Landlord issue . . . question re: back lawn.

[Alicia64]

Background: the landlord was trying to sell this house by owner. It didn't sell after two years. I said we'd love to rent. After a lot of coaxing she agreed.

 

We pay $1900 -- not a small amount.

 

Anyway, I've said that we'll seed the FRONT yawn and make it pretty for spring. I'm having the crepe myrtle thinned. I'm having a yard company mow, blow and trim bushes spring through November.

 

Then my landlord says that she wants the backyard -- that is full of shady trees and backs up to a creek to have a nice lawn. We have pictures of when we first moved in that show minimal -- I mean, minimal -- lawn. And she's saying: 

 

We kept grass growing and kept it cleaned and mowed. Go to Zillow to see how it looked when you moved in. That is how we would like it kept. We had mulch in the big area behind the deck and over on the left all along the fence area.  We really don't want the backyard to get messy looking. Maybe in the spring when you hire the lawn service you can have them clean it up, aerate it and put seed down. When we first seeded every fall, we would have to walk the dogs a couple times a day for their exercise no running till the grass seed took hold.

 

I mean, I'm not kidding. We have pictures. And dh told me that her dh said that they had to seed lawn every year or it wouldn't grow. It's so shady.

 

I'm irritated. I feel like no matter how hard I try she's acting like we're not doing enough. And to make it worse for me: my parents were just like this so I get defensive.

 

I don't want to totally tick her off because I'd like to continue renting, but my gut says that she's going to let us go when the lease is up and attempt to sell again. Fine w/ me, but sad for the kids.

 

What does the hive think?

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

 

[Alicia64]

my mistake.

 

[zoobie]

She's nuts.

[Alicia64]

She's nuts.

 

I love you.

 

Alley

[Aelwydd]

I think your landlord is really pushing it, but I don't know how I would tell her that, since she seems to view the lease as a favor to you.

 

Any chance you could line up financing to just buy it when your lease is up?

[Alicia64]

I think your landlord is really pushing it, but I don't know how I would tell her that, since she seems to view the lease as a favor to you.

 

Any chance you could line up financing to just buy it when your lease is up?

 

You know, we can afford to buy the house, but dh believes that financially it's smarter these days to rent than to buy (Kahn Academy too).

 

Also, we came really close to having to move for a new job in Sept. and that really drove the point home -- that renting makes life easier in certain ways.

 

But, you have it right: the landlord apparently thinks she did me a favor.

 

Bleh.

 

Alley

[Lara in Colo]

You cannot control the actions of others, no matter how hard you try to be/do what they want, they can surprise you.

Do the best you can, do as much/more than "normal expectations" and take pictures to protect yourself.

[Hikin' Mama]

I don't see how it would be your responsibility to seed a lawn in a rental. That should be the owner's responsibility.

[OrganicAnn]

Don't you need different grass for shady areas?   I know some people even grow moss as a ground cover in shady damp areas.  

 

Maybe she could do some shady planting around the trees so that there wouldn't be such a need for grass.  

[Aelwydd]

You know, we can afford to buy the house, but dh believes that financially it's smarter these days to rent than to buy (Kahn Academy too).

 

Also, we came really close to having to move for a new job in Sept. and that really drove the point home -- that renting makes life easier in certain ways.

 

You know, I totally understand that and frankly agree with you and your dh. We choose to rent for the same reasons. Some of my coworkers can't believe we'd opt to pay more than $1500/mo for rent, when we could easily get a mortgage for hundreds less.

 

However, we are very busy. We don't have the time nor inclination to maintain a house, mow a lawn, and so forth. We love our apartment. Something breaks, or leaks happen? Call maintenance.

 

We have all the amenities as well, plus an attached garage. We save money that would be spent on repairs or property taxes for retirement. We may buy someday. We may not. But, if we need to move for a job or some other reason, we are not hindered by a house.

 

That's one reason I'm grateful for folks that are willing to be landlords and for property management companies. Yeah, some are bad, but mostly I've had good experiences. Them doing their thing means we can do our thing. :)

 

Not to derail your thread-just wanted to say I get why buying isn't necessarily a solution in your case.

[Tap]

Do you have a reason to not seed? It sounds like she had dogs, but do you?  It doesn't need to be aerated, just toss out some shady area seed  evenly with a spray spreader.  Check youtube for instructions and do it yourself. It will cost you about $50 unless it is a large area for a decent quality seed.  I wouldn't baby it too much except for the week or so when it first sprouts.  It won't look the best if you don't baby it but it will offer some cover.  If you have seed left over, just keep tossing some on the bald spots over the summer and let it go. 

