Malaysia Airlines flight missing

[quark]

I would like to respect SWB's request and am addressing Heather directly but politely (I hope it is read that way. It is not my intention to be disrespectful).

 

Heather, if you read my answer carefully you will see that I am to some extent agreeing with you about how the authorities are handling the issue and mainly disagreeing with your blanket judgement of Malaysians as a whole. I am not actively disagreeing with your judgement of the authorities. My first cousin holds a leadership position in Malaysia's anti-corruption task force. I am very aware of corruption in the country. But if someone is covering up something important to save face or someone high up is taking bribes in this issue, I find it hard to believe that the international SAR, the FBI and other foreign authorities involved so intimately with the whole effort are not picking up on it. Why is everyone stumped? We are not talking about only the Malaysian authorities being stumped. Everyone is stumped.

 

However, I am inclined towards giving the authorities, as clueless as they may be, the benefit of the doubt, at least for now, because the current guys in charge have no experience dealing with something of this magnitude. The reality of a missing jet is hard to train for too. I am completely open to the fact that it could be a cover up (but am unable to see how it could involve Malaysians as a whole being corrupted/ covering up/ trying to save face?) but clues don't seem to be pointing that way from all the facts revealed in the media. Malaysia is a hotbed of crime (anyone can easily google the facts), it has been a transit point for AQ in the past, and the country has had its share of minor and major natural disasters and racial tension, but the present administration has no clue how to handle something like the disappearance of a jet plane filled with civilians. I strongly believe they are more clueless than conniving or criminally motivated about this particular incident. If they really wanted to save face, they wouldn't have welcomed international help and the resulting increase in international scrutiny. Malaysia is not totally new to air disasters but MH crashes have been rare. There was an incident in 1977 when MH653 crashed, killing all onboard. It was believed to have been hijacked but the pilot did manage to notify control that there was an emergency onboard. My late uncle was involved in the investigation of that incident and I have memories of how distressed everyone was when that happened.

 

If this is found to be due to pilot error or some Malaysian military or government mix-up, I honestly don't see how they are going to be able to cover it up in full view of so many interested eyes.

 

I would really like to politely bow out now in respect to SWB and also in respect to the passengers and their families. I have involved myself more than I needed to in this conversation, and sincerely regret the impulse that prompted this involvement.

 

ETA: Please don't quote anything I've written in this post. Thank you.

[MariannNOVA]

They are reporting that the USA believes the plane flew for about four (4) hours after it was at it's last confirmed location, based on data sent by the engines on the aircraft.

On this URL: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/13/chinese-government-website-says-it-has-images-suspected-plane-debris/

Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal reported early Thursday that U.S. aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.

U.S. counterterrorism officials are exploring the possibility that a pilot or someone else on board the plane may have diverted it toward an undisclosed location after turning off the plane's transponders to avoid radar detection, a person tracking the investigation told The Journal.

ETA: I was not able to get the link to the Wall Street Journal article to work. This is the URL:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

The actual duration of that flight was approximately five (5) hours, based on automatic reports sent by the engines of the aircraft.

I was on my way to follow your link, and I saw this:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

😔

[Pawz4me]

IIRC, when investigating airplane incidents here in the States, the NTSB tends to be very good about holding press conferences and pretty thoroughly disclosing as much information as they know.  I don't know how press conferences or releasing information would be handled in an investigation like this, but . . . I think I'll hold off on believing the WSJ article until the NTSB says something directly.

[MariannNOVA]

IIRC, when investigating airplane incidents here in the States, the NTSB tends to be very good about holding press conferences and pretty thoroughly disclosing as much information as they know. I don't know how press conferences or releasing information would be handled in an investigation like this, but . . . I think I'll hold off on believing the WSJ article until the NTSB says something directly.

The former FAA chief of staff and a former NTSB investigator were on CNN late yesterday afternoon, and both of them did comment on how correspondents in the U.S. would be shouting questions and pressing for answers and they would expect to get them.....were this an investigation being conducted in the U.S. or an investigation involving a U.S. carrier.

 

That, however, is not the case and amazingly, the u.s. correspondents appear too be holding back.

[Guest submarines]

I actually think it's kinda tacky to be 'theorising'.

