Oh.My.Word. This is what happens when you attemt to study art with a Geeky, STEM, can't stand humanities kid!

[FaithManor]

From the 13 year old,

 

"The deeper meaning of a painting of a bowl of fruit is that the artist was obviously very hungry."

 

And off he went to get a snack.

 

Gee, I can't wait to see what his grade is going to be in college when he as to take a Gen Ed fine arts course of some kind! :scared:

[Luckymama]

That is so my youngest!

 

Ds, btw, fulfilled his part of his "arts and humanities" requirement (9 credits) with a History of Rock class :D

[FaithManor]

That is so my youngest!

 

Ds, btw, fulfilled his part of his "arts and humanities" requirement (9 credits) with a History of Rock class :D

That is awesome!

 

When I was in school, the non-fine arts students were ALL funneled into a "Fine Arts Appreciation" class that A. none of the fine arts faculty wanted to teach so they spent every year arguing over whose turn it was to get stuck with that duty so that B. they taught the class like people who considered it an agony so that C. everyone in the class determined early on that this was going to be awful, resulting in D. it being an awful, boring, mind numbing class became a self-fulfilling prophesy. Ever see "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"? The scene with Ben Stein, "Anyone, anyone", or the English teacher that drew out every single word in a sentence to an agonizingly slow pace while viciously attacking the blackboard with chalk??? Remember that? Well, that was how the professors approached the class. Awful. I always felt so bad for those students.

 

I do not even want to think about this kid being relegated to such a class. I'm pretty certain he would organize a student protest!

 

What he needs is something like, "Physics as Art" or something...playdoh class...he always loved playdoh, LOL! If he has to take Art history, Art appreciation, or a music class (said with head hanging since I'm a classically trained pianist and have NO IDEA how I and my very musical husband produced such an offspring), he will never graduate from college, ever! :lol:

[Dmmetler]

Physics of music, maybe? Although at my college that was a science course for music majors.

 

My college had "beginning percussion for actors, dancers, and non-musicians"

[Teachin'Mine]

Faith, the outcome will likely depend on the scheduling of the art class.  I might suggest it be taken immediately after lunch.  If the study is on nudes, I don't have a scheduling suggestion.  lol  Sorry, but it came to mind.  :tongue_smilie:

[FaithManor]

Faith, the outcome will likely depend on the scheduling of the art class.  I might suggest it be taken immediately after lunch.  If the study is on nudes, I don't have a scheduling suggestion.  lol  Sorry, but it came to mind.  :tongue_smilie:

:smilielol5:  :smilielol5:  :smilielol5:

[Julie Smith]

From the 13 year old,

 

"The deeper meaning of a painting of a bowl of fruit is that the artist was obviously very hungry."

 

And off he went to get a snack.

 

Gee, I can't wait to see what his grade is going to be in college when he as to take a Gen Ed fine arts course of some kind! :scared:

 

Okay, so what is the deeper meaning of a bowl of fruit?

[maize]

Okay, so what is the deeper meaning of a bowl of fruit?

The deeper meaning is obviously that the artist needed money and still-lifes of fruit bowls are a popular form of art and easy to sell. He chose those particular fruits because they were what he had lying around, and he stuck the artichoke in the middle to make people think there must be some deep significance, thus earning him a higher price for the painting.

 

Maybe it's a good thing I never had to take an art appreciation class.

[In The Great White North]

I didn't have a Fine Arts requirement.  Is this really a widespread college requirement?

[Julie Smith]

The deeper meaning is obviously that the artist needed money and still-lifes of fruit bowls are a popular form of art and easy to sell. He chose those particular fruits because they were what he had lying around, and he stuck the artichoke in the middle to make people think there must be some deep significance, thus earning him a higher price for the painting.

 

Maybe it's a good thing I never had to take an art appreciation class.

 

I thought it was because many classes teach people to paint using a bowl of fruit since it easier to paint then something with lots of straight lines or concern about the horizon line. You don't have to worry about facial features. So I thought the reason was easy to paint. But also easy to sell. 

 

Yah, now we know the meaning of a bowl of fruit. 

 

:hurray:

[FaithManor]

I didn't have a Fine Arts requirement.  Is this really a widespread college requirement?

At LAC's it often a requirement. Many Christian LAC's also make it a gen ed for everyone except fine arts majors.