 

 

[jewellsmommy]

What does your lease obligate you to do? If seeding the back is part of the lease then you are stuck. If it is not then I would either not do it (since you think she may not renew you anyway) or you could offer to tack the service for the back yard on to the list for the company that you have doing lawn service for you. Then tell her that you will get the price quote for her to see if she wants to still do it. You can tell her that you can deduct it from the rent if she would like. If she is not willing to pay for it, then the matter can drop.

[kiwik]

Mowing the lawn, keeping the garden tidy and leaving it no worse than you moved in is your job. Resowing is the landlords job.

[QueenCat]

What does the lease say?

[mytwomonkeys]

I would tell her exactly what you shared here with pictures attached. I think as a tenant you should keep the yard mowed, trimmed, and clean of all debris. I do not think it is your responsibility to hire a lawn company and seed the yard unless that was agreed upon previously. Just my opinion. Sorry this is happening to you!

[Alicia64]

I would tell her exactly what you shared here with pictures attached. I think as a tenant you should keep the yard mowed, trimmed, and clean of all debris. I do not think it is your responsibility to hire a lawn company and seed the yard unless that was agreed upon previously. Just my opinion. Sorry this is happening to you!

 

Thanks everyone! I'm looking for the lease. It was very, very basic. Not a teeny tiny word contract type thing at all. The main worry they had was that we'd burn down the place and we, of course, have renters insurance.

 

The second big thing was that we could have our one dog: not more. Which I'm more than fine with.

 

I'll find the thing, but I don't remember anything being in it about the yard. I'm having a yard company out twice a month because dh just doesn't mow/blow/trim in any kind of a timely manner. So I don't blame her there. It's our fault for taking on so much yard.

 

If we end up moving we're definitely getting less land.

 

But, yeah, aerate and seed?! We're from CA where people aerate and seed maybe once every ten years -- if they're picky. So that our neighbors here on the East Coast aerate and seed every fall is amazing (only the neighbors who really, really care do this. Unfortunately she's one of them).

 

I'm having a down day and thinking: why don't I ever run into the nice people of the world??

 

Alley

[zoobie]

If lawn maintenance isn't included in the lease, you may not be responsible even for that. Depends on what the default is for your state. Here it's the landlord's responsibility unless the lease states otherwise.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't know at seed stores a small amount of grass seed is very cheap. I would just get two or three pounds and toss some down in the fall.

 

I would maybe consider testing the soil's PH but I would not aerate every year.

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe you could just get some of these shoes and stick them on the kid's feet after giving them a gallon of kool-aid? That is aerating right?

 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_12800_12800?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Grounds%20Maintenance-_-Aerators%20%2B%20Lawn%20Rollers-_-14264&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=14264&gclid=CPm_-vCg6LsCFTJo7AodOkMApQ

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Happy]

Seeding the lawn seems different to me than maintaining the lawn. If you are responsible for the bareness, then I guess seeding is expected. Water lightly and often for the first three weeks or so.

 

However, if you aren't responsible for the bare spots--the shady trees are--then nope, no reseeding. It would be like the landlord expecting you to repaint while you lived there.

[Alicia64]

Seeding the lawn seems different to me than maintaining the lawn. If you are responsible for the bareness, then I guess seeding is expected. Water lightly and often for the first three weeks or so.

 

However, if you aren't responsible for the bare spots--the shady trees are--then nope, no reseeding. It would be like the landlord expecting you to repaint while you lived there.

 

I think it's a lot of the shade and some of me leaving leaves on the ground. So -- to be ethical -- I'm happy to reseed the front yard. The back yard is the same problem -- tons of shade, but we also left the leaves on the ground. I just didn't like the landlord's attitude of, "we expect it to look like A, B and C."

 

Well, I have pictures of the backyard when we took possession in the fall '12 and there are just little tufts of grass here and there. There is certainly no "lawn." Thank goodness I have the pictures.

 

I think in the spring there is some lawn if it's been carefully tended, but I guess these people reseed every fall. (If they care enough about their lawn to do it).

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm easy to push around, but I don't want to take money away from my kids to satisfy this woman at the same time.

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

Gosh, and you should put in a gazebo, some fancy landscaping and maybe a deck??? How about a pool? Tenants are responsible for leaving the place as they found it, not doing the landlord's job. And I speak as a landlord.

 

This hilarious -- thank you so much Margaret. I'll keep this in my heart because I'm feeling very pushed around.

