Classical Conversations vs. a co-op?

[amselby81]

We are in our 3rd year of CC and I am just not loving it. Honestly, I think the price makes me a bit bitter toward it. We stuck with it so we could complete all 3 cycles. I really want to try something else next year. There is a co-op in our area. The classes they offer all depends each year on who volunteers to teach and what they choose to teach. But they might have art asses, science classes, lapbooking classes etc. The cost for the co-op is a out $30 per class plus any books needed. im sure the $30 helps cover the cost of supplies for the year. I know it's not consistent, since each year the classes are different. But I feel like it would be more like electives for us. We're using MFW as our main curriculum this year. I tried to make CC our core and failed miserably at it. So this year I thought I'd try MFW and we really like it.

 

Anyone who has done both CC and a co-op, how would you compare them? Would you say one is better than the other? I just want to try something new since we've been doing CC since DD was in pre-k. Maybe I'll find that we miss CC and we come back after a year? But how will I know unless I venture out to something else?

[2_girls_mommy]

Disclaimer, I have never done CC.  But I have seriously considered it and have friends and acquaintances that have done it or that do it now and have loved/do love it.

 

I have been in a co-op for 4 yrs.  I have always been happy to take advantage of what was offered there, plus teach what I want to that my girls like doing in a group. I have learned that over the years, to teach only what I would be doing at home anyway, but that which works better or is more fun in a group.  I like having the accountability of teaching a co-op class, honestly.  If I commit to teaching a preschool class, then I am going to put my all into a fun lesson and craft with games for the kiddos each week. 

 

I have chosen to do the classical part of my homeschooling at home for the most part, using co-op to supplement and enrich.  As my older child has gotten older (upper elem/middle school) some of the classes available have been her whole curric for the subject, but I get to make that decision.  We are in our 2nd co-op now.  We did one for 4 yrs, and now we joined a different one this year, but I still like it. 

If I couldn't find a co-op that I liked one year and we were seriously short on outside activities club,  would be the only way I would shell out the high price for CC prior to high school.  I like the WTM rotations and curricula suggestions better for now.  I like what I use, so I just make sure we do our memory work at home, using WTM as a guide.  We may have done a bit more of memory work had we done CC, but I am happy with what we have done.  I have also been happier that we have done R&S English and more latin and more history using SOTW than they do in the early years.  So it is a balance I am ok with.

 

Anyway, good luck in your decision.  I hope you will be as happy w/co-op as we have been if you go that route.

[Another Lynn]

We left CC several years ago to try a local co-op.  I also hoped it would provide electives for us and allow us to spend the rest of the week on our chosen curriculum.  We were so thankful to come back to CC.  The co-op was very disappointing.  There was such a wide variety of behaviors and behavioral policies were inconsistently enforced.  There was no encouragement to achieve a standard of excellence.  There was a strange attitude in the mom's group about not discussing curriculum choices openly.  I could go on (they took the fun out of dysfunctional?), but that's all I want to say publicly.  I guess one lesson I learned was, "you get what you pay for."  We are so glad to be back in CC.  I used to bemoan spending the money; now I count it money well spent.  There's no ambiguity or decisions made on personal whims.  I know what I'm paying for and I know what the kids are receiving each week.   CC is our community, our family.  Our friends are there.  We still do what we want at home, but we try to keep memory review going (slow and steady).  It helps us keep moving forward when feelings of burn out encroach.  Essentials has given us accountability to complete writing assignments I'm not sure we would have stuck with on our own.  

 

It's not the end of the world to venture out and try something else.  I did, and it just helped me appreciate CC so much more.   

[G5052]

We did both when mine were young. One year we did a fun co-op like you describe every other week with CC.  The fun co-op had classes, science, geography, etc. The teachers varied though. Some were very prepared and some were...NOT.  The same co-op went to individual paid classes the following year, and the quality was very good and worthwhile.  We continued to do both.  Then we formed had a history co-op with three other families that met monthly for presentations, crafts, etc., and continued with CC.  We dropped the individual classes and did just the history group and CC.  By then I had one in Essentials, so time was tighter.

 

Overall, it was all good though.  I wouldn't do a fun co-op again unless I knew that the individual teachers where taking it seriously.  Some of the teachers literally put their classes together when they got there and were extremely disorganized.  If they church copy machine was down (not uncommon), they had the kids watch a DVD that they grabbed from the church library.  The small family co-op was excellent, as was our overall experience in CC for Foundations/Essentials.

 

In general, we found CC to be the most "together" of what we did in those years.  We never did Memory Master, and I used Sonlight without trying to match up the weeks, and I still think that CC was a "must have" in those years.

[Lori D.]

Depends on what you want:

 

Classical Conversations is much more formal/structured and academically-based, with work that must be done at home. The pro is that the academics are usually of a high caliber, so it takes the place of needing to cover that at home. The cons are that having to do the support work at home can cut into personal goals for your homeschooling, and you have no input about what materials are used, and it is "all or nothing" (no picking individual subjects).

 

Co-ops vary *WIDELY*, but generally they tend to be much less formal in structure, and more exposure-based or enrichment-based rather than academic. The pros are that it can offer a wide variety of subjects (depending on who is offering a class), usually do not take away any at-home learning time with homework or follow-up work, and often are pretty inexpensive. The cons are that most of the time, the classes are not enough to substitute for doing it at home, and will vary widely in class discipline and teacher ability, since it's usually other moms volunteering to lead a class.

 

 

Another option: make your "mini co-op". Since you're using and liking MFW, what about asking around and finding 4-6 other like-minded families and get together once a week or every other week to do activities in support of what you're studying, or just to have the fun of a co-op? You could pass the responsibility around each time, which means even if you met weekly, and only had 4 families, you would only have to be responsible once a month for heading an activity.

 

The elementary ages were ideal for us to be in a mini-co-op group that met weekly. We were with about 6-8 other families, and usually someone had to miss, so it was usually a total of 5-6 families doing the event of that week:

 

week 1 = field trip or invite in a special speaker

week 2 = presentations

week 3 = park day

week 4 = activity (art, science, etc. -- with once each semester being a big group effort for a Medieval Festival, or Thanksgiving Feast, or Japanese Day, etc.)

 

We planned the year out in advance, and we each headed up a total of 3-4 events over the course of the whole year, and then all contributing to the big group end-of-semester event. We paid for the field trips and any kits/supplies required for the activities in advance, which also really encouraged people to COME, rather than blow it off every week.

 

 

Just our experience:

After about 5th grade, we found co-ops just did not work for us. We needed more meat than what the typical "enrichment" type co-op offered, yet I wasn't wanting to have to use the material of a formal CC co-op AND also give up some of our at-home time to do the required support material. But up until 5th grade, small mini-co-ops were great. :)

 

BEST of luck in finding what works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[fourisenough]

Short answer and totally just my own personal opinion: CC is so much better than a co-op. 

 

Disclaimer: we are in our first year with CC, and I'm really feeling the love! I have a just-turned 9-year old who participates in Foundations and Essentials and a 4 year-old in Foundations.  CC is perfect for the older child and tolerable for the younger.  (I just don't feel that CC is age-appropriate for Pre-K children; Montessori makes more sense to me.)  But, it really shines with an older elementary student. We also participate in a pay-per-class homeschool group one day per week.  My older DD takes 4 classes there.  They are each about $100 per semester, so a total cost of $800 for the year, on top of CC.  It is a LOT to pay, but it provides a perfect balance for my children.  Thus, I am not one who feels CC is expensive for what you get.

 

On the three days we're home, we do our CC memory work and our Essentials work, plus Math, Science, Literature, and SOTW reading, narration, & tests (timeline, map work, & hands-on projects are done in paid class).  It is busy and intense, but we're all very happy.

 

In the past, we've participated in a co-op.  It was pretty awful.  I didn't like that there was no consistency in the classes, behavior expectations, and academic level of the kids.  There were a few Classical families, but more unschoolish/relaxed/eclectic homeschoolers. I could never allow those classes to replace anything I would teach at home, and, frankly, could hardly consider them enrichments either.  Basically, it felt like filler and was a waste of our time.  There just seems to be so much more structure/predictability with CC or paid-teacher run classes.  Of course, this was just my experience.  I would suggest you visit and really get to know the other families before joining a co-op.

 

That's my two-cents worth.  Hope it helps you make your decision. 

[MooCow]

We have done both-at the same time. Long story short, we prefer to do CC lite at home, and enrichment classes outside.

I spent so much on the CC supplies, and they are handy, so I've incorporated them into our history, geography, and came up with our own memory work.

[OneStepAtATime]

Every co-op is different.  There are some co-ops that are great and have wonderful courses, etc.  There are others that just do casual classes for kids to just get together.  Some are so disorganized they don't know what they are doing.  You really can't compare the two on general terms since there is such extreme variation among co-ops.  CC is more structured so you are more likely to get a similar experience from CC to CC and it is usually far more academically oriented.  Some love it, some hate it and some like it.  If it isn't working for you, there is no rule that says you have to do either CC or co-op.  A LOT of homeschoolers don't do either.  

 

We attend field trips with the Co-op and student council, drama club, speech club, etc. but not the classes.  We cover the core subjects and extras at home and it has worked just fine that way.  We sometimes share instruction or projects with other families on a smaller basis and those are fun, too.  

 

You have to go with your instincts.  Maybe try not doing CC and see how you feel.  If you aren't happy, why stick with it without pursuing other options?  You might find something else that works much better.  As others have mentioned, though, you can always go back if you find it was working better than you realized.  Good luck and best wishes!

[amselby81]

Man, you guys aren't telling me what I want to hear.  LOL!  Don't stop though.  I appreciate the honesty.  I was just hoping there'd be someone out there who would say that they liked the co-op better than CC. 

[staceyobu]

Man, you guys aren't telling me what I want to hear.  LOL!  Don't stop though.  I appreciate the honesty.  I was just hoping there'd be someone out there who would say that they liked the co-op better than CC. 

 

How old are your kids now?  We left CC for a co-op and it was the right decision for our family.  The local and cheap co-op here is well run and the kids enjoy it a lot.  Moms volunteer to teach classes, so sometimes you get amazing and sometimes you don't.  However, I felt with CC tutors that sometimes you got amazing and sometimes you got the bare minimum.  And that was a much more expensive risk.

 

I feel like I am really good at teaching academics.  (At least with lower elementary students, lol!)  I feel like I am pretty terrible at doing fun crafty stuff.  For me, I feel like the co-op worked well.  The kids have done PE type classes, crafts of all sorts, and art.  I am perfectly happy to organize my own history and science at home without the pressure of matching stuff up to CC.

 

If you aren't loving what you are currently doing, try something else and see how it goes.  I really, really stressed over our decision to leave CC.  Many of our closest friends were doing it and it was hard to walk away.  I felt like, ultimately, it didn't match my academic goals and was creating additional stress.  I am very happy now to look back in hindsight and see that we made the right decision.  And, we are saving $1500 a year as a nice added bonus.  Good grief, that is a trip to Disneyworld every 3 years to NOT have the stress of CC!  I mean, if you love it, it is worth the money... but if you don't, then it is really not worth the money.  

[2_girls_mommy]

Well, I will say that as my kids have gotten older in co-op the classes have changed.  In ours the elem classes were more enrichment.  But I could choose to make that our curriculum for the year easily by using what the teacher was using in class at home the rest of the week or by covering the same topics/subjects at home w/my own materials.  I may be lucky, but I have had really good luck w/co-ops.  I have been able to get my children in classes that cover materials that we are covering at home.  They generally get the games and crafts w/that subject in classtime so I don't have to feel guilty about not doing a clay project of the planet Mercury at home.  Then I can come home, read books on the topic w/dd and have her write definitions and a summary on the topic over the week.  And it really has seemed *for me* that co-op always offers something that I wanted to do that year and that enriches.  I might just be lucky, but the year we did WTM chemistry we had a co-op class that did chemistry experiments every week.  It was a perfect supplement to the 1 I was doing a week at home.  Last year dd10 did a middle school science text.  It was my biology year at home and that text had a LOT of biology, plus they had the microscopes, dissections, and demonstrations there.  I only had to do minimal at home. 
At the same time I wanted to cover those topics for my ydd, so a couple of the moms and I discussed what we wanted to do w/our younger kids and chose a different book for them.  I worked that book at home w/her, but the other moms and did the projects in class.  Some kids were just along for the ride and used our class as enrichment.  But some of us were doing complete studies of it at home as well.  My dd10 in the middle school class had tests, daily homework sheets and reading to for her class.  I teach latin for kids (in separate classes) from 3rd grade to high school right now.  Those in 2nd Form have homework and tests.  The ones in LCI can do as they like. Some do the workbooks and tests at home, some don't.   I started a latin club last year for kids that wanted to study for the ELEs and had a great turn out.  We had so much fun covering the topics w/out a curric and making up projects and we performed a big play at the end of the year performance that the kids wrote on their own. 

 

One thing I like is that we as the moms can get together and discuss our goals and what we want to do, what we need for our kids for the next year and work together to see who else that in common and who wants to get together to teach that, who has experience w/it, who has taught it before, etc.  We have a say in what we are doing. 

 

I understand joining a new one, it might take some time to get to know everyone and to feel like you have a say in the curriculum.  But it can be a great option.  It certainly gives me more freedom in my curric. I like MP latin.  CC uses something different.  I don't like Saxon math.  I want formal English in elem. school, not just latin, etc.   I like that we can make anything into a class that others want to do together.  Moms that are just looking for fun or fluff aren't going to put their kids in my classes more than liley, and vice versa.

 

Anyway, again, not from someone who has done CC, but someone who is successful in Classical homeschooling w/a non classical co-op.

[Mom0012]

I only briefly belonged to a CC group many years ago, but I did do the memory work at home with my kids for a number of years. For me, there are two reasons to join a coop. Either to fulfill social needs and take enrichment classes or to have excellent classes that are beyond my ability to teach at home taught by skilled teachers. I would never sign up for a coop taught by whatever mom happened to be assigned to a class unless it was purely for enrichment and social reasons.

 

If you are looking for an academic coop, I would look at the resumes of the people who are teaching the classes and speak with the other parents to see what kind of results they are getting. If you are lucky, you will be with like minded people and also have a nice social aspect as well. The group we joined isn't really a coop, but a cottage school and it fits one of my children's academic needs perfectly. The jury is still out on how good of a fit it is for the other.

[Mrs Twain]

I agree with others about the need to assess your goals.  Sit down and write out your goals for homeschooling.  Assess how well you are achieving those goals and where the gaps are.  Then you will know what you are looking for in a co-op.

 

For me, there were a number of goals which I aspired to accomplish but which were not happening for the last couple of year in my house.  I realized that CC would meet almost every one of the goals I could not do myself, including providing opportunities for public speaking and an increased amount of memory work, besides additional opportunities to meet more friends.  For my family, CC is worth the price because it meets these goals which dh and I consider very important. 

 

If CC is not meeting your goals, you should consider looking elsewhere.  For example, if one of your biggest gaps for your kids is writing, consider enrolling in a writing class.  If you feel badly because you never do any crafts or science projects, then look for a co-op which focuses on those things.  If the biggest need you have is making friends, most any co-op could fit the bill. 

[sassenach]

You won't know unless you try!  What do you have to lose?  Certainly not money.  

 

I think foundations is grossly overpriced, personally. In the same way co-op classes depend on the teacher, so also do cc classes.  I debated cc for my kids, but then I learned who was teaching the class and realized it was not going to work at all.  Also, one of the flightiest hs moms I know is planning on tutoring the nearest Challenge program next year, and I don't think she's even close to a fit for teaching that type of program.  It makes me realize that I could potentially be investing thousands to pay people to do a job that I could do better. At least with our co-op, it doesn't take over the rest of our academic week, and it only costs us $100 a year.

 

Also, my kids get a ton of valuable skills from our co-op.  It's highly social, but they're really growing through their involvement, too.

[T'smom]

Did I read it correctly that you're in your 3rd year of CC and your oldest is 6? My oldest is 6 and we just started CC this year. Honestly, I am very seriously considering NOT doing CC next year. I think it would be great for older elementary kids, I just don't think it's developmentally appropriate for younger ones. I wanted CC for community and to be around other families with high expectations, public speaking, and fun art and science projects. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to do on my own and I didn't really want to devote more than 15 minutes/day to CC. It's turning out to be more than that. When they play the review games, my son feels put on the spot, so I feel like he has to know everything even though it's not important to us. Skip counting the 14s? Some of the science projects have not been developmentally appropriate for 1st grade and we have yet to do a really fun art project. When I went to the info session, they showed us pictures of the kids painting on paper underneath their chairs like Michelangelo. What we actually do is more like 'let's draw a picture using curved lines and straight lines.' BUT, if this is your 3rd year, you know way more about it than I do!

 

Co-ops are going to vary so widely, that you can't really compare them to each other.

[prissygirls]

I am in our second year of CC. We have done other co-op before and it just was not fitting our needs. I found that the other mom's teaching were ill prepared or the kids were unruly. We just love CC, the family feel, the accountability, etc. I can not see us leaving unless the kids in up in public school. But that is my family, you could always try another co-op and come back to CC later. Or join another co-op along with CC. The other co-op could be the fun one...CC the academic.

[momacacia]

We started CC when 9yo was just turning 7. It has been great for her. This is our 3rd year. It is her community, she did MM last year and will again this year and we use the memory work in language arts, she pulls up memorized geography when it arises during stories and even connects dates of artists with history events and makes other connections. So I've loved it for her.

 

However, I'm sick and tired of it. LOL. Particularly this year, I think, because I out almost 5yo into abecedarians and I just think it is too young. It is her teacher's first year with CC and while she is doing an admirable job, she doesn't really use the songs which would really help the class. The (very bright) kids are ( understandably!) bored. 4yo enjoys the reviiew we do at home with big sis, but it just seems ridiculous to me at this age, and I'm seeing/hearing that from several other moms with kids in this age area. I had a very experienced homeschool, large family, mom who has kids throughout the CC age spectrum who said she wouldn't even put her kids in at the level I started mine at. It's worked well for us, but I just think 6 or 7 is the time to start, not end.

 

My optimal year next year would be to do CC memory work at home and meet with 2-3 other families to review memory work 2x/month. Then I'd do more play dates for my girls at home or playground. I've not been impressed with co-ops in my area.

[amselby81]

Did I read it correctly that you're in your 3rd year of CC and your oldest is 6? My oldest is 6 and we just started CC this year. Honestly, I am very seriously considering NOT doing CC next year. I think it would be great for older elementary kids, I just don't think it's developmentally appropriate for younger ones. I wanted CC for community and to be around other families with high expectations, public speaking, and fun art and science projects. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to do on my own and I didn't really want to devote more than 15 minutes/day to CC. It's turning out to be more than that. When they play the review games, my son feels put on the spot, so I feel like he has to know everything even though it's not important to us. Skip counting the 14s? Some of the science projects have not been developmentally appropriate for 1st grade and we have yet to do a really fun art project. When I went to the info session, they showed us pictures of the kids painting on paper underneath their chairs like Michelangelo. What we actually do is more like 'let's draw a picture using curved lines and straight lines.' BUT, if this is your 3rd year, you know way more about it than I do!

 

Co-ops are going to vary so widely, that you can't really compare them to each other.

 

I need to change my siggy.  She just turned 7 last month and is in first grade.  We started when she was 4, almost 5 and in pre-k.  The art projects you saw were from the 3rd quarter.  That is my favorite quarter!  I do not care for the first and second quarter (basic drawing and tin whistle) and the 4th quarter is kind of meh (orchestra).  Just hang tight for January though!  The kids will do painting and art projects to correlate with famous artists.  If I've done it correctly, I've attached a photo of my daughter doing a fresco painting, like Michelangelo.  We did this instead of the painting under the table. 

 

I didn't add that I am also a tutor (gasp!).  So, while I do get reimbursed, and tuition shouldn't be that big of a deal for me, we still have to pay for it up front before the year begins.  And then I don't see a paycheck until after the first quarter, and the pay is only in quarterly chunks.  The price still makes me bitter, especially when I think that next year my youngest will be able to do it, so then we'll be paying for two kids.  I am also pregnant and due in April, so I do not plan to tutor next year. Tutoring has proven stressful for me.  I am probably one of those less adequate tutors.  Granted, I have the youngest class, and I can see how the CC program is really hard for little ones.  3 hours of organized activity is A LOT for 4 and 5 year olds! By 11:00 my kids are whining for their mommies and we start to have some meltdowns. 

 

I have to say, Cycle 3 has been my favorite cycle, so I almost want to just hang in there through next year.  Plus, if I'm not tutoring, I don't have the extra stress.  I can kind of relax and enjoy the classes my girls will be in.  But then we're paying for 2 kids to do the program, and I won't be getting a reimbursment for it either...

[Dmmetler]

We've done a fun co-op for enrichment and social time, and at age 6-7, I think that's about perfect. It's been one light day a week for the more crafty, hands-on, fun stuff. The science projects, art projects, presenting in front of a group, discussion-type stuff. Most weeks we end up going out with friends afterwards-going to a park to have a picnic and play on the playground, going to someone's house, going for lunch together, etc. It's a nice, relaxed day for both of us.

 

I do see the end in sight, though-it's a lot harder to find good material for the middle-grades group than it was when we could just pick a picture book each week, read it, and do crafts and activities related to it, and a lot of parents start sending their kids to paid tutorials for academic subjects by about 5th grade or 6th grade (usually, whichever corresponds to middle school at the school their child would be attending if not HSed).

 

 

 

 

 

[Another Lynn]

I need to change my siggy.  She just turned 7 last month and is in first grade.  We started when she was 4, almost 5 and in pre-k.  The art projects you saw were from the 3rd quarter.  That is my favorite quarter!  I do not care for the first and second quarter (basic drawing and tin whistle) and the 4th quarter is kind of meh (orchestra).  Just hang tight for January though!  The kids will do painting and art projects to correlate with famous artists.  If I've done it correctly, I've attached a photo of my daughter doing a fresco painting, like Michelangelo.  We did this instead of the painting under the table. 

 

I didn't add that I am also a tutor (gasp!).  So, while I do get reimbursed, and tuition shouldn't be that big of a deal for me, we still have to pay for it up front before the year begins.  And then I don't see a paycheck until after the first quarter, and the pay is only in quarterly chunks.  The price still makes me bitter, especially when I think that next year my youngest will be able to do it, so then we'll be paying for two kids.  I am also pregnant and due in April, so I do not plan to tutor next year. Tutoring has proven stressful for me.  I am probably one of those less adequate tutors.  Granted, I have the youngest class, and I can see how the CC program is really hard for little ones.  3 hours of organized activity is A LOT for 4 and 5 year olds! By 11:00 my kids are whining for their mommies and we start to have some meltdowns. 

 

I have to say, Cycle 3 has been my favorite cycle, so I almost want to just hang in there through next year.  Plus, if I'm not tutoring, I don't have the extra stress.  I can kind of relax and enjoy the classes my girls will be in.  But then we're paying for 2 kids to do the program, and I won't be getting a reimbursment for it either...

 

Ah, tutoring while pregnant.  Yes, I understand how you feel!  That was my situation our first year in CC and it was so hard!  The next year, I did not want to drag a newborn out of the house every week (and like you I felt my 4 and 5.5 year old were still a little young for it).  So, our 2nd year, my dh arranged his schedule to take our oldest (morning only) and the rest stayed home with me.  Then the third year, we all went back again.  Then we tried the other co-op ( I mentioned in my previous post) and then we came back.  As my oldest hit the logic stage, we began to transition from a highly motivated homeschool family, to a dragging, slightly depressed homeschool family (my dh also deployed for a year during that time).  Part of our return to CC was a need for accountability, a need for encouragement from others who were striving for excellence.  That was not something we had needed before.   

 

Not tutoring next year could make it a lot easier on you.... then it's just a matter of weighing whether it meets your needs/desires for the money spent.  Best wishes as you weigh your options!

 

[amselby81]

Sigh. We're almost in March now, and registration is now open for next year.  I am still torn about what to do next year.  If we do CC, we would also register DD3, who will turn 4 in June.  Altogether, our tuition cost with fees will cost $975 for next year.  This would be our 2nd time doing Cycle 3, and I loved Cycle 3 the first time we did it.  I just don't really know.  Maybe we could give CC one more year, and then try the co-op for Cycle 1, since I didn't really care for Cycle 1.  But the price is like "EEEK!"  And since I have a baby due in April, I'm not sure I should tutor. Which could be a good thing, since I could be more relaxed, and not have to worry about tutoring.  But then I lose the little bit of compensation I'd get.  Oy, decisions are hard. 

[Lori D.]

Sigh. We're almost in March now, and registration is now open for next year.  I am still torn about what to do next year.  If we do CC, we would also register DD3, who will turn 4 in June.  Altogether, our tuition cost with fees will cost $975 for next year.  This would be our 2nd time doing Cycle 3, and I loved Cycle 3 the first time we did it.  I just don't really know.  Maybe we could give CC one more year, and then try the co-op for Cycle 1, since I didn't really care for Cycle 1.  But the price is like "EEEK!"  And since I have a baby due in April, I'm not sure I should tutor. Which could be a good thing, since I could be more relaxed, and not have to worry about tutoring.  But then I lose the little bit of compensation I'd get.  Oy, decisions are hard. 

 

Your kids are SO young, you've already done this for 3 years, and you've got a baby on the way, which would likely make tutoring not a good option for next year -- take a year off and focus on FAMILY! Enjoy doing some things together. Try out some fun curriculum supplements, science kits, art kits, etc. with some of that tuition money you won't be spending on CC.

 

See if there are some homeschooling moms near you with young young elementary/kinder/pre-schoolers, who  you could get together with 2-4 Fridays (or whatever day works) a month:

 

- one week a month do presentations!

- another week a month go on a field trip together

- a third week do a science experiment or history or art project together

- and a 4th week a month, have a laid-back Park Day for kids, and socialization for moms :)

 

Rotate so each mom only has to oversee ONE field trip or science/history/art thing every few months! Then you have very little to have to prepare for, no one feels burned out, the kids get to enjoy time with other kids doing a variety of activities without getting rushed from one subject to the next, and moms get to socialize while doing it!

 

There you go. I made it easy and "voted" for you. LOL! :D

 

But, seriously, whatever you decide, wishing you the VERY best, and hoping you have a great year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[cintinative]

I am in my second year homeschooling. Last year we did a co-op plus CC. I saw the co-op as enrichment/extracurriculars and CC as academic. We dropped CC for this year.  I knew I could not continue to do both while covering 1st and 2nd grade at home. Being out two days a week was too much.  The reason I chose the co-op over CC is that I looked at our family's needs and I felt that they were better met by the co-op. Our CC campus was not small but not terribly big, however, I never really connected there. As a new homeschooling mom what I needed most was input and encouragement. Unfortunately I was not getting this at CC.  A lot of the moms were tied up because they were tutoring.  It's just the way it went.  Also, my boys did not like CC. My youngest had friends and sort of liked it. My oldest did not like it at all and did not make friends.  

 

Like you I thought about using CC for my core and hated it.  I really only tried it for science. I started off looking at doing it for history and hated the jumping around in SOTW, so we decided to just do the history sentences and timeline and be happy when they matched up.  With the science, I ended up just pulling library books and doing work around the different subjects for CC each week and again, didn't like the jumping around.  

 

For me the co-op is much better at allowing opportunities for connecting. My kids are in Jr. FLL and gym and a science class. I have a free period where I can talk to moms. Everyone comes to lunch (not just the people who don't have an afternoon class to teach).  It just fits better with our family.  Academically, it is not classical and it may not be as strong as CC in terms of book learning. But i don't participate in co-op for book learning. It is social and extracurricular.

 

I hope this helps.  By the way, this year we are doing CC history sentences, timeline, Latin songs, and math songs at home.  It is going well. 

[cintinative]

 

In the past, we've participated in a co-op.  It was pretty awful.  I didn't like that there was no consistency in the classes, behavior expectations, and academic level of the kids.  There were a few Classical families, but more unschoolish/relaxed/eclectic homeschoolers. I could never allow those classes to replace anything I would teach at home, and, frankly, could hardly consider them enrichments either.  Basically, it felt like filler and was a waste of our time.  There just seems to be so much more structure/predictability with CC or paid-teacher run classes.  Of course, this was just my experience.  I would suggest you visit and really get to know the other families before joining a co-op.

 

That's my two-cents worth.  Hope it helps you make your decision. 

 

I just wanted to say that this has not been my experience with the co-op I am in for the most part. However, I do consider our co-op to be an enrichment day. As sdunckel said, I would not allow it to replace academics. That is not for us the purpose of being in a co-op.  Even though both of my boys are taking science at co-op, we still do science at home.  

 

I find the diversity of the co-op to be a good thing. I hear different points of view, not all classical, and sometimes that has been a blessing.   

 

There is definitely more structure with CC. The first week I did both it was so obvious to me there was a real difference in the feel of the "campus" during the day at CC versus co-op. Co-op is a  lot more free and loose. CC felt strict and structured. Part of that is the intent of the day.  CC's intent is learning and memorization--the curriculum.  The co-op's focus is the families and the kids.

 

You just really need to pray and ask God where YOUR family's needs are right now. There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending a day out of the house on academics at CC. And, I would argue, there is also nothing wrong with spending a day outside the house with friends doing fun things and connecting.  It's all about what you need most.  

[mhaddon]

This is my first year in CC after participating in our local coop for years. It's so much better. I cringe when I look through all the pre they've been posting about for the local coop. Where shall I begin?

 

First, CC is way more structured and the tutors are being paid so they put in a lot of effort- where at the other coops they aren't. A few will put in the work, but most of the classes are thrown together and do not have any accountability.

You know exactly what you are getting in CC, no changes. So far this semester I have seen a few classes changed or dropped, and just a lack of what the class will be about.

 

With the other coop It was disapointing to go week after week and the teachers have NOTHING prepared. Very upseting. My 2nd grade son was in a PE class where they rotated between dodgeball, tag, what time is it Mr. Fox, and duck duck goose... I have enough kids at home to do this. The second class was an art class where they made one thing the whole year and otherwise they colored or drew. My kids do this for fun on their own time. ANd the other class is what they call boy/girl play time. Uh, ok his best friend was in the girl class and he was so heartbroken they couldn't play. Very gender specific as well (makes me mad) and they played with blocks and legos for an hour. COMPLETE waste of our day. This year they had better offerings and I almost joined so they could see some friends. The best class was canceled and replaced with boy/girl play time- this is for 3/4th grade kids!!! I mean make a play date and do that, don't charge a coop fee for it! And the other class is a show and tell class- funny because it was never offered until we started our CC and the presentation time was drawing members, haha. So this show and tell class has no direction or guidelines, but they want the kids to write out 3 paragraphs and read from them in class for show and tell. The moms in the group are flipping out over it (kinda funny to see unfold). It's insanity.

 

CC has clear rules and what is/ is no acceptable.   Other coop is a free for all the makes me leave with a headache.

CC has more community, other coop is a very clickish group with no community feel at all.

CC we all eat lunch together and have fellowship, other coop as soon as they clean their area they bolt to their groups lunch date area without inviting others. I don't understand why they have to always go to a fast food restraunt? Well we don't and so people like us have to find each other or go home.

 

Anyways, I could go on and on.  I really hate our local coop, love many of the moms, but hate the coop.  I've volunteered to teach a knitting class and was told a $5 fee to buy needles, yarn, and make copies was too much. So a year later another mom volunteers a crochet class and they let her teach. Yes, I was very upset.  I volunteered to do a gardening class (I'm a master gardener) and I was told it was too much for the group (what???) so the next year they have someone teach one like it and it was HORRIBLE, like wanted to poke my own eyes out. I told them I would teach a class on the book backyard ballistics and just collect recycables. They thought that was great, but I had to find another comparable class for the girls, because this was a boys only class (?????) and the girls wouldn't need to do that. WHAT??? I could go on and on. So basically if you want to teach a crappy "art" class, or watch the kids play with unstructered guidelines you are fine to teach... if it is something worthwhile find a group of friends... which is what I do.

[mhaddon]

I'm an ABC tutor as well, it's hard with that age group. But snack time makes them hold out and they LOVE presentations! We also move around a ton so that helps them. I also within the time let them structrue it a bit. If we run through science statement 7 times and they want to do another thing I let them help with ideas. We also talk to each other a lot durring fine arts. It was hard with tin whistle, but the others it was easy and they loved talking. We also take turns doing the experiements so they get hands on, not just me demonstrating. We make our time just fine and don't rush. I always have a fun review game and never keep points. At that age it's just to make recalling it fun, not about who is memorizing more. We help each other and say it together. One week I brought in a big puzzle and we answered questions for pieces and then put it together while singing timeline. We did nerf gun review and they loved it! We do all sorts of games that make it fun. They look foreward to it and don't whine at all. I spend very little time prepping honestly. I also just make up motions, voices, and songs on a whim. I really don't even use CCconnected.

[cintinative]

mhaddon, that co-op does sound terrible. For what it is worth, the co-op I am a part of is not like that. The teachers do prepare, write lessons, and actually teach subjects. I do a Jr. First Lego League team plus a simple machines Lego class. My boys are also taking an Animals and their Habitats lapbooking class.  Our co-op has academics as well as a paid skilled art teacher, a paid guitar/voice/musical theatre teacher, and fun extracurriculars.  We have great classes, committed parents, and no "play" periods.  We each get a minimum of $5 for supplies, but I get $50/year for Jr. FLL for supplies/fees.  I am so sorry you had that experience. 

 

They do play dodge ball and kickball in gym but they have 18 kids and I only have two. So I don't mind.  =)

[Jennefer@SSA]

We are in a co-op that is very academic with one enrichment period in there as well.  There was not one in my area that fit what I was looking for so I helped start one. We started small with just 8 families. We are in our second year with 12 families. We cover non-core subjects - but are all the subjects that makes a well-rounded education and are best learned in a group (in my opinion): History (TOG), Science (currently using ES but switching next year possibly to Noeo), Music, and Art. 

 

I knew CC was not for us because of the price and other personal reasons. Yet I wanted to be part and wanted my kids to be part of a true learning community. I wanted to teach the core subjects myself - math, reading, grammar, spelling, phonics... - but just I just couldn't seem to be as consistent as I wanted to be with teaching History and Science. I was exhausted by the afternoon. Now we meet two afternoons a week from 12-4 and I know my boys are finally getting the education I want for them. 

[thegeyser]

The best advice I can give you when searching for a co-op is to find one that shares your expectations and makes them explicit. If you expect people to show up prepared or hold their children to a certain standard of discipline, look for a co-op that asks moms and their children to sign something that commits them to these things, for example: committed attendance, coming prepared, abiding by certain codes of conduct, faith-based teaching (if important to you). There are co-ops consisting of women with integrity to follow-through. I joined a co-op for two years that passed out a 50+ page binder at the beginning of co-op and had extremely high expectations for members (with only fees charged for supplies, building, insurance, etc). Hope that helps! I don't think it is fair to paint all co-ops as having less-than-desirable attributes. Like the person above, when CC did not fit my needs, I ended up starting something small that was unavailable in other existing co-ops. Actually, there weren't any other co-ops nearby when we started ours. We participated in two co-ops for two years, but this year we decided to focus just on our small Charlotte Mason group that is more local. Both co-ops have been wonderful experiences for our family and have been filled with committed women who show up prepared. It helps that both co-ops require a syllabus and pick supporting curriculum before the co-op season begins.

     

[Ellie]

Well, do you really need either one? There's much to be said for staying home and doing your own thing, with just occasional, informal get-togethers with other homeschoolers.

[Guest lifewithoutpb]

Did I read it correctly that you're in your 3rd year of CC and your oldest is 6? My oldest is 6 and we just started CC this year. Honestly, I am very seriously considering NOT doing CC next year. I think it would be great for older elementary kids, I just don't think it's developmentally appropriate for younger ones. I wanted CC for community and to be around other families with high expectations, public speaking, and fun art and science projects. I had a lot of stuff I wanted to do on my own and I didn't really want to devote more than 15 minutes/day to CC. It's turning out to be more than that. When they play the review games, my son feels put on the spot, so I feel like he has to know everything even though it's not important to us. Skip counting the 14s? Some of the science projects have not been developmentally appropriate for 1st grade and we have yet to do a really fun art project. When I went to the info session, they showed us pictures of the kids painting on paper underneath their chairs like Michelangelo. What we actually do is more like 'let's draw a picture using curved lines and straight lines.' BUT, if this is your 3rd year, you know way more about it than I do!

 

Co-ops are going to vary so widely, that you can't really compare them to each other.

 

In my opinion (and several other CC parents I've asked) Cycle 3 is the easiest/most fun of the cycles.  Cycle 1 was a horror for us and I dreaded it.  The history songs were not fun except for the "they fought!" line which all the southern kids in our class turned into something completely different  :001_rolleyes:.  Cycle 2 has been better and I've enjoyed it more but I am really looking forward to next year.  If every cycle were like Cycle 1, I am not sure we'd stay in.  I love the concept, I love the rigorous academics it fosters, but egad...I found myself longing for teens to send to Challenge to escape the history songs.

 

However, I will be interested to see if CC keeps the songs of C3 the same as they did the first year we were in (2011-2012).  They've come out with a new CD and Foundations guide and if the songs have changed, I'll be highly disappointed.  Not only because this fouls up my DSs' chances of passing Memory Masters, but also because I don't want to buy another CD after spending $30 for one just three years ago.  History hasn't changed - not even the President song needs to be amended!

 

I feel like I've said a lot of negative about CC but it's been our rock and center of our homeschooling.  Not necessarily the material itself, because I am a "break out the ipad app and just go through it" kind of reviewer, but because we've become such good friends with the members of our CC community.  I don't know if I would have been able to continue our homeschool journey if it hadn't been for the support and love of the ladies I've met through our community.  We really are a family.  We found our church through our CC group, which lead to us finding our small group which also contains a CC family who just happens to be in one of our DS's classes.  Suffice it to say, I am really tight with my CC ladies and either email, FB, text or talk to them on the phone each day.  I don't want to ignore the academic aspect of CC here though:  it is what convinced me to homeschool in the first place.  It fills in the gaps that I feel inadequate to fill:  art, science experiments, and it gave us a comprehensive timeline of history!  That was a massive selling point for me.  I also love the prospect of Challenge A - IV because I was unsure how to handle high school.  After seeing the material taught in Challenge, I felt excited for my children and a bit envious that my high school experience didn't include debate and apologetics.  

 

I've never tried a co-op but have toyed with the idea.  I am not sure we have time to fit one in our schedule, but it would be nice to find one that focused on PE or crafts as those aren't my strengths either (unfortunately!).

[Guest Fiveewings]

We do cc, and it's our first year in essentials. We are starting a mini co-op with a few other families who are also in essentials, not all are doing foundations. But we are keeping it small, and every mom will be actively involved. We each take a subject, and prepare a lesson for that subject only, with homework for the week, if needed. History, science, etc will have no homework. By being responsible for only subject, we are able to do it in more depth and detail. So our children are able to dig deeper into the cc grammar, but we aren't overwhelming ourselves at home by trying to "do it all". And by limiting the size of our co-op, we are able to offer it free (just cost of actual materials needed for crafts, etc), and we are all putting in the same effort and receiving the same benefits from it. Our goal is to relieve the stress of trying to plan for everything, recover things that may be put on the back burner a lot, add a competitive aspect, and our big goal is to make it so that when we go back home that day, we will not have ANYTHING else to do or catch up on. Since all families will have at least one child in essentials, we also are having one class where they can work on eel and iew papers as well that day.