 

It's one thing to follow and share news as it comes to hand. Entertaining ourselves with 'theories' is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

If people feel moved by the fate of the unfortunate passengers and airline staff, maybe praying, lighting a candle, meditating on loving-kindness for the family members and friends might be the way to go.

 

This theory stuff feels disrespectful to me.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.

"Theorising" is how our little human minds deal with tragedy and loss. It is our human nature to fill in details and to try to make sense of what happened. This is not incompatible with deep care and compassion. Everyone deals differently. Some imagine the worst in order to find relief that the worst didn't happen. Some grasp for straws. I can't see what aspect of it is disrespectful in this context.

[Lanny]

The N.T.S.B. is not in charge, because this accident did not occur on U.S. territory or on an aircraft registered in the USA. Hopefully, the government of Malaysia will request any and all help the N.T.S.B. can provide to them. Since the aircraft was manufactured in the USA, the aircraft manufacturer (Boeing) and the N.T.S.B.  and possibly the F.A.A. can participate in this investigation.  I have deep respect for the work the N.T.S.B. does to investigate airline accidents and incidents.

 

At this time, there are many possible causes for what happened to this flight.

 

When I was very young, I worked for 2 airlines. While working for the 2nd airline, after a non survivable accident, I volunteered and worked on the passenger identification team. Since then, I have been very interested in airline safety  I am acutely aware of what the families of the people who were aboard this aircraft and the employees of the airline who are working on the aftermath of this flight are experiencing.  All of them should be included in daily prayers.

[Lanny]

I was on my way to follow your link, and I saw this:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

😔

 

Yes. I have read that on other web sites.  So how can the Malaysian authorities explain the fact that the Rolls Royce engines on that aircraft sent data about their performance, every 30 minutes, to the engine manufacturer? If the aircraft had been in an accident, early in the flight, it is extremely difficult to imagine how the engines would continue to send information about their health, to Rolls Royce, for a total duration of approximately five (5) hours. The search area is now huge, far bigger than it was originally. Why the Transponder was turned off is incredibly troubling.

 

I

[MariannNOVA]

The N.T.S.B. is not in charge, because this accident did not occur on U.S. territory or on an aircraft registered in the USA. Hopefully, the government of Malaysia will request any and all help the N.T.S.B. can provide to them. Since the aircraft was manufactured in the USA, the aircraft manufacturer (Boeing) and the N.T.S.B. and possibly the F.A.A. can participate in this investigation. I have deep respect for the work the N.T.S.B. does to investigate airline accidents and incidents.

 

At this time, there are many possible causes for what happened to this flight.

 

When I was very young, I worked for 2 airlines. While working for the 2nd airline, after a non survivable accident, I volunteered and worked on the passenger identification team. Since then, I have been very interested in airline safety I am acutely aware of what the families of the people who were aboard this aircraft and the employees of the airline who are working on the aftermath of this flight are experiencing. All of them should be included in daily prayers.

Rolls Royce is there as well as the manufacturer of the engines.

 

And, yes, I agree with you. Prayer, if one is so inclined, is needed.

[Pawz4me]

The former FAA chief of staff and a former NTSB investigator were on CNN late yesterday afternoon, and both of them did comment on how correspondents in the U.S. would be shouting questions and pressing for answers and they would expect to get them.....were this an investigation being conducted in the U.S. or an investigation involving a U.S. carrier.

 

That, however, is not the case and amazingly, the u.s. correspondents appear too be holding back.

 

I don't find that to be particularly odd.  It's not our turf.  There weren't a lot of Americans on the plane.  It wasn't an American airline.  The accident occurred in an area where there is considerable political tension.  And, as Lanny pointed out, the NTSB and other American agencies aren't in charge, just helping out.   But hopefully when the time is right we will get some information directly from the NTSB.

 

 

 

"Theorising" is how our little human minds deal with tragedy and loss. It is our human nature to fill in details and to try to make sense of what happened. This is not incompatible with deep care and compassion. Everyone deals differently. Some imagine the worst in order to find relief that the worst didn't happen. Some grasp for straws. I can't see what aspect of it is disrespectful in this context.