 

Here's the confusion I'm having -- and I'd love a landlord's thoughts -- the 1/2 acre has many, many trees that dumped a bazillion leaves in the fall. I'm not kidding. We probably bagged up fifty + 45-gallon bags to be hauled away. And we still didn't finish.

 

The landlord is saying that by not getting all the leaves up. . . that we caused the lawn to die. DH is adamant that the lawn dies every year leaves or not. I think he's right. The landlord's husband told him that when we first moved in.

 

Thankfully I have pictures of us moving in in Sept. '12 showing the backyard w/ just tufts of grass -- not a lawn. I know in the spring it can look nice if you take really good care of it, but come Sept. it's tuft-city. (And I have the pics.)

 

I'd love your thoughts. We're not in a shouting match at all. I'm super polite. So far everything is very calm.

 

Thanks!

 

Alley

[Catwoman]

I think, at best, your landlord is trying to take advantage of your good nature -- and at worst, she's trying to pull a fast one and get you to spend your time, money, and effort on work that she and her husband should be doing themselves.

 

Check your lease and see what you're required to do.

[Lara in Colo]

I don't know where you live but here, the grass dies every winter.  If I leave the leaves on it, then it has a hard time growing IN THE SPRING, but no difference over the winter.   Check the lease, what does it say about lawn maint.

[bolt.]

"Me in your shoes" reply:

 

Would you like me to ask the service company about a quote to do that service for you? Or I can send you their contact info. I'm not sure if it really matters if you use the same service company as us. If you re-seed the lawn, I can certainly keep our dog from running there for a few weeks afterwards -- no problem.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

You know, we can afford to buy the house, but dh believes that financially it's smarter these days to rent than to buy (Kahn Academy too).

 

Also, we came really close to having to move for a new job in Sept. and that really drove the point home -- that renting makes life easier in certain ways.

 

But, you have it right: the landlord apparently thinks she did me a favor.

 

Bleh.

 

Alley

I think renting or buying depends on where you live and the likely length of time you plan to spend there. Where we live it made sense to buy because of the fantastic job opportunities here and the mortgage in our case if half of what it would be to rent. We also plan on staying longer than 5 years.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I would also be concerned that they seem like they are getting ready to sell. Otherwise why get bent out of shape over a yard?

[Alicia64]

I would also be concerned that they seem like they are getting ready to sell. Otherwise why get bent out of shape over a yard?

 

I completely agree w/ you. DH wants to think it's a big "?" but I think the writing is on the wall.

 

Btw, I agree w/ you about buying. If we knew for sure, for sure, for sure that DH's job was stable we'd buy too. But a relatively stable job that he'd had for three years became wobbly last summer. He almost took a new job in another state.

 

His new job -- we didn't move -- appears very stable too, but he keeps saying if so-and-so retires and the new boss brings in their own people. . . well, we might be looking for a job again.

 

So, that's that.

 

But, yes, I think she's getting ready to put her house on the market and wants us to spiffy up the yard. I don't mind at all doing my duty -- what a good renter should do -- but I'm not "curb appealing" the house. I'm not sure how to say that without being really rude and combative.

 

Alley

[Mommyof4ks]

I agree it sounds like she is using you to make the house look nice to sell.

 

I do not know what the housing proves are near year, but we own a 2100 sq ft house with payment half of your rent. If you stayed in it one year you save $12,000 or maybe lose that much (if you sell and lose then you are out, but you could make some and come out ahead) without the hassle of dealing with this landlord.

[Anne in CA]

I would very nicely tell her that you have pics from when you moved in and that you will not be reseeding unless she signs a new lease for more time. It sounds to me like she wants you to get it ready for her to sell. Selling is her right, but not making you make it look better than when you moved in.

[RanchGirl]

Do you have to reply to that email?  Is it possible to just ignore it and if it is brought up again, say "oh I thought you were joking as we never agreed to that"?

[StephanieZ]

Thanks everyone! I'm looking for the lease. It was very, very basic. Not a teeny tiny word contract type thing at all. The main worry they had was that we'd burn down the place and we, of course, have renters insurance.

 

The second big thing was that we could have our one dog: not more. Which I'm more than fine with.

 

I'll find the thing, but I don't remember anything being in it about the yard. I'm having a yard company out twice a month because dh just doesn't mow/blow/trim in any kind of a timely manner. So I don't blame her there. It's our fault for taking on so much yard.

 

If we end up moving we're definitely getting less land.

