Holy Envy

[Amira]

I love many things about my church, but I do feel holy envy sometimes for other religions. Do you?

 

Tonight we went to an Advent service at an Anglican church nearby. I love Advent, but since my church doesn't follow a liturgical calendar, it doesn't do anything specifically for Advent (I'm a Mormon). My family always celebrates it quietly at home, which is nice, but not the same. I have the same feeling during Holy Week. So it was lovely to be invited to attend an Advent service with some friends of ours tonight.

 

Whenever I go into a beautiful cathedral or mosque, I wish I had a place like that to worship in weekly (or more often). When I'm living abroad, I always want to stop people on the street to make sure they know how lucky they are to have a centuries-old mosque in their backyard or a soaring cathedral down the street. I love how those old and grand buildings of worship represent so many things I admire.

 

I love hearing the call to prayer five times a day when I'm living in a Muslim country. We lived in one house in Kyrgyzstan where I could hear it from a couple of mosques, and even though one of the sopis (muezzins) really didn't sound too great when he chanted the call to prayer, I still loved it every single time.

 

There are so many more things I could say, but these are three things I'm envying right now.

[DianeW88]

I'm LDS and we celebrate Advent.  There's no prohibition against it.  It's just left up to individual families.  I even have an LDS book for doing a devotional type of activity each day during Advent.  This isn't the one I use, but I'm going to check it out.  Oh, and it's free. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/free-mormon-advent-calendar-aims-to-focus-christmas-on-christ/article_95d466d1-bd38-55e4-8359-d8b1caca583d.html

[J-rap]

We attend a church that tries to steer away from rules and dogma that can really weigh down a church and emphasize the wrong things.  Which of course is a good thing!  But, I do miss the old hymns, the advent traditions, lenten observances (including Ash Wednesday) and more.  Sometimes those "traditions" serve a good purpose.  They can help focus on the holiness and even mystery of Christianity, and also help you stay within the faith even when you don't feel like it.

[maize]

I know what you mean , especially when it comes to deep rooted traditions and lovely historic buildings.

[Amira]

I'm LDS and we celebrate Advent. There's no prohibition against it. It's just left up to individual families. I even have an LDS book for doing a devotional type of activity each day during Advent. This isn't the one I use, but I'm going to check it out. Oh, and it's free. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/free-mormon-advent-calendar-aims-to-focus-christmas-on-christ/article_95d466d1-bd38-55e4-8359-d8b1caca583d.html

We've celebrated Advent at home for years. Like I said in my original post, Advent and Holy Week are not the same just celebrating with family. I'd love to celebrate Advent and Holy Week with my own faith community.

 

This wasn't meant to bash my church. I just see things in many faith traditions that I admire.

[Jackie]

I am not religious at all, but was raised Catholic. There are so many beautiful Catholic Churches and the Christmas midnight mass was the one service I looked forward to. I'm tempted every year to attend midnight mass for the beauty, ceremony, and music, but never do.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I am agnostic, and I envy those with faith.

[marbel]

I understand this.  I sometimes miss those traditions or rituals.  Our church has very "plain" worship (for lack of a better term) and I do miss some of the rituals I grew up with.  But, I also love my church and I appreciate the reasons why those things are not a part of worship.   So, yeah, I get you.

[milovany]

I get it.  Sometimes you want to both celebrate and struggle through (depending on situation) with those in your faith family.  It makes the celebrations sweeter and the struggles more doable.  And it creates a faith that's all the stronger.  That's how it's been for us, anyway.  In fact, our faith tradition (Eastern Orthodox) is kinda known for doing everything together (celebrating the same feasts, same saints, etc. on the same day; having the same services for liturgy, baptisms, funerals, etc. wherever you go*), and there have been some things lately in our parish that are a teensy bit different and it's really been hard for me.  I spent time crying about it today.  When you get used to that unity, any kind of thing that subtracts from it can be difficult. 

 

*Of course there can be minor wording, order, cultural variations.  I'm speaking generally, overall. 

[NASDAQ]

We're not allowed to attend other services.

 

I like Anglican music.

[J-rap]

I wanted to add that I love the Muslim call to prayer too, and how it just reverberates throughout the town wherever you are.  My husband and I spent time living in Jordan and then Egypt years ago, and it never failed to give me tingles every time I heard it.

[PrincessMommy]

No, not anymore.  I'm pretty satisfied where I'm at.    I used to have a longing for something deeper and more rooted, but I don't think that's what the OP is talking about.

 

I am someone who loves/admires old churches though.  I'd love to do a tour of old-town church architecture someday.   When we drive out west we can see this church from the highway.

 

as you can see there's more than one.  It's just a small town in Western MD too... nothing big like Baltimore or NY... but it has several lovely looking church buildings.

 

But, I don't really envy them -  I have no desire to go to a service there.  It would probably annoy me anyway (shhh.. I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to church services :leaving: )

[Heather in Neverland]

We're not allowed to attend other services.

 

.

Really? I was not aware that any denominations actually banned their people from attending another service. I have been a Protestant Christian my whole life but I have attended Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim places of worship and more. I did not participate in any of the worship. I was just a polite observer. You really aren't allowed? At all? Not even just to observe?

[Heather in Neverland]

To the OP, Yes I totally understand. While I do not agree with most of Catholic theology, I do admire the beauty of their services and their churches. I would love a high-church, liturgical service but with reformed theology. :)

[HRAAB]

I am agnostic, and I envy those with faith.

 

Sometimes I feel this way, too, but when I was immersed in church/religion, I envied those that could walk away.  No pleasing me.

 

If I ever return to a faith life, it will be the church I was raised in, Catholic, in part because it is a liturgical church.  The seasons, celebrations are beautiful and add a type of comfortable structure to your faith life, imo only.  :001_smile:

[gardenmom5]

No, I haven't.   I've been to services of other denominations, and I've never felt like I was missing out on anything.

[albeto.]

No, I haven't.   I've been to services of other denominations, and I've never felt like I was missing out on anything.

This was my experience. Because religious services reflect a particular theology, the services dedicated to another theology were not "special" the way my church services were. I recall one time attending a protestant service and feeling like we'd been let out early - before the Main Event (communion, lol). 

 

I don't miss any of it now, even though at one time I was very deeply and genuinely drawn to it.

[maize]

Really? I was not aware that any denominations actually banned their people from attending another service. I have been a Protestant Christian my whole life but I have attended Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim places of worship and more. I did not participate in any of the worship. I was just a polite observer. You really aren't allowed? At all? Not even just to observe?

I think JW's may have this restriction, don't know about other denominations. I like attending different services when I get the chance, I enjoy learning how other people worship.

[MFG]

This was my experience. Because religious services reflect a particular theology, the services dedicated to another theology were not "special" the way my church services were. I recall one time attending a protestant service and feeling like we'd been let out early - before the Main Event (communion, lol).

 

I think this is an important point. All religious traditions do things certain ways because of deeper, underlying belief. Just because an adherent of that tradition has not been taught the reasons does not mean they are not there. I think people with convertitis would be better served studying their own faith traditions so they truly and accurately know what they are rejecting before they take off after the next shiny thing to come along.

[milovany]

 I think people with convertitis would be better served studying their own faith traditions so they truly and accurately know what they are rejecting before they take off after the next shiny thing to come along.

 

The vast majority of the "faith traditions" that we were a part of being converting to as-high-church-as-it-gets had NO traditions whatsoever. They even somewhat prided themselves on this fact ("God is doing a new thing!").  Not saying that to contradict you, but just to say that there are situations out there where there are no roots/traditions to speak of. 

[maize]

I think this is an important point. All religious traditions do things certain ways because of deeper, underlying belief. Just because an adherent of that tradition has not been taught the reasons does not mean they are not there. I think people with convertitis would be better served studying their own faith traditions so they truly and accurately know what they are rejecting before they take off after the next shiny thing to come along.

I don't think this thread is about wanting to convert, but rather about appreciating what is beautiful in other religions.

[MFG]

The vast majority of the "faith traditions" that we were a part of being converting to as-high-church-as-it-gets had NO traditions whatsoever. They even somewhat prided themselves on this fact ("God is doing a new thing!"). Not saying that to contradict you, but just to say that there are situations out there where there are no roots/traditions to speak of.

Everything has roots. Even those who deny roots. Ideas come from somewhere.

 

Eta: Maybe I should put this in the Unpopular Opinions thread?

[Incognito]

The vast majority of the "faith traditions" that we were a part of being converting to as-high-church-as-it-gets had NO traditions whatsoever. They even somewhat prided themselves on this fact ("God is doing a new thing!").  Not saying that to contradict you, but just to say that there are situations out there where there are no roots/traditions to speak of. 

 

I would say that in even those churches, there is a history behind why the emphasis is on a "new thing".  Sometimes it is easy to see the historical connections, sometimes it takes reflecting on local cultural issues in addition to the religious group's history to see it.

[Incognito]

And about the "holy envy" - I understand and agree with the experience.  For instance, there is something admirable in the tradition of no instruments in church (and contrastingly something beautiful in churches that continue the traditions of organ music).

[milovany]

Everything has roots. Even those who deny roots. Ideas come from somewhere.

 

I would say that in even those churches, there is a history behind why the emphasis is on a "new thing".  Sometimes it is easy to see the historical connections, sometimes it takes reflecting on local cultural issues in addition to the religious group's history to see it.

 

If it's there, it's very difficult to find and no one one is encouraged to find it.  That was our experience at least -- esp. in the context of this thread (traditions, liturgy, buildings, etc.) They might have had their reasons for doing things the way they did, but those reasons didn't seem to be based on any kind of no historical meaning or tradition beyond "we believe the Bible" and "we believe in Christ" [according to our interpretation].  I do get what you're saying, though, and yes, ideas come from somewhere.  But never in my Christianity before five years ago had I given any thought to historical or traditional things, nor been encouraged to do so.  There was no need to -- "God was living in the now and that's all we need!"  

[MFG]

If it's there, it's very difficult to find and no one one is encouraged to find it. That was our experience at least -- esp. in the context of this thread (traditions, liturgy, buildings, etc.) They might have had their reasons for doing things the way they did, but those reasons didn't seem to be based on any kind of no historical meaning or tradition beyond "we believe the Bible" and "we believe in Christ" [according to our interpretation]. I do get what you're saying, though, and yes, ideas come from somewhere. But never in my Christianity before five years ago had I given any thought to historical or traditional things, nor been encouraged to do so. There was no need to -- "God was living in the now and that's all we need!"

And I do think that is unfortunate. An understanding of ones history is important. For a Christian (as that is the context of the op) a basic overview of Church history helps one appreciate not only ones own current experience, but also to appreciate other strains and expressions. I imagine that would also be true of other religions. Getting back to the op, understanding the meaning of symbols and practices can add to the appreciation of them, and one may even find that ones own group expresses the same ideas, just in different ways. The study of others can cause us to appreciate our own group more, without denigrating the other.

 

In simpler terms, coming to see the good and beautiful in others can also help us to see it more in ourselves. There's no place like home.

[shawthorne44]

I am totally and completely happy with my denomination, Anglican.  I am a bit envious, though, of the higher way it used to be.  I like sing-song, big pipe organs and Bach hymns song by a fat lady.  The incense makes me green/sick so I am happy that is gone.  None of that means anything.  But I do miss it.  I get particularly grumpy about songs younger than me.  

 

[Upward Journey]

I am totally and completely happy with my denomination, Anglican. I am a bit envious, though, of the higher way it used to be. I like sing-song, big pipe organs and Bach hymns song by a fat lady. The incense makes me green/sick so I am happy that is gone. None of that means anything. But I do miss it. I get particularly grumpy about songs younger than me.

Me, too. I absolutely love my Anglican parish. When I want really high church I visit the Anglican Cathedral in the parish next to ours :)

[Sara in AZ]

I'm LDS and we celebrate Advent. There's no prohibition against it. It's just left up to individual families. I even have an LDS book for doing a devotional type of activity each day during Advent. This isn't the one I use, but I'm going to check it out. Oh, and it's free. http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/free-mormon-advent-calendar-aims-to-focus-christmas-on-christ/article_95d466d1-bd38-55e4-8359-d8b1caca583d.html

Thanks for the link, Diane. Just printed it off this morning.

 

Amira, I get what you're saying. We're LDS, as well. There was one summer when we were invited to a slew of big Catholic weddings in really cool churches. DH had some Holy Wedding Envy after that.

[idnib]

I'm Muslim and I love Gospel music and Christmas trees so much. Does that count?  :)