 

I "liked" your post, but that didn't seem like enough.  So I have to say -- :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[MariannNOVA]

Yes. I have read that on other web sites. So how can the Malaysian authorities explain the fact that the Rolls Royce engines on that aircraft sent data about their performance, every 30 minutes, to the engine manufacturer? If the aircraft had been in an accident, early in the flight, it is extremely difficult to imagine how the engines would continue to send information about their health, to Rolls Royce, for a total duration of approximately five (5) hours. The search area is now huge, far bigger than it was originally. Why the Transponder was turned off is incredibly troubling.

 

I

Precisely........'how can the Malaysia explain..........to the engine manufacturer?'

 

Someone asked this question of Mary Schiavo a mere 90 minutes ago, and she responded that if the data is there, it must be looked at......which of course seems eminently reasonable to me. Apparently, the fly in the ointment (and if you know otherwise, kindly correct me) is that since this is not an investigation being conducted by the U.S., (it is being conducted by Malaysia), the U.S., or anyone else for that matter, must wait until their assistance is requested.

[MBM]

If the plane continued to fly, wouldn't radar somewhere have picked it up at some point? Would it be possible to fly low for so long past several countries? I would imagine at some point the plane would have had to gain some altitude in order to fly over terrain. My husband, who worked as an engineer on radar projects back around 1980 and whose job was to make images on the screen more detailed, said that the size of the plane could be determined by radar, yet there is so little known about this plane's demise. Very strange.

 

I hope it's something unusual and that the passengers survived,

[wapiti]

So how can the Malaysian authorities explain the fact that the Rolls Royce engines on that aircraft sent data about their performance, every 30 minutes, to the engine manufacturer?

 

FWIW, the Malaysian authorities basically deny that happened, in a statement which to me doesn't make any sense:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/03/13/there-is-nothing-malaysian-authorities-do-not-find-missing-plane-where-chinese-satellite-images-showed-possible-debris/

 

Meanwhile, Malaysia’s acting Transport Minister, Hishammuddin Tun Hussein, flatly rejected a report from The Wall Street Journal claiming U.S. investigators suspect the plane flew for as long as four hours — possibly hundreds of miles — after it lost contact with ground control.

The Journal, citing “two people familiar with the details,†said data automatically downloaded from the plane’s Rolls Royce Trent 800 engines as part of a maintenance program continued to reach the ground for four hours after the flight went off radar.

“Those reports are inaccurate,†said Hussein. He said the last transmission of data from Flight 370 came prior to the loss of the plane’s signal on radar and communications with the crew, and indicated “everything was normal.â€

“As far as Rolls Royce and Boeing are concerned, those reports are inaccurate,†said Hussein.

 

 

It's unclear on what basis this person believed that the "reports were inaccurate."

 

I'm just waking up to this bit of news and need to go read the WSJ article....

[Lanny]

Precisely........'how can the Malaysia explain..........to the engine manufacturer?'

 

Someone asked this question of Mary Schiavo a mere 90 minutes ago, and she responded that if the data is there, it must be looked at......which of course seems eminently reasonable to me. Apparently, the fly in the ointment (and if you know otherwise, kindly correct me) is that since this is not an investigation being conducted by the U.S., (it is being conducted by Malaysia), the U.S., or anyone else for that matter, must wait until their assistance is requested.

 

I worked under contract to Boeing, twice. I told my wife, awhile ago, that  I cannot imagine that Rolls Royce Engineers would have released their findings, if they had not checked and double checked their findings. Rolls Royce would not want to make a mistake about something like this.

 

Hopefully, the authorities in Malaysia will keep their minds open, to *all* of the possibilities and there are *many* possibilities about what happened to this aircraft.

[Lanny]

If the plane continued to fly, wouldn't radar somewhere have picked it up at some point? Would it be possible to fly low for so long past several countries? I would imagine at some point the plane would have had to gain some altitude in order to fly over terrain. My husband, who worked as an engineer on radar projects back around 1980 and whose job was to make images on the screen more detailed, said that the size of the plane could be determined by radar, yet there is so little known about this plane's demise. Very strange.

 

I hope it's something unusual and that the passengers survived,

With the Transponder turned off, it would be much more difficult to detect.  Like your DH, I also have experience with Radar (EW).   I suspect that NORAD or some other agency, with time, may have some tracking of this flight, when they are able to search their databases. I doubt that they were flying at low altitude, that you mentioned, but that is  a possibility. 

 

The demise of the aircraft in question is now a possibility. Maybe a probability. Hopefully, it is intact, sitting on a runway, somewhere. Hopefully, the passengers and the crew are in good condition.

[MariannNOVA]

I worked under contract to Boeing, twice. I told my wife, awhile ago, that I cannot imagine that Rolls Royce Engineers would have released their findings, if they had not checked and double checked their findings. Rolls Royce would not want to make a mistake about something like this.

 

Hopefully, the authorities in Malaysia will keep their minds open, to *all* of the possibilities and there are *many* possibilities about what happened to this aircraft.

In total agreement.

[Joker]

This says the US believes it went down in the Indian Ocean and are moving one of their ships to the area.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-malaysia-airline-crashed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802

[MBM]

With the Transponder turned off, it would be much more difficult to detect.  Like your DH, I also have experience with Radar (EW).   I suspect that NORAD or some other agency, with time, may have some tracking of this flight, when they are able to search their databases. I doubt that they were flying at low altitude, that you mentioned, but that is  a possibility. 

 

The demise of the aircraft in question is now a possibility. Maybe a probability. Hopefully, it is intact, sitting on a runway, somewhere. Hopefully, the passengers and the crew are in good condition.

 

Lanny, that is interesting. I'm reading the Pprune dot org (rumors) forum, btw, and someone is discussing EW.

 

I read that a number of the passengers, 12-20?, on the plane were/are experts in EW, possibly having worked on projects like the invisibility cloak. I don't know if that's true but if it is, maybe the plane did land somewhere. I hope so and hope the passengers are safe.

[zoobie]

Why would a commercial airliner allow its transponder to be turned off at all? Seems like there should be tracking devices that can't be tampered with by humans.

[Matryoshka]

Why would a commercial airliner allow its transponder to be turned off at all? Seems like there should be tracking devices that can't be tampered with by humans.

 

I was just thinking the same thing.  Why the heck is there an 'off' switch on the transponder at all?  Under what conditions would a commercial airline legitimately need to turn that off?

[flyingiguana]

If the plane crashed on land somewhere, would seismographs pick it up and be able to locate it?

 

If that's true, either that info hasn't been looked for (which I would find surprising), or it didn't come down intact on land (I'm assuming it wouldn't make quite as much impact on water? I might be wrong).

 

Or it landed fairly smoothly somewhere.

 

The best guess, unfortunately, is still probably that it crashed into the ocean.  Which will take a lot of time to locate.  Which means the theories are going to continue to fly for some time.

[Lanny]

Lanny, that is interesting. I'm reading the Pprune dot org (rumors) forum, btw, and someone is discussing EW.

 

I read that a number of the passengers, 12-20?, on the plane were/are experts in EW, possibly having worked on projects like the invisibility cloak. I don't know if that's true but if it is, maybe the plane did land somewhere. I hope so and hope the passengers are safe.

I had read, days ago, that 10 or 20 of the PAX worked for one company. I believe a Texas based company, but I'm not sure of the location.

 

OMG, if they are involved in EW, that is *VERY* bad, if they have been captured.

 

I hope and pray the aircraft is intact and that it is inside a hangar or parked on a runway, somewhere, and that the PAX and crew are OK.

[Ameena]

I had read, days ago, that 10 or 20 of the PAX worked for one company. I believe a Texas based company, but I'm not sure of the location.

 

OMG, if they are involved in EW, that is *VERY* bad, if they have been captured.

 

I hope and pray the aircraft is intact and that it is inside a hangar or parked on a runway, somewhere, and that the PAX and crew are OK.

 

I believe reports said 20 of the PAX worked for a semi-conductor company out of Austin TX.

[Pawz4me]

This says the US believes it went down in the Indian Ocean and are moving one of their ships to the area.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-malaysia-airline-crashed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802

 

I find that article intriguing.  A senior Pentagon official saying the U.S. has an "indication" the plane went down in the Indian Ocean --  I suppose that "indication" comes from some of our satellites.   Will be interesting to see if anything comes from this.

[wapiti]

I was just thinking the same thing.  Why the heck is there an 'off' switch on the transponder at all?  Under what conditions would a commercial airline legitimately need to turn that off?

 

My understanding is that they clutter up the radar at airports or something.  Maybe they should make them turn on automatically on takeoff and turn off on landing?

 

 

At this point, I find myself wondering whether some governmental authorities in some country(ies) somewhere know what happened but that there might be a need for silence or misinformation, either truly legitimate (such as for security for a rescue operation), or for political relations reasons or even for nefarious reasons.  The poor families.

[wapiti]

I find that article intriguing.  A senior Pentagon official saying the U.S. has an "indication" the plane went down in the Indian Ocean --  I suppose that "indication" comes from some of our satellites.   Will be interesting to see if anything comes from this.

 

What is interesting is that this "indication" has been disclosed only after the existence of the Rolls Royce engine info.  If the plane went down in the Indian Ocean, that would explain the existence of the Rolls Royce info, but then one wonders why the plane would fly for so long and then crash.

 

On the radar issue, I read some comments about the ease of flying under the radar over certain Southeast Asian countries due to the geography.

 

It'll be interesting to see whether there is a release of the actual Rolls Royce data.  It sounds like there's a ton of info to be gleaned from that, none of which has been made public yet, AFAIK.  (altitude and speed as well as how/where some recievers picked up the transmissions)  It's also interesting that the Rolls Royce data issue seems to be an unofficial "leak" - I thought I read that officially there was no such data.

[Colleen]

"quark", I won't quote you since you specifically asked not to be quoted.  I will say, though, that I appreciate your comments re Malaysian culture.  You provided valuable input and a reminder that one voice is not the be-all, end-all in the way of discussion.  Thank you.

 

 

 

[Colleen]

Why would a commercial airliner allow its transponder to be turned off at all? Seems like there should be tracking devices that can't be tampered with by humans.

 

I was just thinking the same thing.  Why the heck is there an 'off' switch on the transponder at all?  Under what conditions would a commercial airline legitimately need to turn that off?

 

Under what conditions?  Well, when Air Traffic Control asks to have it turned off is one prime example ~ think of how many planes are on approach at any given time.  Or, as a safety feature in the event of a short-circuit, etc that can lead to eventual fire.  All the technology in the world doesnt alter the fact that we do want the humans flying and directing these big birds to have some control over them; that's a good thing, and the vast majority of the time to our advantage.

[Pawz4me]

This says the US believes it went down in the Indian Ocean and are moving one of their ships to the area.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-malaysia-airline-crashed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802

 

CNN is now stating on their TV coverage that the U.S. Navy is sending more than one ship in that direction.

[Arcadia]

I had read, days ago, that 10 or 20 of the PAX worked for one company. I believe a Texas based company, but I'm not sure of the location.

 

OMG, if they are involved in EW, that is *VERY* bad, if they have been captured.

 

I hope and pray the aircraft is intact and that it is inside a hangar or parked on a runway, somewhere, and that the PAX and crew are OK.

 

The 20 people are working for Freescale which is a spinoff of Motorola. 

 

"Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE:FSL) has confirmed that 20 of its employees were confirmed passengers on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Twelve are from Malaysia and eight are from China"

 

"The 20 Freescale employees, among 239 people on flight MH370, were mostly engineers and other experts working to make the company's chip facilities in Tianjin, China, and Kuala Lumpur more efficient, said Mitch Haws, vice president, global communications and investor relations."

[zoobie]

Under what conditions? Well, when Air Traffic Control asks to have it turned off is one prime example ~ think of how many planes are on approach at any given time. Or, as a safety feature in the event of a short-circuit, etc that can lead to eventual fire. All the technology in the world doesnt alter the fact that we do want the humans flying and directing these big birds to have some control over them; that's a good thing, and the vast majority of the time to our advantage.

Ok, so "transponder" as a specific, technical device needs to be controlled by the pilot. Why isn't there some kind of technology for tracking the planes that doesn't interfere with airport radar? I'm shocked it doesn't exist, especially in our post-9/11 world.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Ok, so "transponder" as a specific, technical device needs to be controlled by the pilot. Why isn't there some kind of technology for tracking the planes that doesn't interfere with airport radar? I'm shocked it doesn't exist, especially in our post-9/11 world.

 

Probably because there is enough technology available now that it would be very rarely needed.

[Arcadia]

 Apparently, the fly in the ointment (and if you know otherwise, kindly correct me) is that since this is not an investigation being conducted by the U.S., (it is being conducted by Malaysia), the U.S., or anyone else for that matter, must wait until their assistance is requested.

 

An open invite for assistance was issued four days ago by the Foreign Ministry.  So in that sense, assistance has already been requested.

 

"KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysia welcomes assistance from other countries and international organisations in the search-and-rescue (SAR) operation for missing Malaysia Airlines (MAS) Flight MH370, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement here today."

 

The thing is how is the in command of this SAR going to handle the assistance rendered is up to the person/team.  What happens behind closed doors we don't know.  Military warships, helicopters and satellites are involved in the SAR. I believed the military code of silence is being observed.  I used to work in military air bases and there are many bilateral agreements which include aid rendering, I won't blab whatever was discussed within four walls. 

 

Most countries there won't have a drill for potential SAR.    Volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, typhoons are typical disasters.  Let's just hope the plane crash landed in the jungle.

 

Hope I make sense.

[Colleen]

Ok, so "transponder" as a specific, technical device needs to be controlled by the pilot. Why isn't there some kind of technology for tracking the planes that doesn't interfere with airport radar? I'm shocked it doesn't exist, especially in our post-9/11 world.

 

The technology does exist, is used to an extent, and will eventually be used widely ~ replacing radar. I won't try to explain it here as my own understanding is limited.  Look up ADS-B (automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast) if you're interested in learning more.

[wendyroo]

Does anybody know if there is cell coverage where the plane was last heard from?

 

DH and I were discussing this yesterday and he says there probably isn't once you are out at sea, but they weren't really that far out at sea so I'm not sure I agree.

 

I find it hard to imagine that the plane could fly for a significant period of time after the transponder was turned off (either turning around or to where the oil rig worker reports seeing something or for three more hours like the engine may or may not have transmitted) with no one making a cell phone distress call.  If the plane's electrical got completely cut off, clearly the passengers would know something was very wrong and would be frantically making phone calls.  If the plane got hijacked, well, there were 200+ passengers, how could the hijackers possibly subdue all of them before even one distress call was made?

 

Wendy

[Arcadia]

Does anybody know if there is cell coverage where the plane was last heard from?

 

...

 

I find it hard to imagine that the plane could fly for a significant period of time after the transponder was turned off (either turning around or to where the oil rig worker reports seeing something or for three more hours like the engine may or may not have transmitted) with no one making a cell phone distress call.  

 

There is cell coverage but the signal would be weak.  Not much use unless the plane landed somewhere close to a cell tower.  Also, we don't know how many passengers have auto-roam on their cellphones.  If the plane did crash somewhere, passengers without auto-roam or local provider would not be able to make a call except for the SOS call which operators are obliged to put through for free.

 

The cell phone signal when the plane is airborne is not strong enough to make a call.  I think there is no inflight Wi-Fi service on MAS so people wouldn't be able to message while on board. 

 

This foxnews article does give a nice explanation. "Why passenger cellphones can't help locate missing Malaysian air jet"

[Chelli]

I was curious if they could even tell they were going the wrong direction.

 

If the transponder was turned off would the in-flight map even be working to tell them where their position was?

[Lanny]

My wife posted a link to this article on her Facebook. The article is from the U.A.E.  The U.A.E. was one of a handful of countries using the Interpol database, to check for stolen passports, etc.,  before this incident. Possibly the method described in this article will help the Malaysian authorities...   I doubt that the author of this story made this up, Witch Doctors, and if that is correct, this is scary...

 

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=%2Fdata%2Feditorial%2F2014%2FMarch%2Feditorial_March27.xml&section=editorial

[Trish]

Seems like the pinging was picked up by some kind of satellite?

 

I would certainly like to know in this security-conscious age, by what means this plane would be commandeered. I was reading about it being possible to override the plane's GPS with "fake" signals. Not that it would apply here, necessarily, but the thought that it could be done is a little disconcerting.

[6packofun]

I know pure speculation doesn't help,but I can't help wonder about a scenario is in which the plane is hijacked and we have a Flight 93 type situation where the plane crashes as passengers help bring it down in the ocean, assuming they know the (nefarious) intentions of the hijackers.  Yes, we may never know those details, but I'm curious if, when they find the plane (if it's in the water) if they can note the location of specific people in specific parts of the plane?  (Sorry if that's morbid, and I don't know that they'll be identifiable by the time they get there at this rate.)  I just feel for the families, the not knowing.

[momto10blessings]

I know pure speculation doesn't help,but I can't help wonder about a scenario is in which the plane is hijacked and we have a Flight 93 type situation where the plane crashes as passengers help bring it down in the ocean, assuming they know the (nefarious) intentions of the hijackers. Yes, we may never know those details, but I'm curious if, when they find the plane (if it's in the water) if they can note the location of specific people in specific parts of the plane? (Sorry if that's morbid, and I don't know that they'll be identifiable by the time they get there at this rate.) I just feel for the families, the not knowing.

Exactly the scenario that has been going through my head.

[Word Nerd]

"Theorising" is how our little human minds deal with tragedy and loss. It is our human nature to fill in details and to try to make sense of what happened. This is not incompatible with deep care and compassion. Everyone deals differently. Some imagine the worst in order to find relief that the worst didn't happen. Some grasp for straws. I can't see what aspect of it is disrespectful in this context.

 

:iagree: What's actually disrespectful? Assigning a negative intent and making assumptions about others' motives.

[Arcadia]

Apparently the search would enlarge to Myanmar (Burma) according to Myanmar Times today. There is a map on the news link.

 

"DCA deputy director general U Win Swe Tun said the regional aviation control centre in Kuala Lumpur had requested permission to search Myanmar’s waters around Kawthoung on March 11.

“The regional control centre requested us on March 11 to permit search and rescue operations for MH370 in Myanmar airspace and Myanmar territorial waters in Kawthoung and nearby regions. In our aviation agreements we are to provide help and support if something like this happens so we already informed them that we allow them to do search operations,†he told The Myanmar Times.

A source close to the DCA said three aircraft from Malaysia, along with one each from New Zealand, Australia and the United States, are likely to conduct search operations in Myanmar.

“Since we have already given permission, they just need to inform us [about the scale of  the] search and rescue operations, [including] how many aircraft, the types of the aircraft and so on. So far we haven’t got reply from them yet,†said U Win Swe Tun."

[Aelwydd]

According to Reuters:

 

 

KUALA LUMPUR (REUTERS) - Military radar-tracking evidence suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliberately flown across the Malay peninsula towards the Andaman Islands, sources familiar with the investigation told Reuters on Friday.

 

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints - indicating it was being flown by someone with aviation training - when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

 

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying towards India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, they said.

 

 

Which just detracts from my whole theory that USOs abducted the plane.

[Lanny]

I believe, at this time, that the aircraft did not disintegrate, while cruising at 35,000 feet ASL.  Apparently, communications systems were turned off, manually, with 10 or 20 minutes between the times they were turned off. Someone was flying the aircraft and that person  had the knowledge about how to do that.  Who was flying the aircraft, and who was in command, at that time, is something, that hopefully, with time, the authorities will be able to discover.

 

Whether this was a hijacking with the intent of taking hostages, or getting the aircraft, possibly for use as a Missile, as on 9/11, or whatever, or a pilot suicide, is something we must pray that they are eventually able to figure out.

 

Possibly the people who were aboard the aircraft are still alive. 

 

Last night, on FoxNews.com I watched a video which included the Minister of Transport in Malaysia.  I was not impressed with what he had to say. Probably he is exhausted. Probably he is also incompetent. I had the impression that he has very little use for the technology that China, the USA, and other countries trying to help Malaysia with this search have available to him. He seemed to reject all of the information they have provided as being incorrect. From that, I suspect Malaysia does not have a close working relationship with the USA. 

 

Let us continue to pray for those who were aboard this flight and for their families and those who are trying to help.

[MariannNOVA]

I believe, at this time, that the aircraft did not disintegrate, while cruising at 35,000 feet ASL. Apparently, communications systems were turned off, manually, with 10 or 20 minutes between the times they were turned off. Someone was flying the aircraft and that person had the knowledge about how to do that. Who was flying the aircraft, and who was in command, at that time, is something, that hopefully, with time, the authorities will be able to discover.

 

Whether this was a hijacking with the intent of taking hostages, or getting the aircraft, possibly for use as a Missile, as on 9/11, or whatever, or a pilot suicide, is something we must pray that they are eventually able to figure out.

 

Possibly the people who were aboard the aircraft are still alive.

 

Last night, on FoxNews.com I watched a video which included the Minister of Transport in Malaysia. I was not impressed with what he had to say. Probably he is exhausted. Probably he is also incompetent. I had the impression that he has very little use for the technology that China, the USA, and other countries trying to help Malaysia with this search have available to him. He seemed to reject all of the information they have provided as being incorrect. From that, I suspect Malaysia does not have a close working relationship with the USA.

 

Let us continue to pray for those who were aboard this flight and for their families and those who are trying to help.

I did not listen to anything after 5:30 p.m. An individual on cnn did say, when asked about Malaysia, that this event would be something totally overwhelming for the Malaysian government. There has never been an event such as this involving them so they have no previous experience regarding what to do. This person went on to say, and this was fascinating, that the country does not deal with tsunamis, earthquakes, tornados, volcanos,........nothing that would require having an Emergency Plan in place. From a basic, logical point of view, that would explain a lot.

 

And, yes, I agree........from where we all sit, prayers are definitely in order.

 

And, Lanny........I was thinking of this question and wanted to ask you: is there any reason to perhaps go back over other transmissions where this specific pilot signs off for the night? Is this his signature sign off? It is his voice? Are these voice transmission recordings even saved? I was just wondering.

[FaithManor]

You know Mriann, I thought the same thing because if tha is not the normal sign off for that pilot, the wording is such that I could imagine it being a hint that something was wrong..."Gee ii hope they pick up on the fact thatthis sounds weird."

 

Given the sheer number of flights globally per day, I would not be shocked if recordings of non-incident related flight communications are deleted. It would be a staggering amount of recordings to sift through. Maybe someone who has worked with this pilot in the past will come forward, assuming of course the authorities even have a reason to ask about it.

[MariannNOVA]

You know Mriann, I thought the same thing because if tha is not the normal sign off for that pilot, the wording is such that I could imagine it being a hint that something was wrong..."Gee ii hope they pick up on the fact thatthis sounds weird."

 

Given the sheer number of flights globally per day, I would not be shocked if recordings of non-incident related flight communications are deleted. It would be a staggering amount of recordings to sift through. Maybe someone who has worked with this pilot in the past will come forward, assuming of course the authorities even have a reason to ask about it.

Faith........I was actually for about a minute playing games in my head with the first letter of each word the pilot said, etc........

 

I do agree that non incident related transcripts would not be archived.

[FaithManor]

I hope that other crew members from his professional past will come forward, if they haven't already because in an investigation of this nature we can't expect the authorities to do a tell all, and say, "When I flew with him, he always said 'smooth sailing' or 'no worries' " or (whatever his usual was) or "NOPE, that is not normal for him."

 

Does anyone know this, are pilots oft times casual with air traffic control or is there usually a protocol of acceptable responses when breaking communication for a while? It would be interesting to know what the "usual" is.

[MariannNOVA]

I hope that other crew members from his professional past will come forward, if they haven't already because in an investigation of this nature we can't expect the authorities to do a tell all, and say, "When I flew with him, he always said 'smooth sailing' or 'no worries' " or (whatever his usual was) or "NOPE, that is not normal for him."

 

Does anyone know this, are pilots oft times casual with air traffic control or is there usually a protocol of acceptable responses when breaking communication for a while? It would be interesting to know what the "usual" is.

my personal experience is that casual is okay, as long as it is articulate and appropriate. Keep in mind that pilots and atc individuals do 'get to know' each other even if only over the frequency over which they always speak.

[DawnM]

Isn't theorizing how we find answers?  If no one had theories, we wouldn't know what to look for.

 

Lighting a candle doesn't find the plane or the people on board.

 

I realize we aren't solving the issue here, but it is a riddle and this is exactly how the powers that be are determining where to look, what to look for, who saw what, and what the answers may hold.

 

We are doing the same, albeit from a spectator's position.

 

It is very respectful to want the people found to bring closure and/or live family members home.  The latter is the best case scenario and I really hope and pray they did land somewhere and just can't communicate at this time.

 

 

I actually think it's kinda tacky to be 'theorising'.

 

It's one thing to follow and share news as it comes to hand. Entertaining ourselves with 'theories' is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

If people feel moved by the fate of the unfortunate passengers and airline staff, maybe praying, lighting a candle, meditating on loving-kindness for the family members and friends might be the way to go.

 

This theory stuff feels disrespectful to me.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.