 

But, yeah, aerate and seed?! We're from CA where people aerate and seed maybe once every ten years -- if they're picky. So that our neighbors here on the East Coast aerate and seed every fall is amazing (only the neighbors who really, really care do this. Unfortunately she's one of them).

 

I'm having a down day and thinking: why don't I ever run into the nice people of the world??

 

Alley

 

FWIW, renters insurance doesn't, so far as I know, cover losses to the property of the landlord. It just covers YOUR stuff. The landlord has to have a regular home owners policy, but it has to be set up as a rental, not owner-occupied. That HO insurance is quite a bit more expensive than regular owner-occupied HO insurance even though it covers LESS stuff (since the rental policy doesn't cover the renter's stuff --- that is why you have to have your own renter's insurance.) 

 

FWIW, my advice is that if you want to keep renting, do what she's asked you to do if it is financially within reason. These things are simple, really . . . if either of you make eachother miserable enough to end the agreement, then you will no longer have the option to rent. So, if you want to keep renting, keep playing nice. She tried for a long time to sell . . . She would probably LOVE nothing better than to sell it while you are still renting, but that would require your cooperation showing the place. If you'd be willing to do that, then definitely play very nice with the maintenance issues, as that is the big problem with renting a home while trying to sell it -- the renters don't cooperate with the sales effort.

 

We've rented two homes out in our lives. One was a situation like you describe, our prior residence that we couldn't sell, and it was absolutely one of the most stressful situations of our lives. It was awful! The renters were not bad, didn't trash the place, but did NOT make significant effort to cooperate with our need to sell, so it was very stressful to us and awe felt very vulnerable to the renters. Even though it was a huge financial strain, we were relieved when they broke the lease early (which we didn't feel safe to fight them on in fear they'd trash the house) and moved out. We then had it empty 6 months to sell it, but that was better than always worrying about what the renters were doing. 

 

The second rental property is our current one. It is a home we own by accident, but we won't sell it due to its proximity to our business. So, the rental income is "free money" and we don't really need it in any significant way. We rent only to people we like and know (so far just to employees of our business), we charge under market rent, and we generally collect just enough to comfortably cover upkeep on the property as well as maybe a spare thousand or two each year so we don't feel stupid not just tearing the place down. :) 

 

If I were a renter, I can tell you which property would be better maintained (#1, probably) but which would be less hassle to live in (#2). This is because our objective for #2 is just to keep it safe, sanitary, and adequate for a nice family rental, and we don't need the $ from the rent in particular, nor do we stress about damage, etc. We still treat it like a business, and we'd evict anyone who didn't pay their rent or was otherwise a bad tenant, but it is *just* a small part of our overall business portfolio, and we aren't going to freak out no matter what happens. In contrast, rental #1 was a make-it-or-break-it aspect of our financial picture. If the renters quit paying rent, we had to scramble for the mortgage. If they trashed the place, we'd have been financially devastated, as that house was a huge part of our net worth at that time.

 

My point is that if you want a low-hassles rental, look for one that is simply a minor business for the owner, not a huge part of their financial net worth as would typically be the case with a house that was their most recent prior residence.

[Alicia64]

FWIW, renters insurance doesn't, so far as I know, cover losses to the property of the landlord. It just covers YOUR stuff. The landlord has to have a regular home owners policy, but it has to be set up as a rental, not owner-occupied. That HO insurance is quite a bit more expensive than regular owner-occupied HO insurance even though it covers LESS stuff (since the rental policy doesn't cover the renter's stuff --- that is why you have to have your own renter's insurance.) 

 

FWIW, my advice is that if you want to keep renting, do what she's asked you to do if it is financially within reason. These things are simple, really . . . if either of you make eachother miserable enough to end the agreement, then you will no longer have the option to rent. So, if you want to keep renting, keep playing nice. She tried for a long time to sell . . . She would probably LOVE nothing better than to sell it while you are still renting, but that would require your cooperation showing the place. If you'd be willing to do that, then definitely play very nice with the maintenance issues, as that is the big problem with renting a home while trying to sell it -- the renters don't cooperate with the sales effort.

 

We've rented two homes out in our lives. One was a situation like you describe, our prior residence that we couldn't sell, and it was absolutely one of the most stressful situations of our lives. It was awful! The renters were not bad, didn't trash the place, but did NOT make significant effort to cooperate with our need to sell, so it was very stressful to us and awe felt very vulnerable to the renters. Even though it was a huge financial strain, we were relieved when they broke the lease early (which we didn't feel safe to fight them on in fear they'd trash the house) and moved out. We then had it empty 6 months to sell it, but that was better than always worrying about what the renters were doing. 

 

The second rental property is our current one. It is a home we own by accident, but we won't sell it due to its proximity to our business. So, the rental income is "free money" and we don't really need it in any significant way. We rent only to people we like and know (so far just to employees of our business), we charge under market rent, and we generally collect just enough to comfortably cover upkeep on the property as well as maybe a spare thousand or two each year so we don't feel stupid not just tearing the place down. :)

 

If I were a renter, I can tell you which property would be better maintained (#1, probably) but which would be less hassle to live in (#2). This is because our objective for #2 is just to keep it safe, sanitary, and adequate for a nice family rental, and we don't need the $ from the rent in particular, nor do we stress about damage, etc. We still treat it like a business, and we'd evict anyone who didn't pay their rent or was otherwise a bad tenant, but it is *just* a small part of our overall business portfolio, and we aren't going to freak out no matter what happens. In contrast, rental #1 was a make-it-or-break-it aspect of our financial picture. If the renters quit paying rent, we had to scramble for the mortgage. If they trashed the place, we'd have been financially devastated, as that house was a huge part of our net worth at that time.

 

My point is that if you want a low-hassles rental, look for one that is simply a minor business for the owner, not a huge part of their financial net worth as would typically be the case with a house that was their most recent prior residence.

 

We do want to keep renting and  I am trying to comply, but I think she has an idea that the housing market has turned around. She once accidentally let "my Realtor" slip so i assume she wants to sell.

 

We would never trash a property -- under any circumstances. You felt vulnerable to your renters, but I feel vulnerable to this woman. She acts very entitled to demand that we aerrate and reseed and I'm starting to realize that she's going overboard. I will reseed when it warms up. I am paying a lawn company to mow/blow/trim. But other than that I'm going to remain polite and return the house how we found it.

 

And, this has been a huge lesson to us to find a rental that is a minor business vs. someone's "baby." I'm living that lesson!

 

Alley

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

we rent by choice.  My last rental only required the lawn mowed and when we moved out new mulch in the beds.  We did more than required for that lawn.  

 

My current rental has an owner that thinks she can grow grass under the trees.  And has spent 15 years on serious lawn costs to do so.  When they cancelled the lawn service and expected us to do it we weren't happy at all but we hadn't been here long and didn't want to move again.  

 

They seeded and we agreed to water longer than normal this year.  costs me water.  

 

We have kept the leaves off the new grass. No easy feat!  Had to buy a commercial blower and it still takes 5 hours.  Costs me money for equipment we wouldn't have normally bought.  

 

She's hinted about me picking up the pruning for the landscaping but I politely declined.  I expect her to ask again come spring. 

 

Check your lease but unless it's spelled out exactly what they want don't feel pressured to do above and beyond.  In fact when we lost the yard service I wanted it in writing what they wanted from us yard wise.  I was told I was being a pain in the butt.  However, these people are so picky I wanted details so they won't say we ruined the yard.  The moles are doing that on their own.   And I finally got it in writing we mow the lawn and keep leaves off.  We do not trim anything nor do we edge anything.  The owners are coming every few months to do the other stuff.  I wonder if they will keep it as a rental for long since they can't find anyone to do the yard service for them at the level they want.  And it's not fair to ask renters.  

 

We would have gladly done more to the yard on our own....but being told to keep it to a high standard with no financial offer(like buying the blower or paying for sprinklers past our normal agreement) made us realize they would take advantage of us if we ever agreed to help.  So we fought them on the yard stuff since it changed the lease.  It's in writing now and we don't do anything extra.  Their loss.  By being such a pain about it, we have had to hold back what we would have done just to be sure we don't end up being expected to do it. 

 

it's not your job to seed the lawn.  pretty sure your lease will say to maintain the lawn.  hopefully you took photos when moving in.  (always do this!) and make it be the same when you leave. 

 

I told my husband I would rather pay for sod when we move out than do the leaves in this yard!!!!  but since my owners come regularly from hours away to check on things we have to keep it up.  None of the neighbors have grass.  They are crazy to think they can get it to grow.

[Mary in VA]

Whatever you decide to do about the lawn now, keep those pictures of the lawn from when you moved in in a safe place.  Print them out if they are on your computer.  Because if the lawn doesn't look like your landlady thinks it should look, she may try to withhold your deposit.  If you have any other pictures of the house from when you moved in, do the same with those.  

 

Mary

[Starr]

She's emotionally attached to the house. Follow your lease and look for something else to rent if you don't want to deal with her, forever.  :grouphug: