop is doing). In some semesters, I have nobody who uses a computer in class.

 

My DD used her tablet to take notes in her physics and English courses last semester. She did not print them out (she certainly could, but why would she?). I can ask her to see how much space her notes took up; she never mentioned space being an issue and kept the notes on her device.

[stripe]

 

Tell your child they should switch their phone OFF when they are in class. Period. It is the student's responsibility to make sure the phone does not interrupt class - not the parent's to not call when the student is in class.

Isn't that the truth? And, in fact, expecting the parent to know the child's schedule and not call then, while the child can't be expected to turn off his/her OWN phone, is an example of just the sort of helicopter surveillance and dependency that should be DIScouraged.

[Bootsie]

After reading through pages and pages of OneNote recommendations, I have to ask:  Do you see college students using this to take notes in each class (from the lecture or the book) instead of using paper and pen?  Would a semester's worth of notes even fit in the free 15GB of SkyDrive?  Can they print them out when they're done?  Is there a way to link them into Quizlet?

I teach finance and economics--which have lots of equations and graphs.  I have students who try to take notes on computers or other electronic devices and I find, on average, they do not do as well in the class as students who use paper and pencil.  For most courses, I strongly discourage students from taking notes on electronic devices.  

[stripe]

When I was last a student, which was > 10 years ago, I was often the only student taking notes, because professors handed out Power Point handouts. I universally hated those, and often because it left no hope that the lecture would get interesting. The notes were essentially handed to us on the way in. I found it very troubling.

[regentrude]

When I was last a student, which was > 10 years ago, I was often the only student taking notes, because professors handed out Power Point handouts. I universally hated those, and often because it left no hope that the lecture would get interesting. The notes were essentially handed to us on the way in. I found it very troubling.

 

I often observe that students seem to have a false sense of "knowledge" just because they are in possession of lecture notes.

When I taught large courses, students demanded lecture notes and would punish the instructor by giving poor ratings if no notes were made available. I got the nastiest comments ever the semester I taught a large enrollment class and expected students to -gasp- take notes.

I don't understand the need for lecture notes since the students have textbooks that contain all the information, but since they demand them, I'll make copies of lecture notes available when I use ppt. For small classes, I lecture on the chalk board, but for large courses where several lecture sections are taught in one day and I need to make sure every section receives identical information, I use ppt. I still won't work out examples on the ppt; those I do on the board and they have to take notes as we go through the problem. So, the ppts are really just a skeleton of most important info and won't really be  a substitute for attending class.

 

Ppt lectures CAN be very good - if the instructor resists the temptation to cram content on the slides and slows down the pace and does not race through slide after slide after slide. They can be absolutely awful, too. As with all technology, they are a tool ...it depends on the instructor whether the use of the tool improves or reduces the quality of a class.

[FaithManor]

About typing on laptops, one thing I have to offer on the controversy is that for a student who has a writing dysability, neurological LD, it can be a lifesaver. But for most neuro thypical kids, the act of writing helps commit the information to long term memory in a way that typing does not.

 

This was the subject of a neruology and !earning class I took several years ago and the research was compelling so anecdotal evidence from professors on this board that the traditional pen and paper note takers seem to recall the information better, rings true with the studies.

[Teachin'Mine]

Has anyone, or more likely their recent students, experienced a college where laptops are often used by students for note taking purposes?   I can't imagine it being very useful for math or other subjects which require notations and diagrams, but would like to hear about others' experiences.

[regentrude]

Has anyone, or more likely their recent students, experienced a college where laptops are often used by students for note taking purposes?   I can't imagine it being very useful for math or other subjects which require notations and diagrams, but would like to hear about others' experiences.

 

Not exactly an answer to your question, but I just wanted to throw out that some college instructors do not permit the use of computers in their classes. So even a student who prefers to take notes on a laptop should be prepared to encounter instructors who won't allow that (usually because they had bad experiences with laptops being used for anything BUT note taking...)

