Has Anyone Read French Kids Eat Everything?

[Mrs Mungo]

:lol: It's a common theme among my friends. Obviously not every night is so easy, but I admit part of the reason I breastfeed is laziness. I had to bottle-feed my oldest two after 9 and 2 months, respectively. It was suchhhhhh a pain. Seriously-washing, sterilizing, preparing, cleaning. And then a bottle that would get lost under a couch? *shudder* And waking up to do this in the middle of the night? I am way too lazy for that! :lol:

I wouldn't say those are the reasons that I chose to breastfeed, but they were definite benefits. ;)

[abba12]

Yeah see that is something here a lot of restaurants are not flexible about. When we have gone to Germany, many restaurants don't have a kid's menu or kid's portions, but they don't mind if you just give them some of your food. Here, nope, they don't go for that.

I have never encountered that myself, here in australia, and I am so thankful for it! As I've mentioned before, I suffer severe hyperemesis in pregnancy, and there's a few things we do to make that period of time more enjoyable. One is, once I get my medication balanced, we go out to eat quite frequently. Because what I can actually eat is so small at that stage, eating out becomes quite cheap as we don't order drinks. last pregnancy we either shared a plate between dh, dd1, and I, perhaps with an extra side for dh, or he got a main and I split an entree with dd1. This time around dd1, dd2, and I shared a main 3 ways while dh got his own dish, and considering the leftovers we usually had, if there's a next time I could see myself splitting 4 ways.

 

I never once was refused or charged a fee, and australians don't tip, wait staff are paid a full wage comparable to any retail job. I considered our high frequency visits during that 4 month period (probably 2 times a week at actual resteraunts, not fast food which is also consumed a little too frequently over those 4 months) to make up for the small bill, because if we couldn't split we wouldn't eat out.

 

It allowed dh to not worry about cooking on weekdays alongside work and caring for me and the kids, gave me a difference in scenery and helped keep me positive, and gave the kids some great food experiences and a nice family tradition during a very hard time. Very thankful it was possible.

 

Now I am 24 weeks and back cooking most nights, we tend to eat adventurous food at home too. Dd1 refused veg of any kind between about 18mo-26mo or so, but now eats fairly well with us. Her favourite takeout is sushi, and not just tuna avo rolls, she LOVES seaweed salad and pickled ginger and salmon sashimi etc, I usually split a large bento box with her. And on shopping night we usually go trip this amazing curry place with great prices and quality, she wolfs down curry with us very happily. Her favourite veg is broccoli, always has been, and cherry tomatoes get eaten like grapes around here. This is all despite a high reliance on baby food with her, which has not been an issue with dd2

 

Something interesting I notice is dd1 loves the idea of a burger, she frequently asks for burgers (fast food during hyperemesis has caused that) but when she gets them she never eats them. She picks the cheese off, takes a couple of bites maybe, and that's it. She doesn't actually like them but has gained a perception she should or something... I'm not even exactly sure the cause but I find it very interesting

[mommymilkies]

Wait, she blames breastfeeding???  She guilt trips breastfeeding? 

Yeah.  She said that basically the French almost never bf (true, their rates are very low and it's something the Ministry is trying to change) and that all of the babies there were better eaters and sleepers because they were fed on a very strict formula diet and babies were never fed except at certain times.  She basically glorified this.  I'm sorry, but research shows this to be damaging, not helpful.  I don't care if you bf or ff, but if a baby is screaming for food, please to God feed it! KWIM? 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Yeah.  She said that basically the French almost never bf (true, their rates are very low and it's something the Ministry is trying to change) and that all of the babies there were better eaters and sleepers because they were fed on a very strict formula diet and babies were never fed except at certain times.  She basically glorified this.  I'm sorry, but research shows this to be damaging, not helpful.  I don't care if you bf or ff, but if a baby is screaming for food, please to God feed it! KWIM? 

 

Well, when I agreed with her, I only agreed with the idea of feeding kids real foods.  When she says stuff like that it shows that she is just blowing stuff out her rear end.  Repeating myself ... I am sick to death of the "I am French and I am better than you in every way" attitude, even when they aren't. 

 

[mommymilkies]

Well, when I agreed with her, I only agreed with the idea of feeding kids real foods.  When she says stuff like that it shows that she is just blowing stuff out her rear end.  Repeating myself ... I am sick to death of the "I am French and I am better than you in every way" attitude, even when they aren't. 

I agree.  I am 100% for feeding kids real foods.  Mostly the poor stereotypes and the super high anxiety the book exudes irritated me.  There was good info there, though.  Which is why I'm keeping it for now. :)

[Mom in High Heels]

When Indy was younger, he and I always split a meal, because he preferred the adult menu food choices, but couldn't eat it all.  He now eats more than me, so that doesn't work.  Han Solo often eats part of my meal now, but at almost 3, he doesn't eat a whole lot of it.  We've never had a problem sharing or been charged a splitting fee.  Of course most of our eating out was done in Europe, but even the times we did it in the US we never had a problem.  In fact James Bond and I went out this past Sat (without the kids!) and went to Red Robin, because I wanted the Whiskey River BBQ wrap.  I can't eat the whole thing, so JB and I ordered one and told the server we were splitting it, which was no big deal.  He ate half, I ate the other, and we split the fries.  We left the restaurant satisfied, but not overly full.  We both drink water (because we like it, not because we're cheap!), so our total bill came to around $8, and we left a generous tip.  

BTW, Han Solo tried sushi for the first time today.  He mostly had the rice, with just a bit of shrimp and avocado, but he liked it.  After he ate it, he said "Oh, dat good shushi!"  He says shushi, not sushi.

[sassenach]

I just can't imagine no snacks. My 11yo eats on the hobbit plan- first breakfast, second breakfast, first lunch, second lunch, dinner, and post-dinner dinner. The seconds are usually large snacks of fruit, nuts, yogurt or cheese in some combination. He is an athlete with not an ounce of fat on him. He really wouldn't make it with snacks. The girls could probably get by, but I don't really see the point of making them.

 

They all eat a decent variety of foods.

[Mom in High Heels]

I just can't imagine no snacks. My 11yo eats on the hobbit plan- first breakfast, second breakfast, first lunch, second lunch, dinner, and post-dinner dinner. The seconds are usually large snacks of fruit, nuts, yogurt or cheese in some combination. He is an athlete with not an ounce of fat on him. He really wouldn't make it with snacks. The girls could probably get by, but I don't really see the point of making them.

 

They all eat a decent variety of foods.

 

Oh, I meant to bring this up in my earlier post and forgot.  Indy does only get a snack in the afternoon (around 3:30/4), but Han Solo snacks all day.  I swear there are days when he seems like a bottomless pit.  He only eats when he's hungry, so if he asks, I know he's really hungry.  Indy was the same way at this age.  Han Solo likes those baby fruit/veggie pouches and eats one of those almost daily.  He also likes crackers (Ritz and whole grain Club crackers, which he calls Spongebob crackers, because they are a rectangle, and apparently that makes them look like Spongebob), pretzels, string cheese and yogurt (now that he can handle a bit of dairy), grapes, blueberries, mango, honeydew and watermelon, and pomegranate seeds (I have to feed him those though!).   He always eats well at meal times, unless he's tired, so I can't begrudge him his snacks.  He is a busy boy, and needs fuel.  As he gets older, we'll probably cut back a bit on the snacking, but for now, there's no way.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I just can't imagine no snacks. My 11yo eats on the hobbit plan- first breakfast, second breakfast, first lunch, second lunch, dinner, and post-dinner dinner. The seconds are usually large snacks of fruit, nuts, yogurt or cheese in some combination. He is an athlete with not an ounce of fat on him. He really wouldn't make it with snacks. The girls could probably get by, but I don't really see the point of making them.

 

They all eat a decent variety of foods.

 

I don't think anyone in this thread (or in France!) is advocating for no snacks!  The so-called "French way" everyone is talking about is no grazing.  Dedicated snack times, usually sitting down at the table. 

 

Some families have an open kitchen/snack policy where kids can graze as they wish basically all day long.  If that works for a family, than so be it! 

 

But the method most of us are talking about is just making a set "snack time" so that when kids sit down for a meal they are (theoretically...) hungry enough to not get too picky.  :-)  That's the idea, I know it isn't for everyone.  In our own house, we have three sit-down meals plus one mid-afternoon sit-down snack.  My 2 year old will often also request a fruit mid-morning, and she gets one. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Also, I believe the subset of moms on WTM are generally more proactive in providing nutritious choices.  If a child is grazing on fruits, veggies, nuts, protein all day rather than eating set meals, there is no reason to think this isn't a perfectly healthy alternative to set meal times. 

 

However, the families I know IRL that allow grazing have kids grazing on mostly processed carbohydrates- chips, crackers, bread products... rather than whole foods.  And although it's anecdotal, every grazing family I know has extremely picky kids. 

[Pawz4me]

I don't think anyone in this thread (or in France!) is advocating for no snacks!  The so-called "French way" everyone is talking about is no grazing.  Dedicated snack times, usually sitting down at the table. 

 

Some families have an open kitchen/snack policy where kids can graze as they wish basically all day long.  If that works for a family, than so be it! 

 

But the method most of us are talking about is just making a set "snack time" so that when kids sit down for a meal they are (theoretically...) hungry enough to not get too picky.  :-)  That's the idea, I know it isn't for everyone.  In our own house, we have three sit-down meals plus one mid-afternoon sit-down snack.  My 2 year old will often also request a fruit mid-morning, and she gets one. 

 

The OP's original post says the book says "no snacks."  Without any qualifications.  I think that's what those of us who haven't read the book are going on.

 

And FWIW, I don't "get" scheduled snacks anymore than I "get" the notion that we should eat at arbitrary, pre-determined meal times.  There is no model in nature for that as far as I know.

[momma2three]

The OP's original post says the book says "no snacks."  Without any qualifications.  I think that's what those of us who haven't read the book are going on.

 

And FWIW, I don't "get" scheduled snacks anymore than I "get" the notion that we should eat at arbitrary, pre-determined meal times.  There is no model in nature for that as far as I know.

 

It's true that other animals don't do it, but there's also proof that the primary reason humans evolved the powerful brains we did because of a steady, regular diet of cooked protein... and considering that the earliest human settlements seem to show group living quarters with large, single cooking fires, it probably means that humans have evolved eating at pre-determined meal times for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

The OP's original post says the book says "no snacks."  Without any qualifications.  I think that's what those of us who haven't read the book are going on.

 

And FWIW, I don't "get" scheduled snacks anymore than I "get" the notion that we should eat at arbitrary, pre-determined meal times.  There is no model in nature for that as far as I know.

 

Ok, I see.  I have not actually read the book, but another like it.  It is possible that the author does not actually even consider the "gouter" (afternoon snack) a snack, but rather a small fourth meal.  In the same way that I don't think the English consider "tea" to be the same as a snack, but rather more like a light meal. 

 

As far as examples of set meal time in nature (a.k.a. periodic fasting)- there are many.   Not every animal is a periodic fasting animal, many forage all day, but many eat, and then do not eat again until they have digested the meal- most predators will not keep hunting on a full stomach.  We humans happen to have invented clocks, and I imagine our meal scheduling has evolved to fit with the average stomach-emptying time for a region's particular diet. 

 

Whether or not a family grazes or eats at pre-planned times that are developmentally appropriate is really not something that is "right" or "wrong".  The issue of health really only seems to arise when a child is not receiving enough calories because food is actually being restricted to the point of starvation, or when "snack food" is equal to what gas stations sell as "snack food", aka junk food.

[GSOchristie]

My kids do not get snacks unless they eat their whole meal, they can go back and finish that meal. Ergo, my little two never get a snack. They don't get a choice at meals, eat what I've fixed or not. My little two still don't eat dinner half the time. My four year old will eat a huge variety of vegetables, including sautéed collards and roasted asparagus, but will eat hardly any meat or fish. My two year old will eat any fruit, oatmeal, cheese, and chicken...sometimes. I just think that some kids are not going to eat, it doesn't matter what method you try. My seven year old will only eat baby carrots and green beans for vegetables, he's been repeatedly offered every vegetable under the sun. I've even taken him several times to Earthfare and let him choose a new and exciting vegetable, then a recipe containing said veggie. They make him gag. If you push it, he throws up on the table.

 

I figure one day they'll eat...or not...but at least I've done my part :).

[trinchick]

I changed our snack policy in the past couple of weeks, but not due to nutritional concerns. We previously let the kids roam around the house with anything they wanted, and we have the stained upholstery to prove it! Last week when DD spilled chocolate ice cream on a living room chair, I'd had enough.

 

New rule: all eating takes place in the kitchen with the exception of popcorn on designated official movie nights. They can snack whenever they want and have (just about) anything they want, but they have to sit at the table while they eat it.
 

As a happy consequence, I now know that the kids are only eating when they're truly hungry. They don't want to give up playing/watching TV for mindless snacking.

 

I should have done this a while ago - for their health as well as for my furniture!

[MBM]

Food problems are often more complex than they appear. Emotional, political and socio-economic issues play crucial roles as well.

 

The most interesting issue to me is the impact emotions have on our health. For example, a certain percentage of obesity cases can be attributed to trauma such as sexual abuse, beatings, bullying, insecure attachment, acrimonious divorces, etc. In the victims' minds, the weight soothes their negative emotions and/or protects them by making them less noticeable/desirable to abusers. Brain circuity tends to persist throughout life unless an individual works to change it. Good psychotherapy and meditation can improve it.

 

Here is an excerpt from the following link explaining why Dr. Vincent Felitti's obesity clinic saw so many clients initially lose weight, then quit when they were successfully losing only to regain the weight.

 

Of the 286 people whom Felitti and his colleagues interviewed, most had been sexually abused as children. As startling as this was, it turned out to be less significant than another piece of the puzzle that dropped into place during an interview with a woman who had been raped when she was 23 years old. In the year after the attack, she told Felitti that she’d gained 105 pounds.

 

“As she was thanking me for asking the question,†says Felitti, “she looks down at the carpet, and mutters, ‘Overweight is overlooked, and that’s the way I need to be.’â€

 

During that encounter, a realization struck Felitti. It’s a significant detail that many physicians, psychologists, public health experts and policymakers haven’t yet grasped: The obese people that Felitti was interviewing were 100, 200, 300, 400 overweight, but they didn’t see their weight as a problem. To them, eating was a fix, a solution. (There’s a reason an IV drug user calls a dose a “fixâ€.)

 

Unless the trauma is dealt with, the problem will remain and even lead to more chronic health problems. Here is more from the ACEs study:

 

http://acestoohigh.com/2012/10/03/the-adverse-childhood-experiences-study-the-largest-most-important-public-health-study-you-never-heard-of-began-in-an-obesity-clinic/

 

When you add those problems to our government policies and socio-economic problems, we have a recipe for health problems.

 

[abba12]

Seconding the set snack 'time' as being a meal rather than grazing.

 

It's becoming more Americanized these days I think, but growing up, the standard meal schedule was Breakfast at 7, morning tea at 10, lunch at 12 or 1, afternoon tea at 3, dinner at 6 (and on weekends, desert! Also most kids knew that adults had a 6th meal, a 'snack' later at night.) Primary schools have 'little lunch' at 10:30ish, and 'big lunch' at 1, and daycare usually provides afternoon tea as children arrive from school, or it's eaten on the bus, so it was a common enough routine that almost all children were on it. Grazing was never an option. Morning and afternoon tea were never considered snacks in my opinion, a snack was an occasional bag of chips or something cool like that. They were small meals in themselves, often prepared by mum. I distinctly remember as a child having to wait for afternoon tea time. It's how I first learned to tell time! Our afternoon tea time was 2:30, and I would watch the clock waiting to run and get whatever was our afternoon tea that day (often something sweet) and I certainly was not allowed to go and get food before that time, if I was hungry I should have eaten more lunch. 4pm was the cut off for eating, definitely no food after that unless dad brought home a treat, otherwise I would ruin my appetite for dinner.

 

I'm sure this sounds horrific to the attachment, child led parents out there, but I believe the routine helped me to develop good eating habits and an understanding of hunger, and eating in response to hunger, not out of fun or boredom, and choosing to fill the majority of our daily calories with good, hot food, not snack type foods which served as a spacer only.

 

My times are more flexible but we keep a similar routine here, morning tea is often a baked item or yogurt around 10ish, and afternoon tea is directly after naptime/quiet time, and is fruit, veggie sticks, crackers with vegemite, or occasionally jelly or an iceblock (jello or ice lolly to americans I think). While fluids were never restricted, we HAD to have a drink with every meal, which also helped prevent the chronic dehydration a lot of people seem to have these days. It means I can plan ahead easily for 3 big and 2 little healthy meals each day, and my kids have a good healthy appetite when lunch and dinner roll around. They aren't filling up on calories from snack foods, in fact I am more likely to restrict the portion size of one of the 'teas' and make one of the main meals larger, rather than letting the kids fill up on snacking, which means I can buy exactly how much fruit/yogurt etc I need.

[Mrs Mungo]

Attachment parenting is NOT meant to be child led. Yes, some parents use it that way, but that is not how it is described by Dr. Sears.

 

Again, I don't limit snacking to specific times. I encourage snacking. But, all of my children are underweight, and one of them has a significant medical issue. In no way did I state anyone else *should* run their home the way that I run mine. It is a little absurd to state that anyone would consider limiting snacking to be "horrific."

[Maela]

I've read most of the book (library book and requested so I had to return it) and I really liked it.  

 

I pretty much agree with everything HoppyTheToad and Monica_in_Switzerland said.

 

My kids are great eaters, but I don't know if I can completely take credit for that.  Might just be luck. 

 

Since reading that book (almost a year ago?), we've cut out our morning snack.  The kids just know now that they won't be eating again until lunch time, and they no longer are constantly saying, "I'm huuunngrryy!"  I think they were just bored.  

 

We also have only one snack ("tea time").  It's usually a graham cracker and tea, a piece of fruit and nuts and tea, or (if they have any candy given to them) a piece of candy and tea.

 

Then they wait until dinner time.  After dinner, we usually have a small dessert.  Like some berries and cream or a banana with a few chocolate chips.

 

 

 

ETA:  Also have to say how much Dh and I dislike the Kids' Menus at most restaurants.  We usually just have them split an adult meal.  

[Susan in TN]

:lol:  It's a common theme among my friends.  Obviously not every night is so easy, but I admit part of the reason I breastfeed is laziness.  I had to bottle-feed my oldest two after 9 and 2 months, respectively.  It was suchhhhhh a pain.  Seriously-washing, sterilizing, preparing, cleaning.  And then a bottle that would get lost under a couch? *shudder*  And waking up to do this in the middle of the night?  I am way too lazy for that!   :lol:

 

For my one bottle-fed child, I found it much, MUCH easier than breastfeeding.   My breastfed children were NOT easy to nurse.

[happypamama]

I have not read the book, but my four children who eat solid food so far are generally non-picky eaters. They all have their moments, but largely, they eat most things. They'll eat the typical kid food, desserts, vegetables, steak, spicy stuff, pretty much whatever. We usually have a mid-morning snack and then a slightly later lunch (like 2 pm), but I really don't encourage an all-day grazing sort of thing.

 

ETA: I don't know why my kids are generally non-picky; I think some of it is just the luck of the draw. We offer foods and will serve everyone a bit of everything, but there's no pressure to eat it if they don't want to. I don't offer an alternative, but there is generally at least one item that each person will eat, and it's not a big deal to me if someone eats a lot of broccoli one night but not much meat. I also think that maybe it helped that I have thus far been an extended nursing mama, so I've never fretted over what my one-year-olds ate or didn't eat; they ate what they wanted of what was offered, and breastmilk made up the rest of their diet, no worries. We don't have dessert every meal, or even every week, but I also don't worry about things like the occasional junk food or cake for breakfast. My only real rule is that if you don't feel like eating the vegetable that is served, you also don't get to take more of the protein, because meat is expensive, and everyone in my family likes it. But my kids also like vegetables.

 

Also ETA: I don't mind kid food on the menu at restaurants. We rarely eat out, but when we do, the boys order from the kid menu. (DD needs more food now, so she orders from the adult menu.) I figure it's something different from what they usually eat -- they get kid food, I got a steak last time, DH orders a fancy burger. . . When we go to our favorite Indian restaurant, the kids have no problem eating the food there and will happily try new things. (We usually order a batch of pakoras or samosas for toddlers.)

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Attachment parenting is NOT meant to be child led. Yes, some parents use it that way, but that is not how it is described by Dr. Sears.

 

Again, I don't limit snacking to specific times. I encourage snacking. But, all of my children are underweight, and one of them has a significant medical issue. In no way did I state anyone else *should* run their home the way that I run mine. It is a little absurd to state that anyone would consider limiting snacking to be "horrific."

 

Agreed.  I consider myself "AP" style (BF on demand, night parent on demand... at least the last two kids!, etc.) and when my kids want a snack I very lovingly say "No way buster".  :-) 

[shawthorne44]

I think the latter is more common than the former. One Thanksgiving when we had a bunch of people over, I made roasted balsamic glazed brussels sprouts with bacon. *None* of the ten or so *adults* present had ever eaten them before. I think there was a time period in the US when canned veggies really took over. Most veggies aren't great out of a can, and most people just boiled them. Boiled asparagus out of a can is terrible. So, people thought they hated asparagus. It was a real surprise to dh when he learned that he actually liked fresh, properly cooked asparagus.

 

I heard this when looking into German cooking, and I think it is equally true of America.  Until recently, the idea was to "Cook vegetables until they can't hurt you."  So, basically over-cooked. 

Then maybe in the 80's (90's) the idea was to eat vegetables raw.

I started on Medifast, and discovering properly cooked vegetables.  Truly amazing!  Mashed Cauliflower.  Roasted Radishes.  Roasted Broccoli.  slightly steamed Asparagus. Yum! 

 

I remember reading that they think there is a reason toddlers are picky eaters.  Basically, in a hunter/gatherer society when toddlers started to be able to toddle out of sight of their parents, there might be plants with things_to_eat, and plants with things_that_kill_you.  Being only willing to eat the familiar foods was a VERY good thing in that situation. 

 

The tone of the book put me off. 

[Dory]

The whole breastfeeding is easier thing bugs me big time. Feeding every hour because the kid is having troubles latching on and not getting enough is tiring. Even every two hours, because the baby is a preemie is tiring. Being chapped and bleeding is NOT more convenient than using a bottle. I felt guilty over it, but when my boys moved to a bottle later on, I felt relieved. I nursed as long as I could handle it which meant 9 months with my oldest (I had to stop because I was losing too much weight) and almost a year with my youngest. But it was not easy, by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't do it out of convenience. Seems strange to say, give them synthetically made food for the first 6 months and then only give them real adult food after that. Wouldn't it make more sense to say give them natural food (from mom) and then natural food after that. In the end, I can't figure out how on earth breastfeeding or bottle feeding is really going to make that huge of a difference on the kids eating habits. My dd was nursed the longest and she is the least picky eater, but I think she would've been that way regardless.

[mommymilkies]

For my one bottle-fed child, I found it much, MUCH easier than breastfeeding.   My breastfed children were NOT easy to nurse.

 

 

The whole breastfeeding is easier thing bugs me big time. Feeding every hour because the kid is having troubles latching on and not getting enough is tiring. Even every two hours, because the baby is a preemie is tiring. Being chapped and bleeding is NOT more convenient than using a bottle. I felt guilty over it, but when my boys moved to a bottle later on, I felt relieved. I nursed as long as I could handle it which meant 9 months with my oldest (I had to stop because I was losing too much weight) and almost a year with my youngest. But it was not easy, by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't do it out of convenience. Seems strange to say, give them synthetically made food for the first 6 months and then only give them real adult food after that. Wouldn't it make more sense to say give them natural food (from mom) and then natural food after that. In the end, I can't figure out how on earth breastfeeding or bottle feeding is really going to make that huge of a difference on the kids eating habits. My dd was nursed the longest and she is the least picky eater, but I think she would've been that way regardless.

I'm sorry for your experiences. :(  All of my kids were colicky.  Two have upper lip ties.  The reason I ended up ff my first two was because of terrible bf problems.  I also had the blistered, bleeding nipples.  Every experience is different.  Mastitis (I had another round last week!), bleeding nipples, latch issues, low supply, heavy let down and all still were easier than my ff experiences for ME.  That was what I was writing about.  And the author of the book didn't have bf issues-her issues were with the ff babies where were only fed something like 5 times a day as sleeping longer and how she felt like a failure because of that.  The anxiety and judging ourselves is the biggest foe here. And I agree, Dory, I think personality and sensory issues have a lot to do with it.  My exclusively extended bf 4th child has severe eating issues now (and an unresolved lip tie).  She had no bf issues (thankfully) other than a cashew allergy that made her colicky and ill until I figured out the problem.  Yet my kid with ALL of the bf issues is an amazing eater.  I think we blame some things way too heavily without taking into account individual personality and circumstances.  Most of the people in my family and that I know who bf do so for the money and ease.  But obviously not everyone.  And I wouldn't blame anyone for switching when they had problems-I did twice.   :grouphug:

[Maela]

Forgot to mention that I definitely did not like reading about how few French moms bf and even then for such a short time.  I bfed both my kids for a little over two years each.  I thought it was very difficult in the beginning, but by six months I felt like it seemed easier than having to use formula.  I think it's different for everyone though. 