 

The only time, according to one of my old professors, that the class got good reviews was when I taught it as a TA. The prof showed up maybe TWICE the entire semester. I got paid virtually NOTHING for my work, but really threw myself into it so the students wouldn't be bored. He got all the money and did not one blessed thing. Sigh...the trials and tribulations of higher education! LOL :lol:

 

I'll have to research it and see if either of my older two will be required to have an art or music class. Not a problem for the eldest, but yikes, the middle boy is not geared this way either!

[G5052]

My state's diploma list requires one credit of "fine or industrial arts."  Not that we match public school, but that's the minimum for me.  

 

I have one like yours that would die if we had to do fine arts, so we chose welding.  The other one has so much that I have to pick what counts and what is an outside activity or interest.

 

Variety makes the world go 'round...

[Nan in Mass]

LOL - And why does this surprise you?  You don't do "appreciation" type courses until they are much older.  Possibly much much older.  Like older than me.  Humanities general education classes haven't been a problem for my STEMies - they take drawing.  Mine wanted to know how to draw.  They just didn't want to have to make up totally unprovable stuff about what someone was thinking hundreds of years ago.  I told them I had in no way prepared them to deal with an art appreciation class and they would probably flunk one if they took one in college.  I also told them I hadn't prepared them for an art history class so they better avoid those, as well.  And I told them to approach literature classes with extreme caution.  They could try anything else they wanted, provided it was the right level.  What a sensible child you have!  I recommend saving art appreciation for the occasional trip to the art museum (bribed by promises of the Egyptian section or the Roman coins or the Samurai swords) and instead, having him work through a couple of the Draw Squad books. : )

 

Nan

[kiana]

It's a pretty common college requirement, but at some colleges you CAN satisfy it with oddball things -- one of my friends did history of rock n roll for it. Alas, my school made me choose between art appreciation, music appreciation, theatre appreciation, or dance appreciation. Nothing else counted. Other than art/music history for majors I guess.

[FaithManor]

It's a pretty common college requirement, but at some colleges you CAN satisfy it with oddball things -- one of my friends did history of rock n roll for it. Alas, my school made me choose between art appreciation, music appreciation, theatre appreciation, or dance appreciation. Nothing else counted. Other than art/music history for majors I guess.

Same at my school. However, dh being the master weasel that he was, took piano lessons (from the HEAD of the piano faculty - a professor specifically reserved for PIANO PERFORMANCE MAJORS such as moi - and through a process of charming the dean and a lady in the registrar's department - managed to get his lessons to count in place of the mandatory class. The first non music/not art student in the history of that institution to graduate without being tortured in Introduction to Fine Arts 101...my future hubby...the comp sic, math major, weasel! LoL

[Kareni]

 

What he needs is something like, "Physics as Art" or something...playdoh class...he always loved playdoh, LOL!

 

 

Ds, btw, fulfilled his part of his "arts and humanities" requirement (9 credits) with a History of Rock class :D

 

There you go.  Have your son take a Geology class, FaithManor, and title it History of Rock on his transcript.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[FaithManor]

There you go.  Have your son take a Geology class, FaithManor, and title it History of Rock on his transcript.

 

Regards,

Kareni

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Tullia]

That sounds like my ds at 13; always hungry and apparently not particularly interested in "deeper meanings."  He used to choose Hank the Cowdog's exploits as subject matter for his imitation exercises in poetry, too.  :001_unsure:  But, at 13 we couldn't definitely put him in the STEM category although that's the direction he's taken.

 

As a college student, his English and fine arts instructors have given him lots of positive feedback on his analysis and discussion skills. Several times he's run into former instructors who mentioned that they're teaching _________ next semester and if his schedule permits....  :svengo:

 

He did admit when he was around 20 or so that he had difficulty speaking his thoughts during the early teen years.  Hormones? Growth Spurts? There is hope! 

[Sunshine State Sue]

Gee, I can't wait to see what his grade is going to be in college when he as to take a Gen Ed fine arts course of some kind! :scared:

 

Speaking from personal experience, that is what pass/fail is for...

[Nan in Mass]

Speaking from personal experience, that is what pass/fail is for...

 

LOL - brilliant.  They are exposed to the other things they are supposed to be exposed to, their world is enriched and expanded, but they don't have to compete for grades against the speed-reading, speed-writing humanities students.

 

Nan

[Elisabet1]

Oddly, my STEM guy, who has horrid handwriting, loves drawing. He is taking it next semester in college to fulfill his art requirement.

[Nan in Mass]

Oddly, my STEM guy, who has horrid handwriting, loves drawing. He is taking it next semester in college to fulfill his art requirement.