 

[Laura Corin]

Has anyone, or more likely their recent students, experienced a college where laptops are often used by students for note taking purposes?   I can't imagine it being very useful for math or other subjects which require notations and diagrams, but would like to hear about others' experiences.

 

I sat in on some lectures at St Andrews University in Scotland, and almost all of the students had laptops in front of them.  I only saw one or two using a pen.  They were English/Classics lectures.

 

L

[maize]

I sat in on some lectures at St Andrews University in Scotland, and almost all of the students had laptops in front of them. I only saw one or two using a pen. They were English/Classics lectures.

 

L

This makes sense for English and humanities classes, as typing is so much quicker than writing longhand.

[regentrude]

This makes sense for English and humanities classes, as typing is so much quicker than writing longhand.

 

that has been debated, and I think the jury is still out whether that is true for a regular student (we are not talking highly trained typists).

 

 

[Bootsie]

Typing may be faster than writing longhand, I think that holds for writing out a paragraph.  Students who I see trying to type notes tend to try to type too much (transcribe a lecture).  It is much like a student who thinks that taping the class is superior to taking notes--they have a transcript of the class but have not determined the main points of the class lecture and do not see the relationship between the points.   I find students who write notes, who can easily draw lines from one point to another, who outline with main topics and subtopics, and who can circle, underline, and otherwise highlight important, key points do better in my classes than students who type notes.

[kiana]

I think the advice was very sound. The only caveat I saw was the issue of minor surgeries. There are many minor surgeries that are vitally necessary to maintain health or prevent future health disasters. Hospitals and specialists dictate when these take place and that cannot always be Christmas and Spring break or summer. I do believe that the student should be able to take letters from the surgeon or gp to a professor and have a respectful conversation about an accomodation or receiving an incomplete with a reasonable deadline to complete the work without penalty for simply having the surgeon say, "The gallstone is impacted and while it may not kill you know, the pain level is too great. It must come out this week!" or whatever. As a former adjunct, I can say I would have been happy to work with the student and especially if that student had already demonstrated maturity and due diligence.

 

I read this more as being present at family member's minor hospitalizations rather than medical appointments relating to the student personally.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Many very good points.

But I have one little comment about this:

 

Tell your child they should switch their phone OFF when they are in class. Period. It is the student's responsibility to make sure the phone does not interrupt class - not the parent's to not call when the student is in class.

 

I do tell my child to switch off their phone in class.  However, I do find it handy to know when they are in class so that I know not to contact them in class.  I don't contact my kids often and when I do, it is important.  I worry less when I know the reason why they didn't get back to me.  I also like to know when their breaks are and when they will be off campus in case I get the phone call about a charge made in a city no one has ever been to. 

 

I don't see being a college student as magically being an adult who never needs help.  I don't handle my kids business for them.  But, for my first child who has social anxiety issues, he needed more coaching on how to handle his issues - issues that he had not run into before and had not learned how to handle.  Being able to talk him through something has helped them develop the independence to handle things on his own.  I would never contact an instructor for him.  But, I will encourage my child to meet with an instructor and help my child come up with talking points so that it will be a productive meeting.  I looked at my first child's panic calls his first year as an opportunity to coach him in handling his own situations.  But, I guess all of this would have been invisible to his instructors, which is what I intended.

 

Back to the original article ... I would be thrilled if my kid wanted to text me every day.  Not to handle things for him, but to continue a relationship with a really cool person that I miss having around.  But, I had to be satisfied with communication about once every 2 weeks - usually a facebook message from me asking if he was still alive.  My other son has mental health issues so I will need more frequent contact to make sure that he is handling things ok. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Not exactly an answer to your question, but I just wanted to throw out that some college instructors do not permit the use of computers in their classes. So even a student who prefers to take notes on a laptop should be prepared to encounter instructors who won't allow that (usually because they had bad experiences with laptops being used for anything BUT note taking...)

 

 

Regentrude, at CC I don't think they were prohibited in class, but I also don't think many used them including dd. However it is common where she's going but I doubt there's any concern about how they're being used.  I'm also more in favor of handwritten note taking, so I was wondering if anyone had any experiences either pro or con.  I can see it detracting from the lecture or discussion if one was trying to create a transcript, but handwritten note taking can be a distraction as well.  Typing is so much faster here, so I can see the benefit. 

 

Laura, it was similar to what you saw at St. Andrews.

[AngieW in Texas]

My kids have all used an Echo pen for taking notes. Yes, you do have to buy or print the special paper, but since you use that paper just for notes, it takes a long time to use it all up.

 

The Echo pen is going to be essential for my youngest who is both dyslexic and dysgraphic. With the echo pen, she can take key word notes and then go back and tap on her notes with the pen at any time to hear what the teacher was saying when she wrote that key word. 

 

My dd has using an echo pen written into her accommodations at the community college.

 

I have only spoken with one of my kids' college teachers.That teacher called what he thought was my daughter's number (because she had my cell phone listed as her number on the original paperwork) to make sure she was okay. She had gotten horribly sick while in his class and he wanted to make sure that she had made it home okay and let her know when he would be available in the tutoring lab to go over what she missed. 

 

Somebody posted that the article seemed to suggest that students not miss classes for their minor surgeries or childbirth. The article was saying that they should not miss classes for minor surgeries or childbirth of a FAMILY MEMBER, not of the student. If the student is having surgery or giving birth, that is a different matter. You should try to schedule nonemergency surgeries for times that don't conflict with classes, but that isn't always possible. 

[regentrude]

Somebody posted that the article seemed to suggest that students not miss classes for their minor surgeries or childbirth. The article was saying that they should not miss classes for minor surgeries or childbirth of a FAMILY MEMBER, not of the student. If the student is having surgery or giving birth, that is a different matter.

 

Oh yes, please: if your student is about to give birth, she should most definitely not attend class. Childbirth is rather disruptive to class, and we are really not equipped to assist with birthing.  Trust me, every professor will gladly excuse a student in labor.

(And giving birth during the semester should be grounds to request a grade of Incomplete)

[FaithManor]

I wouldn't assume anything about minor surgeries or hospitalizations. That is why I mentioned hoping the student could approach the professor and receive an accomodation. The reason I mentioned it is I know a young man who was failed last year when he had emergency removal of his appendix which was threatening to rupture. It was the day before finals. The professor refused to allow him to make it up and the dean agreed. They considered it elective...should have gone against medical advice, waited 24 hrs., took the final, and then had it out. Same university, a girl was rear ended badly two days before finals and was in a back and neck brace, lots of pain. She couldn't even sit in the chairs provided in the classroom. She asked for an incomplete and tough 3/4 of the semester wss complete and she had an A, she was failed. No accomodation for being hospitalized for theee class periods, nor for the fact that she would not be able to take the final without some help.

 

So don't make assumptions. Teach your kids how to approach these situations, make sure they understand that their best chance to get mercy is to be a stellar student to begin with but not to take harsh policies personally and despite the desire to maintain a high GPA, it is not the end of the world if they have to take the class again.

 

Same crappy university I outed in another thread. Buyer Beware!

[Melissa B]

My dd uses a laptop to take notes for most of her classes. A good percentage of students in her classes take notes on laptops as well. Her classes are mostly humanities-type classes. When there are important drawings, graphs, etc. the professors often stop the lecture or step away from the center of the board for a brief moment for a "photo-op" or "screen shot op" when the students can take a picture of the screen upfront with their phones, I-pads, etc. and later upload them into their notes. 

[regentrude]

I wouldn't assume anything about minor surgeries or hospitalizations. That is why I mentioned hoping the student could approach the professor and receive an accomodation. The reason I mentioned it is I know a young man who was failed last year when he had emergency removal of his appendix which was threatening to rupture. It was the day before finals. The professor refused to allow him to make it up and the dean agreed. They considered it elective...should have gone against medical advice, waited 24 hrs., took the final, and then had it out. Same university, a girl was rear ended badly two days before finals and was in a back and neck brace, lots of pain. She couldn't even sit in the chairs provided in the classroom. She asked for an incomplete and tough 3/4 of the semester wss complete and she had an A, she was failed. No accomodation for being hospitalized for theee class periods, nor for the fact that she would not be able to take the final without some help.

