guess what??? I am ruining my children for life...and am proud of it

[swellmomma]

Hey did you know that I am an evil mother that is stifling my children and refusing to let them be kids because I believe it is lazy to have teens sleep all day and then do nothing but lounge around and play video games, or yu-gi-oh etc the rest of the day. My children will grow up to be nothing more than followers with no idea how to think for themselves because I expect them to pitch in around the house, watch their siblings on occasion and do their school work. OH and if I didn't make them do school work and chores then they would be completely cured of their learning disabilities and adhd. *eyeroll* and then these same people wonder why people have such a low opinion of unschooling. Yeah, I wonder...sheesh

I mean really, I have known a few good unschoolers, but it is this attitude that pisses me right off.  I am on a group on fb, it says it is for unschoolers and homeschoolers, but if anyone posts on it in anyway shape or form about schooling in anyway other than unschooling they jump all over it, specifically the group owner and 1 other member.  Both of them flat out tell the person how they are ruining their kids, how their kids will grow up to be brainless followers etc.  Most recently a civil conversation which started due to them making fun of a mom from a different group that posted a picture of her kid's math worksheet.  The kid did it in 2 different colors of crayon (as in 1/2 the number in 1 color, the other 1/2 in the 2nd color), the mom had said she has learned over the years to mellow out and go with her kid's creativity even though the fact it drags out math is trying on her patience.  These people were posting basically that this mom was a sh*tty mother for even caring.  I posted that I can see the mom's pov, she doesn't stop her kid from doing it like that, she just wishes kids would do it normally and move on to something else.  Anyway that got turned into how horrible I am for even making my kids do math at all.  After all, according to the one person his 8 year old knows all the math she will ever need in her whole life, plus knows how to use a calculator.  So I asked what if she wants a STEM career, and can't do the math, chemistry, physics etc because she has never studied it.  I asked about college entrance requirements etc.  Apparently child will just pick up higher level math and science if they want it but the parent should never teach it, ever, even if child wants a stem career.  

I asked what about kids who can't or won't learn on their own do to mental illness, learning disabilities, or plain laziness.  Apparently unschooling cures mental illness and LDs because you are not forcing your will upon them which is what is causing those things in the first place.  Uh, sure.  And laziness is a myth perpetuated my controlling adults who never let a kid just be a kid. Oh yes and actually expecting your kids to help out around the house and have actual chores is the same as turning them into your slaves and abusing them.

Yeah I am ruining my kids for life, and so very proud of it.  My teens will graduate with the courses they need to get into post secondary.  They will continue to help around the house, watch the younger siblings, hold a part time job, participate in their extracurriculars and become well rounded people.  What they will not get to do is stay up all night, sleep half the day away and then play video games while I clean up around them.  Oh and they will do all of that while being crushed because their mother has a job outside of the home.  My poor horribly hard done by children.

[Cindy in FL.]

Well, I never! I guess I'm ruining my kids, too. Glad to have good company!

[maize]

Poor, poor kids...

[Aelwydd]

Wow. They would hate me for pushing my sixth grader in pre-Algebra this year, lol. Oh well. Maybe someday he can be a mindless engineer or something. 😊

[SemiSweet]

Sounds more like lazy parenting to me... I feel sad for those kids. Few things in life are as rewarding as a job well done, if there are absolutely no expectations of a child how will they ever know of they need to do more and/or try harder. I'll keep ruining my kids thankyouverymuch.

[Snickerdoodle]

What ruined unschooling for me was other unschoolers.   I always got this weird vibe like you had to not only drink the Kool Aid but drink long and deep and do not dare deviate.   In other words, it felt like a cult.     IMHO  YMMV  and all other disclaimers.

 

:D

[Guest]

There was a group I was around once upon a time. It was similar. I found new friends.

[Desert Strawberry]

You need to leave that group.

[Mom in High Heels]

Well, I'm a bad, bad parent too, and I'm totally ruining my children.  Indy can only play video games on the weekend, and only for a short period of time.  I let him play yesterday, because it was his birthday, and we're being a bit lax today, because he got a new game for his birthday.  He's also expected to do chores and look after Han Solo while I run errands or have a dr. appt.  I do pay him for sitting though if it's a dr or hair appt ($4/hour).  Oh, and I make him finish his school work before he's allowed to go outside, watch TV or play.   I'm a horrible, horrible mother.  

[Lisa R.]

I don't understand why you would even engage in a conversation like this at all. No one is going to change their mind, and all that will result is drama.  

 

I've found it is much more profitable to discuss topics such as education with like-minded individuals. That is way to learn something and have feedback received well. I've followed this and have never found the opportunity to be involved in a contentious homeschool discussion. It has made my homeschooling experience much easier, calmer, and drama-free. 

[Slache]

There should be a club for this. I want to be in it. We can have matching hats made. The most recent thing that was said to me was that kids should have no chores until their tweens because if you make them do chores before then they wont enjoy it.  :huh:

[MomtoCandJ]

Well I am too then, dd1 is cleaning her room right now... Oh the horror

[swellmomma]

I don't understand why you would even engage in a conversation like this at all. No one is going to change their mind, and all that will result is drama.  

 

I've found it is much more profitable to discuss topics such as education with like-minded individuals. That is way to learn something and have feedback received well. I've followed this and have never found the opportunity to be involved in a contentious homeschool discussion. It has made my homeschooling experience much easier, calmer, and drama-free. 

The conversation didn't start off as trying to change minds, I was asking honest questions about how they approach those things.  It was the other poster that started turning it into a personal attack rather than just answering the questions.  My first post on the thread was only to show the mom they were making fun of didn't deserve it, that her pov was valid, and could be understood if you followed a different philosophy.  I never imagined it would turn into telling me how I am ruining my kids by having expectations at all of them.

[SKL]

Oh, I know.  My daughter told me yesterday that she is the *only* child in the world who has to do work in the summer.  :P

 

She also said she loves her family except for the work part.  ??

[SKL]

The calluses, anyone know how to remove the calluses?

[Mom in High Heels]

I don't understand why you would even engage in a conversation like this at all. No one is going to change their mind, and all that will result is drama.  

 

I've found it is much more profitable to discuss topics such as education with like-minded individuals. That is way to learn something and have feedback received well. I've followed this and have never found the opportunity to be involved in a contentious homeschool discussion. It has made my homeschooling experience much easier, calmer, and drama-free. 

 

Did I miss something?

 

[swellmomma]

There should be a club for this. I want to be in it. We can have matching hats made. The most recent thing that was said to me was that kids should have no chores until their tweens because if you make them do chores before then they wont enjoy it.  :huh:

That's funny.  In a sad pathetic way.  At least that person told you to give chores as tweens, both of the people talking to me have teenagers and little kids, but one their teen is 16 the other their teen is 15 so same age as my teens and they have no responsibilities at home beyond doing what their little heart desires and if they pitch in and help great, it was their own choice you know because asking your child to do something is coercion and horrible.  I can not imagine having a nearly grown young person in my house sitting on their butt watching me do everything around them.  It is that thinking (held by many these days, not just unschoolers) that prolongs adolescence and then the parents are lamenting when the child is still living at home doing nothing but playing video games at 25yrs old.  Yeah, no, my children will learn the value of work and how to persevere and do it well even if it is not something fun, or enjoyable etc.

 

I did have a laugh out loud moment when the one tried to say ALL parents have the same goal for their kids when they grow up "to be happy and only do what you love".  Um, nope, My goal for my kids is that they grow up to be self sufficient and successful at whatever they do.  Yes of course I want them happy, but happy doesn't feed your family.  Being a hard worker and being willing to do whatever it takes and to do those things well and use the crappy experiences/moments as a stepping stone to learn from is more important to me.  And it is not just me saying it, I live it everyday, and the kids see me working hard to improve our situation.  Which is how I came to be horrible for working, because don't you know.  All kinds of families think the family is more important than working and if I just tried harder and grew a garden my kids would not be so deprived of a mother at home while being taught that finances are all that matter.  Haha, yeah because mortgage payments, and food for the 8 months the garden is under the snow, and bills will get paid by the wonderful unicorn you are riding by on.  Honestly, some people need a reality check, personally I think the only people who can afford that train of thought are the very affluent.  Anyone who has struggled to make ends meet and make sure kids have full bellies in the day  etc wouldn't be spouting off about how just trying harder and planting a garden would make it possible for you to not need to work to support your family.

[swellmomma]

Oh, I know.  My daughter told me yesterday that she is the *only* child in the world who has to do work in the summer.  :p

 

She also said she loves her family except for the work part.  ??

awww poor cinderella bwahaha.  My kids have not had to work thus far this summer unless you count army cadet training.  And that is more stringent with higher expectations then I have ever placed on them, and guess what...like every kid they rose to the occasion.  Kids will do their best to meet your expectations of them, so why not set the bar high enough to have them grow as individuals?

 

Tell your cinderella, that my 10 year old did announce that he was very glad to be going to camping with auntie this week because he was the only child in the whole universe that had to take his own laundry out of the washer and put it in the dryer before he could put on another episode of sponge bob, and it nearly broke both of his arms and both of his legs to do it.  I positively torture my children here, so your cinderella is not alone :P

[swellmomma]

The calluses, anyone know how to remove the calluses?

easy, switch to washing the dishes, softens them right up lol

[swellmomma]

You need to leave that group.

I did, and then I posted here because I can not wrap my head around it.  I would have thought these 2 were just trolls or nutters, but they are not the first set of unschoolers I have come across (both online and irl) that think this way.  And all I can think is "did your mother drop you on your head or something?"  Like I can not grasp the idea that is is not just okay but desirable to let our kids think it is okay to squander any sort of potential they have and only do what you feel like.

[Lisa R.]

Did I miss something?

 

I am referring to my confusion as to why someone would enter a conversation like this on Facebook. I love Facebook for staying connected with friends and relatives that are spread out throughout the country. I do see Facebook discussions about hot topics and refuse to participate.  Education choices are a hot topic when they happen with those that are not like-minded. I would fully expect a conversation like this to be heated. I would fully expect no one involved to change their opinions and be enlightened in any way. 

 

There isn't anyone I know in real life who finds basic education and basic household chores is unreasonable. I'm not proud of giving my kids an education and requiring them to do some work around the house. It's just seems really basic to me. I'm not particularly interested in having conversations with people who disagree with basic education and helping around the house. I wouldn't learn anything from them, and they wouldn't learn anything from me. No heated conversation needed.

[maize]

What ruined unschooling for me was other unschoolers. I always got this weird vibe like you had to not only drink the Kool Aid but drink long and deep and do not dare deviate. In other words, it felt like a cult. IMHO YMMV and all other disclaimers.

 

:D

Silly Snickerdoodle, freedom to make your own choices without someone else telling what to do is for KIDS,not for PARENTS!

[Slache]

That's funny.  In a sad pathetic way.  At least that person told you to give chores as tweens, both of the people talking to me have teenagers and little kids, but one their teen is 16 the other their teen is 15 so same age as my teens and they have no responsibilities at home beyond doing what their little heart desires and if they pitch in and help great, it was their own choice you know because asking your child to do something is coercion and horrible.  I can not imagine having a nearly grown young person in my house sitting on their butt watching me do everything around them.  It is that thinking (held by many these days, not just unschoolers) that prolongs adolescence and then the parents are lamenting when the child is still living at home doing nothing but playing video games at 25yrs old.  Yeah, no, my children will learn the value of work and how to persevere and do it well even if it is not something fun, or enjoyable etc.

 

I did have a laugh out loud moment when the one tried to say ALL parents have the same goal for their kids when they grow up "to be happy and only do what you love".  Um, nope, My goal for my kids is that they grow up to be self sufficient and successful at whatever they do.  Yes of course I want them happy, but happy doesn't feed your family.  Being a hard worker and being willing to do whatever it takes and to do those things well and use the crappy experiences/moments as a stepping stone to learn from is more important to me.  And it is not just me saying it, I live it everyday, and the kids see me working hard to improve our situation.  Which is how I came to be horrible for working, because don't you know.  All kinds of families think the family is more important than working and if I just tried harder and grew a garden my kids would not be so deprived of a mother at home while being taught that finances are all that matter.  Haha, yeah because mortgage payments, and food for the 8 months the garden is under the snow, and bills will get paid by the wonderful unicorn you are riding by on.  Honestly, some people need a reality check, personally I think the only people who can afford that train of thought are the very affluent.  Anyone who has struggled to make ends meet and make sure kids have full bellies in the day  etc wouldn't be spouting off about how just trying harder and planting a garden would make it possible for you to not need to work to support your family.

I think a big part of this has been caused by the welfare mentality. Why does it matter if you know how to work, or have a desire to, if food is just provided for you? I'm not saying unschoolers are all on welfare. I'm not even talking about unschoolers. Just parents who don't care if their kids ever amount to anything, or know how to use a vacuum.

[swellmomma]

I am referring to my confusion as to why someone would enter a conversation like this on Facebook. I love Facebook for staying connected with friends and relatives that are spread out throughout the country. I do see Facebook discussions about hot topics and refuse to participate.  Education choices are a hot topic when they happen with those that are not like-minded. I would fully expect a conversation like this to be heated. I would fully expect no one involved to change their opinions and be enlightened in any way. 

 

There isn't anyone I know in real life who finds basic education and basic household chores is unreasonable. I'm not proud of giving my kids an education and requiring them to do some work around the house. It's just seems really basic to me. I'm not particularly interested in having conversations with people who disagree with basic education and helping around the house. I wouldn't learn anything from them, and they wouldn't learn anything from me. No heated conversation needed.

Except this was in a group dedicated to unschooling and supposedly homeschooling.  So I did feel I was talking with like minded people, these 2 individuals were not however.

[Ravin]

I think a big part of this mentality has been caused by the welfare state. Why does it matter if you know how to work, or have a desire to, if food is just provided for you? I'm not saying unschoolers are all on welfare. I'm not even talking about unschoolers. Just parents who don't care if their kids ever amount to anything, or know how to use a vacuum.

This is an abysmally ignorant thing to say. Most people who receive food assistance are unable to work, do work, or are children.

[musicianmom]

Swellmomma, I sent you a PM.

[Slache]

This is an abysmally ignorant thing to say. Most people who receive food assistance are unable to work, do work, or are children.

 

I should have said welfare mentality. I was referring to those who choose not to work because they don't want to and rely on the government for food and shelter, of which there are many. I'm grateful for the programs that are available to help those who need help, but most of what I've seen are people who play video games all day on their big screen TVs with the newest game consoles living on my money. Those are the types of people who teach their children, in my experience, to be lazy.

[Flowing Brook]

ignore ignore ignore. It is not worth the time or the mental energy to dwell on this stuff. Life is so much sweeter when you just walk away and forget it.

[Farrar]

I feel like there's a great value in having discussion with people who aren't likeminded.  Because otherwise you never get pushed beyond your own ideas.  People who think just like you can be a bit of an echo chamber.  Of course, it has to be respectful discussion, which this maybe wasn't, but I really disagree that you shouldn't discuss things unless the people are pretty much just like you.

 

(I'm not even touching that poor people mess...)

[unsinkable]

The calluses, anyone know how to remove the calluses?

:lol:

[Guest]

As far as I'm concerned, S andra D odd and D ay na Ma rtin can have that flippin' word! A rose by any other name blah blah blah.

 

I thought about calling myself an "ununschooler" but somebody else is already using that term, somebody who doesn't play very nice in debates/conversations/sharing opinions about copyright laws and free vs proprietary software, so I've just settled on describing myself as "weird", "old fashioned", or just plain ETHEL!!!!!!!

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

 

[Flowing Brook]

I feel like there's a great value in having discussion with people who aren't likeminded.  Because otherwise you never get pushed beyond your own ideas.  People who think just like you can be a bit of an echo chamber.  Of course, it has to be respectful discussion, which this maybe wasn't, but I really disagree that you shouldn't discuss things unless the people are pretty much just like you.

 

(I'm not even touching that poor people mess...)

 

I agree with this. However, if it upsets you or turns you red. Then it's not worth it. Not saying that's where swellmomma was at. I've just seen alot of people complain lately about stuff people are saying that's against their belief system. I wonder when reading "Why not just walk away?"

 

This is not to say I'm perfect and nothing ever bothers me.

[swellmomma]

I agree that some of the time is not a problem at all. I allow my kids to do so some of the time, but the one person was saying that is all his kid does and he is fine with that.  He also said he wouldn't care if same kid didn't learn to read until 13+ because teaching it to child earlier is coercive and wrong etc.  Child did learn to read earlier, I think he said 8 or 9, but most of his argument was that it was just fine his teen was doing nothing but sleeping half the day away and playing video games and how I was forcing my children to learn what I think was important and how that would ruin them.  I guess we will see when the kids are grown, but I have no problem with continueing to be the big ol' meanie and expect them to get an education

[Guest submarines]

Did they actually use the word "ruin" or are you paraphrasing? I've seen a number of such discussions in various homeschooling groups, and I've never seen anyone claim that a certain way to homeschool will *ruin a child." Usually it is a concern about their internal motivation and the ability to make decisions (from unschoolers) or about their ability to follow through with tasks which are "unpleasant" or difficult (from school-at-homers). Both are valid concerns, I think. I wouldn't stay in a group if its members were using such terms as "your way of schooling is ruining your child." That's just crazy talking.

 

OP, this group obviously upsets you. Why are you there? Is this a supportive  / useful group in other respects? What do you get out of being there? If the group is mostly for unschoolers, I'd expect the unschoolers speak up--though politely, of course.

[swellmomma]

Did they actually use the word "ruin" or are you paraphrasing? I've seen a number of such discussions in various homeschooling groups, and I've never seen anyone claim that a certain way to homeschool will *ruin a child." Usually it is a concern about their internal motivation and the ability to make decisions (from unschoolers) or about their ability to follow through with tasks which are "unpleasant" or difficult (from school-at-homers). Both are valid concerns, I think. I wouldn't stay in a group if its members were using such terms as "your way of schooling is ruining your child." That's just crazy talking.

 

OP, this group obviously upsets you. Why are you there? Is this a supportive  / useful group in other respects? What do you get out of being there? If the group is mostly for unschoolers, I'd expect the unschoolers speak up--though politely, of course.

No the guy actually used the word ruin.  It does not actually upset me, I find it funny which is why I posted it here.  As for the group I left it after that thread.  I joined it because it said it was unschooling/homeschooling/parenting concerns and questions.  It often had ideas of things posted that were fun, links to blogs etc.  On the whole good.  The unschoolers are for sure the most vocal on there, but the majority of them are pretty open to how other people educate their kids whether they are unschoolers or not.  But this one person in particular insists on jumping onto every topic to point out how the person is wrong if they are not unschooling and brow beat it into people that it is the only right way to be.  The group owner is the one that normally posts the links and ideas etc but as of late has been following behind this guy saying how right he is and only unschoolers would get it etc.  I generally just ignore it but today decided to ask questions of the unschoolers on that thread but the only ones that responded where those 2 until a 3rd jumped in to say if I just tried harder and grew a garden I wouldn't have to work and make my children suffer having a mother not home 24/7.  As it turns out the math worksheet posted belongs to one of our members here and she posted to a local group so I am very glad I stepped up and said that I can understand the mother's pov and agreed with her.  Had I said nothing the whole conversation would have never happened, but the whole thing that started it was unwarranted.  At any rate, I left that group but then posted here because I found it funny and knew I would find some kindred spirits here.

[Catwoman]

I think a big part of this has been caused by the welfare mentality. Why does it matter if you know how to work, or have a desire to, if food is just provided for you? I'm not saying unschoolers are all on welfare. I'm not even talking about unschoolers. Just parents who don't care if their kids ever amount to anything, or know how to use a vacuum.

I'm 50 years old and still don't have strong vacuuming skills. I have done all right otherwise, though, despite the fact that I never had to do any chores as a kid or a teen, and I haven't done many as an adult, either. My ds doesn't have chores, and my dh and I are fine with that.

 

I have nothing against parents who have their kids do chores, as whatever works for their family is fine with me, but I do resent it when people judge my choices to the point where they say that kids that don't do chores will never amount to anything.

 

That is simply ridiculous.

[Guest]

I haven't read the socioeconomic class comments because http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/521742-generalized-menopause-anxiety-thread-ask-a-question-get-an-honest-answer/

so I'm avoiding drama, but I did want to mention that Somebody Domineering behaved in an extremely classist and dismissive manner towards me when ds1 was a teen.

Just a heads up.

 

John Holt and the Hegeners are a much better use of your precious time.

 

/Iron Ethel Flint

[*Lulu*]

I'm 50 years old and still don't have strong vacuuming skills. I have done all right otherwise, though, despite the fact that I never had to do any chores as a kid or a teen, and I haven't done many as an adult, either. My ds doesn't have chores, and my dh and I are fine with that.

 

I have nothing against parents who have their kids do chores, as whatever works for their family is fine with me, but I do resent it when people judge my choices to the point where they say that kids that don't do chores will never amount to anything.

 

That is simply ridiculous.

I agree. We are big into everyone pitching in and doing chores, but if that is all that we are doing toward building the skills for successful transition into adulthood ......we are so hosed!

 

I can totally empathize with Swellmomma's OP. I have run into a few people over the years who have been experts at pointing out the faults and flaws of others.

 

Too many kids- obviously neglected*

Only one child- obviously selfish*

Homeschool- obviously unsocialized*

Public school- obviously undereducated*

Private school- obviously overindulged*

Blah-ba-dee-blah-blah-blah.....

 

 

Can't win for losing with this sort.

 

 

*the child will wind up a serial killer

[Catwoman]

I agree. We are big into everyone pitching in and doing chores, but if that was all that we were doing toward building the skills for successful transition into adulthood ......we are so hosed!

 

I can totally empathize with Swellmomma's OP. I have run into a few people over the years who have been experts at pointing out the faults and flaws of others.

 

Too many kids- obviously neglected*

Only one child- obviously selfish*

Homeschool- obviously unsocialized*

Public school- obviously undereducated*

Private school- obviously overindulged*

Blah-ba-dee-blah-blah-blah.....

 

 

Can't soon for losing with this sort.

 

 

*the child will wind up a serial killer

:iagree:

[MrsJewelsRae]

Don't mind unschooling, not for me, but radical unschooling is out there and I left a board years ago that had too many of that flavour. Don't make your kid brush their teeth, no tv or media limits, kid chooses whatever food they want to eat, they'll magically learn how to read when they're ready to, etc. they were very judgy. Conversely, I also sometimes find certain "advanced " "school in a box" curriculum users IRL are very condescending on curriculum choices outside of theirs. To each their own, but stay off my back and outta my face tyvm. ;)

[swellmomma]

Don't mind unschooling, not for me, but radical unschooling is out there and I left a board years ago that had too many of that flavour. Don't make your kid brush their teeth, no tv or media limits, kid chooses whatever food they want to eat, they'll magically learn how to read when they're ready to, etc. they were very judgy. Conversely, I also sometimes find certain "advanced " "school in a box" curriculum users IRL are very condescending on curriculum choices outside of theirs. To each their own, but stay off my back and outta my face tyvm. ;)

haha we had the tooth brushing discussion last week.  I mean that way too because don't you know it is better that they learn the natural consequences of cavities then have a parent telling them to brush their teeth.  If they get enough cavities they will learn to brush their teeth themselves.  Personally I prefer to go with the ounce of protection instead

[Catwoman]

haha we had the tooth brushing discussion last week. I mean that way too because don't you know it is better that they learn the natural consequences of cavities then have a parent telling them to brush their teeth. If they get enough cavities they will learn to brush their teeth themselves. Personally I prefer to go with the ounce of protection instead

:iagree:

 

It's one thing to allow for natural consequences, and another to set a kid up for a possible lifetime of tooth and gum problems. Also, there's such a thing as helping a kid establish some basic good habits.

 

The toothbrushing thing is WEIRD! I'd never heard that one before right now!

[kiana]

Yeah, leave that group, start another one called the Mean Mommies club. Then invite the other person with the crayoned math worksheet.

[Guest]

haha we had the tooth brushing discussion last week. I mean that way too because don't you know it is better that they learn the natural consequences of cavities then have a parent telling them to brush their teeth. If they get enough cavities they will learn to brush their teeth themselves. Personally I prefer to go with the ounce of protection instead

Heehee. I told my kids they must brush their teeth because I already spent all the dental money on braces!

[Catwoman]

Heehee. I told my kids they must brush their teeth because I already spent all the dental money on braces!

Mean Mom. :glare:

 

;) ;) ;) ;)

 

.

[Jenny in GA]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I have to chime in on this one, as I was active in the unschooling community for a few years, most of them when my kids were "pre-school" age.

 

I think homeschoolers should be aware of what unschoolers do and advocate, if they aren't already.

 

 

Here are some real quotes from unschoolers -- most of them well-known in the community, unschooling conference speakers, etc. Some of these were specifically said AT an unschooling conference.

 

 

"When my daughter was about eleven, she went through a period where she watched Roseanne reruns for eight hours a day for about six weeks. It was great because she learned a lot about plot and character development."

 

 

"My teenage son is getting a fabulous education from watching World of Warcraft about thirty hours a week, most of it while we're asleep."

 

 

"My daughter still couldn't read when she was eleven, but she had better social skills than most kids her age. "

 

 

"My five year old has unusual sleeping needs, and sometimes I have to get up at midnight to make her macaroni and cheese and things like that ... yes, it's a pain, but I try to do it without complaining."

 

 

"My five year old refused to brush or comb her hair for a year. Sometimes it made me cringe, but I hung in there, and finally after a years she made the decision herself to let us cut out the big greasy wad that had built it. Hurray!"

 

 

"My kids can sleep anywhere and anytime they want."

 

 

"My five year old has different sleep needs than I do. Often I wake up in the morning and pass her in the hallway, as she is heading to bed!"

 

 

"I overheard a woman at the park tell her children, 'I packed some strawberries, but first eat a few carrot sticks.' That is abusive parenting."

 

 

 

And don't even get me started on the "don't ever insisted that they clean up after themselves or do any chores" bit. I tried and tried to make that work, as everybody insisted that it made their kids wonderfully generous, helpful, and have tons of initiative. I could not make it work for us.

 

I always feel a little like an "unschool failure" because apparently it works well for a lot of people. I never took it to the extreme most of them do, and sometimes I felt guilty about that. I don't think about it or follow those sites anymore, but seeing this thread brings back a lot of memories!

 

Okay, now I will read the rest of the thread, and then probably weigh in again.

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

LOL I think this discussion is perfect for a Sunday afternoon when I'm sitting around not doing my work.

 

I had a lot of chores as a kid.  My kid sister did not.  I am glad I had to learn all that stuff - including how to manage a bunch of them at once and over the long term.  But I must admit that my kid sister is a more obsessive housekeeper than I am.  Not sure if that is a good or bad thing....

 

My kids don't have many chores and I feel a bit guilty about that.  Like I may be ruining them for life.  So it's refreshing to see the other side, just for laughs.

[Catwoman]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I have to chime in on this one, as I was active in the unschooling community for a few years, most of them when my kids were "pre-school" age.

 

I think homeschoolers should be aware of what unschoolers do and advocate, if they aren't already.

 

 

Here are some real quotes from unschoolers -- most of them well-known in the community, unschooling conference speakers, etc. Some of these were specifically said AT an unschooling conference.

 

 

"When my daughter was about eleven, she went through a period where she watched Roseanne reruns for eight hours a day for about six weeks. It was great because she learned a lot about plot and character development."

 

 

"My teenage son is getting a fabulous education from watching World of Warcraft about thirty hours a week, most of it while we're asleep."

 

 

"My daughter still couldn't read when she was eleven, but she had better social skills than most kids her age. "

 

 

"My five year old has unusual sleeping needs, and sometimes I have to get up at midnight to make her macaroni and cheese and things like that ... yes, it's a pain, but I try to do it without complaining."

 

 

"My five year old refused to brush or comb her hair for a year. Sometimes it made me cringe, but I hung in there, and finally after a years she made the decision herself to let us cut out the big greasy wad that had built it. Hurray!"

 

 

"My kids can sleep anywhere and anytime they want."

 

 

"My five year old has different sleep needs than I do. Often I wake up in the morning and pass her in the hallway, as she is heading to bed!"

 

 

"I overheard a woman at the park tell her children, 'I packed some strawberries, but first eat a few carrot sticks.' That is abusive parenting."

 

 

 

And don't even get me started on the "don't ever insisted that they clean up after themselves or do any chores" bit. I tried and tried to make that work, as everybody insisted that it made their kids wonderfully generous, helpful, and have tons of initiative. I could not make it work for us.

 

I always feel a little like an "unschool failure" because apparently it works well for a lot of people. I never took it to the extreme most of them do, and sometimes I felt guilty about that. I don't think about it or follow those sites anymore, but seeing this thread brings back a lot of memories!

 

Okay, now I will read the rest of the thread, and then probably weigh in again.

That's so interesting, because the unschoolers I have known have been nothing like that. They may not have used a specific curriculum, but they have actively presented their children with all kinds of educational opportunities.

 

The people you're talking about seem incredibly extreme, and I wouldn't be able to relate to them, either!

[kiana]

That's so interesting, because the unschoolers I have known have been nothing like that. They may not have used a specific curriculum, but they have actively presented their children with all kinds of educational opportunities.

 

The people you're talking about seem incredibly extreme, and I wouldn't be able to relate to them, either!

 

This is partly why I had no interaction with other homeschoolers when I was a child. There was one group which was very much like the group represented by the above group, and one group that was VERY conservative, girls in long dresses with long sleeves, Abeka down the line, separate events for boys and girls of all ages -- we fit in with neither. My father called them the Jesus crowd and the "wispy beards and bean sprouts" crowd.

[wintermom]

The conversation didn't start off as trying to change minds, I was asking honest questions about how they approach those things.  It was the other poster that started turning it into a personal attack rather than just answering the questions.  My first post on the thread was only to show the mom they were making fun of didn't deserve it, that her pov was valid, and could be understood if you followed a different philosophy.  I never imagined it would turn into telling me how I am ruining my kids by having expectations at all of them.

 

This reminds me of that old saying, PLUTOE = People Live Up To Our Expectations.  If you expect someone to do something that requires hard work and dedication, you have a good chance of getting that. If you expect nothing concrete, that's often what you'll get.