How do you deal with meltdowns/tantrums in public?

[joannqn]

Here is today's scenario:

 

We were at the library.  I asked my 13 year old to keep an eye on the littles in the kids area while I went to hunt down a couple of books for school.  I wasn't finding what I needed so I asked the reference librarian for help.  Just as we were finishing up, I was heading back to the stacks when DD13 brought DD4 (that's age 4) to me, telling me that she was on the verge of a tantrum. 

DD13 says that DD4 demanded to play on DD13's ipod.  The problem occurred when DD13 wouldn't hand over her ipod.  

DD4 claimed that sister would not let her get more books. I calmly explained that she would need to come with me while I got the book I needed and then I would help her get more books.  She refused to come with me.  I repeated my solution, and she still refused to come.  I talked about making good choices and asked her if she was making good choices.  She agreed that she was not making good choices.  Still, she refused to come.  I told her that if she didn't come with me, we would have to leave without her books.  She refused and turned around to go back to the kids area on her own.

What would you do?

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would quick tell the librarian that I would be back for the book I was looking for.  Then I would leave the library with the kids.  I would strap the kids (ie. 4 year old esp.) in the car.  I would feel comfortable leaving a 13 year old to watch her in locked car that was not running even if the 4 year old decided to tantrum.  I would return to the library, get the book with the help of the librarian, and then go home.  Then I would treat the rest of the kids who had to put up with the tantrum while you were busy!  

[*Lulu*]

In that situation I would have physically picked DD4 up, apologized to the librarian, gathered the rest of my kids, and left. Without books for DD4.

 

Now, I live within walking distance of the library so going back later is no big thing for me. If I was at the big library across town, with a teen available, I would have left dd4 in the car with dd13 and finished my dealings in the library.

[Ali in OR]

I'm tempted to tell her she's not old enough to go to the library. I would put my books on hold, leave all the kids in the car with the responsible 13 yo, and run in to get the books on hold. Do that every week for a month or two, then ask if she thinks she is now old enough to go in the library and explain what that means behavior-wise. I know that's an after-the-fact solution, but I remember that when my kids got to the melt-down point they were beyond rational thinking and there was really no way to stop the undesirable behavior while it was happening.

[sassenach]

Here is today's scenario:

 

We were at the library.  I asked my 13 year old to keep an eye on the littles in the kids area while I went to hunt down a couple of books for school.  I wasn't finding what I needed so I asked the reference librarian for help.  Just as we were finishing up, I was heading back to the stacks when DD13 brought DD4 (that's age 4) to me, telling me that she was on the verge of a tantrum. 

 

DD13 says that DD4 demanded to play on DD13's ipod.  The problem occurred when DD13 wouldn't hand over her ipod.  

 

DD4 claimed that sister would not let her get more books. I calmly explained that she would need to come with me while I got the book I needed and then I would help her get more books.  She refused to come with me.  I repeated my solution, and she still refused to come.  I talked about making good choices and asked her if she was making good choices.  She agreed that she was not making good choices.  Still, she refused to come.  I told her that if she didn't come with me, we would have to leave without her books.  She refused and turned around to go back to the kids area on her own.

 

What would you do?

I would pick her up and walk out the door- no books.  I'd have the 13yo check out anything I needed. She'd get food, water, and a nap (or at least time alone in her room) when we got home.  

 

I had a season when ds was right about that same age, where the library was our kryptonite.  I would put holds on anything I needed, because our visits often lasted less than 5 minutes before he would do something requiring us to leave.  For about 6 months, all of our visits ended with me picking him up and walking straight out the door.  Good times.

[Murphy101]

I told her that if she didn't come with me, we would have to leave without her books. She refused and turned around to go back to the kids area on her own.

I'd have picked her up and left sans books.

[swellmomma]

I would have followed through with what I said I would do, so in your case you told her if she didn't come with you then you would leave and no books for her, she didn't comply so you follow through and walk out with no books for her.

[joannqn]

Ok, I'm glad to see that everyone is on a similar page and would handle it about the same what I did.

I walked her over to DD13 who was sitting near the kids' area.  The children's librarian was sitting nearby.  I asked the children's librarian if she could show DD13 where the book I needed was located.  I asked DD13 to go with the librarian to get the book, check out all of the books, and bring the other kids out to the car.  Then I picked up DD4...well I tried to pick up DD4.  She is impossible to pick up.  She runs away, wiggles, and/or grabs on.  So, what happened is that I walked out with her latched onto my leg and pulling my shirt.  Once I got outside, she let go and I tried to pick her up.  I was able to get an arm between her legs and the other arm around her torso.  She wiggled until she was dangling between my arms by her neck.  Yes, I did everything I could to keep a good hold on her.  We were in the middle of the parking lot so I didn't want to let her go and risk her getting hit by a car.  I hurried to my car and grabbed her tightly by the wrist while unlocking the car.  Once I got her into the car, she bolted for the other side and get out of the car.  I was fast enough to grab her before she got away, put her in the seat, and leaned on her while forcing her arms in the straps.   When I finally got her in, I pulled the straps as tight as I could.  Meanwhile, she was pulling the neckline of my shirt as much as she could, and I had to pry her fingers open.  After several tries I was finally able to get away.  About this time, my other kids made it to the car and we left.  While we were driving, she was kicking and pushing my seat as hard as she could and screaming at the very top of her lungs.  I had DD13 call DH en route to meet us in the driveway.  When we got home, he took over.  She told him that the fit was because she wanted more books.  She neglected to tell him about the ipod or the fact that I gave her the opportunity to get more books.

So, now...how do I get her out to the car in a safer manner?  I don't like the risk of hurting her or her bolting.  During a previous meltdown, I had to run down the street after her.  Due to a foot injury, I can barely overtake her, and it comes with several days of pain and limping.

[GSOchristie]

I always take my double stroller everywhere. It serves two purposes, no one gets hit in traffic and if you can't behave, it becomes your seat. Actually three, I also toss all my junk in there if everyone is behaving :). Piper is a library nightmare, it's like she's possessed as we walk through the door. She gets one chance to behave, which she promptly blows, then she goes into the stroller. She has a tantrum in there sometimes, but at least I can get what I need as quickly as I can. If I had an older child, I would ask her to take the tantrum thrower outside to the car to quickly finish my check out.

[swellmomma]

Well that is more than a tantrum and would have netted a spanking once we were home.  A 4 yr old tantrum is one thing, trying to run away, jump out of the vehicle, yanking on my clothing and all the rest of the bs kicking the seat which could very well cause an accident would have crossed into the realm of what I used spanking for (used since the kids are bigger now).  A tantrum I pick up the child and we leave and give space to cool down, but what you are describing went beyond that in a big way. 

How did you address her not telling daddy the truth or all the rest of the behaviour that occured when you went to leave?

 

ETA as for future issues.  Ds15 had to be on a harness because he was a runner.  It wasn't even that he was having a fit, he just would take off.  We went through several styles/brands before we found one that worked.  We got the looks and the comments about kids on leashes but honestly it was the only thing that kept him safe.  This was especially true when ds10 was a baby and ds15 was only 5 and would vanish, my hands were already full, dd then 4 and baby were already using the double stroller or ds baby was strapped to be in a carrier and I could not risk running after ds then 5 like that.  The harness did the trick.  And then I just opted to run as many errands without him as I could just to avoid the temptation for him to run and the over stimulation leading to meltdowns.

[Farrar]

Four is the age at which I was working on strategies other than physical removal whenever possible.  So while I probably would have dragged her out (no one should have to hear the tantrum in a library) I don't know if I would have wrestled her into the car myself - not when she gave you such a chase with it.  I might have put the kid down once we got outside and then waited it out.  But that depends on whether she's a bolter.  Some kids run off in dangerous ways, so then it's not an option to plop them on the library steps and just wait it out.

[GSOchristie]

I just read your update, how big is she? My four year old still gets the stroller for misbehavior, but he's very small and easy to pick up (and doesn't throw tantrums, God bless his soul).

[joannqn]

This is standard behavior for her during a tantrum.  I had to call DH to come help me on a field trip a week and a half ago.  While trying to get her to the car at that time, she threatened to bite me and proceeded to try.   Tantrums typically last between 30-90 minutes.  

She gets talked to when she is finally calm.   She says she doesn't like having tantrums.  She always apologizes and cries while doing so.  She seems genuinely remorseful afterwards.  Still she gets whatever natural (or made up to look natural) consequences I can think of.  

Field trip day she had to go home without finishing the field trip.  I took the other kids out for ice cream without her to make up for them having to leave.

Today, she didn't get more books.  She doesn't get any of the books she chose that DD13 had checked out (they are in the car for me to take back to the library).  She won't be able to go to the library next time we go.  She doesn't get to play on the computer or chose something to watch on TV for the rest of the day since the cause involved a screen.

