Shhhhh...I hate Singapore bar models

[zarabellesmom]

And so does my oldest child. I get that you can solve more complicated word problems without using Algebra and I'm sure that there are millions of benefits. My oldest was so glad when we switched to BA and she didn't have to work with anymore bar models. Now, my youngest is starting first grade, after coming through a Montessori program and I hate, hate, hate, thinking about all the time we'll end up using on bar models that we'll drop when she's ready for BA. I also own all of Miquon, but haven't really figured out what to do with it yet.

 

Long story short.... Anybody else hate bar charts, or is it only my family? And what would you do if you were in my situation?

 

Thanks.

[madteaparty]

Oh we hate them and we used them very little. DS uses equations now in 5a and has since 4-sometime. There was a painful curve there on how to build an equation (especial when you build two and then "merge" them-- sorry, I did my math in a language other than English and do not speak the correct lingo). But now it's great to see him do it and "ignore the pictures" :)

[73349]

I think Miquon might make SM bar models less painful, since you are finding the length of the unknown bar/rod when you do those. But we aren't there yet.

[Roadrunner]

We love them, sorry. :) my kids can see the solutions to pretty complicated problems in their heads thanks to those models. Especially my older boy who has been through a lot more of bar diagrams often instantly sees the answer. I am a convert!

[sbgrace]

I/we disliked them initially. I bought Process Skills and Problem Solving workbooks. It stepped us through beautifully. As we hit 4th grade, and 3rd really as well, I saw the value. They help him think through so well. I guess I'm a fan now! But I wasn't at first.

[texasmama]

Bar models revolutionized my math life.  Love them.  :D

[Momof3littles]

Hated teaching myself how to do them, still have to really think about some of them.  DS1 also had many tears over bar models LOL.  However, I do see them as a very valuable piece for many kids, and I wish I had learned them.  I had algebra 1 in 8th grade, which was the earliest it was available to even top students.  I know I had difficulty really grasping why some of my equations were wrong at times, and a bar diagram would have made that much more obvious I think.

 

So I kind of hate the struggle, but I like the outcome, and think it would have been a valuable piece in my own education, had I been introduced.

[Steven]

I wish there a choice between "the best thing since sliced bread" and "they're OK". 

 

I like using them when I work with my daughter, and I try to get her to draw them. She dislikes drawing them and resists when I tell her to do so. On the other hand, she once used a bar diagram to solve a very difficult problem with no prompting from me. 

[redsquirrel]

I think they are a great tool and I see the value in teaching them and in expecting the student to understand them. My older boy didn't like them one bit. He preferred to use the numbers. He felt he could go faster without drawing the diagrams, and he really could. So, I didn't force the matter, but if he got stuck I always drew one to get us through the problem.

 

 

[TCB]

We love them, sorry. :) my kids can see the solutions to pretty complicated problems in their heads thanks to those models. Especially my older boy who has been through a lot more of bar diagrams often instantly sees the answer. I am a convert!

 

 

Same for us. DD hated them when she was first learning them but once she got the hang of them she could solve almost any word problem out there. Even now, at the end of Alg 1, she still will sometimes use that method instead. She can often intuitively see the solution and I'm sure it's because of the bar diagrams. 

[Crimson Wife]

To me, they are a tool. Sometimes they can be really helpful, and other times it's easier just to use algebra.

 

My oldest had done Hands-on Equations before I ever started Singapore with her. So I always allowed her the choice of using algebra if she preferred. But if she got stuck or the incorrect answer, I did require her to go back and draw the bar diagrams.

 

My DS hasn't done HOE yet, but after he did the chapter on variables in Beast Academy, I started allowing him the choice to use algebra rather than a bar diagram.

[Farrar]

I/we disliked them initially. I bought Process Skills and Problem Solving workbooks. It stepped us through beautifully. As we hit 4th grade, and 3rd really as well, I saw the value. They help him think through so well. I guess I'm a fan now! But I wasn't at first.