 

Wow. Speechless. Isn't that exactly what the Incomplete is for?

 

For parents not that familiar with the mechanism: the "Incomplete" FaithManor is mentioning in her post is an accommodation given to students who have circumstances arise during the last weeks of the semester, after it is no longer possible to drop a class, that make it impossible for the student to complete the course, for example health problems or hospitalization. The student needs to meet with the instructor and agree on which assignments he still has to complete to finish the course, and he is given a time frame (at our school one year) to do so.

 

[Dmmetler]

I had to have my appendix out right at midterms in my senior undergrad year (part of a pretty severe systemic infection-basically, I'd pushed myself into adrenal exhaustion and the appendix was simply what gave out first), and had one professor who had made a big deal of "there are no excused absences". I absolutely refused to sign the papers for admission to the hospital because I could NOT miss that midterm. One of the nurses actually called the guy, told him to get his butt over to the ER so I'd sign myself in, because she didn't want my killing myself to take his midterm on his conscience.

 

Not sure that would fly now, given HIPPA, but it served the purpose-he gave me permission to make up the midterm and said he'd contact my other professors, and. I got the appendix out and the infections arrested. The next semester his syllabus stated that emergencies would be handled on a case-by-case basis.

[FaithManor]

I had to have my appendix out right at midterms in my senior undergrad year (part of a pretty severe systemic infection-basically, I'd pushed myself into adrenal exhaustion and the appendix was simply what gave out first), and had one professor who had made a big deal of "there are no excused absences". I absolutely refused to sign the papers for admission to the hospital because I could NOT miss that midterm. One of the nurses actually called the guy, told him to get his butt over to the ER so I'd sign myself in, because she didn't want my killing myself to take his midterm on his conscience.

 

Not sure that would fly now, given HIPPA, but it served the purpose-he gave me permission to make up the midterm and said he'd contact my other professors, and. I got the appendix out and the infections arrested. The next semester his syllabus stated that emergencies would be handled on a case-by-case basis.

Wow! I am so glad someone advocated for you. You would have been so sick at that point you really couldn't stand up for yourself.

 

Even with HIPPA though, you can sign a paper giving authority to them to talk to someone about your condition. Won't work if you are unconscious, but then again, at that stage, college is the last thing to worry about!

[kiana]

I wouldn't assume anything about minor surgeries or hospitalizations. That is why I mentioned hoping the student could approach the professor and receive an accomodation. The reason I mentioned it is I know a young man who was failed last year when he had emergency removal of his appendix which was threatening to rupture. It was the day before finals. The professor refused to allow him to make it up and the dean agreed. They considered it elective...should have gone against medical advice, waited 24 hrs., took the final, and then had it out. Same university, a girl was rear ended badly two days before finals and was in a back and neck brace, lots of pain. She couldn't even sit in the chairs provided in the classroom. She asked for an incomplete and tough 3/4 of the semester wss complete and she had an A, she was failed. No accomodation for being hospitalized for theee class periods, nor for the fact that she would not be able to take the final without some help.

Are you fricking kidding me?

 

This is something where I would swear to splash it all over the media if they couldn't work with me for a makeup. I would publish it on EVERY website for incoming students, and if I could afford one, I'd come in with a lawyer. I'd write my congressman. That is complete and total horsecrap.

 

This is also something where if it were my kid, you'd hear the whap-whap-whap of the Blackhawk attack helicopter coming in with guns blazing.

 

ETA: And man I hate the terrible way posting history displays now so that I can't easily go back and reread your posts on other threads.

[FaithManor]

Are you fricking kidding me?

 

This is something where I would swear to splash it all over the media if they couldn't work with me for a makeup. I would publish it on EVERY website for incoming students, and if I could afford one, I'd come in with a lawyer. I'd write my congressman. That is complete and total horsecrap.

 

This is also something where if it were my kid, you'd hear the whap-whap-whap of the Blackhawk attack helicopter coming in with guns blazing.

 

ETA: And man I hate the terrible way posting history displays now so that I can't easily go back and reread your posts on other threads.

Not kidding. I outed two universities with low graduation rates, bizarrely low, in another thread. Both are noted for this. One reason is money making. A zero, no excused absenses ever policy means failing the student when they should be allowed an incomplete which means paying to take the class again. It also means the GPA tanked and merit scholarships are gone. Most, and I really can't emphasize this enough, MOST uni's and colleges are not going to be this unscrupulous and unethical. But, as I listen to the college students in my community and the professors as well, I realize that once one has narrowed down your options to school a or school b, it might behoove you to really explore the policies of the institution, talk to a couple of professors at that college, etc. It might be that B has better than A. In our cas, the local communty college hands out creditsmlike candy for little attendance and no effort, so it's not like I would want anyone's student to land there either! Grrr....

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Not kidding. I outed two universities with low graduation rates, bizarrely low, in another thread. Both are noted for this. One reason is money making. A zero, no excused absenses ever policy means failing the student when they should be allowed an incomplete which means paying to take the class again. It also means the GPA tanked and merit scholarships are gone. Most, and I really can't emphasize this enough, MOST uni's and colleges are not going to be this unscrupulous and unethical. But, as I listen to the college students in my community and the professors as well, I realize that once one has narrowed down your options to school a or school b, it might behoove you to really explore the policies of the institution, talk to a couple of professors at that college, etc. It might be that B has better than A. In our cas, the local communty college hands out creditsmlike candy for little attendance and no effort, so it's not like I would want anyone's student to land there either! Grrr....

 

I don't know how one would practically get this sort of information about most schools.  Maybe local schools if you knew people who had kids there.  But in an age where many students are casting their application nets widely across the country, this seems pretty tough.

[regentrude]

I don't know how one would practically get this sort of information about most schools.  Maybe local schools if you knew people who had kids there.  But in an age where many students are casting their application nets widely across the country, this seems pretty tough.

 

I suggest starting by perusing the Student Academic Regulations you should find at the website of the Registrar. Those should spell out under which circumstances a student is entitled to requesting a grade of Incomplete, for example.

Another good starting point can be Student Affairs.

Our school even has Student Advocates who could request the Incomplete on behalf of a student if the student is unable to do so.

 

I am pretty sure that colleges are required to publish their Academic Regulations as to make processes transparent.

[kiana]

Not kidding. I outed two universities with low graduation rates, bizarrely low, in another thread. Both are noted for this. One reason is money making. A zero, no excused absenses ever policy means failing the student when they should be allowed an incomplete which means paying to take the class again. It also means the GPA tanked and merit scholarships are gone. Most, and I really can't emphasize this enough, MOST uni's and colleges are not going to be this unscrupulous and unethical. But, as I listen to the college students in my community and the professors as well, I realize that once one has narrowed down your options to school a or school b, it might behoove you to really explore the policies of the institution, talk to a couple of professors at that college, etc. It might be that B has better than A. In our cas, the local communty college hands out creditsmlike candy for little attendance and no effort, so it's not like I would want anyone's student to land there either! Grrr....

 

I didn't seriously think you were kidding -- it was more an expression of how aghast I was.

 

This is something that should be published on EVERY college review site by the student in question -- once he has graduated if he fears retaliation.

[kiana]

 

I suggest starting by perusing the Student Academic Regulations you should find at the website of the Registrar. Those should spell out under which circumstances a student is entitled to requesting a grade of Incomplete, for example.

Another good starting point can be Student Affairs.

Our school even has Student Advocates who could request the Incomplete on behalf of a student if the student is unable to do so.

 

I am pretty sure that colleges are required to publish their Academic Regulations as to make processes transparent.

I think so too, but it's not going to rat out the ones that are quietly not following their own policies or interpreting them in bizarre ways. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the one with the appendectomy says that emergency surgery will be excused ... and it would NOT EVER in a million years have occurred to me that someone might claim an appendectomy was not an emergency.

 

My appendix ruptured during finals week one year and my professors were totally understanding and tried very hard to make it easy for me to make it up. Most of them just asked me to come and take the final with the next semester's section so that I could have time to recover and re-study.

[Pawz4me]

Not quite so bad, but my niece spent the entire night in her university's hospital ER last semester because they thought she had appendicitis.  She was there from about 10:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m., when they figured out she didn't in fact have a serious problem and let her go.  She had a test that morning and e-mailed the professor asking if she could take it a day or so later (and telling him that she would provide proof she'd been in the ER all night).  He said no, that would mean he'd have to make two different tests and he didn't do that ever. :huh:

[Teachin'Mine]

When you're at a distance and have several colleges to consider, the best way to check for the types of extreme problems at a college is to read the reviews on the various student review sites.  When this is happening to many students at least one, and likely more, will talk about it.   Look at the pie charts showing how many students would choose this school again.  When there's a lot more red than green, it means there's a problem.

[Alice]

 

Definitely, if your kids are always used to you handling their medical concerns, start training them well before you drop them on campus.

 

 

Amen! I am always shocked by how many 17 and 18 year olds I see who have no idea of: what meds they take (not to mention dosage of meds), if they have allergies, their own medical history, their family medical history. It also always surprises me to see older teens about to head to college who are uncomfortable answering basic medical questions. "How long have you had the sore throat?" They look at Mom to answer. 

 

I do understand that teens are still kids and that being comfortable talking to doctors is a process that takes some time and training but it concerns me when they are about to be off on their own and they can't do this yet. I would encourage parents of younger teens to start the process early. Be supportive, be there, but help them to start taking ownership of their own medical concerns. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Amen! I am always shocked by how many 17 and 18 year olds I see who have no idea of: what meds they take (not to mention dosage of meds), if they have allergies, their own medical history, their family medical history. It also always surprises me to see older teens about to head to college who are uncomfortable answering basic medical questions. "How long have you had the sore throat?" They look at Mom to answer. 

 

I do understand that teens are still kids and that being comfortable talking to doctors is a process that takes some time and training but it concerns me when they are about to be off on their own and they can't do this yet. I would encourage parents of younger teens to start the process early. Be supportive, be there, but help them to start taking ownership of their own medical concerns. 

 

I had a clinic chief pediatrician very politely tell me to pipe down when he was examining my son after a concussion.  I sat quietly fuming for a moment, while son tried to give answers.  Then Dr looked at me and reasked the questions. 

 

Then he looked at my son and said, "This is your medical history and you need to know it.  Now is the time to start learning it."  I stopped being put out and realized that my son did in fact need to be able to articulate his problems and describe his pain levels and learn how to advocate for himself.

 

The Dr. wasn't mean about it.  I'm glad he gave us the gentle push.

[Laura Corin]

Extract from Calvin's college regulations:

 

E.1.4 Parental and Family Involvement 

Precisely because students are responsible adults, we will not seek contact with your 

parents or family without your consent. This is in accordance both with the University’s 

Confidentiality Guidelines and the requirements of the Data Protection Act. If a parent 

contacts us with a problem, very often they ask us not to talk to you about the problem. As 

we make clear to parents, we do not accept that sort of relationship: our responsibility is to 

you. For example, if a parent contacts us to say you are unusually anxious and upset, we 

will listen courteously but give no information to them. If we decide that their concerns are

serious enough to warrant it, we will attempt to talk to you and see how you are. If you are 

not in danger of harming yourself or breaking the law, and you do not wish to seek any extra 

help with any problem, then the matter will rest there. You have a right to privacy and to 

governing your own affairs. 

 

In [college name], we realise that parents will wish to take an active interest in the education of 

their sons and daughters; and that parental involvement has been part of that success 

which has brought students to [college name]. But the College is never in loco parentis. Students 

here are legally responsible adults and will be treated as such. 

 

L

[Azalea]

Thanks for sharing that excerpt Laura. It made me smile to read an official document that is written in "human" rather than legalese.

[MIch elle]

:glare: