TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I talk to other homeschoolers (and read posts on this forum) where people say they can finish up 2nd grade in 2.5 hours. I am wondering how they do that?! Am I scheduling too much? If so, what can I cut? Are my curricula choices making my day seem so long? If so, what should I change? (Right now I am using something separate for grammar, writing, reading, spelling, and handwriting!) I am hesitant to make changes to our curricula because a) I want to avoid gaps, and b) I don't want to spend additional money since I already purchased stuff. FYI... I have a 7.5 year old, a 6 year old, and a baby who is nearly walking. My 7.5 year old and 6 year old are working together in most subjects. My #1 priority subject this year is getting my two older children reading at grade level and fluently. Right now we are using AAR, but it just seems to be taking forever to get them reading. I feel like they are behind many children their age in reading despite daily, consistent work in the subject. On an IDEAL day my schedule looks like this. We almost always fall behind this ideal schedule and school can sometimes take until 4PM if we get side tracked, take too long on reading/math, take too long switching gears between subjects (putting away materials, giving the baby attention, etc.) 8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting 8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) 10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2) 11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) 12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 2:30PM-Finished *NOTE 1: Our first problem starts at 8AM typically. I am trying to start earlier so we can finish earlier. BUT On some days my husband doesn't leave for work until 8:30 which gives us a late start. OR, a kid will dawdle with getting dressed, finishing breakfast, etc. So we realistically probably start our day at 8:30AM a lot of the time. **NOTE 2: I know FLL doesn't take a full 30 minutes, but sometimes we go a little longer in reading. (I let the kids finish the story they are reading or something.) OR, we lose time switching between subjects, so scheduling a full 30 minute block helps us not to get too far off track. ***NOTE 3: I've tried moving read alouds to before bed several times. The problem is, my DH usually does bed time with the older kids while I get the baby to sleep. And read alouds just don't get accomplished when he is doing bed time. (He has good intentions, but if I want them to happen I have realized I need to fit them into our day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I talk to other homeschoolers (and read posts on this forum) where people say they can finish up 2nd grade in 2.5 hours. I am wondering how they do that?! Am I scheduling too much? If so, what can I cut? Are my curricula choices making my day seem so long? If so, what should I change? (Right now I am using something separate for grammar, writing, reading, spelling, and handwriting!) I am hesitant to make changes to our curricula because a) I want to avoid gaps, and B) I don't want to spend additional money since I already purchased stuff. FYI... I have a 7.5 year old, a 6 year old, and a baby who is nearly walking. My 7.5 year old and 6 year old are working together in most subjects. My #1 priority subject this year is getting my two older children reading at grade level and fluently. Right now we are using AAR, but it just seems to be taking forever to get them reading. I feel like they are behind many children their age in reading despite daily, consistent work in the subject. On an IDEAL day my schedule looks like this. We almost always fall behind this ideal schedule and school can sometimes take until 4PM if we get side tracked, take too long on reading/math, take too long switching gears between subjects (putting away materials, giving the baby attention, etc.) 8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting 8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) 10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2) 11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) 12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 2:30PM-Finished *NOTE 1: Our first problem starts at 8AM typically. I am trying to start earlier so we can finish earlier. BUT On some days my husband doesn't leave for work until 8:30 which gives us a late start. OR, a kid will dawdle with getting dressed, finishing breakfast, etc. So we realistically probably start our day at 8:30AM a lot of the time. **NOTE 2: I know FLL doesn't take a full 30 minutes, but sometimes we go a little longer in reading. (I let the kids finish the story they are reading or something.) OR, we lose time switching between subjects, so scheduling a full 30 minute block helps us not to get too far off track. ***NOTE 3: I've tried moving read alouds to before bed several times. The problem is, my DH usually does bed time with the older kids while I get the baby to sleep. And read alouds just don't get accomplished when he is doing bed time. (He has good intentions, but if I want them to happen I have realized I need to fit them into our day.) See, with children as young as yours, *I* wouldn't be doing FLL *and* AAS *and* copywork/dictation/et al. I would probably not have them do the reading, either (other than phonics instruction). So, for English skills, you have spelling *and* grammar *and* writing *and* reading *and* penmanship. That's a boatload for such young children, IMHO. And then you have the Sonlight read-alouds daily. I'm sort of overwhelmed just reading it. Of course, that could be because I was just way more relaxed with my dc's learning when they were that young. :-) In my relaxed world, I would probably just have copywork and dictation; read aloud from a good book, one chapter a day from one book (we did it at lunch), math, and the science/history rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Can you do Bible and read-aloud during breakfast? That's how I've done both those subjects. My kids eat breakfast at 7am, then we start school at 8am with the academic subjects (math, etc.). When my oldest did FLL/WWE, I used WWE only 3 times per week. You could alternate the two, doing more than one lesson of FLL at a time and combining the narration-only day with the copywork-only day in WWE. Then you'd cut out a half hour slot. I didn't do the stuff in your Enrichment subjects list, and I don't count Bible as school when saying how many hours it takes us. I also never did separate reading and spelling programs at the same time - it was one or the other or the two combined into one program (my rising 2nd grader will be doing LOE which combines the two). I think our WWE/FLL slot usually took 15 minutes, but I understand the derailment that baby and/or dawdling can take, so I usually allotted 30 minutes as well. :D And if the kids aren't reading well, I wouldn't put as much energy into grammar/writing quite yet. My oldest did writing and grammar in 2nd grade, but he was reading very well, so we had no "reading instruction time". My rising 2nd grader this year will just be doing LOE for language arts, and we'll likely skip much of the grammar portion (we'll talk about the stuff at the beginning that I think he's ready for, but once it gets beyond his current ability level, I'll drop that portion). We'll hit grammar in 3rd grade, most likely. LOE will count as his writing, since he'll be writing words, phrases, and sentences in that. Again, in 3rd grade, we'll probably start more of a writing program. But if he can't read the sentences, why bother with much copywork? My focus for him is getting him reading well (he's slightly behind grade level, but has made excellent progress). The other stuff will fall into place when his reading is established. We're not starting cursive yet, but handwriting is incorporated into our LOE time. You could do the same with AAS or copywork - anything that involves writing, make it handwriting time also... unless they're still learning the letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I agree with the previous posters, way too much language arts for non-fluent readers. Grammar, writing/handwriting, and spelling should be about 30 minutes total, not 30 minutes each. Consider dropping grammar and spelling until your children are reading fluently. This would shave an hour off your morning schedule. Alternate days of cursive handwriting and writing or combine the two. You could have your children narrate from history, science, geography and/or selected read aloud titles. Does AAR really take 30 minutes per child? Would your day flow better if you rearranged your schedule? Have you tried Bible or reading aloud first thing in the morning, then moving on to core subjects? Consider a lunchtime read aloud or audio book. History/science/geography and enrichment pair up nicely for afternoon study. Or move history/science/geography to the first lesson of the day followed by math and language arts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The only thing that stands out to me in your schedule is that you are doubled up with handwriting...I would choose either a handwriting curriculum or copywork, not both. And I don't think WWE is supposed to take half an hour; at that age my goal is a couple lines of copywork OR (after I read history or something aloud) copying the oral narration they dictated to me and I wrote for them to copy. So that is an hour off your schedule :) I have a rising 2nd grader, and the reason he will be done in 2-3 hours every day is that he has two older siblings who also need me to teach them. So his spelling is independent (R&S), his handwriting workbook is independent, science is combined with an older sibling, enrichment stuff (nature study, music, etc.) is on his own time, and that leaves him only needing me for math, phonics, grammar, history (on the days we don't do science), and then he reads to me for Bible (R&S readers) and I read a chapter from a book to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 So, for English skills, you have spelling *and* grammar *and* writing *and* reading *and* penmanship. That's a boatload for such young children, IMHO. I completely agree. That's a lot of seatwork for a 2nd grader. I don't do grammar in 2nd grade. I know that's heretical here, but I learned a long time ago that it's not worth spending hours on it in the early years when I can teach the same content in 2 weeks once they're a bit older. We'll talk about what nouns and verbs are in the course of other learning, but I don't use a curriculum for grammar until later. In 2nd grade, my kids do spelling (about 20 mins), handwriting (10 mins) and lots of reading. This past year, my 2nd grader used Apples and Pears Spelling and Abeka cursive. He read on his own and with me. I use narrations to build composition skills, and don't bother with a formal writing program. I make blank books with a stack of plain white paper and a stapler, and let my kids draw and write their own stories. (Those are really funny to pull out when your kid graduates high school, by the way!) I also don't use a schedule with set times. Instead, I use a routine, because that makes the learning more organic and the day flows more naturally. History reading just seems like storytime, because it's not penciled into a schedule as "history." For the enrichment subjects, we did tea-time on Friday afternoons where we covered those in an informal way. When my girls were really young, I'd put the week's art selection on the wall, talk about it for a few minutes and call that good enough. To a certain extent, you'll lose some time to bouncing back and forth between kids. That's just the way it is when you've got little ones. I remember feeling like a ping pong ball for a couple of years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Personally, I think you have way too much planned for your kids. You have 5.5 solid hours planned. When my kids were in 2nd, we finished in about 2 hours. We did history and science on rotations, we did a few minutes of memory work, we did math, and we rotated grammar and writing. I think we might have even done some Spanish at that age, too. The only things the kids did daily were history or science and math. Everything else was rotated. I would also imagine that a significant amount of time is lost in transitions just because you are asking them to work for such a long, sustained time. Two hours of focused work with no break is too long at that age, imo. And they probably slow down in their work as they go through the day because they become mentally fatigued. Were it me, I would redo things so that I did history and science each two days a week and cut geography. They don't need it at that age. Mapwork in history is sufficient. I would dump AAR and AAS because they are very time consuming and find something that you can use with both kid at the same time or can be done independently. I would do writing 3 days a week, at most. Read to them while they eat lunch. Cut your enrichments to two days a week and rotate them. So I would have 30 mins of history or science, 30 minutes of math, 30 minutes of reading instruction and spelling combined, 20 minutes of writing 3 days a week and grammar on the other 2 days (although honestly, having been through 1st and 2nd grade grammar with both a highly proficient student and struggling one, I consider grammar a waste of time at that age), read-alouds during lunch, and 30 minutes of enrichment twice a week. That's 2 hours, 20 minutes + read-alouds during lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmpmelmack Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I would cut grammar and spelling. They both go quickly when reading fluently is accomplished. Then add WWE skills to your content time. Narrate after hist/sci/geo and have copywork or dictation to match that subject. If they know how to make all the cursive letters then use the copy work for practice. I would do something like this: 8 math 830 to 930 reading 930 to 10 content 10 to 1030 snack and read aloud 11 to 1130 enrichment 1130 to 1230 lunch clean up and bible. Done Maybe switch content and snack? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I agree-cut grammar and either spelling or phonics can be combined. It depends how well they are reading, but I skipped right to AAS after my 6 yo started reading fairly fluently and it's basically phonics and spelling combined. No need for both, IMHO. Grammar can be part of copywork or wholly skipped at those ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Another person just jumping in to question why you are doing so much LA with kids who are not even reading well. Choose either handwriting or copywork and drop grammar until they can read. HTH- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I agree about LA. I would also rearrange the schedule, putting more content in the morning, but I am a fan of group stuff in the morning and individual, one-on-one work in the afternoon. I also wonder if Bible could be moved to the evening and done as a family. I would definitely move bedtimes to make way for read-alouds, but I wouldn't do Sonlight/school read alouds then, just nice literature. Can you move baby's bedtime 15 minutes earlier and the older kids' 15 minutes later? That would give you 30 minutes of good reading time with them. I also think a big problem is that you are shooting yourself in the foot by feeling like school should start at 8 even though it frequently cannot. Just change that to 8:30. It will keep you from feeling behind from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramorellis Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I will say that with my 2nd grader we do not finish in 2 hours, more like 4. 30- 45 min. of that time is spent on him reading to himself, an hour for math and the rest shoved in there. I would say that your primary concern needs to be on them reading fluently. I don't see the point in dictation and spelling if they can't read well. Grammar and spelling will be helped greatly by some reading fluency. So I would drop most of the LA and just focus on the AAR until they are up to speed. I think you will be surprised how much you don't have to teach once they get there. If it were me, I would drop writing, spelling, grammar and cursive for the moment. It's like potty training. When they are ready for it, it will just click and you won't need to spend that much time on it. Focus on getting them up to speed in reading, do math and keep your enrichments (those are the things my kids like best) and don't stress about it. As for read aloud, can you move the bed time routine up half an hour so he can get some story time in there? This is what my DH does so they aren't stressing and running around and he can relax and read to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Here is what I would do (ish) in your shoes: 8:30-9:00 - leisurely breakfast with morning meeting, including Bible if you want to keep it as part of the school day 9:00-9:30 - SM2A (Keep in mind math will start taking longer soon.) 9:30-10:30 - History/Science/Geography, depending on day; includes read-alouds from Sonlight list; make busy boxes for baby. 10:30-11:00 - older kids have recess while you play with or read to the baby 11:00-11:30 - one-on-one LA with oldest child while second plays with baby 11:30-12:00 - one-on-one LA with second child while oldest plays with baby [Or, alternatively, as reading improves, consider a 30-45 minute writing workshop for both kids from 11-11:30/45 and add the time gained to enrichments, content subjects, or recess. You can cover a LOT of LA very efficiently through writing.] 12:00-12:30 - enrichments (I almost always end the morning with art, getting them started with a project that they can keep working on while I get lunch together.) 12:30-1:30 - lunch/recess (I read lit aloud, but my kids are older and I don't have a baby to tend to.) 1:30-2:00 one-on-one reading with oldest child while baby naps or second plays with baby 2:00-2:30 - one-on-one reading with second child while baby naps or oldest plays with baby Read-aloud lit at bedtime. It's just so doggone worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I don't even necessarily think that you need to cut that much from your LA slate. It's more the amount of time you're spending on those things. Set a timer and don't spend more than fifteen minutes on FLL, AAR, or AAS. Dump cursive and do handwriting through copywork. Or alternate days for it. Even if you keep handwriting, why is that a full half hour as well? Most of those things should be bing, bam, boom, done. I do think LA can take more than 30 minutes at this age, but it should not be that each of those components takes anywhere near a full half hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and give me feedback. I want to respond to each of you when I get some more time. But a couple of common things I want to say are.... 1) Cursive Handwriting at this point is JUST learning letter formation. So I can't combine with copywork or spelling, etc. They are doing copywork and spelling in manuscript. I would just skip this subject, but this is something they asked to learn this year. 2) Reading instruction is just phonics/learning to read at this point. Just to clarify, that is what I mean when I say, "reading". I'm not doing some veritas press reading comprehension program or something. Our lesson consists of some direct phonics instruction and practice. Then they read to me from a fluency sheet or reader. That takes me about 20-30 minutes. I also don't see how I can combine this with kids. I feel like this is one subject where they need my individual attention and ability to work at their own speed. They also seem to really need individualized review, etc. 3) Reading durring meals (breakfast, lunch, snack, etc.) - I WISH I could make reading during meals work. That is what I used to do when the kids were younger. However, the baby eats with us now which means he needs a lot of my focused attention. Juggling him and the book was just not working out. I also am nursing full time / working out a lot---so I get REALLY hungry durring the day. I need a 30 minute break where I can eat too or my blood sugar drops which makes for a cranky mama! 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) I've taught grammar in the early years, but only after I considered my kids fluent readers, at least on grade level. We've always done copywork and narration starting in 1st, but it doesn't take much time at all. ETA: I get it about cursive instruction being separate, but 30 minutes is a looooooong time to work on handwriting. I would say 5-10 minutes, best effort only, during their writing block, and call it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) I think it's good to learn grammar, but... I think it's one of those things that can take a huge amount of time if you try to learn it in the early grades in a really serious fashion, but only takes a short time to catch up with those concepts if you start later when a child can already read well and has so much more context. There are a number of things like that which are often emphasized in the early years but which can be really developmentally onerous for kids to get. I mean, teaching many 6 yos to tell time can take eons. Teaching most 9 yos to tell time takes an hour or two and a few days of practice to get it down. So just keep that sort of thing in perspective at this age. As for copywork, one of the benefits of copywork should be that it allows you to introduce grammar, literature, writing mechanics, memory, handwriting, and vocabulary all at once in one simple exercise. But if a child isn't ready to employ all of those things yet... then sometimes they're not ready for much copywork or dictation yet. Which is fine. It's better to put your efforts into the stuff they need more. I think a lot of people are basically saying, not don't do copywork, but don't spend so much time on it if you've got kids who are still working on basic reading mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I'm not exactly a relaxed homeschooler; I demand quite a bit of my DD, but that schedule seems a bit much for a 6-7 year old. My 4th grade DS is coming home for school next year and I don't expect he'll be plugging away that long. For him, I expect 4 hours will be plenty. I know "hitting the books" isn't popular on this forum, but I am not an unschooler and it's a base for me. But even by those uptight standards, if your kids are actually on the books that long and not taking long breaks/out for some lessons or another, I'd try and cut back. I think at that age, I would definitely ditch the spelling, writing, geography, and grammar (until they were reading well, anyway), and unschool art/music/nature study. You can always add them back in if you really feel you need to. Perhaps you can give DH the Bible reads and that can be their nighttime story? I talk to other homeschoolers (and read posts on this forum) where people say they can finish up 2nd grade in 2.5 hours. I am wondering how they do that?! Am I scheduling too much? If so, what can I cut? Are my curricula choices making my day seem so long? If so, what should I change? (Right now I am using something separate for grammar, writing, reading, spelling, and handwriting!) I am hesitant to make changes to our curricula because a) I want to avoid gaps, and B) I don't want to spend additional money since I already purchased stuff. FYI... I have a 7.5 year old, a 6 year old, and a baby who is nearly walking. My 7.5 year old and 6 year old are working together in most subjects. My #1 priority subject this year is getting my two older children reading at grade level and fluently. Right now we are using AAR, but it just seems to be taking forever to get them reading. I feel like they are behind many children their age in reading despite daily, consistent work in the subject. On an IDEAL day my schedule looks like this. We almost always fall behind this ideal schedule and school can sometimes take until 4PM if we get side tracked, take too long on reading/math, take too long switching gears between subjects (putting away materials, giving the baby attention, etc.) 8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting 8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) 10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2) 11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) 12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 2:30PM-Finished *NOTE 1: Our first problem starts at 8AM typically. I am trying to start earlier so we can finish earlier. BUT On some days my husband doesn't leave for work until 8:30 which gives us a late start. OR, a kid will dawdle with getting dressed, finishing breakfast, etc. So we realistically probably start our day at 8:30AM a lot of the time. **NOTE 2: I know FLL doesn't take a full 30 minutes, but sometimes we go a little longer in reading. (I let the kids finish the story they are reading or something.) OR, we lose time switching between subjects, so scheduling a full 30 minute block helps us not to get too far off track. ***NOTE 3: I've tried moving read alouds to before bed several times. The problem is, my DH usually does bed time with the older kids while I get the baby to sleep. And read alouds just don't get accomplished when he is doing bed time. (He has good intentions, but if I want them to happen I have realized I need to fit them into our day.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 My DD came from public school in 6th grade and knew no grammar, and I mean none. In less than a year, she was able to learn the parts of speech, parts of a sentence, types of phrases, and types of clauses and identify each, even in complex sentences. So I think your children would be able to pick that up at the 3/4 grade level really easily, once they become fluent readers. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and give me feedback. I want to respond to each of you when I get some more time. But a couple of common things I want to say are.... 1) Cursive Handwriting at this point is JUST learning letter formation. So I can't combine with copywork or spelling, etc. They are doing copywork and spelling in manuscript. I would just skip this subject, but this is something they asked to learn this year. 2) Reading instruction is just phonics/learning to read at this point. Just to clarify, that is what I mean when I say, "reading". I'm not doing some veritas press reading comprehension program or something. Our lesson consists of some direct phonics instruction and practice. Then they read to me from a fluency sheet or reader. That takes me about 20-30 minutes. I also don't see how I can combine this with kids. I feel like this is one subject where they need my individual attention and ability to work at their own speed. They also seem to really need individualized review, etc. 3) Reading durring meals (breakfast, lunch, snack, etc.) - I WISH I could make reading during meals work. That is what I used to do when the kids were younger. However, the baby eats with us now which means he needs a lot of my focused attention. Juggling him and the book was just not working out. I also am nursing full time / working out a lot---so I get REALLY hungry durring the day. I need a 30 minute break where I can eat too or my blood sugar drops which makes for a cranky mama! 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and give me feedback. I want to respond to each of you when I get some more time. But a couple of common things I want to say are.... 1) Cursive Handwriting at this point is JUST learning letter formation. So I can't combine with copywork or spelling, etc. They are doing copywork and spelling in manuscript. I would just skip this subject, but this is something they asked to learn this year. 2) Reading instruction is just phonics/learning to read at this point. Just to clarify, that is what I mean when I say, "reading". I'm not doing some veritas press reading comprehension program or something. Our lesson consists of some direct phonics instruction and practice. Then they read to me from a fluency sheet or reader. That takes me about 20-30 minutes. I also don't see how I can combine this with kids. I feel like this is one subject where they need my individual attention and ability to work at their own speed. They also seem to really need individualized review, etc. 3) Reading durring meals (breakfast, lunch, snack, etc.) - I WISH I could make reading during meals work. That is what I used to do when the kids were younger. However, the baby eats with us now which means he needs a lot of my focused attention. Juggling him and the book was just not working out. I also am nursing full time / working out a lot---so I get REALLY hungry durring the day. I need a 30 minute break where I can eat too or my blood sugar drops which makes for a cranky mama! 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) You asked us what we thought, and we think you're doing way too much for "language arts" altogether. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 I would probably not have them do the reading, either (other than phonics instruction). So, for English skills, you have spelling *and* grammar *and* writing *and* reading *and* penmanship. That's a boatload for such young children, IMHO. And then you have the Sonlight read-alouds daily. I'm sort of overwhelmed just reading it. Of course, that could be because I was just way more relaxed with my dc's learning when they were that young. :-) In my relaxed world, I would probably just have copywork and dictation; read aloud from a good book, one chapter a day from one book (we did it at lunch), math, and the science/history rotation. When I say reading, I mean they are learning how to read. I like your 'relaxed world'---However, don't you think they need to work on reading too in first in second grade? Or, at the very least, don't I need to have them read daily so they can practice this skill? Our sonlight list is NOT history btw. It is just listening to literature read aloud. Can you do Bible and read-aloud during breakfast? That's how I've done both those subjects. My kids eat breakfast at 7am, then we start school at 8am with the academic subjects (math, etc.). When my oldest did FLL/WWE, I used WWE only 3 times per week. You could alternate the two, doing more than one lesson of FLL at a time and combining the narration-only day with the copywork-only day in WWE. Then you'd cut out a half hour slot. I think our WWE/FLL slot usually took 15 minutes, but I understand the derailment that baby and/or dawdling can take, so I usually allotted 30 minutes as well. :D But if he can't read the sentences, why bother with much copywork? My focus for him is getting him reading well (he's slightly behind grade level, but has made excellent progress). The other stuff will fall into place when his reading is established. Sadly, bible during breakfast hasn't been working out very well since our new addition. But that was a good idea! I also like your idea of combining FLL and WWE into one 'subject'. I'm going to look at that and see if I can make it work. OR just make WWE part of our history/science study. Concerning copywork, I pull our copywork sentences from their readers. So they do know how to read and spell all of the words they copy. We use our copywork time to reenforce phonics concepts/spelling rules, basic sentence structure, and capitalization, etc. I agree with the previous posters, way too much language arts for non-fluent readers. Grammar, writing/handwriting, and spelling should be about 30 minutes total, not 30 minutes each. Consider dropping grammar and spelling until your children are reading fluently. This would shave an hour off your morning schedule. Alternate days of cursive handwriting and writing or combine the two. You could have your children narrate from history, science, geography and/or selected read aloud titles. Does AAR really take 30 minutes per child? Would your day flow better if you rearranged your schedule? Have you tried Bible or reading aloud first thing in the morning, then moving on to core subjects? Consider a lunchtime read aloud or audio book. History/science/geography and enrichment pair up nicely for afternoon study. Or move history/science/geography to the first lesson of the day followed by math and language arts. Thanks for your reply. I have no idea how to cover grammar, cursive handwriting, spelling, copywork, and narration into one 30 minute lesson. Could you give me an idea of what that might look like in real life? that seems like a great idea on paper, but I'm not sure how that would work in implementation. And yes, maybe my day would flow better if I rearranged some things. That is what I'm trying to figure out. The only thing that stands out to me in your schedule is that you are doubled up with handwriting...I would choose either a handwriting curriculum or copywork, not both. And I don't think WWE is supposed to take half an hour; at that age my goal is a couple lines of copywork OR (after I read history or something aloud) copying the oral narration they dictated to me and I wrote for them to copy. So that is an hour off your schedule :) I have a rising 2nd grader, and the reason he will be done in 2-3 hours every day is that he has two older siblings who also need me to teach them. So his spelling is independent (R&S), his handwriting workbook is independent, science is combined with an older sibling, enrichment stuff (nature study, music, etc.) is on his own time, and that leaves him only needing me for math, phonics, grammar, history (on the days we don't do science), and then he reads to me for Bible (R&S readers) and I read a chapter from a book to him. I like your idea about doing WWE with our content subjects. That will cut out one of my 30 minute blocks. And perhaps I should have picked curricula they could do independently for school. I completely agree. That's a lot of seatwork for a 2nd grader. I don't do grammar in 2nd grade. I know that's heretical here, but I learned a long time ago that it's not worth spending hours on it in the early years when I can teach the same content in 2 weeks once they're a bit older. We'll talk about what nouns and verbs are in the course of other learning, but I don't use a curriculum for grammar until later. In 2nd grade, my kids do spelling (about 20 mins), handwriting (10 mins) and lots of reading. This past year, my 2nd grader used Apples and Pears Spelling and Abeka cursive. He read on his own and with me. I use narrations to build composition skills, and don't bother with a formal writing program. I make blank books with a stack of plain white paper and a stapler, and let my kids draw and write their own stories. (Those are really funny to pull out when your kid graduates high school, by the way!) I also don't use a schedule with set times. Instead, I use a routine, because that makes the learning more organic and the day flows more naturally. History reading just seems like storytime, because it's not penciled into a schedule as "history." For the enrichment subjects, we did tea-time on Friday afternoons where we covered those in an informal way. When my girls were really young, I'd put the week's art selection on the wall, talk about it for a few minutes and call that good enough. To a certain extent, you'll lose some time to bouncing back and forth between kids. That's just the way it is when you've got little ones. I remember feeling like a ping pong ball for a couple of years! Just to clarify, our 'formal writing' IS just narration and copywork at this stage. That is basically what WWE is. I'm not doing IEW or something with them. ;) I just gave it the name 'writing' because I am using oral narration as a method of building their ability to take an abstract thought and put it into words. Also, just to clarify, our content subjects and enrichment subjects are covered in a gentle, casual way too. I don't announce, "LET'S DO HISTORY!"---I pull out some books and we read them, discuss them, and make drawings about them. (or do some oral narrations.) And I don't say, "LET'S STUDY ART." We casually look at art and discuss it the way you say you do/did. We also make notebooks for some of our enrichment subjects. I have given these 'subjects' names in order to facilitate conversation about my schedule in the forum...not because we make them something formal at home. That way people have a name to use when describing what we are doing. Does that make more sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 I would cut grammar and spelling. They both go quickly when reading fluently is accomplished. Then add WWE skills to your content time. Narrate after hist/sci/geo and have copywork or dictation to match that subject. If they know how to make all the cursive letters then use the copy work for practice. I would do something like this: 8 math 830 to 930 reading 930 to 10 content 10 to 1030 snack and read aloud 11 to 1130 enrichment 1130 to 1230 lunch clean up and bible. Done Maybe switch content and snack? Good luck! Thanks! I love your actual schedule. I am a former engineer and have a hard time thinking abstractly. ;) So I like how you laid it out. Another person just jumping in to question why you are doing so much LA with kids who are not even reading well. Choose either handwriting or copywork and drop grammar until they can read. HTH- Mandy Thanks for jumping in Mandy and for your feedback. Much appreciated. I agree about LA. I would also rearrange the schedule, putting more content in the morning, but I am a fan of group stuff in the morning and individual, one-on-one work in the afternoon. I also wonder if Bible could be moved to the evening and done as a family. I would definitely move bedtimes to make way for read-alouds, but I wouldn't do Sonlight/school read alouds then, just nice literature. Can you move baby's bedtime 15 minutes earlier and the older kids' 15 minutes later? That would give you 30 minutes of good reading time with them. I also think a big problem is that you are shooting yourself in the foot by feeling like school should start at 8 even though it frequently cannot. Just change that to 8:30. It will keep you from feeling behind from the get-go. Our sonlight read alouds are just nice literature/'for fun' books. Just to clarify, I'm not using them for history. I just use their literature suggestions as a 'good book list'. :) As I said before, reading aloud at bedtime has been tried many, many, many, many (insert three more 'manys") times. But I've yet to make it work consistently no matter how hard I have tried. At this point, I think I need to find a way to fit those into my day if they are important enough. (And I feel like they are important!) I will say that with my 2nd grader we do not finish in 2 hours, more like 4. 30- 45 min. of that time is spent on him reading to himself, an hour for math and the rest shoved in there. I would say that your primary concern needs to be on them reading fluently. I don't see the point in dictation and spelling if they can't read well. Grammar and spelling will be helped greatly by some reading fluency. So I would drop most of the LA and just focus on the AAR until they are up to speed. I think you will be surprised how much you don't have to teach once they get there. If it were me, I would drop writing, spelling, grammar and cursive for the moment. It's like potty training. When they are ready for it, it will just click and you won't need to spend that much time on it. Focus on getting them up to speed in reading, do math and keep your enrichments (those are the things my kids like best) and don't stress about it. As for read aloud, can you move the bed time routine up half an hour so he can get some story time in there? This is what my DH does so they aren't stressing and running around and he can relax and read to them. Maybe I need a summer intensive on just phonics / learning to read. (and drop everything else.) THEN, I can add in the other language arts subjects. My question is.... Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read? How can you be sure they are comprehending things? Or not skipping passages, etc. ? Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc? Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc. Am I wrong? So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud? As far as bedtime goes, read alouds just don't work then. My DH doesn't get home until close to 6:30PM-7:00PM. So that means we don't have a lot of time before bed to squeeze in everything that we want. By the time we eat as a family, spend time talking to one another, get the food put away, brush teeth, etc. ----read alouds are often skipped. We can make them happen every now and then, but not everyday. I know I COULD do away with eating together as a family, but that is something that we all treasure and would miss. It is a way we reconnect with one another and we have done it since the kids were babies. (They even say things like, "We can't eat without Daddy!") :) I just don't think that bed time read alouds are something I could make work consistently. I've tried asking DH to step up and do that, but it didn't happen consistently. Here is what I would do (ish) in your shoes: 8:30-9:00 - leisurely breakfast with morning meeting, including Bible if you want to keep it as part of the school day 9:00-9:30 - SM2A (Keep in mind math will start taking longer soon.) 9:30-10:30 - History/Science/Geography, depending on day; includes read-alouds from Sonlight list; make busy boxes for baby. 10:30-11:00 - older kids have recess while you play with or read to the baby 11:00-11:30 - one-on-one LA with oldest child while second plays with baby 11:30-12:00 - one-on-one LA with second child while oldest plays with baby [Or, alternatively, as reading improves, consider a 30-45 minute writing workshop for both kids from 11-11:30/45 and add the time gained to enrichments, content subjects, or recess. You can cover a LOT of LA very efficiently through writing.] 12:00-12:30 - enrichments (I almost always end the morning with art, getting them started with a project that they can keep working on while I get lunch together.) 12:30-1:30 - lunch/recess (I read lit aloud, but my kids are older and I don't have a baby to tend to.) 1:30-2:00 one-on-one reading with oldest child while baby naps or second plays with baby 2:00-2:30 - one-on-one reading with second child while baby naps or oldest plays with baby Read-aloud lit at bedtime. It's just so doggone worth it. Love your re-arrangement of my schedule and the details. Thank you. I don't even necessarily think that you need to cut that much from your LA slate. It's more the amount of time you're spending on those things. Set a timer and don't spend more than fifteen minutes on FLL, AAR, or AAS. Dump cursive and do handwriting through copywork. Or alternate days for it. Even if you keep handwriting, why is that a full half hour as well? Most of those things should be bing, bam, boom, done. I do think LA can take more than 30 minutes at this age, but it should not be that each of those components takes anywhere near a full half hour. Right now, we do some fun stuff for handwriting. We use a slate chalk board to do the 'wet dry try' stuff. ( ) Handwriting doesn't take a full half hour. BUT, I've found blocking out a full half hour helps us keep our paper schedule more realistic. Sometimes 5-10 minutes might be cleaning up supplies, nursing the baby, listening to my son talk about pokemon, changing a diaper, talking about things they want to write some day in cursive, etc. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney_Ostaff Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I'd bet you're spending a lot of time on transitions, especially with 3 kids, one of whom is an active baby. This is what I do, and your mileage may vary. Other than oral reading, my DD and I knock it out in about an hour. I have the books stacked on the dining room table in the order I want to use them--first one on top. Everything is prepped ahead of time (which can, to be fair, take me up to an hour). I sit with the baby (who is nursing or otherwise quiet) in my lap, sit my DD next to me, pick up the textbook (which is already Post-It noted to the correct page), open it to the right page, supervise the work in a super-focused fashion, and close the book. Then I put it on the done pile, check it off the list (yes, I have an actual checklist), and move on. We do: FLL MWF WWE M-F SP A M-F SOTW read aloud Monday/map work Wednesday/timeline Friday AO poem memorization M-F Logic T Singapore Math M-F ES Biology Read aloud MTR, Narration MTWR, Project MTRF We're also tagging in OPGTR & PP for a total of 5 min, just to finish it off On Tuesdays, we do an art/craft project that's not included in the "about an hour" routine, and Thursdays we do a music project that's not included. I hang out in the next room while she practices typing for 10 min MWF. If the baby is fussing, we hold off until she's either napping or nursing or hanging quietly in her bassinet for a few minutes. The key for me is to prep, and then move through with laser focus while the baby is quiet. ETA: Which isn't to say that we never do anything educational the rest of the day. Daddy reads to her for a solid 30+ min at bedtime, she begs for Jim Weiss in the car, we watch educational shows sometimes, she spends a good deal of time puttering in the yard in the mud and learning to identify birds with grandma, etc. She goes to art classes, and swimming and soccer in their seasons, and so on. We have a museum membership and I try to make it at least once a month, we go to plays, etc. But none of it is seatwork, and I don't really "track" that kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco_Clark Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting 8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) 10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2) 11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) 12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 2:30PM-Finished *NOTE 1: Our first problem starts at 8AM typically. I am trying to start earlier so we can finish earlier. BUT On some days my husband doesn't leave for work until 8:30 which gives us a late start. OR, a kid will dawdle with getting dressed, finishing breakfast, etc. So we realistically probably start our day at 8:30AM a lot of the time. **NOTE 2: I know FLL doesn't take a full 30 minutes, but sometimes we go a little longer in reading. (I let the kids finish the story they are reading or something.) OR, we lose time switching between subjects, so scheduling a full 30 minute block helps us not to get too far off track. ***NOTE 3: I've tried moving read alouds to before bed several times. The problem is, my DH usually does bed time with the older kids while I get the baby to sleep. And read alouds just don't get accomplished when he is doing bed time. (He has good intentions, but if I want them to happen I have realized I need to fit them into our day.) I agree with whoever said that if you realistically start your day at 8:30, then you need to be expecting to start your day at 8:30. No use shooting yourself in the foot before you begin. I also agree with the many voices saying you could drop grammar. I'd add maybe even drop writing. Those are important subjects but at their fullest potential AFTER kids are fluently reading. You can have them narrate informally from your history/science/sonlight reading to continue building that skill. That being said, if you arent comfortable dropping subjects why not rotate them? You could alternate cursive with copywork, and spelling with grammar. That cuts an hour right there. Id also re-look at nighttime reading. Why doesn't it get done? Is there something you can do to encourage it to? Could bible be moved to nighttime husband duty instead? Or could you do one of those as a family after dinner but before bedtime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Maybe I need a summer intensive on just phonics / learning to read. (and drop everything else.) THEN, I can add in the other language arts subjects. My question is.... Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read? How can you be sure they are comprehending things? Or not skipping passages, etc. ? Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc? Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc. Am I wrong? So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud? Yes to dropping everything until they're really reading and adding it back later. For example, I wouldn't do AAS until they're solidly reading at all. And FLL and WWE are really marginal until a child can sit down with a book on their own. As for comprehension, this is a huge part of the purpose of narration, which is covered in WWE. It's hard to envision the future sometimes when your kids are little. We do some reading aloud (mostly during poetry teas) but mostly my kids read silently - they're 9. I don't really need to hear them and it slows them down. We discuss books as they read, but it's informal. Or if they read for school, I have them narrate. It really will get easier in a few years when they're reading and writing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney_Ostaff Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I also agree with the many voices saying you could drop grammar. I'd add maybe even drop writing. Those are important subjects but at their fullest potential AFTER kids are fluently reading. You can have them narrate informally from your history/science/sonlight reading to continue building that skill. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 Id also re-look at nighttime reading. Why doesn't it get done? Is there something you can do to encourage it to? Could bible be moved to nighttime husband duty instead? Or could you do one of those as a family after dinner but before bedtime? Copied from above: As far as bedtime goes, read alouds just don't work then. My DH doesn't get home until close to 6:30PM-7:00PM. So that means we don't have a lot of time before bed to squeeze in everything that we want. By the time we eat as a family, spend time talking to one another, get the food put away, brush teeth, etc. ----read alouds are often skipped. We can make them happen every now and then, but not everyday. I know I COULD do away with eating together as a family, but that is something that we all treasure and would miss. It is a way we reconnect with one another and we have done it since the kids were babies. (They even say things like, "We can't eat without Daddy!") :) I just don't think that bed time read alouds are something I could make work consistently. I've tried asking DH to step up and do that, but it didn't happen consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 I'm not exactly a relaxed homeschooler; I demand quite a bit of my DD, but that schedule seems a bit much for a 6-7 year old. My 4th grade DS is coming home for school next year and I don't expect he'll be plugging away that long. For him, I expect 4 hours will be plenty. I know "hitting the books" isn't popular on this forum, but I am not an unschooler and it's a base for me. But even by those uptight standards, if your kids are actually on the books that long and not taking long breaks/out for some lessons or another, I'd try and cut back. I think at that age, I would definitely ditch the spelling, writing, geography, and grammar (until they were reading well, anyway), and unschool art/music/nature study. You can always add them back in if you really feel you need to. Perhaps you can give DH the Bible reads and that can be their nighttime story? Yes to dropping everything until they're really reading and adding it back later. For example, I wouldn't do AAS until they're solidly reading at all. And FLL and WWE are really marginal until a child can sit down with a book on their own. As for comprehension, this is a huge part of the purpose of narration, which is covered in WWE. It's hard to envision the future sometimes when your kids are little. We do some reading aloud (mostly during poetry teas) but mostly my kids read silently - they're 9. I don't really need to hear them and it slows them down. We discuss books as they read, but it's informal. Or if they read for school, I have them narrate. It really will get easier in a few years when they're reading and writing more. Thanks so much. I'm starting to feel like I have a direction to 'head'. :) One last question for everyone, how does one define "reading well" or "reading fluently" in these early grades? It seems like a sort of subjective measurement of skill. In other words, wow will I know it is time to add back in the things some of you ladies have recommended cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yes to dropping everything until they're really reading and adding it back later. For example, I wouldn't do AAS until they're solidly reading at all. And FLL and WWE are really marginal until a child can sit down with a book on their own. As for comprehension, this is a huge part of the purpose of narration, which is covered in WWE. It's hard to envision the future sometimes when your kids are little. We do some reading aloud (mostly during poetry teas) but mostly my kids read silently - they're 9. I don't really need to hear them and it slows them down. We discuss books as they read, but it's informal. Or if they read for school, I have them narrate. It really will get easier in a few years when they're reading and writing more. :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney_Ostaff Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 About 3rd/4th grade, students switch from learning-to-read to reading-to-learn. For me, that reading level was when my daughter started to voluntarily pick up books to read. Before that, it was like pulling teeth--and frankly, other than daily 10-minute phonics lessons after dinner, I didn't ask her to read anything. I wanted her to think of reading as enjoyable, rather than a battleground. It took us about 20 months of solid, daily, short phonics lessons (flashcards --> 100 EZ Lessons -> PP & OPGTR simultaneously) to get her to the point where she voluntarily, spontaneously picked up Yertle the Turtle and easily read it to her baby sister. (I almost cried in joy--but I didn't, because I didn't want to spook her!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAttachedMama Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 About 3rd/4th grade, students switch from learning-to-read to reading-to-learn. For me, that reading level was when my daughter started to voluntarily pick up books to read. Before that, it was like pulling teeth--and frankly, other than daily 10-minute phonics lessons after dinner, I didn't ask her to read anything. I wanted her to think of reading as enjoyable, rather than a battleground. It took us about 20 months of solid, daily, short phonics lessons (flashcards --> 100 EZ Lessons -> PP & OPGTR simultaneously) to get her to the point where she voluntarily, spontaneously picked up Yertle the Turtle and easily read it to her baby sister. (I almost cried in joy--but I didn't, because I didn't want to spook her!) So you are saying that a third grade reading level is when you would add back in grammar and copywork, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney_Ostaff Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yes, but I'm not an expert or anything. I'm betting Ellie and farrarwilliams would be the ones to listen to there. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I'm an engineer myself! Echoing everyone else. Waaaay too much LA for kids who are still "learning to read." As someone who has mostly late-to-read types, I can say -- LESS IS MORE. - The only kid who had grammar in 1st grade at my house was the only one who was reading fluently by that point. Everyone else waits until 3rd grade. FLL3 is made to be an intro program. Most 3rd grade grammar programs are MADE to be an intro program. Seriously. - AAS is overkill if your kid is still working on learning to read. Wait until they are reading well & add back in spelling. It'll go so much better. - 10 minutes of cursive per kid MAX. If you can watch them both at the same time, great. Shoot for starting at 8:30 and get 'er done. 8:30AM-Simon says, play a quick *move around* game 8:40AM-Cursive Handwriting 9:00AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:30AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby, runs around) 10:00AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby, runs around) **add in 10 minutes running around/transition/change baby time into the above reading times** 10:30AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:00AM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 12:00PM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM Enrichment 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list) - leads into Quiet Time!! Edited to add: I only teach my kids cursive. Once they can do the letter formation, we USE it during spelling time (and copywork) so we don't have a separate handwriting time. I don't do grammar until 3rd, but we do start spelling once they can read because we do "reading" as part of "spelling." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Here's what I would do (which may or may not work for you!) 8:00AM Breakfast and Bible with Dad 8:30 - Cursive handwriting (10 minutes is plenty, 5 minutes transition time if needed--but if you really need 30, you'd still be doing lunch at noon) 8:45 - Math 9:15-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:45 AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) 10:15 AM-Spelling (AAS 2) 10:45 AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) 11:15 AM -Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) 11:45 AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) (move to 8 with Dad) 12:30 PM -Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 1:00 done, play outside, rest time etc... Note: When I did 2nd grade, it took 2-3 hours, but I did not need as much transition time since I didn't have a baby. This is where part of your time is going, and that's normal. I also did read-alouds before bed, which I know won't work for you--and I didn't think of that as "school time." I think many people don't. So that might be another difference. Yes, you do still want your child to read aloud to you after they read fluently--very important to do this from time to time at least (we do it during Bible time, for example), for many reasons. (Check skills, fluency, comprehension, work on inflection, precursor to speech, discuss vocabulary etc...) LA subjects--aim for 60-90 minutes of LA instruction. Here's an article on planning LA, and how/when to add in subjects. It's MUCH easier to add them in when the student is really ready. Your original schedule has 2 hours, 30 minutes planned. WTM recommendations--keep in mind that Susan has said in talks and in her videos that sometimes the publisher had her put in more things than they did. Adjust things to fit your family and fit what's realistic in your situation. You are doing a great job with your kids and are such a loving mom! Your children are blessed :) Hang in there! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I also want to point out that you are doing TWO kids - which take longer than ONE kid. I can't finish three or four kids before Noon unless I pay absolutely no attention to one or two of them. Since I combine & want to give time to all my kids, we have a "full day" schedule for me and my kids don't have a straight-through schedule. My going-to-be-first-grader will have just over two hours a day of work, but only an hour and 15 minutes of that is *just for him*. He tags along in a couple of other subjects (History, poetry, enrichments) and can choose to bow out of those as he wishes My dd#3 (mid-3rd-grade) will have just over four hours of work - less than three hours of which is only hers. The rest are for combined subjects (again: history, poetry, enrichments). It ends up as over eight hours of work every day for me (longer on four days of the week because we have a short day for outside stuff). When you can finish in a shorter period of time, frequently you can combine (like you are doing), aren't counting the extras (read aloud, enrichments), or you only have one kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Thanks so much. I'm starting to feel like I have a direction to 'head'. :) One last question for everyone, how does one define "reading well" or "reading fluently" in these early grades? It seems like a sort of subjective measurement of skill. In other words, wow will I know it is time to add back in the things some of you ladies have recommended cutting? I agree with Courtney that it's about 3rd grade reading level. If you look at the RL's on early chapter books (think Magic Treehouse), you'll see that most of them fall in the late 2nd grade to early 4th grade reading level and it's that stage of reading that is the watershed moment for a lot of kids where they go from being able to slowly plod through a reader to being able to sit down with something and read for pleasure or to learn. Of course, different kids have different paces. I'm not sure where your kids are exactly with reading, but some kids progress from Bob books to Magic Treehouse in the blink of an eye and other kids very slowly drag through each level of early readers from Elephant and Piggie to Henry and Mudge, to those in between chapter books like Nate the Great and Mercy Watson to the early chapter books like Secrets of Droon and Magic Treehouse over the course of literally a couple of years. One of the lovely things about copywork is that it can be really short and simple. And it can be drawn from whatever you're reading. If you keep those Sonlight readers, a single sentence could be the copywork. It doesn't have to take more than a few minutes. Or you can ditch it until later. I don't think there's a right answer here beyond just focus on the reading mechanics and let everything else come a distant second. It doesn't mean you don't do them at all. You could do once a week copywork. Or watch Schoolhouse Rock videos for grammar. Or do oral narration as part of history and science time. Alte Veste had some good schedule suggestions on how to fit stuff in, and I know she's a big advocate of that writing workshop time. There's different ways to find that focus on grammar and classical education. It doesn't have to look like sitting down with a huge schedule and pile of curricula for kids who aren't reading yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I agree with the general consensus here - put a hold on grammar for a couple of years. Trust me, the only "grammar" they need at this point is learning to start sentences and names with capital letters and putting punctuation at the end of sentences. You can also talk about a few other basic punctuation rules if they come up (commas for items in a series, etc), but all of this can be done through copywork or AAS dictation. The other thing is that each LA subject is taking too long. My dd uses AAR and AAS (about half a level behind). Each takes 10-15 min./day. For AAR we do the lesson and activity on one day. We do the fluency sheets the next day. Now she is reading much better and can do them all in a ten minute sitting. But for a long time we would take 2-3 days for this. Then we take a day for the story practice sheet and a day to read the story. Once a week we review phonogram and word cards. We don't do phonogram cards with AAS since she's already done them with AAR, but we do review rules on Monday when we do the new lesson. On Tuesday, I dictate lesson words and some old words for her to write on the dry erase board. If she needs more practice we do this again the next day. I split up the phrase and sentence dictation over 2-3 days. She also does cursive HW which takes her another 10 min, maybe. So, if you spend 40 min on these things, then you can spend 20-30 min on math and then an hour for science/history/literature read-alouds. You can have her narrate or do copy work from these a couple of days a week. Do art or a science/history project occasionally and there you have about 2.5 hours of school! I hope you are able to find something that works for you. Don't be too hard on yourself. It's hard having young kids who can't work independently yet as well as babies/toddlers who need your attention, too. Read some to them. Have them read some to you. Do some math. Go outside. I promise they will be learning all they need to at this age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramorellis Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Maybe I need a summer intensive on just phonics / learning to read. (and drop everything else.) THEN, I can add in the other language arts subjects. My question is.... Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read? How can you be sure they are comprehending things? Or not skipping passages, etc. ? Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc? Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc. Am I wrong? So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud? I really think in your position I would drop LA for now. It just doesn't take us that long to do grammar...10 minutes tops once he was reading fluently without stumbles. It's really hard to grasp the parts of speech if your brain is still working so hard to just decode the words. I think grammar is tremendously important and we do it several times a week but the reading level has to be in place first. Once they get there, they will pick up so much of the basics simply from reading on their own. As for reading, he reads short things to me but no once they are reading fluently I don't think I need to hear him read daily. If we are reading Charlotte's Web for instance I have pre-read it and then I will ask him to read the next chapter independently and we might briefly discuss what's going on in the book. It becomes quite obvious if they are comprehending it or not. I would say with early readers then you can ask them to read a few sentences, then you read some etc. until they get up to speed. I am not an unschooler and we have a rigorous schedule in my home, but I think nothing is more important in this stage than building a firm foundation for reading. I would drop anything that conflicted with that or made it too stressful. They really are so young that there is nothing you are doing now that can't be picked up again in a few months or even next year and I think you would be more successful at it then. I think when SWB mentions grammar and dictation etc., that is really meant for children who are already fluent readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 When following WTM recs, you need to adjust for your child's abilities. My oldest and youngest who were/are reading independently before age 5 could/can easily do grammar and writing in first and second grade. My child that is a late bloomer in the reading department could handle FLL1 just fine in first grade, but I dropped it because there just really wasn't a point. Keep in mind that I've been through 4th grade now, and I've seen the repetition every single year of grammar. I also felt like first and second grade grammar were rather pointless. Third grade was where it got interesting. I also had started WWE1 with that child in first grade, but he couldn't read the copywork sentences, and I used a phonics program that included writing what he was learning to read, so I dropped WWE. He'll start dictation in his reading/spelling this year, but I'm not going much farther than that this year. Writing will catch up after he learns to read and spell. Reading is the most important thing right now. He also won't be doing Latin in 3rd grade like WTM recommends (my oldest started at that age). I don't think the timing will be appropriate for him due to the later reading. It's ok if he starts Latin in 5th grade. I would like him to have a 3rd grade level of English grammar understanding before starting Latin, and my oldest had that (doing grammar ahead of grade level) and youngest will probably be capable of that, but middle child has to be met where he is, and there is no point pushing other skills before reading is in place. I am tying spelling and some basic writing into reading instruction this year, but it's all one subject that will take about 30 minutes. He also might read to me later in the day for a few minutes, but not an appreciable length of time. On the read aloud thing... When my youngest was a baby/toddler, we didn't do as much reading aloud as I'd like. That was the phase of life I was in, and I had trouble swinging more than a tiny bit. As youngest got older and able to sit through a read aloud, or at least quietly self-entertain during one, we did a lot more reading. I read so much more now than I did when my oldest was first or second grade. And he turned out fine. :D The kids get plenty of read alouds NOW, in a different stage of life. So don't feel guilt over not getting to certain things in the younger years. Do what you reasonably can, and know that things will change as your family changes. There is NO WAY I could have done Sonlight when my oldest was that age. When he was in 3rd grade, we did two cores (P4/5 and D), and in 4th/1st/PreK, I did TOG, reading aloud all the history to my younger kids and also reading a fun novel at 2-3 points in the day. Our ideal usually doesn't fit reality, so we need to adjust our expectations and work toward what we think could be reality, even if it's not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Sorry, I don’t know how to multi-quote, so am cutting and pasting. Concerning copywork, I pull our copywork sentences from their readers. So they do know how to read and spell all of the words they copy. We use our copywork time to reenforce phonics concepts/spelling rules, basic sentence structure, and capitalization, etc. … Thanks for your reply. I have no idea how to cover grammar, cursive handwriting, spelling, copywork, and narration into one 30 minute lesson. Could you give me an idea of what that might look like in real life? that seems like a great idea on paper, but I'm not sure how that would work in implementation. You are teaching grammar, language mechanics, and spelling through copy work. 5-10 minutes on cursive writing plus 10-20 minutes on copywork is plenty for now. Alternating days of cursive and copy work is also fine. Once they can form all of the lower case letters, have them do their copywork in cursive. If you want to include narration, have them copy their narrations from one of your content subjects. Maybe I need a summer intensive on just phonics / learning to read. (and drop everything else.) THEN, I can add in the other language arts subjects. My question is.... Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read? How can you be sure they are comprehending things? Or not skipping passages, etc. ? Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc? Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc. Am I wrong? So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud? Setting aside other subjects for the summer to work on reading is a good idea. Does your public library have a summer reading program? That might be an added incentive to read more. I do require my children to read aloud to me long past fluency. They read aloud 10-15 minutes a few times a week from mutually agreed upon books. The books can do double duty – they might be reading a literature selection, or history, or science, or other subjects of interest. Thus you aren’t adding time to the day, you are just shifting the reading from you to them. Consider audio books for some of your literature. The children could listen during mealtimes, while doing art, in the car, at bedtime, or when you just need a break. You could also borrow Scholastic Storytime DVDs from your public library. Watch them with the captioning turned on. That would reinforce reading lessons without feeling like a lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I started FLL2 with my 2nd grader this year (who is reading fluently - for example, she read Little Women) and FLL3 with my 3rd grader this year. We had never "done" grammar before - and neither had any issue at all with it. It took less than 10 minutes with my 2nd grader, three times a week, and about that with my 3rd grader, once we got into the hang of it. My Ker generally was building with duplos as we did grammar and I expect she'll find it quite simple whenever she is ready for it. I think if your children need phonics instruction, they should wait on grammar. Grammar is gravy, phonics is meat. You'll have plenty of time for grammar when phonics is done. Also, doesn't AAS tell you to only spend 15 min at a time on it and then stop? So a 30 min window is way too long unless that is for both kids. Finally, if you're still doing phonics everyday, maybe wait and do spelling until you are done, or alternate days. If you can't read aloud during meals, listen to a book on MP3 or CD or whatever you have. Or, read before bedtime (even better: read before bedtime while children fold their own laundry). I put off my son's desire to learn cursive for a while. I told him there were more important things to do and that I didn't have time, and when he started (six weeks ago) he mastered it in two weeks. Yes, you read that right. He taught himself in two weeks. Now he writes everything in cursive - even math assignments, which drives me bonkers. There is something to be said for waiting until a child is ready, though of course kids get ready at different ages. Here's what I think is important: kids can and do learn a lot on their own when given time to pursue their interests. What are you losing by having a long day with "everything" covered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hi, you have got lots of excellent advice already. Can I just add, regarding following the suggestions in TWTM, the following points for you to consider: 1. SWB's suggestions work best for ONE child who is an early/strong reader and needs a language-heavy education. It has to be adjusted for multiple children, or slower readers, or science nerd kids, or whatever. 2. SWB herself states - in the book and elsewhere - that she only put in suggested schedules on the editor's insistence, that she does not wish to prescribe exactly how you should do things, and that it is advisable to tweak her program to suit your circumstances and your family. Always remember that you are NOT doing 'classical' or 'TWTM' education; you are doing '[insert names of your children] education', which is the best possible education any child can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 4) Not teaching grammar or writing in second grade - I am actually quite surprised that so many of you are telling me I shouldn't be teaching grammar in the early years. (or doing copywork, narration, etc.) Especially since this is what Susan Wise Bauer and the Well Trained Mind seem to explicitly recommend doing, and what I read so many of people stating that you need to do in other threads. I had to double check to make sure I was on the right forum for a second. ;) ;) TWTM is a great book, but I have homeschooled three kids, and I have discovered in the process what works/is necessary vs. what sounds really nice. ;) Personally, I don't think there is much benefit to writing or grammar instruction (or spelling) until a child is reading fluently. ETA: My middle child is very academically inclined. She could accomplish everything that TWTM sets out, but it would impact our lifestyle too much. I homeschool in equal measure for academic excellence and to allow my kids to be who they are and pursue their own interests. I have always, always, always thought that SWB's time recommendations are overkill. My youngest child is dyslexic and a struggling learner. I have stated here before that if we waited until we accomplished all the things that SWB stated were necessary to begin first grade, he would have been 11 before we started. However, things have clicked a lot in his 5th grade year, and he is making a lot of progress. This is the first year that grammar has ever made ANY sense to him despite repeated years of trying to knock it into his head. My point is that you have to teach your kids, not teach a book, a method, or a philosophy. In first and second grade, learning to read is the only thing that really counts. Even math is secondary. Focus on what really matters, and add in other things when they don't make you feel overwhelmed. You'll know when you can add in grammar and spelling and logic and Latin and all that jazz and still maintain a harmonious day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Ha-ha, good question; I don't really know the answer to it, either. For my kids, I knew they read fluently when they were eager to pick up books, wanted to read before falling asleep, and could produce an accurate oral narration without my guidance. For DS, that was about late 2nd grade, and for DD, early 2nd grade; but every kid will vary on that, and some by a lot. Thanks so much. I'm starting to feel like I have a direction to 'head'. :) One last question for everyone, how does one define "reading well" or "reading fluently" in these early grades? It seems like a sort of subjective measurement of skill. In other words, wow will I know it is time to add back in the things some of you ladies have recommended cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well my kids are just turned 8 and 6 and I teach them together for most everything. We usually school for 4 hours a day...2 hours would mean hardly doing anything. My kids are good readers so I don't do reading instruction...but we replace that with reading comprehension or required reading. they also use the RAZ-Kids program to increase their reading levels I agree with PP' s to drop spelling till they read well and decrease the amount of time you are spending on each part. Our schedule goes something like this 10am start ( we are all night people) LA- - ETC or AAS ( rotated daily) - 15 minutes - Copywork - 5-10 minutes - Essentials in Writing...this covers grammer and writing. Takes about 10-30 minutes depending on the worksheet activity Math - about 30 minutes Break and snack Moving Beyond the Page Lesson. - usually takes about 30 mins to an hour Lunch Rotatation of either history (SOTW) or Science ( RSO) 30 mins max Raz Kids - However long kids want to play on it - its fun Read alouds and somewhere in there when the kids are working independently I school my 4yo but he is fast and sweet. We usually finish around 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foronemoresoul Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 To the op: I think it's easy to forget how much time a baby takes/needs from mommy. My kids are 14, 12, 9, 7, and 1. Before the 1 year old came along, I could get through school much quicker with all my kiddoes. I think your schedule looks fine. When my two oldest were that age and I had a couple of toddlers running around, I remember scratching my head wondering why school took me all day too. I searched and searched for a way to make it easier. There are certainly some good ideas here, but the thing I wish I could go back and tell myself is that this homeschooling thing can just be hard work sometimes. There is no magic bullet. I eventually figured out the kids and I needed to enjoy the process even if it took all day (which it frequently does.) That isn't to say my kids were sitting in chairs working all day; it's just that with a baby running around transitions take a long time. Sometimes you lose a kid during a diaper change and since he's having so much fun with legos you let him go for an hour to work with the other child, but the baby needs to nurse and then your lose the second kid and then you need to use the bathroom and the baby spills cheerios and kid A wants to discuss his lego project and by the time you get back to WWE it's two hours later. I get it. Those days you won't finish your list until 4. This is what I needed to learn to accept in the beginning. You're doing a good job, mom. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 On my phone (no formatting) so I put my comments in paraenthesis. 8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting (this should only take 15 minutes max. If your program is longer I would find another. HWT?) 8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A) 9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby) 10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2) (I wouldn't do it at all - they can learn all the grammar of the first 3 levels of FLL in less than a year when they are about 10) 10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2) (I would either do a combined reading-spelling program or hold off on spelling until they are reading at grade level. As soon as my kids had the mechanics of reading we switched over to spelling with AAS and no reading program.) 11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day) (see below) 11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide) (here I would also only do 15 minutes, or do it as a component of history/science time slot ) 12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room 1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages) 1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)*** 2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) (if you are doing nature study that's sufficient science for this age, and you could do history 1 day, Geog 1 day, nature study 1 days, art 1 day, music 1 day in your 11:00 time slot.) 2:30PM-Finished If your goal is reading I would look at how you spend your time. Make reading your #1. Drop enrichments to do more read aloud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I personally think using AAR and AAS at the same time is too much. I started AAS when my dd was reading at a fourth-fifth grade level and was pretty much done with phonics instruction. It was a great transition for her. (This would save 30 min a day) I also think 20 min a day of either FLL or WWE is enough at that age. Double up the day they only have copywork/dictation in WWE with a FLL lesson and then do one or the other, but not both, the other days. (Saves 40 min/day) I would keep the handwriting to ten minutes max per day. (Saves 20 min a day) I would also just pick one of your extras (art, music, etc) to focus on at a time and do it 2x a week or so for an 8-or-so-week block. Maybe alternate this with Bible. (Saves 30 min a day) This would cut 2 hours off your schedule. I do think all of your individual subjects are important. Your biggest issue is that you are trying to do too much simultaneously. (This advice is coming from a fellow homeschooler that loves SWB and has used almost everything she's published, and was never done in 2 hours a day, even for kindergarten ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I agree with streamlining LA to an extreme until they are reading fluently. Learning to read takes a ton of mental energy. I found that I was spinning wheels until I dropped pretty much all seatwork besides reading lessons, math, and copywork. Everything else was done via read aloud, oral work (narrations!), and games. Seriously, get brutal on your schedule and cut everything that taxes their minds, leeching energy from learning to read. (Copywork helps! Don't eliminate copywork.) I love Dancing Bears for reading, partly b.c the lessons are so short, yet highly effective. My goal was to leave mental energy for FREE reading. We had to work hard to make it happen, but the lessons themselves become a hindrance if they eat up time/energy for the leisurely reading. And that leisurely reading is the best assessment of their reading level. ime. Grammar can be caught up easily at 10yo w/o a struggle. Spelling won't launch until they are reading anyway. Dictation isn't helpful until spelling is underway. Don't cut the things that give life to your days. Continue to enjoy art and science and music and poetry. Make those things an organic part of family life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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