 

This is sort of us too, though I wouldn't say I'm exactly a fan.  I like Process Skills much better than other bar model resources I've used and they've helped me understand them better.  But a lot of the problems that can only be solved by bar models are sort of forced to me at this age.  And one of my boys cannot stand them with a passion.  He loves all the puzzles in Beast and bar models, to him, are a mysterious crazy thing.  He will use a variable to solve problems in an instant, but at this stage, it's much harder to do that.

 

Basically, I think they're sort of meh.

[madteaparty]

I also want to say they seem to me to outlive their usefulness around fraction division/multiplication time.

Anyway, responding again because we also love the Process skills books so much, and initially got them so as to learn bar diagrams. Alas, we fell back into Algebra.

[kbutton]

Hated teaching myself how to do them, still have to really think about some of them.  DS1 also had many tears over bar models LOL.  However, I do see them as a very valuable piece for many kids, and I wish I had learned them.  I had algebra 1 in 8th grade, which was the earliest it was available to even top students.  I know I had difficulty really grasping why some of my equations were wrong at times, and a bar diagram would have made that much more obvious I think.

 

So I kind of hate the struggle, but I like the outcome, and think it would have been a valuable piece in my own education, had I been introduced.

 

Oh yes. I remember coming up with overly complicated equations. Then I'd see a really elegant and straightforward one from the teacher and think, "why didn't I think of that?" Apparently because I didn't know what a bar model was when I was in algebra. :-) I think they would have saved my bacon.

[jmc1970]

I find it is helpful in some of the problems, especially the comparison problems where someone has more or less of something than someone else. I don't make her do it for all the problems though, as it could get confusing sometimes. 

[kiwik]

I would like a simple, cheap set of instructions (preferably a pdf) on how to do them. I have a book on my amazon wish list but it looks more than I really want and by the time I factor in exchange rates and postage I want to be sure.

[Targhee]

After I got the hang of the I realized just how awesome they are. It is a very effective tool, and really what's the point of learning math if you can't use it to solve problems? The helps you solve problems. I know they aren't necessary, or the only way, but I wish I had learned them a long time ago! We use BA and I add in learning bar models because I think they a that valuable.

[zarabellesmom]

Ok, so for those who do like them, have you discovered the iPad app? At first my daughter liked it, probably because she is a techie. It didn't take long for it to wear out her patience. It took longer to fiddle with the drawing tools then to just solve the problem. After that, we used cuisenaire rods to represent the bars and that was better for awhile. She was really glad when we started BA (for lots of reasons) and she didn't have to mess with them anymore.

[SevenDaisies]

I like them now, but as previous posters have said, I wasn't crazy about them at first. They have gotten easier the more we have done them and while they are not the only way, for a child who hasn't started algebra, many times they are the easiest way. I try to make sure I work them all the night before so that I don't get stuck when I am working with dd.

[chicagoshannon]

Are we supposed to be drawing these? I never paid much attention to them, lol.

[texasmama]

I think the bar models helped me so much because I am, apparently, very visual.  I understand how to use Algebra and could fall back on that during our SM days, but learning the bar models really filled in something that was missing in my own math education.  My older son often said, "We need to draw a bar model" during our SM 5 days. 

[Alice]

I think they are a useful tool. We use them at times. I make sure my kids know how to do them, but I don't ask that they use them to solve every problem. I have learned that when my son is stuck on a particularly tricky word problem and I draw the model he almost always says "oh, I see now" and can get the answer. So now I tell him I won't help unless he's tried to draw a model first. I see it as a tool that as he gets more math tools he'll need less and less. 

 

It's kind of like using manipulatives. I think it's really handy to use c-rods to learn subtraction and addition when you are in kindergarten. Just because you stop using them doesn't mean they weren't an effective tool. I think the bar models are a tool that is useful for younger kids before they learn algebra. Just because eventually algebra makes the bar models less useful doesn't mean they were a waste of time. 

 

I'm also a big believer that there are more than one way to solve almost any problem. If they use bar models, great. If they don't and use some other method that is correct and they can explain, great. 