[Starr]

It sounds like she is going to have to be by your side at all times or left home with dad for a while. The taking off is scary.

[joannqn]

I'd hand DD13 the library card and tell her to get everyone's books checked out while DD4 and I waited outside. Then I'd scoop DD4 up and we would go outside.

DS also has had occasional meltdowns in public, and we are finding this book very helpful: http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383005304&sr=1-1&keywords=what+to+do+when+your+temper+flares

 

A few weeks ago, he "lost it" in public and was able to use the techniques in the book to get it together again, so we didn't need to go home.

 

I have it on hold at the library.  It's at the branch in our town so it will be ready to pick up tomorrow.

 

If she is being a danger to herself and a nuisance to others, I'd leave her at home with DH for the next few library trips... and the selections I brought back for her would all be by Joy Berry.

 

Unfortunately, there is not a single Joy Berry book in the entire library system covering five counties.

[jelbe5]

I am so sorry . . . we have had problems like this with my son who has autism.

 

The punishment for this kind of behavior is that my son is not allowed to come with to (fill in the blank . . . library, store, mall, etc.) for quite a while after bad behavior.  This is not only for the tantrum behavior but for the dangerous, reckless behavior (trying to run away, etc.).

 

The other though I had was the same one as that of SwellMomma . . . a harness or leash.  I needed one for my oldest when she was young because she tended to bolt away.  I got one for her after she took off in a parking lot next to a busy main road.  I was pregnant at the time and almost did not catch her. She was about 2 at the time.  She hated that leash but it worked and she began to accept the fact that if she wanted me to get rid of it she had to stop running away from me.

 

Could there be anything that may be contributing to your daughter's tantrums?  Something such as food or environmental allergies?  Some kids just pitch fits more than others but I was wondering if there could be something else that could be changed that would help both you and her.   :grouphug:

[Farrar]

I have it on hold at the library.  It's at the branch in our town so it will be ready to pick up tomorrow.

 

 

Unfortunately, there is not a single Joy Berry book in the entire library system covering five counties.

 

I'll bet they also have When Sophie Gets Angry by Molly Bang, which was one my boys found useful at that age.

[bettyandbob]

I would have quickly finished with the librarian, given the books I wanted to check out to 13yo, then I would gather all dc. 13yo would check out books for all except 4yo. While 13yo was checking out everyone else would be getting in the car with me.

 

If what I was doing was not going yo be done fast, I'd pack everyone up to leave, still having 13 yo check books for everyone except me and 4yo.

 

at home 4 yo would get nap time.

[lllll]

..

[joannqn]

 

Could there be anything that may be contributing to your daughter's tantrums?  Something such as food or environmental allergies?  Some kids just pitch fits more than others but I was wondering if there could be something else that could be changed that would help both you and her.   :grouphug:

 

 

There are no indications that she has environmental allergies.  

 

When she was an infant, she had allergies to dairy.  I had to eliminate it from my diet while I was nursing because it caused her to severe reflux.  She seemed to outgrow the allergy when she was around twelve months old and went about about a year to year and a half without any symptoms or problems of any kind.  The tantrums started sometime after she turned two and have continued until now.  

 

We recenly put her on a strict dairy free diet to see if there would be any difference.  During that time she had two tantrums.  We let her off the diet after two weeks for a friend's birthday at a restaurant.  While eating dairy, she'll go anywhere from having no tantrums for 2 weeks to having them daily.  So, dairy doesn't appear to be an issue.  We don't eat soy at all due to allergies in two of us.  No one in the family has any other allergies, and there are no indications that she has any....other than the behavior.

 

So, I don't know, but I don't think food is an issue.

[Jen in NY]

Awwww, mama. Good times, right?

 

I know you have other kids and you are an expert mama, so I'm not trying to give you advice.... just a ((hug)) and a story...

 

My dd#1 was the biggest tantrum thrower ever, starting from about 9months. When we got pregnant with #2 everyone said, "REALLY?!?" LOL

We were new parents and were at such a loss with her that we even took part in some parenting studies at a University to get free parenting classes. (They were great, by the way.... based on Parent Effectiveness Training http://www.amazon.com/Parent-Effectiveness-Training-Responsible-Children/dp/0609806939)

 

She was a tantrum thrower until about 5yo, and then, almost overnight, she became the kid with the most self control ever. Don't know how it happened... but it was almost like the flipside of the same coin. As stubborn as she was about getting her way when she was small, that's how hard she works to accomplish things now. At times it is even too much --- she puts a lot of pressure on herself --- but I can't tell you how many people have complimented her on her work ethic over the years, and how many awards she's won..... it's weird. If you had asked me when she was 4 what her future held I would have thought to myself, "I don't know for sure but there's bound to be some kind of correctional facility in there at some point!"

 

Best to you!! At least you know that you won't be carrying her out of the library at 18, right? :)

[joannqn]

I'll bet they also have When Sophie Gets Angry by Molly Bang, which was one my boys found useful at that age.

 

They do.  I have it on hold.

 

I would keep her beside me at all times, too.  She sounds like way too much for a 13yo to handle.  

 

I would reserve the books ahead of time and let dh pick them up, or go when he could watch her - either at the library with you or at home while you go.  Mostly because it sounds like she's seriously interrupting your other dc's time at the library, too.  They're at the ages where they should be able to browse and enjoy the books on their own - in peace. 

 

Maybe you could do some outings for the specific purpose of training her to behave, setting it up so there are immediate and serious consequences, right then and there, for the slightest infraction of previously and clearly-stated rules.  Or something like that.   

 

The only people who handle her during a tantrum are DH and I.  

 

At the library, the two big kids and I take turns watching the littles while the others look for their books.  Usually the littles play on the computers or with the toys provided.  They'll also look through the shelves for books they want to take home.  "Watching" them usually involves making sure no one takes them out of the library and making sure they don't wander out of the children's area on their own (DD used to try to use the self-check out by herself). This is the first tantrum at the library, so it hasn't been an issue. 

[sbgrace]

OP, does she seem to be thinking when this is going on or is this an emotional reaction? In other words, is this a calculated/stubborn refusal or is she mostly acting/reacting without thinking in that moment. Is she actually out of control of her herself?

 

One of my sons falls into the reactor category. When's he's lost emotional control, he truly isn't thinking enough to make better choices. If it's that case, no amount of natural consequence is going to stop the next time. Instead, it's a matter of learning techniques to bring her down, and later teach her to bring herself down, when she's working up to that emotional state. In other words, intervene before she's lost control.

 

If she's doing this stuff with cognizant awareness and can control it, I'd handle it differently (ie natural and truly helpful things to keep her safe....might be that she's physically attached for me in these situations for a while, that she can't go for a while, etc.) This stuff won't help if this is an emotional regulation issue and she's not truly in control.

 

Whichever way you take, try to frame your actions that you're on the same team/want to help her learn to manage better so she can do these trips/want to keep her safe.

[Murphy101]

Nm

[Kathryn]

My autistic son had these frequent meltdowns until he started medication a few months ago. He truly could not help himself once he stepped over the edge. When it happened in public, I took him out to the car, strapped him into his seat, and waited while he raged. When he was calm, we'd either go back to our business or go home. When frequent violent tantrums are part of your life, you learn exactly how to restrain and carry to have a safe hold (safe in terms of not allowing escape or harm to you or them). A stroller would have been extremely dangerous for my DS. He would have overturned it easily.

[zoobie]

Does she have any sensory issues?

 

Does the iPod calm her down? I have an introvert, and sometimes when he's *done* with a public space, he will ask for my phone. Is it possible she's asking for the iPod as a latch ditch effort to hold her schtuff together in public? The refusal was the last straw, not because she was being a brat but because she's 4 and just couldn't take more?

 

The Explosive Child really helped with my intense oldest. With her, catching it before it happens is key. Your DD13 sounds very astute--if someone brought my intense kid to me with the about to lose it warning, I would've just with her left then. There was no reasoning to be done by that point [with my child at 4-6]. Sometimes she could pull it together in the car and we'd try again. It wasn't a teachable moment, for her anyway. *I* learned many things. ;) She simply had reached the end of her tiny 4-6 year old rope. Time and maturity helped, and I just had to wait.

[kitten18]

There are no indications that she has environmental allergies.

 

When she was an infant, she had allergies to dairy. I had to eliminate it from my diet while I was nursing because it caused her to severe reflux. She seemed to outgrow the allergy when she was around twelve months old and went about about a year to year and a half without any symptoms or problems of any kind. The tantrums started sometime after she turned two and have continued until now.

 

We recenly put her on a strict dairy free diet to see if there would be any difference. During that time she had two tantrums. We let her off the diet after two weeks for a friend's birthday at a restaurant. While eating dairy, she'll go anywhere from having no tantrums for 2 weeks to having them daily. So, dairy doesn't appear to be an issue. We don't eat soy at all due to allergies in two of us. No one in the family has any other allergies, and there are no indications that she has any....other than the behavior.