[TravelingChris]

I bottle fed my three because of my health reasons which I needed to address with medications that were contraindicated for breastfeeding.  Anyway, I didn't find formula feeding anything all that difficult.  I would normally make a days worth of formula which I kept in the frig.  Bottles would go in the dishwasher along with nipples and rings.  The dishwasher washed everything to a good degree and I never felt I needed to wash or sterilize anything further.  None of my three kids ever had food poisoning from their formula.  ANyway, then I would make a bottle by pouring the premade formula into a clean bottle and closing with the clean nipple and ring.  My kids didn't mind drinking cold formula and they did do that.  None had any problems with the regimen and the nice thing was I could get my dh to do any part of it too.  My oldest two slept through the night (11-12 to about 6 am) from the time they were about a month old.  The youngest took about two months or maybe two and a half.  I don't know at what age this was but I think by the time they were about three months old, they were drinking 48 oz, a day.  My oldest two were hyperactive ADHD (didn't know that when they were so young, of course, but looking back I can see the differences with them) and both of them starting eating food around four months.  They were needing the extra calories since they had a high metabolism.  Youngest went without food for a bit longer.  But all my kids got teeth early and they were all eating at least some of the regular food by the time they were 8 months and by 12 months, they were off of formula, on regular whole milk and eating mostly what dh and I ate though in smaller pieces and avoiding certain chocking hazards.

[momma2three]

I think it's fairly safe to say that someone who feels so strongly about BFing that I assume it's where her username comes from is going to be really biased about the subject.   :lol:

 

I do think that starting the whole "It's easier!" argument on this thread was poor form.  For a lot of women, it's not.  This shouldn't be news to anyone.  It's also totally irrelevant to the topic.

[Guest]

This was about a North American mom who moved with her French husband and two kids (who'd lived in Canada) to France for a year. She noticed a difference right away in the French food culture of how they raised their kids as eaters. Gradually she implemented some French ideas into her home and saw drastic changes in her kids.

 

Most of the ideas in this book are not rocket science: no snacks, eat slow, don't cater to kids, but I really needed the reminder to be more firm with my kids and "to be in charge of their food education."

 

It was fascinating reading about the differences between the French, particularly how parents introduce vegetables first. They also expect their children to like a variety of foods more than we do in North America. It seems like sometimes we just accept that kids will just eat "kid foods" and nothing else. And the snacking thing. I've become more aware of how much I was snacking by doing the "No S" diet. But now I see how much my kids were filling up on snacks too.

 

I've already seen some positive changes from implementing some of the ideas in the book. But this book has got me thinking about how we feed our kids here in the States, even how things have changed since I was a kid.

 

Do you let your kids snack or do you limit snacks? Do you think the North American food culture contributes to picky eater syndrome?

I have not read that book, but the philosophy you mention is the way I fed my kids. They are good eaters. They are slim/fit and not picky eaters. Even my pickiest child still eats almost every food I present; the list of disliked foods by this child's account is small.

 

Principles that I followed from infancy: the food I present is what's for this meal. I have never, ever, ever catered to any child such as by making pork chops for the parents and mac-n-cheese for the kids. They always had the option to not eat something, but they have NEVER been allowed to opt for something else instead. So, my shrimp-disliking kid could eat plain noodles, with no shrimp primavera on it, but could not have a different dinner instead.

 

I also didn't emphasize perceived dislikes. I didn't want my most stubborn child to become emphatic about the disliked food, which would make it harder (embarrassing, really) to later reconsider.

 

Sugar kills the appetite, so no juices or sodas for daily beverages. No candy or junk food as a regular snack. If the kids have sugar drinks and foods at just any time, they are de-incentivized to try different foods or eat less-favored things. Much better for them to have worked up an appetite in time for dinner.

 

I do think you mostly get what you expect. There is no biological reason why my kids cannot eat asparagus, lettuce, salmon, green beans, whole grain bread, "real" macaroni with actual cheese, not orange powder, milk, apples, celery and cucumbers. So I always expected them to eat any of these things and more and they do.

 

I am not so proud that I don't recognize that I perhaps got lucky and just have un-picky eaters by chance. However, I WAS a very picky eater as a child and I do think my parents' approach to food was problematic.

[Guest]

Btw, (since the topic of BFing has come into the picture) I bf all my children. One difference, though, is as they got older (as in, over 6 months), I moved them on to eating regularly and nursing according to a routine. I am not a believer in child-led nursing forever; just for infancy. As they grew, I expected them to adapt to cultural norms of when to eat and that included nursing. I've never understood why a mother of an older baby thinks they must be nursed at any moment it occurs to them. I did not permit this and never had problems with nursing or weaning.

 

I do often see (american) parents who behave like it's a desperate emergency whenever their toddler, preschooler, or older child is hungry. I have wondered if these are the same parents who had to whip out a boob at a moment's notice, no matter the circumstances, nor the age of the child.

[Mrs Mungo]

I do think that starting the whole "It's easier!" argument on this thread was poor form. For a lot of women, it's not. This shouldn't be news to anyone. It's also totally irrelevant to the topic.

It isn't irrelevant when the book mentioned in the title of the thread brings it up as a reason that French kids are less picky. My kids were all breastfeed for over 2 years; they will eat nearly anything. And I don't think anyone said it was easier for everyone. But, it was certainly easier for me. My first latched on without any issue. I never had a moment of pain.

 

Even if you don't think washing bottles was that hard, don't you think not washing bottles, measuring formula, making sure you had enough when you went on outings and so forth is inherently more difficult than not having to do any of those things? I only said that the ease was a major benefit to me. I didn't say *anything* about anyone else's choices.

 

I do know women who are militant to the point of judging other people. I once took a ton of flack on an email list for suggesting a bipolar woman who was having hallucinations might be better off weaning and going back on her lithium. There is no judgment from me for not breastfeeding, whether it is for a medical reason or pure choice. Pointing out that some aspect of breastfeeding was beneficial *to me* doesn't say anything about anyone else.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It isn't irrelevant when the book mentioned in the title of the thread brings it up as a reason that French kids are less picky. 

I think it is irrelevant in the sense that anyone's opinion and personal anecdotes (including that of the book author) really don't give us a picture of whether breastfeeding or formula feeding leads to pickiness or not.  This article says that breastfeeding leads to less pickiness  http://news.illinois.edu/news/12/0308breastfeeding_JuheeKim.html  but I don't know how good the study is etc.  BUT  even if the study is an excellent one, it doesn't mean that all formula feeding is bad or leads to pick eaters either.  Studies that showed breastfeeding's benefits did lead me to breastfeed despite some big obstacles to it early on, though.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

It isn't irrelevant when the book mentioned in the title of the thread brings it up as a reason that French kids are less picky. 

I think it is irrelevant in the sense that anyone's opinion and personal anecdotes (including that of the book author) really don't give us a picture of whether breastfeeding or formula feeding leads to pickiness or not.  This article says that breastfeeding leads to less pickiness  http://news.illinois.edu/news/12/0308breastfeeding_JuheeKim.html  but I don't know how good the study is etc.  BUT  even if the study is an excellent one, it doesn't mean that all formula feeding is bad or leads to pick eaters either.  Studies that showed breastfeeding's benefits did lead me to breastfeed despite some big obstacles to it early on, though.  

[Mrs Mungo]

BUT even if the study is an excellent one, it doesn't mean that all formula feeding is bad or leads to pick eaters either.

Did anyone say that it does? I admit that I have been in pain this week and had a root canal earlier today, so I am really just skimming. I thought people were simply disagreeing that breastfeeding=picky eating and explaining their own reasons for doing it (much as you did).

[Jean in Newcastle]

Did anyone say that it does? I admit that I have been in pain this week and had a root canal earlier today, so I am really just skimming. I thought people were simply disagreeing that breastfeeding=picky eating and explaining their own reasons for doing it (much as you did).

No one said that it does.  I was just heading anyone off at the pass in case they thought that I was saying that!  

[Mrs Mungo]

No one said that it does. I was just heading anyone off at the pass in case they thought that I was saying that!

Gotcha. I thought I might have missed something. :)

[mommymilkies]

I think it's fairly safe to say that someone who feels so strongly about BFing that I assume it's where her username comes from is going to be really biased about the subject.   :lol:

 

I do think that starting the whole "It's easier!" argument on this thread was poor form.  For a lot of women, it's not.  This shouldn't be news to anyone.  It's also totally irrelevant to the topic.

 

Did you read my other posts?  I have bf and ff.  I can go into detail if you'd like.  The experience with my son was fairly traumatic with both of our health issues surrounding it.  Biased?  I suppose that means you are biased towards having 3 children, then.  Give me a break.  At least read what I wrote. And if you don't like it, it doesn't change what the author of the book said.  It was my opinion, as expressed, and I took issue with her blaming the wrong things and the anxiety over the situation, as you would see if you read my review or subsequent posts.  So let's not pull a straw man and attack me and my username while ignoring the actual issue in the book. 

 

And if it wasn't easier for many women, then we likely wouldn't have come this far before formula.  Thank goodness for formula.  I needed it for my two eldest kids.  It is extremely helpful.  I never said it wasn't.  

 

What I said: "And blaming Breastfeeding? Come on. Most people I know who breastfed do so because it's a lazy way to get more sleep and rest. And yes, I've stayed up months with colicky babies both breastfed and bottlefed.  Sure it's not easy for everyone, but going off of one anecdote as a reason for her to feel guilt for breastfeeding seems like she's using it as an excuse or another source of the overwhelming anxiety this book exudes. "

 

I followed this up with: "It's a common theme among my friends.  Obviously not every night is so easy, but I admit part of the reason I breastfeed is laziness.  I had to bottle-feed my oldest two after 9 and 2 months, respectively.  It was suchhhhhh a pain.  Seriously-washing, sterilizing, preparing, cleaning.  And then a bottle that would get lost under a couch? *shudder*  And waking up to do this in the middle of the night?  I am way too lazy for that!"

 

So do you have an actual issue with my words, or just my name and an implied bias because I am not terribly creative and just took the first words my little one said to me as a username (yes, I am THAT lacking in creativity!)? Because the subject was relevant to the topic-it is one of the topics of conversation in the book.  Poor form would be me going on a thread of a woman switching to formula after a bad bf experience and telling her she was a failure.  I don't believe that at all.  Read my posts if you're unclear about that. 

[PeacefulChaos]

:lol:

 

Well, unlike most of the posters on this thread, my kids don't eat 100% healthy foods all the time.  :)

Tonight we went to one of my best friend's surprise 30th birthday party.  They each had at least 2 marshmallows dipped in the chocolate fountain.  They ate brownies and chicken strips from WalMart.  

Every time Astro came back and asked me if he could have another cheese cube, I said yes.  :lol:

They had 2 cups of punch, too.  

Pretty sure they didn't touch the vegetables.  

 

But... when I said 'One more marshmallow' when they asked for that second one, they stuck to it... even when an adult joked with them that they could always go back and get more, and one even said he would go back and get one for them.  They still said 'no, my mom said no more marshmallows after those.'  Not in a whiny way - just matter of fact (I wasn't in the room - this was told to me later, second hand.)

 

Now, do they eat like that every day?  No.  But we have fruit snacks and cheez its.  I buy juice once in awhile but mostly they drink water.  But I'm not going to act like our eating habits are perfect.  

Seriously though, my eating habits are worse than theirs.  Something about sitting down with some chips and dip at the end of the night when i'm watching something... :)  Truthfully, I ate no snacks when I was in Thailand, they fed us a ton of food (and always plenty of rice! :lol: ) and when I came home our food made me feel sick for about a week.  For that time I had no difficulty sitting down at the computer with no snack or drink after the kids went to bed, and went to bed with my stomach comfortably empty.  I know I lost 5 lbs while I was gone - I'm not getting on the scale to see if it's come back.  I doubt it has, though.  But we do what our habits are, even if they are bad ones.  I've gone days, weeks, months without eating bad foods and somehow they always come back.  (the only bad foods would be the snack foods - salty snacks, mainly)

Now I'm not on here for you to lament on my poor eating choices.  I really don't care - I just find it interesting.  I kind of blame it on the fact that life here is boring.  :lol:  What else is there to do besides sit around and eat?

[Joules]

Also, I believe the subset of moms on WTM are generally more proactive in providing nutritious choices.  If a child is grazing on fruits, veggies, nuts, protein all day rather than eating set meals, there is no reason to think this isn't a perfectly healthy alternative to set meal times. 

 

However, the families I know IRL that allow grazing have kids grazing on mostly processed carbohydrates- chips, crackers, bread products... rather than whole foods.  And although it's anecdotal, every grazing family I know has extremely picky kids.

 

It took me a while to understand this. I went straight from bf on demand to letting him graze and eat whatever/whenever. IL and others thought this was awful, "He won't eat meals!". For me, the stuff in the fridge and on the counter that he grazed on was the same stuff that was going in the meals. The worst consequence was that there was there was no bell pepper left for the stir fry, but it ended up in his stomach either way. Because I had been celiac for years, I didn't keep all those snack foods, so I didn't know why what I was doing was so awful. I actually hoped if he ate to hunger he wouldn't end up with food problems.

 

He hasn't ended up picky at all and will eat anything. He does a good bit of cooking. He's now a teen boy who works out and eats a bazillion calories a day. We've only had to make a couple of changes: Some all day volunteer activities don't allow time for snacks so he has to make himself tank up ahead of time, so he doesn't get hungry. And there is a special shelf in the fridge where I put things I'm going to cook so they don't get inhaled.

 

Of course, I have a sample size of one, so he may have turned out at a perfect weight with great eating habits if I had banned snacks, too.

[happypamama]

My biggest problem with grazing is that I would constantly be getting food for someone, or reminding someone to keep the food at the table, or someone would see someone else eating something and then want it themselves even if they'd just eaten and then food would get wasted, etc. When it was just DD and me, we did graze a lot of the day -- it might turn out that we had never actually sat down at the table to eat a formal breakfast and lunch, but over the course of the day, we'd had plenty of nutritious foods. I do things differently now that I have a bunch of children, because I really need to (personally -- other people might be different), or I feel that things are too chaotic for me.

[DawnM]

My kids have always preferred real food and I always appreciated the restaurants that served real food in smaller portions for kids.

 

Now, if given the choice between broccoli and french fries……..well, even I would choose french fries, but if it came with both, I was happy.

 

I don't have a problem with snacking and grew up in more a British/Kenyan culture with 3 meals a day (largest being lunch time) and two tea times.  Morning Chai and Afternoon Tea.

 

Supper was light…..soup, small sandwich, salad……..

Lunch/Dinner was heavier, like an American evening meal

 

The truth is, you don't need a heavy meal in the evening.  You need it for fuel in the early portion of the day.  

 

However, now that I am in America, I no longer do that.