[Walking-Iris]

I sort of hate them, although I can see their purpose. And yet they basically annoy me.

 

I don't like the reliance on them that some curricula seem to have.

 

We're trying to teach math, but sometimes with certain <ahem> programs it feels as though we're trying to teach *that* program.

 

I look at them as another useful tool to use in the pursuit of understanding.... not THE tool! My oldest has worked with them. He feels sort of "whatever" about them too.

 

If any of my children hated using some visual or even hands on tool for learning, I'd scrap it and use something else. No way would I insist a child learn bar models, or an abacus, or c-rods, or number bond charts, or anything else, if it resulted in a complete loathing of that thing.

 

There are many ways and means to get the same result, which is proficiency in math skills and understanding.

 

[MyLittleBears]

Ummm........they're awesome and I hate them! :)

[Guest]

I think the bar models helped me so much because I am, apparently, very visual. 

 

This.

 

I didn't answer your poll because my son is not crazy about them, (we're going through the Process Skills books) but I, otoh, think they are the best thing since sliced bread. ;) He prefers to just solve the word problems, and I keep telling them that the word problems are going to get harder and I really wish that someone had taught me this way when I was in school. I just remember how much I struggled with word problems, and I think the bar diagrams open *my* eyes when reading through these word problems with him.

[Tanikit]

We are only in 2B so have not used bar models to their full extent, but what I found worked best for my DD so far is to get her to draw out the problem - with all its characters (including the family dog she felt like adding sometimes) and then to circle for her on her illustration where the bars would be and then simplify it into a proper bar model. Gradually she moved to using the more simple version for her pictures (with some creative additions since that is fun) and I suspect as she gets older she will automatically move to the simplified bar models with just the number written into them. (She is not drawing 128 flowers when she does the big numbered problems and never did - but having some flowers in the box with its number did seem her to keep the question in mind and not just play with the numbers.)

 

She is my kinaesthetic child actually and I have tried to use cuisenaire rods to show her how the boxes work, but she prefers her own drawings now. I have found that visualising what the problem is all about and then making it more abstract with the boxes and finally totally abstract with the actual arithmetic has helped the most.

[redsquirrel]

For those who want to learn more some of this might be useful:

 

http://www.thedailyriff.com/2010/11/singapore-math-demystified-part-3-the-famous-bar-models.php

 

http://icsdk5math.wikispaces.com/Bar+Modeling

 

and I was looking through some of my resources and I noticed that one thing said that the point of the bar model is to help transition students to algebraic thinking. I am embarrassed to admit that I never stopped to wonder why sm uses them. They are just a thing I did. I am :blushing:

 

 

[KrissiK]

I don't mind them. In some ways they are good to demonstrate part-to-whole concepts and whole-to-part concepts. "Frank had $60 and spent 2/5 of it on candy. How much $ did he have left?" A bar model helped DS understand this.

[happypamama]

DS1 and I like them okay. They have their purpose for some things. But sometimes, I think they do complicate things unnecessarily. We just had one problem where the bar wasn't helping DS1 see it, but writing an equation made sense immediately. Granted, we are only finishing Level 3 and have only used Singapore for two years, so I could be missing something.

[EKS]

My greatest success with the bar models was with a tutoring student of mine.  He is an adult who had a less than stellar math education and it was interfering with his career goals (to do what he wanted to do he had to pass a test that included math with middle school level word problems).  After a few months of tutoring using the CWP books (grades 3 and 4), he nailed the test!

[sweetpea3829]

My mathy son hated them.  He's only completed through Singapore 2B, so he hasn't experienced them in full just yet, but he was exposed to them through the Process Skills in Problem Solving and he complained quite a bit about having to use them.  For him, he wanted to just write the equation and felt that the bar models were dumb and a waste of time, because he didn't really need them.  

 

I can't really pass judgement one way or the other until we experience the bar models completely, and I believe that's fully introduced in levels 3 and 4, right?