 

[mamajudy]

Both of my STEM guys are actually very talented artists, although the older one would never admit it. :glare: The younger one has had full scholarships to our museum of art drawing and painting classes for years and could easily get into a top art school. He just doesn't want to major in art.

 

As far as arts appreciation classes in college, my DH teaches music appreciation at the college level and loves it. Unlike many music professors, he realizes that the students he is teaching are not music majors, and he is not trying to teach them as though they are. He teaches a lot of history of art/architecture and music by way of telling stories and using power point, DVDs and live concerts, and he knows his subject inside out, backward and forward. One of his goals is to create consumers of the arts -- concert goers, patrons, etc. Let's face it; SOMEBODY has to make enough money to pay for it. ;) His students come out of that class knowing more history than ever, and MANY of them now attend arts events regularly, even enjoying opera.

[Alice]

That would be my 10 year old. He turns every single art lesson into a science project somehow. 

 

I was a Chemistry and Biology double major and my roommate was an Art History major (and English and Women's Studies). At times she would read to me from her art theory texts and I would threaten to hang the periodic table on the wall as decoration. :)

 

I actually really enjoy art although I have no talent or real knowledge. I took an Oil Painting class in college as an elective and it was perhaps the most relaxing class ever. It was the one place I felt like I didn't have to perform, that no matter what I could just "do my best" and there were no expectations. My easel was next to a girl who was incredibly talented (and weirdly my Organic Chem professor's daughter) and she would get really stressed about the tiny imperfections in her gorgeous paintings where I would just spend the two hours in class happily painting away. It was fantastic. 

 

Our grades were also not determined by talent but by effort.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think appreciation has to include winkling out crypto meaning to every work. But there can be a sort of literary analysis of art. What was the style in vogue does this piece advance within that context or drive against it? Is there symbolism in play ? (Not in every Apple and Orange, but for example in the items that identify saints.)

 

Was the art glorifying country or posing critical commentary?

[creekland]

My STEM guy loves Art and hopes to do his 5th year (if he gets it) studying Art History.

 

Poor guy was born into the wrong family to do right by him in this subject in the homeschooling years.  I did have him do Art History as a course, but it was one he did totally on his own (with a text), as both hubby and I are non-artists.

 

He loves music too, and I could share musicals and basics of major composers with him having grown up with two music major parents.  But now in college he's also gotten into Dance... again, in addition to being STEM.

 

"I," however, would identify with your guy.  I have limited art interest and am artistically challenged - even with drawing for Calc or Physics...

[Nan in Mass]

I don't think appreciation has to include winkling out crypto meaning to every work. But there can be a sort of literary analysis of art. What was the style in vogue does this piece advance within that context or drive against it? Is there symbolism in play ? (Not in every Apple and Orange, but for example in the items that identify saints.)

 

Was the art glorifying country or posing critical commentary?

 

That sounds doable, I guess.  And even rather nice to know at times.  Especially the saints part.  In general, though, I like to think about pieces of art NOT as part of a greater context, but just as themselves, unique things.  Even if they aren't unique lol.  I'm curious about lots of things, and especially how things are done and certain effects achieved and what makes a piece of art work, but I'm not particularly curious about the historical context or what the artist was thinking.  I took drawing and drooled over the other art classes but I wasn't the least bit tempted by the art history or art appreciation classes.  Good thing I never had to take any of them lol.  I think the idea behind making people take them is good.  You might discover a new piece of art or music that you loved or that inspired you somehow.  But I would have hated taking the class.

[raptor_dad]

SWB and many on the board eschew creative writing in the early grades because they think kids need a store of imagery, a grounding in writing, an experience with literature, etc... before creating their own works.

 

I think analyzing art is the same thing. To comment critically on a painting is an amazingly hard task. You need to understand the history of art until that point. It is easy to be dismissive but there is a reason that 3-D perspective took thousands of years to develop. Just like you probably couldn't invent algebra de novo, you couldn't invent 3-d perspective. Likewise you need to understand fashions and styles at the time. Impressionism vs Realism....Cubism and Industrialism.... Socialist Realism and Politics, Modern Art in general... these deeply interwoven with social trends. Yeah... A high schooler probably isn't going to have anything profound to say about those pieces.

 

This isn't a cop out...I think it is entirely reasonable to ask kids what they like about a piece of their own choosing. This is a much more affective task and involves deep introspecting. Do you like a cave painting because of the sweep of the lines and the deeply evocative nature of the work? Do you like the fuzzy nature of impressionism which allows you to fill in the details in your own mind? Do you like the heroic nature of socialist realism? Do you like Calder mobiles and Kandinsky or Pollock for reasons you can't quite explain? All of these are legitimate answers and probably more worthwhile than some canned art history/appreciation text's answer. My goal would be to encourage introspection without alienating my child from "high art". Some famous works are only approachable if you have the full weight of the discipline behind you.

 

 

[Nan in Mass]

SWB and many on the board eschew creative writing in the early grades because they think kids need a store of imagery, a grounding in writing, an experience with literature, etc... before creating their own works.

 

I think analyzing art is the same thing. To comment critically on a painting is an amazingly hard task. You need to understand the history of art until that point. It is easy to be dismissive but there is a reason that 3-D perspective took thousands of years to develop. Just like you probably couldn't invent algebra de novo, you couldn't invent 3-d perspective. Likewise you need to understand fashions and styles at the time. Impressionism vs Realism....Cubism and Industrialism.... Socialist Realism and Politics, Modern Art in general... these deeply interwoven with social trends. Yeah... A high schooler probably isn't going to have anything profound to say about those pieces.

 

This isn't a cop out...I think it is entirely reasonable to ask kids what they like about a piece of their own choosing. This is a much more affective task and involves deep introspecting. Do you like a cave painting because of the sweep of the lines and the deeply evocative nature of the work? Do you like the fuzzy nature of impressionism which allows you to fill in the details in your own mind? Do you like the heroic nature of socialist realism? Do you like Calder mobiles and Kandinsky or Pollock for reasons you can't quite explain? All of these are legitimate answers and probably more worthwhile than some canned art history/appreciation text's answer. My goal would be to encourage introspection without alienating my child from "high art". Some famous works are only approachable if you have the full weight of the discipline behind you.

 

Do they eschew creative writing because they think there students can't create their own works?  Or do they eschew creative writing because they think that creative works, being creative and highly personal, especially at that age, are something that should be left up to the student?  I was in the don't-require-creative-writing-early camp, but I didn't do it because I thought my children were unable to write creatively.  They could.  Quite effectively, actually.  I knew they could.  They knew they could.  They just didn't want to do it for school and most of the time, I didn't think they should have to.  Children produce some intriguing art work, as well.  By the time mine were in the 9 - 13 range, they produced art that contained social commentary.  Not great art, of course, but some are highly pleasing.  I would hesitate to require them to do so at my command, though.  Switching back to writing - have you seen Writing Strands?  We made it through most of the series and it set my children up nicely for TWEM, but quite a lot of it requires creative writing.  My children passively resisted.  I persuaded.  We negotiated.  Ug.  I am glad we did it and so are they, now, but it was not fun at the time.  So... I would like to know if it is necessary for high schoolers do unprofound, bad, or even wrong criticism in order to train them to be able to do it better later?  If you've never done it badly as a high schooler, are you able to do it later when you have been steeped in all the background knowledge?  Or is this one of those things where you have to do everything badly and incompletely at once in order to learn the whole thing?  I probably didn't explain that very well...

 

I certainly understand and agree with your second two paragraphs.  That is exactly what my high schoolers told me when we ran across an assignment that asked them to do this.

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

So my very literal young teen (we thought future engineer) has evolved into an Archaeology major, Classics minor. He is one of the curators of a show on the history of the print that is opening on his college campus next week.

 

Here is a post that I wrote on these boards in 2009:

 

 

My son is literal. Our adventures in poetry have brought laughter with tears to some of the participants on this board. (Ahoy there, Michelle in MO!) Well, let me tell you what happened today...

My 11th grade son is concurrently enrolled at the local CC where he is taking (among other courses) Expository Writing. Heretofore his assignments were an essay relating a personal experience, a narrative essay, an argument based piece, cause and effect. Now the class is turning to literature for comparison and contrast. As a class exercise today, groups of three had to explain a poem. As my son described it, he could not believe how fortuitious it was that his group received a poem he could understand! Imagine that! It was Emily Dickinson's "There is No Frigate Like a Book". After he said it was the only poem he could ever have explained, he then added, "Oh yes, there was that William Carlos William's poem you like, the one about the plums." "Oh, I love that poem," I said. He responded, "I could have explained that one. Or the other William Carlos William's poem, you know, the one about the red wheelbarrow."

I was dumbfounded remembering the glazed eyes and the frustrations I have felt over the years in trying to explain metaphor and symbolism to my son. And look what happened: he processed something along the way! (Note: I'm not pushing my luck and bringing out John Donne tonight.)

Be of good cheer, friends. There may be more happening in those brains than you think.

 

[FaithManor]

Hey, guys...it's okay. He didn't have to do "analysis" per se. He had some reading to do about this style of art and it's purpose. All he needed to do was indicate that he understood what he read. This is the kid who will always give me a hedgy remark if it's about culture, and in particular, art and music. He needs to get over it. He doesn't have to like art, nor does he have to like discussing culture. However, it is going to be required of him to understand some basics in college and especially in history courses or if he has to have a gen ed fine artsy type class.

 

I wasn't giving him some college level art analysis assignment. But, it did kind of strike me funny...he's ALWAYS hungry, LOL!

 

Oh, and SeekingHIm, I can't draw a thing...not even a reasonable stick kind of figure either. On the other hand, eldest DS draws these complex mechanical sketches as well as elaborate scenes with tons of detail in the buildings and landscape, highly detailed mechanized figures in the foreground. I am a little jealous of his ability. We should have known he'd be this way when he was 24 months old and carried a notebook and pencil around with him so he could sit at any time, draw a box on the page, pencil in lines for "shelves", and made tiny nearly perfect circles all along the "shelves", and showing off his "golf ball" case. (He idolized my brother's golf ball collection. And for added cuteness is was said "foff ball" because he couldn't say the "g" sound very well yet.)

[SoCal Sandra]

"The deeper meaning of a painting of a bowl of fruit is that the artist was obviously very hungry."

 

Such a discerning young man. He recognized the work of a Starving Artist.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is there a reason you didn't think he would understand what he read?  Neither of my kids like "obvious questions" like that and will give me flip answers as a result.  

[shawthorne44]

His analysis is funny because it is so Boy.  See Food.  Remember you are always hungry.  Comment on hunger.  Eat Food.  

 

My analysis would have been that he didn't have to pay the fruit to model for him, and it was icky outside.  

 

Us STEMs can appreciate art.  We just appreciate it in different ways.  I love Opera for example.  Musical nuances mystify me, but I love the pretty voices.  

[Nan in Mass]

Hey, guys...it's okay. He didn't have to do "analysis" per se. He had some reading to do about this style of art and it's purpose. All he needed to do was indicate that he understood what he read. This is the kid who will always give me a hedgy remark if it's about culture, and in particular, art and music. He needs to get over it. He doesn't have to like art, nor does he have to like discussing culture. However, it is going to be required of him to understand some basics in college and especially in history courses or if he has to have a gen ed fine artsy type class.

 

I wasn't giving him some college level art analysis assignment. But, it did kind of strike me funny...he's ALWAYS hungry, LOL!

 

Oh, and SeekingHIm, I can't draw a thing...not even a reasonable stick kind of figure either. On the other hand, eldest DS draws these complex mechanical sketches as well as elaborate scenes with tons of detail in the buildings and landscape, highly detailed mechanized figures in the foreground. I am a little jealous of his ability. We should have known he'd be this way when he was 24 months old and carried a notebook and pencil around with him so he could sit at any time, draw a box on the page, pencil in lines for "shelves", and made tiny nearly perfect circles all along the "shelves", and showing off his "golf ball" case. (He idolized my brother's golf ball collection. And for added cuteness is was said "foff ball" because he couldn't say the "g" sound very well yet.)

 

Just in case...  I wasn't thinking of you or your assignment when I asked my latest question about it being necessary to do it badly.  I was thinking about youngest's history book, which required a certain amount of this stuff and was obviously trying to teach him to discuss art, about the process of doing something badly or imitatively until one can do it well, whether this always leads to being able to do it well, and other things like that.  I was always rather doubtful about the "just exposure" homeschooling approach, but as I watch what is happening to youngest as he takes over his own education, I am starting to think it might be more valuable than I had originally thought.  Like so many other things GRIN.

 

Nan

[Reefgazer]

From the 13 year old,

 

"The deeper meaning of a painting of a bowl of fruit is that the artist was obviously very hungry."

 

And off he went to get a snack.

 

Gee, I can't wait to see what his grade is going to be in college when he as to take a Gen Ed fine arts course of some kind! :scared:

This describes my son's response to art.  OK, and mine too, to be honest.  My son and I are so *not* art/music people, even though we try so darned hard to be that art/music person.