 

So, I don't know, but I don't think food is an issue.

My dd used to have meltdowns like that. They were not tantrums, they were full meltdowns. Once they started, it took over an hour for her to get control of herself.

 

We took her off gluten and she never had another meltdown after that.

[Incognito]

I had a bunch of advice typed up, then realized - the times that sort of tantrum has happened in our house I have been beside myself too and it's insane to live through.  We are a calm down THEN family - nothing happens until they calm down (95% of the time).  It helps, and works, but the type of fit you are talking about reminds me of what one of my kids does when he has dairy.  It's insane, out of character, and really hard to handle.  I do what I can to totally disengage and zone out, so I don't get sucked into the fury. 

 

 

[SKL]

It is hard to give advice on this because it sounds like this child has something going on beyond just being willful - and it could be so many different things.  Honestly, I have not ever had that kind of thing happen while out of the house (and I have a very strong-willed child).  A couple of times it happened at home, when a daughter was extremely stressed out.

 

Do you have overalls for her?  You could hang onto the overall straps to prevent her from running without actually holding her in your arms.

 

You might want to wait until your dd13 or dh is there to help you with the logistics of getting her into her car seat.

 

If she is being violent then use a blanket or coat to partially swaddle her so her arms are immobilized for the time it takes to get the buckles fastened.

 

I often recommend the book that helped me with my hard-headed preschooler:  Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline.  It may or may not speak to you.

 

And in the interest of full disclosure, I am an occasional spanker and that scene would have earned my kid a spanking (unless I was certain that it was triggered by something she could not help).  However, I know my kids, and I don't know yours.  Spankings are not appropriate for every child.

 

Good luck.

[Reflections]

I just wanted to share with you that almost the exact same thing happened to me about a year ago.  DD then 13 was watching then ds 2yo while I was searching for a book at the library.  When almost out of nowhere he went off.  I handed the library card to dd and had her and ds7 gather everything and check out.  Getting him out to the car was a nightmare.  While screaming at the very top of his lungs he kicked and punched and wiggled - and did this fantastic maneuver where he raised his arms over his head and slid right out of my arms - plopped down in the middle of the road - there was just nothing to grab on to - I couldn't stop his fall.  I got him to the car, - where he kicked and slapped trying to get away again.  I opened the door and he grabbed on to the frame with his hands or braced his feet - all the while screaming at the top of his lungs.  We started to draw a crowd.  I picked him up and kinda pinned his arms to his body and slid him into the car head first.  But unlike you, I could not get him into his seat - not without breaking something of his.  So I wound up engaging the child latch on the door, and locking him in.  He figured it out and moved to the front doors and tried to open them and I had to run from side to side to make sure he didn't get out - there was a lot of traffic.  When dd and ds8 showed up, they took up watch on one side, with me on the other.  We just waited it out - until a passerby asked me what was going on and wanted to talk to ds2.  He just screamed at her for the entire time she was standing there.  She then grew frustrated that nothing she said or offered him was working, so she turned to me and asked me what was wrong with him - very snidely she asked if he was on "the spectrum".  I only put up with her, cause really, there were people standing in groups watching us including a security guard for the library.  I kept waiting for the police to show up.  Finally, he got tired and sat in his seat.  It took about 30 to 40 minutes.  That was the last time he went with me anywhere for about 6 months.  

 

Honestly, I didn't try much.  I just didn't take him anywhere he might get over stimulated. I kept him home - or if we had to go anywhere, I limited it to about 15 minutes or 30 minutes if we were waiting on a co-op class to be over - but really 30 minutes was his outside limit.  I even had grandparents take the older two to classes or field trips.  My dh did the shopping.  It was a pain - sure - but far less painful than suffering through another tantrum like that.

 

If he was 4 and doing this (like your dd), I don't think that I would handle it any differently.  

 

If you are looking for advice mine would be to just keep her home.  If you have to go anyplace with her, severely limit the time she's there to minutes.  I understand the desire to show her that she's missing out by giving the others a reward but you may be inadvertently fostering resentment in her that then bubbles forward when she gets mad about something else and it causes a snowball effect.  

 

IMO, she needs some time to mature another little bit.  My ds3 now just needs to hear that there is an end time to the activity and if he asks to go home, he feels secure when I tell him that after X and Y, we'll go and then he is willing to wait it out.

 

:grouphug:  

[Joshin]

This sounds like more than a 4-year-old tantrum. My youngest as like this. The oddest think would set him off, and my normally agreeable boy would turn into a screaming, biting, running monster. One day it clicked that the behavior didn't occur if we got food into him pronto at the first sign of an impending fit. A small protein snack (jerky, almonds, anything) turns him back into a cheerful kid. If we waited too long, he'd refuse to eat, so the tantrum just got worse. Afterwards, he'd be very remorseful and upset with himself for losing control.

 

At 8, he's aware of it now. He started having a meltdown during math last week, which is normally his favorite subject. His teeth gritted, tears sprang to his eyes. Instead of a full on fit, he requested a piece of bacon. Within minutes, he was completely diffused and happily working again. He calls it a "diva" moment (from the Snickers commercials). He doesn't have any health issues, but he does have fast metabolism, is a big eater, is thin, and burns through food and energy in no time, so sometimes I think he just needs that extra protein to stay in control of his own emotions.

 

This may not be the case with your child, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case it helps.

[sbgrace]

I forgot about blood sugar! How long had it been since she ate? Some kids (my son I posted about earlier) are extremely sensitive to lowish blood sugar. My son would just completely loose it over little nothings. We finally figured it out when I realized that if I got anything into him, a bit of applesauce for example, when he was melting down he'd be suddenly ok. But it was terribly hard to get anything into him when he was in the middle of a fit. Once we figured it out, I made sure he ate every 2-2.5 hours when he was little. This meant we brought a snack nearly anywhere we went just in case we were gone too long. Eventually, we actually confirmed with a blood sugar monitor that his meltdowns really were tied to a certain low blood sugar range.

 

He can go longer without eating now than he could when he was your daughter's age, but still occasionally has problems if we've gone too long between meals.This is particularly true here now when he's overwhelmed otherwise, short on sleep, or similar. Because it's rarer now, it sometimes takes me a bit to put two and two together. But, just like when he was little, eating something fixes things.

 

 

 

 

[Parrothead]

Here is today's scenario:

 

We were at the library. I asked my 13 year old to keep an eye on the littles in the kids area while I went to hunt down a couple of books for school. I wasn't finding what I needed so I asked the reference librarian for help. Just as we were finishing up, I was heading back to the stacks when DD13 brought DD4 (that's age 4) to me, telling me that she was on the verge of a tantrum.

 

DD13 says that DD4 demanded to play on DD13's ipod. The problem occurred when DD13 wouldn't hand over her ipod.

 

DD4 claimed that sister would not let her get more books. I calmly explained that she would need to come with me while I got the book I needed and then I would help her get more books. She refused to come with me. I repeated my solution, and she still refused to come. I talked about making good choices and asked her if she was making good choices. She agreed that she was not making good choices. Still, she refused to come. I told her that if she didn't come with me, we would have to leave without her books. She refused and turned around to go back to the kids area on her own.

 

What would you do?

I'd have picked her up and carried her with me. At 4 my dd wasn't given the choice to not come when I told her to. If that resulted in a melt down we would have left immediately. I don't play temper tantrum.

[Katy]

I would do exactly what you did.  Then, hours later, when both of us were calm, I'd consequence her with a spanking.  I generally don't do spankings if a child is old enough to reason (about age 6), and never when angry.  But she was defiant in so many ways a spanking was called for.

[Soror]

I agree w/ others, I don't think this is a normal tantrum. I think there is something else going on here. I'd guess food as well . I don't think it is likely a discipline issue so much, although perhaps there are tweaks you can make to help. I'd not be going out much with this type of behavior.

 

We ended up coming home yesterday before I finished all my errands as I had 3 crying. They were all tired and 1 accidently hurt the other, there was nothing to do for it but go home. Generally w/ my kids, well past the first one when I didn't know as much, I was able to avoid most things by keeping an eye towards our routine, making sure they weren't tired or hungry and were told in advance what we were doing when. If we ended up out and I had a grumpy kid then I'd do as you did and get out as quickly as I could w/ as little drama as we could muster.

[gingersmom]

My son around 2-3 used to have meltdowns of the century. It certainly limited the places I would take him. 

 

I am not proud to say that we left the playground one time with me barely able to hold onto him, put him on the floor of the minivan and drove home with him lying on the floor. 

 

He was a supersized 2/3 year old and if he didn't want to get into car seat/stroller, good luck. 

 

Occupational therapy made a world of difference for him. I highly recommend going even for just an evaluation. 

 

:grouphug: